Daily review 09/09/2019

28 comments on “Daily review 09/09/2019 ”

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1. Fireblade 1

   9 September 2019 at 6:18 pm

   Simon Bridges sings Communist Party's praises in interview with Chinese news channel CGTN.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/simon-bridges-sings-communist-party-s-praises-in-interview-in-china.html
   • Rae 1.1

     9 September 2019 at 8:34 pm

     Came here to mention that myself, this seems all very hush hush.

     I hope he got a good price for the country at least
2. adam 2

   9 September 2019 at 6:30 pm

   This organisation is total FUBAR.

   Can the ministry fire all the management please and start afresh.

   It's never too late to dig out ideological extremist from government positions

   https://www.waateanews.com/waateanews/x_news/MjI2NDY/Opinion/The-latest-Oranga-Tamariki-outrage
   • Dukeofurl 2.1

     9 September 2019 at 7:28 pm

     Arent these kids arrested by the police for criminal activities who are later held in Oranga Tamarikis youth justice facilities… essentially prisons

     https://www.orangatamariki.govt.nz/youth-justice/residences/

     They would likely be 'well known to police' and frequent flyers in the Youth Courts
3. Pat 3

   9 September 2019 at 6:44 pm

   "Though the programme for a new party is essentially already written:

   • Increased spending on our crumbling national infrastructure
   • Root-and-branch reform of our health and education systems
   • A crash programme in state house construction to end homelessness, drive down rents and lower house prices
   • A “Green New Deal” to tackle Climate Change
   • Radical transparency and enhanced accountability within the state sector
   • A foreign policy which proclaims “Neither Washington nor Beijing!”

   The chances of a political party forming to seize the present moment are very low."

   https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/101583/chris-trotter-argues-causes-and-conditions-are-place-formation-new-mainstream

   And if it were what percentage would its support be?….I suspect that after approaching 4 decades of the cult of the individual not as large as many would hope or expect.
   • KJT 3.1

     9 September 2019 at 7:10 pm

     That political party already exists, the Greens.
     • Pat 3.1.1

       9 September 2019 at 7:18 pm

       "But, what about the Greens? Surely, theirs is the party that occupies the political and ideological space vacated by the Alliance? Certainly, there are many who would say so, but are they correct? Have the Green Party, and the Values Party before it, ever truly been the “watermelons” – green on the outside, red on the inside – their enemies claimed?

       The honest historical answer is: sometimes they have, sometimes they haven’t. It was the bitter struggle between its eco-capitalists and eco-socialists that tore Values apart, and very similar tensions have plagued the Green Party since its formation in 1990. The plain truth, however, is that while the eco-socialists have at times exercised considerable influence over, they have never dominated the Green Party. Whenever a choice has been offered – as it was in the contest between Sue Bradford and Metiria Turei – the eco-socialists lost."
       • weka 3.1.1.1

         9 September 2019 at 8:18 pm

         Wait, did Trotter imply that Turei is an eco-capitalist? Lol.

         Never has this eco-capitalist ascendancy been more evident than under the present co-leadership of James Shaw and Marama Davidson. It was, after all, Shaw who insisted that Labour and the Greens sign up to the quintessentially neoliberal Budget Responsibility Rules. And it was Marama Davidson who, only last week, sat beside Megan Woods and seconded Labour’s abandonment of the KiwiBuild project. Some rent-to-own and shared-ownership experiments are a poor substitute for the massive state-house construction programme which a genuine eco-socialist would have insisted upon.

         I didn't see the launch so maybe I am missing something, but how could a non-Minister in a junior party in a coalition insist on something that the leading party doesn't want? Was Davidson supposed to front up to the announcement and drop Labour in it? What about the influence of Peters?

         I really don't get this thing of blaming the Greens for what Labour (or NZF) won't do.

         Meanwhile, actual GP policy on state housing,

         Providing secure and affordable social housing

         The Green Party believes that central and local government must ensure that all New Zealanders have adequate housing. Social housing, which includes state housing, local government housing, and community sector housing, can provide affordable rental accommodation to large numbers of people. The level of social housing falls far short of meeting the current need. The Green Party will:

         1.Ensure that the Housing New Zealand Corporation has resources to increase its rate of acquisition and building of state houses, as well as maintaining and upgrading existing houses.

         (and speaking of driving down rents and mortgages, before the last election the Greens said they wanted to drop house prices. Afaik they're the only ones)

         One could then ask, if that is the GP policy, why didn't the Greens force Labour (insist) to include that? I'd really like too know how that would work.

         I know you like Trotter's work Pat, but this is just daft from such a seasoned political commenter as Trotter.

         It also irks to see his capitalist/socialist framing of the Greens when he's spent many years dissing the Greens instead of supporting them as the only party with clear left wing policies. If he wanted them to be more ecosocialist, then he could have supported them when they were. I don't know what his problem with the Greens is, but this idea that we need a left wing party but can never have one is pretty odd.
         • Pat 3.1.1.1.1

           9 September 2019 at 8:21 pm

           have you read the piece?….and my opinion of Mr Trotters work spans a wide range.
           • weka 3.1.1.1.1.1

             9 September 2019 at 9:13 pm

             I have read it. I just gave an analysis of the bits about the GP. His summation of NZ politics generally seems reasonable, but my critique stands, that lefties like himself were agin the Greens all that time, so they can hardly turn around now and say there was no viable alternative to the two neolib party hegemony. There has been, he just wasn't paying heed.

             I’d still love to know how the Greens could insist that Labour adopt their policies.
             • Pat …

               9 September 2019 at 9:43 pm

               If you look at the 'programme' quoted in my first post you may recognise what is effectively Green Party policy currently and was so for the previous election….and you may also recognise how much of that policy has been implemented.

               His piece however is broader than that and his antipathy for the Greens is only incidental to that thrust and it is that which I see as relevant….

               "On neither the Left nor the Right are there the individuals or the institutions ready to launch and fund such a challenge to the status quo. For the best part of a generation there has been no serious debate over the core content and direction of New Zealand economic policy. Young people, in particular, find it difficult to frame even the questions necessary to challenge what they have been taught to regard as “common sense”.

               Perversely, MMP – intended to prevent sudden, massive and unmandated change – has locked in place the very neoliberal revolution its adoption sought to roll-back. What’s more, MMP has excused both the Labour and National Parties from making room for rebels. In this country we will not see the sudden emergence of ageing keepers of the Keynesian flame like Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn; nor the “authorised radicalism” made possible when self-proclaimed socialists and revolutionaries attract the mass support of younger voters by setting up shop within the reassuring structures of the existing party system."

               .,,,and is he wrong? Id suggest not….indeed it echoes my own frustration at a lack of an alternative offered, an alternative that can appeal to a broad enough segment of the electorate to enable enactment….6% dosnt achieve that.

               That CT is a product of his time ( an unfashionable old school social democrat ) dosnt diminish his ability to analyse NZs political scene…something hes been involved in since he was a student ( something to be avoided especially at such tender years) and IMO he views everything through that lens….its not an uncommon view and not necessarily unwarranted when the alternatives are examined.

               They are views formed by (albeit secondhand) experience.
               • weka …

                 9 September 2019 at 10:55 pm

                 the hope for a NZ Sanders or Corbyn is something I hear from the traditional left, and while I think NZ is stuck in a neoliberal hell, I just find it really odd that lefties who want a left wing party don't vote Green given the Greens have those policies. I understand the issues of not being a good cultural fit, but it still doesn't make much sense to me (kind of like people cutting off their nose to spite their face). So I can't take Trotter's analysis without considering the Greens because they've been key in politics in the time he is talking about.

                 Highest the Greens ever polled was 15% after Turei stood up for beneficiaries. What happened next was a complex set of dynamics that are hard to separate out, but I think Trotter is overstating the case that NZ just won't go there.
                 • Pat …

                   9 September 2019 at 11:08 pm

                   his 'overstated case' is supported by 7 general election results…the only polls that matter
                   • weka …

                     9 September 2019 at 11:17 pm

                     not really. That doesn't take into account Dirty Politics, or Peters fucking with MMP. It makes it sounds like an even playing field with transparency and NZers made a choice based on that. I just don't think that is true.
                 • Pat …

                   9 September 2019 at 11:23 pm

                   the results are the results….there will always be 'reasons', and they are there to be overcome.

                   Or not

                   and if we look around the world we see a multitude of examples of what 'not' looks like, none of them appear appealing from where im sitting.
                   • weka …

                     9 September 2019 at 11:40 pm

                     I think it would really help in NZ to stop blaming the Greens for things out of their control (eg Labour's housing policy). Because even if the Greens are too centre left now, their policies are still good, and if they had more MPs they're be normalising those policies and shifting the Overton Window. And then either they'd move more left, or there would be space for another left wing party.

                     Not the only thing that needs to happen by any means, but it seems a no brainer.
                 • Pat …

                   10 September 2019 at 12:03 am

                   Big picture joined up thinking should be the focus….vision with a plan….something people can appreciate without too much effort/time…but something that can be explained in detail when needed.

                   Voters have lost trust and who can blame them…their representatives dont understand their jobs themselves…and thats across the board.
                   • weka …

                     10 September 2019 at 12:16 am

                     I don't disagree but I'm more about the pragmatics and working with what we have got.

                     Tell me more about the big picture joined up thinking, or the way you see that.
                 • Pat …

                   10 September 2019 at 6:14 pm

                   "Tell me more about the big picture joined up thinking, or the way you see that."

                   Lol…fear you must think im some sort of superhuman…Im not about to write a comprehensive policy platform in a day with no resources…I'll leave that to the Labour Party..but would suggest that a one day wonder like that was what led to "Kiwibuild"…and we know how that played out.
                   • weka …

                     10 September 2019 at 6:19 pm

                     No I thought you might just have had some interesting ideas on what such a big picture might look like. I don't need a detailed plan, but your thoughts on what that is.
                   • Pat …

                     10 September 2019 at 6:36 pm

                     Like the saying says..'I dont know much about art, but i know what i like'

                     The platform outlined in CT piece is a good start but it needs fleshing out. The aspiration needs a pathway. The policy re reducing ag emissions needs to have a hard number on herd size/ location and a timeframe and that needs to be linked to reforestation, so a comprehensive land use plan with hard targets (based on best practice for location) and that leads to regional development and employment and training, gov dept location…a whole host of possibilities.

                     Same with housing..wheres the study determining the locations that require additional housing?and what type should that housing be?…how can you determine how that is to be achieved without identifying the local need?…and that then leads to what expertise/training is needed?..what time frames?…what materials.?..can we source locally?..if not why not?..can we work around that?

                     The problems are manifold…but so are the opportunities to improve so much…and the wankers have wasted 11 years
4. ScottGN 4

   9 September 2019 at 7:08 pm

   So the PM was forced to front up again today, using her political capital to clean up after the useless fucktards at Labour Party HQ. If, as seems likely, they lied to her about the nature of the incidents that have occurred then Haworth should go, sooner rather than later.
   • Herodotus 4.1

     9 September 2019 at 8:39 pm

     Perhaps our PM should listen to this interview from mid last year.

     "I think now with things like #MeToo of course harassment in the workplace, we already have the legislative framework to say that is not okay, but do we have the environment where people don’t perpetuate that kind of inappropriate behaviour, in the first place, and an environment within our workplaces where people feel safe to speak."

     https://thespinoff.co.nz/partner/are-we-there-yet/14-07-2018/we-need-to-say-ok-what-next-jacinda-ardern-on-the-impact-of-metoo/
     • Dukeofurl 4.1.1

       10 September 2019 at 7:47 am

       Wasnt this assault at a private home , not at work ?
       • Anne 4.1.1.1

         10 September 2019 at 6:32 pm

         Yes.
       • Brigid 4.1.1.2

         10 September 2019 at 6:40 pm

         Where the victim had been invited to, to deal with Labour Party business. It wasn't a social call.
   • Jimmy 4.2

     9 September 2019 at 11:43 pm

     Jacinda said she was not happy with the way its been handled….translation, not happy with Nigel Haworth who will be the fall guy in my opinion and deserves to go if the reports about him are true. I think his position has become untenable.
5. Stuart Munro. 5

   9 September 2019 at 10:35 pm

   A policy pursued on the same grounds as the 1080 campaign is beginning to raise doubts:

   bbc link

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