Daily Review 12/10/2017

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, October 12th, 2017 - 118 comments
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Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

118 comments on “Daily Review 12/10/2017”

  1. tracey 1

    I see Bryce Edwards on behalf of the Herald has published a direct plea to the NZF Board. Hosking reckons… Farrar reckons… Mapp reckons… a seeming list of right wingers with a vested interest personally or professionally in a Nat/NZF Govt… clearly designed to warn/scare NZF Board

    • weka 1.1

      got a link?

      • Ed 1.1.1

        Here is the link.
        I agree with Tracey.
        Bryce Edwards seems to have copied and pasted the viewers of every right wing propagandist in the article. Shameful for someone who tries to pretend he is independent.

        And the Herald editor has added this title.

        ‘Political Roundup: Signs of a National-NZ First government’

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11932157

        • tracey 1.1.1.1

          Yup. There is no attempt at balance either in the headline or the content.

          Did Bryce go to TDB, The Standard? Nah.

          • Ed 1.1.1.1.1

            Wonder how much Bryce depends on the Herald’s pay?

            • Smellpir 1.1.1.1.1.1

              I think that if you read the first paragraph carefully, you’ll see that he is going to do the ‘Signs of a Labour/NZ First Government’ column tomorrow:

              “The day has arrived for Winston Peters and New Zealand First to decide which major party to put into power – even if the announcement won’t actually be made today. It really could go either way, but below are ten items that suggest Peters will be inclined to choose National. A follow-up column will look at signs of a Labour-NZ government.”

              Nevertheless, his need to bat for both teams this election HAS been annoying.

              • Ed

                Thanks for spotting.

                I agree about Edwards.
                It’s like he’d write 10 reasons against Climate Change and 10 reasons for it…

                ‘If you don’t stand for something you will fall for anything.’

                Peter Marshall

                • Smellpir

                  Agreed!
                  ‘Bothsiderism’ is what got the US media into so much trouble re: Trump.
                  Bryce has a chronic case of bothsiderism, and I’ll be reading his column tomorrow to see how ‘evenhanded’ he manages to be.

                  • Ed

                    Yes, Bryce will coming with reasons for increasing dairy farming next.

                    • Smellpir

                      Now, that is a challenge! Let me see:

                      1) boost GDP
                      2) the cows look pretty…?
                      3) a disproportionate number of All Blacks are bred by dairy farmers…?
                      4) nope, nothing else is coming to mind…

                • Grey Area

                  *gulp*

                  I always thought it was John Mellencamp:

                  “But I know
                  You’ve got to stand for something
                  Or you’re gonna fall for anything
                  You’ve gotta stand right up for somethin’
                  Or you’re gonna fall for anything”

              • weka

                Tomorrow, lol.

              • james

                “I think that if you read the first paragraph carefully, you’ll see that he is going to do the ‘Signs of a Labour/NZ First Government’ column tomorrow”

                Shows how well come people read. Too busy jumping to conclusions and running conspiracy lines.

                • tracey

                  You misquoted

                  He actually wrote

                  “A follow-up column will look at signs of a Labour-NZ government. ”

                  Can you post the link.

                  • james

                    Yes – safe to see that was a typo – and was going to be
                    “Signs of a Labour-NZ First government”

                    there was a typo in the article.

              • tracey

                Have searched and cannot find the followup yet.

                Possibly the followup was an afterthought or a freudian slip?

                “A follow-up column will look at signs of a Labour-NZ government.”

        • weka 1.1.1.2

          Wow, that’s even worse than I was expecting.

        • Philj 1.1.1.3

          Bryce has become more temperate in his analyses the more exposure he has in the MSM. A pity, but understandable. He lost some credibility ( in the MSM) when he openly declared his left leaning bias. He has clearly learned “to get along you have to play along” The Headline is misleading and mischievous.

          Cheers and

    • chris73 1.2

      I’m sorry for you (and the rest) but its most likely going to be some form of National/NZFirst and the best the left can hope for is Lab/NZFirst and a severely neutered Greens

      National can offer more than Lab/Greens can, National can offer NZFirst the ease of dealing with only one party, National can offer NZFirst an electorate seat, the seats where NZFirst did best are rural and provincial (https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/10/best_and_worst_seats_for_nz_first.html) so a natural affiliation with National is already there and by sheer numbers more people voted for National than Labour/Green

      Winston wanted a change of government and a National/NZFirst government would certainly be different

      The offer of the bet is still open if you’re still keen Mickey

      • Ed 1.2.1

        But you are a National fan boy so you would say that, wouldn’t you?

        • chris73 1.2.1.1

          Well yes but if you look at the link provided it backs up what I’m saying and that is NZFirst is most popular in rural and provincial North Island, that National could step away in Northland and gift a seat to NZFirst ala Epsom, its easier to deal with one party than it is two parties and not forgetting the knighthood he’d also recieve

          So yes it is just something I “reckon” but its a “reckon” that I reckon will play out…of course if I’m wrong I’ll still be on here so everyone can say how wrong I was

          • Ed 1.2.1.1.1

            How are we going to solve the crises that face us all?
            Le’t start with climate change.

            As Rachel Stewart says ‘Climate change is here. The race between human survival and the melting ice sheets is on. With it, urgency is being replaced by a kind of shrugging acceptance that the tipping point has been reached. Now, we wait.
            The storms will be more frequent and deadly; the diseases will come thick and fast; the crops will fail and, if humans are still standing at the end of that, the heat will shut our bodies down and we will die.
            Oh, and if technology were to save us, where is it? My guess? It doesn’t exist in either a form or a time frame to meaningfully change anything.

            Depressed yet? You should be. And when you’re bored with that, maybe stop blaming others for their point of view, and start blaming the real culprits. Picking off fundamentally decent – and basically planetarily powerless – others is a waste of your time. Anger, sadness and fear is best expressed by doing, rather than talking into a vacuum (which, ironically, I’m likely doing here).

            The culprits? Oil companies, industrial agriculture, the 1 per cent, over-fishing, neoliberalism, capitalism, Monsanto, Trump, the “free” market (an oxymoron if ever there was one). You know who they are.

            Get off the cyber treadmill of judgment and virtue signalling, and dismount your fat donkey and make a change in the world. Maybe there’s still time?’

            • chris73 1.2.1.1.1.1

              So you’re saying the Greens should untie themselves from Labour to make changes, well I agree with you on that

              • Ed

                No I was asking you how we solve Climate Change.

                • chris73

                  Not sure what you mean by solving it, the climate has always changed and it always will change.

                  • Ed

                    How we solve climate change as caused by industrial capitalism.
                    I am assuming you read Rachel Stewart’s piece.

                    If not you could watch this.

                  • Robert Guyton

                    That’s awfully weak from you, chris73. You know when you see “climate change” it means ” destructive man-made-climate-change”, don’t you? If not, you’re of no use in the discussion; if you do know that and are pretending not to understand, you should be ashamed of yourself.

                    • chris73

                      Its a pointless question, if I knew the answer I’d be away doing it as I’m guessing anyone else would be as well

          • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.2

            its easier to deal with one party than it is two parties and not forgetting the knighthood he’d also recieve

            Wow, you’re free with the give-aways aren’t you.

      • KJT 1.2.2

        Typical Nat. Believes someone will always go for “what’s in it for them”.
        That’s is why they are so confused by the Greens. Members decide policy, so Green politicians cannot be bribed.

        • chris73 1.2.2.1

          Whats in it for Winston is that instead of having to go through two sets of negotiations to get something through he only has to negotiate with one which means he has more power to enact the changes he campaigned on

          But hey at least the Greens, and their supporters, get to feel pure and superior so theres that I suppose

          • KJT 1.2.2.1.1

            Greens understand that there is no point in power, if they become an insipid pale Green imitation of Labour and National.

      • BM 1.2.3

        He’ll also get shunted into the background if he goes Labour/Greens, it’s going to be Jacinda, Jacinda Jacinda, Peters will be as impotent as a 72-year-old man who still likes to drink and smoke excessively.

        All this is pointless speculation through Skinny, the man at the centre of all the action, Peters personal confident and seer has said this all a sham, Peters made his mind up and he’s going Labour/Green this whole charade is just a fuck you to National and the people of NZ.

        https://thestandard.org.nz/every-body-wants-to-rule-the-world/#comment-1399200

        • Ed 1.2.3.1

          How are we going to solve the problem of Climate Change?

          • chris73 1.2.3.1.1

            Well it’d be a good start if the Greens ever thought about being in power so they could enact some policies

          • BM 1.2.3.1.2

            Massive big terraforming machines powered by fusion operating at the north and south poles

            • Ed 1.2.3.1.2.1

              Proven technology BM, not stuff from science fiction.

              • BM

                Ok, No idea then.

                Still, think technology will save our arses though, so just relax and party on Ed! it’s all going to work out in the end.

                • weka

                  Hey, let’s gamble the earth on BM’s reckons!

                • One of the answers to the Fermi Paradox is that all previous civilisations that could have reached the stars wiped themselves out with their technology before they were mature enough to understand the downsides of the technology.

                  Mankind seems to be on this path due idiots like you.

                • Ed

                  I’m sure your children and grandchildren will thank you for gambling their future away so recklessly.

        • chris73 1.2.3.2

          Well if Skinny says it then it must be true 🙂

        • Anne 1.2.3.3

          He’ll also get shunted into the background if he goes Labour/Greens,…

          He’ll not only get shunted into the background if he goes with National, but he and his party will get shunted out of parliament. Key’s “top drawer” will have nothing on what they have in store for him the day he falls foul with them over some shitty decision.

          If he goes with National… so much for all the “we will make our choice based on what is best for NZ” crap we have had to endure in recent days.

          If he goes with Labour I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt but won’t be holding my breath.

          • BM 1.2.3.3.1

            You do forget National is looking for a settled and stable coalition partner, they were hoping Act would be that but it just hasn’t panned out.

            It’s in both Nationals and NZ Firsts best interest to make this work.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.2.3.3.1.1

              You do forget National is looking for a settled and stable coalition partner

              I suspect that would be difficult considering how National eats its partners.

            • KJT 1.2.3.3.1.2

              ACT got into Parliament just long enough to convince almost everyone that they are loony tunes.
              Just like 84, 87 Labour, their predecessors. Without the nudge, nudge, wink, wink, in Epsom their vote would be below 0.02%

            • tracey 1.2.3.3.1.3

              I thought it was in Greens interest and NZs to work with Nats.

      • Robert Guyton 1.2.4

        Thanks for being so kind and thoughtful, chris73.

      • I’m sorry for you (and the rest) but its most likely going to be some form of National/NZFirst and the best the left can hope for is Lab/NZFirst and a severely neutered Greens

        I feel sorry for you because you’re so full of shit from trying to defend a hopeless ideological position.

        National can offer more than Lab/Greens can,

        No they can’t – not without breaking National and destroying NZ1st.

        Winston wanted a change of government and a National/NZFirst government would certainly be different

        That’s just it – it wouldn’t be. Or, to be more precise, it would be the same as the 1996 National/NZ1st government and I don’t think anyone but especially NZ1st want a repeat of that.

      • millsy 1.2.6

        I hate to say it Christopher, but you are right. Winston will go with National.

    • mickysavage 1.3

      He used to reference the standard all the time but does so quite rarely now even though our stats are second only to Kiwiblog.

    • Wayne 1.4

      I am pretty sure Bryce Edwards does not write his columns to order. In any event he indicated he was going to do the same thing for the Labour option.
      As far as I can see he was just expressing his opinion.
      Incidentally I thought Chloe Swarbrick and Marama Davidson turning up at the demo was a rather good illustration of the risk I was alluding to. I would have thought the sensitivity of negotiations (3 NZF MP’s are ex Regular Force Army officers) would have given them pause for thought before they did that.

      • Anne 1.4.1

        So, all those young people who protested against the Vietnam War were dangerous subversives eh Wayne? All those young people who protested against the Springbok Tour were unwashed hippies and gangsters? All those young people who protested against the proliferation of nuclear weapons were Commie loving losers? Funny thing… all those young people were proven to be right on every count Wayne. Time may well prove these young people are right too.

        Its the sort of thing intelligent, thinking young people do because they still have their lives ahead of them and they want to make the world a better place. Maybe they go too far sometimes but that’s the nature of being young and passionate. And hang it all, one of those young people back in the 60s and 70s ended up as prime minister and went on to became one of the most powerful and admired women on the international stage.

        • millsy 1.4.1.1

          It would seem so.

          No one is more Tory than Dr Wayne Mapp. Psychartrist, and ex-defence minister. He probably shits blue 🙂

        • Wayne 1.4.1.2

          She is an MP whose party is in the middle of sensitive coalition negotiations.
          I would have thought it obvious that will have an effect on the things you can do.
          It was not a general comment about demonstrating generally.
          However if that is what the Greens want to do, well I guess they can.

          • KJT 1.4.1.2.1

            I can see why someone sticking to their principles baffles you. Wayne!

          • tracey 1.4.1.2.2

            You think her Party didnt know she was going to be there? You think NZF doesnt know there are anti war people in Greens? You really do struggle to understand anyone who does not behave as you do or doesnt see the world as you do.

      • WILD KATIPO 1.4.2

        Chloe and Marama don’t stand on ceremony and pretentiousness like some old staid farts in the National party.

        They see a need , – they answer to it.

        Get bloody real ‘Wayne ‘ and stop being a wanker.

        BTW ; enjoyed your article in the NZ Herald ,.. it was interesting and informative.

      • I would have thought the sensitivity of negotiations (3 NZF MP’s are ex Regular Force Army officers) would have given them pause for thought before they did that.

        Hopefully they’ll understand that producing and buying weapons for profit is a bad idea and they’ll do something about it.

        • Wayne 1.4.3.1

          I guess you are being ironic, given that Ron Mark, for instance, would not meet any reasonable definition of being a pacifist.

          In any event all the responses to my post affirm the wide gulf between Green thinking and NZF thinking. Your defences of Chloe’s and Marama’s actions show that they are likely to do exactly what happened in 2002 with the Alliance. It is also zero awareness of coalition negotiations, because the immediacy of direct action and virtue signalling trumps all. In 2002 most of the Alliance MP’s, including Ministers, walked away from government over Afghanistan. That was one of the main reasons for an early election in 2002.

          So Chloe and Marama have nicely highlighted a real risk facing a left coalition which includes the Greens, which Bryce Edwards noted as the very first risk.

          I am also pretty sure NZF fully understands the need for a defence force that has effective combat capabilities. They will have zero agreement with the Greens on this issue.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.4.3.1.1

            I guess you are being ironic, given that Ron Mark, for instance, would not meet any reasonable definition of being a pacifist.

            Don’t have to be a pacifist to realise that production and selling of weapons for a profit is bad for society and that a government should produce all their own weapons from the countries R&D and resources.

            So Chloe and Marama have nicely highlighted a real risk facing a left coalition which includes the Greens, which Bryce Edwards noted as the very first risk.

            Because having a political party that holds to solid principles is a real risk – to those without any.

            I am also pretty sure NZF fully understands the need for a defence force that has effective combat capabilities. They will have zero agreement with the Greens on this issue.

            And there you go spouting more ignorant BS and scaremongering.

            Defence and Peacekeeping Policy

            Key Principles

            ** Priority must be given to non-violent means of resolving conflict.
            ** When armed forces are deployed this must be sanctioned by the people of Aotearoa/New Zealand.
            ** The New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) should be capable of performing across a range of operations: from peacekeeping, disaster relief and resource protection through to defensive combat operations
            ** The NZDF must not maintain or use weapons that create long lasting risks to civilian populations and/or the environment
            ** The work carried out by the armed service personnel, and the sacrifices they are required to make must be recognised and respected
            ** Enlistment in the armed forces must be on a voluntary basis

            I’m pretty sure that NZ1st and the Greens can come to some agreement to meet all of those.

            • tracey 1.4.3.1.1.1

              Not on Wayne’s watch.

              It is clear Wayne has found himself a new trough writing articles and going on tv with his reckons. Sadly it means his macho patriarchal and the “world is for everyone how it is for him” views will get more oxygen…

      • left_forward 1.4.4

        So you think that cowtowing to arms dealers in order to win political power is a more honourable activity for our politicians?

      • tracey 1.4.5

        Mainly he was expressing your opinion, and farrars etc.

        Incidentally two MPs standing up for what their supporters believe is the point of representation. What did you march for Wayne, pre and post politics?

        Hopefully the 3 ex force NZF MPs have a better understanding of the right to freedom expression our forces fight for than you do.

  2. John Shears 2

    I agree also, Edwards is just another Herald RW Ninja commentator like Hoskings etc etc etc they even keep throwing Prebble into the mix.

    • Ed 2.1

      Prebble

      and…..

      Hide
      Roy
      Seymour
      Franks

      The number of ACT voices in the media is totally out of proportion to its voter base.
      It is the ‘party’ of the 0.5 %.

      However, its presence in the corporate media is in proportion to its wealth.
      That 0.5 % own about 50% of New Zealand.

      Just another reason to take control of the airwaves and establish a democratic grassroots media.

  3. ianmac 3

    Isn’t Jacinda’s security man the greatest? One look from him and I would confess immediately even having done nothing wrong.

  4. joe90 4

    My week so far.

  5. mauī 5

    New Zealand First hold music. Warning 80’s synths follow

    • CoroDale 5.1

      Lovers of Love, f#!k it! It’s time to join the Rugby Voluntary Fire Brigade, or whatever the f the gnats do to score points. If they have that much money backing, and so little talent. It’s time, from the inside, I say. Hey any backing for a James and Bond, on say $10,000pa? !-p

  6. Whispering Kate 6

    Sorry folks but I have a sinking feeling the old bugger will be getting between the sheets with National. Winnie was always a dodgy fella, attention seeking, full of himself and loving playing to the gallery. My partner was going to vote for him and thank the lord he saw the stupidity of his ways and gave him the slip. He may say he is NZ First but I feel it in my bones that he is going over to the dark side and we will have another 3 years of misery.

    I shall be quite happy to apologise and say I made a big mistake if it goes the other way. Whatever happens the major party will have a hell of a job keeping him in check. He is an impossible person to get on with and there will be nothing but tears for the other major party whoever has the misfortune to accept him on board.

    • Hang in there Kate !

      There’s life in the old ‘ bugger’ yet and he might just give everyone here a pleasant suprise!

      Hehe… ‘ Whatever happens the major party will have a hell of a job keeping him in check ” … ya reckon he’s a naughty toddler that needs a leash …L0L !

  7. RedLogix 7

    An excellent read on the art of effective politics from a very personal perspective:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11932458

    • Anne 7.1

      Thank-you for that Redlogix. An inspiring woman. Perhaps the best words are the last words:

      … from Margaret Mead. She is reported to have said: “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”

      So very true.

  8. This article from Gordon Campbell got posted up earlier. I want to address this part:

    This year, the bigger news on the recycling front has been the decision that China announced a few months ago to end its role in the recycling of many categories of “foreign garbage” (mainly plastic and mixed paper waste) as of January 1, 2018.

    I haven’t seen anything else about that but it will affect us.

    As for here… roughly speaking, and as this article indicates, New Zealand has a high level of local recycling of glass, and about a 50% capacity in recycling some forms of plastic. The rest of our plastic waste and all of our paper and card waste gets sold and shipped to Asia, primarily to China –where it has left in its wake some serious environmental problems related to unsafe forms of disposal.

    Which means that the cost of importing shit from China (“As Bloomberg News concluded: “Foreign garbage is really just China’s recycling coming home.””) is about to get far more expensive as we start having to deal with the rubbish that we’ve taken to ignoring.

    • China’s recycling foreign garbage ?

      Well , – huh !, – that’s a slap in the face to our ‘Free Trade Deal ‘ with them , isn’t it …!

      No wonder we don’t get to buy land and houses over there !

      So that’s what they really think of us !

      ‘ Foreign garbage ‘ , indeed !

    • ianmac 8.2

      Pleased today to see a bin at the Supermarket for soft plastic, plastic shopping bags, biscuit wrapping, all to be recycled. Great progress?

    • RedLogix 8.3

      Bloomberg nails it.

      The Europeans have pioneered the idea that all manufacturing must encompass the entire life cycle of ALL materials goods. Nothing gets sent to waste; if you made it, then at the end of it’s useful life, then you have to take it back and re-use all of it in some manner.

      This needs to become a global rule.

    • So we’ve been using the out of sight out of mind approach and that will have to change. Good. To often our type of society just pretends and expects every other single country to carry our shit. Time to really become self sufficient instead of bullshitting ourselves and everyone else kiwis.

  9. That diplomatic protection squad guys beard is awesome – its iconic !

    Like this guy !

    Cry, Cry, Cry – Johnny Cash – YouTube

    • chris73 9.1

      I have a fondness for this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH7no9FCDoQ

      • WILD KATIPO 9.1.1

        Yes , … it speaks of a people taking a pride in their nation , – and you cant fault that. And if there’s one thing to admire about the common American people its pride in their way of life. And its not a bad way at all , though it has received far too much bad PR and criticism with those with an agenda.

        Its always sad when global media works towards an agenda bought and paid for by those who originate that agenda , – to the detriment of the common people of all lands.

        George Soros and his ilk has much to answer for.

  10. joe90 10

    Live right now.

    Up early? Tune in at 5:15am ET to watch as food, fuel & supplies are launched from Earth to @Space_Station: https://t.co/mzKW5uV4hS pic.twitter.com/pV2ZBnJrjF— NASA (@NASA) October 12, 2017

    https://twitter.com/NASA/status/918393557068713984

  11. Rowley Birkin QC – At his best! – YouTube
    Video for rowley birkin qc▶ 1:31

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