It’s been a pretty average day on the Standard and, as usual, the Trump arguments are at the centre of it.
This guy’s treatment of the media makes Winston Peters look like a saint. He just passed a massive tax relief package for the rich. He destroyed the first green shoots of public health care in the US since forever. He has laid waste to solutions in Israel/Palestine. He’s needlessly inflaming the situation on the Korean peninsula. He’s unashamedly sexist and racist, and that’s a fact. And there’s way more.
All these things should be anathema to people of the socially responsible left yet some here, authors included, have defended him today by attacking his critics.
I’m ashamed to be a part of this community right now.
Yeah. There’re reason why Trumo won, most Americans understand he’s a racist bigot because America is the home of racist bigots, I mean please don’t kid us if your trying to all of a sudden discover that America only became the second most racist bigoted country behind Europ. I mean congratulation for figuring out the secrete that only you and a select group of know all’s gatekeep. I mean wow, what a revelation.
And please don’t talk about the U.S health system, there’s a reason why the U.S health system is the most expensive in the world. Because Obama care is a dog, which is two steps removed from Nixons Medicare bill…
I just had to clear a few things up because you’ve got no argument. You muppets are just given these memes that you shit post with out even checking to see what the memes all about.
[no idea what the point of that comment is, but it’s not the first time I’ve seen you having a go at someone using mental health slurs. Just stop. If I see it again I will ban – weka]
Maybe you just piss me off which makes me unimpressed. And then I’m like role on BM. Because you online charlatan educators have no morals. People want to live a decent life with out judgment and that means a decent wage. But if they listen to people like you BM, well then they may aswell seek advice about living arrangements from John Key… What a joke.
I haven’t been reading Sam’s comments. The one above doesn’t seem particularly outside of what happens on TS, or what you do. If you have a problem with a comment, flag a moderator and point to specific things that are in breach of the Policy or otherwise causing a problem. Randomly suggesting that someone should be moderated doesn’t count. Nor does your personal opinion about behaviour being odd, you have to demonstrate something.
Hi Weka. The rules say no “pointless personal attacks”. From one thread today:
Sam 12.2.1
18 January 2018 at 3:23 pm
Hold it. Every one look at BM becoming a stable genius. How amazing it is the house prices will go up. Your a real fucking genius you know that BM… Amazing…
Sam 12.2.2.1.1.1
18 January 2018 at 3:56 pm
Nah. It’s like BM is reading from a script or something… Like he’s given these messages to say with out even understanding the words that are coming of his keyboard and when ever he goes off script he just comes across as a Nigerian con artist. He’s worthless.
Sam 12.2.2.2.2.1
18 January 2018 at 3:51 pm
We’ve already had BMs hysteria over drug testing state houses, and not even been unfit for habitation. Now BMs so thick in the head he dosnt even understand that he’s pushing a Ponzi scam. He’s a totally con.
Sam
18 January 2018 at 4:48 pm
If you think all rentals and tenants are the same then you’re insane… Because when BM assumes that all tenants and rentals are the same it’s actually mathematically impossible for BM to derive a supply curve…
I mean… Fuck me… This is why I don’t educate flaky virtue signallers.
Calling someone “a real fucking genius”, “worthless”, “thick in the head”, “totally con,” and “insane” sound like pointless personal attacks to me.
(As do referring to other posters as “normies” and “muppets”).
BM is a factory for propaganda. Just like commercials are literally the science of mind control. It sounds extremely ridiculous but it is something that is studied extensively. Propaganda is weird because you really don’t associate the harmless everyday thing as an EVIL tool.
Pepe the Frog, Kekistan, Trickle down effect, slut shaming, welfare shaming, minority shaming, memes dedicated to ridicule to whoever uses them. Now I hear about them being considered as white supremacist symbols? I mean, they are, and verifiably so, just from a casual glance through any of the Facebook/anime groups and white supremacist rallies. It’s stupid, and nobody will dispute that, but the Alt-right has made those into rallying symbols for their racist ideologies. You just have to view any of Kiwiblog or Whale oil to understand this kiwi style.
So now I’m like, have you got a problem with me you need to sort out? You’ll notice a huge difference in intellectual defence, between me and others. Others think they’re adults but really the right whinge like babies the most. That’s all they are, stuck with out a clue, that’s another feature of right wing ideology… The humble question mark?
How I answer those questions are two fold. First I tell them how they’re screwing up, then I tell them how not to screw up.
And there’s a third. After the two step process then I just casually not give a fuck.
Complaining that BM is being unfairly trolled is like whining that nobody likes your sweet new Buddhist Manji tattoo. It may have been perfectly innocent once upon a time, but now is not that time.
[“And there’s a third. After the two step process then I just casually not give a fuck.” What you will find is that once a moderator gets involved, your own views on how things should be become much less important. I will be looking at whether your style of commenting here is causing problems for the site. You might not give a fuck, I do, in part because I care about the community, but also because people who flame cause more work for moderators and in the end their political debate and action isn’t usually worth that. – weka]
BM and I have actually been around the supply and demand merry go round. I’m actually surprised no one has the intellectually capacity or educational background to spot these charlatans. BM is like the uncle that no one suspects shouldn’t be allowed with kids alone… And every one here is like. Oh no it’s fine…
[that’s nice for you, but I still don’t know what you are on about and in the absence of a clear acknowledgement of the moderation note and offering clear communication, I’m going to give you an educational ban for wasting my moderator time. I suggest reading the Policy and asking about anything you are not clear about. 3 days, back on Monday – weka]
Grey, thanks. If you want me to look at a moderator you have to put links (the bit in the Policy about not wasting moderator time is there to reduce the amount of time moderators spend on moderating. The time needed to follow patterns of behaviour is significant, so if commenters want something addressed it’s way more likely to happen if you do the leg work for me. In the time it would take for me to find those quotes in context I could put up a post).
Calling someone “a real fucking genius”, “worthless”, “thick in the head”, “totally con,” and “insane” sound like pointless personal attacks to me.
It depends. If someone is making a political point they can often (not always) get away with being rude. Pointless abuse would be attacking someone with no political content in a comment. What I would be looking at is whether he is winding people up and that’s disrupting the conversation (aka flaming).
I’ll keep an eye out for Sam’s comments from now on.
Thanks Weka for responding and clarifying the moderation process and I understand the links thing. Will do next time.
I recognise that a lot of us can on occasions be rude especially in the heat of debate. At times I get a bit loose with terms like assh*le, w*anker, moron, d*ckhead etc when responding in my own head to various posters (and in other situations) but try not to use them in posts.
Some people just seem to be naturally nasty. In Sam’s case the abuse in the thread was consistent and it pissed me off. It didn’t matter who it was being directed at. No-one should have to put up with consistent nastiness like that.
Yeah, the US still has a biased and undemocratic system that allowed the person without even the plurality of voter support to ‘win’.
America only became the second most racist bigoted country behind Europ
[Citation Needed]
And please don’t talk about the U.S health system, there’s a reason why the U.S health system is the most expensive in the world. Because Obama care is a dog, which is two steps removed from Nixons Medicare bill…
Of course there is – it’s because it’s privatised and thsu has the dead-weight loss of profit, the dead-weight loss of advertising (which carries more dead-weight loss of profit), massively over paid execs and then the bludging shareholders.
Obama care made things a little cheaper but all that dead-weight loss of capitalists really hurts.
I just had to clear a few things up because you’ve got no argument. You muppets are just given these memes that you shit post with out even checking to see what the memes all about.
I don’t know of any studies that say Europe is the most racist place on the planet. It’s an observation that most Europeans are blond and blue eyed. Pretty innocuous really until people start to deviate even the tiniest bit then holy shit it all comes out. I mean America learnt it from Europ and the plebs learnt it from the lords.
It’s a much less controversial subject to grasp then say a ballistic missile screen with kiwi roundels on the side. I mean what kind of auto retard would come up with a defence white paper submission like that eh muh boi.
You don’t have to defend Trump to be on the wrong side of the line according to today’s McCarthyism adam. You just have to be perceived as not being most loyally positioned on what is claimed to be the right side. And the quickest way to achieve that is simply to question.
I can’t help but notice, that for all the quick off the mark “drive by” commenting, side swiping and ad hom bullshit that generally seeks to beat down any skeptical Trump/Russia comment, not a dicky bird has come in response to that article pasted above.
I agree on both counts Micky, but would add those Democrats – the faction within the Democratic Party they represent; they also need to go.
It appears much that’s happening by way of grassroots organising in the US recognises that as being the case….but their voices are getting drowned out by the successful hyping of, too often vacuous anti-Trump stuff, by that very faction in the Democratic Party that needs to be gone.
I’m optimistic. i don’t think what’s being done now can be sustained for the next three years, and that worthwhile voices of opposition will break through the smash as gradually it loses its hold on peoples imaginations and attention.
You’re forgetting that some Kiwis couldn’t give two fucks about Russia collusion and see all those obsessed with it as being in the same wacky boat, much like those fervents on both sides of the fluoride debate. In short, time-wasters!
Let’s see the foreign student numbers in Wellington attending these low quality and sometimes fraudulent courses. Add to that permanent Air BnBs and I bet you these are the things placing pressure on the rental market.
The Trump administration is moving to prohibit people from Haiti — which the president allegedly insulted in a meeting last week — from applying for visas for seasonal and farm workers.
The Department of Homeland Security has given notice it plans to prohibit people from Haiti, as well as Belize and Samoa, from applying for H-2A and H-2B visas, which are temporary.
I see that Twyford’s housing plans are coming to fruition.
Here, apparently, are 9 houses, all on the one site. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11976734
They are generously sized though. 28 square metres should be enough for anyone it seems.
I wonder if the “affordable” houses they are planning that people can buy will be like these?
Forgotten the Transit Camps alwyn? They were around the same size. Back in the 40s, 50s and 60s they were used to house people for a few months while they waited their turn for a new State House. Better than a car don’t you think?
The people making the complaints are jumping to wrong conclusions. Maybe they should do some checking before they go running to the media.
Not sure I agree with that ms. Maybe the Nat led government were planning to house them for a longer period, but I’m sure Twyford could arrange to put them to good use as temporary accommodation for those in the most desperate need.
see my comment 6.2 about the use of Transit Camps.
Sorry ms. I should have been more explicit. I was referring to the symptomatic of the last Government’s contempt for poor people.
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but it is something this govt. can work with to temporarily house the most needy individuals until more permanent housing has become available.
I thought it might be a good time to point people to the Policy and general culture here around moderation (apropos OM, not this thread). Main point I’d like to make is that once an author gets out the bold pen there is far less leeway involved in the discussion for commenters. This is because for moderators, having to spend time arguing about moderation when the other person isn’t listening or is arguing back or is being an arse is tedious. Most of us don’t have the time or patience.
It’s hard to get people to write here when the community makes things difficult for them. Even more so moderators. Commenters are expendable, authors generally aren’t. This isn’t a kumbayah, everyone has equal rights kind of place, sorry lefties. While there is a very high commitment from the authors to robust debate and creating a place that progressives and lefties and people aligned with the labour movement want to be, there is no doubt that the people who do the mahi of getting posts up so that every day all year we all have a place to read and comment, those authors takes precedent and have a large say in how the place is run.
Personally, I like talking about moderation. I did it a lot as a commenter before I became an author and moderator. I have never been moderated on TS. This is because I pay attention to who is moderating and where *their boundaries are (not where I think they should be). Each moderator has a different style, some are more hands on, others more hands off. It’s worth learning what those are.
I don’t mind people talking about my moderations so long as its respectful and not challenging (that’s going to be context dependent). Asking questions is good too. However arguing with a moderator is pretty risky and some moderators will just ban early on for that. If you don’t want to get banned, then pay attention to what the moderator is saying.
It looks to me like he’s arguing political points. He’s being a bit of an arse doing it the way he is*, but basically he’s responded to your comment calling for a boycott of the charities who benefit from pokies by pointing out that those charities not getting money will mean less services for people. There is a political response to his argument, which someone could make.
*so there is an ongoing antagonism from james towards you over the meat thing. I’ll keep an eye on it, and by all means bring anything ott to my attention as a moderator, but in general he’s within the site rules from what I can tell (I certainly don’t read all posts though). The reason he doesn’t get a permanent ban is because TS would be really boring if we banned all the RWNJs and/or people who are arses some of the time.
In terms of strategy, I’ve found ignoring disrespectful people helps, but often you need to put a boundary in place as well. I wouldn’t both arguing with him over it though, because I think that’s why he’s poking at you (to get a reaction). There’s plenty of other people here to talk to 🙂
[Seriously, you’re in a conversation with a moderator, is flaming really a smart move? Because all I see is an increasing workload for me (and others), when I’m already spending my spare time trying to share with commenters about how things work here. At the moment I’m seeing too many people treating TS like it’s their personal sandpit. – weka]
@ Ed … a good few of us appreciate your posts. So keep them coming please.
Anyone who relies on arrogance, insults and rudeness to get their message across has automatically lost the argument, as seen by one or two posters on this site, with one in particular, failing to contribute to the debate at all. Ignore him Ed.
…and then pack a sad and start bleating about abuse and aggression when people who disagree with you actually discuss the topic. If you can’t handle disagreement, initiating topics of discussion isn’t a good hobby.
But in truth often the person isn’t discussing the topic but merely taking cheap shots. If someone then doesn’t ignore this then it takes the focus away doesn’t it.
“If you can’t handle disagreement, initiating topics of discussion isn’t a good hobby.”
I think this is true, but it’s also true that whatever Ed does or doesn’t do doesn’t excuse the behaviour of others. Not all of what happens here is useful, meaningful or conducive to whatever people think this place exists for. Sometimes people are just mean.
Problem is Ed, while you think that (which is fine, you are entitled to your beliefs), lots of people disagree with you. When we try and discuss that we don’t get very far with you. Again that’s fine, but lots of people are here for the debate and aren’t interested in taking on someone else’s beliefs when they can’t be argued for.
Edit, btw, I appreciate the efforts you have made to change your commenting style here over time. That’s not gone unnoticed 🙂
I stopped eating meat just over a year ago when I saw this film ‘Earthlings’. Once seen, there is no unseeing it. You suddenly realise how cruel, unnecessary and barbaric meat eating is.
Up to then I was nearly a pescetarian, as had cut down flesh eating because I had become aware of the environmental impact of animal agriculture.
The side effect was my health. When you are a vegan/vegetarian you eat little processed food. So I now eat little sugar and I can vouch for the health benefits of a plant based diet. Read a book called ‘How not to die’ by Michael Greger.
So the three main reasons to stop eating animals.
1. It is cruel
2. It is bad for the planet.
3. It is good for your health.
Yeah I understand you probably kind of have to defend moderation, but I note that you normally talk about patterns of behaviour, and I can’t see that with RB myself… ug I just hope ya’ll are talking about it in the back end cos I do see a pattern and it’s not a good look for the site I reckon
The pattern I saw with the r-b situation was not about them personally (haven’t looked tbh but there does appear to be some history with Bill), but the tendency for too many commenters to think they can argue with moderation. You really can’t. And for bloody good reasons.
Moderating for behaviour in the community is a different issue and yes we do take note of the pattern of behaviour of individuals.
r-b got a week’s ban. As Lynn would say, that might be educational for them and for others. It’s not the end of the world. People need to stop thinking that moderation is about fairness for commenters. While we generally do try and be fair, in the end it often comes down to what the author needs to do to make it possible for the author to be here not the commenter. This is why I suggest getting to know individual moderator style and err on the side of caution.
Yeah maybe the no argue/appeal thing is an issue in itself, don’t want a bunch of cv’s running the show do you? No cos he ended up banned eh. Tell you another thing- very few people on this site ever admit they were wrong, but RB did
“Yeah maybe the no argue/appeal thing is an issue in itself, don’t want a bunch of cv’s running the show do you? No cos he ended up banned eh.”
Don’t get what you are saying there. CV got banned for a very long pattern of behaviour that caused major issues for the site. He had plenty of chances and blew them. I don’t see how that’s relevant to this situation.
People can certainly ask why they’ve been banned, and ask for it to be reviewed. I think it’s important to understand the difference between that and arguing with a moderator, or attacking an author. That’s the whole point of what I am writing here.
I’m not the first to make the cv comparison, and the relevance, to me, is a pattern, as mentioned above, causing problems, as it obviously is from all the comments in this case at least.
RB admitted fault, apologised, was being very polite in the face of abuse, didn’t actually do what she was accused of as far as I could see, and had her main points ignored by the mod, all in open mike, not even the authors own post. Robust debate? Safe space for woman? Hmmmm.
I’m still not getting it. Are you saying that Bill is acting like CV?
I’ve explained why I think the moderation happened. What is it specifically about that that you don’t understand or agree with? Because at the moment I am seeing a bunch of people saying they didn’t think r-b should be banned but they’re not actually taking notice of the reasons why r-b was banned.
Maybe the CV comparison is down to the simple fact that CV submitted posts, comments and links that were not approved of by some.
Just for a moment, put aside that CV drifted off into right wing conspiracy stuff and his problematic approach on some basic issues.
Where are we at in terms of comparison?
Well, it could be something to do with moderation. Except I don’t think I’m far wrong in saying CV never banned anyone. And yesterday’s outpouring from some commenters ostensibly revolved around my moderation of a potentially libelous comment.
So we have some who are happy to ignore or minimise an instances of the site being made vulnerable, and happy to pile into an author and moderator who’s political views they disagree with.
And that, from my perspective, is the sum and total of the comparison to CV – that for some, a level of political disagreement is all that’s required to “play the player and not the ball”.
My “replies” feed is fairly well taken up with the same people repeatedly submitting “drive by” comments and snarky one liners that have had the effect of derailing or killing debate.
And those same people and those same type of comments appear to fairly consistently dished up in response to identifiable political lines coming from a left perspective.
There was an “unfortunate” ‘green light’ given for all of this. But I’ll only talk about that back end or in private.
Meanwhile, maybe some people need to sit back and think on the differences between supporting a labour blog and supporting a sports team.
I hope it hasn’t put ‘red blooded’ off from commenting here because her/his comments are always well thought through and worth reading. In my view, a warning would have been sufficient – but that is just my view.
I also hope rb isn’t put off commenting here. I guess a weeks ban doesn’t seem that bad to me in the scheme of things but maybe I’m just tired.
I think warnings are a good idea but just noting that the comment where Bill did the banning was the third exchange. Yes, it’s good if moderators make it black and white, but Bill did actually explain what he thought was an appropriate response and rb decided to argue with him some more. At the most basic level, that’s wasting moderator time.
The Policy even says it explicitly,
Generally wasting a moderators time is just not a good idea. We’re there to deal with isolated problems. People persistently sucking up our voluntary time won’t like the results.
All good (if people frame their comments in ways that are thoughtful or evenhanded, then the moderator can choose to respond or not).
You’re one of the most respectful regulars here Anne. Even when you and I have disagreed strongly I never have the sense that you carry grudges over or that you think it’s ok to attack people.
This is because for moderators, having to spend time arguing about moderation when the other person isn’t listening or is arguing back or is being an arse is tedious. Most of us don’t have the time or patience.
I totally get that. On the other hand, if a moderator annoys the site’s commenters with arbitrary, ill-tempered authoritarianism, that can also end up costing you time and effort responding to all the annoyed commenters. Some moderators’ styles are more expensive than others.
I’m not interested in a conversation where you frame Bill as the problem. He’s not. And I’m finding it increasingly annoying and concerning that some people here think that taking powers off a long time author and moderator is appropriate because you don’t like something about them. As I said earlier, if you don’t like Bill’s commenting style then stay out of those debates and if you don’t like his moderating style then don’t push the boundaries.
In recent years there’s been only been one author whose moderation caused problems for the site to the extent that the other authors felt the need to take action over. That was TRP and he eventually caused problems for the *authors. His moderation permissions were dropped back to Author and he decided to leave (a good decision IMO).
But I seem to recall that some of the debates about moderation (i.e. substantial threads such as this, rather than a couple of “why” comments at most) here and in other actvely-moderated forums have been more about hats – mods debating in-thread and then moderating, and back again. The moderations get a greater emphasis than the comments from the same person in the debates, or in other cases the moderation might tend towards debating itself, and it can become a minefield for commenters and aggravates the mods.
But then I like hats, so maybe I just have a bias towards hat analogies.
Lynn’s style is very efficient (I learned a lot from him).
The issue about moderating in threads one is commenting is is a particular issue for Bill and myself, who are both full time commenters (non of the other current authors are). I think the problem here is more about history (so each time e.g. Syria comes up we know there’s going to be shit flung around), and commenters being arse’s to the extent they can get away with. Much of my focus outside of the election stuff has been trying to get new authors and make TS somewhere that people would want to write. Far too often the commenting here is a problem for that.
As I’ve just commented in OM, when I see some long threads about how to improve things for authors, I’ll probably take the stuff about moderation fairness more seriously. At the moment it looks like a bunch of people think TS exists for the regular commenters. While I have a great appreciation for the commentariat (I probably wouldn’t write without it), it really has to be balanced against people wanting to write here.
Well weka – I have to tell you that what I saw today turned me off this site big time. The Standard has been my go to site almost every day for almost as long as the site has been in existence.*
But I have to say that the treatment of Red today was the lowest I have witnessed. I really hope that she ( So I gather from reading R B’s comments) returns. Her comments are usually very sound, and she did apologise for her error.
I have not been commenting lately because I feel the site is becoming an echo chamber for some, and frankly many of the comments verge on the unhinged.
*I remember the original Standard newpaper – it was regular reading in our household when I was young.
I’m am hoping so too. We need a strong voice on the Left here in NZ, and it is getting distorted by all sorts of distractions and bickering. It really needs to stop.
Well, no we don’t. There is no single “voice” of the left. The left comprises of voices.
And since this is a labour blog, it necessarily needs to accommodate and promote those voices (and more), if it is to live up to its claim of being a labour blog.
Some may see it as some kind of “duty” to shut down, marginalise and extinguish points of view that do not accord with their own, as opposed to genuinely debating (or ignoring) views that run counter to their own.
Such people, to my mind, are wrongheaded and a huge liability in terms of developing and exploring leftist discourses.
“Some may see it as some kind of “duty” to shut down, marginalise and extinguish points of view that do not accord with their own … ”
Oddly enough, Bill, that’s a fairly close description of how your behaviour here comes across to me.
[I’d also like some examples. Please provide three, with links and explanation so we know what you are referring to. Because otherwise it’s just another comment having a go at an Author/moderator. Although I appreciate the relatively neutral way you did it, there still needs to be more than just assertion by implication – weka]
If you can link to instances of me pointedly and/or deliberately derailing a line of argument with smash, or of “piling in” with others on someone at a personal level simply because they hold a given political perspective, or of completely ignoring an argument in favour of sledging someone, then by all means, feel free to provide those links.
Otherwise, your “oddly enough” perception of ‘my behaviour’ is just so much bullshit, aye?
And is informed by…well, what you think it might be informed by if what you say has no actual basis Andre?
Ok, weka, I wasn’t going to bother responding to Bill since it doesn’t appear he’s interested in honest feedback, but if you’re interested in hearing out how things come across to this reader and occasional commenter, then I’ll put the time in.
The first example I’ll use is yesterday’s fiasco with red-blooded. Important context there is that Ken (from Open Parachute) shares Bill’s controversial positions with respect to the Russia investigation, while red-blooded does not. (Ken also shares Bill’s controversial views on the Syria situation, which is also relevant context in that it makes Ken and Bill somewhat birds of a feather). When I first saw red-blooded’s starting comment, it was after the fluoride crap was well underway, but before Bill’s moderating. It was clearly a case of red-blooded forming a mistaken impression based on the look of one page. Based on Bill’s past behaviour and that Ken has close ideological affinity to Bill on this matter of importance to Bill, I guessed that Bill would respond with aggressive commenting and/or moderation way out of proportion to r-b’s error, which then results in r-b defending herself (naturally and politely in the event), which Bill then nit-picked and goaded with further responses to get to the point of justifying banning. And so it played out.
The episodes with Jenny and Syria are another example of Bill appearing to “to shut down, marginalise and extinguish points of view”. That played out over a number of posts, culminating in this: https://thestandard.org.nz/heroes-2/#comment-1299115 Important context is that Jenny claimed to have been in Syria, so had first hand on-the-ground experience. I’ve only briefly passed through Syria, and haven’t spoken much with acquaintances that have been in Syria much more recently, nevertheless Jenny’s comments were in line with the (very limited) information I have from my own channels. From what I could see across multiple posts, Jenny’s only offence was to continue pushing back at the line Bill was pushing, even after threats of moderation. Bill’s behaviour towards Psycho Milt in those same threads also struck me as trying to shut Milt down in the same way.
Sorry, I’ve got a commitment I need to get to (and a crashing computer) so I’ve run out of time to link a third example and unpack why it appears to me Bills behaviour suppresses open debate.
Damn Andre, you’re right! Ken at Open Parachute does have a skeptical approach to western reporting on Syria. I just wish I’d known sooner so I might have read some of his thoughts on it all at the time.
I find it somewhat odd you’re strecthing back to something from over over a year ago ( a year long ban handed down to Jenny), that “someone” said of at the time…
” I’m surprised she hasn’t copped a permanent ban to be honest, but I suspect that it’s because moderators have been cutting her some slack.”
And is this for real you think I’m not interested in honest feedback? Or is it that you know damned fine well there are no examples of me engaging in the type of behaviour listed, and so are doing ye olde “run away” defense maneuver?
I hope not. Because I genuinely want any links to examples you can find. Maybe after your commitment, crashing computer and third example to Weka are all out of the way? That would be appreciated.
thanks Andre. I’m not willing to discuss the moderation issues any more where they’re focussed on Bill (not because of you specifically, just the whole thing has gone on way too long and too many people still seem to think it’s ok to have a go at authors).
I will say that with regards to Jenny, that I have moderated her a number of times for exactly what she was moderated for in your link. She has a long history of spamming posts with her own views that she often uses to derail posts and push her own agenda. She also repeatedly lied about the views of authors. Those things are unacceptable. I won’t let an MRA push anti-feminist lines in a post I wrote about sexism. Just because a post goes up about x topic doesn’t mean it’s a free for all. Authors have a right to protect the conversations under their posts and keep them relatively on topic. Of the active moderators here, all do that btw.
There was a lot of effort to not give Jenny a permanent ban, and as you can see from my comment in the thread you linked to, she was easily the person that took up the most moderation time of any commenter. In the end she copped a long term ban.
I’m giving that context, because I think that your views of moderation are contextualised in your experiences as a commenter in discussions about politics where you differ from a moderator. My views of Jenny are broader and take into account the very things that moderation is here to address – people that can’t work within the bounds of the site and cause problems especially for authors. Moderation of Jenny wasn’t about shutting down debate, it was actually about protecting the debate culture here, and the ability of authors to write without being harassed.
May I remind you Bill that the Labour movement and the power of the Unions was not having many different voices but a united voice and purpose.
When the union’s inspiration through the workers’ blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
Chorus
Solidarity forever, solidarity forever
Solidarity forever
For the Union makes us strong
solidarity
unity or agreement of feeling or action, especially among individuals with a common interest; mutual support within a group.
There, I think, go the European syndicalists and the OBU of “the states” down the memory hole then (if you’re suggesting unions are linked to political parties). And that’s before contemplating the labour movement as exists beyond just the narrow confines of unionism, and that also contains many revolutionary as well as reformist strands….some parliamentary and some not…and most certainly not all singing from the same song sheet.
Oh god no… my Dad warned me about people like you. When I learnt to drive he told me to keep well away from men in hats. According to him they were all terrible drivers. 😈
Mind you that was an awful long time ago. Maybe they’re better drivers now. 🙂
“On the other hand, if a moderator annoys the site’s commenters with arbitrary, ill-tempered authoritarianism, that can also end up costing you time and effort responding to all the annoyed commenters. Some moderators’ styles are more expensive than others.”
Sure, but it’s always interesting to me that hardly anyone gives Lynn shit about his moderation style.
Basically what’s happening here is similar to what happened to Stephanie. She tried to be fair but to moderate firmly, and got slammed. I learned a lot about what happens here to authors who also comment on the site and moderate. It’s not pretty.
I think Bill is entitled to moderate as he sees fit, even where I disagree with some of his individual moderations (he disagrees with mine too btw, there’s not really any precise consensus on it amongst the authors, although there are broad agreements). He’s the one putting up posts.
And there’s no good reason why the commentariat can’t moderate itself better.
NB: I’m criticising a moderator’s action specifically because you’ve asked me to do it, not because I’m feeling particularly suicidal – please read this comment with that in mind.
Banning someone who’s just apologised for the mistake they made doesn’t make sense to me. What Bill describes as someone making a “false accusation” and “playing the victim” looks to me like someone who’s apologising for an egregious and embarrassing error but also won’t let stand the suggestion that maybe it was a lie rather than a mistake.
1. The original comment was a straight up smear, a falsehood – and exactly the type of comment that can be taken as being slanderous or libelous. (And all mods err on the side of caution with that) – (link)
2. I quite reasonably stated in response to Anne (who had taken red-blooded at their word) that a number of ‘arguably problematic’ comments had been submitted, “… off the back of a mistake or a lie on the part of Red Blooded that would have taken ‘one click and two seconds’ to get to the bottom of.(link)
3.The “apology” was of the common garden “I’m sorry if anyone was offended” variety of apology (ie – not really an apology at all) – (link)
4. Riding in the same comment as “the apology” there were attempts to minimise and/or excuse the smearing by way of attacking Ken of Open Parachute again (essentially and ludicrously equating her fuck-up with the fact Ken had said he hadn’t read “Fire and Fury”).
5. redblooded also decided to isolate the word ‘lie’ mentioned at number 2. and run with some victim nonsense (in bold type) off it within the same comment as the supposed apology.
6. They ran with the “you called me a liar” in a further comment. (link)
7. I’ve been quietly noting that although Anne bore the brunt of my initial somewhat caustic response to the effects of whole fluoride nonsense, not one of the good people so concerned about my interactions hereabouts have seen fit to say a dicky bird in support of Anne or commented that I was being a bit harsh in my reply to her.
8. Having flicked through the list of bans that have landed on people for putting forward falsehoods etc, I can tell you straight that red-blooded got off lightly.
I hope that clears things up somewhat in terms of understanding for you there PM.
I’ve been quietly noting that although Anne bore the brunt of my initial somewhat caustic response to the effects of whole fluoride nonsense, not one of the good people so concerned about my interactions hereabouts have seen fit to say a dicky bird in support of Anne or commented that I was being a bit harsh in my reply to her.
Did you ban her? The answer to that also serves as an answer to why nobody’s had any complaints about it.
1. Libellous? Ken’s going to take us to the cleaners? Please. May I suggest in future when you link to Open Parachute you declare your relationship with Ken? I think the vehemence of your original post on OM took many people by surprise.
3. That’s your opinion. RB apologised promptly and quite adequately I thought. You seem to be asking for a much more subservient apology.
7. Seriously, you don’t appear to realise that posters post in fear of a banning when asking questions of moderators about moderation. After warnings from weka to not debate it anymore and your “somewhat caustic responses” – we don’t! No surprise then no one backed her up at that point.
8. RB’s was a hurried mistake. We’ve all done it. RB acknowledged the mistake, yet you still call it a falsehood which is another word for ‘lie’. Channelling James there, Bill.
[I’m now shutting this down too. Please stop relitigating the moderation now. I opened up a discussion about it in the hopes that we could gain some better understanding of how moderation works here. But there has been far too much having a go at authors. It appears that some people still don’t know how to discuss moderation without trying to undermine the author.
I really hope that red-blooded isn’t put off by this because she is a great commenter for the site. It’s only a week’s ban and it looks to me like some people are using this as a reason to criticise Bill. I don’t have the time to keep checking whether people are overstepping the bounds, so I think it’s better just to move on.
General comments about moderation are ok with me personally, but I think that some are struggling with how to do that without telling the authors how to run the site. I suggest we take a step back and focus on other things for a while. My other best advice is that if you want to have less tight or stringent moderation here, start finding ways to make the place better for Authors and Moderators. – weka]
I see. So if you were running a blog and legally liable, you’d base your moderation around defamation and possible defamation etc on whether or not the person being defamed was likely to take action or was capable of taking action. Good oh.
You wouldn’t be lasting long.
The “vehemence” of the original “cut and paste” intro on a double link comment recommending a read? My relationship with Ken? What the fuck are you on about?
_________________________
“Exhibit A m-lud”.
Yep the Brits have woken up to the fact that PPP’s suck big time and have cost the tax payers billions. The attraction is the apparent initial up-front cost. Take the Northern Gateway – that the Clark govt signed up to. Now a small section of SH1 from Orewa to Puhoi is tolled. (ie uses pay a tax which is collected by the Govt and payed to a private company!) For using a section of the main highway of NZ.
This nonsense can be repeated in almost all facets of Govt service. Hospitals, Education, you name it. I just hope that our current govt takes heed, because enough is enough.
The Herald calls it weird weather.
Rachel Stewart asks if we’re worried yet.
For blogger David Kennedy at Local Bodies, climate change just got personal……
“Obviously I am not a drought stricken farmer, whose economic survival is at stake, but this is the garden that I have invested 25 years into and have planted and nurtured many of these plants over that time. I have done my best to engender a greater awareness of climate change over many years and now that its effects have become super-personal I am very angry at those who I hold partly responsible.
I am angry with the previous government that ignored advice and promoted fossil fuel madness instead (encouraging mining and drilling and spending billions on new motorways.) I am angry with Fonterra for pursuing a high greed agenda that wasn’t sustainable and was largely responsible for the huge increase in methane emissions. I am angry at all those in the US who refused to vote responsibly and not consider our children and grandchildren’s future when they voted for Donald Trump.
Mostly I am worried that we are too late and the climate change juggernaut has built up too great a head of steam to turn around. James Shaw, the new Minister for Climate Change, has a huge job ahead. ”
To claim that misogyny is a pyramid built upon a silent majority might seem like a harsh indictment, but it is also an empowering one. If men can swallow the confronting reality that their silence is foundational to both sexism and sexual violence, then they get to embrace the inverse reality—that their vocal dissent could begin to destabilise these evils at their base. This counts most of all when there are no women around—I have a feeling the most sexist things ever said about me occurred when I wasn’t in earshot, or even in the room. It counts in the all-male text chain. It counts in the locker-room. It counts when there are no women there to pat you on the back. It counts when there’s nothing in it for you.
An interesting perspective.
Don’t know what I think about this.
But it it thought provoking.
Geoff Simmons.
“It appears we are being softened-up for a watering-down of Labour’s target on child poverty.
Their initial plan was to reduce the number of children in poverty by 100,000. Their much vaunted Families Package alone was predicted to reduce poverty by around 88,000 (compared to National’s tax cut package with 50,000). But apparently someone in Treasury got their numbers wrong – the number is likely to be a lot lower (they don’t know how much yet).
Depending on how you measure it, there are between 150,000-300,000 children in poverty at the moment. The target of 100,000 looks a long way off, and there isn’t much moolah left in the kitty.
The hidden message here is clear; sorry but this is all a lot harder than it first looked. We are doing our best, but reducing child poverty will take a fair bit longer than we thought.
Of course this is complete poppycock. In Government anything is possible. It is simply a question of priorities. And clearly, like the last Labour-led Government, poverty isn’t as much of a priority as they like to claim it is……”
……whereas I do know what I think about this.
Like Gareth Hughes, I think we should ban rodeos.
” It’s time for NZ to resign rodeo to the history books.
This summer there will be about 33 rodeo events around New Zealand, where animals are wrestled, roped, chased, tied up, yanked, poked and hurt.
Rodeo events include calf-roping, steer wrestling and bull riding, all of which rely on inflicting pain and fear in animals to get them to perform. Rodeos contain deliberate cruelty, such as using electric prods and rope burning, but they also rely on inherent cruelty by exposing animals to rougher behaviour than they’d ever experience on a farm or props such as flank straps provoking distress.
Common injuries include broken ribs, backs and legs, punctured lungs, deep internal organ bruising, haemorrhaging, ripped tendons, torn or stretched ligaments and muscles, broken necks, torn trachea, spinal damage and disc rupture, bruising, and subcutaneous tissue damage…..
One of the worst events is calf-roping, which involves calves as young as three months old fleeing at speed from a rider on a horse. The rider lassos the calf around the neck, jerking it violently off its feet, then dismounts and wrestles the animal to the ground and ties its legs together……
In the past, dog fighting, bear baiting and cock fighting were all considered “community entertainment”, but thankfully our animal welfare standards have improved and that’s no longer the case.
It’s time to resign rodeo to the history books, where it belongs.”
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The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
The Government must commit to the Maitai School building project for students with high and complex needs, to ensure disabled students from the top of the South Island have somewhere to learn. ...
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey and his Government colleagues have made a meal of their mental health commitments, showing how flimsy their efforts to champion the issue truly are, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
The government's plan to reintroduce a three strikes regime is being strongly opposed by lawyers, who argue there is no evidence it reduces crime or helps people rehabilitate. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dan Jerker B. Svantesson, Professor specialising in Internet law, Bond University Do Australian courts have the right to decide what foreign citizens, located overseas, view online on a foreign-owned platform? Anyone inclined to answer “yes” to this question should perhaps also ask ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Giovanni E Ferreira, NHMRC Emerging Leader Research Fellow, Institute of Musculoskeletal Health, University of Sydney Last week in a post on X, owner of the platform Elon Musk recommended people look into disc replacement if they’re experiencing severe neck or back pain. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Hayward, Emeritus Professor of Public Policy, RMIT University anek.soowannaphoom/Shutterstock NSW Treasurer Daniel Mookhey caught the headlines yesterday, courtesy of a blistering speech condemning the latest GST carve-up. New South Wales, he claimed, would be A$11.9 billion worse off over the ...
While police are "broadly in favour", the government's proposed anti-gang laws are facing pushback from lawyers, rights groups and former gang members. ...
While police are "broadly in favour", the government's proposed anti-gang laws are facing pushback from lawyers, rights groups and former gang members. ...
By Miriam Zarriga in Port Moresby Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has arrived at Kokoda Station, Northern province, at the start of his state visit to Papua New Guinea. Both Albanese and Prime Minister James Marape will meet with the locals and the Northern Provincial government before they begin their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Chris Wallace, Professor, School of Politics Economics & Society, Faculty of Business Government & Law, University of Canberra Shutterstock An important principle was invoked by Prime Minister Anthony Albanese last week in defence of the government’s Future Made in Australia industry ...
By Patrick Decloitre, RNZ Pacific correspondent French Pacific desk Security forces reinforcements were sent from France ahead of two rival marches in the capital Nouméa today, at the same time and only two streets away one from the other. One march, called by Union Calédonienne party (a component of the ...
A poll last August found that just 16% of New Zealanders oppose bringing back the ‘Three Strikes’ law. The nationwide poll of 1,000 New Zealanders was commissioned by Family First NZ and carried out by Curia Market Research. ...
The solo show from Ana Scotney is both sprawling and intimate, and a must-see, writes Mad Chapman. In the opening moments of Scattergun: After the Death of Rūaumoko, writer and performer Ana Scotney lays out the groundwork, literally. Silently moving around the square stage, Scotney is not so much dancing ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Burridge, Professor of Linguistics, Monash University Who makes the words? Why are trees called trees and why are shoes called shoes and who makes the names? – Elliot, age 5, Eltham, Victoria Good question Elliot! Let’s start with ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne at amRawpixel.com/Shutterstock Roles of health professionals are still unfortunately often stuck in the past. That is, before the ...
COMMENTARY:By Malcolm Evans Last week’s leaked New York Times staff directive, as to what words can and cannot be used to describe the carnage Israel is raining on Palestinians, is proof positive, since those reports are published verbatim here in New Zealand, that our understanding of the conflict is ...
In the case of New Zealand, the results confirm that there is no popular support for the vicious austerity program being imposed by the National Party-led government, which is backed in all fundamental respects by the opposition Labour Party. ...
The ‘Vampire’ singer has never visited our part of the world, but that might all be about to change. We assess the evidence.Olivia Rodrigo’s Guts World Tour is pulling in massive crowds as it whips around the US and Europe, even helping to catapult regular supporting act Chappell Roan ...
Testing of drinking water in rural Canterbury over the weekend by Greenpeace revealed that several public town supplies were reaching levels of nitrate above 5 mg/L - the threshold which a growing body of scientific evidence has linked to increased ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rohan Fisher, Information Technology for Development Researcher, Charles Darwin University It may come as a surprise to hear 2023 was Australia’s biggest bushfire season in more than a decade. Fires burned across an area eight times as big as the 2019–20 Black ...
Responding to the Government’s announcement of changes to resource management laws, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director, Jordan Williams, said: “These changes are a step in the right direction in terms of removing ideological and unworkable ...
More than two years after the Human Rights Council called for the establishment of a national human rights commission, such a body has yet to be formed. ...
Comment:An emergency management system with wide variations in performance, significant capability gaps, funding shortfalls and above all a setup that is not meeting the needs of New Zealanders at times of crisis. The Government’s inquiry into the response to Cyclone Gabrielle and other severe weather events in the North ...
Welcome to the whirring wonders of one brain trying to align its actions with its beliefs within a system it thinks is evil. My brain has been spiralling in a woke conundrum ever since I found out a bookshop I’ve never been to was shutting down. Good Books, a bookshop ...
We repeat our call for criminal justice policy to be based on evidence, something the three strikes regime neglects to recognise – with no evidence that it either reduces crime or assists with rehabilitation. ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor in Honiara With only four more seats in the 50-member Parliament yet to be officially declared, there is no outright winner in the Solomon Islands elections. As of Monday, the two largest blocs in the winner’s circle, independents and the incumbent Prime Minister Manasseh ...
Two/fiftyseven is a multi-purpose space hidden in the heart of Wellington that is paving a way for sustainable building and responsible landlording in Aotearoa and beyond.By 2060 the world is predicted to double its entire building stock, which equates to building an entire New York City every 34 days, ...
Popstars wasn’t just a reality television revolution, it was also a huge moment for Y2K fashion.It’s 25 years since girl group TrueBliss was formed on New Zealand national television, breaking new ground for both the reality television industry and the shiny clothing industry. With the first episode on NZ ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Pepping, Associate Professor in Clinical Psychology, Griffith University Marvin / Shutterstock Are all single people insecure? When we think about people who have been single for a long time, we may assume it’s because single people have insecurities that make ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By William Geary, Lecturer in Quantitative Ecology & Biodiversity Conservation, The University of Melbourne Trismegist san, Shutterstock Landscapes that have escaped fire for decades or centuries tend to harbour vital structures for wildlife, such as tree hollows and large logs. But these ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Gladstone-Gallagher, Lecturer in Marine Science, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Shutterstock/S Curtis Why are we crossing ecological boundaries that affect Earth’s fundamental life-supporting capacity? Is it because we don’t have enough information about how ecosystems respond to change? Or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matthew Crocker, PhD Student in Economics, Deakin University Here’s something for the board of the Reserve Bank of Australia to ponder as it meets next month to set interest rates. It has pushed up rates on 13 occasions since it began its ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a charity director outlines how she’s saving for retirement and buying secondhand. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here.Gender: Female Age: 45 Ethnicity: Pākehā Role: Charity director, mum of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sophie Yates, Research Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Many Australians with disability feel on the edge of a precipice right now. Recommendations from the disability royal commission and the NDIS review were released late last year. Now a ...
It’s been called a failed experiment and a judicial straightjacket but the government says the revised three strikes law will be a more workable regime, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Three ...
New Zealand’s Palestinian community and Palestinian Youth Aotearoa are voicing alarm and disappointment with the lack of factual rigour present during the Israeli Ambassador’s appearance as a guest on TVNZ’s Q+A With Jack Tame Sunday (21/04). ...
Both ACT leader David Seymour, who played a key role in drawing up the assisted dying law, and hospice leaders say it's time the legislation was changed. ...
Public submissions on proposed gang control laws are being heard today. Rising gang membership has been cited as rationale for a crackdown – but what do we actually know about how many people belong to gangs in New Zealand?What’s all this then?A rise in the number of gang ...
Climate activists are setting their sights on an unpopular target, and hoping to bring lots of the public with them. It’s hard to miss the Majestic Princess: the enormous cruise ship, docked at Auckland’s Prince’s Wharf, looms over the nearby buildings. The ship, which can fit nearly 6,000 people, ...
Opinion: Making sure developers, local and central government, and landowners are all on the same page makes sense The post A new kind of city deal appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[quiz],DIV[quiz],A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question?Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Tuesday 23 April appeared first on Newsroom. ...
The following korero between Ngāhuia te Awekōtuku, author of the newly published memoir Hine Toa, one of the year’s most important books, and Dale Husband from e-tangata, was first published in October. It traverses her involvement with the activist group Ngā Tamatoa at Auckland University in the early 1970s, her ...
In the 16 years since it was bought by the government for $690 million, KiwiRail has had several overhauls and turnaround plans worth billions of dollars. Its ambitions as a successful, profitable operator of tourism, freight and ferries have often been derailed by disasters from earthquakes to cyclones, mine explosions ...
Black Ferns trailblazer Kendra Cocksedge was on the verge of tears when her young protégé, Hannah King, unassumingly broke the news. Three-time Rugby World Cup winner Cocksedge and Lincoln agriculture student King meet every few weeks over a hot chocolate, in an enduring mentorship that’s spanned years. “Before we even ...
Opinion: We’ve kicked the tyres on the perception NZ’s economy is in a parlous state compared to Australia. We take a quick tour of relative trends in GDP, housing markets, labour markets, trade, the fiscal situation, and the outlooks for inflation and interest rates. We find the cyclical positions of ...
By Russell Palmer, RNZ News digital political journalist New Zealand’s Foreign Minister Winston Peters is putting off recognition of Palestine as a state, despite opposition Labour’s formal request that he make the move. Peters said diplomatic recognition of Palestine was a matter of “when not if”, but doing so now ...
The opposition has laid into the government's plan to reintroduce a "three strikes" regime, saying it's inequitable and there's very little evidence it works. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rob Nicholls, Senior research associate, University of Sydney Australia’s eSafety Commissioner has ordered social media platform “X” (formerly known as Twitter) to remove graphic videos of the stabbing of Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel in Sydney last week from the site. The incident ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Turnbull, Postdoctoral Research Associate, University of Sydney John Turnbull, CC BY-NC-ND In past bleaching events on the Great Barrier Reef, the southern region has sometimes been spared worst of the bleaching. Not this time. This year’s intense underwater heat has ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Austin, Lecturer in Theatre, The University of Melbourne Darren Gill/Mackey, Darling & Collaborators The relationship between witchcraft and teenage girls has been the subject of many books, films and television shows. Over time, the traditional image of witch as crone ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Calling all journalists, academics, planners, lawyers, political activists, environmentalists, and other members of the public who believe that the relationships between vested interests and politicians need to be scrutinised. We need to work together to make sure ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Becky Freeman, Associate Professor, School of Public Health, University of Sydney Andres Siimon/Unsplash There are no silver bullets, magic tricks or secret hacks to solving complex public health problems. Taking on the global tobacco industry and reducing the devastating consequences of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adam B. Watts, Research Associate in galaxy evolution, The University of Western Australia ESO/A. Watts et al., CC BY We breathe oxygen and nitrogen gas in our atmosphere every day, but did you know that these gases also float through space, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Suzanne Nielsen, Professor and Deputy Director, Monash Addiction Research Centre, Monash University Maxime Bhm/Unsplash A new group of drugs called nitazenes has been detected in Australia. They have been sold as heroin as well as other drugs like ketamine. Concerns ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anne Twomey, Professor emerita, University of Sydney Image from Bradlow + Bock campaign Can the job of being a federal member of parliament be shared by two or more persons? Two prospective candidates for the inner-Melbourne federal seat of Higgins, Lucy ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Zoe Rathus, Senior Lecturer in Law, Griffith University Shutterstock In October 2023, the federal parliament passed major changes to how children’s cases are decided under the Family Law Act, which kick in next month. Among other things, they repeal a ...
By Salwa Amor in Istanbul Palestine solidarity activists are preparing a flotilla to deliver urgently needed humanitarian aid to Gaza, vowing to break Israel’s blockade of the Palestinian territory on board the Akdeniz, a seven-deck passenger ship. Currently docked in Istanbul, the ship will carry 800 people from more than ...
The Government is putting at risk the defences of our land and sea borders against organised crime, and our online defences against child exploitation, terrorism and online crime with cuts to critical frontline roles at Customs and Internal Affairs. ...
The video included in this Guardian item speaks for itself:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/17/trump-fake-news-awards-winners
It’s been a pretty average day on the Standard and, as usual, the Trump arguments are at the centre of it.
This guy’s treatment of the media makes Winston Peters look like a saint. He just passed a massive tax relief package for the rich. He destroyed the first green shoots of public health care in the US since forever. He has laid waste to solutions in Israel/Palestine. He’s needlessly inflaming the situation on the Korean peninsula. He’s unashamedly sexist and racist, and that’s a fact. And there’s way more.
All these things should be anathema to people of the socially responsible left yet some here, authors included, have defended him today by attacking his critics.
I’m ashamed to be a part of this community right now.
Yeah. There’re reason why Trumo won, most Americans understand he’s a racist bigot because America is the home of racist bigots, I mean please don’t kid us if your trying to all of a sudden discover that America only became the second most racist bigoted country behind Europ. I mean congratulation for figuring out the secrete that only you and a select group of know all’s gatekeep. I mean wow, what a revelation.
And please don’t talk about the U.S health system, there’s a reason why the U.S health system is the most expensive in the world. Because Obama care is a dog, which is two steps removed from Nixons Medicare bill…
I just had to clear a few things up because you’ve got no argument. You muppets are just given these memes that you shit post with out even checking to see what the memes all about.
You normies are just amazing.
Do you have a mental illness?
[no idea what the point of that comment is, but it’s not the first time I’ve seen you having a go at someone using mental health slurs. Just stop. If I see it again I will ban – weka]
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18-01-2018/#comment-1437145 <<< that's you being a con artist…
That’s not being a con artist that’s just supply and demand.
Cry me a river. Trump won. Deal with muppet.
moderation note above, please respond.
Maybe you should moderate the guy for randomly abusing people.
His behaviour is a bit odd, to say the least.
Maybe you just piss me off which makes me unimpressed. And then I’m like role on BM. Because you online charlatan educators have no morals. People want to live a decent life with out judgment and that means a decent wage. But if they listen to people like you BM, well then they may aswell seek advice about living arrangements from John Key… What a joke.
I haven’t been reading Sam’s comments. The one above doesn’t seem particularly outside of what happens on TS, or what you do. If you have a problem with a comment, flag a moderator and point to specific things that are in breach of the Policy or otherwise causing a problem. Randomly suggesting that someone should be moderated doesn’t count. Nor does your personal opinion about behaviour being odd, you have to demonstrate something.
Hi Weka. The rules say no “pointless personal attacks”. From one thread today:
Sam 12.2.1
18 January 2018 at 3:23 pm
Hold it. Every one look at BM becoming a stable genius. How amazing it is the house prices will go up. Your a real fucking genius you know that BM… Amazing…
Sam 12.2.2.1.1.1
18 January 2018 at 3:56 pm
Nah. It’s like BM is reading from a script or something… Like he’s given these messages to say with out even understanding the words that are coming of his keyboard and when ever he goes off script he just comes across as a Nigerian con artist. He’s worthless.
Sam 12.2.2.2.2.1
18 January 2018 at 3:51 pm
We’ve already had BMs hysteria over drug testing state houses, and not even been unfit for habitation. Now BMs so thick in the head he dosnt even understand that he’s pushing a Ponzi scam. He’s a totally con.
Sam
18 January 2018 at 4:48 pm
If you think all rentals and tenants are the same then you’re insane… Because when BM assumes that all tenants and rentals are the same it’s actually mathematically impossible for BM to derive a supply curve…
I mean… Fuck me… This is why I don’t educate flaky virtue signallers.
Calling someone “a real fucking genius”, “worthless”, “thick in the head”, “totally con,” and “insane” sound like pointless personal attacks to me.
(As do referring to other posters as “normies” and “muppets”).
BM is a factory for propaganda. Just like commercials are literally the science of mind control. It sounds extremely ridiculous but it is something that is studied extensively. Propaganda is weird because you really don’t associate the harmless everyday thing as an EVIL tool.
Pepe the Frog, Kekistan, Trickle down effect, slut shaming, welfare shaming, minority shaming, memes dedicated to ridicule to whoever uses them. Now I hear about them being considered as white supremacist symbols? I mean, they are, and verifiably so, just from a casual glance through any of the Facebook/anime groups and white supremacist rallies. It’s stupid, and nobody will dispute that, but the Alt-right has made those into rallying symbols for their racist ideologies. You just have to view any of Kiwiblog or Whale oil to understand this kiwi style.
So now I’m like, have you got a problem with me you need to sort out? You’ll notice a huge difference in intellectual defence, between me and others. Others think they’re adults but really the right whinge like babies the most. That’s all they are, stuck with out a clue, that’s another feature of right wing ideology… The humble question mark?
How I answer those questions are two fold. First I tell them how they’re screwing up, then I tell them how not to screw up.
And there’s a third. After the two step process then I just casually not give a fuck.
Complaining that BM is being unfairly trolled is like whining that nobody likes your sweet new Buddhist Manji tattoo. It may have been perfectly innocent once upon a time, but now is not that time.
[“And there’s a third. After the two step process then I just casually not give a fuck.” What you will find is that once a moderator gets involved, your own views on how things should be become much less important. I will be looking at whether your style of commenting here is causing problems for the site. You might not give a fuck, I do, in part because I care about the community, but also because people who flame cause more work for moderators and in the end their political debate and action isn’t usually worth that. – weka]
I’m not complaining about BM bring unfairly trolled I’m complaining about your personal abuse. Can you make your points without it please.
BM and I have actually been around the supply and demand merry go round. I’m actually surprised no one has the intellectually capacity or educational background to spot these charlatans. BM is like the uncle that no one suspects shouldn’t be allowed with kids alone… And every one here is like. Oh no it’s fine…
moderator note for you to read and acknowledge.
?
I don’t know what that means. Please don’t waste my moderator time.
I’m no ones bitch
[that’s nice for you, but I still don’t know what you are on about and in the absence of a clear acknowledgement of the moderation note and offering clear communication, I’m going to give you an educational ban for wasting my moderator time. I suggest reading the Policy and asking about anything you are not clear about. 3 days, back on Monday – weka]
Grey, thanks. If you want me to look at a moderator you have to put links (the bit in the Policy about not wasting moderator time is there to reduce the amount of time moderators spend on moderating. The time needed to follow patterns of behaviour is significant, so if commenters want something addressed it’s way more likely to happen if you do the leg work for me. In the time it would take for me to find those quotes in context I could put up a post).
Calling someone “a real fucking genius”, “worthless”, “thick in the head”, “totally con,” and “insane” sound like pointless personal attacks to me.
It depends. If someone is making a political point they can often (not always) get away with being rude. Pointless abuse would be attacking someone with no political content in a comment. What I would be looking at is whether he is winding people up and that’s disrupting the conversation (aka flaming).
I’ll keep an eye out for Sam’s comments from now on.
Thanks Weka for responding and clarifying the moderation process and I understand the links thing. Will do next time.
I recognise that a lot of us can on occasions be rude especially in the heat of debate. At times I get a bit loose with terms like assh*le, w*anker, moron, d*ckhead etc when responding in my own head to various posters (and in other situations) but try not to use them in posts.
Some people just seem to be naturally nasty. In Sam’s case the abuse in the thread was consistent and it pissed me off. It didn’t matter who it was being directed at. No-one should have to put up with consistent nastiness like that.
I agree and raising the issue in a non inflammatory way with a mod is a good idea.
Semi-literate cretin opines….
[not a great fan of ableist ad homs either. Can we please up our game here? – weka]
Second most racist you say? (based on your own rantings Im sure)
Shows you have a very small view of the world. You should try expanding your horizons and knowledge.
In the meantime – here is something to read:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/?utm_term=.8091273aecbd
James… Never thought I’d see the day some one like you would fall in behind Killary… Normies just continuing to amaze…
Yeah, the US still has a biased and undemocratic system that allowed the person without even the plurality of voter support to ‘win’.
[Citation Needed]
Of course there is – it’s because it’s privatised and thsu has the dead-weight loss of profit, the dead-weight loss of advertising (which carries more dead-weight loss of profit), massively over paid execs and then the bludging shareholders.
Obama care made things a little cheaper but all that dead-weight loss of capitalists really hurts.
You’re just spreading your ignorance around.
I don’t know of any studies that say Europe is the most racist place on the planet. It’s an observation that most Europeans are blond and blue eyed. Pretty innocuous really until people start to deviate even the tiniest bit then holy shit it all comes out. I mean America learnt it from Europ and the plebs learnt it from the lords.
It’s a much less controversial subject to grasp then say a ballistic missile screen with kiwi roundels on the side. I mean what kind of auto retard would come up with a defence white paper submission like that eh muh boi.
And not to miss, that “The Same Democrats Who Denounce Donald Trump as a Lawless, Treasonous Authoritarian Just Voted to Give Him Vast Warrantless Spying Powers” 😉
Gotta make someone somewhere proud that one has.
Who defended trump? The critics who are telling lies, and spin should be called on their lies and spin.
This commitment by some on this site to hard core Byzantine Hippodrome style politics is getting out of hand.
You don’t have to defend Trump to be on the wrong side of the line according to today’s McCarthyism adam. You just have to be perceived as not being most loyally positioned on what is claimed to be the right side. And the quickest way to achieve that is simply to question.
I can’t help but notice, that for all the quick off the mark “drive by” commenting, side swiping and ad hom bullshit that generally seeks to beat down any skeptical Trump/Russia comment, not a dicky bird has come in response to that article pasted above.
Democrats who voted to continue to allow Trump huge powers need to hang their heads in shame. Trump needs to go.
I agree on both counts Micky, but would add those Democrats – the faction within the Democratic Party they represent; they also need to go.
It appears much that’s happening by way of grassroots organising in the US recognises that as being the case….but their voices are getting drowned out by the successful hyping of, too often vacuous anti-Trump stuff, by that very faction in the Democratic Party that needs to be gone.
I’m optimistic. i don’t think what’s being done now can be sustained for the next three years, and that worthwhile voices of opposition will break through the smash as gradually it loses its hold on peoples imaginations and attention.
We can but hope. 🙂
You’re forgetting that some Kiwis couldn’t give two fucks about Russia collusion and see all those obsessed with it as being in the same wacky boat, much like those fervents on both sides of the fluoride debate. In short, time-wasters!
Labour wanted to do something about housing ….Good luck renting a home in Wellington:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/100675144/rentals-in-hot-demand-and-shortage-wont-ease-anytime-soon-trade-me
Let’s see the foreign student numbers in Wellington attending these low quality and sometimes fraudulent courses. Add to that permanent Air BnBs and I bet you these are the things placing pressure on the rental market.
Paving the way for hard working Norwegians.
/
The Trump administration is moving to prohibit people from Haiti — which the president allegedly insulted in a meeting last week — from applying for visas for seasonal and farm workers.
The Department of Homeland Security has given notice it plans to prohibit people from Haiti, as well as Belize and Samoa, from applying for H-2A and H-2B visas, which are temporary.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-moves-bar-haitians-agricultural-seasonal-worker-visas-n838581
You’ll never take the punk out of Alf.
I see that Twyford’s housing plans are coming to fruition.
Here, apparently, are 9 houses, all on the one site.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11976734
They are generously sized though. 28 square metres should be enough for anyone it seems.
I wonder if the “affordable” houses they are planning that people can buy will be like these?
Twyford’s?…i think youre somewhat confused.
Forgotten the Transit Camps alwyn? They were around the same size. Back in the 40s, 50s and 60s they were used to house people for a few months while they waited their turn for a new State House. Better than a car don’t you think?
The people making the complaints are jumping to wrong conclusions. Maybe they should do some checking before they go running to the media.
Geez Alwyn clearly a decision made before the election and symptomatic of the last Government’s contempt for poor people. Take it up with them.
Not sure I agree with that ms. Maybe the Nat led government were planning to house them for a longer period, but I’m sure Twyford could arrange to put them to good use as temporary accommodation for those in the most desperate need.
see my comment 6.2 about the use of Transit Camps.
I’m referring to the timeline Anne. To get resource consent an application would have been required months ago unless I am missing something.
Sorry ms. I should have been more explicit. I was referring to the symptomatic of the last Government’s contempt for poor people.
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but it is something this govt. can work with to temporarily house the most needy individuals until more permanent housing has become available.
I thought it might be a good time to point people to the Policy and general culture here around moderation (apropos OM, not this thread). Main point I’d like to make is that once an author gets out the bold pen there is far less leeway involved in the discussion for commenters. This is because for moderators, having to spend time arguing about moderation when the other person isn’t listening or is arguing back or is being an arse is tedious. Most of us don’t have the time or patience.
It’s hard to get people to write here when the community makes things difficult for them. Even more so moderators. Commenters are expendable, authors generally aren’t. This isn’t a kumbayah, everyone has equal rights kind of place, sorry lefties. While there is a very high commitment from the authors to robust debate and creating a place that progressives and lefties and people aligned with the labour movement want to be, there is no doubt that the people who do the mahi of getting posts up so that every day all year we all have a place to read and comment, those authors takes precedent and have a large say in how the place is run.
Personally, I like talking about moderation. I did it a lot as a commenter before I became an author and moderator. I have never been moderated on TS. This is because I pay attention to who is moderating and where *their boundaries are (not where I think they should be). Each moderator has a different style, some are more hands on, others more hands off. It’s worth learning what those are.
I don’t mind people talking about my moderations so long as its respectful and not challenging (that’s going to be context dependent). Asking questions is good too. However arguing with a moderator is pretty risky and some moderators will just ban early on for that. If you don’t want to get banned, then pay attention to what the moderator is saying.
Weka, please could you advise me best way to handle personal insults such as this one from James
https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-17-01-2017/#comment-1437225
It looks to me like he’s arguing political points. He’s being a bit of an arse doing it the way he is*, but basically he’s responded to your comment calling for a boycott of the charities who benefit from pokies by pointing out that those charities not getting money will mean less services for people. There is a political response to his argument, which someone could make.
*so there is an ongoing antagonism from james towards you over the meat thing. I’ll keep an eye on it, and by all means bring anything ott to my attention as a moderator, but in general he’s within the site rules from what I can tell (I certainly don’t read all posts though). The reason he doesn’t get a permanent ban is because TS would be really boring if we banned all the RWNJs and/or people who are arses some of the time.
In terms of strategy, I’ve found ignoring disrespectful people helps, but often you need to put a boundary in place as well. I wouldn’t both arguing with him over it though, because I think that’s why he’s poking at you (to get a reaction). There’s plenty of other people here to talk to 🙂
He has been digging away about me not caring about people with heart problems, Alzheimer’s, then today he went one step lower and mentioned my family.
James hunts for antagonism.
I find him very wearisome.
If there is more than that one comment, feel free to link to other examples.
Yes, lots of people find him wearisome. Maybe the commentariat needs to find a different way of responding.
😆 oh the irony … 😆
[Seriously, you’re in a conversation with a moderator, is flaming really a smart move? Because all I see is an increasing workload for me (and others), when I’m already spending my spare time trying to share with commenters about how things work here. At the moment I’m seeing too many people treating TS like it’s their personal sandpit. – weka]
.
I initiate topics of discussion
To name a few…,,,
Climate change
Alcohol
Plant based diet
Industrial fishing
Waste
Syria
Ukraine
9/11
Socialism
Industrial farming
The negative consequences of neoliberalism
Sugar and obesity
Dairy farming
What James add to the conversation?
Sledging people who post
Abuse
And bragging about his comfortable lifestyle
@ Ed … a good few of us appreciate your posts. So keep them coming please.
Anyone who relies on arrogance, insults and rudeness to get their message across has automatically lost the argument, as seen by one or two posters on this site, with one in particular, failing to contribute to the debate at all. Ignore him Ed.
Thank you for your kind words.
+1
I’m sure Ed tries to ignore the baiting and abuse mary_a but what I don’t understand is why other posters continue to feed the troll.
I initiate topics of discussion…
…and then pack a sad and start bleating about abuse and aggression when people who disagree with you actually discuss the topic. If you can’t handle disagreement, initiating topics of discussion isn’t a good hobby.
But in truth often the person isn’t discussing the topic but merely taking cheap shots. If someone then doesn’t ignore this then it takes the focus away doesn’t it.
+100
“If you can’t handle disagreement, initiating topics of discussion isn’t a good hobby.”
I think this is true, but it’s also true that whatever Ed does or doesn’t do doesn’t excuse the behaviour of others. Not all of what happens here is useful, meaningful or conducive to whatever people think this place exists for. Sometimes people are just mean.
I think that people are threatened by new ideas.
As you are aware, I think humans should be eating a plant based diet.
This quote describes the reaction of many on this site to being challenged to make such changes.
“All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ”
Arthur Schopenhauer
Problem is Ed, while you think that (which is fine, you are entitled to your beliefs), lots of people disagree with you. When we try and discuss that we don’t get very far with you. Again that’s fine, but lots of people are here for the debate and aren’t interested in taking on someone else’s beliefs when they can’t be argued for.
Edit, btw, I appreciate the efforts you have made to change your commenting style here over time. That’s not gone unnoticed 🙂
Thank you for noticing.
Ed it is what trolls do. The best response is to trap them showing how irrational they are by what they say.
Good luck with that micky. Most trolls have thick skin, or scales.
Heads. Trolls are renowned for having particularly thick skulls. I know this because I spoke with a Norwegian once. They don’t have scales. 😉
Tried that. Doesn’t seem to work.
Some are paid to come on this site I sense.
Thank you Ed, I especially appreciate the plant based diet posts amongst others.
Thank you Maui.
I stopped eating meat just over a year ago when I saw this film ‘Earthlings’. Once seen, there is no unseeing it. You suddenly realise how cruel, unnecessary and barbaric meat eating is.
Up to then I was nearly a pescetarian, as had cut down flesh eating because I had become aware of the environmental impact of animal agriculture.
The side effect was my health. When you are a vegan/vegetarian you eat little processed food. So I now eat little sugar and I can vouch for the health benefits of a plant based diet. Read a book called ‘How not to die’ by Michael Greger.
So the three main reasons to stop eating animals.
1. It is cruel
2. It is bad for the planet.
3. It is good for your health.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm7Babs_FJU
We should be eating a plant based diet.
This quote describes the reaction of many on this site to being challenged to make such changes.
“All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ”
Arthur Schopenhauer
Looking at the US, that progression also applies to complete bullshit.
Thanks, I will add ‘How not to die’ to my reading list, there’s some others titles that sound interesting too.
‘Why we love dogs, eat pigs and wear cows.’
‘Vegan Cupcakes take over the world.’
and Vegan Gains is good at explaining the vegan diet too (may contain some adult and bodybuilding themes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miewQbf6PJA
Will look at this tomorrow
Yeah I understand you probably kind of have to defend moderation, but I note that you normally talk about patterns of behaviour, and I can’t see that with RB myself… ug I just hope ya’ll are talking about it in the back end cos I do see a pattern and it’s not a good look for the site I reckon
The pattern I saw with the r-b situation was not about them personally (haven’t looked tbh but there does appear to be some history with Bill), but the tendency for too many commenters to think they can argue with moderation. You really can’t. And for bloody good reasons.
Moderating for behaviour in the community is a different issue and yes we do take note of the pattern of behaviour of individuals.
r-b got a week’s ban. As Lynn would say, that might be educational for them and for others. It’s not the end of the world. People need to stop thinking that moderation is about fairness for commenters. While we generally do try and be fair, in the end it often comes down to what the author needs to do to make it possible for the author to be here not the commenter. This is why I suggest getting to know individual moderator style and err on the side of caution.
Yeah maybe the no argue/appeal thing is an issue in itself, don’t want a bunch of cv’s running the show do you? No cos he ended up banned eh. Tell you another thing- very few people on this site ever admit they were wrong, but RB did
“Yeah maybe the no argue/appeal thing is an issue in itself, don’t want a bunch of cv’s running the show do you? No cos he ended up banned eh.”
Don’t get what you are saying there. CV got banned for a very long pattern of behaviour that caused major issues for the site. He had plenty of chances and blew them. I don’t see how that’s relevant to this situation.
People can certainly ask why they’ve been banned, and ask for it to be reviewed. I think it’s important to understand the difference between that and arguing with a moderator, or attacking an author. That’s the whole point of what I am writing here.
I’m not the first to make the cv comparison, and the relevance, to me, is a pattern, as mentioned above, causing problems, as it obviously is from all the comments in this case at least.
RB admitted fault, apologised, was being very polite in the face of abuse, didn’t actually do what she was accused of as far as I could see, and had her main points ignored by the mod, all in open mike, not even the authors own post. Robust debate? Safe space for woman? Hmmmm.
I’m still not getting it. Are you saying that Bill is acting like CV?
I’ve explained why I think the moderation happened. What is it specifically about that that you don’t understand or agree with? Because at the moment I am seeing a bunch of people saying they didn’t think r-b should be banned but they’re not actually taking notice of the reasons why r-b was banned.
Specifically, didn’t actually do what accused of, as far as I could see.
what accusation?
Are you asking me why she got banned?
No, I’m asking you what *you think she was accused of.
https://youtu.be/fu3iVt54DGs
Okay, “Wow”. You think she was accused of giving up heroin. That’s a…novel take. I’ll give you that. 🙂
Maybe the CV comparison is down to the simple fact that CV submitted posts, comments and links that were not approved of by some.
Just for a moment, put aside that CV drifted off into right wing conspiracy stuff and his problematic approach on some basic issues.
Where are we at in terms of comparison?
Well, it could be something to do with moderation. Except I don’t think I’m far wrong in saying CV never banned anyone. And yesterday’s outpouring from some commenters ostensibly revolved around my moderation of a potentially libelous comment.
So we have some who are happy to ignore or minimise an instances of the site being made vulnerable, and happy to pile into an author and moderator who’s political views they disagree with.
And that, from my perspective, is the sum and total of the comparison to CV – that for some, a level of political disagreement is all that’s required to “play the player and not the ball”.
My “replies” feed is fairly well taken up with the same people repeatedly submitting “drive by” comments and snarky one liners that have had the effect of derailing or killing debate.
And those same people and those same type of comments appear to fairly consistently dished up in response to identifiable political lines coming from a left perspective.
There was an “unfortunate” ‘green light’ given for all of this. But I’ll only talk about that back end or in private.
Meanwhile, maybe some people need to sit back and think on the differences between supporting a labour blog and supporting a sports team.
I hope it hasn’t put ‘red blooded’ off from commenting here because her/his comments are always well thought through and worth reading. In my view, a warning would have been sufficient – but that is just my view.
I also hope rb isn’t put off commenting here. I guess a weeks ban doesn’t seem that bad to me in the scheme of things but maybe I’m just tired.
I think warnings are a good idea but just noting that the comment where Bill did the banning was the third exchange. Yes, it’s good if moderators make it black and white, but Bill did actually explain what he thought was an appropriate response and rb decided to argue with him some more. At the most basic level, that’s wasting moderator time.
The Policy even says it explicitly,
Generally wasting a moderators time is just not a good idea. We’re there to deal with isolated problems. People persistently sucking up our voluntary time won’t like the results.
Fair enough weka. I will try not to fall into the same trap. 🙂
All good (if people frame their comments in ways that are thoughtful or evenhanded, then the moderator can choose to respond or not).
You’re one of the most respectful regulars here Anne. Even when you and I have disagreed strongly I never have the sense that you carry grudges over or that you think it’s ok to attack people.
Thanks for that weka. 🙂
Just don’t mention the name Donald Trump. 😈
This is because for moderators, having to spend time arguing about moderation when the other person isn’t listening or is arguing back or is being an arse is tedious. Most of us don’t have the time or patience.
I totally get that. On the other hand, if a moderator annoys the site’s commenters with arbitrary, ill-tempered authoritarianism, that can also end up costing you time and effort responding to all the annoyed commenters. Some moderators’ styles are more expensive than others.
I’m not entirely sure why authors are automatically given moderation power at all. It’s not necessary and some don’t handle that power well at all.
Sure, let Bill write but someone take the keys off him, please.
“I’m not entirely sure why authors are automatically given moderation power at all. It’s not necessary and some don’t handle that power well at all.”
They’re not. Most authors can only moderate their own posts. Those that can moderate across the site earned that right.
And obviously Bill can moderate across the site. What performance review system is in place for such moderators?
I’m not interested in a conversation where you frame Bill as the problem. He’s not. And I’m finding it increasingly annoying and concerning that some people here think that taking powers off a long time author and moderator is appropriate because you don’t like something about them. As I said earlier, if you don’t like Bill’s commenting style then stay out of those debates and if you don’t like his moderating style then don’t push the boundaries.
In recent years there’s been only been one author whose moderation caused problems for the site to the extent that the other authors felt the need to take action over. That was TRP and he eventually caused problems for the *authors. His moderation permissions were dropped back to Author and he decided to leave (a good decision IMO).
I think Bill is one of the best 2 authors on this site.
I have great admiration for him.
I’ve locked horns with Bill a bit lately, but he definitely walks the walk as well as talking the talk.
He might be frustrated at human frailty, but the keys thing was a bit much, even if it wasn’t intended to be a drunk driving reference.
No. The keys metaphor was only to illustrate the power of authority.
PM, Lyn’s style actually looks pretty efficient 🙂
But I seem to recall that some of the debates about moderation (i.e. substantial threads such as this, rather than a couple of “why” comments at most) here and in other actvely-moderated forums have been more about hats – mods debating in-thread and then moderating, and back again. The moderations get a greater emphasis than the comments from the same person in the debates, or in other cases the moderation might tend towards debating itself, and it can become a minefield for commenters and aggravates the mods.
But then I like hats, so maybe I just have a bias towards hat analogies.
Lynn’s style is very efficient (I learned a lot from him).
The issue about moderating in threads one is commenting is is a particular issue for Bill and myself, who are both full time commenters (non of the other current authors are). I think the problem here is more about history (so each time e.g. Syria comes up we know there’s going to be shit flung around), and commenters being arse’s to the extent they can get away with. Much of my focus outside of the election stuff has been trying to get new authors and make TS somewhere that people would want to write. Far too often the commenting here is a problem for that.
As I’ve just commented in OM, when I see some long threads about how to improve things for authors, I’ll probably take the stuff about moderation fairness more seriously. At the moment it looks like a bunch of people think TS exists for the regular commenters. While I have a great appreciation for the commentariat (I probably wouldn’t write without it), it really has to be balanced against people wanting to write here.
Fair enough.
Well weka – I have to tell you that what I saw today turned me off this site big time. The Standard has been my go to site almost every day for almost as long as the site has been in existence.*
But I have to say that the treatment of Red today was the lowest I have witnessed. I really hope that she ( So I gather from reading R B’s comments) returns. Her comments are usually very sound, and she did apologise for her error.
I have not been commenting lately because I feel the site is becoming an echo chamber for some, and frankly many of the comments verge on the unhinged.
*I remember the original Standard newpaper – it was regular reading in our household when I was young.
Thanks Macro, appreciate your thoughts.
I’m hoping that things will settle down a bit in time.
I’m am hoping so too. We need a strong voice on the Left here in NZ, and it is getting distorted by all sorts of distractions and bickering. It really needs to stop.
Couldn’t agree more.
Well, no we don’t. There is no single “voice” of the left. The left comprises of voices.
And since this is a labour blog, it necessarily needs to accommodate and promote those voices (and more), if it is to live up to its claim of being a labour blog.
Some may see it as some kind of “duty” to shut down, marginalise and extinguish points of view that do not accord with their own, as opposed to genuinely debating (or ignoring) views that run counter to their own.
Such people, to my mind, are wrongheaded and a huge liability in terms of developing and exploring leftist discourses.
“Some may see it as some kind of “duty” to shut down, marginalise and extinguish points of view that do not accord with their own … ”
Oddly enough, Bill, that’s a fairly close description of how your behaviour here comes across to me.
[I’d also like some examples. Please provide three, with links and explanation so we know what you are referring to. Because otherwise it’s just another comment having a go at an Author/moderator. Although I appreciate the relatively neutral way you did it, there still needs to be more than just assertion by implication – weka]
If you can link to instances of me pointedly and/or deliberately derailing a line of argument with smash, or of “piling in” with others on someone at a personal level simply because they hold a given political perspective, or of completely ignoring an argument in favour of sledging someone, then by all means, feel free to provide those links.
Otherwise, your “oddly enough” perception of ‘my behaviour’ is just so much bullshit, aye?
And is informed by…well, what you think it might be informed by if what you say has no actual basis Andre?
moderation note for you to respond to thanks Andre.
Ok, weka, I wasn’t going to bother responding to Bill since it doesn’t appear he’s interested in honest feedback, but if you’re interested in hearing out how things come across to this reader and occasional commenter, then I’ll put the time in.
The first example I’ll use is yesterday’s fiasco with red-blooded. Important context there is that Ken (from Open Parachute) shares Bill’s controversial positions with respect to the Russia investigation, while red-blooded does not. (Ken also shares Bill’s controversial views on the Syria situation, which is also relevant context in that it makes Ken and Bill somewhat birds of a feather). When I first saw red-blooded’s starting comment, it was after the fluoride crap was well underway, but before Bill’s moderating. It was clearly a case of red-blooded forming a mistaken impression based on the look of one page. Based on Bill’s past behaviour and that Ken has close ideological affinity to Bill on this matter of importance to Bill, I guessed that Bill would respond with aggressive commenting and/or moderation way out of proportion to r-b’s error, which then results in r-b defending herself (naturally and politely in the event), which Bill then nit-picked and goaded with further responses to get to the point of justifying banning. And so it played out.
The episodes with Jenny and Syria are another example of Bill appearing to “to shut down, marginalise and extinguish points of view”. That played out over a number of posts, culminating in this: https://thestandard.org.nz/heroes-2/#comment-1299115 Important context is that Jenny claimed to have been in Syria, so had first hand on-the-ground experience. I’ve only briefly passed through Syria, and haven’t spoken much with acquaintances that have been in Syria much more recently, nevertheless Jenny’s comments were in line with the (very limited) information I have from my own channels. From what I could see across multiple posts, Jenny’s only offence was to continue pushing back at the line Bill was pushing, even after threats of moderation. Bill’s behaviour towards Psycho Milt in those same threads also struck me as trying to shut Milt down in the same way.
Sorry, I’ve got a commitment I need to get to (and a crashing computer) so I’ve run out of time to link a third example and unpack why it appears to me Bills behaviour suppresses open debate.
Damn Andre, you’re right! Ken at Open Parachute does have a skeptical approach to western reporting on Syria. I just wish I’d known sooner so I might have read some of his thoughts on it all at the time.
I find it somewhat odd you’re strecthing back to something from over over a year ago ( a year long ban handed down to Jenny), that “someone” said of at the time…
” I’m surprised she hasn’t copped a permanent ban to be honest, but I suspect that it’s because moderators have been cutting her some slack.”
And is this for real you think I’m not interested in honest feedback? Or is it that you know damned fine well there are no examples of me engaging in the type of behaviour listed, and so are doing ye olde “run away” defense maneuver?
I hope not. Because I genuinely want any links to examples you can find. Maybe after your commitment, crashing computer and third example to Weka are all out of the way? That would be appreciated.
thanks Andre. I’m not willing to discuss the moderation issues any more where they’re focussed on Bill (not because of you specifically, just the whole thing has gone on way too long and too many people still seem to think it’s ok to have a go at authors).
I will say that with regards to Jenny, that I have moderated her a number of times for exactly what she was moderated for in your link. She has a long history of spamming posts with her own views that she often uses to derail posts and push her own agenda. She also repeatedly lied about the views of authors. Those things are unacceptable. I won’t let an MRA push anti-feminist lines in a post I wrote about sexism. Just because a post goes up about x topic doesn’t mean it’s a free for all. Authors have a right to protect the conversations under their posts and keep them relatively on topic. Of the active moderators here, all do that btw.
There was a lot of effort to not give Jenny a permanent ban, and as you can see from my comment in the thread you linked to, she was easily the person that took up the most moderation time of any commenter. In the end she copped a long term ban.
I’m giving that context, because I think that your views of moderation are contextualised in your experiences as a commenter in discussions about politics where you differ from a moderator. My views of Jenny are broader and take into account the very things that moderation is here to address – people that can’t work within the bounds of the site and cause problems especially for authors. Moderation of Jenny wasn’t about shutting down debate, it was actually about protecting the debate culture here, and the ability of authors to write without being harassed.
May I remind you Bill that the Labour movement and the power of the Unions was not having many different voices but a united voice and purpose.
solidarity
unity or agreement of feeling or action, especially among individuals with a common interest; mutual support within a group.
Hmm.
There, I think, go the European syndicalists and the OBU of “the states” down the memory hole then (if you’re suggesting unions are linked to political parties). And that’s before contemplating the labour movement as exists beyond just the narrow confines of unionism, and that also contains many revolutionary as well as reformist strands….some parliamentary and some not…and most certainly not all singing from the same song sheet.
But then I like hats,…
Oh god no… my Dad warned me about people like you. When I learnt to drive he told me to keep well away from men in hats. According to him they were all terrible drivers. 😈
Mind you that was an awful long time ago. Maybe they’re better drivers now. 🙂
I have to be a good driver. As a moped driver, I’m almost the squishiest person on the road
Yeah your right up there with cyclists.
Silly question, do you wear gloves? I ask becasue so many in Jaffa land don’t.
I cycle and now wear leather gloves, even in the heat of auckland. I’m looking for some kevler one which don’t look all hard core motor bike.
“On the other hand, if a moderator annoys the site’s commenters with arbitrary, ill-tempered authoritarianism, that can also end up costing you time and effort responding to all the annoyed commenters. Some moderators’ styles are more expensive than others.”
Sure, but it’s always interesting to me that hardly anyone gives Lynn shit about his moderation style.
Basically what’s happening here is similar to what happened to Stephanie. She tried to be fair but to moderate firmly, and got slammed. I learned a lot about what happens here to authors who also comment on the site and moderate. It’s not pretty.
I think Bill is entitled to moderate as he sees fit, even where I disagree with some of his individual moderations (he disagrees with mine too btw, there’s not really any precise consensus on it amongst the authors, although there are broad agreements). He’s the one putting up posts.
And there’s no good reason why the commentariat can’t moderate itself better.
Sure, but it’s always interesting to me that hardly anyone gives Lynn shit about his moderation style.
His reasons for banning people usually make sense to me. The fact that he’s not polite about it doesn’t bother me one way or the other.
What is it about the moderation of r-b that doesn’t make sense to you?
NB: I’m criticising a moderator’s action specifically because you’ve asked me to do it, not because I’m feeling particularly suicidal – please read this comment with that in mind.
Banning someone who’s just apologised for the mistake they made doesn’t make sense to me. What Bill describes as someone making a “false accusation” and “playing the victim” looks to me like someone who’s apologising for an egregious and embarrassing error but also won’t let stand the suggestion that maybe it was a lie rather than a mistake.
1. The original comment was a straight up smear, a falsehood – and exactly the type of comment that can be taken as being slanderous or libelous. (And all mods err on the side of caution with that) – (link)
2. I quite reasonably stated in response to Anne (who had taken red-blooded at their word) that a number of ‘arguably problematic’ comments had been submitted, “… off the back of a mistake or a lie on the part of Red Blooded that would have taken ‘one click and two seconds’ to get to the bottom of. (link)
3.The “apology” was of the common garden “I’m sorry if anyone was offended” variety of apology (ie – not really an apology at all) – (link)
4. Riding in the same comment as “the apology” there were attempts to minimise and/or excuse the smearing by way of attacking Ken of Open Parachute again (essentially and ludicrously equating her fuck-up with the fact Ken had said he hadn’t read “Fire and Fury”).
5. redblooded also decided to isolate the word ‘lie’ mentioned at number 2. and run with some victim nonsense (in bold type) off it within the same comment as the supposed apology.
6. They ran with the “you called me a liar” in a further comment. (link)
7. I’ve been quietly noting that although Anne bore the brunt of my initial somewhat caustic response to the effects of whole fluoride nonsense, not one of the good people so concerned about my interactions hereabouts have seen fit to say a dicky bird in support of Anne or commented that I was being a bit harsh in my reply to her.
8. Having flicked through the list of bans that have landed on people for putting forward falsehoods etc, I can tell you straight that red-blooded got off lightly.
I hope that clears things up somewhat in terms of understanding for you there PM.
I’ve been quietly noting that although Anne bore the brunt of my initial somewhat caustic response to the effects of whole fluoride nonsense, not one of the good people so concerned about my interactions hereabouts have seen fit to say a dicky bird in support of Anne or commented that I was being a bit harsh in my reply to her.
Did you ban her? The answer to that also serves as an answer to why nobody’s had any complaints about it.
People have definitely been complaining about tone, perceived intention, attitude, rudeness etc, not just the actual ban itself.
1. Libellous? Ken’s going to take us to the cleaners? Please. May I suggest in future when you link to Open Parachute you declare your relationship with Ken? I think the vehemence of your original post on OM took many people by surprise.
3. That’s your opinion. RB apologised promptly and quite adequately I thought. You seem to be asking for a much more subservient apology.
7. Seriously, you don’t appear to realise that posters post in fear of a banning when asking questions of moderators about moderation. After warnings from weka to not debate it anymore and your “somewhat caustic responses” – we don’t! No surprise then no one backed her up at that point.
8. RB’s was a hurried mistake. We’ve all done it. RB acknowledged the mistake, yet you still call it a falsehood which is another word for ‘lie’. Channelling James there, Bill.
[I’m now shutting this down too. Please stop relitigating the moderation now. I opened up a discussion about it in the hopes that we could gain some better understanding of how moderation works here. But there has been far too much having a go at authors. It appears that some people still don’t know how to discuss moderation without trying to undermine the author.
I really hope that red-blooded isn’t put off by this because she is a great commenter for the site. It’s only a week’s ban and it looks to me like some people are using this as a reason to criticise Bill. I don’t have the time to keep checking whether people are overstepping the bounds, so I think it’s better just to move on.
General comments about moderation are ok with me personally, but I think that some are struggling with how to do that without telling the authors how to run the site. I suggest we take a step back and focus on other things for a while. My other best advice is that if you want to have less tight or stringent moderation here, start finding ways to make the place better for Authors and Moderators. – weka]
I see. So if you were running a blog and legally liable, you’d base your moderation around defamation and possible defamation etc on whether or not the person being defamed was likely to take action or was capable of taking action. Good oh.
You wouldn’t be lasting long.
The “vehemence” of the original “cut and paste” intro on a double link comment recommending a read? My relationship with Ken? What the fuck are you on about?
_________________________
“Exhibit A m-lud”.
Much ‘losing of the plot’ going on. 😉
Call for national strike in Honduras, from 20th of January.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/hondurasencrisis?lang=en
Video on escalating state violence inside Honduras towards protesters. 10 minute video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waI7-N2UxsE&ab_channel=TheRealNews
Another crony government supported by US capitalism.
PPP’s …..required reading for government ministers
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/18/taxpayers-to-foot-200bn-bill-for-pfi-contracts-audit-office
“The cost of privately financing public projects can be 40% higher than relying solely upon government money, auditors found.”
Yep the Brits have woken up to the fact that PPP’s suck big time and have cost the tax payers billions. The attraction is the apparent initial up-front cost. Take the Northern Gateway – that the Clark govt signed up to. Now a small section of SH1 from Orewa to Puhoi is tolled. (ie uses pay a tax which is collected by the Govt and payed to a private company!) For using a section of the main highway of NZ.
This nonsense can be repeated in almost all facets of Govt service. Hospitals, Education, you name it. I just hope that our current govt takes heed, because enough is enough.
The Herald calls it weird weather.
Rachel Stewart asks if we’re worried yet.
For blogger David Kennedy at Local Bodies, climate change just got personal……
“Obviously I am not a drought stricken farmer, whose economic survival is at stake, but this is the garden that I have invested 25 years into and have planted and nurtured many of these plants over that time. I have done my best to engender a greater awareness of climate change over many years and now that its effects have become super-personal I am very angry at those who I hold partly responsible.
I am angry with the previous government that ignored advice and promoted fossil fuel madness instead (encouraging mining and drilling and spending billions on new motorways.) I am angry with Fonterra for pursuing a high greed agenda that wasn’t sustainable and was largely responsible for the huge increase in methane emissions. I am angry at all those in the US who refused to vote responsibly and not consider our children and grandchildren’s future when they voted for Donald Trump.
Mostly I am worried that we are too late and the climate change juggernaut has built up too great a head of steam to turn around. James Shaw, the new Minister for Climate Change, has a huge job ahead. ”
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2018/01/climate-change-just-got-personal.html
Boom!
(my bold)
To claim that misogyny is a pyramid built upon a silent majority might seem like a harsh indictment, but it is also an empowering one. If men can swallow the confronting reality that their silence is foundational to both sexism and sexual violence, then they get to embrace the inverse reality—that their vocal dissent could begin to destabilise these evils at their base. This counts most of all when there are no women around—I have a feeling the most sexist things ever said about me occurred when I wasn’t in earshot, or even in the room. It counts in the all-male text chain. It counts in the locker-room. It counts when there are no women there to pat you on the back. It counts when there’s nothing in it for you.
https://meanjin.com.au/blog/misogyny-is-a-human-pyramid/
+1
and unfortunately not news to politicised women.
67 comments on Daily Review.
172 comments on Open Mike.
Busy today!
An interesting perspective.
Don’t know what I think about this.
But it it thought provoking.
Geoff Simmons.
“It appears we are being softened-up for a watering-down of Labour’s target on child poverty.
Their initial plan was to reduce the number of children in poverty by 100,000. Their much vaunted Families Package alone was predicted to reduce poverty by around 88,000 (compared to National’s tax cut package with 50,000). But apparently someone in Treasury got their numbers wrong – the number is likely to be a lot lower (they don’t know how much yet).
Depending on how you measure it, there are between 150,000-300,000 children in poverty at the moment. The target of 100,000 looks a long way off, and there isn’t much moolah left in the kitty.
The hidden message here is clear; sorry but this is all a lot harder than it first looked. We are doing our best, but reducing child poverty will take a fair bit longer than we thought.
Of course this is complete poppycock. In Government anything is possible. It is simply a question of priorities. And clearly, like the last Labour-led Government, poverty isn’t as much of a priority as they like to claim it is……”
https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/91657/geoff-simmons-takes-aim-government-its-middle-class-cheerleading-arguing-we-are-being
……whereas I do know what I think about this.
Like Gareth Hughes, I think we should ban rodeos.
” It’s time for NZ to resign rodeo to the history books.
This summer there will be about 33 rodeo events around New Zealand, where animals are wrestled, roped, chased, tied up, yanked, poked and hurt.
Rodeo events include calf-roping, steer wrestling and bull riding, all of which rely on inflicting pain and fear in animals to get them to perform. Rodeos contain deliberate cruelty, such as using electric prods and rope burning, but they also rely on inherent cruelty by exposing animals to rougher behaviour than they’d ever experience on a farm or props such as flank straps provoking distress.
Common injuries include broken ribs, backs and legs, punctured lungs, deep internal organ bruising, haemorrhaging, ripped tendons, torn or stretched ligaments and muscles, broken necks, torn trachea, spinal damage and disc rupture, bruising, and subcutaneous tissue damage…..
One of the worst events is calf-roping, which involves calves as young as three months old fleeing at speed from a rider on a horse. The rider lassos the calf around the neck, jerking it violently off its feet, then dismounts and wrestles the animal to the ground and ties its legs together……
In the past, dog fighting, bear baiting and cock fighting were all considered “community entertainment”, but thankfully our animal welfare standards have improved and that’s no longer the case.
It’s time to resign rodeo to the history books, where it belongs.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/100681296/its-time-for-nz-to-resign-rodeo-to-the-history-books
Yet another article on worker shortages that fails to make a single mention of the pay and conditions on offer.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/100535801/nelson-suffering-from-a-lack-of-hospitality-staff
I know in Murchison the cafes and hotels can’t get staff – they also all pay less than the living wage. Go figure.