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Daily Review 23/08/2016

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, August 23rd, 2016 - 61 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Mike Hosking greed is good2

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

61 comments on “Daily Review 23/08/2016 ”

  1. This may have already been put up when the discussion was first discussed.

    The video South Dunedin History is very interesting. Would be interesting to see the same thing for other areas of this country – looking backward to look forward.


  2. joe90 2

    Reading this has me thinking Saudi Arabia is more likely to implode than reform.


  3. b waghorn 3


    If a farmer accidentally sewerage into a creek there would be an public wailing and nashing of teeth .

    • weston 3.1

      Prob being a tiny bit sensative aint ya wags ?

      • b waghorn 3.1.1

        No skin off my nose mate , I just shake my head at the hypocrisy of councils who let town spills off scot free every time.

        • mauī

          I’m sure I’ve seen a few examples of rural pollution being let off over the last couple of years and Regional Councils not willing to investigate. After all most of our rural waterways are screwed and how many farmers have received punishment for it.

        • gsays

          Hi bw, in respect to council activity/inactivity…
          There is a fellow up north who is paddling round streams filming breaches in the law and presenting it to council, for them to sit on their hands.
          I recall a chief wallah from council mouthing a bunch of excuses, transition to fenced waterways takes time, fines aren’t appropriate, etc.

          No prizes for guessing this council chap was….a farmer.

    • the farmers don’t do it accidentally – just like some don’t break the cow tails accidentally.

      • b waghorn 3.2.1

        From what i’ve seen stock abuse is usually caused by workers who are out of their depth or seriously stressed or both,

        • marty mars

          oh that’s all right then

        • Draco T Bastard

          And the reason why they’d be out of their depth is because weren’t trained correctly – which is the farmers fault. Thing is, the farmer probably does it as well as it’s what he’s been taught.

          • b waghorn

            Excactly plus some arse hole bosses still ring every hour out of their workers leading to them being on the verge of breaking .
            In most cases though i would say the boss isn’t even on the job , he’s probably off being important somewhere.

            • Draco T Bastard

              In most cases though i would say the boss isn’t even on the job , he’s probably off being important somewhere.

              Well, yeah, that too. The delusional idea right at the heart of capitalism that owners do anything of any actual value.

    • Muttonbird 3.3

      You are very defensive on this topic and I’ll try to respect that as far as possible, but surely it’s obvious even to you that dairy farming today uses and abuses NZ’s water cycle way beyond its limits.

      • b waghorn 3.3.1

        I have no problem with hammering serial polluters , fuck if i knew one was doing it i’d dob them in.
        On the river side of things i think they are going to have to develop a stocking rate per hectare rule for each soil type , of course this government has just hired the rowarth woman as their head environmental scientist so i won’t hold my breath.

        • Muttonbird

          Surely it must go further than some sort of soft effluent management like that. What you propose is a limitation of damage rather than a full cure.

          No, it must be that dairy farms show full drainage and septic treatment separate from the natural water ecosystem in any place where runoff enters rivers and underground reservoirs.

          Sounds expensive doesn’t it? Perhaps they could sell one of their Holden Colorados in order to start paying for it.

          • b waghorn

            The only way to go full containment is to go indoors , and i never suggested that stocking rates is the only cure , fencing where its practical is a no brainer.
            I just had a survey from an outfit called Farmax (the do pasture management software) around linking their stuff up to Overseer (they do nutrient management software). So the awareness is growing every day out here.

            • vto

              I think NZ has to go back to being vegetarian like it was before the mammals arrived

              The land can grow plant life supremely well. It is what the soil has lived and breathed. It doesn’t like mammals.

              If we gave up on mammal-growing and took up plant-growing the land would be lush again and so would its inhabitants

              Just like it used to be

              • weka

                NZ could easily support small farming for meat and dairy for NZers to eat in moderation. It’s the export for profit industrial farming that is destroying the land.

                btw, there’s some good work being done by the regenag people using animals to restore landscapes.

                And NZ had large herbivores before the arrival of the mammals.

                The biggest problem we have with mammals in NZ is the bipeds 😉 They’re quite capable of doing industrial export for profit soy and corn, which is what is destroying ecosystems in the US.

                • vto

                  Yes. And of course horticulture provides more production off the same land area, supports more people, etc. Plant-growing is superior in so very many ways.

                  Have said for many years now that NZ’s farmland will eventually turn horticultural – simple logic.

                  • weka

                    “And of course horticulture provides more production off the same land area, supports more people, etc. Plant-growing is superior in so very many ways.”

                    That’s actually a myth. Best production comes from polyculture most often with animals in the mix, as close to ecosystem mimicking as you can get. By best production, I mean growing that increases fertility and still provides a decent yield that meets human nutrition requirements (I don’t mean calories per acre, or how much profit, both models which deplete fertility).

                    Yes, we can grow some food with all plants, but humans are evolved to eat animal products, and some ecosystems do better if you incorporate animals. There is a reason why there are no vegan cultures, it’s very hard to support a population over generations with no animal products.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      “And of course horticulture provides more production off the same land area, supports more people, etc. Plant-growing is superior in so very many ways.”

                      I think vto was probably comparing what else you can do with a hectare of fertile land which is not growing grass for 3 cows.

                    • No hooves please, they are too damaging to our soils. We are not a prairie. Birds and fish provide flesh for flesh-eaters as might small mammals such as guineapigs and rabbits. These islands weren’t mammal-free, btw. We had and still have (barely), bats. . Not that I’m promoting the eating of those little tid-bits. There were a lot of sea mammals too.

                    • vto

                      cheers, yes, the hooves thing..

                      our islands have never adapted to those types of creatures, hence the land’s failure with them now…

                    • weka

                      “I think vto was probably comparing what else you can do with a hectare of fertile land which is not growing grass for 3 cows.”

                      Probably, and I’m pointing out that using that hectare to grow soy instead doesn’t actually improve things. It’s not the cow or the soy plant that is the problem, it’s the mindset of the farmer and the approach being used that is causing problems.

                    • vto

                      Yep you’re no doubt right weka, I was being rather ’round’ in the point being made…

                      and I agree even with horticulture, if you ramp it up with intensive irrigation, spray chemicals all over the whole place, turn the soils constantly, etc etc then eventually you will end up with useless land a-la Sacramento area, and great artesian basin areas..

                    • weka

                      “cheers, yes, the hooves thing..

                      our islands have never adapted to those types of creatures, hence the land’s failure with them now…”

                      We could equally argue that the land has never adapted to humans either. I’m also not convinced that all land in NZ is close enough to its original nature to warrant the ‘soil is not adapted to hooves’ argument. It’s certainly true in some places, but in others that weka has flown the coop. Or moa has bolted. Or something.

                      The problem with the hooved ones, is the sheer number, the bare-pasture approach, and the exporting our fertility model we are using. We could have animals integrated into sustainable systems where they were for producing small amounts of food and other resources for humans locally.

                      If you want rid of the hooved ones, what would you make shoes and jerseys out of? Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

              • In Vino

                vto – the Haast eagles were not exactly vegetarian, and they were here before we ‘mammals’ arrived. Sorry if I am a bit thick.

                • vto

                  Yes I was kinda turning a blind eye to those large man-carrying monsters ….

                  Shame they are no more

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Humans are currently extincting over 150 species of life a day. At some stage we’re going to find ourselves on the list.

                    • Insectivorous too. Let’s not forget insects! Fungi too. We don’t have to be vegetarian only.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Fungi is fine; people from Europe, Russia and China often have a very good eye for edible fungi/mushrooms.

                      Insects…uh…if its got an outer hard shell I’ll stick with clams, crabs and crayfish thanks.

        • Southern Man

          Yes, its going to be interesting to watch how dairy pollution denier, Jacqueline Rowarth, responds in her new role as Chief Scientist for the Environmental Protection Authority. She will have to do a 180 degree turn on her previous position or it will confirm the EPA is a farce. Following the EPAs whitewashing of concerns over glyphosate (Roundup), I’m betting it’s the latter.

    • Armchair Critic 3.4

      The article says the spill was caused by a contractor connecting a house to the stormwater pipes, not the wastewater pipes. I think councils are required by legislation to allow connections to their systems to be made by any idiot who can write the appropriate safety plan, to ensure there is a competitive market.
      I suppose if there was similar legislation requiring farmers to allow any contractor that met a low standard to take water from their oxidation ponds, but frankly that’s as stupid an idea as a free market for contractors who connect up water and sewerage.
      Your attempt at creating equivalence isn’t going to work.

      • b waghorn 3.4.1

        The point is the council didn’t fine the guy responsible , when farmers get fined if their worker messes up,
        Although i did a job in picton once and it appeared every bugger was in each other’s pocket so it’s hardly surprising

        • Armchair Critic

          The council don’t have the power to fine the contractor. They could take the contractor to court, and have the court impose a penalty. Or they could revoke the contractor’s accreditation, clean up the mess, bill for costs (and hope to get paid) and leave it there.
          Either way, it’s quite different to a spill caused by farmer deliberately or by repeatedly failing to act

        • RedLogix

          My first reaction was … what an idiot. Then I paused and contemplated my own modest efforts in the area and thought ‘probably not too hard a mistake to make’.

          I’d argue there’s a difference between a one off, clearly unintentional fuckup by a contractor, and farm management practises that intentionally and structurally, push the boundaries around stocking rates and water pollution year in, year out.

          Or to put it this way, I’d doubt any NZ farmer has been pinged for a one-off totally accidental infringement of water discharge rules, when they have an otherwise spotless record.

        • Graeme

          It’s quite possible that “the guy responsible” could have been the council inspector or consultant who inspected and approved the civil works in the subdivision. Drain layers usually take a good photo record of their work to submit to council, for this reason. Generally sewer and stormwater laterals are built out of the same materials, and right next to each other. Only difference is sewer’s got a red peg at the end and stormwater’s blue. They get mixed up easily and far too often. Usually the white flags in the stormwater give the show away and the cross connection isn’t hard to find. Really surprised this one got as far as dead eels, but cleaning chemicals would do that.

          • b waghorn

            There seems to be a glaringly obvious fix to that problem, make it code that storm water is white pipe and sewer pipe is black.

            • Graeme

              There’s been various attempts to get that in place, but more from a safety perspective, yellow for gas, orange for power and blue for potable water. But not much progress on sewer and stormwater. And it doesn’t necessarily solve the problem.

              Contractors then need to carry two types of pipe, so more cost. Then a bit if the wrong pipe is used, ’cause they ran out, and buried before the inspector sees it, later gets dug up and connected to… Sometimes it really is better to make people think.

  4. joe90 4

    Bloke knocks up his own wee autonomous solar powered boat. It works.

    An older man who has been watching the entire time approaches me and tells me that he’s sorry that I lost control of my boat and that he’s sure it’ll wash up on the beach somewhere. I assure him that the boat is on autopilot, going exactly where it’s supposed to be going. “And where is that?” he asks. “Hawaii.” The look on his face is priceless.


    Three more weeks pass. I’m now standing on the shore at Mahukona Harbor on the Big Island of Hawaii watching SeaCharger enter the harbor. This moment is not as triumphant as it is surreal. I know that this is the same SeaCharger that left California 41 days and 2,413 miles ago, but the faded paint and clinging barnacles only hint at what it must have experienced — and survived — to get here.

    Safely ashore, SeaCharger appears to be in remarkably good shape. After a few dabs of touch-up paint and some reprogramming, I launch it again from Hawaii, this time headed towards New Zealand, 4,400 miles away. That’s a long way, and a million things could go wrong. There’s no way it will actually make it… is there?



  5. Muttonbird 5

    Hosking’s radio show has further lurched into one long paid advertorial and sickly sweet reference to how-good-is-life-if-only-you-could-forget-you-are-a-loser-and-see-it stories.

    All this entertainment now only briefly punctuated with actual commentary on the decisions being made, or more accurately not being made, by the current government.

    This morning he even turned what could have been an interesting piece with the young farmer of the year into a 60 second ad for the fed farmers employment section.

  6. Muttonbird 6

    A frank admission that the Havelock North water supply has been irrevocably damaged by farming practices in the region. The Hastings supply will now provide for Havelock North. How long before the Hastings supply is contaminated in similar circumstances?

    A sad day for NZ as I’m sure there will be many more instances of this kind unless we change the government to one which places water quality higher on the agenda than annual sales at Mystery Creek.


    • mauī 6.1

      May the Tukituki rest in peace and some day eventually recover once we stop meddling.

    • NZJester 6.2

      I’m just wondering how much of a strain the extra draw on the Hastings water supply is going to be and if we are going to see a shortage of supply in what might be a very hot record temperature setting summer coming up this year. Most of the Northern Hemisphere has been experiencing record breaking summer temps and our Winter has been very mild most of the time with some plants coming into flower early this year. There have been water restrictions in the past and now they basically just added a lot more houses to that supply.

  7. Sabine 7

    for those that are interested

    Cross-Party Homelessness Inquiry
    Friday at 13:00–17:00
    St John th of God Waipuna
    349 Woodham Road, Christchurch, New Zealand 8061


  8. James Thrace 9

    Having been in Australia for just two days after a long time away, I am struck by the disparities in economics between NZ and Australia.

    For example, with the dollar being at 95c, we are getting a damn good deal. Buying food for two people for a week of meals, breakfast lunch and dinner cost just $110 aud. The same produce in nz usually costs us $180nzd minimum. We also had to but toiletries as well which makes the difference even more astounding.

    Clothes, another bug bear. 120nzd is 115aud. Yet, the clothes are at least half price. Replacing at least 1/3rd of the wardrobe cost less than a pair of pants and a jumper from hallensteins.

    Nz is poorly served with the cost of living and goods. Whilst Australia gets the bugs and snakes and spiders, heat, weather and friendly people, nz gets dourness, wet, scenery, John key, and a whole dose of misery.

    Something has to change in nz. I love the place, but there is something fundamentally wrong when a nzd wage goes further in Australia than it does in New Zealand.

    • joe90 9.1

      $326,589NZ will buy you this three bed/two bath in WA.


    • RedLogix 9.2

      Agree totally. Having lived in Ballarat VIC for the past three years I’ve mentioned similar numbers here before. NZ is being ripped off.

      Whilst Australia gets the bugs and snakes and spiders, heat, weather and friendly people, nz gets dourness, wet, scenery, John key, and a whole dose of misery.

      I miss the NZ mountains and hills terribly, but little else. The moment we landed here the different atmosphere was palpable. The NZ we’d just left seemed depressed and miserable by comparison.

      Having said that, there are downsides to Aus. After a while you do get sick of being treated as a Permanent Resident for tax purposes, and a Temporary Resident for all others. We came here fully understanding the situation, but it doesn’t feel any better as the years go by. The two nations, while subtly different in many respects, are still very closely tied economically and socially, and yet most kiwis here are effectively reduced to an insulting ‘guest worker’ status by the govt here.


    • Colonial Viper 9.3

      Great to see the trans-Tasman free market hard at work for the people

    • Draco T Bastard 9.4

      Clothes, another bug bear. 120nzd is 115aud. Yet, the clothes are at least half price. Replacing at least 1/3rd of the wardrobe cost less than a pair of pants and a jumper from hallensteins.

      It’s the Delusional Economies of Scale that economists and businesses apply. The idea that if they sell more it costs less.

      Something has to change in nz. I love the place, but there is something fundamentally wrong when a nzd wage goes further in Australia than it does in New Zealand.

      We have idiots in charge – especially those in business.

  9. miravox 10

    The ignorance is strong with this one

    Empire goes for gold

    How to win friends and influence people.

    • weka 10.1

      Is that where that started? I saw the pisstakes on twitter this morning, but didn’t get the original.

      • miravox 10.1.1

        I think so. Someone sent the pic to a Conservative MP (shocked, I am). She posted it.

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