Do you?

69 comments on “Do you? ”

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1. gsays 1

   11 August 2017 at 9:38 am

   this post is akin to a litmus test for where you are on a political spectrum.
   if during reading, “buts” or “whatabouts” or “their choice” arises in your mind- then you are a tory.

   if empathy, compassionn or even anger arise, it is o.k., you are humane.

   fwiw, my vote will be for others, those who are disadvantaged/collateral damage of the current neo liberal regime.
   • popexplosion 1.1

     11 August 2017 at 10:53 am

     It’s worse. National want us all to have e-cars, so they won’t invest in multimodal public transit, the delay feeds into the delay all Neo-lib govts are dithering over, take the UK move too little to late. Give it a decade and massive temperature rise will wipe much of humanity out, all it takes is the sun having a storm in the wrong place and we get extra heat. Yeah, not just the Earth weather patterns, it’s dicing with extinction neo-lib no room to move government.
     • RedLogix 1.1.1

       11 August 2017 at 11:18 am

       National want us all to have e-cars

       Car dealers and real-estate agents make up the backbone of their financial membership. Urban sprawl and over-priced property are bread and butter policies.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 12:37 pm

         Proof, if more was needed, that the profit drive brings about the worst results for society. Completely contrary to the ideology of the economists.
       • Jeremy 1.1.1.2

         11 August 2017 at 4:57 pm

         Do National give out information about their membership?
         • McFlock 1.1.1.2.1

           11 August 2017 at 5:10 pm

           [yawn]
           Should we all save time and start arguing about what “backbone” precisely means?
         • Jeremy 1.1.1.2.2

           11 August 2017 at 5:33 pm

           It’s a genuine question, I’d be interested to know about all the party’s memberships make up if there was some research etc. online.

           Not every question is having a go.
   • Anthony Rimell 1.2

     11 August 2017 at 11:45 am

     To gsays

     +100
2. Carolyn_nth 2

   11 August 2017 at 9:58 am

   Yes, it’s about being part of a movement – a strong movement is harder to demolish than one leader, or even one political party. Build a movement and the political parties, politicians and leaders will follow.

   There’s only one party campaigning strongly for an end to poverty, and for the environment we all live in. One of their leaders has stepped down, others will step up. The leader who stepped down has not gone from the struggle, but will rejoin the broader movement outside parliament: and will be a great asset to it.

   They can topple a leader, but can’t destroy a strong movement that re-groups, shifts, and develops after each conflict.
   • Dspare 2.1

     11 August 2017 at 10:41 am

     +1
   • Bill 2.2

     11 August 2017 at 11:14 am

     Nice ‘dream’ piece by Trotter on that theme this morning 🙂

     http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2017/08/tales-from-possible-future-avenge.html
     • RedLogix 2.2.1

       11 August 2017 at 11:22 am

       I’ve always had respect for Trotter. He’s not popular here, nor is he always right, but his perspectives are always interesting. More than anyone else on the left he brings to the table a sense of ‘where we have been and how did we get here?’
       • AB 2.2.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 1:12 pm

         Agreed – I like Trotter because he writes so well. Such a rare skill that I can overlook the stuff I disagree with. Reading a Trotter piece can be an aesthetic pleasure in itself.
         • Dspare 2.2.1.1.1

           11 August 2017 at 1:22 pm

           Trotter’s writing is good, but this is hardly unique. That it is informed by a solid understanding of historical context, is what makes his work stand out.
           • In Vino 2.2.1.1.1.1

             11 August 2017 at 8:00 pm

             Fully agree.
3. NewsFlash 3

   11 August 2017 at 10:23 am

   You’re just looking at from the outside looking in mate.
4. popexplosion 4

   11 August 2017 at 10:39 am

   don’t whatever you do let those two green mps get on tv to tell us why they really jumped. was it the admitted benefit fraud as most reporters contend or the election fraud which exposed Turei, a fraud too far.

   Being an MP is hard now that any cash from the kids to help house keeping would be fraud when claiming family tax credits. How many MPs have rorted the system! None they are paid too much, and the socialism wasn’t available to them, but they better watch themselves.

   Turei sure is flawed but on these metrics nobody can be a MP or minister if the view of reporters that her benefits history was what did it for her. It was the election fraud, and arguably she would unlikely have gotten so involved in politics, law, had she not be drawn to helping a mate get elected. There’s going to be quite a few angry voters livid at the way she has been treated, many people fiddle their taxes take cash jobs, have kids help with house keeping, even more so given nationals GST rise that we all feel in the shops.
5. Carolyn_nth 5

   11 August 2017 at 12:04 pm

   Marama Davidson, back out in south Auckland at the WINZ office, enrolling people to vote today:

   I’m at WINZ offices, in their looooong lines, getting people enrolled to vote. And getting their vote. I’m dog with a bone. #EndPoverty

   Photos at the link – I like the #endpoverty hashtag. Actually, I’m going with #EndPovertyNZ

   This is followed by Marama tweeting:

   Ooh btw these two Work and Income offices are Manurewa and Clendon. Quotes from people in the lines to come, via my FB tonight.
   • mary_a 5.1

     11 August 2017 at 5:28 pm

     @ Carolyn_nth (5) … seems Marama Davidson is the way forward for the Greens. What a little gem she is, determined to continue the good work of Metiria.

     Go Marama.

     #EndPovertyNZ
     • Carolyn_nth 5.1.1

       11 August 2017 at 7:27 pm

       And, as she promised Davidson’s FB post about being at W&I today:

       It begins:

       Today I spoke to people waiting in the long lines outside of both the Manurewa and the Clendon offices of Work and Income.
       The photo below was supposed to be a selfie with just me and the office door. I don’t like to expose people who might treated cruelly in public.

       But Kataraina went out of her way to run over to me after I’d spoken with people in the line about our Green Party plans to end pov…

       See more at the above link.
       • BM 5.1.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 7:44 pm

         I reckon the Greens are heading for a split, this poverty stuff isn’t what the Green brand is about,

         Greens are an environmental party, first and foremost this stuff Turei and Davidson are doing is diluting the main Green brand and could end up taking out the Green party.
         • outofbed 5.1.1.1.1

           11 August 2017 at 8:16 pm

           The Greens are Not an Environment party first and foremost. Where did you get that from ?
           Here is the charter
           The charter is the founding document of The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand.

           The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand accepts Te Tiriti o Waitangi as the founding document of Aotearoa New Zealand; recognises Maori as Tangata Whenua in Aotearoa New Zealand; and commits to the following four Principles:

           Ecological Wisdom:

           The basis of ecological wisdom is that human beings are part of the natural world. This world is finite, therefore unlimited material growth is impossible. Ecological sustainability is paramount.

           Social Responsibility:

           Unlimited material growth is impossible. Therefore the key to social responsibility is the just distribution of social and natural resources, both locally and globally.

           Appropriate Decision-making:

           For the implementation of ecological wisdom and social responsibility, decisions will be made directly at the appropriate level by those affected.

           Non-Violence:

           Non-violent conflict resolution is the process by which ecological wisdom, social responsibility and appropriate decision making will be implemented. This principle applies at all levels.
           • BM 5.1.1.1.1.1

             11 August 2017 at 8:45 pm

             Nah, that all the Alliance/Anarchist infiltrators that have come in and taken over.

             You guys need to go out and find/start another party instead of fucking up and destroying the greens.

             The Greens ain’t the Alliance, the true Green members need to grow a pair and kick out these green imposters and get their party back before it’s destroyed.
             • mpledger …

               11 August 2017 at 9:07 pm

               You are so obviously trolling. Save your breath for next week when Winston gets stuck into English.
         • garibaldi 5.1.1.1.2

           11 August 2017 at 8:26 pm

           Bullshit BM. Listen very carefully ,I will say zis only once. The Greens stand for two things…A sustainable future and social justice. Surely you can see poverty fits into this?
6. Draco T Bastard 6

   11 August 2017 at 12:34 pm

   First up, poverty isn’t a choice. Poverty is a deliberate and predictable systemic effect of liberal capitalism.

   True but you didn’t need the liberal in there. It’s simply the effect of capitalism. It’s capitalism that produces poverty same as it inevitably brings about the collapse of society through the greed and hubris of the rich.

   Vote for humanity this election.

   QFT
   • Bill 6.1

     11 August 2017 at 1:15 pm

     Not getting into this on this post, but just to explain why I used the qualifier ‘liberal’… although all forms of capitalism or capitalist management produce poverty, social democratic governance/management recognises the need to redistribute resources back to populations – ie, social democratic interventionist policies with attendant notions of equity versus liberal capitalism ‘s ‘invisible hand’ or light handed approach justified by notions of opportunity.
   • Eco maori 6.2

     11 August 2017 at 7:12 pm

     Capitalism is at the heart of all that’s bad in our society we can not keep on living a life of consumerism we have to have a closed loop system everything that can be recycled renewable energy shear resources of our world with everything people and animals all life but the power full people will lose most of there power not being able to flees the sheep for every resource that is need as things will have to be made to last for 20 to 50 years and you would produce your own energy this is the way we will have to live to divert climate change stop shitting in our own back yard or its over for the world we no
7. KJT 7

   11 August 2017 at 1:46 pm

   I don’t think it is necessary to say it is where you are in a political spectrum. It is where you are at being a decent human being! There are conservatives who are. Just as some in the Greens have shocked me with their callousness and lack of compassion.

   As for our so called journalists of, if you can’t find news make it up, persuasion.
   They may as well come out of the closet and don their white pointy hats, now!
   “Lynch mob” is being too kind.

   New Zealand has the wealth and resources to be “The first country to eliminate poverty”.

   And the “First to be sustainable”

   So many people have proven to me lately, they think it is more important to remove a political opponent than listen to their message.

   What has given me hope, though, is the messages from many, here, on Facebook, and elsewhere that there are still fair and decent people in the world.
8. eco Maori/kiwi 8

   11 August 2017 at 2:42 pm

   We are going to vote National out we are asking everyone we meet to vote any one except National way to go Marama I hope the greens get back to 15 per sent after all we have only one planet and we need to change the way we live think about 100 years not just 3
   • Bill 8.1

     11 August 2017 at 4:35 pm

     Who is this “we”?

     And “any one except National” will do what for people in the type of straits mentioned in the post?

     Maybe you need to have a look through the various welfare or social security policies of the parties that come under your “any one but National” proposal and think again.
     • Eco maori 8.1.1

       11 August 2017 at 8:17 pm

       Ok bill I’m not here to debate just to express my opinion and educate the Maori discremernaters to the fact that most Maori do not get treat settlement money and are discriminated by the systems employers and discremernated by class upper class Maori to
       • Eco maori 8.1.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 8:39 pm

         FN phone if a race is put down look down on and discriminated on every level of the system and say we don’t no why Maori are rising in all the bad stats immigrants are looking down on Maori you can lie with words but your body language tells the truth unless the person being observed has been well trained like john key
   • greg 8.2

     11 August 2017 at 7:31 pm

     jacinda is lefting the 9 years of darkness
     • AsleepWhileWalking 8.2.1

       12 August 2017 at 8:39 pm

       Lol
9. eco Maori/kiwi 9

   11 August 2017 at 2:57 pm

   Not National we need a environment people whom think not should try living in space with on environment stop shitting in our own back yard really
10. indiana 10

    11 August 2017 at 3:52 pm

    “Second up, ending poverty isn’t about providing opportunities. Ending poverty is about governments channelling back to people what the market has taken away.”

    So we are really saying is that we need to tax wage earners, so that money can be given to non-wage earners. Why become a wage earner and instead just wait for the government to “channel back what the market took away”?

    The welfare system was designed to help those in NEED, not to create a society of entitlement.
    • McFlock 10.1

      11 August 2017 at 4:15 pm

      When we had a policy of full employment.

      Now we have an economic policy set up to guarantee “losers”, as soon as we get below an entrails-derived “NAIRU” the brakes are put on credit for business expansion until we’re back to 5-8% unemployment.
    • Carolyn_nth 10.2

      11 August 2017 at 4:30 pm

      Beneficiaries pay taxes, too. All benefits are taxed.

      Beneficiaries pay GST on goods and services, and the less well off pay a higher proportion of their income to this tax than top earners.

      And most people who get a benefit have been wage earners at some point in our lives – one day it could be you. We share the cost of misfortunes in our society.
      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1

        11 August 2017 at 8:01 pm

        We share the cost of misfortunes in our society.

        Society is the best, most efficient insurance policy around.

        It doesn’t make a profit that can be dished out to the shareholders though so the bludgers don’t like it.
      • BM 10.2.2

        11 August 2017 at 8:05 pm

        Beneficiaries don’t pay tax because their income is derived from tax.

        The only real way a government raises money is via taxes, the money beneficiaries receive is part of that tax take.
        • KJT 10.2.2.1

          11 August 2017 at 9:39 pm

          Politicians don’t pay tax because their income is derived from tax. Builders working for EQC don’t pay tax because their income is derived from tax.
          Teachers don’t pay tax because their income is derived from tax. Would you like a few more?
          • Carolyn_nth 10.2.2.1.1

            11 August 2017 at 9:51 pm

            Most Crown revenue comes from tax. But some also comes from levies, fees, investment income and from the sales of goods and services.
            • In Vino 10.2.2.1.1.1

              11 August 2017 at 10:29 pm

              Superannuitants are beneficiaries, but pay tax on their Super, don’t they? So isn’t BM talking rubbish?? Superannuitants paid tax all their lives so that they could have Super. They paid big tax on high salaries back then, on that understanding.
              Then some neo-liberal thieves changed the rules, and stole a double-tax off all superannuitants. Now those lying bastards want to lower the amount superannuitants get – the ‘it’s not affordable’ wail.
              BM and his ilk are well-off, and don’t need Welfare Benefits.
              So, being self-centred and greedy, they want to pay less tax, and therefore give less and less to beneficiaries – regardless of any sense of historical or present justice. Ruth Richardson lowered benefits to unacceptably low levels. The gap between rich and poor has now produced an unhealthy society. But BM’s innate greed prevails in his thoughts.
        • KJT 10.2.2.2

          11 August 2017 at 9:41 pm

          The welfare system is simply insurance. Those who can pay premiums do. Those who need the insurance, claim. Doing it through taxation is infinatelyt cheaper.
    • Bill 10.3

      11 August 2017 at 4:38 pm

      You do know the quote you took from the post is just a basic description of social democracy indiana, right? (I guess not.)
    • greywarshark 10.4

      11 August 2017 at 6:16 pm

      Indiana
      You are in need of education about life, the universe and everything. If the site worked on a proper neo-lib economic structure we would send you a monthly account charging you for each ignorant comment you insert into the posts.

      You are the sort of student who lags on their way to school, and argues with the teachers like those USA students who are indoctrinated by their parents:
      innoculated against the disease of new knowledge to enable them to sift through data reaching their brains so they can judge when they are hearing valid statements.
    • Draco T Bastard 10.5

      11 August 2017 at 7:58 pm

      So we are really saying is that we need to tax wage earners, so that money can be given to non-wage earners.

      No, we’re saying that we need to tax the bludging shareholders (the biggest non-wage earners around) and give it back to the workers.

      The welfare system was designed to help those in NEED, not to create a society of entitlement.

      We have a society of entitlement – the bludging shareholders feel entitled to the wealth that others create while creating nothing themselves.
11. eco Maori/kiwi 11

    11 August 2017 at 4:16 pm

    yep the welfare system was designed for the needy but our grate leader Nagta did not want a welfare system as he new it would destroy Maori enterprises and Maori ingenuity
12. Carolyn_nth 12

    11 August 2017 at 4:27 pm

    Jan Logie on Backbenches – vid posted in Marama Davidson’s FB page – [warning] includes David Seymour being pompous.

    -1:48
    Back Benches with Todd Muller MP and 6 others.
    Yesterday at 12:44 ·

    A tough day at the office for Green MP Jan Logie, on Back Benches just over an hour after Metiria Turei’s resignation became public. Here’s her reaction to the news along with our other panelists.

    Basically, the struggle against poverty goes on.
    • Bill 12.1

      11 August 2017 at 4:49 pm

      Hmm. No sound for me, no matter where I open it or whatever.
      • Carolyn_nth 12.1.1

        11 August 2017 at 5:04 pm

        I’m not having a problem with the sound on FF.
13. greywarshark 13

    11 August 2017 at 4:55 pm

    This little sentence shines out its message, to those who are open to receive it.

    Vote for humanity this election.
    • BM 13.1

      11 August 2017 at 7:20 pm

      True, party vote ACT.
      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.1

        11 August 2017 at 8:03 pm

        Act – the most inhumane party around followed very closely by National.

        Both are antidemocratic.
      • Stuart Munro 13.1.2

        11 August 2017 at 8:11 pm

        That would be subhumanity.
14. McGrath 14

    11 August 2017 at 7:22 pm

    Poverty is not a choice to start with, but it is a choice to stay in it! There are plenty of ways to dig yourself out of it. This Maori lad started poor and went through the worst Decile One schools but I got out of it. The key is not to have a victim mentality, don’t blame others and fight the good fight.
    • Draco T Bastard 14.1

      11 August 2017 at 8:06 pm

      Poverty is not a choice to start with, but it is a choice to stay in it!

      Nope. It’s a choice by a few which they inflict upon others so that they can be rich. As Adam Smith put it:

      For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor
      • McGrath 14.1.1

        11 August 2017 at 10:22 pm

        I should still be poor based on that logic though? I don’t remember someone oppressing this brown boy so he/she could remain rich at my expense. No one stoped me getting a student loan for university, nor did they stop me from employment or furthering my career.

        People need to stop blaming others for situations they find themselves in. Governments won’t save you, only your own actions can.
        • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1.1

          11 August 2017 at 11:11 pm

          Anecdotes != information.

          The increasing poverty shows that it’s actually happening despite your denial of it.

          And the government is the people. The problem is that the power has been usurped by the capitalists and they’re screwing things over for their own benefit as they’ve always done.
          • McGrath 14.1.1.1.1

            12 August 2017 at 12:10 pm

            The Government is not the people, nor has it ever been. It’s just a collection of people with little real life experience living in a bubble protecting their own small patch. If you rely on government to fix things, you’ll end up perpetually disappointed.
            • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1.1.1.1

              12 August 2017 at 12:13 pm

              The Government is not the people

              Yes it is. If it’s not then we don’t live in a democracy.

              Of course, what we have is an elected dictatorship rather than a democracy. Perhaps it’s time to change to a real democracy.
            • KJT 14.1.1.1.1.2

              12 August 2017 at 12:15 pm

              If you rely on ‘the market’ to fix things you will be perpetually disappointed.

              Fixed it for you.
    • Stuart Munro 14.2

      11 August 2017 at 8:13 pm

      The key is to abridge the ladder kickers.

      ABRIDGE, v.t. To shorten.
      When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for people to abridge their king, a decent respect for the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
      Oliver Cromwell
      • greywarshark 14.2.1

        11 August 2017 at 10:01 pm

        I didn’t realise that Cromwell had a sense of sardonic humour.
        • Stuart Munro 14.2.1.1

          11 August 2017 at 11:40 pm

          A Mr Bierce – a very reliable lexicographer – states that this is so, and I would not presume to contradict him.
    • greywarshark 14.3

      11 August 2017 at 10:07 pm

      Congrats McGrath. You got all the ducks in a row. Now you can pass on your tips to your fellow Maori and others in the same boat if you think they are worth bothering with. It would be good to spread the words and actions.

      But of course one thing you would say is choose the right way to go, something that you can do that you can be good at, an achievable goal, and then you put the effort in to fight the good fight.
    • AsleepWhileWalking 14.4

      12 August 2017 at 8:49 pm

      Mathematically there are several areas of our welfare system that could be described as no mans land…this occurs when expenses such as rent, medical costs strip cash assets that would be nest utilised earning income.

      Basically the system ensures you lose the ability to leverage yourself out of welfare imho.
15. Incognito 15

    11 August 2017 at 9:46 pm

    23 September 2017.

    It’s just one day.

    Voting is important but it is just a small token action in the greater scheme of things.

    What we do each and every day. What we do to contribute and strengthen humanity. What we feel, think, say, and do to make this world a slightly better place than it was before or at least not worse.

    That’s a disposition towards humanity and being human.

    Awesome post!

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