Does New Zealand need more immigration?

Written By: - Date published: 9:49 am, April 18th, 2018 - 186 comments
Categories: capitalism, Economy, immigration - Tags:

The Australian Federal Treasury has put out a think piece that has come out strongly in support of the government policy of adding 190,000 non-humanitarian migrants a year with a focus on taking skilled workers. They say that level of immigration boosted economic growth, reduced the adverse effects of an ageing population, and lifted aggregate demand through consumption and investment.

I’m not sure where populists who want to really limit immigration go after this.

Bloomberg has previously called this level of immigration “the secret to Australia avoiding a recession.”

Reading through the Australian Treasury report, the parallels with New Zealand are eerily familiar.

Plenty will argue that New Zealand’s social services are too strained as it is to cope with more.

Others may point to New Zealand’s tens of thousand of unbuilt houses, strong economy, low headline unemployment, skills shortages, low capital base, and tolerant and diversified society.

There will be an argument about whether sustained inwards immigration got us through the post-GFC recession, earthquake rebuilds, and dairy price downturn.

Personally, the last two decades of immigration have overall remade this country, for good, and forever.

186 comments on “Does New Zealand need more immigration?”

  1. millsy 2

    No. If the immigration taps were turned off overnight, unemployment will probably fall to zero and wages would shoot up. Burgeious business owners will soon realize that having a shoflifting conviction as a teenager or having a few cones once a month on a Saturday night donesnt make one unfit for milking cows or waiting tables.

  2. Stuart Munro 3

    It seems to have benefitted the self-styled elites. The lower and middle demographics have born the costs. Though statistics and lax enforcement have hidden some of them, it’s immediately evident that for example, the estimated 11 000 overstayers are competing for work and accommodation and similar resources with our most vulnerable.

    It’s for producing nonsense like this that Treasury is rightly reviled.

  3. nukefacts 4


    There’s almost a fetish about this issue in NZ e.g. see MBIE’s web site practically begging employers to bring in ‘skilled’ workers from overseas. And for reference, here’s their top four skilled worker categories:

    Registered Nurse (Aged Care)
    Retail Manager (General)
    Cafe or Restaurant Manager

    and get this, the Labourer category constituted 17.6% of work visa applications in the past year.

    Anyone who dares challenge the orthodoxy of more immigration is instantly labelled a racist by the left! Ridiculous.

    Can’t these fools see that it’s just a scam to increase the National party vote, line the pockets of National politicians for board memberships of e.g. Chinese banks, and drive down wages by importing third world wage rates e.g. Ritchies can’t hire locals to drive buses because their rates are so low anyone local with a brain won’t take the job as they won’t be able to survive, so instead Ritchies lobby the government to include bus driver to become a skilled labour category. Keep in mind it only takes 6-8 weeks to become trained to be a bus driver. Hardly skilled.

    For a dose of reality on this issue I suggest the article’s author read some of this:

    and this:

    In short, the ideology of our idiot-elite political class to force more immigration on NZ has not done anything for improving our economy. And we can all see the unintended impacts of this around us – clogged streets, massive housing shortage, massively overstrained health system, and more and more tory voters. The last thing we need.

    • dukeofurl 4.1

      The Australian numbers seem very flimsy, the economic advantages are firstly strched out over a number of years ( makes it into the ‘billions of $’) and then considering the overall size of the economy isnt even in margin of error of working out what that number is ( $1.2 TRILLION)

      In an economy of $1200 billion per year they can measure something like $1 billion per year ?

      Anyway its not the numbers in immigration of all kinds will go down to zero , just maybe 60% of what its is currently. ( 190K)
      Thats the same circumstance being talked about in NZ.

    • savenz 4.2

      Also might explain all this crashed by trucks and buses and the rate of pedestrian’s being run over.. you know the ‘skilled’ driver shortage needed at $16.50 p/h.

      A quarter of the road toll involves trucks, go figure.

      nothing to do with

      Who knew that you could get skilled people below the living wage – unfortunately it’s showing in all our bad traffic statistics, low wages and tax payers subsiding bad industry practises.

    • savenz 4.3

      The other question is, if the Labourer category constituted 17.6%, how are the other people getting in, a whopping 82.4% are not labour migrants.

      To give an example, I know somehow who came in as a student, got on Tinder, befriended a lonely person who was so obese they were literally house bound and needed a handful of medication daily from anti depressants to type 2 diabetes, they then had a baby together, and then this helped the migrants application. Apparently they were going to deport the student who was now working a minimum wage job, but didn’t because of the baby.

      Now the paperwork is through, the relationship conveniently ‘broke up’ and the Kiwi is on a domestic benefit as clearly the wages were not enough to support a family and the migrant has residency, that they would never have got, without the relationship and the baby at the time.

    • KJT 4.4

      “Skilled immigrants” has been used by NZ companies to avoid paying for training, for decades.
      In my own trades no new trainees have been taken on, by any company I worked for, in thirty years.
      Thousands of entry positions lost to young New Zealanders, in that time. The lack of “skilled workers”is self inflicted.
      Could have been apprentices from Northland, building Christchurch.

      • joe90 4.4.1

        Was NZ industry ever serious about training large numbers?.

        Larger cities and government departments like the NZED, MOW and the P&T turned out hundreds of trades people every year and even the smallest local bodies with their in-house labour trained mechanics, plumbers, chippies, painters and paperhangers, electricians, etc.

        Industry scooped them up but when the Douglas reforms turned the tap off, they struggled on with little intent of training anyone. And now those tradies are retiring or moving on and up, they’re crying immigration.

        • tracey

          They prefer to lobby govt for immigration and more tertiary courses matched to their jobs… corporate training subsidies iow

          • KJT

            If our businesses and managers had to actually be efficient, manage well and invest capital in plant. Instead of being able to make more money by screwing workers, and accessing hidden subsidies like tax payer funded training, immigration and working for families.
            New Zealand would be much better off.
            Our inefficient employers, and managers, have been mollycoddled by Government for way too long.

            On the immigration subject again. Just heard another top job in my area of expertise has been taken by an immigrant. Despite several extremely skilled, experienced, local applicants.

  4. OnceWasTIm 5

    1. No, at least not at the moment
    2. New Zealand is not Australia (thank Christ)
    3. Now that we’ve brought in immigrants in the way we have – i.e. fostering shit education, work visas and various scams, the solution is NOT in penalising the victims of all this … IS to change the the immigration system itself.

  5. Enough is Enough 6

    Immigration is a fantastic thing.

    The vibrancy of New Zealand’s multi-cultural population is one of the greatest things about this place. The flavours, colours, culture skills and diversity that has come from immigrants over the past 30 years is mazing and long may it continue.

    Don’t confuse immigration with the failure of successive central and local governments to plan for our growing population

    • savenz 6.1

      Not only do they is there the failure of successive central and local governments to plan for their selfish growth strategy for low wage business and billionaire passive investors (aka Peter Thiel types) but also their failure to plan whose going to pay for it.

      How can people on local rates afford to pay billions and billions in upgrade costs as well as the profits to Peter Thiel types and the 2 billion in subsidies to the people who need tax payer top ups for their low wages that they pay the incoming migrants because they can’t source them in NZ.

      Then they cut benefits or make them difficult to obtain because it’s the easiest way to save money as well as hiding the strategy by saying 1 hour a week is a person employed.

      It’s all money going out in NZ, not money going into our country.

      Those that say how great migration is for a country often look at places like USA post war. That worked then because it was completely different conditions.

      The difference between 1955 and 2018 is that today the migrants is that there are plenty of cheap flights, tax havens and a million ways to work overseas and pay little to zero taxes here, while being a massive drain on our exisiting tax payers with kids being born, elderly parents needing to be looked after and the worker being long gone, or actually on $18 p/h and needing tax payers top ups.

      Not exactly sustainable and the sort of economic benefit that like the earthquakes in Christchurch look good on paper and get the type of economists that failed to predict the global financial crisis excited, not so good when you go to pay for the social costs of the practise as evidence in our declining levels of living standards through the OECD.

    • OncewasTim 6.2

      And also don’t think it OK that because a number of immigrants who’ve been subjected to NZ immigration policy that’s allowed exploitation in its many forms are less entitled to some form of redress than their Koiwoi counterparts.
      That’ a BIG reason we don’t get anywhere in terms of wages and conditions or any other measurement.
      Many seem to have succumbed to the old divide and rule mechanism.

    • andrew murray 6.3

      @Enough is Enough.

      While I can’t lay my hands on this statement now, I read it while completing an MA in Sociology some years ago.
      It was by Slavoj Zizek and was to the effect that, immigration is the greatest tool of the capitalist elite.
      This is how we need to view current immigration purposes and the identity politics that protect them from challenge. I don’t mean this as an affront to you but your delight in a colourful diversity is a nonsense when it’s purpose is lower wage costs and to deprive our own young people of a future.
      There is a far bigger far more nuanced strategy at play throughout the west and we aren’t intended to be on the winning side.

    • dukeofurl 6.4

      “The flavours, colours, culture skills and diversity …”

      So you see migrants as a human zoo to be marvelled and amazed at rather than real people who want a better life and bring skills we need?

      The National geographic and Eurocentric view of the world.

      • Enough is Enough 6.4.1

        You have made a big assumption there that I am of European descent.

        I see migrant as a human zoo?? What a bizarre conclusion.

        Your criticism of me referencing skills is even more bat shit crazy when you look at the last 5 words or your second sentence.

        No I see immigrants as bringing diversity to what was previously a very Eurocentric society. I am sorry that you can’t embrace that

        • ropata

          I see it as fracturing a formerly cohesive society into competing ethnic groups and fostering tribalism. There are limits to diversity. Especially when vast numbers arrive from an alien culture and have little chance to integrate because it’s easier to stick with your own kind. Hence we have a plague of horrible driving, mindless stripping of seafood resources, exploitation of employees, and a breakdown of trust.

          Trust is a really big deal for building a successful nation. We used to be able to trust our builders. It used to be an insult to ask a tradesman to quote a price for his work – it was assumed he would work to time and materials and give you a fair deal at the end. We used to leave our doors unlocked and let our kids walk to school.

          Fuck this endless growth bullshit.

          • Wei

            Hence we have a plague of horrible driving, mindless stripping of seafood resources, exploitation of employees, and a breakdown of trust.

            ‘Horrible driving’? –Asians, who you are obviously referring are not overrepresented in driving that causes death or injury –in fact are vastly underrepresented —look at the MOT stats.

            “mindless stripping of seafood resources”? Where’s your evidence that immigrants (Asians that is) are more responsible for this than anyone else?

            “Exploitation of employees” –a lot of this is carried out by unscrupulous kiwi employers in the horticultural or dairy industry. Definitely need stringent laws here. But don’t blame the exploited migrants. Blame the employers, and also the unjust world economic system that forces people to move to strange countries and endure racist hostility to make ends emet

            “A breakdown of trust” ???? On whose part? All studies show that Asians are that part of the population with the lowest representation in almost every single crime category one can imagine, the exception being crimes related to gambling.

            “We used to leave our doors unlocked and let our kids walk to school. “ What the fuck has that got to do with migration. Never heard of an Asian migrant assaulting a local born kiwi kid on his or her way to school. On the other hand a lot of Asian migrants have been bashed by local born kiwis.

            • ropata

              I was talking in generalities, but you must have a guilty conscience because you brought Asians into the mix there.

              • Wei

                Of course you are thinking of Asians.

                You wouldn’t give a shit if they were white.

                Biggest immigration boom in NZ was post war with heaps of English and Europeans coming here, often on assisted passage.

                Fuck you are one dumb piece of shit (btw moderator – go through the threads —he started calling me names first)

                • ropata

                  You have zero appreciation for what NZers have lost due to 35 years of shockingly irresponsible neoliberal growth dogma.

                  A safer land, where children were free to cycle or walk anywhere. Where you could go fishing and usually catch something decent. Where you could swim in clean rivers. Where we didn’t have hordes of campervans crapping on our loveliest tourist spots. Where you could work on minimum wages and buy a house and start a family.

                  All gone because of greed. And people like you think it’s racist to want a future like that for our kids. Thanks for nothing.

                • KJT

                  Didn’t like the class warfare and snobbery they bought with them, either.

                  • Wei

                    You are referring to the English and Boer migrants?

                    • KJT

                      Back then, English, not Boers. We owe our disfunctional industrial relations, onboth sides, to them. Yes. But I don’t like the modern Chinese attitude to fairness , wealth, and social welfare either. Though the Chinese solution to excess intergenerational wealth in recent times was successful, it was rather drastic.

                      Maori can tell you the effects of having your culture swamped by excessive immigration from another culture. As can Southern China.

                    • tracey

                      Well said KJT

      • Wei 6.4.2

        “The flavours, colours, culture skills and diversity …”

        No doubt that NZ has improved because of diversity. That is the point. What’s wrong with making that point?

        • ropata

          Shame that nobody thought about their infrastructure demands, healthcare, education, extra police, or environmental impact. All these diversity advocates are really after is $$$

      • savenz 6.4.3

        +1 dukeofurl

        Often the ‘diversity’ apologists have no idea of the caste system in India, or female infanticide in China, or there is no welfare system there, it’s absolute competition and survival of the fittest. Possible why a huge majority vote National once coming to NZ.

    • Janet 6.5

      When you mix all the colours on a palette together you get grey.
      I rather see them in full colour in their own countries thank you.
      I choose maintaining the quality of life and living in NZ over chasing the mirage of wealth.
      I prefer we leave plenty of space in our country for our own generations to come.

      • Wei 6.5.1

        I choose maintaining the quality of life and living in NZ over chasing the mirage of wealth.

        There are around 1 million Kiwis (proportionately speaking more than any other group of people in the world) living overseas ‘chasing the mirage of wealth’

        • Stuart Munro

          In many cases because of the destruction of their legitimate paths to success in their own country.

          • Wei

            Provide an example

            • ropata

              1 million examples. Stagnant wages, fewer jobs, skyrocketing housing and other living costs. And until recently a systemic denial of the problems facing the poor of NZ, and inequality getting worse.

            • Stuart Munro

              900 foreign workers a year = no career paths in the fishing industry.

        • savenz

          There are around 1 million Kiwis (proportionately speaking more than any other group of people in the world) living overseas…

          it’s hard to pay back that student loan when some of us had it compounding daily at 11% and the average wage here is $20p/h.

          But many Kiwis will come back one day, so they are not migrating they are chasing legitimate work overseas and will not be a burden on that country they work in by retiring there. (plus they will be paying super there, anyway in most cases).

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury

            Compounding daily at 11%?

            I think you need back yet another of your wild assertions up with a shred of evidence

            • savenz

              That was what we were charged in the 1990’s. Spent 5 years at uni and my student loan had doubled in the first year I was able to work.

              The Labour government ‘eventually’ decided that you did not get charged interest while studying (and won the election that year) but in the early 1990’s that was what they did, compounding daily interest. Interest rates were very high on student loans (market forces), not the 5% they are today.

              • savenz

                From 1999 Student loan documents

                • Tertiary education policy since 1990 has required students as private beneficiaries to pay more of the costs of their education. Weighted average university fees increased 961% over 1990 ñ 1995 (in 1999 dollars).

                • In 1998/99 about half (49.7%) of tertiary students had student loans, up from 39.6% in 1994.

                • The interest rate charged for New Zealand student loans is considerably higher than in other income-contingent student loan schemes overseas, but comparable to mortgage-type loan schemes.


  6. Cinny 7

    NO. Unless they are refugees or to employ in sectors where there are skill shortages etc

    What we do need is more free tertiary education, to skill the current population.

    We need to slow things down until our current infrastructure and housing are sorted. We currently can’t sustain so many people coming into NZ.

    I love the diversity of our nation, we just need some time to catch up.

  7. Tamati Tautuhi 8

    We need more housing, hospitals, schools and infrastructure before we bring in more noodle eaters and curry sandwich consumers ?

    • ropata 8.1

      Sorry bro. NZ is for sale to the global elites. Most Kiwis seem to be OK with that.

      • savenz 8.1.1

        Agree with most of your points Ropata, apart from disagree with

        “NZ is for sale to the global elites. Most Kiwis seem to be OK with that’

        I think Kiwis are being ignored and don’t want NZ to become run by a global elite.

        Similar to all the companies operating together under the Cambridge Analytica umbrella (currently under investigation in particular for Brexit result and electoral overspending and fraud) NZ now has a similar thing happening where all media is effectively being engineered to the same tune such as immigration is great, banning foreign buyers is bad, we need all these low paid migrants because Kiwi workers are hopeless losers, etc, etc. Our media is run by overseas interests, and the balance between advertorials and advertising has been absent for years.

        Auckland council and all their COO’s have similar strategy, they all sing from the same tune while pretending to be independent. That is also why we have such a massive problem with transport and planning in Auckland, and more money to them is not going to solve anything because it’s the organisations themselves full of fiefdoms and people out of control, that is the issue.

        Like Fletchers, management have lost control at the Auckland council and AT and don’t have a clue what is going on and any reports are worthless because it’s being run in ‘ministry of truth’ style, propped up by private lawyers at the trough to keep any bad news at bay.

    • Wei 8.2

      And we also don’t need any more white south African crackers

      Hopefully we will see a massacre of those racist Boers

      If that does happen I hope the NZ navy machine guns them in the water before they get their white asses to the North Shore – -how about it eh????

    • Wei 8.3

      btw in Mt Roskill near where I work, the local noodle houses seem to be crammed with Pakeha and Maori customers slurping their noodles and eating fried rice as much as Chinese.

      Curry sandwich? Never heard of that. Where can I get one?

      • ropata 8.3.1

        At least they are legal citizens unlike a large swathe of new arrivals who snuck in the back door by student visa scams or pretending to start a business. Or even worse those who arrived with suitcases of cash and are now parasitical landlords or communist spies in the National party caucus.

  8. savenz 9

    Also funny how the Mycoplasma bovis originated in the South Island. Maybe getting so many cheap overseas workers has it’s down falls for the economy with the spread of disease as workers go backwards and forwards between countries with all the bio security issues that involves? No mention of how that disease and others are suddenly appearing in isolated locations.

    • joe90 9.1

      No mention of how that disease and others are suddenly appearing in isolated locations.

      The likely culprits are imported bull semen and piss poor compliance with the NAIT scheme.

      But hey, those migrant farm workers are mostly brown, so blame them.


      • savenz 9.1.1

        Whether it is imported bull semen or contamination from farm workers or something else, it surely should be investigated as the taxpayers are paying 60 million in compensation to the farmers no question’s asked and MSM doesn’t bother to find out where it came from and a bit of a blank area in the news. Surely the first thing is to warn of the outbreak and find out where it came from to stop the spread!

        Clearly in terms of economy NZ is not learning much from the PSA bacteria costing $800 million,

        • joe90

          compensation to the farmers no question’s asked

          Compensation is mandated.

        • Bewildered

          “Whether it is imported bull semen or contamination from farm workers “

          What are these farm workers doing with our cows ?

        • Bewildered

          “Whether it is imported bull semen or contamination from farm workers “

          What are these farm workers doing with our cows ?

        • OnceWasTIm

          you’ll probably not get to see this comment @savenz, because tomorrow’s open mike is yesterday’s fish n chup wrapper, however
          the irony is that those that saved us from the potential devastation of the PSA bacteria (actually I thought it was a virus) were predominantly bloody immigrants.

          • savenz

            Were any of them a

            Registered Nurse (Aged Care)
            Retail Manager (General)
            Cafe or Restaurant Manager

            (the top 4 ‘skilled’ categories of migrants)

            I’m not against proper ‘skilled’ migrants just the scams of paying $20k for a job in a restaurant to get residency and taking away opportunity to give the many students with massive student loans a chance to get work and compete against other business owners who use non exploited labour.

            • OncewasTim

              I’m in agreement with you re the scams et al.
              And that’s why the only way things will get solved is if we target the perpetrators of scams, shoddy education courses and buying residency, etc rather than further punishing the victims of it all.
              The last nine years has turned immigration into a business-a lucrative one for the arseholes of this world.
              And it’s been at the expense of workers, education standards,etc. AND the victims of scams enabled by the system we’ve implemented.
              Time to unpick it all.
              And not by way of implenting some Peter Dutton reality TV type butch dawn raid Border Force

    • Keepcalmcarryon 9.2

      Actually savenz, this recent article was veeeery interesting although still heavy on hearsay, poor choice of headlines also, not sure it’s actual vets being blamed or companies importing animal products:
      Free importation market and poor biosecurity all the same.

      it’s rumoured that Southland is actual ground zero, not Otago/canty which further implies MPI might have a fair idea on what has occurred.
      Certainly hope so. Everyone is unanimous in wanting the book chucked at the culprit/s

  9. Siobhan 10

    “There will be an argument about whether sustained inwards immigration got us through the post-GFC recession, earthquake rebuilds, and dairy price downturn”

    ……and whether ‘sustained inwards migration’ helped keep wages down, rents up and increased job insecurity…

    Of course none of this is the fault of the immigrants, its all down to the desire to exploit with no shame or sense of decency and fairness that apparently drives our so called economy these days…

    • OncewasTim 10.1

      See above also.
      The situation for many immigrants (overstayers included) is dire, and there quite a few I know who’d LOVE to ‘self deport’ if only they could save enough for the airfare and recoup the money they’ve been conned into spending on expensive shitty education.
      Again, target the exploiters, not the victims and we’ll soon find immigration levels reducing

  10. McFlock 11

    190k/20mill is well under our current immigration rate of 70k/4.5mill (0.95% vs 1.5%). Literally every single number ther except the 190k is from rough memory, but the proportions shouldn’t be too far off.

    But yeah, long term we’ll need substantial immigration to offset the aging population.

    Personally, I’d take more refugees and asylum seekers than voluntary migrants.

    My concern with the “we don’t have the infrastructure” argument is that as soon as we take the pressure off the infrastructure, the pressure to develop it in the short term also goes off. So we end up with lower immigration and infrastructure that ages as quickly as our population.

    • Cemetery Jones 11.1

      Hard to say. Even leaving the infrastructure issue aside, given the trend both here and in the rest of the developed world with youth unemployment, increase of automation, etc. I’d wonder whether we do actually need substantially more or just more well targeted to skill necessities.

      • McFlock 11.1.1

        The real issue over the next thirty years is whether we take the richer lifeboaters or people in immediate need.

        • Cemetery Jones

          What would your parameters be for immediate need?

          • McFlock

            Well, my figuring would be the nabobs and mandarins in ministries should calculate how many we can handle in relation to infrastructure development, and prioritise say 66% to be refugees.

            • Cemetery Jones

              I’d be thinking more like 40% at most, but overall like the idea. And I guess that could be part of their brief, looking at for example what the load might be on schools with ESL teaching requirements etc. That itself could prove to be an expanding field within the conventional education system which would be good for employment.

              • Stuart Munro

                I’d like to see an aid-like carve out for some of our Pacific neighbours too. They need some support, and other countries are not generous to them.

                • Cemetery Jones

                  Yes, that could be a good idea – there’s a real risk of the whole region being sucked into the wake of US-China geopolitics.

                • savenz

                  Since our Pacific neighbours are less dense, why don’t they offer their ‘generosity’ and take more people. If that is the argument you are taking.

                  Funny enough, I’m pretty sure migrants are less keen on going there.

                  The reality is, that people like to live in NZ on low wages because it is a welfare state and unlike many other countries in the world we have free health care and superannuation and the other taxpayers top you up.

                  Sadly those are not really sustainable if we get a lot of people coming to this country on $16.50 p/h with aged parents needing support.

                  Or give away passports to Peter Thiel types who buy up land and then take off after making millions in a taxpayer helped ‘sweetheart deal’ for a one off investment and their application promises not kept.

                  But hey, who needs the practical pointed out.

              • McFlock

                I’m not too worried about the percentage – I just think that people in more serious need due to war or climate change should get preference over middleclass flight.

                Bear in mind that lots of refugees bring their own skillsets – not just new foods, but also doctors, professors, people with different perspectives on solving architectural problems, etc.

                The real strength immigration brings is diversity in perspective, knowledge, and approach.

                • Cemetery Jones

                  In migratory contexts, ‘middle class flight’ is usually a construct peddled by middle class socialists who incorrectly believe themselves to be middle class social democrats. I say that in the spirit of Orwell’s observation that these people tend not to be attracted to socialism and socialist rhetoric out of a love of the poor, but out of a hatred of the rich. Not that I don’t understand, I’ve certainly been there in my younger days, and I still have my moments now and then.

                  Rich people like Peter Thiel often give me those moments. Rich people like Thiel also provide some confirmation bias in this regard, because they tend to engage in flight *from* things in their migratory behaviour; his NZ citizenship is a prepper’s insurance policy rather than the lifestyle consideration he presented it as. It’s a luxury purchase. And it adds nothing to us, and should not be upheld. Thiel and James Cameron, I would argue, obtained their citizenship under false pretences, and should be stripped of it.

                  Middle class migration on the other hand tends to be a *movement towards* opportunity rather than *flight from* conditions. The question is, are the opportunities they seek beneficial to us? If they’re here to buy houses with superior overseas incomes and savings, and support this by competing with our skilled graduates in the job market using their superior overseas experience, then I’d want that experience to be in building or creating something we can’t currently build or create, rather than just find out we’ve got another British marketing executive or brand manager among our ranks, or that another Chinese housing investor has dropped National some sweet bank in exchange for the ability to buy a couple houses as an ‘investor plus’ or whatever.

                  • McFlock

                    Unless they’re middle class in, say, South Africa in the 1990s. Or some folks from the US in the 1980s (not super-rich, but worried about Reagan). Then they might well be using their modest wealth and privilege to run and leave the less fortunate.

                    So my perspective is to just take the less fortunate.

                    • Cemetery Jones

                      Yes, no doubt there have been some middle class migrants who might fit such pessimistic criteria. Probably not anything like the majority though. Plus, they’re more likely than the ‘less fortunate’ to be in a position to support themselves upon arrival, which makes it sensible to put the ratio slightly in their favour and ensure we have the means to help the ‘less fortunate’ become more fortunate. After all, there are many communities in the western world where refugees have been dumped off in the middle of nowhere, basically becoming the left’s Christmas puppies.

                    • McFlock

                      Very true.

                      My theory though is that as climate and geopolitical stresses increase we’ll be seeing a lot more migrants who can see the writing on the wall and get out early. They might bring capital, but they when we need builders rather than bank managers I’m not sure whether they’ll be any more useful than a sample of the equivalent number of refugees.

                      Refugees might involve more initial work, but we actually already have a structure for effective support already, and we can scale that up rapidly. Frankly I think we should be bringing in at least ten thousand a year, from all over. And if that has to come off the top of long term migrants, I’m not too worried.

                    • Cemetery Jones

                      Agree with that for certain, we’d need to seriously upscale services, accommodation, ESL, etc. to prevent making the same mistakes as Britain, Germany, Sweden, etc. have made.

    • nukefacts 11.2

      Interesting issue here- my understanding is we don’t have an ageing population at present, rather it’s more heavily weighted to 18-35 age group.

      This is a key thing in the immigration debate – there don’t seem to be very good, up to date, reliable stats about the movements of the different types of immigrants, study visas etc. E.g. MBIE drag their feet releasing migrant job classification data when it’s just administrative work nothing hard to do. And the previous government deliberately fudged statistics on overseas purchases of property in NZ to try and damp down negative sentiment.

      Most people are talking about immigration blind to these statistics.

  11. Lara 12

    NO and NO.

    When will it end? What population density would we like to end up at?

    Our birth rate is now just below replacement rate, and so our population is only now going to grow through immigration. We have the opportunity to control the population density here in NZ.

    But I don’t see any discussion here in NZ on population density. No discussion on the pressure on our remaining wild spaces, our forests, beaches, lakes, rivers.

    And if one wishes to bring up the topic one is quickly labelled racist.

    It’s not racist. It’s simple math. But then, most people have little understanding of math.

  12. andrew murray 13

    Sorry I meant to post this here not above…

    @Enough is Enough.

    While I can’t lay my hands on this statement now, I read it while completing an MA in Sociology some years ago.
    It was by Slavoj Zizek and was to the effect that, immigration is the greatest tool of the capitalist elite.
    This is how we need to view current immigration purposes and the identity politics that protect them from challenge. I don’t mean this as an affront to you but your delight in a colourful diversity is a nonsense when it’s purpose is lower wage costs and to deprive our own young people of a future.
    There is a far bigger far more nuanced strategy at play throughout the west and we aren’t intended to be on the winning side.

    • savenz 13.1

      If you find the article I’d be interested in reading it. Tired of all the cliche discourses, like diversity that the Idiot Intellectual class liberals love to tout because they have no other reason for their views which even a decade ago under Helen Clark there were immigration standards like a language test and basic provisioning of immigration criteria to stop our country going down the toilet.

  13. AsleepWhileWalking 14

    Hell no.

  14. ropata 15

    If the liberal Wellington twitterati cared to visit some of the suburbs of Auckland they might rethink their enlightened mass immigration policies.

    The Chinese flag is flown in the wealthy suburbs of the North Shore and East Auckland. This is economic colonisation (but politicians can’t resist the GDP juice).

    The future of native born Kiwis is being stolen from them as all the land and houses are snapped up by wealthy immigrants. The wages and conditions of poorer working Kiwis is driven down by a huge pool of imported labour who will work for peanuts and we have disturbingly frequent reports of exploitation by unscrupulous employers.

    The economic elites, professional classes, and established Boomers have made record capital gains through zero effort, while everyone else has borne the cost.

    Mass immigration is a Ponzi scheme by the selfish and short sighted (not to mention the long term ecological unsustainability of infinite growth).

    Immigration NZ has been doing a difficult job and all they get is abuse and accusations of racism. Immigration policies have been corrupted in this country. Screw immigration. It’s just another theft of our taonga by barbarians.

    • Keepcalmcarryon 15.1

      Well said

    • Wei 15.2

      The Chinese flag is flown in the wealthy suburbs of the North Shore and East Auckland

      What fucking bullshit – can you snap a picture and post it.

      Note that you choose to pick on the Chinese, but not racist white South African migration – go to Brown’s Bay on the North Shore, and see how the Boers have colonised that part of Auckland

      The reason why people migrate is 99% for economic reasons. They go to the parts of the world where their labour can get the biggest bang for their buck. That is why New Zealanders use to go to Australia, and in some cases still do.

      Different parts of the world will fetch a different amount for the same hour of labour. The main reason for this fundamental unfairness is Western imperialism.

      The fact is all New Zealanders have benefited economically from being part of the imperialist West for almost two centuries.

      The imperialist West pauperized Asia and Africa for centuries. That is why “imported labour will work for peanuts”. Because the Western elites fucked them up over in their own countries even more than they fucked things up over here.

      What working people everywhere should do is support the rise of non-Western countries who will fuck up the West, and hopefully destroy them, in the political sense, and the creation of a just world order that benefits all peoples of the world.

      • ropata 15.2.1

        You want NZers to immolate themselves. Piss off traitor

        • Wei

          So are New Zealanders, both Pakeha and Maori, or indeed of any other stripe, ‘immolating’ Australians because they move across the ditch in droves in search of a better life?

          • ropata

            No, Australia as we know it is in the process of destroying itself with unsustainable levels of immigration that benefits only the elites and wrecks society for everyone else. A demographic and ecological catastrophe is coming.

            • Wei

              So you agree that Kiwis moving to Australia are part of the problem and ‘wreck society for everyone else’?????

              I’m pretty sure that New Zealander’s are, proportionately speaking, more likely to move around the world in search of better economic opportunities than any other group of people in the world.

              At least 1 million New Zealanders live overseas!

              To be consistent you should advise all Kiwis to remain in New Zealand and never move offshore to make a better living on the global labour market, while shutting the doors to all from coming here.

              That would be a morally and logically coherent position, but one I think that would be unpalatable to most New Zealanders.

              • ropata

                Why are you anti Kiwi? What an egg.

                • Wei

                  What are you?

                  A dumb cunt incapable of a single shred of logical thought.

                  • ropata

                    I am pro NZ nationalism and think Australia should do the same. No inconsistency there. But for some reason you want to screw NZers both ways. Why is that? Big chip on your shoulder.

                    • Wei


                      Fuck you are low IQ.

                      Read what I have written. Slowly.

                    • ropata

                      Yes I did read your extremely biased comment. So what, heaps of Kiwis live overseas. That doesn’t mean those of us here in Aotearoa have to open the borders and embrace the global communist revolution.

                  • Gabby

                    Are you sad that you couldn’t provoke an anti Chinese racist outburst Weisie? Never mind.

                    [Are you saddened that you just got banned for making inflammatory comments when so many others got away with it yesterday? Never mind.] – Bill

              • Pat

                unpalatable to many…whether most may be debatable, however the Aussie gov have made it pretty difficult for kiwis in oz the past decade or so….certainly harder than the NZ gov has made it for immigrants to NZ.

                A large(r) population and/or growth is no guarantee of economic success but certainly is a guarantee of resource depletion and environmental decline.

                • Wei

                  whether most may be debatable, however the Aussie gov have made it pretty difficult for kiwis in oz the past decade or so….certainly harder than the NZ gov has made it for immigrants to NZ.

                  How so? Can you provide a comparison

                  Too small a population means you get inbreds with no technology and no culture and no civilization. You need a certain number of folk to make any place interesting and provide for specialist services and a market for innovation.

                  • Pat

                    dont think theres much risk of inbreeding with approaching 5 million…though inbreeding can occur irrespective of population size.

                    as to interesting places we have plenty …. specialist services , maybe but then thats what trade is for.

                    What the world lacks is environment for life other than humans…we by an accident of history have maintained more than most…why fuck it up?

                  • Stuart Munro

                    Gosh – a veiled claim of genetic superiority – how enlightened.

    • Janet 15.3

      Agree Ropata , and let’s chop down the flags!

      • Wei 15.3.1

        You’ll have to find them first.
        Ropata should snap a pic, and link to it.

        Problem is he won’t be able to. He is a lying piece of shit.

        • ropata

          Eye witness to both Chinese and Saffer flags flying in North Shore suburbs. Not sure why such people are NZ citizens TBH

          • Wei

            Link to the Chinese flags please. Or are you full of shit?
            I’ll return in a couple of days to see the link.

            You throw in the South Africans to try and appear fair and balanced. Hahahahaa —after I called you out on it!

            • ropata

              South Africa isn’t currently engaged in a one sided campaign to buy the National Party and exploit the fair go culture of NZ, so there’s a difference

              • Wei

                “exploit the fair go culture of NZ”

                So white South Africans are into ‘fair go’, but not Chinese?

                BTW I’m not talking about South Africa – the government there is on the right track, and pro China, as is most of the devleoping world

                I’m talking about those racist white cracker Boers who can’t stand black rule and come here bringing their racist ways.

                Fuck you are a twit

                • ropata

                  Bill Liu, Jian Yang ring any bells? How about Judith Collins and her personal connections to Oravida? Are you just going to gloss over these deeply concerning influences over NZ politics, and indeed China’s growing influence over Pacific nations? This will not be good for us. Tibet is the model for China’s expansionist plans.

                  • Wei

                    Looks like most Pacific leaders welcome this Chinese influence:



                    As do African countries:

                    As former South African President Jacob Zuma said:

                    “Europe in particular, you are regarded as either a former subject or a second and third class kind of a person”. But “the relationship between China and African countries, particularly South Africa, is different”, he said.
                    “We relate as brothers and sisters to do business together, not because one is a poor cousin.”

                    A filthy Uncle Tom such as Ropata would prefer to be endlessly fucked up the ass by a white South African, and wants to perpetuate global white power forever.

                    • I’m surprised the moderators allowed the level of verbal violence displayed by Wei throughout this thread.

                      Also, the point(s) must be made about Chinese immigration – largely, as a generalisation, they make little attempt to integrate, and, one suspects, their bottom-line loyalty is always to their motherland.

                      Furthermore, before extolling the virtues of China, one should look at how the Tibetan and Uyghur peoples are enjoying the wonderful Peoples’ Republic!

                    • KJT

                      Chinese bribes to leaders, just like US ones, tend to make them friendly.

                    • Janet

                      Actually , having sailed through many of the Pacific Islands over the last few years I noticed – saw and heard – it’s the Chinese money they are after not the Chinese influence. Trouble is they are being slowly ensnared through this kind of Chinese “foreign aid” and end up with “white elephants” of roads and buildings, their fisheries annexed and of course a huge debt to the China.

                    • Gabby

                      Zoomie sounds like a bit of a racist doesn’t he Wei.

  15. I do appreciate, commenting on my post immediately above, that most of the abuse occurred in the small hours of the morning – and even moderators need some sleep!

    But the poster ‘Wei’ should raise red flags in future. [And not PRC ones!]

    • Wei 16.1

      they make little attempt to integrate

      In things that matter, like crime rates which are a tiny fraction of everyone elses, Asians integrate extremely well. Their kids will likely talk better english than those whose families have been here for generations.

      Not sure what you mean by not integrating. Compared to say white South Africans who have created a huge Boer enclave on the North Shore? Or English migrants at the local soccer club.

      You can be sure of more of those racist boers coming over here, as the South African government is starting to move on reclaiming some land, and if this guy has his way

      Not sure about most people would think of a potential flood of white South Africans, but I’m sure white New Zealanders will be vastly more sympathetic to them than boatloads of black Africans or Sri Lankans or Chinese, even though Boers are the population least deserving on the entire planet

      Personally I hope the South African government seals off the borders and then carry out its land expropriation without compensation. Let those Boers scurry around like the rats they are with nowhere to go.

      • Keepcalmcarryon 16.1.1

        I believe you mean “speak better English.”

      • mary_a 16.1.2

        Wei (16.1) … I have been reading your comments today. While everyone has the right to voice their opinion respectfully and considerately, I find your comments to be extremely personal, aggressive, rude, racist and downright offensive, which is neither necessary nor acceptable to put your message across in a public forum such as this.

        To debate in the manner which you have done so here, IMHO automatically loses you your argument!

      • Cinny 16.1.3

        wei, I’ve been reading all your posts on this thread too.

        wei, you look desperate, arrogant and foolish.
        People will read your words and rather than getting them on your side, they’re just gonna think you are a wanker. JS

        Mods should ban your arse.

        [1. Don’t slap up bold just for the hell of it (removed) and 2. Don’t tell moderators what to do. 3. Read this moderating comment, and then pull your head all of the way in quick smart.] – Bill

      • Gabby 16.1.4

        No Wei, Jose.

  16. KJT 17

    Anyone who thinks 70 thousand new immigrants a year, and 110 thousand “student visa’s, has no effect on wages, work conditions, infrastructure, the environment and New Zealanders quality of life, is delusional!

    • Nic the NZer 17.1

      Unfortunately economics is just terrible at producing the evidence for or against this.
      I did get into a discussion with AOB where I could not find tangible evidence that immigration actually surpresses wages (as locals tend to find other occupations when immigrants take over the work).
      On the other hand there is a present post on croakingcassandra (Michael Reddel) where he concludes bus companies are presently bidding on contracts based on migrant wage rates for the drivers. The assumption is the bus driver wage rate in NZ is being bid down.

      There is also the issue of how MBIE should differentiate between skills shortages and low wage worker shortages. The fact wages are rising a little in some sector seems to be defacto taken as evidence the sector has a skills shortage. This is the wrong balance.

      • KJT 17.1.1

        All working people have seen it happening around them. Including me. Which is why we get angry with the “Academic LEFT’s support for excessive immigration.
        And the rights, use of it to keep wages low, and house prices and unemployment high. Supported by people on the left who are insulated from reality.

        • Bill

          Bosses, not migrants, keep wages low. How the economy is managed (or mismanaged) pumps up house prices and creates “flexibility” in the labour market.

        • savenz

          +1000 KJT

        • Keepcalmcarryon

          So true KJT. You don’t have to look far to see some shining examples.

  17. Sanctuary 18

    I am not entirely convinced that angry Chinese people with chips on their shoulder and who dislike us for our imperial past will make useful or welcome immigrants.

    • Keepcalmcarryon 18.1

      Or contributors on TS although I’m sure their stay will be brief.

    • veutoviper 18.2

      NZ born see this:

      The Housing Crisis.

      The mod response to last night has now come in response to 1 at today’s OM

      Open Mike 19/04/2018

      Deja vu considering the previous response(s) eg Round 1 – Nov 2017
      /the-yellow-peril/#comment-1415514 – at 34 with first comments starting at about 15
      /the-yellow-peril/#comment-1415548 – 34.3 result with mod ‘discussion’ following leading to
      /the-yellow-peril/#comment-1415905 at 37 and responses to this.

      Round 2 – Jan/Feb 2018 /search/Wei/page/3/ some interesting ones here but this is where it really got going again
      /search/Wei/page/2/ in particular see the two at the bottom of the page – but then leading to the first link above on 11 Feb.

      Then the 3 April episode (Round 3) including these:

      Open Mike 03/04/2018

      Open Mike 03/04/2018

      Also /open-mike-03-04-2018/#comment-1469856

      Then last night ——

    • veutoviper 18.3

      NZ born apparently – [deleted]

      The mod response to last night has now come in response to 1 at today’s OM – [deleted]
      Deja vu considering the previous response(s) eg Round 1 – Nov 2017 [deleted] – at 34 with first comments starting at about 15. Also 35 and 37.

      Round 2 – Jan/Feb 2018 [deleted] and page 2 leading to the first link above on 11 Feb.

      Then the OM 3 April episode (Round 3). Then last night …

      • Keepcalmcarryon 18.3.1

        Interesting history alright thanks veutoviper, I am in awe of your attention to detail!

        • veutoviper

          Lots of research experience, Actually the Search function here is not bad – above “comments/replies/opinions” lists. If you put in for example “veutoviper” it will bring up all comments by me in a (semi) chronological order, but you can also filter further using the choices under the Search box such as “comments”. . Also you can filter further by putting in two names -eg W.. B… and that filters down to those two persons. This is sometimes a little hit and miss. Oh, just rechecked that and here is another interesting one … [deleted]

          Words fail me – just as well probably.

          [Words fail you? Well, here are some words for your consideration. At 10:30 you tried to submit a comment very much like the one above. It got caught in “the trap” and I, being kind, sent it off to spam on the grounds that it was very much designed to rack up tension. If the comment had made it to the front end, you’d have been banned. Silly you decided to resubmit the same idiotic comment (more or less)at 11:00. Let’s be clear. Very clear. If someone is banned, they are beginning anew afterwards. “Hunting” people down to build some spiteful, xenophobic fueled case against them because of their comments is going to see you (or anyone else who does it) go on a very, very long holiday from the site. I don’t know whether your second submission was released, or came straight through to the front end. Depending on how much of my time I waste finding out, and depending on what I find out, I might be coming back to you with a moderation containing an as yet undecided length of time attached. I hope I’m clear enough; that you understand. Generating or encouraging any kind of punitive mob mentality around individuals who submit comments to this site will not end well for those indulging in the bullshit.] -Bill

    • KJT 18.4

      Fortunately most Chinese love New Zealand, and the second generation integrate well.

      If we are going to have immigration, however, our conscience should dictate taking more refugees, not middle and upper class Chinese, or Americans or anyone else, who can do well in their own countries.

      • ropata 18.4.1

        +1 Agreed immigrants make many positive contributions. It is the current volumes that are unsustainable and stressing our services and infrastructure and housing beyond capacity

      • savenz 18.4.2

        +1 KJT – we have pitiful refugees under the Natz, (Go figure as John Key always used how his mum was a refugee living in the state house). Charity clearly didn’t start at home in that scenario.

        Funny enough pretty sure that you can get tilers, chefs and so forth desperate to get out of a refugee camp, but nope the NZ agenda is more a societal one to change the demographic into Natz favour, overload the public sector and lower wages and conditions.

        Pity the lefty academics and politicians failed to notice.

  18. timeforacupoftea 19

    I don’t think we need to have non-humanitarian migrants nor do we need refugees.

    If a New Zealander goes overseas and comes back married or has gone through a civil union to a non New Zealander or a tourists fall in love here in NZ and Marries / civil union then that should be enough for our country to deal with.
    I suppose we could also allow the parents of the new New Zealander here too but not brothers sisters aunts and all the hanger on’s.

    I am not particularly happy with refugees coming in as the ones who are settled down south do tend to move towards Auckland as they don’t like our cold winters down here.

    Another thing about refugees which I have seen through my own eyes and they expect it to and are also very pushy people, they get every type of medical and dentistry help free and cue jump on Maori and Pakeha New Zealanders.
    I presume that goes for welfare as well.
    Before long they bring in the family tree etc.

    It’s a bloody mess.

    The fault lies with National, they should have cut down on Migrants and Refugees.

  19. tsmithfield 20

    During the election campaign, Jacinda promised to cut immigration by 20000-30000 during its three year term

    So, how is she going to achieve that and at the same time supply 50-60000 more workers to enable the kiwibuild program?

    • Pat 20.1

      the answers are in your final link….

      ‘ Only 10 per cent of construction firms train staff at any one time. ‘

      ‘John Tookey, head of department for built environment engineering at AUT, said a lack of tradespeople was a global concern. “For many years we have had society transition to university for everything, degrees for all sorts of things that historically would have been school-leaver jobs. The trades have been looked down upon,” he said.’

      ‘Pamela Bell, of PrefabNZ, said prefabrication on a large scale could help to reduce the number of workers needed. She said the Government was aware its projections were based on traditional construction methods, not those in which houses were manufactured off-site.’

      ‘The pay on offer was not good enough to genuinely attract local trades workers, he said.’

      ‘Immigration was an important tool for construction companies to use when labour was tight, but it should not be used as a default option to get skilled workers, Quinn said.’

      • tsmithfield 20.1.1

        No problems with training more people. However, training takes time, and the housing crisis is now, so it appears to me that if the government wants to solve the problem quickly they will need to bring in the skills from overseas.

        • Pat

          an apprentice begins to be productive from 6 months to a year after being taken on ….that is nothing in the grand scheme of things especially when your talking about a work stream stretching out decades…..the construction industry has always been its own worst enemy when it comes to training, and only partially because of the boom bust nature.
          Think how many experienced tradesmen we would have now if the government had promoted training in response to the ChCh quakes instead of encouraging wholesale importation of dubious skills.

        • savenz

          If the housing crisis is now why are we making it worse by importing in 70,000 migrants and giving out 180,000 work permits?

          Such weird logic, I understand from the Natz, but Labourites seem to infected with fake logic syndrome.

          It’s pretty easy, who do you think should get any remaining houses, a local person or some Malaysian stopper, 300 people from China building the luxury Hyatt for an offshore organisation for rich tourists, 300 minimum wages bus drivers or a fake chef or hotel clerk probably paying for the job?

          None of these people are necessary for construction of urgent housing and actually it’s keeping local tradies out of the industry by not giving them opportunities.

          The urgent housing is only needed because of the immigration scam!

          Talk about Shock Doctrine syndrome operating in NZ, they created a crisis to manipulate the situation to their advantage so that banks and multinational’s in particular could lower wages and increase house and land prices. Then they use the ‘crisis’ to keep more people flooding in.

    • The Chairman 20.2

      “So, how is she going to achieve that and at the same time supply 50-60000 more workers to enable the kiwibuild program?”

      Labour are looking at utilizing prefabricated houses which require far less skilled workers to construct.

    • savenz 20.3

      No doubt as soon as they build them, they will need remedial work aka ChCH and leaky building and Bella Vista.

      Maybe go back to old fashioned Kiwi or legally resident tradies and make sure that they actually know what they are doing. Also council worker obviously, signing off the COC’s.

      Houses that are not habitable are no use for anyone and actually more destructive that not building them at all.

      Quality should beat quantity when our quality is so low in building and building materials.

  20. The Chairman 21

    “The New Zealand Institute of Economic Research believes we’d be better off with 15 million of us.”

    The Greens say 5.7 million has been suggested as a possible population limit based on New Zealand’s “ecological carrying capacity”.

    • Stuart Munro 21.1

      These kinds of numbers have a pretty limited basis in reality – Korea has getting on for fifty million in less space than the south island. But they have the best subway system in the world – good and cheap high speed rail, and a well developed apartment design and building sector.

      NZ could support a hundred million in comfort – but not without good planning. With Auckland struggling to find the strength of character to build decent sewerage and public transport infrastructure, NZ simply isn’t ready for substantial population increases, even if the public supported it.

        • Stuart Munro

          It’s a good point, and it shows the danger of deregulating global trade mechanisms, because rice farming is a pretty meagre living in Korea – in spite of being critical to providing food security. I was there during the protests, which were large and caused several fatalities.
          I wonder a little about the 90% of food is imported figure though – in dollar value perhaps – but local rice and vegetable production is substantial, perhaps it is poorly rewarded.

          • Pat

            I was surprised by the 90% figure as well….would need corroboration IMO, but even so we forget it wasnt that long ago that food security was a major issue for much of the world and its only kept at bay now by massive use of fossil fuels both in the production and transport.

      • savenz 21.1.2

        But do we want to? Bit like filling up the Pacific Islands with people or everywhere else too, Asia, Europe and America are densely populated, the Pacific has less money but more quality of life (or used to).

        Not sure we can have both – Asia, Europe and America, keep your cash and competition and we’ll opt for quality of life and natural environment.

        By building up NZ we are also putting carbon into the air, not helping the natural environment.

      • savenz 21.1.3

        South Korea, very corrupt nation, with high living costs and long working hours.

        North Korea, dictator with starvation at their door.

        Not sure either sounds like a good example for NZ to follow.

        • Stuart Munro

          The point I was trying to make was that to live with a higher population density we would have to make significant changes that struggle to attract political support.

          Cost of living is substantially lower than NZ – my average power bill was $8.

          Corruption in some areas perhaps – but they have a vigorous prosecution service that would have no problem locking up the likes of Key or Brownlee.

          As with any culture there are things to learn from Korea – public transport and anti-housing speculation measures among them.

      • Pat 21.1.4

        15 million,,,awesome, 10 Aucklands.

        • Stuart Munro

          There are roughly twice as many as that in Shanghai, probably in a smaller area all up. But although it is improving it is less than a poster case for high density living.

          The economists who came up with this drivel were blithering idiots – but given decent planning, proper infrastructure, and the absence of speculators and rorting, NZ could support a higher population without the freight of social and environmental problems that shabby planning, aging and over-patronized infrastructure and rampant uncontrolled property speculation have left us with.

          • Pat

            am well aware that the disaster area that is our largest city is a mere pup in world terms but just because it can be done by no means requires that it should be done.

          • savenz

            Where are the high paid jobs? The migrants and the kiwis are leaving because the wages are so low and opportunities few.

            Our average wage is close to the living wage which suggests that 50% of our population have wages below living levels.

            The obvious solution is to make any migrants be only high wage earners and to charge employers a lot more to bring the person in as well as pay some sort of bond to the government and if it does not work out the person does not get residency. Companies are going under after bringing in a lot of migrants.

            You have to wonder why we are allowing this. A 24 month stand down – first why should they be allowed to bring in minimum wages staff in the first place as restaurant staff, secondly they break NZ rules and they don’t get a massive fine or even a life ban from bringing in more migrants. Something is very wrong in this country.

            Christchurch restaurant run ‘how it is in Japan’ fined over breaches

            • Stuart Munro


              It also shows that far from the technical specialists we were supposed to be getting to lift our productivity, we’re getting useless property investors and low end labourers or dodgy business operators who should not qualify for entry without some humanitarian reason.

              • savenz

                It’s actually going the other way with the technical specialists too, big companies (and big name companies) are secretly or not so secretly laying off experienced (read more expensive staff) with a strategy of getting in cheap graduates or migrants … the problem is NZ is starting to lose more and more of our experienced technical staff (eagerly snapped up in many cases overseas) but also like construction, we will no longer have anyone who knows what they are doing and are experienced at doing it. Huge problems ahead with that strategy in particular the tech industry… but I guess to the corps, they get their bonus by saving a $ at the expense of a longer term viable company or delivering viable projects to this country.

                • Janet

                  Exactly. as well as much of our “work” being now undertaken off-shore, our NZ skilled and educated are leaving for a variety of reasons. They need to come home. How do we persuade them back. it takes about 7 years to gain a NZ passport, maybe it should take 7 years to lose it !

      • The Chairman 21.1.5

        These numbers highlight the vast differences in what some are advocating for.

        The one thing many Koreans have told me is they like NZ because of its open spaces and the fact its not so crowded. Hence, it’s a selling point.

        And the feeling of being crowded out is what is turning many kiwis off growing immigration.

        Our ailing infrastructure is failing to cope with the numbers we currently have let alone having to deal with a population of 15 million. Moreover, local and central government are struggling with the growing related costs of improving and providing more infrastructure. Therefore, I agree. NZ simply isn’t ready for substantial population increases.

  21. CHCOff 22

    Yep, we need more record immigration levels so every attempt to try and get to grip with New Zealand’s negative social trends – the vast majority – are futile.

    Turn the social trends around, then look at immigration as an valid economic tool or multiplier- not before. The vast majority of new immigrants would support such like too as after they are here, would be in most of their interests also.

    end of story.

    • ropata 22.1

      Agreed with the first part (if it is indeed sarcasm)

      Disagree with the next bit, “the vast majority of new immigrants” vote National in order to fill up NZ with their compatriots and push out the locals.

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    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    2 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    3 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    3 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    3 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    3 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    3 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    4 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    4 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy
    5 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    5 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    5 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    5 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    2 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    2 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    2 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    2 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    2 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    2 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    3 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    3 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    3 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    3 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    3 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    4 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    4 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    4 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    4 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    4 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    4 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    4 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    5 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    5 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    5 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    5 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    6 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    6 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    1 week ago