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Dotcom developments

Written By: - Date published: 7:31 am, July 26th, 2013 - 104 comments
Categories: accountability, john key, Spying - Tags: , , ,

It’s no real surprise that the public trust Kim Dotcom more than John Key:

Public sides with Dotcom in poll

… At issue is whether the Prime Minister knew about Kim Dotcom before the raid on his Coatesville mansion in February last year.
John Key has always denied it, but Mr Dotcom says he has evidence to prove it.

A 3 News Reid Research poll asked the public who they believe; 52 percent said they believe Dotcom, while 34 percent believe Mr Key. The rest said they didn’t know or care.

For other coverage: John Key’s credibility takes a hit. A reminder to Key that his “popularity” as preferred PM is a politician’s “popularity” (he’s seen as the least bad option perhaps), not to be mistaken for the real thing.

In other Dotcom developments, check out this audio from last night’s anti GCSB Bill protest: Kim Dotcom reveals how John Key knew about him prior to the raid – Audio. Starting about 1:30 Journalist Selwyn Manning describes “some breaking news from Dotcom”:

Manning: He said that the New Zealand SIS back in mid 2010 … made a recommendation to the immigration minister … that he be blocked from getting residencey here in New Zeland. … Kim Dotocom said that information that has come through from his case through disclosure and legal means has shown that later in 2010 the Prime Minister John Key went to Hollywood and met with the movie brass over there. Now the very next day the SIS pulled its advisory and then supported his residency application. Now the implication there from Dotcom was that if this is true then the net seems to have been cast to basically capture him and the thing was in play …

Interviewer 1: [Recaps and questions why?]

Manning: The logic would suggest … was the SIS then turning it around so he would get residency here, he was then on safe New Zealand soil so the FBI could do what it did.

Interviewer 2: And catch him.

[… discussion …]

Interviewer 1: If that is the case, then John Key must have known.


104 comments on “Dotcom developments ”

  1. Tiger Mountain 1

    While Dottie may be a natural right winger or at least gravitate to the financial elite he may have learned a thing or two whilst a resident of ‘Boston Rd Flats’ with no Banksie is sight to bail him out. Not to mention all the rest of it–illegal surveillance, special gagging order via Bill English, lies, lies lies, erratic memories etc.

    A simple flow chart shows it all leads back to ShonKey knowing. This has to stick. Anne Salmond is onto it, anyone without the backbone to oppose the bill should never show their faces again at an ANZAC ceremony.

    My WWII era parents did not like my activist views but always encouraged me because “thats why your dad went to war” and they believed that.

  2. ghostwhowalksnz 2

    …late in 2010… ”

    Its a bit vague, you need to nail down the actual dates

    • David H 2.1

      Why Key is sure’er than sure, and positive that it was AFTER the raid in 2012 that he first heard of KDC.

      • Veutoviper 2.1.1

        Key has said on many occasions that it was the day BEFORE the raid – not after the raid. That is,he claims that the first he heard of KDC was on 19 Jan 2012.

        • David H

          Sorry my bad, I was about 2 days out. Unlike Key, who could be up-to 2 to 3 years out.

    • Veutoviper 2.2

      The timeline prepared by NZ First released in April 2013 covers this earlier period – with sources of the information.


      NZF’s press release in April 2013 also raised the coincidence timewise between Key’s meeting with Hollywood bigwigs and the withdrawal of the SIS objections to KDC’s immigration application – so KDC’s statement last night was not actually a new revelation.

      In fact, NZF released a press statement in April 2013 re the SIS

      As it is relatively short, here is the release – copied from the NZF website

      “SIS OK Dotcom’s Residency Day After PM Met Hollywood Bigwig
      10 April 2013
      Andrew Williams
      New Zealand First says Prime Minister John Key needs to come clean about the full extent of his knowledge about the FBI investigation into Kim Dotcom.

      Andrew Williams MP today produced evidence that a director of the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), Kevin Tsujihara, was part of Government talks on The Hobbit in October 2010.

      “Mr Key hosted Kevin Tsujihara at Premier House on 26 and 27 October 2010.

      “At the time, Mr Tsujihara was President of Warner Brothers Home Entertainment and oversaw Warner Bros’ anti-piracy operations. He is now the CEO.

      “It’s intriguing that on 28 October 2010 – a day after Mr Key met with Mr Tsujihara – the SIS lifted a hold on Kim Dotcom’s residency application.”

      “It would be astonishing if the Prime Minister – who is also the Minister in charge of the Security Intelligence Service – was not informed of this decision.

      “The fact that it happened a day after Mr Key met a representative of the MPAA, a group which is known to have been lobbying the US Government to arrest Mr Dotcom, makes it virtually impossible to believe.

      Mr Williams says the Prime Minister has so far refused to confirm that Mr Tsujihara was also at a private dinner he attended in Hollywood last year, citing privacy concerns.

      “But Mr Key has admitted that the Dotcom case was discussed at that dinner.”

      Mr Williams says a timeline prepared by New Zealand First – collated from Parliamentary Questions, OIA requests and media reports – leading up to Dotcom’s arrest in January 2012 reveals an extraordinary set of facts.

      “Our timeline also shows that Mr Key met with the SIS on 12 October 2010. That was a day before the SIS put a hold on Dotcom’s residency application.

      “How on earth could they not have told him?” says Mr Williams.”

      EDIT – snap. Karol at 5.1.1 and I were obviously commenting at the same time.

  3. martin 3

    The day after the Hollywood exec meeting was the date

  4. karol 4

    Has the statement from Kim Dotcom about the 2010 developments, been removed from the video on demand version of the meeting last night. I can’t find it.

    Part 1 of the video on The Daily blog, ends at about 1hr 22 mins. Part 2 is 8 mins long. The KDC statement came after Cunliffe’s statement, which was at about 1hr 14 mins. Anthony says the KDC statement is at 1 hr 30.

    • Veutoviper 4.1

      I have just rechecked the Daily Blog video and KDC’s statement re the 2010 developments starts about 1 hr 33 mins. There are a couple of questions between Cunliffe’s statement and KDC’s revelations.

      The video I just watched goes on well past 1 hr 22 mins right to the end of the meeting and some time afterwards when everyone is mixing around.

    • karol 5.1

      Thanks. KDC’s statement about the SIS is at 1hr 33mins.

      Just a general statement. The SIS initially blocked KDC’s application fro residency saying there was an FBI investigation against him. Late in 2010 Key met with Hollywood people, including the MPAA, and the next day the SIS reversed its decision and granted KDC and wife residency.

      • karol 5.1.1

        Andrew Williams, NZ First has the timeline here:

        Andrew Williams MP today produced evidence that a director of the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), Kevin Tsujihara, was part of Government talks on The Hobbit in October 2010.

        “Mr Key hosted Kevin Tsujihara at Premier House on 26 and 27 October 2010.

        “At the time, Mr Tsujihara was President of Warner Brothers Home Entertainment and oversaw Warner Bros’ anti-piracy operations. He is now the CEO.

        “It’s intriguing that on 28 October 2010 – a day after Mr Key met with Mr Tsujihara – the SIS lifted a hold on Kim Dotcom’s residency application.”

        So, KDC’s statement isn’t actually new information.

  5. Roflcopter 6

    So… no “smoking gun”, just more weasel words from DotCon the convicted fraudster.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 6.1

      He has stated repeatedly that he will present the evidence in court next year. In the meantime he clearly has every intention to keep the pot simmering.

      I encourage you to put your faith in your dear leader, John Key. Stake your reputation on his good faith and trustworthy character, it’s a sure thing, honest, no really, truly.

      • Winston Smith 6.1.1

        I encourage you to put your faith in your dear leader, John Key. Stake your reputation on his good faith and trustworthy character, it’s a sure thing, honest, no really, truly.

        – Better than relying on Dot Con

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          Well then, I guess when someone starts relying on him you’ll have a point.

          • Winston Smith

            Seems to be the left relying on Dot Con which is a pretty sad state of affairs for the left

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead

              No, it doesn’t seem that at all. Not even to you: you’re just trying (and failing) to score what you imagine will be a hit.

            • tracey

              Given your very low opinion of dotcom if it turns out key has lied about this matter, what
              will your opinion be of the pm then?

            • tracey

              Given your very low opinion of dotcom if it turns out key has lied about this matter, what
              will your opinion be of the pm then?

    • Santi 6.2

      We must be scraping the bottom of the barrel to have any faith in a convicted fraudster and con-man like the infamous KDC.

      • vto 6.2.1

        We have scraped the bottom of the barrel to put faith in a lying money-trader who keeps shitting on those less fortunate. Scum.

      • tricledrown 6.2.2

        Santi or a money trader who worked for Merrill Lynch the most corrupt corporation ever!

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 6.2.3

        Well then Santi, when someone puts their faith in him you’ll have a point.

      • Huginn 6.2.4

        Santi, you are a sad, sad sock puppet

  6. One Anonymous Knucklehead 7

    One huge question the post leaves unanswered: does Mr.com have proof that Key ordered the SIS to pull its advisory?

    I mean, it’s obvious that’s what happened, but without a paper trail (or Warren Tucker in the dock giving evidence to that effect), Key will survive.

  7. martin 8

    Knucklehead, it was the day after he met Hollywood execs.
    The SIS isnt releasing the docos as Dotcom said they sadly for him sight “national security”

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 8.1

      He also says he has proof Key lied, and he’ll present it in court.

      • Roflcopter 8.1.1

        Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he’s wanted for repeated copyright infringements…

        He’s like Hone Harawira in court over the last few days, trying to dance around the outside with all manner of theatrics, and like Hone he’ll be told by those who are there to consider his case, that the theatrics are irrelevant to the reasons he is before them.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          What lovely ad hominem drivel. I expect you find it compelling.

        • lprent

          I realize that you cannot prevent yourself from being an idiot, but you could at least inform yourself about what he is charged with. Try Wikipedia. Even you can probably achieve that.

          It isn’t copyright violations. It is a mixture of conspiracy and “racketeering” charges that are do nebulous that every businessman in the world could get charged with something similar. Moreover the US courts probably don’t have any authority to make them. In other words it is a political charge made by someone with political clout.

          Has very little to do with parking a car over a driveway.

        • martin

          The copyright issue has nothing to do with whether the PMs lying

      • weka 8.1.2

        “He also says he has proof Key lied, and he’ll present it in court.”

        Yes. Given that both KDC and Key seem confident in their positions, one has to wonder what the evidence is and where it came from. Maybe KDC has a Hollywood mole (ha!) and has something from the meeting. SIS documents seem unlikely. Otherwise I suspect he will present circumstantial evidence rather than proof.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          Perhaps Paul Davison will figure out a way to put Warren Tucker in the dock 🙂

          • yeshe

            dog tucker — what marvelous fun that would be !

            and maybe PD has already figured it out ?

        • Winston Smith

          Given that one is a con-man wanted for questioning in the US and the other is the PM of NZ using occams razor I’d say the simplest answer is Dot Con is full of shit because he knows the media (duly supported by the left) will eat up anything he says

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead

            I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t need Kim.com’s help getting a poor impression of John Key: John Key does that all on his own when he has none fifty thousand yeah a hundred thousand shares on camera and he can’t hide those lyin’ eyes, when he slits his throat, when he can’t recall which of his lawyers helped screw his pants on this morning.

            But none of the ad hominem crap you or I can muster matters one little bit. What matters is what’s in those disclosure documents.

            Tick tock.

            • Winston Smith

              You may not need Dot cons help but Labour certainly need him

              “But none of the ad hominem crap you or I can muster matters one little bit. What matters is what’s in those disclosure documents.”

              – I agree

              • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                Labour needs him? Again you are overstating your case. If Key weren’t in the gun over Kim.com it would be something else tripping him up. You can’t tell that many lies for too long before they catch up with you no matter what you’re doing. As Felix (and vto?) have said “He will fail at the peak – it’s written in his character.”

                • Winston Smith

                  Labour need him beacuse:

                  A. They have no money and are hoping Dot Con gives them some
                  B. No one seems to care what Shearer says but do when Dot Con speaks
                  C. Labour are (at worst) going backwards or (at best) flat lining so need Dot Con because he seems to be the only one scoring major points

                  “He will fail at the peak – it’s written in his character.”

                  – Far be it from me to disagree with Felix and VTO however being that the Left have tried (and failed miserably) to pin something, anything on John Key and dent his popularity for years I’ll go with history on this and say that Key is a helluva lot smarter then most give credit for and more cunning then most

                  Hes the most popular and effective post-MMP leader we’ve had for a reason and the left consistantly underestimate him to their peril

          • vto

            Winston Smith, you do know John Key is a compulsive liar don’t you.

            • Winston Smith

              Of course, he is a politician after all

              • weka

                Cop out and disingenuous. Show me a Green MP who has lied as often as Key has (or lied at all in fact). You should be able to pull up a list like BLiP’s one about Key’s lies for each MP in parliament.

  8. Wayne 9

    Why is this evidence.

    It is really just a hypothesis. Which is that John Key goes to Hollywood, that he is told that KDC should be extradited, that a direction is then given to SIS to withdraw their objection, presumably by John Key.

    But there is no evidence presented here that supports this hypothesis.

    But seriously, do you really think John Key would act like this? Do you really think Hollywood moguls would even raise KDC with the PM?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 9.1

      I’m not expecting to see any actual evidence until election year. This is just Kim.com telling us what he knows.

    • vto 9.2

      Fascinating isn’t it Wayne how your government has intertwined the forces of capital and government to an extent far greater than ever seen before in New Zealand.

      This is fascism.

      Can you handle that? Has it even occurred to you? What do you intend to do about this?

      • vto 9.2.1

        Hello Wayne?

      • Santi 9.2.2

        This is fascism you said..

        Take a deep breath and sit down, calm down. Anger is bad for your health.

        • weka

          “Anger is bad for your health.”

          Only if you don’t express it a useful way.

          Marginialising other people’s politics by calling them emotional…. bad for the soul (assuming you have one).

    • karol 9.3

      Key didn’t meet with the Hollywood execs in Hollywood but at Premier House in NZ. It was part of the Hobbit discussions (see my link & quote above.

    • weka 9.4

      “But seriously, do you really think John Key would act like this? Do you really think Hollywood moguls would even raise KDC with the PM?”

      Wow, that would have to be one of hte most naive comments I’ve seen in a while.

    • tricledrown 9.5

      Wayne they didn’t talk about a small bunch of unionists working on th hobbit films either1

      • Wayne 9.5.1

        But the Hobbitt was the known public purpose of the meeting. Getting the Hobbit movies made here was a Govt priority and that was plain to everyone.

        What is being suggested here is that as a side issue, KDC was also mentioned, that the FBI wanted to extradite him, and the only thing in the way was uncertainty about KDC’s residency status. And this about a guy the PM had never heard of until that moment (this being the timeline alleged by KDC).

        Effectively a request to the PM, “PM, can you also sort this out for us, the problem is the SIS”

        • weka

          What makes you think that JK hadn’t heard of KDC until that meeting?

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          Perhaps they read the Wikipedia article on the SIS and figured that, as the responsible minister, Key would be the right person to raise the issue with.

          I expect that’s naïve of me, imagining that Ministers might expect to take questions about their portfolio.

          “Well, copyright infringement is just one lawyer’s opinion and I can show you another who’ll give you a counterview.”

          Then again why bother asking him: his word ain’t worth shit.

        • karol

          According to the NZ First press release, not only was Dotcom’s residency granted the day after the PM met Hollywood execs (over the Hobbit), but also this:

          “Our timeline also shows that Mr Key met with the SIS on 12 October 2010. That was a day before the SIS put a hold on Dotcom’s residency application.

          Coincidence that both happened the day after Key had these meetings?

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          Who said they asked him to “sort this out”, Dr. Mapp? Maybe they said “That megaupload thing, that’s all in hand, thanks for your help, John, get your guy to come by later and we’ll see you right.”

          But it really doesn’t matter how the subject came up does it?

        • vto

          “But the Hobbitt was the known public purpose of the meeting”

          wtf does that have to do with anything worthwhile or relevant to the issue?

          And further, tell us what both the unknown public purpose was and the non-public purpose was.

    • Veutoviper 9.6

      But seriously, do you really think John Key would act like this? Do you really think Hollywood moguls would even raise KDC with the PM?


      Why? Because as well as meeting with Hollywood moguls here in NZ in Oct 2010, Key also met with them in Hollywood in Oct 2012 (and that is just the meetings we know about!)

      Prior to the Oct 2012 meetings (just after Key had publicly apologised to KDC) Key was adamant the KDC would not be discussed at those meetings. In the event, it transpired that they DID discuss KDC.

      I do not have time right now to google links to the many articles that appeared at the time of the 2012 meetings – but there were numerous articles both here in NZ (Stuff, Herald etc) and in the US on the meetings and the fact that KDC was discussed.

      So, Dr Mapp, I appreciate that as a former Minister in the current government, you are trying to defend your party and PM. But stop the BS.

    • Sable 9.7

      No one believed our own government illegally spied on its own citizens either and yet here we are. Kim Doctom has if nothing else proven himself a lot more astute than Keys and he has been able to back up everything he has said so far. Keys on the other hand has been left looking like an idiot again and again with nothing by rhetoric to back up his dubious claims….

  9. martin 10

    Of course not.
    The Hollywood execs never wanted a case bought against him to protect their copyrights on the internet.

  10. Santi 11

    In suggest NZ deports KDC back to his native Germany. Have a safe flight, fraudster.

    • weka 11.1

      Yeah, pity he’s a resident with legal rights in NZ. Damn law.

      • Richard Christie 11.1.1

        Ah, the rich irony in that the SIS withdrawal of objection led to DC’s residency.

        The sting that went bad.

    • amirite 11.2

      I suggest NZ to deport Santi to the Stupid camp. The sooner, the better.

    • Sable 11.3

      Yes and he will probably get a fair trial too. No chances of that in this totalitarian shit hole.

    • Sable 11.4

      Yes and he would probably get a fair trial too. No chances of that in this totalitarian shit hole.

  11. tricledrown 12

    Grinch where do we send a corrupt lying ponzi scheming money trader to then.

  12. Sable 13

    Keys behavior comes as no surprise, what does surprise is that people still support him. I think this speaks volumes about how little we have come to expect from our government.

    As to Kim Dotcom, my advice, if you can, fly to Russia and join Edward Snowden, you wont get fair or legal treatment in this country. Its now no more than a satellite state of the USA.

    • Wayne 13.1

      I am pretty sure Judge Winkelmann would be offended to read that she is not giving “fair or legal treatment” to KDC.

      • Veutoviper 13.1.1

        Despite my response to you at 9.6 above, I agree with you on this comment.

        So far in the KDC case, Judge Winkelmann has proved herself to be an excellent judge.

      • tracey 13.1.2

        Thank god for the courts which recently a couple of ministers questioned because they disagreed with their rulings.

  13. infused 14

    Have to bookmark this thread for next years. Hilarious.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 14.1

      Yeah, because then if he can’t prove Key knew you’ll be able to concoct some more witless fiction how everyone was relying on him, eh, and you’ll give yourself a little pat on the back and tell yourself how witty and clever you are, and generally be boorish and vacuous as usual.


    • Sable 14.2

      There wont be a next year. If you post comments in the coming months that upset Emperor Keys expect square jawed goons on your doorstep and a one way ticket to a super max prison (read dungeon).

    • tracey 14.3

      Thank god he didnt sign a painting for a charity auction cos that would be truly awful.

    • tracey 14.4

      Thank god he didnt sign a painting for a charity auction cos that would be truly awful.

    • tracey 14.5

      Thank god he didnt sign a painting for a charity auction cos that would be truly awful.

    • Pascal's bookie 14.6

      Have to bookmark this thread for next years. Hilarious.


      War talk

  14. karol 15

    Selwyn Manning has responded to my comments about what is/isn’t new about Dotcom’s statement last night:

    Hi Karol,

    Yes that is true regarding the timeline. But the important new fact is as you note that KDC was citing the SIS documentation recommending to the Minister of Immigration that his application for residency be declined, and according to KDC the reason given was because he was under FBI investigation.

    And then later in 2010, the SIS reversed that recommendation the day after the Prime Minister met with the Hollywood brass. The SIS and the Prime Minister in charge of the SIS should explain what caused it to reverse its recommendation all-the-while knowing KDC was still under FBI investigation.

    If all this does stack up, the Prime Minister does have a lot of explaining to do as to how he could possibly not know of KDC at that time. The timeline and the SIS reversal have become an important element in the saga.

  15. vto 16

    Why does John Key want to listen to and record every single communication and conversation of mine?

    The arsehole hasn’t answered this question.

    • weka 16.1

      He doesn’t, he wants the spooks to.

      But I reckon with all this confusion around what Key knew and when, and given his poor memory, the easiest solution going forward is for everything Key says and does to be recorded. No more confusion, simple.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 16.1.1

        Paging Dr. Nixon.

      • vto 16.1.2

        Why does John Key want the government to listen to and record every single communication and conversation of mine?

        The arsehole hasn’t answered this question.

        • ropata

          Key did raise the spectre of terrorism in the select committee; asking Thomas Beagle of Tech Liberty what he would do if there was a bombing.

          Beagle’s response was that it is a hypothetical scenario and does not justify a bill which effectively puts a camera in everyone’s home

          • Arfamo

            Well the US’s now multiple internal security agencies have this kind of monitoring capability and how well did it work to prevent the Boston Bombings?

      • Richard Christie 16.1.3

        Now there is an idea for a web protest.

        Designate a week and encourage every citizen to cc all electronic communication to the GCSB.

        Probably won’t result in denial of service but it may make a point.

        • weka

          Someone else had the idea to cc John Key.

          Nice bit of protest, but would need smart organising (and legal advice).

  16. Bearded Git 17

    Looking at the many right-wing responses above, you know they are on the wrong side of this issue. Talk about panic. Key’s credibility, such as it ever was, is sinking fast.

    • infused 17.1

      There’s no panic at all… it’s you lot jumping up and down as if you’ve won lotto… but when you get the ticket read, you find all you’ve won is another ticket.

    • Huginn 17.2

      Definitely. This hysterical stream of toxic vileness directed at Dotcom is very interesting

      They’ve got a real problem on their hands because Dotcom is a really good fit with the Libertarian Right – which has a well defined philosophical position on the state’s use of computational methodologies which goes back at least to Hayek’s early work.

      It’s the Road to Serfdom that Papa Fredie warned them about all those years ago.

      The problem for the Nats is that there’s nowhere for these guys to go since John Banks and Garth McVicar took over Act – and they’re never, ever going to vote for Colin the Conservative because they’re not . . . conservative.

      National has snuffed out its partners so that it can present us with a single political solution, the last thing want now is for these guys to develop an independent political identity

  17. RedBaronCV 18

    So the GCSB are going to record evrything Key does and says? Premier House will be bugged?
    No more convenient brain fades and since they have nothing to hide they will release it all??

  18. Don't worry be happy 19

    Dot com met with John Banks right? Several times?

    Dot com is techno savvy to say the least.

    John Banks is shall we say ‘talkative’…and into promoting his importance, perhaps about his relationship/influence with the PM.

    It’s perfectly legal to record a conversation in NZ if one party is aware that the conversation is being recorded and not at all difficult to do.

    Wheeling and dealing with powerful politicians with spooks in their pay for a safe place for himself and his family I’m picking KDC has been very careful and protective of some fascinating listening for us all in Court.

  19. Rodel 20

    Quite like the dotcom stuff but still think anyone who gave John Banks $50,000 needs to be extradited somewhere.

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