English damaged by Barclay scandal – poll

45 comments on “English damaged by Barclay scandal – poll ”

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1. You_Fool 1

   8 August 2017 at 10:46 am

   Does this mean that green voters are more ethical than national voters?

   50% of Green voters think that what Turei did was wrong
   36% of National voters think what English has done is wrong

   One lied over 20 years ago to provide for her baby
   One (allegedly) pressured and coerced a former employee and potentially mislead the public and police over the illegal conduct of one of his employees
   • francesca 1.1

     8 August 2017 at 11:09 am

     Certainly no one questioned me about Metiria’s “crime”
     I suggest the samples are too small and the situation too scattershot to have reliable polling
     I support Metiria , and now have huge respect for James Shaw as well
   • Bill 1.2

     8 August 2017 at 11:44 am

     Everyone(?) knows it’s wrong to tell WINZ porkies or with-hold info from them.

     That doesn’t mean that anyone has to either condone or condemn people who have told WINZ porkies or with-held info from them.

     I suspect (I haven’t actually seen the wording of the question) that it invited ambiguity and so spat out a meaningless percentage.
   • NZJester 1.3

     8 August 2017 at 12:07 pm

     I think What she did was wrong and should be treated the same way as a big tax dodger. Have to pay back a fraction of the money and be slapped over the wrist with a wet bus ticket!”
   • Matthew Whitehead 1.4

     8 August 2017 at 4:28 pm

     Well, firstly, they are very different questions. (perhaps representing the assymetry that the Nat one is about English’s handling of Barclay, rather than about English himself. Although I’d be curious to see how they’d react to him scamming the taxpayer for his housing allowance back in the day head-to-head with their opinions on Turei) This Q didn’t ask respondents whether English or Barclay “did something wrong,” they asked about trust. If you asked self-identified Green voters if they trusted Turei less over her admissions, I would be surprised if that number got even into double digits, but I don’t think that makes Green voters “less ethical.”

     Secondly, you can be “more ethical” in a way that excuses a particular actually as not actually ethically unsound, because you recognise that while there is such a thing as moral wrongs, there is also such a thing as moral context. So while it may be wrong to lie, it’s also right to be considerate in how you tell the truth, even if that means telling white lies from time to time.
2. mickysavage 2

   8 August 2017 at 10:50 am

   The weird thing is he deleted all of the texts …
   • ianmac 2.1

     8 August 2017 at 10:53 am

     Didn’t Key get into trouble for deleting his texts in the Whaleoil saga?
     • mickysavage 2.1.1

       8 August 2017 at 11:01 am

       Hmmm close

       http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72078230/John-Key-cleared-over-deleted-Cameron-Slater-texts

       “But [Chief Archivist Marilyn Little] did not directly address the destroyed messages between Key and Slater.

       She recommends text messages to and from ministers in their “official capacity” should be treated as a public record. If it is “of short term value” then can be disposed of.”
       • mickysavage 2.1.1.1

         8 August 2017 at 11:04 am

         But wait there’s more

         https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/8-official-information-8

         “Creating and maintaining records

         8.96 Ministers must create full and accurate records of their ministerial affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice.

         8.97 “Records” for the purposes of the Public Records Act includes information held in various formats, such as emails or text messages sent or received on devices like mobile phones.

         8.98 Systems must be put in place to ensure that all information created or received by a Minister in his or her official capacity is treated as a public record according to the requirements of the Public Records Act. This means that records are organised and maintained in a way that allows them to be accessed for as long as they are needed, and that they are disposed of in a way authorised by the Chief Archivist. In particular, Cabinet material and material classified Confidential or above should be filed separately from other information.”
         • Cinny 2.1.1.1.1

           8 August 2017 at 11:08 am

           but, but… it wasn’t in my ministerial capacity… far out, Bills go to cop out when questioned in the house re Barclay over the last month.
         • ianmac 2.1.1.1.2

           8 August 2017 at 11:12 am

           In “Official capacity.” Bill repeatedly says “not in my Ministerial capacity.”
           So any more that Winston has could be interesting even if not in the PM’s official capacity.
           • mickysavage 2.1.1.1.2.1

             8 August 2017 at 11:27 am

             They were to a Parliamentary staffer. The other possibility is that they are potential evidence in a police investigation. Either way they should be disclosed.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               8 August 2017 at 12:12 pm

               They were to a Parliamentary staffer.

               Which does tend to indicate that they were official.
               • Cinny …

                 8 August 2017 at 1:01 pm

                 +1
   • Pat 2.2

     8 August 2017 at 6:33 pm

     hats…
3. Brendan 3

   8 August 2017 at 10:56 am

   Seems like very deliberate and cynical timing by Newshub.

   Two Green MPs have jumped ship.

   Quick! Quick! Get the poll that makes English look bad out now so it’s buried under the Green shit-storm.
   • Cinny 3.1

     8 August 2017 at 11:09 am

     Lola, not even Brendan, not even. Wait and see, more to come…. this is far more serious than a difference of opinion.
   • mac1 3.2

     8 August 2017 at 11:16 am

     Funny, Brendan, but my reaction was the opposite- that the continued English saga might distract from the Greens’ plight.

     “Prime Minister Bill English says he has no record of the alleged 450 texts he sent to Glenys Dickson, the woman at the centre of the Todd Barclay secret recording scandal.

     When asked if he deleted them he repeatedly replied “I don’t a have record of them”.”

     As good as admitting he has destroyed the evidence and allegations of sex, drugs and folderol behaviour will continue to plague this corrupt and parlous government.
   • Delia 3.3

     8 August 2017 at 11:22 am

     Actually I thought it was the other way around and why delete texts? Just makes people even more suspicious. Like that tape that either exists or doesn’t exist. Still National can hide behind so called Green chaos.
4. adam 4

   8 August 2017 at 11:06 am

   I’m just waiting for the right wing to jump on English because he broke the law.

   The silence is deafening…
   • D'Esterre 4.1

     8 August 2017 at 10:46 pm

     Adam: “I’m just waiting for the right wing to jump on English because he broke the law. ”

     In my view, English ought to have resigned already over his handling of the Barclay scandal; he should also have resigned over the double dipping thing all those years ago.

     Given that the latter didn’t happen, I don’t hold out much hope that the former will, either. But the fact remains that a pollie with any principles and ethics would by now have decamped. That English is hanging in there says everything we need to know about his character.
5. red-blooded 5

   8 August 2017 at 11:22 am

   Interesting wording to the question – “Have you lost some trust..?” I would have found that hard to answer, simply because I had bugger all trust in Bill even before the Barclay affair.
6. ianmac 6

   8 August 2017 at 11:44 am

   Question Time today
   “No 2: Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements on the Todd Barclay matter; if so, how does he actually do that?”

   Could be interesting.
   • Cinny 6.1

     8 August 2017 at 1:00 pm

     Good, will be tuned in for sure.
7. tc 7

   8 August 2017 at 12:01 pm

   nothing to fear if you’ve nothing to hide Bill which you obviously do.

   Yet another reason shonky left him holding the baby, which is a very apt depiction of toddy.
8. Draco T Bastard 8

   8 August 2017 at 12:04 pm

   Police investigation into Todd Barclay is on – but Bill English’s texts have been destroyed.. And he won’t say when it happened.

   I suspect that it happened right after Winston brought them up in the House.

   But is anyone really surprised by this?

   National will do anything to prevent the law from being applied to them.

   We really do need to make this deleting of MPs emails/texts and other communication records illegal with a five year jail time.
   • dukeofurl 8.1

     8 August 2017 at 1:15 pm

     The events were around 2 years ago, even high end phones have a limit on txts they store. of course archiving is possible.
     • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1

       8 August 2017 at 1:39 pm

       They don’t have to be stored on the phone although these days claiming not enough memory on the phone really isn’t viable.

       Texts = 150 bytes
       Memory = 16GBytes
       Total texts capable of being held ~= 100,000,000

       In fact, we should probably have it so that any texts and other communication by an official phone get automatically sent to a secure server to ensure that they don’t get lost anyway.

       In fact, it’s probable that the company that the texts were sent through has a copy of them.

       And then the recipient probably has a copy as well.

       And there’s still the point that Blinglish seems to have purposefully deleted official communications.
       • dukeofurl 8.1.1.1

         8 August 2017 at 5:22 pm

         Thats not how it works. Software , videos, pictures and apps take up most of that.

         What would be the limit is the size of the Index which knows where each message is.
         • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.1

           8 August 2017 at 6:32 pm

           Thats not how it works.

           I know how it works. I’ve been working on computers a long time.

           I bought myself a cheap phone, it’s got 32GB capacity and I’m using 11GB. I doubt if Blinglish or other MPs have lesser phones and that they’re using up huge amounts of space for video, apps and pictures. Chances are they’ve got 16GB left.

           And even if they’re a little short at 500MB (~3,000,000 texts) they’d still have more than enough to hold all their texts for when they’re in parliament.

           To make it very clear: Storage is not an issue.
           • tc 8.1.1.1.1.1

             8 August 2017 at 7:00 pm

             Yup Storage is almost certainly not the issue, being caught out and held accountable is yet again the issue with this mob.
9. rhinocrates 9

   8 August 2017 at 1:39 pm

   Is that some sort of koan like, “What is the sound of one hand clapping?”

   A barber shaves all men who do not shave themselves, so who then shaves the barber?
   Can you prove that there is not a teapot in orbit around the sun?
   Enrico Fermi asks, “Where is everybody?”
   What walks on four legs at dawn, two legs at noon and has wheels in the evening?
   Does the Pope shit in the woods?
   Are bears Catholic?
   Do you believe a Cretan who says that all Cretans are liars?
   What is the Ninth Commandment?
   Do you believe a Nat who says he’s telling the truth?
   Would you buy a used house in Dipton from this man?

   Or:

   How can you lose what you never had?
10. ianmac 10

    8 August 2017 at 2:34 pm

    “Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements on the Todd Barclay matter; if so, how does he actually do that?”

    Winston quoted the text of some Texts. Therefore he does have some of the content. Bill’s response was to avoid answering with the help of the Speaker even though was matching text with the PM’s media session yesterday.
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=196523
11. adam 11

    8 August 2017 at 3:30 pm

    Four hours and not one Tory has come out and condemned bill english for breaking the law.

    What gives?
    • tc 11.1

      8 August 2017 at 4:23 pm

      The usual levels of hypocrisy are in play so it’s crickets and tumbleweeds
    • savenz 11.2

      8 August 2017 at 4:46 pm

      @ Adam, The Tories are united in their lack of morality, personal interest in surveillance and a lack of respect for women and human rights, perhaps.
      • adam 11.2.1

        8 August 2017 at 5:11 pm

        We should not forget racist, they have played that card in the last week. I see hooten is playing it now with all the vigor of a frustrated two year old.
        • tc 11.2.1.1

          8 August 2017 at 7:10 pm

          Hooten is classic hollowmen material.

          Looks reasonable and talks confidently however no stoop too low, no lie too big, no spin too tenuous, not bothered if he puts someone at risk.

          Little wonder he’s afforded soapboxes to push their agenda.
        • Gabby 11.2.1.2

          8 August 2017 at 8:33 pm

          He hasn’t been slagging off pale males has he? What a shithead.
12. Paul Campbell 12

    8 August 2017 at 5:08 pm

    But when I send a text there ends up being two copies (3 if you count the gcsb’s copy)

    All Bill is saying is that he deleted his copy … My guess is that someone counted the other copy to get 450
    • dukeofurl 12.1

      8 August 2017 at 5:24 pm

      Clearly the person who was sent the txts has passed them on. Wasnt Glenys Dickson working as an electorate agent for NZ First ?
    • dukeofurl 12.2

      8 August 2017 at 5:26 pm

      Some phones will sync data to be backed up on cloud storage. messages could be included
    • tc 12.3

      8 August 2017 at 7:14 pm

      Bill will be very nervous if a new govt ask the spooks, they’ll have the texts however they’re mostly handpicked Nats.
13. Gabby 13

    8 August 2017 at 6:07 pm

    Some kind soul could offer to recover them.
14. ianmac 14

    8 August 2017 at 8:18 pm

    Because Winston was able to quote the contents of one text, Bill will be worrying tonight about what else will Winston drip feed? Sleep well Bill.
    Remember the NAt/Act the “NO” hunt of Winston in 2007 (?) Winston will remember.

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