English puts super back on the line

Written By: - Date published: 1:41 pm, March 4th, 2017 - 93 comments
Categories: bill english, superannuation - Tags: , , ,

In what was apparently a pretty dire interview on The Nation this morning, Bill English dropped one bombshell:

Bill English won’t make same superannuation promise as John Key

Talking to Three’s The Nation, Prime Minister Bill English said people need to know what’s happening before the election, hinting there could be tweaks made.

I’m surprised, and I’m going to say good on English for committing to getting his policy out there before the election.

But with Mr Key’s departure, the fiscally conservative new Prime Minister says it’s a chance to “reset” expectations, with an aging population and more people working into their late 60s.

“I haven’t made the same undertaking as John, so we have the opportunity for a bit of a reset there.” But whether that means a change to the age of eligibility or its annual indexing to wages, he won’t say. “You’ll just have to wait and see. We would not anticipate any drastic changes.”

So we have a complete reversal from 2014. This time round it is Labour promising to leave super unchanged, and National proposing changes. For the record I believe that changes should be made to reduce the cost of super (as long as any rise in the age of eligibility has exceptions for manual workers or others whose health forces early retirement). Given our population structure we need to make savings in the cost of super in cases where the elderly are able to take care of themselves, and use the savings to reduce poverty and create opportunities for the young.

In short, I think English is right on this. For a change. Sure would have helped if he hadn’t stupidly gutted the Cullen fund though.

93 comments on “English puts super back on the line ”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    Sure would have helped if he hadn’t stupidly gutted the Cullen fund though.

    In what way?

    It’s not money that’s going to keep all of us out of poverty but productivity and our productivity isn’t increasing enough because we’re not diversifying enough. We’re still far too dependent upon farming especially in a warming world where we’re going to have to regenerate most of our farmland back into native bush.

    The biggest problem that we have, IMO, is that we keep focussing upon money rather than the reality that surrounds us.

    • Sacha 1.1

      “In what way?”

      He has renounced a way to make the future cost more pre-paid, and without offering any others.

      • Glenn 1.1.1

        Agree.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

        You can’t pre-pay the cost. No matter what, all that will be available is what will be physically available through the work done at the time.

        And that comes back to productivity and the fact that productivity isn’t rising fast enough to have everyone retire at 65.

        People try to put it in terms of money but that just hides the physical reality and thus prevents understanding.

  2. Antoine 2

    Seems promising

    A.

  3. English said he would let voters know what National views on Super before the election, but regardless of what he says, and what Labour might say, if NZ First call the shots in forming the next Government then any changes to the entitlement age or indexing of payments are likely to be one of the first and most emphatic things off the negotiating table.

  4. Carolyn_nth 4

    On the Nation discussion about English’s comment about super, they talked about the possibility of changing the 10 year rule for immigrants to 25 years. they also talked about how NZ First would influence a 4th term Nat-led government, by vetoing any change to age of elligibility.

    The last I looked, the NZ First policy was that the amount of eligibility for super was related to the amount of time a person has lived in NZ. This then stops the situation where Kiwis who have lived overseas – in the UK and Aussie mainly – have their income from overseas pensions gets deducted from their NZ super entitlement. Thus WINZ forces people to apply for overseas pensions, of which the Aussie form is a trial.

    the NZ First policy looks to me much easier to administer, and also responds to criticisms of recent immigrants getting the full entitlement of super.

  5. Lots of moving targets.

  6. Sanctuary 6

    Change the age of super eligibility? Bye Bye Bill.

    • NewsFlash 6.1

      The age of eligibility should NOT be changed, but I don’t understand why we’re paying millionaires and the very wealthy, personally I think asset testing is the only fair change that can be made to the super system, the point that the Nats simply didn’t care about the future of ordinary Kiwi’s by decimating the super fund set by Cullen is evidence enough to know who will likely bear the brunt of any changes.

      Failure of the Nats to recognise the looming problem of the number of super recipients as a percentage of the number of employed will be a serious problem for whoever is in charge.

      Failure to have a super scheme that is payed for by the employer is the BIGGEST mistake of all, wages are too low to expect ordinary workers to fund out there own income, in places like Aus, where the super has been going since the 80’s, has generated a huge amount of wealth for many, being redistributed throughout the economy, the difference in foresight (Aus) and the head in the sand policy from the Nats.

      Asset testing is the only Fair way to alter the current scheme, those who don’t need it, shouldn’t receive it.

      • dv 6.1.1

        There is a form of asset testing by the tax system.

        • Carolyn_nth 6.1.1.1

          Yep. And on the Nation today, Blinglish said the super fund was in a healthy state – better than they had anticipated because of the increased number of 65+ people working.

          Of course, while working, part or full time, seniors are also paying tax.

          The problem with the wealthy is too many avoid paying tax. For wealthy and diligent tax payers there probably is little money (if any) for them in applying for super. It isn’t automatically given to people when they reach 65. Why bother applying if it all goes in tax payments?

          • dukeofurl 6.1.1.1.1

            Something like 20% of the super payout comes back in taxes from the over 65s.
            There could be ways of getting those who are asset rich but cash poor .
            We used to have death duties but national gutted that along with gift taxes and the pay as you earn super that Muldoon abolished.
            Is there no end to nationals clumsy handling of these issues.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2

        The age of eligibility should NOT be changed, but I don’t understand why we’re paying millionaires and the very wealthy, personally I think asset testing is the only fair change that can be made to the super system

        You’re asking the wrong question.

        Why are people paid millions of dollars?
        Why are people paid for ownership of a business but do no work?

        The problem isn’t that we’d be paying everybody a universal income, the problem is that we have millionaires.

        • Good framing of the problem.

          This is why folding super into a UBI as a negative tax intercept instead of the current system is actually more sustainable: Because it allows us to raise the effective level of tax on millionaires, effectively “eating” their UBI without ever talking about eligibility levels or having to spend money administering asset tests.

        • NewsFlash 6.1.2.2

          DB

          You know the answer to your questions, but at the moment, this is how things work in the real world, some millionaires actually worked pretty damn hard to get there, but as you know there are many freeloaders as well.

          Many wealthy retirees boast about their benefits around investment and how little tax they need to pay, at the expense of those who don’t have the same opportunities.

          There will always be individuals who have more than others, no matter what the socio economic system is, some seek material rewards in life, while others find value in non material rewards.

          A UBI is not answer to the problem either, as it does not address the route cause, it’s just a sticking plaster, a temporary fix.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2.2.1

            some millionaires actually worked pretty damn hard to get there

            IIRC, it’s less than 5%. All the rest inherited it.

            And that 5% is dropping.

      • mikesh 6.1.3

        The surcharge, introduced by Labour in the eighties and scrapped, somewhat reluctantly, by Bolger in the early nineties, achieved much the same thing.

        • dukeofurl 6.1.3.1

          Not at all. Bolger increased the ‘surcharge ‘ from 20 to 25% and exemption lowered ,contrary to their election promises and made other changes such as age of entitlement moved up from 60 to 65 ( 2001)
          It was Peters and his coalition which forced Bolger to backtrack after 96.

          http://www.goodreturns.co.nz/article/976486067/super-history-understanding-recent-changes.html

          Muldoons scheme had pension at The original legislation had provided for gross pensions to be set at 80 percent of gross ordinary time wages.

          1998 the National minority government introduced and passed legislation that:
          • removed the 65 percent “floor” on the pension wage ratio
          • specified that New Zealand Superannuation was to be adjusted on the basis of prices subject to a new 60 percent pension-wage ratio floor.

          Which was partly reversed :
          Labour-Alliance coalition which took office after the 1999 election reversed the pension-wage ratio decision of the previous government. It announced the restoration of a 65 percent floor for the ratio of the married couple rate of NZ Superannuation to average net ordinary time wages

          Along with $2 billion per year to the Super fund

          You see how national has wrecked the whole process all along

      • Thinkerr 6.1.4

        Superannuation is not another welfare benefit, that’s why means testing is inappropriate.

        It’s also why it should be regarded separately in the government accounts, and not tinkered with to balance the books.

    • fisiani 6.2

      Having to work another 3 or 6 or 9 months is hardly political poison.

  7. infused 7

    It’s not surprising. He’s always said he’d change it.

  8. Ad 8

    If Prime Minister English proposed limiting NZ SUPER eligibility for immigrants who’d been here 20 plus years, I’d support it and I think many other New Zealanders would as well.

    This government won’t change just on housing issues alone.

    • I don’t quite understand – if someone has made their home here for over 20 years you would want to restrict or limit their entitlement to NZ Super?

      Have I got that right?

      and if that is correct – why do you think that’s a good idea?

      • Ad 8.1.1

        Limit the liability.
        Retirement Commissioner is very keen on it.

        Need a higher benchmark on immigration.

        • marty mars 8.1.1.1

          maybe those that don’t need it should get a cut amount (to keep the universal bit) or be means tested, or property/capital gains taxed (reduce liability) and those that do – say Māori for instance get theirs early – after all the life expectancy is lower for Māori (less liability) and there are often major commitments for kaumatua from a cultural point of view.

          • Ad 8.1.1.1.1

            Administratively messy and full of bureaucratic make work.

            I think sending a signal to new migrants that we only support permanent super as a benefit only to those with absolute commitment to the country would be proper.

            Could also consider stopping it altogether and permanently for any citizen who is on else as more than 6 months. If they can afford that scale of jaunt, they don’t need it.

            Need to keep universality but shave off the edges indirectly.

  9. Michael 9

    Do you have a private pension fund, Anthony Robins, just like Bill English (albeit paid by taxpayers)? I also think the qualifying age for NZ Super should be increased, except for those who cannot work because their health won’t stand it. But that raises a problem: who gets to determine disability? For years now, a small cabal of second-rate doctors have been making a fortune, conducting medicolegal assessments of disability for ACC, managing insurers and, now, WINZ. In these characters’ opinions (which the legal system treats as sacrosanct) everyone can still do a full week’s work, irrespective of their health condition. It is virtually impossible to challenge the ipse dixit statements of the medical police. Without a clean out of their ranks a fair means of assessing disability will remain impossible and hundreds of thousands of elderly New Zealanders will be shafted. Of course, few of them are likely to be within Labour’s new target demography, so I guess there’s no harm in whacking the retirement age up to 75, as Treasury recommended a few years ago.

    • weka 9.1

      On those grounds alone the retirement age should never be touched. If we ever manage to change the culture in NZ away from bashing ill and disabled people or entrenching the deserving ill meme, then maybe we can then look at fair ways to raise the Super age. But in the meantime there is no way to do this policy change that won’t both hurt individuals and add to the culture of bash a sick person that NZ has developed. The state certainly is not to be trusted as per your examples of ACC and WINZ (I would add the MoH in there too). Also, where there is a clear conflict of interest between people’s need to cap budgets and them being in an assessing role, it just shouldn’t be happening.

      • Carolyn_nth 9.1.1

        Yep. And for seniors who only get super and don’t own property or have savings, super isn’t enough to live on. They may physically be up to working part time to supplement their super, but not sturdy enough to work full time.

        • Michael 9.1.1.1

          That’s not what the medical police will report (in return for the usual consideration).

    • Red Hand 9.2

      An accurate means of assessing disability is preferable to a fair means because an accurate assessment will be more predictive of outcome, based as it is on research findings.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20482853

      Fairness by comparison is too subjective, exemplified by your presumably subjective “second-rate doctors” assessment, which is a trivial opinion, unless you have some credible data to back it up.

      • Michael 9.2.1

        Medicolegal assessment of disability is now iredeemably politicised. Not sure how to post links here but there’s plenty of it. The people shafted by your friends, Red Hand (aka the “second rate doctors”) feel believe it is far from “trivial”.

  10. fisiani 10

    Bill might raise the age of eligibility to 75 or perhaps 70.

    • I hope that’s his announcement, if that’s all there is to it, I can’t see him winning the election with that anchor around his neck.

      Boomers are just starting to get Super, if he takes it away from them they are gonna be mad as hell.

    • NewsFlash 10.2

      What would Bill do for an income for 5 to 10 years if he did that.

      I thought yo would be more concerned about the non citizen changes that affect those who have not in lived in NZ for 20 years.

      • fisiani 10.2.1

        The 75 year eligibility will not come into force until 2058 . A raise of just 3/12 every year. i.e. 2022 66 2026 67….

  11. mac1 11

    “Hence, Prime Minister John Key has said he would rather retire than touch Super. Labour campaigned on raising the age to 67, but lost badly, and have now backed down” 25 May 2016.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80223200/Budget-2016-Can-we-afford-the-superannuation-status-quo

    Six months later, Key retires.

    Meanwhile English states that he is not bound by a John Key promise, which is surely Party policy, and two elections were fought with this as a major difference between Labour and National, no doubt influencing many superannuitant-oriented votes.

    Another broken promise? Was this a reason for Key’s hasty departure?

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      Was this a reason for Key’s hasty departure?

      Probably.

      National know that they’ve screwed over the economy and that they’re going to have to put the bill on the poor so as not to tax the rich.

      • greg 11.1.1

        this is from the party that sabotaged every attempt to pre fund super in the last 40 years these wankers cost the cullen fund billions they cut kiwi saver this is the party that has blown up the property bubble to point of creating a debt bomb and savers are paying by being screwed over with low interest rates i am gen x there is no way we should except being fucked over by national they were quite happy to screw our future for the benefit of property owning baby boomer’s .its about time the national reap what they have sowed

  12. Enough is Enough 12

    r0b I have never quite understood your support for cutting the eligibility to Super.

    Increased costs for Super is not a reason to make cuts. If you buy into that argument then you should support National with all their other cuts. Lets look at health, with an ageing population costs are increasing. Lets just cuts people’s eligibility to public health.

    That is what National like to do.

    Or we could look at the other side of the balance sheet and see how we fund Super. Lets collect tax to pay for Super rather than cut it.

    • solkta 12.1

      Super and Public Health are not comparable. Public Health is available to all citizens whether they need it or not. Super is available to only those over 65 whether they need it or not.

      • Enough is Enough 12.1.1

        No shit sherlock

        The point I am making is you don’t cut elegibilty to something because it is getting expensive. You get a better funding model.

        The right cut cost

        The left look after people and find ways to fund it.

        • solkta 12.1.1.1

          The current Super model is looking after wealthy people by giving them a welfare benefit they do not need. My father has used his for spending money on his annual European holiday. That is not a left wing thing but just stupidity. These people have a sense of entitlement because Muldoon made them a promise that was not sustainable.

          • weka 12.1.1.1.1

            “My father has used his for spending money on his annual European holiday.”

            You mean he chose that over paying rent and eating?

            • solkta 12.1.1.1.1.1

              I’m not sure what you mean. I think my father paid rent for three years when he was first married.

      • Actually Super prevents a lot of issues that would cause problems to the health system. It’s led to us having a markedly low level of poverty for seniors. It’s been a highly successful, if costly, policy.

        There are ways to transition to a less costly system that’s less of a giveaway to more wealthy seniors while still retaining that success. Further eligibility tests are costly and will make Super more difficult to get, so seem like a poor answer, even though the principle behind them is reasonable: people who can already support their own retirement will need less government assistance. I highly suspect Bill’s answer is going to be to simply cut elibility, when it’s at least partly his fault the government will have difficult affording Super costs soon, because of his wasteful tax cuts and refusal continue payments to the Super fund.

        (Of course, there will need to be some progress about that transition by the time boomers are solidly on Super, because it will quickly escalate costs if we continue to fund retirement for the already-wealthy when so much of our population falls into the qualifying bracket for Super, so he’s right to have the discussion)

        • Carolyn_nth 12.1.2.1

          RNZ article tonight, says that Super has become more affordable than 15 years ago, because people are working for longer.

          Little says:

          <blockquotethe government's decision to stop contributing to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund meant there was now a $20 billion funding gap.

          Mr Little said Labour would not raise the age of eligibility and would resume making payments to the fund.

          • solkta 12.1.2.1.1

            I think you mean to say that the RNZ article says that English says..

          • Matthew Whitehead 12.1.2.1.2

            Super being more affordable at the moment doesn’t change the maths of it not being affordable in its current form in the long-run. I don’t support changing the age or means-testing as the best solutions, but we can’t continue to subsidise retirement for people who are already wealthy in perpetuity.

            Besides, even though Super has done great things, it was never conceived as what it was today. Most people died before being eligible for Super when it was implemented, it’s just nobody ever updated the ages to keep the policy the same, so it’s gotten progressively more generous as medicine has kept people healthy longer. It’s not unreasonable to say that we can try and keep the good things its done for keeping seniors out of poverty, while still setting it up so that we’re actually spending the money where it’s needed most, while still maintaining the accessibility of the fact the only gating to Super was age-based.

            If we set up a proper basic income system that’s properly funded, we can have it do the same thing Super’s done for the whole population, on a sustainable basis, and it will be much harder to repeal or “reform,” because every single voter will be on the side of keeping it for self-interested reasons, not just seniors and soon-to-be-seniors.

            • Carolyn_nth 12.1.2.1.2.1

              I don’t know the figures for super re- continued sustainability with the current system.

              I do agree we need a very good, comprehensive, cradle-to-the-grave social security system. That means a big overhaul of the entire system as various aspects of society are interwoven.

              Everything now is tarnished by the growing/entrenched wealth and income inequality gap — most noticeable at the top and bottom 10%.

              I notice many comfortably middle-class people in their 60s and 50s have health/medical insurance. So they get fast-track attention, while the elderly relying on the public system are languishing on big queues, waiting for attention.

              And elderly on fixed incomes in Auckland are struggling with ever increasing rates, rent and other essential bills. Meanwhile younger people are also struggling to find affordable housing, a living income, to pay the bills, etc.

              Meanwhile the speculators, real estate moguls and investment bankers are creaming it.

              • Whispering Kate

                I don’t know who your friends are but the modestly comfortable middle-class I know , got a hell of a fright when they reached 65 at the rate their Private Health Insurance was rarked up. There is nobody I know who is modestly comfortable who is still paying out their monthly premiums. Instead they are placing their health in the hands of a precarious health system and going on lists a mile long for treatment. Only the very wealthy can keep up sustained pricey premiums on an on-going long term basis.

                • Carolyn_nth

                  Hmmm. Interesting. I wouldn’t describe anyone I know as very wealthy. Just professional people – from lower level professionals to more business types.

                  Though not all are in their 60s. And only 1 or 2 are over 65.

                  My GP seems to treat me as a bit unusual in not having health insurance – me being a well educated person in an Auckland, renting in a fairly central suburb.

                  Most own their own homes – and one in late 50s in Auckland has health insurance and is a renter. Can’t afford to buy.

                  So, yes, I’d pretty much describe them as mostly modestly comfortable middle class. Maybe a couple could be described as comfortable middle class. But not very wealthy.

        • solkta 12.1.2.2

          Yes, but if we paid Super to everybody that would prevent a lot more issues that do cause problems to the health system.

          I’m not saying that we should leave old people high and dry. A means tested benefit at a similar amount would have achieved the same result.

          • Matthew Whitehead 12.1.2.2.1

            I support a UBI at a level comparable to NZ Super and Super being rolled into that UBI with conditional assistance for those in additional need, combined with a tax package that will pay for it in a way that will effectively get us to the same place as means-testing, and will also treat the UBI as a negative income tax for those not in employment. For those in employment, we can have a simplified income tax, and they’ll still get a fraction of the UBI if they’re earning under a certain amount, which will likely taper off around $45k annually, but actually depending on what exact settings you use for the UBI and simplified tax.

            Super as-is won’t be there for my generation, full stop, and we all know it, the maths of the costs of super and the demographics of Boomers going onto it aren’t deniable. It’s part of why Kiwisaver was implemented. So we need something new. And trying to get rid of a UBI will be even harder than cutting Super if Labour implements a good one with help from the Greens, and sets the basic income to a level that’s livable, say starting at $20k for every adult. (There are arguments it should go higher, but $20k is definitely affordable if coupled with some basic wealth taxes like a CGT, and starting lower will allow time for the savings from universalising benefits to become apparent. Savings? Yep, it’s likely to reduce medical costs, lower the number of remaining conditional benefits needed, and address) This will simplify welfare provision, get most people out of the WINZ office, and let them focus on actually providing help to people who genuinely need it instead of trying to kick people off benefits.

            Means testing is actually an expensive and inefficient way to solve the problem, it will make it even less convenient to apply for super than it is now, and it frames the issue the wrong way.

            Besides, I don’t want someone whose wealth suddenly dries up to suddenly have to re-apply. We should make the process easier than that, and integrating a UBI into the tax system is a great way to do it all easily and transparently.

            • solkta 12.1.2.2.1.1

              I’ve been a supporter of UBI for a long time but I think it would be really hard to sell it to the public. I think it would be great if the Greens and Labour could introduce it but my concern would be that it would cost them an election before they could get it fully implemented.

              • I think any serious attempt at a UBI would need to start at the beginning of a government’s term in office so it could get off the ground and functioning and people get used to the transfers before the next election.

                I think a proper UBI would be unpopular with the wealthy, but massively popular with everyone else. It would play out similarly to Working For Families in terms of the political optics: the Right would hate it, right up until their less wealthy supporters actually started getting it, then it would be political suicide not to support it in some limited form. They’d most likely try to “death by a thousand cuts” it by lowering the benefit level gradually, or repeal the tax offsets required to make it affordable, if they felt emboldened enough to touch it.

                I think you underestimate how well a UBI will play, especially one that’s structured not to entirely abate payments for people who work for what are currently low wages. The real winner of a UBI is people who’d still get roughly half the benefit while in low-paid jobs to supplement their income.

                Much of the incentive against getting into work on the benefit is that abatement formula. If you’re forced to take a shitty job instead of getting kicked off the benefit, you’re often getting paid no different, and you’re in a job you expect won’t be around for long that you hate while you’re trying to find something more permanent. I expect in the long-run, a UBI will actually address unemployment better than Jobseeker Support does. It’s possible that will not make a difference with benefit-bashers, but if they really care about people getting into work they should actually be happy, and they should be happy that it’ll give them better income security, letting them switch jobs more easily, or even take a break between jobs to study something new and change directions.

                • solkta

                  I think bene-bashing is a big thing in this country and not just on the right. You would be basically selling an idea that we should pay people to do nothing, or at least that is how many and maybe most would see it. For a government to implement it at the start of their term it would have to be policy at the election just passed lest they be be toast at the next. I think there is many years of developing the idea needed and perhaps some success in other countries before Green/Labour could win an election on it.

                  • The evidence actually shows it works better than restricting payments in getting people into employment though, so why shouldn’t we do it? And if the government is quick on their feet, they could have two or more years of evidence that the unemployment rate actually went down afterwards.

                    Most people if they’re given the support they need will go on to work. Not all of them, because sometimes there are other issues that come down to more than money, (gang involvement, drug abuse, undiagnosed mental illness can all be contributory to unemployment) but that’s why we’ll still need social workers and conditional benefits even after the UBI replaces Jobseeker Support. It may sound naive to skeptical bene bashers, but humans want to be respected, want to do things, and like extra money. If you can earn more by getting a job, even if you can survive on the UBI, why not try?

                    The idea isn’t to “pay people to do nothing.” Most people want to do something with their lives, it might not work out the way they planned, and they might need help, but most people want to do some sort of work, it’s how we’re wired, and the people who give up are often depressed because they legitimately can’t find work. WINZ’s engagement with the unemployed could then be switched to helping them solve any non-financial issues, to employment coaching for those having legitimate trouble, and basically a more constructive engagement with the community than their current adversarial relationship. At worst, you’re paying some deadbeat to produce bad poetry and get by at a cheap rental eating mince on toast. Besides, you might also get a lot of good poetry in the mix. Or a great New Zealand novel.

                    If they’re getting the UBI and can’t find a job, then they’re more likely to volunteer for charity work or help out their local community, because they’ll be under less time pressure to fulfill WINZ’s crazy requirements. Unpaid work is hugely valuable, and it’s possible a UBI would cause people to re-prioritise their time and make more volunteer hours available.

                    Besides, the workers technically get the UBI too, even if their income tax will sometimes exceed it. The settings I modeled had everyone under the average wage paying less tax, and everyone under about $44k p/a being net UBI recipients, although you could structure things less generously if you wanted to be less aggressive on collecting taxes from sources other than income. It’s perfectly fair to all workers, and it can be paid for largely out of wealth taxes and the direct savings it provides in retiring the programs it’d replace such as Jobseeker Support and NZ Super. My model *assumed* a lot of people would quit their jobs or take less hours, and even that about 50,000 extra people would register for tax to receive the UBI, and it still worked out to make the government an extra $700m compared to the current income tax regime.

                    The media bashed the UBI policies because they made no mentions of cost offsets or savings from the policy, which are natural concerns as the raw cost of a generous UBI could be as much as $70-90 billion. (my model had a gross cost of $72b) If they’re educated about the benefits and the fact that the costs are in fact manageable with reasonable tax offsets, it won’t be so controversial.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  It’s possible that will not make a difference with benefit-bashers, but if they really care about people getting into work they should actually be happy, and they should be happy that it’ll give them better income security, letting them switch jobs more easily, or even take a break between jobs to study something new and change directions.

                  And that is why businesses will absolutely hate it. They’ll have to pay people and treat them well enough for them to come to work.

                  National’s attacks on beneficiaries has nothing to do with how much it costs – it has to do with forcing people into work and thus lower wages.

                  A UBI that actually gives people choice? Yeah, nah, they won’t support that – ever.

                  • Well, that kinda depends. If you’re an employer whose jobs are in high demand, you probably like the prospect of increased portabality between employers, because it will afford you the possibility to poach workers from other people who have been under-utilised. If you’re say, a shitty temping agency, maybe not so much.

                    Of course, on this site I think most people know which of those two types of employer is breathing more heavily down the necks of the National Party, and would love to destroy any UBI as soon as it’s implemented. But it’s not employers who are the majority of beneficiary bashers. It’s middle-class people who don’t know better, but should. The question of whether going full-on wealth taxes and going for a UBI rather than simply funding Super makes sense comes down to whether you think those people are more persuadable by us than by employers. I think they are.

              • Do you mean the coming election?

                • solkta

                  No. UBI is not current policy for either party but just something they are both looking at. When Labour floated the idea a while back they got a bit of a hiding in the media.

                  • Thanks. got a bit scared things were perhaps being rushed. Seems to me english and co are going to have to announce their intentions in perhaps the budget re super,-Andrew and Greens can sit back until after any announcement.

                    • solkta

                      I think you will see a very careful and considered approach by the Greens to UBI. They are not like Labour, they do not change policy as if underpants.

        • greywarshark 12.1.2.3

          Get real Bill English. Why raise super cost, and make people look for jobs that younger people could do. The farce of being forced to go to workshops on how to get a job when you are over 55 is bad enough, but when you are 65!

          And the diminished self-respect you feel if you have to trail round as a rather tired old body looking for some dead end poorly paid job that stops you being able to plan your life! Keep it as it is and require everyone who receives super to do some useful task in the community. Professional people could do pro bono work, there could be reading help, gardening help, cutting back clematis or other weeds, there could be more help with so called wrap around services for disabled people and their carers in the community.

          All would have to find something to do if they were mentally fit. If they were disabled, they would be able to join a group getting transport to their work in their area. Or the able bodied could help out with seasonal work, supervising trainee young people.
          The wealthy would gradually take a 33 per cent drop for doing nothing for the community, and the community services card group would lose 10%.

          Don’t stop older people getting super, get them doing jobs that need doing. Volunteer NZ would be over the moon. People could get one-off help with tasks beyond their capacity. There’s too much of the second childhood with super these days, all centred on self as if money grows on trees. And that’s justified with ‘I’ve paid taxes all my life’. The answer to that is that they were spent on and around you at the time you paid them. Also the fact that super comes out of current tax, and no-one can reliably save enough to fund old age. Funds crash, assets disappear, fraud is carried out by the wealthy looking for a quick return on some deal. Bang go your savings.

          Pay part of the super in NZ vouchers that have to be spent in NZ within a month, and not on food, but on local industry. Be creative, we can afford the administration if we start being more generous with social welfare eligibility and therefore not needing the Scrooges there. Cut it all out and get people registering for volunteer work, and get paid a living wage for that plus a base benefit. Sounds like UBI perhaps?

        • jcuknz 12.1.2.4

          If you asset test super you remove the need to save during the working life.
          although I have read indirect argument against my position above I think any change should be downwards to look after those whose working life is shorter than the average … lets say 50 and ability tested [health-wise] up to 70.*

          I was made redundant at 59 and existed on the dole at $7 a week or fortnight for about a year until Muldoon’s 60 pension took effect.. But was still healthy enough to build a retirement cottage. But also my savings lost out by about 20% because of the reduced work period. So many flies in the ointment.

          I suggest taxation is the way to claw back from those who do not need super but with realistic allowance which doesn’t discourage saving during one’s worklife. By the by with employers contribution I was saving 15% and this had gradually built up over the years from quite a low rate on a low starting salary so I view the Cullen fund deductions as foolishly small. Plus having private funds running it is a complete scam where they earn big salaries while savings suffer,

          *Reasonable in full employment times but today I doubt it. another fly

      • Andrea 12.1.3

        “Public Health is available to all citizens whether they need it or not. ”

        Eventually. If you make it alive to the head of the waiting list. If there’s a specialist in the country. If you can afford to travel to another region.

        And Super is also conditional.

        • solkta 12.1.3.1

          Super is conditional on what?

          • Carolyn_nth 12.1.3.1.1

            Conditional on not getting a state pension from another country, even though the schemes in other countries are not comparable. Amount of state pensions received from other countries (eg UK, Aussie) gets deducted from NZ super entitlement.

            Also conditional on having lived in NZ a certain amount of time.

    • r0b 12.2

      r0b I have never quite understood your support for cutting the eligibility to Super.

      I’m not happy about it, but I find the population maths compelling.

      Increased costs for Super is not a reason to make cuts. If you buy into that argument then you should support National with all their other cuts.

      No, just that (1) some problems are bigger than others and (2) I don’t understand the logic of giving money to rich old people who don’t need it when there poor / young people who need it desperately.

      Lets collect tax to pay for Super rather than cut it.

      Let’s collect tax to fund a UBI, that’s fair. But tax young workers to pay for those old rich who don’t need it?

      • Or we could actually tax wealth, which we don’t currently do. Ignoring the indirect savings you can’t necessarily count on immediately, you’d need somewhere between $20b and $40b to get a really decent UBI rate, assuming you don’t mind flattening and raising income tax a little in return.

        Vic Uni modelled a CGT with about $16.6b in revenue. That’s most of the way there to the low-end figure. You could institute a proper carbon tax to go with that, or a land tax, and you’re probably home. You could also consider financial transaction taxes or estate taxes in the mix, but those two are more about ethical concerns and behaviour change than they would be about serious revenue offsets, and then you could rely on those indirect savings to bump up the rate towards the current rate of NZ Super.

        The advantage of paying for it with a wealth tax is that it essentially means-tests the UBI already, as the wealthy will be the ones paying for most of it.

      • weka 12.2.2

        “I don’t understand the logic of giving money to rich old people who don’t need it when there poor / young people who need it desperately.”

        Shouldn’t you be arguing for an asset/income tested Super then, rather than raising the eligibility age? Given it’s almost impossible for the state to fairly judge the conditions you want to set (illness/disability and manual labour), why are you arguing the age thing rather than wealth assessment?

        And what about the those that don’t have the exemptions you prefer but aren’t rich?

        (and there is the whole ethnicity thing too).

        • NewsFlash 12.2.2.1

          +1

          A quote from a commenter (who I think has been banned), here on TS a few years ago.

          ” The airplane is full of super recipients heading for the south of France for their annual winter holidays”

          Why should the tax payer fund extravagant holidays for wealthy pensioners?

          The commenter also boasted about have a $1M asset that accrued a 6% return for which no tax was required to be paid.

          There are too many pensioners living week to week to have parasites working the system for their advantage, the govts prepared to crack down on dishonest bene’s, they should apply this across the board, as the pension is a welfare benefit, and cost the country more than 10 times of that of any other benefit.

      • Enough is Enough 12.2.3

        If you can find a way of means testing that actually works then I want to hear it.

        Just like the one that applies to student loans where rich kids receive a full allowance because their filthy rich parents have clever accountants and lawyers.

        Means testing does not work as it is too easy for the wealthy to structure their affairs so that they do not have any personal wealth at all.

        As soon as you remove universality of eligibility you create exceptions and rules which bring about loopholes.

        Don’t look at it as young workers paying for rich old people to retire (that is a similar bullshit argument Farrar’s pulls out with student fees – where he argues why should low paid workers be subsidising future lawyers and doctors).

        • weka 12.2.3.1

          “Means testing does not work as it is too easy for the wealthy to structure their affairs so that they do not have any personal wealth at all.”

          Can you give some examples? e.g. if a family has a Trust, it could be a requirement that that is disclosed (this is already a requirement for WINZ I think).

          • Enough is Enough 12.2.3.1.1

            There is a whole industry centred on doing this very thing called Asset Planning. You structure your affairs so that you have no personal assets at all.

            The Weka Family Trust is structured like this:

            Lawyer A and Accountant B are the trustees and legal owners of all the Trust’s assets (the Million dollar home, the million dollar bach, the two Audis, the boat, the diamond rings)

            The Trust is for the benefit of Weka’s two kids. With the trusts assets being transferred to them on Weka’s death. Weka is however permitted use the Trust’s asset’s during Weka’s lifetime.

            Subsequently Weka has no assets. When Weka fills out Weka’s means tested Super application, Weka can legitimately declare zero assets.

  13. mickysavage 13

    My first thought was you fuckers, you have previously sacrificed the possibility of a decent discussion for purely political reasons.

    Similar to National’s treatment of the climate change issue.

    At least now there can be a discussion. And suddenly the parties are reverting to type.

    Labour should go strong with a UBI.

    • solkta 13.1

      First thought? I still can’t get that thought out of my head. National set up Super and have scuttled every attempt since to make it sustainable. Fuckers just does not cover it.

      • dukeofurl 13.1.1

        Its much much worse than even that.

        Kiwisaver they have sabotaged that as well, Cullen Fund, dropped the annual payments.
        Now English has the cheek to come along and hint at the age of payment and or other cutbacks.

        • Sacha 13.1.1.1

          Selfish short horizons are their thing.
          ‘How can I minimise what I pay now regardless of what others will need to pay in future?’

    • Sacha 13.2

      “Labour should go strong with a UBI”

      Yes please.

      • weka 13.2.1

        Someone should. Unfortunately I’ve yet to see a decent UBI proposal* that won’t make some vulnerable people worse off than they are now, due to loss of supplementary benefits.

        *apart from Matthew Whitehead’s, which puts the UBI rate at the Super rate. That still won’t solve the supplementary benefit issue, but it is a vast improvement on the ones setting the rate at the dole rate.

      • Antoine 13.2.2

        >> “Labour should go strong with a UBI”
        > Yes please.

        +1

        Would be another 3 terms for National

        A.

        • jcuknz 13.2.2.1

          Does that matter A. ? National are pretty left wing already and we just need to curb the RW extremists the party contains. I would be more confident of that if Key had not resigned, for all the KDS displayed here. I never liked the guy by the way.

  14. RedBaronCV 14

    If it’s a right wing party proposing this measure then you can bet with certainty on one thing- the rich will get richer & the poor poorer. The rich are just deciding they can’t afford you.

    And just raising the age is a blunt instrument that will still leave trails of issues behind it. The retirement commissioner also needs to stop being a one trick pony.

    So I think it needs to be a wide ranging discussion covering all age groups. There are a lot of questions to look at:

    Do private savings enable any state pension to be whittled away to next to nothing so the working poor become destitute on retirement?
    Younger age groups that cannot afford to own a house are also forced to save for a retirement from meager earnings – how do we cope with that?
    Does user pays retirement further strip assets from the poor – so there is no inheritance for the poorer sections of society and too much for richer sections?
    Do we continue to import labour when older & younger people are being excluded from the workforce despite being willing to work.
    Does the discriminate against those with lower lifetime earnings – working poor & women?
    Do we have a pension bump for the very elderly – say 85 plus ? so any individual planning is to a known horizon.
    What contribution & engagement in our society is needed before we give welfare benefits? Is 10 year’s residency enough?
    Does a lack of pensions increase family size- the classic response to no pensions?

    But at the heart of all these discussions is a need to redistribute wealth in our society much more fairly than at present ( and so that all get the benefits of increasing automation?)

  15. Glenn 15

    Make the superannuation age 75 …as long as those voting on it pass laws that they can’t receive their parliamentary pension until they are 75 as well. This includes all the perks as well..and cut all this free airflight shit for them and their spouses as well.
    Fucking pariahs!

    They will keep first dibs on their sip of the trough while they expect the great unwashed to work longer before they either get super or pass on. And if you are a Maori the chances are you will not make it to super age.

    They tried this in France a number of years ago and after folk rioted and a dozen or so buses were torched the idea was forgotten.
    Alas we are too complacent.
    AUX BARRICADES !!

  16. fisiani 16

    75 it is.Treasury has decreed it.

  17. millsy 17

    The ones who are going to be shafted by this are those who have spent their lives in insecure or low paid work, and have not been in a position to build any sort of asset base, beyond the family home at least, ACC and supported living/invalid benefit claimants in their early 60’s who are hanging out for National Super to kick in so they dont have to justify the right to that income anymore.

    Moving the pension age or reducing the payments is just going to break a lot of people financially and emotionally.

    All you will have is a large number of elderly homeless people, like you see in the US.

  18. david 18

    Saving in the form of “Cullen” fund is from budget surpluses. We need budget surpluses first. Otherwise it is not savings but bets that sharemarket returns will be better than the cost of debt. I don’t want government gambling with borrowed money.

    • Whispering Kate 18.1

      To release more positions in work for the unemployed why don’t they only pay National Super out to people who quit work permanently after the age of 65. This way retirees could get on with voluntary work by the spades and leave vacant positions for the unemployed.

      How many people working past 65 are there in this country – lots I’ll bet- there are some MP’s I can think of, how many sit on Boards or have honorary positions, even sit on boards of DHB’s perhaps. Its great that they are extending their working lives but it isn’t necessary that they draw the National Super while they are at it. Most retirees still working full time will be in jobs that don’t break their backs and they will be bringing in big money – it doesn’t seem right that they can get National Super as well to supplement their overseas holidays or their fortnightly booze bill.

  19. timeforacupoftea 19

    I would promote a 80% income tax on income over $100,000 per annum.
    Leave age 65 to collect National Super.

    Many people were paying 60% income tax on a fairly low wage in the 1960’s 1970’s

  20. jcuknz 20

    I remember my guardian telling me that he paid 19/6 in the pound on the top of his income at the end of WWII. At the time there was no Health Service and he was paying for his wife’s treatment as she died of cancer, and nursing her too..
    In calculating tax do not forget that not all income is taxed at those high rate, only the top %. Also if you pay 80% income tax that is another 15% GST added on stuff you buy [ 95% ] unless you are a business person and can fiddle expenses.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Surely it won't happen
    I have prepared a bad news sandwich. That is to say, I'm going to try and make this more agreeable by placing on the top and underneath some cheering things.So let's start with a daughter update, the one who is now half a world away but also never farther out ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 hours ago
  • Let Them Eat Sausage Rolls: Hipkins Tries to Kill Labour Again
    Sometimes you despair. You really do. Fresh off leading Labour to its ugliest election result since 1990,* Chris Hipkins has decided to misdiagnose matters, because the Government he led cannot possibly have been wrong about anything. *In 2011 and 2014, people were willing to save Labour’s electorate ...
    16 hours ago
  • Clued Up: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    “But, that’s the thing, mate, isn’t it? We showed ourselves to be nothing more useful than a bunch of angry old men, shaking our fists at the sky. Were we really that angry at Labour and the Greens? Or was it just the inescapable fact of our own growing irrelevancy ...
    21 hours ago
  • JERRY COYNE: A powerful University dean in New Zealand touts merging higher education with indigeno...
    Jerry Coyne writes –  This article from New Zealand’s Newsroom site was written by Julie Rowland,  the deputy dean of the Faculty of Science at the University of Auckland as well as a geologist and the Director of the Ngā Ara Whetū | Centre for Climate, Biodiversity & Society. In other ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • Ain't nobody gonna steal this heart away.
    Ain't nobody gonna steal this heart away.For the last couple of weeks its felt as though all the good things in our beautiful land are under attack.These isles in the southern Pacific. The home of the Māori people. A land of easy going friendliness, openness, and she’ll be right. A ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 day ago
  • Speaking for the future
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.MondayYou cannot be seriousOne might think, god, people who are seeing all this must be regretting their vote.But one might be mistaken.There are people whose chief priority is not wanting to be ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 day ago
  • How Should We Organise a Modern Economy?
    Alan Bollard, formerly Treasury Secretary, Reserve Bank Governor and Chairman of APEC, has written an insightful book exploring command vs demand approaches to the economy. The Cold War included a conflict about ideas; many were economic. Alan Bollard’s latest book Economists in the Cold War focuses on the contribution of ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 days ago
  • Willis fails a taxing app-titude test but govt supporters will cheer moves on Te Pukenga and the Hum...
    Buzz from the Beehive The Minister of Defence has returned from Noumea to announce New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting and (wearing another ministerial hat) to condemn malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government. A bigger cheer from people who voted for the Luxon ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago
  • ELIZABETH RATA: In defence of the liberal university and against indigenisation
    The suppression of individual thought in our universities spills over into society, threatening free speech everywhere. Elizabeth Rata writes –  Indigenising New Zealand’s universities is well underway, presumably with the agreement of University Councils and despite the absence of public discussion. Indigenising, under the broader umbrella of decolonisation, ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the skewed media coverage of Gaza
    Now that he’s back as Foreign Minister, maybe Winston Peters should start reading the MFAT website. If he did, Peters would find MFAT celebrating the 25th anniversary of how New Zealand alerted the rest of the world to the genocide developing in Rwanda. Quote: New Zealand played an important role ...
    2 days ago
  • “Your Circus, Your Clowns.”
    It must have been a hard first couple of weeks for National voters, since the coalition was announced. Seeing their party make so many concessions to New Zealand First and ACT that there seems little remains of their own policies, other than the dwindling dream of tax cuts and the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 8-December-2023
    It’s Friday again and Christmas is fast approaching. Here’s some of the stories that caught our attention. This week in Greater Auckland On Tuesday Matt covered some of the recent talk around the costs, benefits and challenges with the City Rail Link. On Thursday Matt looked at how ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    2 days ago
  • End-of-week escapism
    Amsterdam to Hong Kong William McCartney16,000 kilometres41 days18 trains13 countries11 currencies6 long-distance taxis4 taxi apps4 buses3 sim cards2 ferries1 tram0 medical events (surprisingly)Episode 4Whether the Sofia-Istanbul Express really qualifies to be called an express is debatable, but it’s another one of those likeably old and slow trains tha… ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to Dec 8
    Governor-General Dame Cindy Kiro arrives for the State Opening of Parliament (Photo: Hagen Hopkins/Getty Images)TL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:New Finance Minister Nicola Willis set herself a ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand’s Witchcraft Laws: 1840/1858-1961/1962
    Sometimes one gets morbidly curious about the oddities of one’s own legal system. Sometimes one writes entire essays on New Zealand’s experience with Blasphemous Libel: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2017/05/09/blasphemous-libel-new-zealand-politics/ And sometimes one follows up the exact historical status of witchcraft law in New Zealand. As one does, of course. ...
    2 days ago
  • No surprises
    Don’t expect any fiscal shocks or surprises when the books are opened on December 20 with the unveiling of the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU). That was the message yesterday from Westpac in an economic commentary. But the bank’s analysis did not include any changes to capital ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #49 2023
    113 articles in 48 journals by 674 contributing authors Physical science of climate change, effects Diversity of Lagged Relationships in Global Means of Surface Temperatures and Radiative Budgets for CMIP6 piControl Simulations, Tsuchida et al., Journal of Climate 10.1175/jcli-d-23-0045.1 Do abrupt cryosphere events in High Mountain Asia indicate earlier tipping ...
    3 days ago
  • Phone calls at Kia Kaha primary
    It is quiet reading time in Room 13! It is so quiet you can hear the Tui outside. It is so quiet you can hear the Fulton Hogan crew.It is so quiet you can hear old Mr Grant and old Mr Bradbury standing by the roadworks and counting the conesand going on ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • A question of confidence is raised by the Minister of Police, but he had to be questioned by RNZ to ...
    It looks like the new ministerial press secretaries have quickly learned the art of camouflaging exactly what their ministers are saying – or, at least, of keeping the hard news  out of the headlines and/or the opening sentences of the statements they post on the home page of the governments ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Xmas  good  cheer  for the dairy industry  as Fonterra lifts its forecast
    The big dairy co-op Fonterra  had  some Christmas  cheer to offer  its farmers this week, increasing its forecast farmgate milk price and earnings guidance for  the year after what it calls a strong start to the year. The forecast  midpoint for the 2023/24 season is up 25cs to $7.50 per ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • MICHAEL BASSETT: Modern Maori myths
    Michael Bassett writes – Many of the comments about the Coalition’s determination to wind back the dramatic Maorification of New Zealand of the last three years would have you believe the new government is engaged in a full-scale attack on Maori. In reality, all that is happening ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Dreams of eternal sunshine at a spotless COP28
    Mary Robinson asked Al Jaber a series of very simple, direct and highly pertinent questions and he responded with a high-octane public meltdown. Photos: Getty Images / montage: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR The hygiene effects of direct sunshine are making some inroads, perhaps for the very first time, on the normalised ‘deficit ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • LINDSAY MITCHELL: Oh, the irony
    Lindsay Mitchell writes – Appointed by new Labour PM Jacinda Ardern in 2018, Cindy Kiro headed the Welfare Expert Advisory Group (WEAG) tasked with reviewing and recommending reforms to the welfare system. Kiro had been Children’s Commissioner during Helen Clark’s Labour government but returned to academia subsequently. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Transport Agencies don’t want Harbour Tunnels
    It seems even our transport agencies don’t want Labour’s harbour crossing plans. In August the previous government and Waka Kotahi announced their absurd preferred option the new harbour crossing that at the time was estimated to cost $35-45 billion. It included both road tunnels and a wiggly light rail tunnel ...
    3 days ago
  • Webworm Presents: Jurassic Park on 35mm
    Hi,Paying Webworm members such as yourself keep this thing running, so as 2023 draws to close, I wanted to do two things to say a giant, loud “THANKS”. Firstly — I’m giving away 10 Mister Organ blu-rays in New Zealand, and another 10 in America. More details down below.Secondly — ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    3 days ago
  • The Prime Minister's Dream.
    Yesterday saw the State Opening of Parliament, the Speech from the Throne, and then Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s dream for Aotearoa in his first address. But first the pomp and ceremony, the arrival of the Governor General.Dame Cindy Kiro arrived on the forecourt outside of parliament to a Māori welcome. ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • National’s new MP; the proud part-Maori boy raised in a state house
    Probably not since 1975 have we seen a government take office up against such a wall of protest and complaint. That was highlighted yesterday, the day that the new Parliament was sworn in, with news that King Tuheitia has called a national hui for late January to develop a ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago
  • Climate Adam: Battlefield Earth – How War Fuels Climate Catastrophe
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). War, conflict and climate change are tearing apart lives across the world. But these aren't separate harms - they're intricately connected. ...
    4 days ago
  • They do not speak for us, and they do not speak for the future
    These dire woeful and intolerant people have been so determinedly going about their small and petulant business, it’s hard to keep up. At the end of the new government’s first woeful week, Audrey Young took the time to count off its various acts of denigration of Te Ao Māori:Review the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago
  • Another attack on te reo
    The new white supremacist government made attacking te reo a key part of its platform, promising to rename government agencies and force them to "communicate primarily in English" (which they already do). But today they've gone further, by trying to cut the pay of public servants who speak te reo: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • For the record, the Beehive buzz can now be regarded as “official”
    Buzz from the Beehive The biggest buzz we bring you from the Beehive today is that the government’s official website is up and going after being out of action for more than a week. The latest press statement came  from  Education Minister  Eric Stanford, who seized on the 2022 PISA ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • Climate Change: Failed again
    There was another ETS auction this morning. and like all the other ones this year, it failed to clear - meaning that 23 million tons of carbon (15 million ordinary units plus 8 million in the cost containment reserve) went up in smoke. Or rather, they didn't. Being unsold at ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell On The Government’s Assault On Maori
    This isn’t news, but the National-led coalition is mounting a sustained assault on Treaty rights and obligations. Even so, Christopher Luxon has described yesterday’s nationwide protests by Maori as “pretty unfair.” Poor thing. In the NZ Herald, Audrey Young has compiled a useful list of the many, many ways that ...
    4 days ago
  • Rising costs hit farmers hard, but  there’s more  positive news  for  them this  week 
    New Zealand’s dairy industry, the mainstay of the country’s export trade, has  been under  pressure  from rising  costs. Down on the  farm, this  has  been  hitting  hard. But there  was more positive news this week,  first   from the latest Fonterra GDT auction where  prices  rose,  and  then from  a  report ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    4 days ago
  • ROB MacCULLOCH:  Newshub and NZ Herald report misleading garbage about ACT’s van Veldon not follo...
    Rob MacCulloch writes –  In their rush to discredit the new government (which our MainStream Media regard as illegitimate and having no right to enact the democratic will of voters) the NZ Herald and Newshub are arguing ACT’s Deputy Leader Brooke van Veldon is not following Treasury advice ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Top 10 for Wednesday, December 6
    Even many young people who smoke support smokefree policies, fitting in with previous research showing the large majority of people who smoke regret starting and most want to quit. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Wednesday, December ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Eleven years of work.
    Well it didn’t take six months, but the leaks have begun. Yes the good ship Coalition has inadvertently released a confidential cabinet paper into the public domain, discussing their axing of Fair Pay Agreements (FPAs).Oops.Just when you were admiring how smoothly things were going for the new government, they’ve had ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Why we're missing out on sharply lower inflation
    A wave of new and higher fees, rates and charges will ripple out over the economy in the next 18 months as mayors, councillors, heads of department and price-setters for utilities such as gas, electricity, water and parking ramp up charges. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Just when most ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • How Did We Get Here?
    Hi,Kiwis — keep the evening of December 22nd free. I have a meetup planned, and will send out an invite over the next day or so. This sounds sort of crazy to write, but today will be Tony Stamp’s final Totally Normal column of 2023. Somehow we’ve made it to ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago
  • At a glance – Has the greenhouse effect been falsified?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    5 days ago
  • New Zealaders  have  high expectations of  new  government:  now let’s see if it can deliver?
    The electorate has high expectations of the  new  government.  The question is: can  it  deliver?    Some  might  say  the  signs are not  promising. Protestors   are  already marching in the streets. The  new  Prime Minister has had  little experience of managing  very diverse politicians  in coalition. The economy he  ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    5 days ago
  • You won't believe some of the numbers you have to pull when you're a Finance Minister
    Nicola of Marsden:Yo, normies! We will fix your cost of living worries by giving you a tax cut of 150 dollars. 150! Cash money! Vote National.Various people who can read and count:Actually that's 150 over a fortnight. Not a week, which is how you usually express these things.And actually, it looks ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • Pushback
    When this government came to power, it did so on an explicitly white supremacist platform. Undermining the Waitangi Tribunal, removing Māori representation in local government, over-riding the courts which had tried to make their foreshore and seabed legislation work, eradicating te reo from public life, and ultimately trying to repudiate ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Defence ministerial meeting meant Collins missed the Maori Party’s mischief-making capers in Parli...
    Buzz from the Beehive Maybe this is not the best time for our Minister of Defence to have gone overseas. Not when the Maori Party is inviting (or should that be inciting?) its followers to join a revolution in a post which promoted its protest plans with a picture of ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • Threats of war have been followed by an invitation to join the revolution – now let’s see how th...
     A Maori Party post on Instagram invited party followers to ….  Tangata Whenua, Tangata Tiriti, Join the REVOLUTION! & make a stand!  Nationwide Action Day, All details in tiles swipe to see locations.  • This is our 1st hit out and tomorrow Tuesday the 5th is the opening ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Top 10 for Tuesday, December 4
    The RBNZ governor is citing high net migration and profit-led inflation as factors in the bank’s hawkish stance. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Tuesday, December 5, including:Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr says high net migration and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Nicola Willis' 'show me the money' moment
    Willis has accused labour of “economic vandalism’, while Robertson described her comments as a “desperate diversion from somebody who can't make their tax package add up”. There will now be an intense focus on December 20 to see whether her hyperbole is backed up by true surprises. Photo montage: Lynn ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • CRL costs money but also provides huge benefits
    The City Rail Link has been in the headlines a bit recently so I thought I’d look at some of them. First up, yesterday the NZ Herald ran this piece about the ongoing costs of the CRL. Auckland ratepayers will be saddled with an estimated bill of $220 million each ...
    5 days ago
  • And I don't want the world to see us.
    Is this the most shambolic government in the history of New Zealand? Given that parliament hasn’t even opened they’ve managed quite a list of achievements to date.The Smokefree debacle trading lives for tax cuts, the Trumpian claims of bribery in the Media, an International award for indifference, and today the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Cooking the books
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis late yesterday stopped only slightly short of accusing her predecessor Grant Robertson of cooking the books. She complained that the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU), due to be made public on December 20, would show “fiscal cliffs” that would amount to “billions of ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Most people don’t realize how much progress we’ve made on climate change
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The year was 2015. ‘Uptown Funk’ with Bruno Mars was at the top of the music charts. Jurassic World was the most popular new movie in theaters. And decades of futility in international climate negotiations was about to come to an end in ...
    6 days ago
  • Of Parliamentary Oaths and Clive Boonham
    As a heads-up, I am not one of those people who stay awake at night thinking about weird Culture War nonsense. At least so far as the current Maori/Constitutional arrangements go. In fact, I actually consider it the least important issue facing the day to day lives of New ...
    6 days ago
  • Bearing True Allegiance?
    Strong Words: “We do not consent, we do not surrender, we do not cede, we do not submit; we, the indigenous, are rising. We do not buy into the colonial fictions this House is built upon. Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to our mokopuna, our whenua, and Te Tiriti o ...
    6 days ago
  • You cannot be serious
    Some days it feels like the only thing to say is: Seriously? No, really. Seriously?OneSomeone has used their health department access to share data about vaccinations and patients, and inform the world that New Zealanders have been dying in their hundreds of thousands from the evil vaccine. This of course is pure ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • A promise kept: govt pulls the plug on Lake Onslow scheme – but this saving of $16bn is denounced...
    Buzz from the Beehive After $21.8 million was spent on investigations, the plug has been pulled on the Lake Onslow pumped-hydro electricity scheme, The scheme –  that technically could have solved New Zealand’s looming energy shortage, according to its champions – was a key part of the defeated Labour government’s ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • CHRIS TROTTER: The Maori Party and Oath of Allegiance
    If those elected to the Māori Seats refuse to take them, then what possible reason could the country have for retaining them?   Chris Trotter writes – Christmas is fast approaching, which, as it does every year, means gearing up for an abstruse general knowledge question. “Who was ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • BRIAN EASTON:  Forward to 2017
    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies. Brian Easton writes The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: Fossils
    When the new government promised to allow new offshore oil and gas exploration, they were warned that there would be international criticism and reputational damage. Naturally, they arrogantly denied any possibility that that would happen. And then they finally turned up at COP, to criticism from Palau, and a "fossil ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • GEOFFREY MILLER:  NZ’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    Geoffrey Miller writes – New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the government’s smokefree laws debacle
    The most charitable explanation for National’s behaviour over the smokefree legislation is that they have dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the Big Tobacco lobby and then cast around – incompetently, as it turns out – for excuses that might sell this health policy U-turn to the public. The less charitable ...
    6 days ago
  • Top 10 links at 10 am for Monday, December 4
    As Deb Te Kawa writes in an op-ed, the new Government seems to have immediately bought itself fights with just about everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Monday December 4, including:Palau’s President ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Be Honest.
    Let’s begin today by thinking about job interviews.During my career in Software Development I must have interviewed hundreds of people, hired at least a hundred, but few stick in the memory.I remember one guy who was so laid back he was practically horizontal, leaning back in his chair until his ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: New Zealand’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he left off. Peters sought to align ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    6 days ago
  • Auckland rail tunnel the world’s most expensive
    Auckland’s city rail link is the most expensive rail project in the world per km, and the CRL boss has described the cost of infrastructure construction in Aotearoa as a crisis. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The 3.5 km City Rail Link (CRL) tunnel under Auckland’s CBD has cost ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • First big test coming
    The first big test of the new Government’s approach to Treaty matters is likely to be seen in the return of the Resource Management Act. RMA Minister Chris Bishop has confirmed that he intends to introduce legislation to repeal Labour’s recently passed Natural and Built Environments Act and its ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago
  • The Song of Saqua: Volume III
    Time to revisit something I haven’t covered in a while: the D&D campaign, with Saqua the aquatic half-vampire. Last seen in July: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2023/07/27/the-song-of-saqua-volume-ii/ The delay is understandable, once one realises that the interim saw our DM come down with a life-threatening medical situation. They have since survived to make ...
    6 days ago
  • Chris Bishop: Smokin’
    Yes. Correct. It was an election result. And now we are the elected government. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    1 week ago
  • 2023 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #48
    A chronological listing of news and opinion articles posted on the Skeptical Science  Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Nov 26, 2023 thru Dec 2, 2023. Story of the Week CO2 readings from Mauna Loa show failure to combat climate change Daily atmospheric carbon dioxide data from Hawaiian volcano more ...
    1 week ago
  • Affirmative Action.
    Affirmative Action was a key theme at this election, although I don’t recall anyone using those particular words during the campaign.They’re positive words, and the way the topic was talked about was anything but. It certainly wasn’t a campaign of saying that Affirmative Action was a good thing, but that, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • 100 days of something
    It was at the end of the Foxton straights, at the end of 1978, at 100km/h, that someone tried to grab me from behind on my Yamaha.They seemed to be yanking my backpack. My first thought was outrage. My second was: but how? Where have they come from? And my ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • Look who’s stepped up to champion Winston
    There’s no news to be gleaned from the government’s official website today  – it contains nothing more than the message about the site being under maintenance. The time this maintenance job is taking and the costs being incurred have us musing on the government’s commitment to an assault on inflation. ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago
  • What's The Story?
    Don’t you sometimes wish they’d just tell the truth? No matter how abhorrent or ugly, just straight up tell us the truth?C’mon guys, what you’re doing is bad enough anyway, pretending you’re not is only adding insult to injury.Instead of all this bollocks about the Smokefree changes being to do ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • The longest of weeks
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Friday Under New Management Week in review, quiz style1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • Suggested sessions of EGU24 to submit abstracts to
    Like earlier this year, members from our team will be involved with next year's General Assembly of the European Geosciences Union (EGU). The conference will take place on premise in Vienna as well as online from April 14 to 19, 2024. The session catalog has been available since November 1 ...
    1 week ago
  • Under New Management
    1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. Under New Management 2. Which of these best describes the 100 days of action announced this week by the new government?a. Petulantb. Simplistic and wrongheaded c. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago

  • Ministers visit Hawke’s Bay to grasp recovery needs
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon joined Cyclone Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell and Transport and Local Government Minister Simeon Brown, to meet leaders of cyclone and flood-affected regions in the Hawke’s Bay. The visit reinforced the coalition Government’s commitment to support the region and better understand its ongoing requirements, Mr Mitchell says.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activity
    New Zealand has joined the UK and other partners in condemning malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government, Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau Judith Collins says. The statement follows the UK’s attribution today of malicious cyber activity impacting its domestic democratic institutions and processes, as well ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Disestablishment of Te Pūkenga begins
    The Government has begun the process of disestablishing Te Pūkenga as part of its 100-day plan, Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills Penny Simmonds says.  “I have started putting that plan into action and have met with the chair and chief Executive of Te Pūkenga to advise them of my ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend COP28 in Dubai
    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will be leaving for Dubai today to attend COP28, the 28th annual UN climate summit, this week. Simon Watts says he will push for accelerated action towards the goals of the Paris Agreement, deliver New Zealand’s national statement and connect with partner countries, private sector leaders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand to host 2024 Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins yesterday announced New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting (SPDMM). “Having just returned from this year’s meeting in Nouméa, I witnessed first-hand the value of meeting with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security and defence matters. I welcome the opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Study shows need to remove distractions in class
    The Government is committed to lifting school achievement in the basics and that starts with removing distractions so young people can focus on their learning, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.   The 2022 PISA results released this week found that Kiwi kids ranked 5th in the world for being distracted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister sets expectations of Commissioner
    Today I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand needs a strong and stable ETS
    New Zealand needs a strong and stable Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) that is well placed for the future, after emission units failed to sell for the fourth and final auction of the year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  At today’s auction, 15 million New Zealand units (NZUs) – each ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • PISA results show urgent need to teach the basics
    With 2022 PISA results showing a decline in achievement, Education Minister Erica Stanford is confident that the Coalition Government’s 100-day plan for education will improve outcomes for Kiwi kids.  The 2022 PISA results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths compared to 2018 and confirms ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Collins leaves for Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Working for Families gets cost of living boost
    Putting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Post-Cabinet press conference
    Most weeks, following Cabinet, the Prime Minister holds a press conference for members of the Parliamentary Press Gallery. This page contains the transcripts from those press conferences, which are supplied by Hansard to the Office of the Prime Minister. It is important to note that the transcripts have not been edited ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrapped
    The Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in Gaza
    New Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Condolences on passing of Henry Kissinger
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Backing our kids to learn the basics
    Every child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through trade
    I would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber.  I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, Auckland
    Good morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States.  This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic Priority
    Good morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Coalition Government unveils 100-day plan
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has laid out the Coalition Government’s plan for its first 100 days from today. “The last few years have been incredibly tough for so many New Zealanders. People have put their trust in National, ACT and NZ First to steer them towards a better, more prosperous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2023-12-10T00:23:31+00:00