Flag observations

Written By: - Date published: 8:29 am, December 12th, 2015 - 95 comments
Categories: identity - Tags:

According to Flag Consideration Project head Professor John Burrows the current result (black and blue fern) is preliminary and may still change when the final vote is announced on Tuesday.

The back and blue fern did not win on first preferences, but was the eventual winner with 50.53% on the fourth and final round.

Other observations from Twitter last night:

95 comments on “Flag observations ”

  1. Chooky 1

    as long as the vacuous corporate Xero design Red Peak does not get in to face off against our existing flag …this is a small victory in the whole sorry and expensive saga to change the NZ flag which no one wants changed

    If Red peak becomes New Zealand’s flag I will NEVER vote Green party again

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1

      🙄

      It’s all about priorities on Planet Chooky.

      • Chooky 1.1.1

        well the anonymous blokes run the planet and they are f..king incompetent…

        evidence ?… as you are an anonymous bloke who always likes evidence

        The evidence is that the PLANET is a mess

    • Chooky 1.2

      Congratulations to Winston Peters and New Zealand First …who have the pulse and respect of most New Zealanders on keeping the existing flag

      ( unlike James Shaw and the Greens who wanted ‘Red Peak’ ….and kept the option of voting for the existing flag out of the first referendum by doing a deal with jonkey nact in support of ‘Red Peak’ flag inclusion…this meant the Greens forced a second costly referendum on New Zealanders who want their existing flag)

      Like many other New Zealanders:

      ….”New Zealand First leader Winston Peters wrote “keep our flag” on his ballot paper, meaning it would be counted as an informal vote.

      He said the fact that 149,022 people had cast informal votes (9.7 per cent) was “terribly high”, and showed the level of discontent over the flawed process.

      The vote had made it even more clear that the vast majority of New Zealanders did not want any flag change, Mr Peters said.

      The NZ First leader was no fan of tonight’s winner…

      http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11559764

      (and yus Red Peak has been donged on the head in the first round !…not a popular choice)

      Red Peak a Green Lemon

      • weka 1.2.1

        unlike James Shaw and the Greens who wanted ‘Red Peak’ ….and kept the option of voting for the existing flag out of the first referendum by doing a deal with jonkey nact in support of ‘Red Peak’ flag inclusion…this meant the Greens forced a second costly referendum on New Zealanders who want their existing flag

        Please link to something credible that proves that the second referendum wouldn’t have happened if it weren’t for the GP.

        • Chooky 1.2.1.1

          ‘Politics winner for Red Peak’

          “A groundswell of support and an unlikely political alliance won a remarkable victory for Red Peak supporters with Prime Minister John Key backing down to allow its inclusion on the flag referendum ballot.

          A law change to include Red Peak was debated under urgency last night after Mr Key agreed to pick up a Green Party bill. In return the Green Party agreed to vote against any bid by the Labour Party to include a yes/no vote on changing the flag in the first referendum – a critical factor in persuading the Government to adopt the bill…

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11517949

          • Sacha 1.2.1.1.1

            which says nothing about “and kept the option of voting for the existing flag out of the first referendum”

            – because that statement is simply not true, is it.

            • weka 1.2.1.1.1.1

              +1

              Chooky, please provide evidence that Labour’s bill had enough votes to pass if the GP had not voted against it. You will have to give actual numbers. Afaik, National and its allies still out-vote the left on pretty much everything.

              • Disraeli Gladstone

                Chooky can’t show any evidence because she seemingly puppets anything Bradbury says without thinking about it herself.

                The Greens have been the one ray of sunshine in an otherwise dreary year of politics.

                • One Two

                  Using The Greens as positive spin ,is quite the low water mark

                  Like their Australian equivilant, The Greens are part of the established and systematic problems, politics offers to the world

                  • weka

                    sure, but it will be much easier to change the world if the GP were in government than NACT.

                  • Chooky

                    +100 One Two…Greens make mistakes too…we should not bury our heads in the sand when they do

                    • weka

                      No-one is denying that the GP make mistakes. You’re being called out (again) for making shit up.

                    • Chooky

                      @ weka…i dont think so…look at the link

                    • Sacha

                      Chooky, not voting with Labour was political theatre added to the deal by the Nats. It would have made no difference to the final numbers, as you have been told.

                      Did make the opposition look divided, much like when Labour excluded the Greens from the security select committee. We need to see more unity demonstrated all round before a non-right govt is a prospect.

            • D'Esterre 1.2.1.1.1.2

              Sacha:
              “…any bid by the Labour Party to include a yes/no vote on changing the flag in the first referendum…”
              and
              “… voting for the existing flag….. the first referendum”
              mean the same thing. So Chooky is right. What the GP did was to completely scotch any chance that a yes/no question – ie, voting for the existing flag – could, with a bit more political agitation, have been put into the first referendum. Then they tried to dress it up in the language of consensus politics: I wrote to Gareth Hughes about it, and I got a reply claiming pretty much that. And all for a flag that never had a groundswell of support in the first place. Which some of us pointed out at the time; it was just a twitter storm, which the twitterati were completely unable to see.

              The GP fell into a trap, and in so doing, got Dear Leader out of a hole which he’d dug for himself. I haven’t forgotten this: it’ll be a cold day in hell before I vote Green again.

              • Sacha

                Labour never had the numbers. Chooky’s statement “the Greens forced a second costly referendum” is pure fantasy.

                • D'Esterre

                  Sacha: “Labour never had the numbers.”

                  Neither did the twitteratis’ darling red peak to begin with, and look what happened there.

                  We’ll never know now what might have been possible. Thanks to the GP wanting to make itself look statesparty-like. Bah humbug!

  2. millsy 2

    The most important vote is in March.

    Vote to keep the current flag!

      • Paul 2.1.1

        Because I’m not a Key fanboy, like you

        • BM 2.1.1.1

          Key derangement syndrome strikes again.

          If you’d written that you’d prefer the old pommie flag because you’re a raving monarchist, I would respect that.

          The fact that you would vote for the current flag purely because of your hatred of John Key, makes you a fuckwit of the highest order.

          • Paul 2.1.1.1.1

            zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • left for deadshark 2.1.1.1.2

            Their could well be other reasons Bloody minded.

            The fact that you would vote for the current flag purely because of your hatred of John Key, makes you a fuckwit of the highest order.

            Discuss

          • Sabine 2.1.1.1.3

            because it is a waste of money.

            feed the children, no coin
            save the forests, no coin
            keep the houses warm, no coin
            keep the state houses, no coin
            keep the schools funded, no coin
            keep the cops on the roads, no coin
            keep the nurses and doctors in the hospitals and clinics, no coin
            clean up the rivers, no coin
            raise the super for our old ones, no coin
            look after our unemployed and sick, no coin
            look after our widowers and widows, look after the single parents, no coin

            i am sure I have forgotten many other things for which we have no coin, but we happen to have coin for a tea towel, cause the other tea towel is imperialistic and colonialist but hey…..we have coin for the royal breeder, the useless prick of a royal son and his second wife, the quite possible illegitimate third waiting for a throne or maybe not, cause that is not imperialistic or colonialist.

            so mate, once more you and Gareth Morgan and john Key and the National Party Posse are simply again on the wrong side of doing the right thing.

            And i have no issues changing the tea towels, cause we all now, if we don’t wash them every now and then they just get full of bacteria and cause us intestinal misfortune.

          • millsy 2.1.1.1.4

            If John Minto was PM. I still wouldnt vote to change the flag.

      • Halfcrown 2.1.2

        Why Not

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.3

        Why would we vote to change it when nothing has changed?

      • rob 2.1.4

        because all the others are shit! and political colours should stay out of any choices. keep the current flag is the only option at this stage IMO.

      • Dialey 2.1.5

        Because the silver fern options are lemons, poorly designed, look ridiculous when the wind blows them back to front, and as far as I am concerned do not represent a New Zealand I want to be part of.

    • doug stuart 2.2

      our current flag is a pommie navel flag the blue ensign with some stars added, time to get rid of our colonial past and change the flag.

      • Gangnam Style 2.2.1

        Take off the Union Jack & leave the stars, seems pretty simple to me. I don’t like the ‘fern’, so will be voting for the current flag. I don’t believe in change for the sake of change. We also still have honour titles like ‘sir’ & ‘dame’ & pay for brit royals to come visit, so a bit cheeky to suddenly be all embarrassed about our brit past.

        • Rodel 2.2.1.1

          “Take off the Union Jack & leave the stars” would make sense to me if I cared.
          If that had been a choice I might have got off my lazy apathetic bum and voted.

        • Puddleglum 2.2.2.1

          John Key is presumably agitating for a flag change there, too, when he’s on holiday. After all, he has the ear of the President.

          The entry on Hawaii in Wikipedia is worth reading for those who wondered why an island thousands of miles away from mainland US became a state. Here’s a teaser:

          The Kingdom of HawaiĘťi was sovereign from 1810 until 1893 when the monarchy was overthrown by resident American and European capitalists and landholders in a coup d’ĂŠtat. Hawaii was an independent republic from 1894 until August 12, 1898, when it officially became a territory of the United States. Hawaii was admitted as a U.S. state on August 21, 1959.

          And, in more detail:

          In January 1893, Queen LiliĘťuokalani was overthrown and replaced by a provisional government composed of members of the American Committee of Safety. American lawyer Sanford B. Dole became President of the Republic when the Provisional Government of Hawaii ended on July 4, 1894. Controversy ensued in the following years as the Queen tried to regain her throne. The administration of President Grover Cleveland commissioned the Blount Report, which concluded that the removal of LiliĘťuokalani had been illegal. The U.S. government first demanded that Queen LiliĘťuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused.

          Congress conducted an independent investigation, and on February 26, 1894, submitted the Morgan Report, which found all parties, including Minister Stevens—with the exception of the Queen—”not guilty” and not responsible for the coup. Partisans on both sides of the debate questioned the accuracy and impartiality of both the Blount and Morgan reports over the events of 1893.

          In 1993, the US Congress passed a joint Apology Resolution regarding the overthrow; it was signed by President Bill Clinton. The resolution apologized for the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom and acknowledged that the United States had annexed Hawaii unlawfully.

          Another triumph for the apparently unstoppable appeal and allure of Western democracy. But I suppose it’s never too late to apologise – even when it’s all become a fait accompli.

      • TeWhareWhero 2.2.3

        A ‘pommie navel flag’ is an intriguing image.

        Point is we are still connected constitutionally to Britain so why change the flag unless we intend to cut all those links and become a republic?

        On a Kiwi passport it says that the ‘Governor General in the Realm of NZ requests in the name of Her Majesty The Queen …..’ the holder is a NZ citizen and a subject of the monarch of the UK.

        If the flag is changed, the NZ coat of arms will have to be changed so that the Britannia figure is carrying the new flag. And if we are to cut all the visual links to the UK -which is the logic underpinning some people’s opposition to the current modified naval ensign, the crown over the coat of arms would have to go.

        So, will there be a call for an entirely new coat of arms to represent this new NZ – which would require another design exercise and another referendum? Cartoonists, on your marks.

      • cogito 2.2.4

        still better than the tea towel alternative.

    • Chooky 2.3

      +100 millsy

  3. b waghorn 3

    The fact no one flag got a clear majority says we should dfitch the idea till a flag comes along that 50% plus of voters choose as their first pick.
    Democracy is not going with what 16% of voters want winning.?

    • Jester? 3.1

      “Democracy is not going with what 16% of voters want winning.?”

      So Labour in 2017 will not have a mandate to govern then?

      • weka 3.1.1

        Of course not, they will have to form a coalition with other parties. That’s because it’s MMP which was designed to increase representation. Your comparison fails of course, because it’s not like two or three flags can get together and out compete the others 🙄

      • weka 3.1.2

        So why did they use STV for this referendum?

        • weka 3.1.2.1

          hmm, not sure how this comment ended up here, it was supposed to be at the bottom of the thread. I will repost it down below.

        • lurgee 3.1.2.2

          A pedant notes: they didn’t. They used Alternative Vote.

          STV only works when you are electing multiple winners from a pool of candidates.

          If we have used STV, we’d have ended up with three flags. Which might have been the only way to keep people happy.

          I liked Red Peak, bestest, FWIW; though as I am not a New Zealander I did not feel it was my place to vote for which rag you lot want to hang on a stick.

          • weka 3.1.2.2.1

            thanks! So why use Alternate Vote (in this situation)?

            • lurgee 3.1.2.2.1.1

              I’d go with the non-conspiratorial idea that the final contender had to have the support of most of the those participating; if the red corner version of the Ferny Stars had won based on FPTP then there would have been 4/5 of those participating going, “Bugger that,” and the result of round two would have been a foregone conclusion (though I suspect it still is).

              At least the process has produced a contender that has the grudging support of more than half of those who participated. Probably, there will be a considerable number of transfers over from the red to the blue team, as (lets face it) the difference between one and the other is minimal.

              But I look at the Blue Ferny Stars and I’m glad I’m not a New Zealander. It looks like something David Brent would dream up if you asked him to design a flag.

              • weka

                cheers, that makes a lot of sense.

                • lurgee

                  Thing is, I’m not sure the logic works. When the real referendum comes round, I think people who voted for some ferny variation from the start will probably vote for the contender because they like ferns and stars. But a lot of people who voted for Red Peak, or Koru, or spoiled their ballots will hold off, hoping to have another stab at it in 10 years time. So it will be a pretty convincing walk over for the current flag. Because AV tends to produce the least disliked option, not one that people feel passionate about.

          • GregJ 3.1.2.2.2

            A pedant notes: they didn’t. They used Alternative Vote.

            Strictly speaking in NZ we call it Preferential Voting (PV) which is one of the alternative names for Instant Run-off Voting (IRV) of which others are: alternative vote (AV), transferable vote, ranked choice voting (RCV). 🙂

      • b waghorn 3.1.3

        If you were my jester and that was the pinnacle of you humorous japes it would be the ax for you !!

    • Jester 3.2

      “Democracy is not going with what 16% of voters want winning.?”

      So you’re ruling out Labour in 2017 then?

    • Incognito 4.1

      These pseudo-polls are frustrating. Instead of giving a tiny little (blue) bar with 1% at 3500-3550 votes or whatever the number is, just give the actual number of votes. Do you see this on social media, for example, instead of actual number of ‘likes’ you get a percentage or relative number of likes: 0.004% likes? I think not. It just adds to the fact that these ‘polls’ are completely unscientific and simply click bait.

  4. Wainwright 5

    The lockwood designs have zero imagination. It’s like Australia redesigning their flag and demanding it have a kangaroo on it because otherwise no one will be able to tell it’s Australia. Primary-school logic. Vote no in the second referendum.

  5. Richard 6

    It will be interesting to see how Little reacts to the result.

    I see two options. 1 Try and get Key to drop the second referendum or 2 Accept the results and urge voters to vote in March.

    Know which option would gain my support.

    • BLiP 6.1

      Little, like the rest us, has got no choice but to accept the result. Encouraging everyone to vote in the next ballot is his best option – but also spending a lot of time explaining how this whole thing is an act of ice cold cynicism on the part of John Key to cause division and distraction as part of an early start to the 2017 election. Dirty Politics on a grand scale. Little should rise above the fray and get on with his job of opposing what ever else National Ltd™ is planning on running out over the next two years – privatisation of education, health, social services and everything else its grubby donors want their hands on.

  6. weka 7

    So why did they use STV for this particular referendum?

    • Lanthanide 7.1

      It’s the fairest way to select an individual option amongst a range of options.

      There are other various systems, but the most obvious alternative is FPP, which clearly is inferior.

  7. The Union Flag will be dropped in a few years when the 1707 Act of Union of Scotland and England is repealed. The Flag will become a historic artefact at that point.

    NZ will have to choose a new flag at that point to replace the current one if they decide to retain it in the referendum.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1

      Why? Is there some international law that says you can’t have an outdated colonial symbol on your flag?

    • Gabby 9.2

      No they won’t. Just because the poms stopped using it wouldn’t mean we had to.

  8. rob 10

    wake up NZ. this so called flag change wont bring any profit or benefits but change and dissent will bring unnecessary disruption to this country, mark my words this is a totally brain fade idea and fuel for disruption. totally idiotic in the countries current situation. weldone flung key and Co.
    hope you take the first hit, for the team ie:(country)

  9. rod 11

    The flag that won the first ballot was John Keys first choice. Makes you wonder who counted all those votes so quickly after the poll closed. I expect BM will tell me.

  10. DS 12

    I voted for Red Peak as the least obnoxious (it at least looks like a flag), and Hypnoflag for the troll value. I’d have probably voted for the current flag over Red Peak, but it’d at least have made me stop to think.

    Against John Key’s pet fern flag? I’ll back the current one, come hell or high water. And I don’t even *like* the current one.

    • whateva next? 12.1

      I refused to engage by not sending back form at all. All about manipulation, and getting people excited about competition and “winning’ something, Xfactor, MasterChef, RWC, ad nauesum

      • gsays 12.1.1

        yes whateva, well said.
        the entire flag shenanagins seems to be a cunning ploy for everyone to have their say, be it “i like this choice” thru to “fjk”.
        (after all, my opinion is important)

        you have to admit, it is very good politics.

        like you, i will not engage in the process.
        i did give my voting paper to my 13 yr old to fill in.
        after the initial thrill of being included in the affair, the papers sat on the coffee table till i threw them out today.

        ( by commenting on the rag debate i am breaking my own embargo)

  11. dave 13

    i defaced this vote feed the bloody kids next one i will vote no change fuck john key

  12. Muttonbird 14

    Fear not people. Lanthanide assures us the informal vote was low.

    Everyone else, including history, says it was more than ten times the previous highest.

    • b waghorn 14.1

      Talked to a chap today today and he voted in the proper manner but he picked monkey tail and big fern because it would muddy the waters in his words. He’ll vote no change next time and I’m picking a lot of the votes for the non lock woods where for the same reason.

  13. Here’s some polling over the last few months:

    21 September – 70% say no to change after seeing the four original picks for alternatives.

    27 September – On a change or no change question 65% say no change.

    15 October – this quite closely reflected the outcome in terms of the closeness of the fern designs, though it put Red Peak closer to them than in the referendum. The current flag had 64% support when up against the top contender (the red Lockwood).

    24 November – 65% want no change.

    The polling for ‘no change’ has remained pretty consistent over those months. That would suggest a reasonable proportion of the people voting in the postal ballot would also vote for no change in the March referendum.

    • cogito 15.1

      Key really missed a trick with this whole flag thing. He should have proposed it back in 2008/9 when people were hanging on to his every word and following him around like teenage groupies . Now, thankfully, people are seeing through his cynical self-serving diversions and deceptions. End result: hopefully they won’t vote for his embarrassment of a tea towel.

  14. aerobubble 16

    There was consensus for the fern and the southern cross.

    Like where did that come from and why did the ballot clearly make these images icons as winners.

    So sure a flag was chosen fern cross three of five from a proportional process was always going for mediocre.

  15. Brutus Iscariot 17

    I’d say the large number of Informals could partly be due to a lack of understanding of the Preferential Voting System, which NZ’ers generally aren’t used to.

    More than likely a large chunk of those people thought you were supposed to give each design a Mark out of 5.

    • D'Esterre 17.1

      Brutus Iscariot: “More than likely a large chunk of those people thought you were supposed to give each design a Mark out of 5.”

      The instructions were clear and easy to follow. Occam’s razor says that those who voted informally knew what they were doing.

      • Brutus Iscariot 17.1.1

        Never underestimate the stupidity of the general populace…

        • cogito 17.1.1.1

          A fact that gets exploited by Key at every turn.

        • D'Esterre 17.1.1.2

          Brutus Iscariot: “Never underestimate the stupidity of the general populace…”

          And yet, and yet… The proportion of informal votes is much, much higher than for previous referenda. So what’s your theory as to the stupidity of the general population being so much greater now than in the past?

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    When this government came to power, it did so on an explicitly white supremacist platform. Undermining the Waitangi Tribunal, removing Māori representation in local government, over-riding the courts which had tried to make their foreshore and seabed legislation work, eradicating te reo from public life, and ultimately trying to repudiate ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Defence ministerial meeting meant Collins missed the Maori Party’s mischief-making capers in Parli...
    Buzz from the Beehive Maybe this is not the best time for our Minister of Defence to have gone overseas. Not when the Maori Party is inviting (or should that be inciting?) its followers to join a revolution in a post which promoted its protest plans with a picture of ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago
  • Threats of war have been followed by an invitation to join the revolution – now let’s see how th...
     A Maori Party post on Instagram invited party followers to ….  Tangata Whenua, Tangata Tiriti, Join the REVOLUTION! & make a stand!  Nationwide Action Day, All details in tiles swipe to see locations.  • This is our 1st hit out and tomorrow Tuesday the 5th is the opening ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • Top 10 for Tuesday, December 4
    The RBNZ governor is citing high net migration and profit-led inflation as factors in the bank’s hawkish stance. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Tuesday, December 5, including:Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr says high net migration and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Nicola Willis' 'show me the money' moment
    Willis has accused labour of “economic vandalism’, while Robertson described her comments as a “desperate diversion from somebody who can't make their tax package add up”. There will now be an intense focus on December 20 to see whether her hyperbole is backed up by true surprises. Photo montage: Lynn ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • CRL costs money but also provides huge benefits
    The City Rail Link has been in the headlines a bit recently so I thought I’d look at some of them. First up, yesterday the NZ Herald ran this piece about the ongoing costs of the CRL. Auckland ratepayers will be saddled with an estimated bill of $220 million each ...
    2 days ago
  • And I don't want the world to see us.
    Is this the most shambolic government in the history of New Zealand? Given that parliament hasn’t even opened they’ve managed quite a list of achievements to date.The Smokefree debacle trading lives for tax cuts, the Trumpian claims of bribery in the Media, an International award for indifference, and today the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Cooking the books
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis late yesterday stopped only slightly short of accusing her predecessor Grant Robertson of cooking the books. She complained that the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU), due to be made public on December 20, would show “fiscal cliffs” that would amount to “billions of ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago
  • Most people don’t realize how much progress we’ve made on climate change
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The year was 2015. ‘Uptown Funk’ with Bruno Mars was at the top of the music charts. Jurassic World was the most popular new movie in theaters. And decades of futility in international climate negotiations was about to come to an end in ...
    2 days ago
  • Of Parliamentary Oaths and Clive Boonham
    As a heads-up, I am not one of those people who stay awake at night thinking about weird Culture War nonsense. At least so far as the current Maori/Constitutional arrangements go. In fact, I actually consider it the least important issue facing the day to day lives of New ...
    3 days ago
  • Bearing True Allegiance?
    Strong Words: “We do not consent, we do not surrender, we do not cede, we do not submit; we, the indigenous, are rising. We do not buy into the colonial fictions this House is built upon. Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to our mokopuna, our whenua, and Te Tiriti o ...
    3 days ago
  • You cannot be serious
    Some days it feels like the only thing to say is: Seriously? No, really. Seriously?OneSomeone has used their health department access to share data about vaccinations and patients, and inform the world that New Zealanders have been dying in their hundreds of thousands from the evil vaccine. This of course is pure ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • A promise kept: govt pulls the plug on Lake Onslow scheme – but this saving of $16bn is denounced...
    Buzz from the Beehive After $21.8 million was spent on investigations, the plug has been pulled on the Lake Onslow pumped-hydro electricity scheme, The scheme –  that technically could have solved New Zealand’s looming energy shortage, according to its champions – was a key part of the defeated Labour government’s ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • CHRIS TROTTER: The Maori Party and Oath of Allegiance
    If those elected to the Māori Seats refuse to take them, then what possible reason could the country have for retaining them?   Chris Trotter writes – Christmas is fast approaching, which, as it does every year, means gearing up for an abstruse general knowledge question. “Who was ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • BRIAN EASTON:  Forward to 2017
    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies. Brian Easton writes The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: Fossils
    When the new government promised to allow new offshore oil and gas exploration, they were warned that there would be international criticism and reputational damage. Naturally, they arrogantly denied any possibility that that would happen. And then they finally turned up at COP, to criticism from Palau, and a "fossil ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • GEOFFREY MILLER:  NZ’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    Geoffrey Miller writes – New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the government’s smokefree laws debacle
    The most charitable explanation for National’s behaviour over the smokefree legislation is that they have dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the Big Tobacco lobby and then cast around – incompetently, as it turns out – for excuses that might sell this health policy U-turn to the public. The less charitable ...
    3 days ago
  • Top 10 links at 10 am for Monday, December 4
    As Deb Te Kawa writes in an op-ed, the new Government seems to have immediately bought itself fights with just about everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Monday December 4, including:Palau’s President ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Be Honest.
    Let’s begin today by thinking about job interviews.During my career in Software Development I must have interviewed hundreds of people, hired at least a hundred, but few stick in the memory.I remember one guy who was so laid back he was practically horizontal, leaning back in his chair until his ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: New Zealand’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he left off. Peters sought to align ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    3 days ago
  • Auckland rail tunnel the world’s most expensive
    Auckland’s city rail link is the most expensive rail project in the world per km, and the CRL boss has described the cost of infrastructure construction in Aotearoa as a crisis. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The 3.5 km City Rail Link (CRL) tunnel under Auckland’s CBD has cost ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • First big test coming
    The first big test of the new Government’s approach to Treaty matters is likely to be seen in the return of the Resource Management Act. RMA Minister Chris Bishop has confirmed that he intends to introduce legislation to repeal Labour’s recently passed Natural and Built Environments Act and its ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago
  • The Song of Saqua: Volume III
    Time to revisit something I haven’t covered in a while: the D&D campaign, with Saqua the aquatic half-vampire. Last seen in July: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2023/07/27/the-song-of-saqua-volume-ii/ The delay is understandable, once one realises that the interim saw our DM come down with a life-threatening medical situation. They have since survived to make ...
    3 days ago
  • Chris Bishop: Smokin’
    Yes. Correct. It was an election result. And now we are the elected government. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    4 days ago
  • 2023 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #48
    A chronological listing of news and opinion articles posted on the Skeptical Science  Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Nov 26, 2023 thru Dec 2, 2023. Story of the Week CO2 readings from Mauna Loa show failure to combat climate change Daily atmospheric carbon dioxide data from Hawaiian volcano more ...
    4 days ago
  • Affirmative Action.
    Affirmative Action was a key theme at this election, although I don’t recall anyone using those particular words during the campaign.They’re positive words, and the way the topic was talked about was anything but. It certainly wasn’t a campaign of saying that Affirmative Action was a good thing, but that, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • 100 days of something
    It was at the end of the Foxton straights, at the end of 1978, at 100km/h, that someone tried to grab me from behind on my Yamaha.They seemed to be yanking my backpack. My first thought was outrage. My second was: but how? Where have they come from? And my ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago
  • Look who’s stepped up to champion Winston
    There’s no news to be gleaned from the government’s official website today  – it contains nothing more than the message about the site being under maintenance. The time this maintenance job is taking and the costs being incurred have us musing on the government’s commitment to an assault on inflation. ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • What's The Story?
    Don’t you sometimes wish they’d just tell the truth? No matter how abhorrent or ugly, just straight up tell us the truth?C’mon guys, what you’re doing is bad enough anyway, pretending you’re not is only adding insult to injury.Instead of all this bollocks about the Smokefree changes being to do ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • The longest of weeks
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Friday Under New Management Week in review, quiz style1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • Suggested sessions of EGU24 to submit abstracts to
    Like earlier this year, members from our team will be involved with next year's General Assembly of the European Geosciences Union (EGU). The conference will take place on premise in Vienna as well as online from April 14 to 19, 2024. The session catalog has been available since November 1 ...
    5 days ago
  • Under New Management
    1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. Under New Management 2. Which of these best describes the 100 days of action announced this week by the new government?a. Petulantb. Simplistic and wrongheaded c. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • While we wait patiently, our new Minister of Education is up and going with a 100-day action plan
    Sorry to say, the government’s official website is still out of action. When Point of Order paid its daily visit, the message was the same as it has been for the past week: Site under maintenance Beehive.govt.nz is currently under maintenance. We will be back shortly. Thank you for your ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • DAVID FARRAR: Hysterical bullshit
    Radio NZ reports: Te Pāti Māori’s co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer has accused the new government of “deliberate .. systemic genocide” over its policies to roll back the smokefree policy and the Māori Health Authority. The left love hysterical language. If you oppose racial quotas in laws, you are a racist. And now if you sack ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #48 2023
    Open access notables From this week's government/NGO section, longitudinal data is gold and Leisorowitz, Maibachi et al. continue to mine ore from the US public with Climate Change in the American Mind: Politics & Policy, Fall 2023: Drawing on a representative sample of the U.S. adult population, the authors describe how registered ...
    6 days ago
  • ELE LUDEMANN: It wasn’t just $55 million
    Ele Ludemann writes –  Winston Peters reckons media outlets were bribed by the $55 million Public Interest Journalism Fund. He is not the first to make such an accusation. Last year, the Platform outlined conditions media signed up to in return for funds from the PJIF: . . . ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 1-December-2023
    Wow, it’s December already, and it’s a Friday. So here are few things that caught our attention recently. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt covered the new government’s coalition agreements and what they mean for transport. On Tuesday Matt looked at AT’s plans for fare increases ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    6 days ago
  • Shane MacGowan Is Gone.
    Late 1996, The Dogs Bollix, Tamaki Makaurau.I’m at the front of the bar yelling my order to the bartender, jostling with other thirsty punters on a Friday night, keen to piss their wages up against a wall letting loose. The black stuff, long luscious pints of creamy goodness. Back down ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to Dec 1
    Nicola Willis, Chris Bishop and other National, ACT and NZ First MPs applaud the signing of the coalition agreements, which included the reversal of anti-smoking measures while accelerating tax cuts for landlords. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • 2023 More Reading: November (+ Writing Update)
    Completed reads for November: A Modern Utopia, by H.G. Wells The Vampire (poem), by Heinrich August Ossenfelder The Corpus Hermeticum The Corpus Hermeticum is Mead’s translation. Now, this is indeed a very quiet month for reading. But there is a reason for that… You see, ...
    6 days ago
  • Forward to 2017
    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies.The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. They also describe the processes of the ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    7 days ago
  • Questions a nine year old might ask the new Prime Minister
    First QuestionYou’re going to crack down on people ram-raiding dairies, because you say hard-working dairy owners shouldn’t have to worry about getting ram-raided.But once the chemist shops have pseudoephedrine in them again, they're going to get ram-raided all the time. Do chemists not work as hard as dairy owners?Second QuestionYou ...
    More than a fieldingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • Questions a nine year old might ask the new Prime Minister
    First QuestionYou’re going to crack down on people ram-raiding dairies, because you say hard-working dairy owners shouldn’t have to worry about getting ram-raided.But once the chemist shops have pseudoephedrine in them again, they're going to get ram-raided all the time. Do chemists not work as hard as dairy owners?Second QuestionYou ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • Finally
    Henry Kissinger is finally dead. Good fucking riddance. While Americans loved him, he was a war criminal, responsible for most of the atrocities of the final quarter of the twentieth century. Cambodia. Bangladesh. Chile. East Timor. All Kissinger. Because of these crimes, Americans revere him as a "statesman" (which says ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Government in a hurry – Luxon lists 49 priorities in 100-day plan while Peters pledges to strength...
    Buzz from the Beehive Yes, ministers in the new government are delivering speeches and releasing press statements. But the message on the government’s official website was the same as it has been for the past several days, when Point of Order went looking for news from the Beehive that had ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago
  • DAVID FARRAR: Luxon is absolutely right
    David Farrar writes  –  1 News reports: Christopher Luxon says he was told by some Kiwis on the campaign trail they “didn’t know” the difference between Waka Kotahi, Te PĹŤkenga and Te Whatu Ora. Speaking to Breakfast, the incoming prime minister said having English first on government agencies will “make sure” ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    7 days ago
  • Top 10 at 10 am for Thursday, Nov 30
    There are fears that mooted changes to building consent liability could end up driving the building industry into an uninsured hole. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Thursday, November 30, including:The new Government’s ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    7 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on how climate change threatens cricket‘s future
    Well that didn’t last long, did it? Mere days after taking on what he called the “awesome responsibility” of being Prime Minister, M Christopher Luxon has started blaming everyone else, and complaining that he has inherited “economic vandalism on an unprecedented scale” – which is how most of us are ...
    7 days ago
  • We need to talk about Tory.
    The first I knew of the news about Tory Whanau was when a tweet came up in my feed.The sort of tweet that makes you question humanity, or at least why you bother with Twitter. Which is increasingly a cesspit of vile inhabitants who lurk spreading negativity, hate, and every ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    7 days ago
  • Dangling Transport Solutions
    Cable Cars, Gondolas, Ropeways and Aerial Trams are all names for essentially the same technology and the world’s biggest maker of them are here to sell them as an public transport solution. Stuff reports: Austrian cable car company Doppelmayr has launched its case for adding aerial cable cars to New ...
    7 days ago
  • November AMA
    Hi,It’s been awhile since I’ve done an Ask-Me-Anything on here, so today’s the day. Ask anything you like in the comments section, and I’ll be checking in today and tomorrow to answer.Leave a commentNext week I’ll be giving away a bunch of these Mister Organ blu-rays for readers in New ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    1 week ago
  • National’s early moves adding to cost of living pressure
    The cost of living grind continues, and the economic and inflation honeymoon is over before it began. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: PM Christopher Luxon unveiled his 100 day plan yesterday with an avowed focus of reducing cost-of-living pressures, but his Government’s initial moves and promises are actually elevating ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Backwards to the future
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has confirmed that it will be back to the future on planning legislation. This will be just one of a number of moves which will see the new government go backwards as it repeals and cost-cuts its way into power. They will completely repeal one ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • New initiatives in science and technology could point the way ahead for Luxon government
    As the new government settles into the Beehive, expectations are high that it can sort out some  of  the  economic issues  confronting  New Zealand. It may take time for some new  ministers to get to grips with the range of their portfolio work and responsibilities before they can launch the  changes that  ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    1 week ago
  • Treaty pledge to secure funding is contentious – but is Peters being pursued by a lynch mob after ...
    TV3 political editor Jenna Lynch was among the corps of political reporters who bridled, when Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters told them what he thinks of them (which is not much). She was unabashed about letting her audience know she had bridled. More usefully, she drew attention to something which ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago
  • How long does this last?
    I have a clear memory of every election since 1969 in this plucky little nation of ours. I swear I cannot recall a single one where the question being asked repeatedly in the first week of the new government was: how long do you reckon they’ll last? And that includes all ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago

  • Minister sets expectations of Commissioner
    Today I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • New Zealand needs a strong and stable ETS
    New Zealand needs a strong and stable Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) that is well placed for the future, after emission units failed to sell for the fourth and final auction of the year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  At today’s auction, 15 million New Zealand units (NZUs) – each ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • PISA results show urgent need to teach the basics
    With 2022 PISA results showing a decline in achievement, Education Minister Erica Stanford is confident that the Coalition Government’s 100-day plan for education will improve outcomes for Kiwi kids.  The 2022 PISA results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths compared to 2018 and confirms ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Collins leaves for Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Working for Families gets cost of living boost
    Putting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrapped
    The Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in Gaza
    New Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Condolences on passing of Henry Kissinger
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Backing our kids to learn the basics
    Every child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through trade
    I would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber.  I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, Auckland
    Good morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States.  This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic Priority
    Good morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Coalition Government unveils 100-day plan
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has laid out the Coalition Government’s plan for its first 100 days from today. “The last few years have been incredibly tough for so many New Zealanders. People have put their trust in National, ACT and NZ First to steer them towards a better, more prosperous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Further humanitarian support for Gaza, the West Bank and Israel
    The Government is contributing a further $5 million to support the response to urgent humanitarian needs in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel, bringing New Zealand’s total contribution to the humanitarian response so far to $10 million. “New Zealand is deeply saddened by the loss of civilian life and the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago

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