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For the record

Written By: - Date published: 2:58 pm, February 28th, 2008 - 98 comments
Categories: john key, wages, workers' rights - Tags: , ,

Like most of his policy positions John Key’s story on his comment “we would love to see wages drop” just keeps on changing.

First he was “misrepresented”, then his comment was “lighthearted”, and now he’s claiming he never said it. Which is it John?

hollowmen.jpgIn an interview today with Mickey Havoc, Key now denies ever having made the comment (“I did not say that quote”), claims he never took part in an interview, asserts that the reporter was “eavesdropping”, implies the reporter is lying, and states rather ominously – “there’s more to this than meets the eye” and “we’re taking our own issues with it”. He even loses it a bit at the end under pressure from Havoc and throws in a “don’t give me that crap”.

Anyone remember that advice (see image) from Richard Long to Brash in The Hollow Men in relation to accusations about foreknowledge of the Brethren campaign to ‘try to dodge further questions by feigning irritation’?

You could almost be forgiven for thinking Key and Brash had been coached by the same guy. On the other hand, maybe Mr Key’s just not as friendly underneath all the gloss as some may have supposed.

The audio’s four minutes long but I reckon worth having on the record:

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98 comments on “For the record”

  1. Steve Pierson 1

    You can hear his media people in the background giving him advice.

  2. Steve Pierson 2

    Also, Key claims that government can’t affect wages, so why is he constantly complaining about the wage gap?

    Governments can and do influence wages. If he were PM, Key could cut wages by introducing his party’s 90-Day Bill

  3. all_your_base 3

    No, those are his kids. No, now they’re his friends. Nope, now it’s the Brethren. Who the **** knows the way he keeps changing his story.

  4. Daveo 4

    I noticed that bit about not being able to influence wages too Steve. How does it make sense for Key to claim he will lift wages but say he doesn’t have the power to affect wages after all?

  5. higherstandard 5

    Steve if you listen really carefully I’m sure you can hear the bretheren in the back ground talking in tongues.

    This horse has now been flogged multiple times and has no meat left on it’s bones please please move on you’re embarrasing yourself.

  6. James Kearney 6

    No HS- you just don’t like hearing about it. Mikey raised some good questions today and once again Key was all over the show with his story.

  7. Wayne 7

    It’s his continued denigration of the journalist that gets to me.

  8. Steve Pierson 8

    Daveo. Maybe Colin Espiner should ask him, after all he was saying the same thing about governments being unable to move wages last week.

  9. Daveo 9

    Yeah that was pretty stupid. Poor old Colin.

  10. Long time listener 10

    He certainly sounded rattled. Even if the media’s been relatively quiet on it it seems to have got to Key. He’ll be thanking his lucky stars it hasn’t gone any further.

  11. Dancer 11

    Like many i was also concerned at the attack on both the local journo and the paper. But what really puzzled me was if it was a mistake, something he never said, printed in a backwater paper that he nor his staff ever saw and it had just drifted under the radar, why didn’t he just offer a correction at the beginning – and maybe tell us those concrete plans for achieving his desired pay parity with Aussie…

  12. Daveo 12

    and maybe tell us those concrete plans for achieving his desired pay parity with Aussie

    … but apparently the government can’t affect wages.

  13. Can you guys not find something else to whine about, the 20 or 30 people at that meeting (I was one of them) never heard Key claim he wanted to see wages drop in NZ. The media are ignoring what was a misquote from a 12 page advertising rag that cannot even manage to sell local ads (it just lifts ads from it’s whangerai paper to keep it going). The Bay report is in it’s death throes since the competent sales rep (anita VH) left in the middle of last year. This particular journo has been deathly silent despite the high pitched screeching from the EPMU blog and the rest of the axis of stupid. Shouldn’t one of you guys dial 1 for an outside line and then 018 for the Whangerai office of this paper and then ring this numpty and get a proper quote from him.
    Or will his mea culpa remove the last straw you boys atre clinging to.

  14. Tane 14

    Bill, the interview in question wasn’t at the meeting, it was at a cafe and my understanding is the only people present were the journalist, John Key and Carolyne Brooks-Quan from the business association.

  15. higherstandard 15

    It obvious if you think about it Bill the journalist in question has been paid off by the Herald who’re clearly in cahoots with the bretheren who are in fact the real force behind the national party.

    These people are desperate I suggest they should relieve themselves.

  16. all_your_base 16

    Perhaps you weren’t “eavesdropping” closely enough BB.

  17. James Kearney 17

    BB- the publisher is backing the journo on this one:

    “Northern Publishing stands by the story published in the Bay Report on December 20, 2007 in which National Leader John Key was quoted as saying “We would love to see wages drop.”

    “Our reporter was at the meeting with the Kerikeri District Business Association President Carolyne Brooks-Quan and recorded the conversation.

    “We have a transcript of the meeting and we are happy that the quotes printed in the story are an accurate record of what Mr Key said.”

  18. Steve Pierson 18

    Wow Bill. That’s quite a bit of smear you’ve managed to assemble, pity you’re talking about the wrong event that Key spoke at.

    We stand by the quote as does the Bay Report in its edition today and the Northern Advocate in a couple of articles so far. Obviously we would like to have Mr Robertson on record for his recollection of the events and to clear his reputation after the attacks Key has made on it, but that choice is up to Robertson.

  19. mike 19

    This is getting ridiculous steve. Repetition does not = story…

  20. James Kearney 20

    No Mike- but radio interview lies from politician = interesting and relevant blog post.

  21. IrishBill 21

    The information I have is that the journalist organised the meeting between Key and Brooks-Quan for the story. If this is true, and I have strong reason to believe it is, then Key’s implication he was eavesdropped on, and his subsequent failure to correct Havoc’s eavesdropping statements, are a clear act of deception and smear.

  22. James Kearney 22

    That should read: radio interview [plus] lies from politician = interesting and relevant blog post.

    Why doesn’t the machine like my plus sign?

  23. Many of us went to the fish bone cafe on keri keri road for a cuppa and were present through out. Roberson will be back to kapa haka reporting by now I imagine.
    And as anonymity is a wonderfull thing I can comfortably state that Carolyne Brooks-Quan is a numpty of the highest order, despite being chummy with my wife and the rest of the lady lunchalots. She is ideally suited to running a committee.

  24. insider 24

    Gosh it’s interesting how different people hear things – I mean that genuinely.

    To me Key sounded totally in control. No fuss no panic. He wasn’t under pressure when he said crap, he was scoffing and laughing at Mikey’s claim that the quote might have been missed by the reporter (an argument I have made in an earlier thread that any good reporter should have seen the news value in it and followed it up).

    Has anyone followed up the issue with Carolyne Brooks-Quan?

    My advice to Key would be shut it down. Just respond shortly that it’s a non issue and move on to the next subject. He potentially gives it credibility by engaging on it. It’s similar to Clark and the Herald – every time she lashes out she makes the story bigger and gives it life.

  25. Steve Pierson 25

    It’s alright Bill, your secret identity is safe with us. Don’t think you’re being fair to Robertson though: it’s a simple quote and one anyone would be very careful to get right.

  26. Occasional Observer 26

    [you can smear the authors of this blog elsewhere]

  27. insider 27

    IRish Bill

    David Slack wrote this on his blog

    “I spoke this morning to Greg Robertson of the Bay Report, who has been fielding many media inquiries about a story he ran just before Christmas that offered the remark by John Key that “we would love to see wages drop.” [interesting that despite all these calls not one thought it worth pursuing as a story. Reef fish or no legs?]

    “According to Robertson, he invited the president of the Kerikeri business association to sit down with Key in a local cafe and put some questions to him. ”

    It’s unclear from this whether Key was party to this arrangement, which could explain his surprise that there was a reporter there and that he was recorded, and be the reason he said that this lady came up to him in a cafe and started asking him some questions.

  28. Concerned from Tawa 28

    “relating to a quote taken out of context….occurred three months ago”
    Wow with the desperate beat-up on the EPMU blog here, I thought the quote was recent.
    Still, I’ll file it with my Labour quotes:

    Bob McCroskie: “So you do not want to see smacking banned?”
    Helen Clark:”Absolutely not, I think you are trying to defy human nature.”

    Desperate times for Labour, desperate indeed!

  29. insider 29

    One more thing, if the reporter did set this up without Key’s knowledge and taped and reported the conversation, it may raise some ethical issues. Certainly radio and TV always ask permission before taping.

  30. Dark Watcher 30

    Quiet day at Finsec I see.

  31. Scribe 31

    Higher,

    This horse has now been flogged multiple times and has no meat left on it’s bones please please move on you’re embarrasing yourself.

    Yep, SEVENTEEN posts on this now, yet still ZERO on the polls putting Labour 20-plus points behind National.

  32. Daveo 32

    That’s a strange comment Scribe. Are you saying the standard’s posts are supposed to influence the political polls or something? What an odd thing to believe.

  33. Or it could be robertson trying to justify his panini and latte receipt.
    Trying to get a quote from brookes quan would be interesting. The woman is barking mad and currently in hiding after some very stupid quotes in the real local paper made by her. I believe there is a retailers fatwa currently hanging over her perfectly coiffed head after she dismissed complaints by some retailers over the new one way system driving (excuse the pun) business away as the mutterings of marginal businesses.
    yes we have a one way system, and this week we got our first set of traffic lights (temporary), I myself looked straight at them as I drove on through a reddie wondering what they were before a very angry 250 kilo orange vest wearing local tried to hit the 4 wd drive with his spade. In my defense we have never had them before and I was listening to saint leighton of cook street.
    Anyway, business house golf finished early today so these musings are alcohol assisted.. Burp.

  34. IrishBill 34

    This horse has now been flogged multiple times and has no meat left on it’s bones please please move on you’re embarrasing yourself.

    I think the story is worth following and this is the latest twist in it. The last time I checked this was our blog and we were free to post on what we found interesting. If you don’t like it you can go read someone else’s blog, it’s not like it’s your job to comment on this one.

  35. Steve Pierson 35

    insider. Key knew he was being taped. He’s lying about that. Robertson set up the interview and sat there taping it and taking notes while it happened.

  36. Concerned from Tawa 36

    “if you don’t like it you can go read someone else’s blog, it’s not like it’s your job to comment on this one.”

    Tut Tut. Your dummy is now on the floor covered with cat hair. Yuk.

    IrishBill says: What?

  37. Or somebody could beg for the tape and post it on here.

  38. Scribe 38

    Daveo,

    Are you saying the standard’s posts are supposed to influence the political polls or something? What an odd thing to believe.

    No, I’m saying that it’s odd that the biggest news story of the weekend — those poll results — hasn’t been discussed on a political blog. Meanwhile, the coverage of this story continues unabated.

    IrishBill,

    The last time I checked this was our blog and we were free to post on what we found interesting. If you don’t like it you can go read someone else’s blog

    Fair call. Based on what I’ve seen since first visiting The “Standard”, maybe I ought to stick to blogs that actually discuss topics of interest, rather than 17 posts on something you guys wish was a story.

    Kia kaha

  39. gobsmacked 39

    So it’s a non-story.

    But hang on – if this is how he flounders when the media aren’t chasing the story, how’s he going to cope when they ARE?

    Fast forward to 2009: “No, I did not say that about President Obama – that was off the record – the American media have misrepresented – I don’t recall saying it – I was joking – I may have said it but didn’t mean it – the White House has got it wrong – no, hang on, that’s not a diplomatic gaffe, I’m not saying Obama is wrong, I, I …”

  40. Monty 40

    is this the best you have you pathetic socialists – really this story is going no where. How about finding something else to bleat about – trying to make this story rise is making all socialists look desperate and stupid.

    Only a blithering lickspittle dumbarse would believe that John Key or anyone else in parliament excepet maybe the Greens would want wages to fall. It is an obvious mis-quote – by a leftard journalist.

    How about getting stuck into Peters and his dodgy “Big Money” – he is going to turn against you soon so you may as well make the first jump on him.

  41. insider 41

    Steve

    Don’t confuse my comments with Keys’. I’m not sure if he knew he was being taped. Did Key deny knowing? How do you know Robertson set up the interview with the knowledge of both parties?

    David Slack is the only report I have read of how the event happened and that fails to mention Key’s acquiescence. That may be significant, gvien Key didn’t seem to know it was a staged event, or it may be an innocent omission by Slack or Robertson.

    It’s a surprise, in the interests of thoroughness and given your passion for this event, that you guys haven’t followed up on the record with Robertson. Where did you get the details of his CV?

  42. Matthew Pilott 42

    Lay off the turps, sugar, when you get angry it makes you seem worried.

    If you’re too economically illiterate, or have too limited an understanding of the right to understand why Key might want wages to drop then that’s your problem, but try some form of self-improvement instead of posting childish gibberish here. Are you seven, or drunk?

  43. Daveo 43

    David Slack is the only report I have read of how the event happened and that fails to mention Key’s acquiescence. That may be significant, gvien Key didn’t seem to know it was a staged event, or it may be an innocent omission by Slack or Robertson.

    Of course Key knew it was being recorded. Remember his quote about the “young guy taking notes”?

    Key pretended on radio today he’d be eavesdropped on. He was lying.

  44. insider 44

    Matthew

    I’m illiterate. Explain it to me because I can’t see the rationale. Lower wages implies fewer opportunities for everyone – rich pricks included. The richest companies tend to come from the richest countries, and much of their profit will come from those economies too. Would you rather be selling products to wealthy Americans or poor Chinese?

    So how would rich pricks benefit from lower wages except in the very short term for commodity based businesses?

  45. Daveo 45

    National is the party that represents the interests of employers. Employers want to pay their workers less and that means an environment of low union density, a reserve army of labour (high unemployment and immigration) and depression of direct levers like the minimum wage. They also like personal tax cuts because it reduces pressure from workers for wage increases.

    National won’t always follow these policies to the letter but it’s the tendency they will follow and have done historically.

  46. insider 46

    Daveo

    By recorded I meant with an electronic device. People take notes for all kinds of reasons, not just for putting it in the paper. I’ve done it at meetings where the PM and Key have spoken and never reported the contents.

  47. gobsmacked 47

    Insider

    I think that was aimed at Monty, not you.

  48. insider 48

    Daveo

    In my experience employers don’t want to overpay ie get out of line with the market but are quite willing to pay much more if there is a significant reason such as retention and performance. I don’t think they usually want to pay less – but that may just be the circles I move in. If that truly was the general case, why aren’t we all earning the minimum wage?

  49. Adolf Fiinkensein 49

    You guys at The Standard remind me of the Pharaoh’s army charging across the Red Sea bed just before Moses commanded the waters to drown the useless pricks.

  50. Hey Adolf – why did you name yourself after Hitler. Do you think that’s funny?

  51. Phil 51

    Maybe for the same reasons you gave yourself a name that gives me a mental image of Adam West in full regailia as your “Big Spoon”

  52. petrhaps this will help you with your fetish for adolf’s name Rob.
    A very good read;
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article3441328.ece

  53. Occasional Observer 53

    funny how when dark watcher says “quiet day at finsec” his comment stays up but when I talk about all-your-base working for the prime ministers office that comment gets deleted as a “smear”. This is why you standard guys are so dumb.

  54. Tane 54

    Um, OO, yours was moderated because it was a personal attack on a_y_b. If you want we can start deleting any comment that included accusations about where each poster may or may not work or of being the President of the Labour Party, but then you’d find there’d be very few left from the right.

  55. Tane why was my last post deleted, rather than just ripping out every second or third comment why not just tell me not to post and save me some time

  56. Tane 56

    Bill your comment wasn’t deleted. You may have got the captcha wrong – even happens to me sometimes. It’s a fiddly little thing so it usually pays to copy your comment before you post it, and if the captcha looks iffy just click the button with the two arrows and get a new one.

  57. Occasional Observer 57

    yeah bill you’re one of those incompetent right-wingers who always gets the captcha wrong. The standard doesn’t moderate comments, they don’t have time to employ full time moderators, apart from eddie, irishbill all your base and tane who are pretty much full time here and only have time to moderate comments they don’t like.

  58. righto, I will up the dose on my anti paranoia pills and try to comment again.

    Rob, once you have read the article I linked to try this.

    do you agree with this sentence;
    Augusto pinochet is a hero.

    fills you with revulsion no doubt.

    Now try this one;
    Fidel castro is a hero.
    Slow nod of the head no doubt.
    This highlights the fundamental hypocrisy of the left. Whilst you are happy being a loyal little foot soldier of the current regime a moment of quiet reflection might be called for to ask yourself what Clark and co are doing.
    They will lose the next election not because key looks and sounds good but because the labour party have gone too far with their invasive meddling in our lives, trying to control what we eat, drive, drink, do with our money and think.
    Both left and right will fuck things up, but at least the right want to STEAL AND spend less of MY MONEY

  59. AncientGeek 59

    OO: BB is a valued contributor. May be occasionally on the sauce (probably why he is missing the re bit of captcha at present see here). But usually he makes a sort of skewed sense.

    On the other hand, there is your contribution. Which primarily consists of saying bugger all – and doing it very badly. Probably why your comments aren’t of an awful lot of value.

    Perhaps you could consider trying to actually say something of some interest. If you can’t do that, then possibly just say something as inane as todays contribution – but in an interesting manner.

    Frankly to date you just sound like a dickhead.

  60. Tane 60

    That’s hilarious OO. There are (from memory) nine of us and we do this voluntarily and on a casual basis. We post when we have the time and we all try to keep an eye on the comment threads to make sure they don’t descend into a sewer or a flame war. It’s called a collective, and we work like this because a) we’re no-good left-wing collectivists, and b) none of us on our own has the time or the inclination to run a blog of this size by themselves. It’s hard work.

    What I find funny is collectively we usually post three to five articles a day between the nine of us, and we get accused of being full-time paid bloggers working on behalf of some vast left-wing conspiracy. Your mate DPF posts upwards of 10 a day by himself and no one bats an eyelid. Whaleoil, The Hive and No Minister often post at similar volume. Why aren’t you directing your questions in that direction?

    As for your other whinge, the reason right-wingers tend to complain more vocally about comments not showing up is because they’re the ones who assume some great conspiracy to silence dissent. People on the left realise it’s just a technical error with the captcha.

  61. AncientGeek 61

    BB: at least you say inane things in an interesting way…… Hope you’re not driving, even if there is only a single traffic light there.

    captcha: weekend The
    one could wish

  62. Tane said;
    “hat’s hilarious OO. There are nine of us who do this voluntarily and on a casual basis. ”

    Bastard, I read this and laughed so hard I sprayed Johnnie Walker from both nostrils all over the keyboard.

    your captcha comment is spot on by the way, it posts the message straight away but when you refresh it disappears…
    SO MUCH SO THAT THIS IS THE SECOND TIME I HAVE POSTED THIS… DOH

  63. Leaning2tharite 63

    Wayne
    Feb 28th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
    It’s his continued denigration of the journalist that gets to me.

    You must be well ticked off with Helen then…hasnt she been denigrating journalists for the last week?

  64. I have in front of me this weeks bay report. All 16 pages of it, these advertising vehicles run typically at 65% advertising. This one has less than half a page of local ads with the rest of the ads made up of whangerai retail ads lifted from the paper down there and reproduced to pad it out. The editor writes about the misquote in a style that would rival the sanctimonious drivel of James Sleep and our intrepid hero G Robertson gets the front page writing about another 150 year flood in kaeo. Despite receiving visits from Helen Clarke and just about every other public tit sucking drone in the country, most of whom visited by helicopter and made grandiose promises of help. NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE TO HELP.
    All it needed was a dredging at the bridge end and thinning of the noxious weeds that some people call mangroves and this would not have happened. Mr robinson failed to point out the hollow promises and failure to act on the part of the govt. But I am sure he would have got a gold star from his fifth form english teacher for his breathless drivel.

  65. I should have mentioned that the editor is called Mike Regan, the O no doubt dropped from his name. Undoubtedly a ginger and probably comes from a long line of Irish socialists.

  66. Tane 66

    You must be well ticked off with Helen then hasnt she been denigrating journalists for the last week?

    Learning2write, you’re not by far the first rightie to come on here and confuse criticism of a major newspaper’s editorial line with the repeated and baseless denigration of one journalist’s professionalism to cover for your own mistakes.

  67. burt 67

    Steve

    You say earlier in this thread:

    Also, Key claims that government can’t affect wages, so why is he constantly complaining about the wage gap?

    Governments can and do influence wages. If he were PM, Key could cut wages by introducing his party’s 90-Day Bill

    Yet on this thread: Solution to wage-gap in hands of business

    You posted the Dr. Cullen “I have no fricken idea” quote that it’s up to business. Are you a confused, hopelessly partisan or just a complete dumb fuck who repeats party talking points without even noticing you are making a complete dick of yourself ?

  68. Leaning2tharite 68

    “repeated and baseless denigration of one journalist’s professionalism”

    What…taking a recording and forgetting to save it? I find it hard to believe that you ‘Tanethaloserwhoisobsessedwithkeyscomment” (i can play wit your name to) are actually running with this story.As key said, what politician in their right mind would love to see wages drop..it would be political suicide. But then again our good looking PM seems to be doing everything she can to lose the election.

  69. burt 69

    Steve

    Since you posted on that previous link;

    The government can continue raising the minimum wage, further strengthen work rights, invest in productivity, pay its own employees more, and lower income tax (all but one of which National opposes, incidentally) but these measures can only make a marginal or long-term difference. The real power to raise wages lies with business.

    Fundamentally, it is business, not government, that has the power to solve New Zealand’s low wage problem.

    Why are you saying it’s not good enough for National to not have a policy to lift wages? Why must National provide the silver bullet that you have said doesn’t exist and don’t expect Labour to have?

  70. Hahahahaha 70

    IrishBill says: your comments are spam

  71. DS 71

    “Both left and right will fuck things up, but at least the right want to STEAL AND spend less of MY MONEY”

    Right-wing economic fallacy #164: “Taxation is theft”.

    Sorry mate, but without the social contract (of which taxes are a part), you’d be making no money whatsoever. Complaining that the government is “stealing your money” is a bit rich: the infrastructure and the education of the workforce (some of the things that have enabled you to earn this money in the first place) actually have to be paid for, you know. And taxation is the way we as a society have agreed to fund it.

  72. Dean 72

    Tane:

    “As for your other whinge, the reason right-wingers tend to complain more vocally about comments not showing up is because they’re the ones who assume some great conspiracy to silence dissent. People on the left realise it’s just a technical error with the captcha.”

    Be more biased without foundation. You know you can do it. I mean, seriously. I actually thought you were better than that. I’ve come to expect charging like a wounded bull kind of statements from many people on this site, but I’ve never seen it before from you.

  73. burt 73

    Hahahahaha

    You will be banned if you take issue with the censorship standard du jour.

    Best of luck.

  74. Leaning2tharite 74

    Hahahahaha you best behave before you join the long list of those turfed outta here…moderators have been grumpy for a few weeks

    IrishBill says: Haha. etc will be turfed out of here for spam and for abuse (here’s a hint: we don’t tolerate email details that describe us as “fuckers”)

  75. DS 75

    “Rob, once you have read the article I linked to try this.

    do you agree with this sentence;
    Augusto pinochet is a hero.

    fills you with revulsion no doubt.

    Now try this one;
    Fidel castro is a hero.
    Slow nod of the head no doubt.
    This highlights the fundamental hypocrisy of the left.”

    As opposed to the Right, which merely invited individuals like Pinochet around to tea (Thatcher really used to do that), or which backed Pol Pot because at least he was an anti-Soviet genocidal maniac (yes, Pol Pot was a Western ally), or which cheerfully gave madmen like Suharto a bottomless truckload of state-of-the-art weaponry and a laundry list of individuals the US would like to see “disappear”?

    Give me a break. The real crime Castro committed in your eyes was not that he was a dictator, but that he had the nerve to nationalise the property of Cuba’s pre-1959 corporate mafia. If he were a free-marketeer, you Tories would adore him.

    Talk about hypocrisy.

  76. burt 76

    Hahahahaha

    Two things. No unreasonable (or unjustified) force/abuse AND take a ‘copy’ of you comment and post it into a notepad or similar plain text editor, save it. You never know when you might just need it again. 🙂

    Oh, reposting a deleted comment will normally result in a ‘duplicate comment’ response, simple solution is to add or subtract a few lines or add/subtract a word or two.

  77. burt 77

    Hahahahaha

    Also moderators will tell you it’s a CAPTCHA issue. Normally it is, they are not shitting you, can test this yourself.

    Post a comment and type the CAPTCHA wrong, refresh the browser after it accepts the comment, normally the comment is still there, refresh it again (or a few more times) and it’s gone.

  78. Hahahahaha 78

    IrishBill says: you’re banned. Come back in a week if you want but you won’t be welcome if you continue the way you’ve started.

  79. burt 79

    Hahahahaha

    Trust me, there isn’t much I agree with about the standard and it’s authors, however the captcha thing, if the comment just vanishes very soon after it was posted, it’s probably a captcha issue. Hence the save a copy and re-post (rule number 2).

    IrishBill says: You’ll be pleased to know, Burt, that we have to use the bloody captcha to post comments too. I had one disappear today. Luckily I’ve also got into the habit of saving them to the clipboard before I hit “submit”.

  80. Tane 80

    Burt, I can’t speak for Steve but I’ve made it clear in my posts what the government can do to lift or drop wages. Have a browse through our workers’ rights section:

    http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?cat=5

  81. burt 81

    IrishBill

    Your captcha although effective is a dog breakfast from a usability perspective.

    I have a question, although it might be one for ‘lprent’. If I stuff up the captcha and my comments appears in the thread, is it just me who can see it or can others also see it?

  82. Leaning2tharite 82

    Another 1 bites the dust

  83. IrishBill 83

    Only you can see them. It’s got something to do with javascript but beyond that you’d need Lynn to explain. It is very good at keeping spam out however and means we don’t need to run a prescriptive registration system.

  84. Tane 84

    Dean, you’ll have to exuse me. Occasional Observer is a troll and my patience for them is running very thin. In his short time commenting on this blog he is yet to make one constructive comment but has levelled all kinds of smears and accusations at us.

    I’m sorry if you got the impression I was referring to all right-wingers there, what I meant and probably could have worded better is the ones who come on here merely to disrupt, then accuse us of deleting their comments when all that’s happened is they’ve mistyped the captcha.

    It’s a fact that we don’t seem to have much of a problem with lefties coming here trying to abuse and disrupt. I’d put that down to them having an interest in this place functioning properly, as do most sensible right-leaning commenters. Unfortunately there is a small group of righties who see this place as a threat and try their hardest to turn it into a sewer. We’re determined not to let that happen.

  85. burt 85

    Tane

    I’m really not trying to be difficult, but that link provided me with 6 posts of ‘Key wants to cut wages’ interupted with a post about Aussie, followed by more ‘key wants to cut wages’ before I got to the Bunnings strike.

    You and I seldom agreed over the effect unions have on wages, so I’d rather not relitigate the Bunnings thread. However I’m very interested in what policy Labour has to lift wages.

    You as an anonymous poster provide some interesting perspectives, but as we don’t know who you are we have no idea if they are Labour policy considerations being tested in the market (the response on this and other blogs) or if they are just your own personal opinions. We certainly can’t take you perspective as policy when you are anonymous.

    IrishBill

    Cheers, that all I wanted to know, I can now use it as a preview feature if I have a truck load of html tags and want to verify the formatting is as planned.

  86. Tane 86

    Yeah, I just had a look through that myself Burt and realised the thread’s been swamped a bit. I’m tired and a couple of wines down so I can’t be bothered going through it right now. I’ll track down some stuff for you tomorrow.

  87. Tane 87

    we have no idea if they are Labour policy considerations being tested in the market (the response on this and other blogs) or if they are just your own personal opinions.

    Just saw this – I can assure you nothing I post is a Labour policy consideration. Christ, I wish it was. They’re just my personal opinions based on experience and a bit of research.

  88. Off topic I know, but are you guys going to post about Cunliffe overriding the will of voters in the Hawkes Bay? Or given all the links back to the Labour Party (Chris Clarke, Peter Hausmann, Ray Lind, Annette King), don’t you see it as newsworthy?

  89. burt 89

    I2

    Don’t get me started. It’s outrageous, do you think Annette King ever had dinner with Peter Hausmann? Do you think they discussed his appointment and his interests in Healthcare NZ? It’s got shabby written all over it.

  90. It is the going to be the biggest scandal over the next month or so.
    .
    the players
    Chief exec……… Used to work for Clark
    King…….. appointed hausmann to board… who employs kings husband.
    uncontested tenders awarded and then rescinded.
    it stinks.

  91. lprent 91

    I have a question, although it might be one for ‘lprent’. If I stuff up the captcha and my comments appears in the thread, is it just me who can see it or can others also see it?

    Nope. Recaptcha uses this interesting bit of javascript in the page. If you look at the page source you can find it near the bottom.

    It pops the comment onto the screen where you can see it, but fails to go to the database. It is kind of cute, but a total pain when it fails because you ‘see’ it, but no-one else can. There is an update that fixes it, but to date I haven’t had time to do more than test it.

    As other people have noted, we have to work as well – a thread problem with xlib at present for a new product. Hopefully this weekend. I have a number of plugin’s to put in, but I need repair the older posts and comments. They took some character set damage while shifting around MySQL versions.

  92. burt 93

    rOb

    You can now also use the new burt preview ® feature as well. Go on, get bold, blockquoted, knock yourself out.

    Here is a helpful guide;
    http://websitetips.com/articles/html/basictags/#chart

  93. r0b 94

    I can now use it as a preview feature if I have a truck load of html tags and want to verify the formatting is as planned.

    Did anyone else get a shiver of antici



    pation?

  94. r0b 95

    Don’t go too crazy Burt. WordPress (on which The Standard is based) only recognises a subset of tags:

    http://faq.wordpress.com/2006/06/08/allowed-html-tags/

    Take my advice Burt, work on your objectivity rather than your html.

  95. For the record…..why is the Director-General of Health suppressing information over the goings-on at the Hawkes Bay DHB? Could it be that the contents of the suppressed report would be damaging to the government?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/02/still-more-on-hb-dhb.html

  96. Matthew Pilott 97

    Insider – just to clarify – I was definitely implying that monty was drunk, not yourself (you have a rationality and coherence he was lacking back there).

    As for your question (from about 5pm yesterday) – ‘wages’ implies not the rich fellers on salaries, but those on wages (as opposed to salaries). Wages dropping would imply to me businesses paying employees less. I’ve said this elsewhere but I Key would want wages to drop where they are artificially inflated (in his eyes, where anything non-market is an intervention and therefore bad), minimum wages, collective bargaining and the like.

  97. Draco TB 98

    For the record ..why is the Director-General of Health suppressing information over the goings-on at the Hawkes Bay DHB?

    This is something I would expect if there was a possibility of charges being laid. As such I’m not about to go round getting paranoid about it just yet.

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