Fomenting happy mischief. Indeed!

Written By: - Date published: 4:41 pm, December 13th, 2009 - 53 comments
Categories: blogs - Tags:

David has a new innovation at the sewer. The old comment voting system has been enhanced to, amongst other things, hide comments when they receive enough votes against. I had some fun testing this last week under various logins that I set up some years ago and keep active. It looks like an innovate quantitative social testing tool. You can see how it is useful to an organisation like Curia with its close ties to the National party polling system.

How does it work? Well not as big bruv* expected when I was using my lprent login.

big_bruv_commentBy the time I saw that, my comment looked rather like this with a lower score.

lprent_comment

My response to big bruv also wound up being hidden. It said that I was interested in how the rating system was operating, and explained why he actually managed to get banned at The Standard in the past.

In fact all of my comments as lprent got hidden. While sarcastic in parts as is my usual style,  each comment contained some substantive valid points or was responding to comments directed at me. See them for yourself. 1, 2, 3, and 4.

This type of innovative hiding of comments based on anonymous voting is interesting as it removes all level of personal responsibility for what is effectively a ban. It significantly reduces the feedback that follow-up comments by other commentators or moderators would give. As such you’d have to question its value in operant changes in behaviour.

Explaining the new rating system, David described it thus (my italics).

Comments with lots of positive ratings get highlighted. I have set the threshold for now to 5. I may need to raise it. I don’t want too many highlighted just those which get lots of people saying this is great.

Comments with lots of negative ratings gets hidden you can still read them if you want by clicking on them, but it allows you to skip over them. Now I have set the threshold at 10 negative comments, as I don’t want lots of comments hidden. I will increase this if people are voting comments down just because they may not agree with a comment, as opposed to it being a comment of poor quality. There is a huge difference.

Well I’d agree in principle, however you haven’t succeeded. Hopefully I’ve assisted in providing calibration data for your system, it looks like a threshold probably needs to be above 75 negative comments before the sewer rats stop voting against the person rather than the comment. However that is a ridiculous level. As it stands it simply entrenches bullying as the dominant social behaviour in the sewer by the majority in-group in a way that I have only seen in Hollywood high school dramas.

If that was not your intent, then you should probably limit the number of votes per period after the comment is made. That would allow your commentators to assess a value per each vote If you set it to say 10 votes per login per 24 hours, then less excitable people would have to think before using their votes up early. The coding would be trivial. Of course that also put a value on having several aliases that they use. But at least there is a cost to logging in and out that will reduce idle block voting.

But there are other interesting aspects to this system. Prior to this I’d left several comments to get a feel for the tolerances of the local in-group. These were from various well-established alter-egos on Kiwiblog. The results were quite interesting as an example of pack behaviours.

  • If the commentator and comment was left-leaning, they were hidden albeit with lesser anti-scores.
  • If they were distinctly centre and conservative then they got very close to the trigger values.
  • If they were outrageously right wingnut statements then they got very positive scores.
  • I didn’t try obviously green, elderly, female, young or old style comments as I’d need to establish some of these identities.

You’d have to say that this system, while low maintenance in terms of moderating effort, is very good at stifling robust debate on kiwiblog to a relatively small cohort of possible opinion sets.

I’m not expert at Skinner and related techniques. But this type of technique in operant conditioning (using punishment without clear feedback) is often used to drive test subjects either psychotic or into a hopeless unthinking conformance. Fortunately the commentators are not confined, so do have a choice of moving to other sites that do allow some freedom of expression which have clearly defined behaviour standards. Public Address, The Standard, or even No Minister come to mind.

However it does provide an interesting way of looking a social behaviours for sociologists, politicians, political activists and others looking at the tolerances and reactions in group behaviour. Put up an idea as a comment in the sewer and see how it votes amongst the wingnuts. This would be an invaluable way of examining the social attitudes and sensitivities to a meme by this group. However I’d suggest not using a well-known pseudonym as personal dislike appears to dominate the effect.

However I’m surprised that lab-rat usage wasn’t highlighted in David Farrars description of the rating system. The benefits should have been immediately obvious to someone who runs a social polling company like Curia. I intend to spend some time to write code to strip this valuable quantitative data from the public pages. It’d be far easier for David to do from the database, especially as it tracks who makes each vote as you cannot rate a comment more than once for a given login.

Because the bully system that the voting tends to assist, people whose comments get hidden will tend to not comment, leading to a purer test sample of the target audience. This will steadily increase the efficacy of the system to a polling company.

It must be a very happy mischief in creating your very own socially in-bred and  highly conformant lab group of wingnuts for testing.

* big bruv under that psuedonym was last banned for poor behaviour in April last year for tiresomely attacking this site rather than talking about anything with any substance. He has done a hundred or so comments since then with a few notes by moderators. Obviously the bans left a suitable, but not deterrent, impression to him expressing himself at odds. Just not repeating behaviours that were unacceptable – which is the intent of the moderation and bans.

updated: Spelling mistake in title.

53 comments on “Fomenting happy mischief. Indeed! ”

  1. BLiP 1

    The echo chamber just got louder.

  2. Farrar is bad news, unless you fit into a very narrow range of thoughts and beliefs, you are wasting your time at Farrar, he has become a parody of himself,
    expect it to get worser and worser.
    The site seems old to me now, and basically drivel centre right politico think.
    Of course the equal and opposite but the same is true of the Standard.

  3. Tim Ellis 3

    Good to see that bullying behaviour by other commenters is of concern to you LP.

  4. Rex Widerstrom 4

    Then you have sites that are the exact opposite of Kiwiblog, wherein the level of debate is generally considerably higher and the posts far better researched and more original but one wingnut blog owner leaps so heavily upon the slightest transgression that it’s easier to stay away than be addressed in an arrogant and dismissive manner as though one were, say, a university student who’d dared ask for an extension due to a death in the family.

    I’ve yet to find the “perfect” blog site… PA rarely discusses the harder political topics so is a “must-read but rarely contribute” and The Standard, while coming close, seems a little too successful at deterring the intelligent righties (yes, Victoria, the intelligemt righty does exist!) and tends to be left mostly with those who run lines (though there are enough outstanding exceptions to make it still a very worthwhile medium).

    I too am a little concerned about David’s new system. “Karma” didn’t used to worry me because I ignored it, and simply read comments from people (including some you’d no doubt chracterise as “extreme righties”) who I knew usually had something to say which would likely interest me.

    Asidfe from the fact that the new colours which highlight “well loved” and “hot debate” comments make me nauseous, the ability to make a comment “disappear” by voting it down seems to be encouraging those of a “pack” mentality to attack it (perhaps uner different aliases?) until it vanishes.

    And it appears entirely motivated by the identity of the poster… philu being a good example. Mostly his “Waynes World” approach to life and commenting style drives me up the wall. But on some issues – drug treatment, for instance – I’m eager to hear what he has to say even if I have to scramble through a field of ellipses to read it because he has personal experience to offer and has clearly given a great deal of thought to the topic.

    His comments on that issue aren’t even what I’d call “left”… if anythiing they’d almost fit with those of the Libertarianz… but they’re inevitably attacked by the swarm mind and given low karma.

    Before, there was at least a chance the uniformed might glance at “non conforming” comments on their way to have their prejudices reinforced. Now they can be made to disappear then, as BLiP says, the echo chamber just got… echoier.

  5. lprent 5

    Rex: I have yet to find the perfect blog as well. Unfortunately I don’t have much time to find one either. Running a blog takes too much time.

    I wrote that last night, finished and posted at my parents, and I’m writing this while getting some quick food on way back. Have to pick up Lyn at the airport.

    Doing the look at kiwiblogs new system reduced my posts last week. This weekend ‘off’ reduces my output next week because I have a lot of work to finish before Xmas. Oh well the joys of being a part time blogger sysop.

    We just keep doing incremental improvementson this one and see how far we get

    • Rex Widerstrom 5.1

      I hope you don’t think I meant The Standard (and you) in the first par Lynn!

      You do an exceptional job keeping it all running, and the fact that those on the right capable of intelligent discourse don’t seem to come here much, while disappointing, is hardly your fault.

      The fact that you’re so tolerant of those who do run tedious talking points illustrates that if there was a better level of debate you’d be letting it through.

      Unless of course there is, and it’s all a conspiracy to make the right look bereft of any creative thought 😀 😉

      • lprent 5.1.1

        ….that those on the right capable of intelligent discourse….

        I found a lot when I was on the MBA. Quite a few when I’ve been working. Virtually none on the blogs.

        I’ve come to the conclusion that we get the dregs of the ‘right’ on the blogs. I guess the good ones are doing things.

        I think that the left seems to be able to multi-task better. Brain structure perhaps?

  6. infused 6

    I don’t see how it’s any different from you guys removing people/deleting posts. It’s rather good not having to read comments that some of your posters make over there.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1

      I’d assume that not having to read comments you don’t like does save you from having to think.

    • lprent 6.2

      We seldom actually ban these days – weeks go by without it happening.

      People generally know the standard of behaviour that will trigger the moderator to stir into action.

      We also seldom delete posts unless people are banned. They usually wind up with a [deleted] on comment sections when they do just go over the edge as a warning. Some of the newer authors are still figuring out exactly what to do, but they really only do it on their own posts.

      Notes get added reasonably frequently to keep people aware of the edges. Typically this mainly happens with newbies to the site these days – ie the ones that look at the site as being virgin territory to troll.

      Of course once people attract attention, it tends to stay on them for a while.

      It is a bit of pain when some people moderate without initialing who did it – but again that is usually new authors trying it for the first time. I don’t like it. You should always know the personality who is doing it. But that is more educating the moderators.

  7. felix 7

    All together now righties: “WE’RE ALL INDIVIDUALS”.

    The most predictable blog around just got a little duller.

  8. Interesting. I have posted comments on Mr Farrer’s blog before, always courteous and seeking to make a reasonable point, but I find that I have been hidden. It is his blog, but I don’t think that I will post there again as I clearly cannot reach the standards of his audience. I doubt if either of us will feel much loss in this outcome!

  9. vto 9

    I read it about four times a year

    • lprent 9.1

      It is about the same for me. But I often also read the posts and comment streams where there is a link to The Standard.

      I also read most of the blog links in the left column about 4 times per year when I deciding if the linked site has gone moribund and should be set to private.

  10. Andrei 10

    I have to agree Lynn burying comments is a stupid idea, as is playing the man instead of the ball a sad fact of life in blog comments. Both here and there.

    But are you admitting to sockpuppeting on Kiwiblog in this post?

    Is so shame on you

    • lprent 10.1

      Ummm I do that everywhere when I have time, and have done so for over 20 years around the nets. One of the more interesting things around is to exercise your brain in a different pattern than your normal frame of reference. I do it here under my main login. lprent as sysop/moderator is pretty distinctive compared to lprent arguing my own opinions.

      The key is to actually argue what you believe in whatever guise it is. In my case, I have 50 years of experience to draw on, so usually I just pull up past personalities. For instance the left is some of my current thinking outside of here (where my roles are bit constrained) and the centre-right is from when I was doing an MBA and arguing with my left/green girlfriend.

      The wingnut attitude of course comes straight out of my adolescence before I went in the army. In those days I was so sure that whatever I thought was always right. The army was pretty good at showing that usually wasn’t the case and could get your platoon members killed.

      Whereas I guess that the normal sock-puppet usage seems to be related to doing provocateur actions – something I don’t usually do except in posts.

    • lprent 10.2

      Incidentally, if you look up AncientGeek on this site, you will find one of my personalities expressing itself in 2007 and early 2008. I used it early on when I wasn’t doing much with the site because we hadn’t agreed to do moderation, and when I was holding lprent in reserve for whenever that had to happen.

      Lyn reckons that one is closer to reality than either of the lprent ones.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11

    But this type of technique in operant conditioning (using punishment without clear feedback) is often used to drive test subjects either psychotic or into a hopeless unthinking conformance.

    So, RWNJ behaviour creates more RWNJs?

  12. Ruth 12

    The whole ‘karma’ system is ridiculous – it’s like star charts for pre-schoolers. Now there is a naughty chair, it seems!

  13. IrishBill 13

    To be fair to David frogblog has been running a similar system for some time and over there it does seem to keep the trolls down. I’d be very uncomfortable with any system like that here.

    • lprent 13.1

      Yeah – consider this post to be my report about why we shouldn’t have it after due investigation. I can’t think of an way to code something of that style that won’t run into the similar effects without getting into a epicycle on epicycle debugging accretion of rules.

      Looks like we’ll be stuck doing our idiosyncratic moderating for a while. And the commentators having to put up with it.

      • Bill 13.1.1

        WTF!

        I comment in some out of order way (by what ever way you pile of fuckwits decide is out of order), then moderate or ban me.

        at least I have some idea of what I have to deal with in your dictatorial blogospage word and can self moderate fairly confidently.

        Moderated by an anonymous herd! No, no ,no! That’s lowest common denominator bullshit given the nature of the forum.

    • Gosman 13.2

      As Irishbill has pointed out frogblog has a virtually identical system.

      Why haven’t you made a comment about this pefore lprent, especially considering they had their system in place much earlier?

      Don’t you post under multiple user names on frogblog then? 😉

      • lprent 13.2.1

        There are relatively few links from frogblog to The Standard that draw my attention to it. I seldom read frogblog comments, and I read their posts every couple of weeks*. My experience has been that the comments section, while it has a lot of interesting stuff, is tied up with Blue Peter and a few others making particularly insipid repetitive statements ad infinitium. So I wasn’t aware of their system. But I’m sure that the same things apply apart from the possible interest of Curia.

        Most sites that I read, I read the posts but seldom the comments, because I simply don’t have time to read all of the material in the posts.

        Kiwiblog links here frequently, I frequently get e-mails pointing out kiwiblog comments or posts about this site, and they often show up on the comments here. That draws my attention to them. That is probably a function of how many people read both the larger blog sites.

        * for a comparision, my iPhone which I read sites on the way to and from work has
        The Standard
        NZ Herald
        Red Alert
        No Right Turn
        Scoop
        The Economist
        Hot Topic
        Kiwipolitico (so few posts now *sigh*, but long interesting ones)
        Bowalley Road (ditto)
        plus a couple of techie sites for areas I work in.
        plus the e-mail lists.

        Obviously I read The Standard during the day. The rest are pretty much confined to the 90 minutes commuting each day – unless I take a car – in which case they don’t get read.

        I seldom get to read more than half of the material on that per day apart from The Standard

  14. Adam Jarvis 14

    The system described seems very similar to that of youtube. Users can thumbs up or down a particular post, the highly thumbs down posts being hidden.

    The system works in some cases, while failing tremendously in others.

    In music videos for example, i’ve noticed the feature coming in handy. Censored posts generally contain something along the lines of:

    “Zomg! Fuk ths sht. u giys r all losers” etc.

    I find this in most in most youtube videos actually. Everything from vlogs about popular culture, through rare Jethro Tull recordings to professional starcraft replays.

    Then there are times when the feature fails. It fails in the exact way Iprent has described. Viewers of the video are split into two sides and whichever side gains the ascendancy censors the comments of the other side. I see this on political channels (through the entire spectrum this happens, from libertarian to socialist), religious channels (theist and atheist) and channels supporting various causes from abstinence to gay rights.

    Essentially, if the channel is at all controversial… the feature does nothing but hinder robust debate and, interestingly enough, encourage flaming (from the side in the ascendancy). All it achieves is to create a sort of group think. On other channels, it seems to serve to cut down on the moderators job in weeding trolls and other evil doers.

    • lprent 14.1

      Yeah, it is pretty damn partisan here a *lot* of the time.

      About 5% of my moderating time these days is tied down moderating people saying that other people should be moderated or change their behaviour (from all sides).

      felix, gitmo, and travellev are the most frequent requests 😈

      That is after making it pretty damn clear that the moderators are jealous ogres who don’t share their roles. Hell I’ve been moderated by the other moderators….

  15. I take the negative Karmas and the Hidden Comments as a badge of honour!

    It’s nice to be appreciated. 🙂

  16. yawn 16

    Got nothing else to do except moan, again iprent. How about you make up some stunning science about the warming of the globe.

    While we are talking about managing dissent why don’;t we talk about your totalitarian penchant for removing any comments or commentators you don’t like. You really are a hypocritical boring old prick.

    [lprent: Sounds like another satisfied customer. Why don’t you learn to type? Too hard?
    Like actually understanding science. ]

  17. yawn 17

    SOUNDS LIKE IPRENT HAS BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF TIME TROLLING THE SITE HE PURPORTS TO HATE SO MUCH.

    LIFE? GET ONE? HMMM. SOUNDS LIKE IT. I SUPPOSE SINCE HE IS NO LOINGER HELENS IT BITCH AND OFF LINE HACKER (CARE TO COMMENT ABOUT DON LYN?) HE HAS NOTHING TO FILL HIS AGING CHILDLESS LIFE WITH.

    [lprent: Also has problems with the capslock, hasn’t read my comments about how often I look at kiwiblog, has an overrated idea of my capabilities (I suspect an inside job myself from what I know about the security at parliament), and doesn’t know my family but seems to feel qualified to comment on it.

    Keep commenting. You can be a pet so I can use you as an example of the worst type of unthinking moronic illiterate that helps to drag down the sewer and makes it unreadable. Sure you can vote, but it is hard to see how you can hold down a job. The system obviously failed you with the functional illiteracy you’ve displayed.

    Adding you to the auto-moderate. ]

  18. felix 18

    I don’t mean to be a spelling dick but there’s no “r” in “fomenting”.

    I’ve always thought David should’ve used “fermenting” anyway due to the unpleasant smell his site generates, but perhaps this new bully system signifies a move into distillation.

  19. oowdidums 19

    someones a little greek.

  20. sean14 20

    Your obsession with Farrar is a bit weird. If his blog is such rubbish let him keep going with it until it blows up in his face.

    I hate to think what your reaction was to learning that he’d made The Listener’s power list!

    • lprent 20.1

      I was looking at the rating system he’d introduced to decide if it was worthwhile using here.

      I pointed out the inherent flaws and did some speculation about possible uses of such a system.

      From memory that is the second or third post I’ve written about KB this year out of hundreds.

      How is it obsessional to observer the other major political blog to see if there are any ideas worth transferring? Are you more than a little paranoid?

      • Gosman 20.1.1

        It was pretty clear from previous comments you have made on this subject you had already come out against this system. Why you felt the need to create an entire blog post about it wasn’t exactly clear. Unless there was another reason to do so, perhaps because you decided the topic provided you ammunition to attack a rival blog?

        The tone of abuse evident in your comments against Kiwiblog, (i.e. use of the terms The Sewer, Sewer Rats, and Socially in-bred), would be highly indicative that you are just using this rather innocuous issue as an attack excuse rather than any serious interest in discussing if this system would have any benefits. This is further reinforced by the fact that you failed to pick up that it has been in use by other NZ Political blogs prior to now.

        If you really wanted to critique this system in a fair and balanced manner you should have included the other blogs as well.

        • lprent 20.1.1.1

          I’d spent time on looking at the system at Kiwiblog. I wasn’t impressed. So I said why, with some additional commentary about why such a system might be created.

          Also, in the case of kiwiblog, what goes around, comes around. I wasn’t exactly impressed with the opinions offered by kiwiblog, david, or the commentators over the last few years about this site.

          Besides the image of lab-rats running around the sewer being tapped for memes by National is kind of compelling. Of course being a lab-rat probably isn’t that appealing to you. But why should I care if it offends you?

  21. Chris C 21

    For what it’s worth, I treat all ratings systems with contempt, and just tend to vote for whichever side is losing. I like supporting the underdog, which is why I like Phoenix.

  22. randal 22

    looks like fatboy has his very own version of openness, honesty and democracy.
    drive tested in germany and the ussr in the 40’s.

    • Rex Widerstrom 22.1

      Would you be so kind, randal, as to offer a quick pen portrait of each of the posters at the Standard?

      It’s just that I’d like to be able to use epithets like “four eyes”, “fat arse”, “baldy” etc when critiquing their arguments.

  23. randal 23

    I dont know them and I dont know you.
    okay with you rex?
    however I do know fbf under another of his aliases on another site and his nastiness and mean spiritidness is legion.
    so if the cap fits wear it.

  24. randal 24

    and ususally rex people who have allowed their girth to expand beyond the point where it is noticeable is usually because of a psychological disposition to acquire personal power in the easiest manner possible.
    and to pretend that people are somehow internally objectively independent of their political philosophy is a conceit of those whose position is safe for the moment.
    merry xmas.

    [lprent: And that is hitting the bounds]

  25. randal 25

    okay.
    I give up.
    I promise to stop being innovative, thinking outside the square and most of all I promise to stop vibrating.

    [lprent: Not pointing out people are fat when it has no bearing on your point would be sufficient. That goes to being a gratuitous insult unless you can wind it in to your point. ]

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    Kissy kissy. Cartoon credit BoomSlang. The BFD. JC writes-  Allow me to preface this contribution with the following statement: If I were asked to express a preference between a National/ACT coalition or a National/ACT/NZF coalition then it would be the former. This week Luxon declared his position, ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • California’s climate disclosure bill could have a huge impact across the U.S.
    This re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Andy Furillo was originally published by Capital & Main and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. The California Legislature took a step last week that has the potential to accelerate the fight against climate ...
    2 days ago
  • Untangling South East Queensland’s Public Transport
    This is a cross post Adventures in Transitland by Darren Davis. I recently visited Brisbane and South East Queensland and came away both impressed while also pondering some key changes to make public transport even better in the region. Here goes with my take on things. A bit of ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    2 days ago
  • Try A Little Kindness.
    My daughter arrived home from the supermarket yesterday and she seemed a bit worried about something. It turned out she wanted to know if someone could get her bank number from a receipt.We wound the story back.She was in the store and there was a man there who was distressed, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • What makes NZFirst tick
    New Zealand’s longest-running political roadshow rolled into Opotiki yesterday, with New Zealand First leader Winston Peters knowing another poll last night showed he would make it back to Parliament and National would need him and his party if they wanted to form a government. The Newshub Reid Research poll ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago
  • September AMA
    Hi,As September draws to a close — I feel it’s probably time to do an Ask Me Anything. You know how it goes: If you have any burning questions, fire away in the comments and I will do my best to answer. You might have questions about Webworm, or podcast ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    2 days ago
  • Bludgers lying in the scratcher making fools of us all
    The mediocrity who stands to be a Prime Minister has a litany.He uses it a bit like a Koru Lounge card. He will brandish it to say: these people are eligible. And more than that, too: These people are deserving. They have earned this policy.They have a right to this policy. What ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • More “partnerships” (by the look of it) and redress of over $30 million in Treaty settlement wit...
    Buzz from the Beehive Point of Order has waited until now – 3.45pm – for today’s officially posted government announcements.  There have been none. The only addition to the news on the Beehive’s website was posted later yesterday, after we had published our September 26 Buzz report. It came from ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago
  • ALEX HOLLAND: Labour’s spending
    Alex Holland writes –  In 2017 when Labour came to power, crown spending was $76 billion per year. Now in 2023 it is $139 billion per year, which equates to a $63 billion annual increase (over $1 billion extra spend every week!) In 2017, New Zealand’s government debt ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • If not now, then when?
    Labour released its fiscal plan today, promising the same old, same old: "responsibility", balanced books, and of course no new taxes: "Labour will maintain income tax settings to provide consistency and certainty in these volatile times. Now is not the time for additional taxes or to promise billions of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • THE FACTS:  77% of Kiwis believe NZ is becoming more divided
    The Facts has posted –        KEY INSIGHTSOf New Zealander’s polled: Social unity/division 77%believe NZ is becoming more divided (42% ‘much more’ + 35% ‘a little more’) 3%believe NZ is becoming less divided (1% ‘much less’ + 2% ‘a little less’) ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the cynical brutality of the centre-right’s welfare policies
    The centre-right’s enthusiasm for forcing people off the benefit and into paid work is matched only by the enthusiasm (shared by Treasury and the Reserve Bank) for throwing people out of paid work to curb inflation, and achieve the optimal balance of workers to job seekers deemed to be desirable ...
    3 days ago
  • Wednesday’s Chorus: Arthur Grimes on why building many, many more social houses is so critical
    New research shows that tenants in social housing - such as these Wellington apartments - are just as happy as home owners and much happier than private tenants. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The election campaign took an ugly turn yesterday, and in completely the wrong direction. All three ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Old habits
    Media awareness about global warming and climate change has grown fairly steadily since 2004. My impression is that journalists today tend to possess a higher climate literacy than before. This increasing awareness and improved knowledge is encouraging, but there are also some common interpretations which could be more nuanced. ...
    Real ClimateBy rasmus
    3 days ago
  • Bennie Bashing.
    If there’s one thing the mob loves more than keeping Māori in their place, more than getting tough on the gangs, maybe even more than tax cuts. It’s a good old round of beneficiary bashing.Are those meanies in the ACT party stealing your votes because they think David Seymour is ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • The kindest cuts
    Labour kicks off the fiscal credibility battle today with the release of its fiscal plan. National is expected to follow, possibly as soon as Thursday, with its own plan, which may (or may not) address the large hole that the problems with its foreign buyers’ ban might open up. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago
  • Green right turn in Britain? Well, a start
    While it may be unlikely to register in New Zealand’s general election, Britain’s PM Rishi Sunak has done something which might just be important in the long run. He’s announced a far-reaching change in his Conservative government’s approach to environmental, and particularly net zero, policy. The starting point – ...
    Point of OrderBy xtrdnry
    3 days ago
  • At a glance – How do human CO2 emissions compare to natural CO2 emissions?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    3 days ago
  • How could this happen?
    Canada is in uproar after the exposure that its parliament on September 22 provided a standing ovation to a Nazi veteran who had been invited into the chamber to participate in the parliamentary welcome to Ukrainian President Zelensky. Yaroslav Hunka, 98, a Ukrainian man who volunteered for service in ...
    3 days ago
  • Always Be Campaigning
    The big screen is a great place to lay out the ways of the salesman. He comes ready-made for Panto, ripe for lampooning.This is not to disparage that life. I have known many good people of that kind. But there is a type, brazen as all get out. The camera ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • STEPHEN FRANKS: Press seek to publicly shame doctor – we must push back
    The following is a message sent yesterday from lawyer Stephen Franks on behalf of the Free Speech Union. I don’t like to interrupt first thing Monday morning, but we’ve just become aware of a case where we think immediate and overwhelming attention could help turn the tide. It involves someone ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Competing on cruelty
    The right-wing message calendar is clearly reading "cruelty" today, because both National and NZ First have released beneficiary-bashing policies. National is promising a "traffic light" system to police and kick beneficiaries, which will no doubt be accompanied by arbitrary internal targets to classify people as "orange" or "red" to keep ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Further funding for Pharmac (forgotten in the Budget?) looks like a $1bn appeal from a PM in need of...
    Buzz from the Beehive One Labour plan  – for 3000 more public homes by 2025 – is the most recent to be posted on the government’s official website. Another – a prime ministerial promise of more funding for Pharmac – has been released as a Labour Party press statement. Who ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Bryce Edwards: The Vested interests shaping National Party policies
    As the National Party gets closer to government, lobbyists and business interests will be lining up for influence and to get policies adopted. It’s therefore in the public interest to have much more scrutiny and transparency about potential conflicts of interests that might arise. One of the key individuals of ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago
  • Labour may be on way out of power and NZ First back in – but will Peters go into coalition with Na...
    Voters  are deserting Labour in droves, despite Chris  Hipkins’  valiant  rearguard  action.  So  where  are they  heading?  Clearly  not all of them are going to vote National, which concedes that  the  outcome  will be “close”. To the Right of National, the ACT party just a  few weeks  ago  was ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    4 days ago
  • GRAHAM ADAMS: Will the racists please stand up?
    Accusations of racism by journalists and MPs are being called out. Graham Adams writes –    With the election less than three weeks away, what co-governance means in practice — including in water management, education, planning law and local government — remains largely obscure. Which is hardly ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on whether Winston Peters can be a moderating influence
    As the centre-right has (finally!) been subjected to media interrogation, the polls are indicating that some voters may be starting to have second thoughts about the wisdom of giving National and ACT the power to govern alone. That’s why yesterday’s Newshub/Reid Research poll had the National/ACT combo dropping to 60 ...
    4 days ago
  • Tuesday’s Chorus: RBNZ set to rain on National's victory parade
    ANZ has increased its forecast for house inflation later this year on signs of growing momentum in the market ahead of the election. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: National has campaigned against the Labour Government’s record on inflation and mortgage rates, but there’s now a growing chance the Reserve ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • After a Pittsburgh coal processing plant closed, ER visits plummeted
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Katie Myers. This story was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. Pittsburgh, in its founding, was blessed and cursed with two abundant natural resources: free-flowing rivers and a nearby coal seam. ...
    4 days ago
  • September-23 AT Board Meeting
    Today the AT board meet again and once again I’ve taken a look at what’s on the agenda to find the most interesting items. Closed Agenda Interestingly when I first looked at the agendas this paper was there but at the time of writing this post it had been ...
    4 days ago
  • Electorate Watch: West Coast-Tasman
    Continuing my series on interesting electorates, today it’s West Coast-Tasman.A long thin electorate running down the northern half of the west coast of the South Island. Think sand flies, beautiful landscapes, lots of rain, Pike River, alternative lifestylers, whitebaiting, and the spiritual home of the Labour Party. A brief word ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Big money brings Winston back
    National leader Christopher Luxon yesterday morning conceded it and last night’s Newshub poll confirmed it; Winston Peters and NZ First are not only back but highly likely to be part of the next government. It is a remarkable comeback for a party that was tossed out of Parliament in ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • 20 days until Election Day, 7 until early voting begins… but what changes will we really see here?
    As this blogger, alongside many others, has already posited in another forum: we all know the National Party’s “budget” (meaning this concept of even adding up numbers properly is doing a lot of heavy, heavy lifting right now) is utter and complete bunk (read hung, drawn and quartered and ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    4 days ago
  • A night out
    Everyone was asking, Are you nervous? and my response was various forms of God, yes.I've written more speeches than I can count; not much surprises me when the speaker gets to their feet and the room goes quiet.But a play? Never.YOU CAME! THANK YOU! Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago
  • A pallid shade of Green III
    Clearly Labour's focus groups are telling it that it needs to pay more attention to climate change - because hot on the heels of their weaksauce energy efficiency pilot programme and not-great-but-better-than-nothing solar grants, they've released a full climate manifesto. Unfortunately, the core policies in it - a second Emissions ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • A coalition of racism, cruelty, and chaos
    Today's big political news is that after months of wibbling, National's Chris Luxon has finally confirmed that he is willing to work with Winston Peters to become Prime Minister. Which is expected, but I guess it tells us something about which way the polls are going. Which raises the question: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • More migrant workers should help generate the tax income needed to provide benefits for job seekers
    Buzz from the Beehive Under something described as a “rebalance” of its immigration rules, the Government has adopted four of five recommendations made in an independent review released in July, The fifth, which called on the government to specify criteria for out-of-hours compliance visits similar to those used during ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • Letter To Luxon.
    Some of you might know Gerard Otto (G), and his G News platform. This morning he wrote a letter to Christopher Luxon which I particularly enjoyed, and with his agreement I’m sharing it with you in this guest newsletter.If you’d like to make a contribution to support Gerard’s work you ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • LINDSAY MITCHELL: Alarming trend in benefit numbers
    Lindsay Mitchell writes –  While there will not be another quarterly release of benefit numbers prior to the election, limited weekly reporting continues and is showing an alarming trend. Because there is a seasonal component to benefit number fluctuations it is crucial to compare like with like. In ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • BRIAN EASTON: Has there been external structural change?
    A close analysis of the Treasury assessment of the Medium Term in its PREFU 2023 suggests the economy may be entering a new phase.   Brian Easton writes –  Last week I explained that the forecasts in the just published Treasury Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update (PREFU 2023) was ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • CRL Progress – Sep-23
    It’s been a while since we looked at the latest with the City Rail Link and there’s been some fantastic milestones recently. To start with, and most recently, CRL have released an awesome video showing a full fly-through of one of the tunnels. Come fly with us! You asked for ...
    5 days ago
  • Monday’s Chorus: Not building nearly enough
    We are heading into another period of fast population growth without matching increased home building or infrastructure investment.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Labour and National detailed their house building and migration approaches over the weekend, with both pledging fast population growth policies without enough house building or infrastructure investment ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Game on; Hipkins comes out punching
    Labour leader Chris Hipkins yesterday took the gloves off and laid into National and its leader Christopher Luxon. For many in Labour – and particularly for some at the top of the caucus and the party — it would not have been a moment too soon. POLITIK is aware ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Tax Cut Austerity Blues.
    The leaders have had their go, they’ve told us the “what?” and the “why?” of their promises. Now it’s the turn of the would be Finance Ministers to tell us the “how?”, the “how much?”, and the “when?”A chance for those competing for the second most powerful job in the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • MIKE GRIMSHAW:  It’s the economy – and the spirit – Stupid…
    Mike Grimshaw writes – Over the past 30-odd years it’s become almost an orthodoxy to blame or invoke neoliberalism for the failures of New Zealand society. On the left the usual response goes something like, neoliberalism is the cause of everything that’s gone wrong and the answer ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • 2023 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #38
    A chronological listing of news and opinion articles posted on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Sep 17, 2023 thru Sat, Sep 23, 2023. Story of the Week  Opinion: Let’s free ourselves from the story of economic growth A relentless focus on economic growth has ushered in ...
    6 days ago
  • The End Of The World.
    Have you been looking out of your window for signs of the apocalypse? Don’t worry, you haven’t been door knocked by a representative of the Brian Tamaki party. They’re probably a bit busy this morning spruiking salvation, or getting ready to march on our parliament, which is closed. No, I’ve ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    7 days ago
  • Climate Town: The Brainwashing Of America's Children
    Climate Town is the YouTube channel of Rollie Williams and a ragtag team of climate communicators, creatives and comedians. They examine climate change in a way that doesn’t make you want to eat a cyanide pill. Get informed about the climate crisis before the weather does it for you. The latest ...
    1 week ago
  • Has There Been External Structural Change?
    A close analysis of the Treasury assessment of the Medium Term in its PREFU 2023 suggests the economy may be entering a new phase. Last week I explained that the forecasts in the just published Treasury Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update (PREFU 2023) was similar to the May Budget BEFU, ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • Another Labour bully
    Back in June, we learned that Kiri Allan was a Parliamentary bully. And now there's another one: Labour MP Shanan Halbert: The Labour Party was alerted to concerns about [Halbert's] alleged behaviour a year ago but because staffers wanted to remain anonymous, no formal process was undertaken [...] The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Ignoring our biggest problem
    Its that time in the election season where the status quo parties are busy accusing each other of having fiscal holes in a desperate effort to appear more "responsible" (but not, you understand, by promising to tax wealth or land to give the government the revenue it needs to do ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • JERRY COYNE: A good summary of the mess that is science education in New Zealand
    JERRY COYNE writes –  If you want to see what the government of New Zealand is up to with respect to science education, you can’t do better than listening to this video/slideshow by two exponents of the “we-need-two-knowledge-systems” view. I’ve gotten a lot of scary stuff from Kiwi ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 week ago
  • Good news on the GDP front is accompanied by news of a $5m govt boost for Supercars (but what about ...
    Buzz from the Beehive First, we were treated to the news (from Finance Minister Grant Robertson) that the economy has turned a corner and New Zealand never was in recession.  This was triggered by statistics which showed the economy expanded 0.9 per cent in the June quarter, twice as much as ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago
  • The Scafetta Saga
    It has taken 17 months to get a comment published pointing out the obvious errors in the Scafetta (2022) paper in GRL. Back in March 2022, Nicola Scafetta published a short paper in Geophysical Research Letters (GRL) purporting to show through ‘advanced’ means that ‘all models with ECS > ...
    Real ClimateBy Gavin
    1 week ago
  • Friday's Chorus: Penny wise and pound foolish
    TL;DR: In the middle of a climate emergency and in a city prone to earthquakes, Victoria University of Wellington announced yesterday it would stop teaching geophysics, geographic information science and physical geography to save $22 million a year and repay debt. Climate change damage in Aotearoa this year is already ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • CHRIS TROTTER: Calling the big dog’s bluff
      For nearly thirty years the pundits have been telling the minor parties that they must be good little puppies and let the big dogs decide. The parties with a plurality of the votes cast must be allowed to govern – even if that means ignoring the ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 week ago
  • The electorate swing, Labour limbo and Luxon-Hipkins two-step
     Another poll, another 27 for Labour. It was July the last time one of the reputable TV company polls had Labour's poll percentage starting with a three, so the limbo question is now being asked: how low can you go?It seems such an unlikely question because this doesn't feel like the kind ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    1 week ago
  • A Womance, and a Nomance.
    After the trench warfare of Tuesday night, when the two major parties went head to head, last night was the turn of the minor parties. Hosts Newshub termed it “the Powerbrokers' Debate”.Based on the latest polls the four parties taking part - ACT, the Greens, New Zealand First, and Te ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago

  • New community-level energy projects to support more than 800 Māori households
    Seven more innovative community-scale energy projects will receive government funding through the Māori and Public Housing Renewable Energy Fund to bring more affordable, locally generated clean energy to more than 800 Māori households, Energy and Resources Minister Dr Megan Woods says. “We’ve already funded 42 small-scale clean energy projects that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Huge boost to Te Tai Tokerau flood resilience
    The Government has approved new funding that will boost resilience and greatly reduce the risk of major flood damage across Te Tai Tokerau. Significant weather events this year caused severe flooding and damage across the region. The $8.9m will be used to provide some of the smaller communities and maraes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Napier’s largest public housing development comes with solar
    The largest public housing development in Napier for many years has been recently completed and has the added benefit of innovative solar technology, thanks to Government programmes, says Housing Minister Dr Megan Woods. The 24 warm, dry homes are in Seddon Crescent, Marewa and Megan Woods says the whanau living ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Te Whānau a Apanui and the Crown initial Deed of Settlement I Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me...
    Māori: Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me te Karauna te Whakaaetanga Whakataunga Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me te Karauna i tētahi Whakaaetanga Whakataunga hei whakamihi i ō rātou tāhuhu kerēme Tiriti o Waitangi. E tekau mā rua ngā hapū o roto mai o Te Whānau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Plan for 3,000 more public homes by 2025 – regions set to benefit
    Regions around the country will get significant boosts of public housing in the next two years, as outlined in the latest public housing plan update, released by the Housing Minister, Dr Megan Woods. “We’re delivering the most public homes each year since the Nash government of the 1950s with one ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Immigration settings updates
    Judicial warrant process for out-of-hours compliance visits 2023/24 Recognised Seasonal Employer cap increased by 500 Additional roles for Construction and Infrastructure Sector Agreement More roles added to Green List Three-month extension for onshore Recovery Visa holders The Government has confirmed a number of updates to immigration settings as part of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Poroporoaki: Tā Patrick (Patu) Wahanga Hohepa
    Tangi ngunguru ana ngā tai ki te wahapū o Hokianga Whakapau Karakia. Tārehu ana ngā pae maunga ki Te Puna o te Ao Marama. Korihi tangi ana ngā manu, kua hinga he kauri nui ki te Wao Nui o Tāne. He Toa. He Pou. He Ahorangi. E papaki tū ana ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Renewable energy fund to support community resilience
    40 solar energy systems on community buildings in regions affected by Cyclone Gabrielle and other severe weather events Virtual capability-building hub to support community organisations get projects off the ground Boost for community-level renewable energy projects across the country At least 40 community buildings used to support the emergency response ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • COVID-19 funding returned to Government
    The lifting of COVID-19 isolation and mask mandates in August has resulted in a return of almost $50m in savings and recovered contingencies, Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Following the revocation of mandates and isolation, specialised COVID-19 telehealth and alternative isolation accommodation are among the operational elements ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Appointment of District Court Judge
    Susie Houghton of Auckland has been appointed as a new District Court Judge, to serve on the Family Court, Attorney-General David Parker said today.  Judge Houghton has acted as a lawyer for child for more than 20 years. She has acted on matters relating to the Hague Convention, an international ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government invests further in Central Hawke’s Bay resilience
    The Government has today confirmed $2.5 million to fund a replace and upgrade a stopbank to protect the Waipawa Drinking Water Treatment Plant. “As a result of Cyclone Gabrielle, the original stopbank protecting the Waipawa Drinking Water Treatment Plant was destroyed. The plant was operational within 6 weeks of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt boost for Hawke’s Bay cyclone waste clean-up
    Another $2.1 million to boost capacity to deal with waste left in Cyclone Gabrielle’s wake. Funds for Hastings District Council, Phoenix Contracting and Hog Fuel NZ to increase local waste-processing infrastructure. The Government is beefing up Hawke’s Bay’s Cyclone Gabrielle clean-up capacity with more support dealing with the massive amount ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Taupō Supercars revs up with Government support
    The future of Supercars events in New Zealand has been secured with new Government support. The Government is getting engines started through the Major Events Fund, a special fund to support high profile events in New Zealand that provide long-term economic, social and cultural benefits. “The Repco Supercars Championship is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • There is no recession in NZ, economy grows nearly 1 percent in June quarter
    The economy has turned a corner with confirmation today New Zealand never was in recession and stronger than expected growth in the June quarter, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. “The New Zealand economy is doing better than expected,” Grant Robertson said. “It’s continuing to grow, with the latest figures showing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Highest legal protection for New Zealand’s largest freshwater springs
    The Government has accepted the Environment Court’s recommendation to give special legal protection to New Zealand’s largest freshwater springs, Te Waikoropupū Springs (also known as Pupū Springs), Environment Minister David Parker announced today.   “Te Waikoropupū Springs, near Takaka in Golden Bay, have the second clearest water in New Zealand after ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More support for victims of migrant exploitation
    Temporary package of funding for accommodation and essential living support for victims of migrant exploitation Exploited migrant workers able to apply for a further Migrant Exploitation Protection Visa (MEPV), giving people more time to find a job Free job search assistance to get people back into work Use of 90-day ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Strong export boost as NZ economy turns corner
    An export boost is supporting New Zealand’s economy to grow, adding to signs that the economy has turned a corner and is on a stronger footing as we rebuild from Cyclone Gabrielle and lock in the benefits of multiple new trade deals, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. “The economy is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Funding approved for flood resilience work in Te Karaka
    The Government has approved $15 million to raise about 200 homes at risk of future flooding. More than half of this is expected to be spent in the Tairāwhiti settlement of Te Karaka, lifting about 100 homes there. “Te Karaka was badly hit during Cyclone Gabrielle when the Waipāoa River ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Further business support for cyclone-affected regions
    The Government is helping businesses recover from Cyclone Gabrielle and attract more people back into their regions. “Cyclone Gabrielle has caused considerable damage across North Island regions with impacts continuing to be felt by businesses and communities,” Economic Development Minister Barbara Edmonds said. “Building on our earlier business support, this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New maintenance facility at Burnham Military Camp underway
    Defence Minister Andrew Little has turned the first sod to start construction of a new Maintenance Support Facility (MSF) at Burnham Military Camp today. “This new state-of-art facility replaces Second World War-era buildings and will enable our Defence Force to better maintain and repair equipment,” Andrew Little said. “This Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Foreign Minister to attend United Nations General Assembly
    Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta will represent New Zealand at the 78th Session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) in New York this week, before visiting Washington DC for further Pacific focussed meetings. Nanaia Mahuta will be in New York from Wednesday 20 September, and will participate in UNGA leaders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Midwives’ pay equity offer reached
    Around 1,700 Te Whatu Ora employed midwives and maternity care assistants will soon vote on a proposed pay equity settlement agreed by Te Whatu Ora, the Midwifery Employee Representation and Advisory Service (MERAS) and New Zealand Nurses Association (NZNO), Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. “Addressing historical pay ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand provides support to Morocco
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