Franks and teh gays

Written By: - Date published: 5:47 pm, September 22nd, 2008 - 85 comments
Categories: Social issues - Tags: , , , , ,

National’s candidate for Wellington Central, Stephen Franks, is having a wee cry on his blog today over Agenda’s decision to air that embarrassing Youtube clip where he complains about “grumpy Christians and whining gays” and compares civil unions to marrying your dog.

Apparently he’s been “cited out of context” by “the militant gay media” and his Labour opponent Grant Robertson, a man who “makes a feature of being a gay activist” and “mentions it at every opportunity.”

Franks’ only crime, he’d have you believe, is that he tells it like it is. “In a PC world”, he laments, “PC opponents gain weapons from such plain speaking.”

Now Franksie’s been playing this shtick for a while and it’s starting to wear thin. ‘I’m a classical liberal,’ the excuse goes, ‘I just happen to vote against gay rights for highly principled reasons that nobody else understands, and I’m constantly getting misquoted saying bad things about gays because I’m a plain speaker.’

Problem is, you can only run that line for so long before people start to recognise a pattern of bigoted behaviour as the behaviour of a bigot.

See Stephen, Liberals don’t compare civil unions to marrying your dog, even in jest. They don’t describe the gay community as “riddled with pathologies“. And they certainly don’t try to amend the Human Rights Act to make it legal for landlords, employers and taxi drivers to discriminate against homosexuals.

There’s no “militant gay” agenda out to get you Stephen. They’re just responding to your attacks on their community, and your going on like this does make you look rather silly. Is it really so hard to admit that you’re just not that fond of the gays?

[Hat tip: Russell Brown]

85 comments on “Franks and teh gays ”

  1. Monty 1

    I was at a candidates Meeting with Franks, Bradford, Robertson and Rahui Katene (who I was very impressed with). The subject of the night was Social Justice. Bradford’s solutions were a disgrace and I advised her that the Greenie policies were economically stupid. Stephen was there and I had a chat afterwards –

    As a Practising catholic (therefore christian) I take absolutely no offence at what was said. I think that Stephen is right on the money and totally endorse what he said. More interesting is the fact that Grant has a poodle who basically takes a video camera to eery meeting waiting for any comment from Stephen which can then be used to take anything he says is jest or otherwise right out of context. I am sure that If I did the same then I could get the same sort of trivial crap on Grant-

    Are you lefties so threatened by Stephen (who is certainly a very good chance in Wellington) that you need to record his every word in the hope of getting a statement out of context? Following dear Leaders directive to be a nasty and dirt as it takes to try and win the election (ha – at 18% points behind you are toast regardless)

  2. Simple (renamed RC) 2

    Im no fan of stephan franks but he is more experienced in the real world than grant robertson, yes i am alleging that unionists are absent from the real world

  3. Scribe 3

    See Stephen, Liberals don’t compare civil unions to marrying your dog, even in jest.

    You’re right, Tane. They compare pro-lifers to the Taliban, and are dead serious when they do it.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/4582677a1861.html

    You liberals must be proud.

  4. Draco T Bastard 4

    They compare pro-lifers to the Taliban

    They’re comparing one bunch of lunatic religious fanatics with another. Seems reasonable to me.

  5. Tane 5

    Monty. The flat meeting was a public event. TV3 was there. I understand it was openly recorded. Watch the clip again, you’ll see Franks dug his own hole.

  6. Quoth the Raven 6

    Scribe – Who are the people that bomb abortion clinics?

  7. Anita 7

    Let’s not forget that Stephen Franks tried to gut the Human Rights Act and make discrimination against homosexuality, children born outside marriage, and a variety of other “sins” explicitly legal.

  8. More interesting is the fact that Grant has a poodle who basically takes a video camera to eery meeting waiting for any comment from Stephen which can then be used to take anything he says is jest or otherwise right out of context. I am sure that If I did the same then I could get the same sort of trivial crap on Grant-. More interesting is the fact that Grant has a poodle who basically takes a video camera to eery meeting waiting for any comment from Stephen which can then be used to take anything he says is jest or otherwise right out of context. I am sure that If I did the same then I could get the same sort of trivial crap on Grant-

    No, it was a candidates meeting, with the novelty of being held in a living room. TV3 were there, as were various spectators of differing persuasions. It was a Public Meeting.

    If someone says something once, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. If they say the same thing multiple times, and back those statements up with action, we have no choice but to take those words seriously.

    As for the comparison between anti-abortionists and the Taliban. I think it is a valid one. The Taliban are certainly much worse, but the difference is in how much they think a woman’s body should be controlled.

  9. roger nome 9

    hah! Classy. Surely franks knows that Wellington Central, as a cosmopolitan centre, has a large queer-friendly population? Bigoted and politcally stupid. Well played stephen … well played.

  10. Piggy 10

    Franks’ behavior there was pretty terrible, but maybe in the interest of fairness you should also post this clip, from somebody who acts as badly as him. Is this the way a ‘liberal’ ought to treat their ‘friends?’

  11. randal 11

    getting crazy now dudes. all the dweebs have bought all these sleazo tactics from spindoctors inc., that are simple replicas of the tactics used by rich american seekers of ooffice. all this stuff used to go on before underground but with the advent of the net and the impossibility of polcing everything at once and the psychological desire for stimulation necessary to running comlex advanced cultures at full capcity then then this is what you get now. its still sleazy because no matter how much it is attmepted to be reported in the press it is usuallyy counterproductive as people are repulsed by over exposure to abhorrent claims and grpahci pictorial representation in the press and tv. people have their own needs and will reject over exposure to prurient material adverting deviant perverted behaviour ad nauseum.
    and besides their is a good movie ona t the moment..roger and out

  12. More interesting is the fact that Grant has a poodle who basically takes a video camera to eery meeting waiting for any comment from Stephen which can then be used to take anything he says is jest or otherwise right out of context.

    No, he doesn’t. That’s just Franks’ paranoid belief.

    The video was taken by James Barber, a young Green Party member who sent it in to Agenda after the programme solicited such “citizen journalist” material and offered a mobile phone as a prize. The Robertson camp didn’t even know who Barber was until he explained it yesterday.

    For me, the story is less Franks’ “dog” analogy, which he’s expressed before, than his extraordinary string of allegations against Robertson (which might be summarised as “the gays are coming to get me!”). These were not only idiotic, they were baseless. A decent man would apologise to his opponent, but I think Franks’ anger runs too deep for that.

  13. Scribe 13

    They’re comparing one bunch of lunatic religious fanatics with another. Seems reasonable to me.

    Many intelligent atheists are prolifers, Draco.

    Scribe – Who are the people that bomb abortion clinics?

    Usually people who have some sort of mental problem, Quoth. And the acts, rare as hen’s teeth, are immediately condemned by pro-life organisations.

    Most attacks on abortion clinics are performed when they are empty, so they’re to make a point, not hurt anyone.

    Alveda King, the niece of a guy who knew a thing or two about civil rights, has said abortion is the greatest civil rights injustice of our time.

    What do others think is the greatest civil rights injustice of our time? And what would you do to protest against it?

  14. Dom 14

    I don’t understand the right-wing rage about Franks’ true opinions being ‘outed’ (so to speak).

    Franks has claimed that the gay lobby is trying to paint him as homophobic. That’s misdirection. Franks clearly is homophobic but doesn’t even have the guts to be upfront about it.

  15. Trouble 15

    “Many intelligent atheists are prolifers”

    Which ones? The only sound argument I’ve ever heard in favour of treating an embryo with the rudiments of a central nervous system as if it has the same moral standing as a newborn and semi-independently functioning infant, or a reasoning adult, is that it has a soul.

    The US violence figures of 7 murders, 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 assaults and 655 anthrax hoaxes isn’t hen’s teeth, and it isn’t attributable to mental illness. While most pro-life organisations don’t support such violence, a handful certainly do, and a bunch more do their best to make excuses and minimise its impact, as Scribe has just done. Threats might not “hurt” anyone, but they certainly scare them.

    And Alveda King’s opposition to abortion is not some religion-free thing – her outfit is explicitly Christian. Sure, there’s some overlap between civil and religious rights, but many people support the latter without buying into the former.

  16. Trouble 16

    I meant valid, not sound. Sound implies that all the prepositions in a logical argument are correct, and many people including most atheists do not accept that souls exist.

  17. “Which ones? The only sound argument I’ve ever heard in favour of treating an embryo with the rudiments of a central nervous system as if it has the same moral standing as a newborn and semi-independently functioning infant, or a reasoning adult, is that it has a soul.”

    Not only that, but all the while the same people want to deny human rights to children after their birth, by allowing for, and even condoning in some cases explicit assaults against them.

    These are also the same people who constantly assert that the current government is authoritarian, and yet they propose even more draconian population control measures as a so-called deterrent. As if they were a deterrent in the first place?

    The very same people who decry Winston Peter’s corruption as total unethical are in many cases just as guilty, or even worse? Do you really think Peters learned all of his funding tricks since 1992?

  18. Scribe 18

    Trouble,

    Comments like “who’s bombing abortion clinics?” (further up) try to paint a picture of pro-lifers causing massive death and destruction. It’s a fallacy. I think you’d find many more religiously motivated attacks than the wikipedia numbers you cite above, which were supplied by a pro-abortion agency.

    I never said Alveda King’s opposition to abortion was religion-free, just as her uncle’s opposition to segregation etc wasn’t religion-free.

    What is the greatest civil rights issue of our time, Trouble?

    And when does life begin? Should abortions be performed at any stage of pregnancy?

    Regarding pro-life atheists:

    Nat Hentoff is the best known: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/28/abortion-senator-to-abortion-president/

    Here’s a group Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League: http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html

    Another pro-life atheist profiled here: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/oct/07100503.html

  19. Scribe 19

    Policy Parrot,

    These are also the same people who constantly assert that the current government is authoritarian, and yet they propose even more draconian population control measures as a so-called deterrent. As if they were a deterrent in the first place?

    Can you explain this? What are these “draconian population control measures”?

  20. Pascal's bookie 20

    And when does life begin?

    Define life.

    I don’t think that there is any single point that you can say where an individual’s life ‘begins’.

    There is certainly no point at which you can say, before x the tissue is not alive and after x it is alive. So I think the question is very poorly formed.

  21. Scribe 21

    Pb,

    I think it’s a fine question, but how about we try another one. Well, another two?

    What happens to an unborn child between conception and birth to change its “status”? Do you think women should be able to abort at any stage of their pregnancy?

  22. randal 22

    It shoudl always be a womans right to abort at any stage of the pregnancy. there are over 7,000,000,000 homo sapiens sapiens running around the planet now grabbing anything and everything they can and by and large stinking the joint up so any attempt to lessen the number is to be applauded.

  23. Scribe 23

    there are over 7,000,000,000 homo sapiens sapiens running around the planet now grabbing anything and everything they can and by and large stinking the joint up so any attempt to lessen the number is to be applauded.

    Death penalty OK too, then?

    captcha: emotions few

  24. Anita 24

    Franks is homophobic, and a number of current National MPs supported his attempt to make discrimination against homosexuals legal.

    Key, English, Ryall and Collins (among others) voted for an attempt to restrict access to abortion.

    It’s not surprising they’re trying to shut down every discussion about their social conservatism.

  25. Pascal's bookie 25

    Scribe,

    Firstly ‘conception’ is a process, not a point. And why start at ‘conception’ in any case.

    That’s the problem that you are not seeing. What happens in between ‘conception’ and birth is development. Just like what happens during the process of ‘conception’.

    Development is, by definition, changes in what it is at any given point in time. It’s ‘status’ changes, and any marker points you care make are artificial, based around your assumptions rather than on what is actually happening to the tissue.

    But the underlying point is that there are different ideas about when we should confer human being rather than human tissue status.

    These different beliefs are honestly held, and unresolvable. The question from a policy point of view becomes “what should we allow?” Pro lifers usually assert that no view other than there’s is legitimate. They reject pluralism in this instance. Pro choice folk say that a person should be able to follow their conscience, given that there are these unresolvable, honestly held differences of opinion.

    Stepping outside of your personal opinion about the status of a fetus, what’s wrong with that from a policy point of view?

  26. randal 26

    its really interesting that the people who grab and snatch for everything are the same ones who want an unlimited supply of supplicants to their monuments of greed and self gratification by the accumulation of property and goods.

  27. Scribe 27

    Anita,

    Key, English, Ryall and Collins (among others) voted for an attempt to restrict access to abortion.

    I assume you’re referring to the attempt to have girls under 16 notify their parents before they have an abortion. Can you please list other medical procedures 12-year-old girls should be allowed to have without parental knowledge and/or consent.

    Heck, they can’t even get vaccinations to help stop illness without consent, yet a process that increases the likelihood of drug/alcohol abuse, depression and suicidal tendencies, not to mention physical complications, shouldn’t need permission?

    Please tell me you were objecting to their vote on another issue.

  28. Scribe 28

    Pb,

    I just struggle to reconcile the notion some people have that it’s OK to abort an eight-week-old preborn child but it’s not OK to abort a 39-week-old preborn child. Some think either is fine, but many people of good intention have those ideas, which I find muddled.

    Abortion is legal in New Zealand now but the law is being flouted. People range in views from no abortion ever to abortion at any stage, and children from botched abortions shouldn’t even receive medical attention.

    It’s time the issue was discussed again. Legal proceedings may lead to that discussion.

  29. Anita 29

    Scribe,

    No, I’m referring to them supporting Peter Brown’s attempt to put Peter Hall, an anti-abortion doctor, on the Abortion Supervisory Committee. I wrote about it over here.

    If Brown and Copeland’s amendments had both succeeded (and both gained the support of the majority of voting Nats) we would have an ASC where the majority of members want to move from the status quo to a more restrictive regime.

  30. Scribe 30

    If Brown and Copeland’s amendments had both succeeded (and both gained the support of the majority of voting Nats) we would have an ASC where the majority of members want to move from the status quo to a more restrictive regime.

    Anita,

    The status quo is, for all intents and purposes, unlawful. A High Court judge has said so.

    When you say “more restrictive” do you really mean “applying the law”?

  31. Lew 31

    The fact that a couple of the homophobe apologists (yes, Scribe, though you’re one of the more reasoned Christian conservatives about, you’re one) have managed to turn this debate from being about the extreme statements of a candidate for an allegedly mainstream, moderate and inclusive party into yet another pointless debate on abortion is a great example of agenda control. Why argue the points your opponents want you to argue about? Argue your own points. Argue the initial topic of the post. Engaging with the pot-kettle-black and misdirection arguments is simply fuel for the fire. Ignore it; it’s irrelevant.

    The issue here is transparency. We’ve got a politician actually saying what he means, apparently meaning what he says, and then getting pissy for the fact that it was reported. That’s the story – not the merits of what he said. Such clarity is all too rare – we should be thanking Stephen Franks for his – ahem – frankness. As we should be thanking John Hayes for his on the minimum wage; and John Key for his forthright position on Winston Peters, and Hone Harawira for his views on John Howard, and so on.

    Or are Franks’ defenders here arguing that he’s not being homophobic? Because I’d like to see that argument fly.

    L

  32. Anita 32

    Lew,

    I’m one of the people happily including abortion within the debate; and I’m pretty sure I’m not a homophobe apologist 🙂

    Franks’ statements are the statements of a single bigot.

    Taken within the context of National Party (and its leader, senior MPs, backbenchers and candidates) positions on GLBT issues, abortion, gender equity, Māori issues, poverty, families and so on we see that rather than a stand-alone bigot we are seeing a socially conservative party ready to legislate for a conservative, uptight and bigoted New Zealand.

  33. Scribe 33

    Lew,

    My first comment on this thread was to demonstrate Tane’s hypocrisy. I’m sure I could have found other examples, but Trotter’s Taliban comparison remains firmly in my mind. I — honest to God — didn’t mean to turn the thread into a discussion on abortion.

    I don’t know enough about Franks to know if he’s homophobic or not. Opposing civil unions or gay marriage doesn’t necessarily make one homophobic. Some homosexuals opposed the CUB, after all. And there were homosexuals in California who opposed the recent change there to allow gay marriage (vote still to come in November).

  34. Anita 35

    Scribe,

    I don?t know enough about Franks to know if he?s homophobic or not. Opposing civil unions or gay marriage doesn?t necessarily make one homophobic.

    Franks tried to change the Human Rights Act to make it explicitly legal to discriminate against homosexuals. I’m sure that a well trained legal mind can explain that away, but it sounds an awful lot like textbook homophobia to me.

  35. Scribe 36

    Anita,

    McDonald’s or Foodtown shouldn’t be able to refuse employment to someone because they are Maori, gay, female or all three.

    But should, for argument’s sake, a Muslim school be able to refuse employment to someone who lives a lifestyle incompatible with Islam?

  36. Lew 37

    Scribe: Yes, and your initial comment was classic pot-kettle-black. Irrelevant in this context, unless you believe Tane is Grant Robertson, or someone else of similar civic standing. Just distracting from the actual issue at hand.

    I don’t know Stephen Franks personally, and as such I can only judge him from his publicly-held positions. So I don’t personally know he is a homophobe, but his statements indicate that in all likelihood he is one. That’s fine – his right to be so; our right to know about it.

    I agree that opposing civil unions or gay marriage in the isolated case doesn’t make one a prima facie homophobe. However there are three other issues here:

    1. Your appeal that `some homosexuals opposed the CUB, after all’ is fallacious unless you look at the reasons for their opposition. Many, for instance, opposed it because it created a separate category for gay marriage rather than allowing queers access to the same cultural status as straights. That’s quite the opposite of what you imply. If you can find a significant body of queer opinion which is arguing `we don’t want the right to be joined in a relationship similar to marriage because it will harm NZ’s notional family unit’ then I’ll grant you this point. Good luck.

    2. Stephen Franks’ grounds for opposing the CUB on the basis of a comparison between homosexuality and bestiality the what’s at issue – not the fact of his opposition to it, the justification. The belief that homosexuality and bestiality are in any way comparable is an explicitly, unambigouosly homophobic position – like the assertion that homosexuality and paedophilia are comparable. You are free to hod these positions if you choose – but be advised that they are homophobic positions, and people have some justification in considering you to be homophobic if you hold them.

    3. In the context of Stephen Franks’ attempts to repeal provisions in the BORA which generally preclude discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, I don’t think his statements here should come as a surprise or a shock to anyone. They are entirely consistent. The comparison of sex with (or love for) a dog to sex with (or love for) another human being of the same gender makes his view quite crystal clear: homosexuals are animals. His view that queers shouldn’t have the rights afforded all other humans is also crystal clear: homosexuals are not humans.

    So you tell me: does he seem homophobic, or not?

    L

  37. “Scribe
    I assume you’re referring to the attempt to have girls under 16 notify their parents before they have an abortion. Can you please list other medical procedures 12-year-old girls should be allowed to have without parental knowledge and/or consent.”

    Personally I’d have anyone above 12 have final say on what happens to their body. You do realize it’s blatantly obvious that the only reason you want parental consent is to try and prevent more girls from having abortions. At least be honest, you don’t give a fuck about their health, hell your looking to use pregnancy and child birth as a punishment, you practically have no moral ground to stand on.

    Its also fairly hypocritical that you claim that a parent should have complete control over a 12-16 year old, hell 16 year old’s can move out of home and disown their parents (another freedom that family fist is highly aggrieved about) yet a 12 to 16 year old should not have complete control over a fetus that is only human but the most tenuous of reasoning.

    “Scribe

    Heck, they can’t even get vaccinations to help stop illness without consent, yet a process that increases the likelihood of drug/alcohol abuse, depression and suicidal tendencies, not to mention physical complications, shouldn’t need permission?”

    Flawed ideological agenda pushing research. Most teenage girls who get pregnant engage in multiple high risk behaviors, and its that that raises the likely hood of depression. The researches need to establish causation, but even if they did it could probably be solved by you bloody bible bashers leaving others the fuck alone and stop trying to guilt trip them into your religion.

    Personally I don’t like abortion, I just think its a greater evil for force my beliefs on someone else.

  38. Anita 39

    Scribe,

    McDonald’s or Foodtown shouldn’t be able to refuse employment to someone because they are Maori, gay, female or all three.

    Franks wants it to be legal for McDonalds and Foodtown to refuse employment to someone because they’re gay or have an illegitimate child.

    He’s a lovely man.

    But should, for argument’s sake, a Muslim school be able to refuse employment to someone who lives a lifestyle incompatible with Islam?

    Want to give me more detail?

    Drinks alcohol in non-work related contexts (e.g. a family dinner) no the school shouldn’t be able to discriminate.

    Wears tshirts with pictures of the Virgin Mary on it to school while employed as a teacher? The school should be able to set an appropriate dress code (no representational art, no religion symbolism, whatever) and enforce it.

  39. Scribe 40

    Anita,

    Franks wants it to be legal for McDonalds and Foodtown to refuse employment to someone because they’re gay or have an illegitimate child.

    I’ve never liked Franks. If this is true (and I doubt it is), that’s just another reason.

    What if a teacher at a Muslim school is openly gay? Should the school be able to dismiss him/her?

  40. Scribe 41

    KITNO,

    You’re right, I don’t want girls to have an abortion. But if they’re under 16 (note UNDER 16), at the very least I want them to consult with their parents and be given full information from health professionals on the development of the foetus and the possible flow-on effects from having an abortion.

    If a girl has an abortion and suffers from physical or mental problems, which is very likely, at least the parents might have some inkling why that is.

    fetus that is only human but the most tenuous of reasoning

    Funny how you went from “a fetus that is only human but the most tenuous of reasoning” to someone fully human, without any outside intervention.

    Flawed ideological agenda pushing research.

    Shame for you that the research, conducted in New Zealand, was led by a pro-choice atheist. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists in the UK now require doctors to discuss the possible impacts on mental health with women seeking abortion, so it’s obviously much deeper than the agenda-driven claims you make.

  41. Draco T Bastard 42

    You’re right, I don’t want girls to have an abortion. But if they’re under 16 (note UNDER 16), at the very least I want them to consult with their parents…

    You do realise that the reason why pregnant girls under 16 don’t have to consult their parents about an abortion is to protect them from their parents don’t you?

  42. “Flawed ideological agenda pushing research.

    Shame for you that the research, conducted in New Zealand, was led by a pro-choice atheist. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists in the UK now require doctors to discuss the possible impacts on mental health with women seeking abortion, so it’s obviously much deeper than the agenda-driven claims you make.”

    Girls who get pregnant are more likely to engage in multiple high risk behaviours. These include drugs, binge drinking, promiscuous sex, abusive boyfriends and crime. A large part of the reason people get into those kind of situations and lifestyles is because they engage in very little long term planning and evaluation of previous actions. They live here and now, with very few long term goals. I think than having and abortion weighing on their conscience (the guilt from which is a social construction from you lot) is much less of a factor than abusive boyfriends and sustained heavy drug use.

    You’re right, I don’t want girls to have an abortion. But if they’re under 16 (note UNDER 16), at the very least I want them to consult with their parents and be given full information from health professionals on the development of the foetus and the possible flow-on effects from having an abortion

    Any response to my criticism that parental notification is just another way to force a teenage girl not to have an abortion?

    The only way I could accept parental notification is if it occurs after the abortion, and even then I don’t fully support it.

    Why is the development of the foetus relevant for any reason other than to guilt trip a girl out of having an abortion? You might have some more creditability if anti abortion campaigners didn’t have such a long history of misrepresenting the facts on this issue.

    And if its for the parents to decide what’s best for their daughter, why shouldn’t the government be able to decide what’s best for you?

    This is all regardless of the fact that a girl getting pregnant under the age of 16 is likely to be the result of very bad parenting in the first place.

    You not really one for harm minimisation though are you?

  43. Scribe 44

    Draco,

    Yes, and I find it strange — nay, crazy — that young girls can make a massive decision like this without parental input.

    As much as some people might like to downplay abortion and its impact, this isn’t the equivalent of getting a filling at the dentist.

  44. 2. Stephen Franks’ grounds for opposing the CUB on the basis of a comparison between homosexuality and bestiality the what’s at issue – not the fact of his opposition to it, the justification. The belief that homosexuality and bestiality are in any way comparable is an explicitly, unambigouosly homophobic position – like the assertion that homosexuality and paedophilia are comparable. You are free to hod these positions if you choose – but be advised that they are homophobic positions, and people have some justification in considering you to be homophobic if you hold them.

    I’ve always found this one of their most laughably weak talking points, only for bandying about amongst themselves or on fox news. Simple simple reasoning, is it consensual? Yes, then its fine. No, it’s not fine. Animals cannot consent, simple as that, but still they try pull that line, its beyond belief almost.

  45. Scribe – you are a Neanderthal. I recall you were the main pain in the arse on the abortion thread too. Why don’t you f*ck off back to your theist cave and your daddy-god and let the rest of us get on with living as grown adults? F*ckin pathetic…

    [Tane: Lay off the personal attacks Sod. I don’t want to have to ban you again.]

  46. Scribe 47

    Robinsod,

    Sorry. I thought blogs were places where people discuss ideas. My mistake.

    Don’t worry; I’ll pray for you 😉

    [lprent: It is, and the ‘sod is lucky that Tane got to him first. I think that you’d probably have to pray pretty hard. ]

  47. Quoth the Raven 48

    Scribe – Your first comment on this thread was facetious little remark and I countered it with something deserving. So just relax, we’ll get our guns out and shoot some unitarians… BANG.. BANG.

  48. Scribe 49

    I’m relaxed, Quoth. I’ll pray for you and the unitarians as well.

  49. “Scribe
    September 23, 2008 at 7:37 pm
    I’m relaxed, Quoth. I’ll pray for you and the unitarians as well.”

    I’ll have some of my gay friend pray for you next time they are having anal sex.

  50. Scribe 51

    Thanks KITNO. Much appreciated.

  51. Lew 52

    KITNO: Well, the logical flaw is present in the very language of the clip – the question (put by Franks) is `if two people love each other, why can’t they be married?’

    Two people. Then he goes and uses an example containing one person and one non-person. And wonders why he gets shot down in flames.

    Incidentally, I think it’s amazing how some of you lot make people like Scribe (sorry, Scribe, you’re in the gun here as a bigot for defending Franks) seem progressive and compassionate. The dude wants to deny people the same rights as others based on the teachings of an old book, and yet you guys (Sod, QtR and KITNO) make him seem reasonable.

    And then you wonder why people give social liberals such a hard time.

    L

  52. Thats your perception, not ours.

  53. Lew 54

    KITNO: Thank you, Captain Obvious.

    L

  54. Sorry, just looks like some of the righties these days think that saying something makes it true.

  55. Pascal's bookie 56

    Scribe, You didn’t really answer this question:

    Pro choice folk say that a person should be able to follow their conscience, given that there are these unresolvable, honestly held differences of opinion.

    Stepping outside of your personal opinion about the status of a fetus, what’s wrong with that from a policy point of view?

    You sort of said that you don’t understand how someone sees a difference between a fetus at different stages of development, but that is nowhere near the question I asked. Which is about policy and what we should do, given we don’t agree with each other.

    Repeating that we disagree is pointless, unless you think, like the Taliban, that your revealed truth just, must, be law. Please don’t be offended, I’m asking, not accusing. And bear in mind that pro lifers say some truly terrible things about pro choice people, simply because they disagree.

    In answer to your question about Muslim schools, no, I don’t think they should be allowed to sack someone just because they are gay. If the person is teaching the courses as the school wants, in the way they want, then I see no reason to fire them. But I’m open to argument, though not if the school receives one cent of government funding. Do you disagree?

  56. Anita 57

    Scribe,

    Here is the SOP containing Franks’ attempt to make discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation and marital status legal.

  57. Draco T Bastard 58

    Scribe:

    Yes, and I find it strange — nay, crazy — that young girls can make a massive decision like this without parental input.

    Jesus Scribe – did you read what I said?
    I said that the law is the way it is to protect the girl from her parents. I’m pretty sure that a girl would go to her parents if she was in a loving and supportive home. If she was pregnant to her father from rape she would probably have second thoughts. Think the father would be overly supportive of the police becoming involved as well or do you think he may be inclined to go further than rape?

    Laws like this allows those kids in such abusive situations to get the help that they need.

  58. Scribe 59

    Pb,

    Pro choice folk say that a person should be able to follow their conscience, given that there are these unresolvable, honestly held differences of opinion.

    Stepping outside of your personal opinion about the status of a fetus, what’s wrong with that from a policy point of view?

    Sorry, didn’t mean to dodge the question. I’ll be honest and say that I struggle to step outside of my personal opinion, though I empathise with couples who find themselves facing an unwanted pregnancy.

    From a policy point of view, I think it’s indefensible that women and girls seeking abortion aren’t required to give informed consent. I understand that it would be very difficult (ask Bill English), because of the ideologies of people on both side of the debate, but abortion must be the only major surgical procedure that doesn’t require informed consent.

    Hope that answers the question (though not sure it does).

    And bear in mind that pro lifers say some truly terrible things about pro choice people, simply because they disagree.

    I agree. I find that disappointing. And let’s not forget pro-choice people have some pretty nasty things to say about pro-lifers too.

  59. Anita 60

    Scribe,

    Actually all women undergoing an abortion are required to give informed consent, for example here is Capital Coast DHB’s process description.

    I think the issue you’re referring to is that what English wants to be included in the “informing” part of informed consent is different from what is currently included.

  60. randal 61

    well this thread is a bundle of larfs. why dont you lot just accept the legislation and move on. Freaks like Franks are always going to try and make some mileage about others sexuality but that is to be expected in a conflicted personality. just ignore him!

  61. Anita 62

    randal,

    Which legislation?

    Franks and his more senior National mates have a clear agenda of moving toward a more socially conservative New Zealand.

  62. Scribe 63

    If she was pregnant to her father from rape she would probably have second thoughts. Think the father would be overly supportive of the police becoming involved as well or do you think he may be inclined to go further than rape?

    Is there a less likely way to get pregnant than a girl being raped by her father? I can think of one — circa 2008 years ago.

    There will be incredibly rare circumstances when a parent shouldn’t be informed. Health professionals and social workers should have limited discretion to make that decision. Notifying parents should be the default position, unless there is adequate reason. And “Mum will be mad” is not adequate reason.

    This isn’t cheating on a test at school. It’s not shoplifting a packet of chewing gum. Abortion is as serious as a heart attack.

  63. Scribe 64

    Anita,

    Women are giving consent, but I wouldn’t call it informed. All medication prescribed comes with a list of side effects; women getting abortions are given full and frank information about the impact of abortion.

    When he was Minister of Health, Bill English devised — with representatives from both sides of the fence — a booklet. Ministry officials basically refused to distribute, with the idea eventually being scrapped.

  64. Scribe 65

    Franks and his more senior National mates have a clear agenda of moving toward a more socially conservative New Zealand.

    But if they’re voted in, hasn’t the public given them a mandate to do so?

    I’m sceptical that they would have the numbers to bring about any real change in terms of social issues. There are social conservatives in National, but not enough to change things like abortion.

  65. Pascal's bookie 66

    Thanks for your reply scribe.

    “And “Mum will be mad’ is not adequate reason.”

    How about, “Mum and dad will be real mad, girl might well get a beating, be removed from school and forced to carry the pregnancy against her will”

    How rare do you think that situation would be across many different cultural groups?

    I don’t know, but I’d say it would be a sizable percentage of the few abortions that are performed under the circumstances you are concerned about.

  66. Lew 67

    Scribe: It’s not necessary that you consider it to be informed. What’s necessary is that the clinicians in charge consider it to be informed. It comes back to the central question I asked (and which was never answered) in the original epic-length abortion thread: who is more qualified to oversee the process of abortion than clinicians vetted by and affiliated with of the Royal Australia and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists? In specialised situations like this we (as a society) delegate discretion to recognised experts such as these. If you can satisfy me that there’s anyone better-qualified, I’ll back them. Until then, I’ll be taking their medical expertise over your religious beliefs any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

    L

  67. Lew 68

    Scribe: “But if [National]’re voted in, hasn’t the public given them a mandate to [implement a more conservative social agenda]?”

    Yes, on the assumption that they’re reasonably transparent about their intentions. At present there’s tension within the National party on this one.

    L

  68. Scribe 69

    Lew,

    My religious beliefs agree with my pro-life stance, but as I’ve said before, one needn’t be religious to be opposed to abortion.

    It comes back to the central question I asked (and which was never answered) in the original epic-length abortion thread: who is more qualified to oversee the process of abortion than clinicians vetted by and affiliated with of the Royal Australia and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists?

    The RANZCOG usually follows the lead of their British counterparts. I hope they do so on the topic of the mental health impact of abortions, because in the UK they are now requiring that women be warned of the mental health risks associated with abortion.

  69. Scribe 70

    Pb,

    How rare do you think that situation would be across many different cultural groups?

    I don’t know, but I’d say it would be a sizable percentage of the few abortions that are performed under the circumstances you are concerned about.

    I don’t know either, so won’t hazard a guess. I think parents who would beat their teenage daughter are pretty unlikely to take her out of school and force her to carry on with the pregnancy. Those two responses seem incompatible to me.

  70. Pascal's bookie 71

    Those two responses seem incompatible to me.

    Why?

    I don’t know either, so won’t hazard a guess.

    You don’t have to. The question was whether where such an outcome was considered likely, should the parents be informed.

  71. Scribe 72

    Pb,

    Beating a teenage girl yet wanting her to choose to have the child rather than abort it seems incompatible to me. Violence begets violence.

    And don’t try the “anti-abortion folks want to be allowed to beat their children” line. First of all, smacking a three-year-old is different from beating a 14-year-old girl. Not to mention the fact the people who opposed the repeal of section 59 don’t beat their children.

    Parents who truly beat their children usually can’t even count to 59.

  72. Anita 73

    Scribe,

    Parents who truly beat their children usually can’t even count to 59.

    Best line so far this week IMHO 🙂

  73. Pascal's bookie 74

    Don’t put words in my mouth Scribe. It’s got nothing to do with s59. Stop avoiding the question.

    I don’t care if it seems incompatible to you. People do things all the time that are incompatible with their asserted convictions. Pro lifers sometimes get abortions, and people who believe that God is merciful and just fly planes into buildings.

    I know you don’t understand why they do these things, but they do. They are people Scribe, and that’s people for you.

    But never mind that, really never mind it, just address this:

    “And “Mum will be mad’ is not adequate reason.’

    How about, “Mum and dad will be real mad, girl might well get a beating, be removed from school and forced to carry the pregnancy against her will’

    I’ll even drop the beating bit seeing it’s confusing you so much. Would that be adequate reason to not inform / seek parental consent?

    And cut the ‘wanting her to choose’ framing. The question is about not allowing her to choose. This may be done via beatings, sending her away to an ‘aunties’ place for a while, threatening her with hell and damnation, disowning her etc and so on. All the while pileing on the guilt and blame and throwing around muderer talk.

    Don’t try and pretend that this sort of thing would never happen when strict prolifers are trying to prevent a ‘murder’ in their family Scribe.

  74. Scribe 75

    Pb,

    I’m not trying to avoid the question — honest.

    I think parents are entitled to make decisions for daughters aged 15 or younger, especially decisions with major implications like abortion. This isn’t like picking an outfit for school.

    Sorry, I just don’t believe 11-, 12-, 13-, 14- and 15-year-old girls are able to make a decision like this by themselves. Maybe there can be provisions for trusted adults (family friends etc) to be consulted rather than the parents, but as more and more studies point to the ongoing implication of abortion, to allow someone so young to make the decision themselves seems irresponsible.

    Anita,

    Glad you liked it 😉 Not sure if it’s an original line. I don’t recall ever hearing it and I’d never thought of it before. Just came to me.

  75. Pascal's bookie 76

    Thanks Scribe.

    I apologise if it seems like I’m trying to play gotcha, I’m just trying to work out where you stand, policy wise.

    I think parents are entitled to make decisions for daughters aged 15 or younger, especially decisions with major implications like abortion.

    Crystal clear.

  76. Scribe 77

    Pb,

    Now that I’ve “finished my homework”, do you think there are any decisions a 13-year-old girl should have to run past her parents?

    At what age do children free themselves from the shackles of their parents and become free to do whatever they like?

  77. “Sorry, I just don’t believe 11-, 12-, 13-, 14- and 15-year-old girls are able to make a decision like this by themselves.”

    Personally I think your underestimating them.

    And yes beating your pregnant daughter then forcing her to keep the baby go hand in hand. They are both ways for an unstable parent to release anger and punish their daughter. Any harm or defect caused to the baby is a punishment from god for the mothers sinning.

  78. Pascal's bookie 79

    Of course there are Scribe. But I’m not an absolutist about things. I think the present system is about right.

    I think abrtion has it’s own problems. It’s a special case. Many parents will be bringing all sorts of crazy baggage to the situation. Like you say, it’s not like getting a tooth filled. The consequences, no matter the decision, are large, and at the end of the day are the result of the young womans choices. (assuming consensual sex)

    I don’t think that parents should be allowed to force a girl to carry a pregnancy she does not want, or to abort one against her will.

  79. Matt 80

    This is a totally dishonest portrayal of an equally dishonest YouTube clip.

    The real story is here: Fisking Grant Robertson.

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  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 6:30 am on Thursday, July 18 are:News: Christchurch's sewer systems block further housing developments RNZ’s Niva ChittockAnalysis: Interislander: Treasury, MoT officials' mistrust of KiwiRail led ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Thursday, July 18

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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The politics of managed retreat

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    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Some changes are coming

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  • About fucking time

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    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: False accounting and wishful thinking

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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The Enemies Of Sunshine And Space.

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    6 days ago
  • Still the 5 Eyes Achilles Heel?

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    6 days ago
  • Britain's Devastating Electoral Slip.

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  • Gordon Campbell on why right wingers think all governments (including their own) are incompetent

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    6 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Wednesday, July 17

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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Open Letter to Pharmac

    All this talk of getting oldIt's getting me down, my loveLike a cat in a bag, waiting to drownThis time I'm coming downAnd I hope you're thinking of meAs you lay down on your sideNow the drugs don't workThey just make you worse but I know I'll see your face ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • A blanket of misinformation

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    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day to 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 17 are:Scoop: Government considers rolling back home insulation standards RNZ’s Eloise GibsonNews: Government plans tree-planting frenzy as report shows NZ no longer ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Wednesday, July 17 , the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:Simon Watts released the Government’s draft Emissions Reduction Plan (ERP), which included proposed changes to the Emissions Trading Scheme ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • “Shhhh” – National's 3 Waters is loaded with higher costs and lays a path to ...

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    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    7 days ago
  • Plugging a video channel: Dr Gilbz

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    7 days ago
  • Some “scrutiny” again

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    7 days ago
  • Crashing New Zealand's health system is not the way to prosperity, Prime Minister

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    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    7 days ago
  • Closer Than You Think: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.

    Redefining Our Terms: “When an angry majority is demanding change, defending the status-quo is an extremist position.”“WHAT’S THIS?”, asked Laurie, eyeing suspiciously the two glasses of red wine deposited in front of him.“A nice drop of red. I thought you’d be keen to celebrate the French Far-Right’s victory with the ...
    1 week ago
  • Come on Darleen.

    Good morning all, time for a return to things domestic. After elections in the UK and France, Luxon gatecrashing Nato, and the attempted shooting of Trump, it’s probably about time we re-focus on local politics.Unless of course you’re Christopher Luxon and you’re so exhausted from all your schmoozing in Washington ...
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    1 week ago
  • How the Northwest was lost and may be won

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    1 week ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Tuesday July 16

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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Tuesday, July 16

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 16 are:PM Christopher Luxon has given a very hawkish interview to the Financial Times-$$$ correspondent in Washington, Demetri Sevastopulu, saying ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Tuesday, July 16

    Photo by Ryunosuke Kikuno on UnsplashTL;DR: The top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day to 6:00 am are:BNZ released its Performance of Services Index for June, finding that services sector is at its lowest level of activity ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The second crisis; assumption was the mother

    Late on the night of July 16, 1984, while four National Cabinet Ministers were meeting in the Beehive office of Deputy Prime Minister Jim McLay, plotting the ultimate downfall of outgoing Prime Minister Sir Robert Muldoon, another crisis was building up in another part of the capital. The United States ...
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    1 week ago
  • Can we air condition our way out of extreme heat?

    This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler Air conditioning was initially a symbol of comfort and wealth, enjoyed by the wealthy in theaters and upscale homes. Over time, as technology advanced and costs decreased, air conditioning became more accessible to the general public. With global warming, though, ...
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  • Review: The Zimiamvian Trilogy, by E.R. Eddison (1935-1958)

    I have reviewed some fairly obscure stuff on this blog. Nineteenth century New Zealand speculative fiction. Forgotten Tolkien adaptations. George MacDonald and William Morris. Last month I took a look at The Worm Ouroboros (1922), by E.R. Eddison, which while not strictly obscure, is also not overly inviting to many ...
    1 week ago
  • Media Link: AVFA on the Trump assassination attempt.

    In this episode of “A View from Afar” Selwyn Manning and I discuss the attempt on Donald Trump’s life and its implications for the US elections. The political darkness grows. ...
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    1 week ago

  • Sir Don to travel to Viet Nam as special envoy

    Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced.    “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
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    1 hour ago
  • Grant Illingworth KC appointed as transitional Commissioner to Royal Commission

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024.  “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
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    2 hours ago
  • NZ to advance relationships with ASEAN partners

    Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane.    “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says.   “This will be our third visit to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • Backing mental health services on the West Coast

    Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
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    3 hours ago
  • NZ support for sustainable Pacific fisheries

    New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Students’ needs at centre of new charter school adjustments

    Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
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    3 hours ago
  • Commissioner replaces Health NZ Board

    In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today.  “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
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    23 hours ago
  • Minister to speak at Australian Space Forum

    Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum.  While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation.  “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
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    1 day ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend climate action meeting in China

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan.  “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
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    1 day ago
  • Oceans and Fisheries Minister to Solomons

    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government launches Military Style Academy Pilot

    The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Nine priority bridge replacements to get underway

    The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Update on global IT outage

    Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand, Japan renew Pacific partnership

    New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says.    “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
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    4 days ago
  • New infrastructure energises BOP forestry towns

    New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 'Pacific Futures'

    President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests.    Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone.    Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Delivering 24 hour pothole repairs

    Kiwis and freight operators will benefit from the Coalition Government delivering on its commitment to introduce targets that will ensure a greater number of potholes on our state highways are identified and fixed within 24 hours, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is a key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Peer Support Specialists rolled out in hospitals

    Five hospitals have been selected to trial a new mental health and addiction peer support service in their emergency departments as part of the Government’s commitment to increase access to mental health and addiction support for New Zealanders, says Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey.  “Peer Support Specialists in EDs will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Consultation opens for the Emissions Reduction Plan

    The Government’s draft Emissions Reduction Plan shows we can stay within the limits of the first two emissions budgets while growing the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “This draft Emissions Reduction Plan shows that with effective climate change policies we can both grow the economy and deliver our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Benefit stats highlight need for welfare reset

    The coalition Government is providing extra support for job seekers to ensure as many Kiwis as possible are in work or preparing for work, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “While today’s quarterly data showing a rise in the number of people on Jobseeker benefits has been long ...
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    5 days ago
  • School attendance continues to increase

    Provisional school attendance data for Term 2 2024 released today has shown more students are back in class compared to last year, with 53.1 per cent of students regularly attending, compared with 47 per cent in Term 2 2023, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. “The Government has prioritised student ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • $22.7m of West Coast resilience projects underway

    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news of progress being made by the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) on the first of several crucial resilience projects underway on the South Island’s West Coast.“State highways across the West Coast are critical lifelines for communities throughout the region, including for freight and tourism. ...
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    5 days ago
  • Migrant school leavers to get part-time work rights

    The coalition Government is providing migrant school leavers with greater opportunities, by increasing access to part-time work rights for those awaiting the outcome of a family residence application, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford has announced.  “Many young people who are part of a family residence application process are unable to work. ...
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    6 days ago
  • Funding to support use of NZ Sign Language

    Seven projects have received government funding totalling nearly $250,000 to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). Initiatives that received an NZSL Board Community Grants this year include camps that support the use of NZSL through physical and sensory activities, and clubs where Deaf people and ...
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    6 days ago
  • Inflation data shows progress in economic recovery

    Today’s Consumer Price Index data which has inflation at 3.3 per cent for the year to July 2024, shows we are turning our economy around and winning the fight against rampant inflation, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  “While today’s data will be welcome news for Kiwis, I know many New ...
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    6 days ago
  • Experts to advise Minister on Oranga Tamariki

    The Oranga Tamariki Ministerial Advisory Board has been re-established by the Minister for Children, Karen Chhour. “I look forward to working with the new board to continue to ensure Oranga Tamariki and the care and protection system, are entirely child centric,” Minister Chhour says. “The board will provide independent advice ...
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    7 days ago
  • Expectations set for improved medicines access

    Associate Health Minister David Seymour says he has set clear expectations for Pharmac around delivering the medicines and medical technology that Kiwis need.  “For many New Zealanders, funding for pharmaceuticals is life or death, or the difference between a life of pain and suffering or living freely. New cancer medicines ...
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    7 days ago
  • Regional Development Minister to host summits

    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones will hold a series of nationwide summits to discuss regional priorities, aspirations and opportunities, with the first kicking off in Nelson on August 12. The 15 summits will facilitate conversations about progressing regional economic growth and opportunities to drive productivity, prosperity and resilience through the ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government delivers new school for Rolleston

    The Coalition Government is addressing growing demands on Canterbury’s school network, by delivering a new primary school in Rolleston, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. Within Budget 24’s $400 million investment into school property growth, construction will begin on a new primary school (years 1-8) in Selwyn, Canterbury.  Rolleston South Primary ...
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    1 week ago
  • New speed camera signs to improve safety

    The Government is welcoming the rollout of new speed camera signs for fixed speed cameras to encourage drivers to check their speeds, improving road safety and avoiding costly speeding tickets, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Providing Kiwis with an opportunity to check their speed and slow down in high crash areas ...
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    1 week ago
  • NZ, Korea strengthen relationship

    New Zealand and the Republic of Korea continue to strengthen their relationship, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “New Zealand and Korea have a long history – from New Zealand soldiers fighting in the Korean War, through to our strong cooperation today as partners supporting the international rules-based order.    ...
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    1 week ago
  • Investing for future growth in tourism and hospitality

    The Government is moving forward with recommendations from the Tourism Data Leadership Group, beginning with establishing a Tourism Data Partnership Fund says Tourism and Hospitality Minister Matt Doocey. “The Tourism Data Partnership Fund is funded through the International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy (IVL) and will provide up to $400,000 ...
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    1 week ago
  • 4000 more job seekers to get case managers

    A new over-the-phone employment case management service will see thousands more job seekers under the age of 25 supported to find work, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston has announced. “MSD case managers provide valuable support to help people into work, but less than a third of those receiving ...
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    1 week ago
  • Trade Minister to attend G7 meeting in Italy

    Trade Minister Todd McClay will attend the Group of Seven (G7) Trade Ministers meeting in Reggio Calabria, Italy next week. This is the first time New Zealand has been invited to join the event, which will be attended by some of the world’s largest economies and many of New Zealand’s ...
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    1 week ago
  • Ministers reveal consequences for unruly Kāinga Ora tenants

    Ministers are pleased to see Kāinga Ora taking a stronger approach to managing unruly, threatening or abusive tenants, Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka say.    “For far too long, a small number of Kāinga Ora tenants have ridden roughshod over their neighbours because, under Kāinga ...
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    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister wraps up US visit in California

    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has finished a successful four-day visit to the United States with meetings in California on his final day focusing on innovation and investment.  “It has been fantastic to be in San Francisco today seeing first-hand the deepening links between New Zealand and California. “New Zealand company, EV Maritime, ...
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    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister leads Indo-Pacific Four at NATO

    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today chaired a meeting of the Indo-Pacific Four (IP4) countries – Australia, Japan, the Republic of Korea and New Zealand. The IP4 met in the context of NATO’s Summit in Washington DC hosted by President Biden. “Prosperity is only possible with security,” Mr Luxon says. “We need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • District Court judges appointed

    Attorney-General Hon Judith Collins today announced the appointment of three new District Court Judges.   The appointees, who will take up their roles in July and August at the Manukau, Rotorua and Invercargill courts, are:   Matthew Nathan Judge Nathan was admitted to bar in New Zealand in 2021, having previously been ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Urgent review into Wairoa flood response begins

    Environment Minister, Penny Simmonds today announced the terms of reference for a rapid review into the Wairoa flood response. “The Wairoa community has raised significant concerns about the management of the Wairoa River bar and the impact this had on flooding of properties in the district,” says Ms Simmonds. “The Government ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • NZDF’s Red Sea deployment extended

    New Zealand has extended its contribution to the US-led coalition working to uphold maritime security in the Red Sea, Defence Minister Judith Collins and Foreign Minister Winston Peters announced today. “The decision to extend this deployment is reflective of the continued need to partner and act in line with New ...
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