It seems like an audience hostile to Franks, yet he said things that were going to be grossly unpopular. If nothing else, Franks has got cajones.
If it was a Labour gathering or a GLBT meeting, he’s a gutsy character. Looking from the other side of the coin, would an outspoken gay rights activist go into a Destiny church and call them all intolerant bigots?
I also think it’s disingenuous to show John Key with the quote superimposed over him. Would you think it OK for National to do the same to Helen Clark for quotes from people way down their party list?
With all that diversity talk National made recently note that they didn’t trumpet their gay candidate Chris Findlayson…who would have made a far better candidate in Wellington Central than Franks.
No Scribe, most gay rights activists would choose their battles a bit more sensibly. So while Franks might have cajones (and yes, let’s cheer the bravery it takes to be intolerant!) he doesn’t have common sense.
for the record, it’s spelled cojones but in any case, I don’t think they’re what NZ politics is lacking at present. There’s no shortage of opinionated bigots, either; I’d say that as a group they are over-represented in parliament.
Monkey-Boy ‘Is he not allowed to have a view on civil unions then?’
Sure he is, and people are also allowed not to vote for him.
He’s a great ad for the National Party, old fashioned, narrow minded and best of all not scared to say what he thinks, unless that is he was getting ‘too excited’ or ‘mis-spoke’.
He’s #60 on the party list. Maybe we can peruse the Internet for interesting quotes from #60 on Labour’s list when it’s announced (assuming they even bother listing that many)
An excellent guy – he is extremely well regarded and will make an excellent MP when he wins Wellington Central on 18 October 2008. Of course we don’t know the context (but that never matters to you guys – I go to church with a few grumpy Catholics – I am pround to be one myself – and of course we are grumpy we have had to put up with Labour and their corrupt poodle for niin long years. (only a few more weeks to go.
On the other hand – well gays may whine – but i suggest that it is because their dear leader is about to be evicted from office – so when broken down (no doubt right out of context- I think Stephen Franks is right on the money
Of course he can have opinions! We all can. My opinion is that Stephen Franks should be banned from procreating in the interests of not raising intolerant children. And because he’s creepy looking.
Scribe why don’t you do that for all of Labour’s #60 list candidates ever and get back to us. Sounds like a fascinating research project and I’m quite sure you’ll make an excellent job of it.
“Clark appointed Peters foreign minister in 2005 in return for support of her Labour Party minority government.
The pressure to suspend him comes at a bad time for Clark’s government, which needs the support of New Zealand First for legislation it wants to pass before voters go to the polls.
Peters has been a controversial figure in the government for his outspoken attacks on Asian immigration before becoming foreign minister and for his confrontational style with the media.”
Are you aware the Helen Clark supports Winston Peters ?
Why shouldn’t she be associated with his outspoken attacks on Asian immigration ?
I pointed out that, like Franks, Key voted against the Civil Unions Bill. Key leads the party for which Franks is a candidate and has not criticised Franks attitude toward homosexuality and civil unions.
Any chance of an example which bears some similarities to my point?
But, to be clear, if Clark and a Labour MP voted the same way on a conscience vote – yes I think it is reasonable to associate her with what that MP says unless she has overtly distanced herself from it.
I was suggesting that you were drawing along bow to suggest that Key shares Franks attitudes towards homosexuality and civil unions.
I wouldn’t expect he even knows what Franks attitudes are nor really do we from this video – it would be analagous to taking video of Cullen’s Rich Prick outburst in the house and concluding that he detests anyone with money.
Are you aware the Helen Clark supports Winston Peters ?
Why shouldn’t she be associated with his outspoken attacks on Asian immigration ?
No – as a minority party, NZF supports NZLP rather than the other way around. She does support him in the matters associated with his portfolio.
No – if you look at the details of the coalition agreement from 2005 (I’m short of time so haven’t looked up the link). NZF and Peters have freedom to speak on matters outside of his portfolio area(s) without being constrained by cabinet collective responsibility. That was put in to allow Winston to talk about matters like immigration without having Labour associated with them (or vice versa).
Boy some people (like JK) are desperate to try to associate HC with WP – such a pity that these inconvenient facts get in the way.
So this would be an example of Franks’ alleged top notch thinking skillz then?
From what he says in the clip, one of his objections to the CUB was that it was somehow analogous to allowing him to marry his dog. Or that if the bill passed then there could be no objection to his doing so. ok.
Perhaps Scribe or Monty or HS could save the conservative side of the debate from epic embarrassment and point out what is missing from Fwanksie’s widdle analysis.
Oooh – if you’re going to do that you could also ask him why he tried to change the Human Rights Act to explicitly make discrimination against homosexuals legal!
Because I was asking you HS. Do you know what the great big problem is with his argument?
I don’t really give a shit what Franks would say. He made that argument, either as a pander to fundies or because he thinks it is a good argument. In either case, that tells me all I need to know about Mr Franks. No further information from him is required as far as I’m concerned.
I am interested in how widespread his misunderstandings are, so that’s why I asked some conservatives that hang around here.
Can you help me out, or would you just like me to to tell you what is so obviously retarded about Mr Franks stupid argument? But surely you know why bestiality is not comparable to homosexuality?
I think the whole debate about sexuality is a subject that has no place in politics. Dividing society on “they are not tolerant to my views on sexuality” or “I’m not tolerant to their views on sexuality” on highly emotive issues is the lowest form of political manipulation.
If you really want to root out the true sexual weirdos then remember (in the context of consenting adults) the only true deviancy is abstinence.
The problem is that parliament passes legislation which controls how we express out sexuality. When politicians are looking to legislate our private lives their attitudes become really significant.
Burt, Did you mean “If you really want to root out the true sexual weirdos then remember (in the context of consenting adults) the only true deviancy is enforced abstinence.”?
ie priests, prisons, children of christians/moslems doing it because it is expected of them rather than a commitment they have have made on their own volition?
Hey monty – I would almost consider betting a grand on Franks not winning in central. I reckon TAB would put at higher odds than Samoa 13+ NZ this wednesday.
The problem is that parliament passes legislation which controls how we express out sexuality.
Well they shouldn’t. It’s as simple as that. The likes of the civil union bill is a start and adding in rights for Polyamory although contentious is something that should never have been excluded in the first place. When the state seeks to control how we form intimate/loving/parenting relationships with other adults it has gone to far.
When politicians are looking to legislate our private lives their attitudes become really significant.
Indeed, we do need to know that these people have a social engineering or control agenda beyond law and order.
Kevyn Miller
ie priests, prisons, children of christians/moslems doing it because it is expected of them rather than a commitment they have have made on their own volition?
Well yes and no… I agree that doing it because it’s required is a bit weird, what sort of religion would seek to suppress one of human natures most basic desires? A bit like govts I suppose the answer to that is one that wants to control how people live their lives for their own agenda.
However I personally think that the concept of voluntary abstinence is pretty weird. I can easily understand how people don’t want the complications of relationships and the expectations such as monogamy that may come with them – but total abstention is something I can’t understand. That’s not to say it’s wrong – but imagine if I were a control freak politician and I legislated that people must have sex at least once every 6 months because I don’t understand abstinence. As weird as that sounds it is actually no more over the top than people saying a civil union must only be between two adults.
burt said: I can easily understand how people don’t want the complications of relationships and the expectations such as monogamy that may come with them – but total abstention is something I can’t understand.
Ever heard of masturbation burt? Many people choose to masturbate for their sexual satisfaction rather than have a sequence of emotionally meaningless sexual liaisons (or one long-term emotionally meaningless one for that matter).
I wouldn’t count a person who isn’t actively in meaningless relationships but masturbates as being a person who is abstaining from sex. They are clearly abstaining from relationships but not from sex.
Various religions might seek to make a person in this situation feel guilty of being ‘immoral’ or ‘wrong’ but I wouldn’t pass such judgment. If you are describing yourself or a friend of yours then good on you – knock yourself out. 🙂
People, I know that the topic leads to it a bit. But I’ll start using a sock (with a brick in it) here shortly if the abuse level rises further.
I might add that this is the sock I’ve had on while traipsing around a hill farm today. It is also the sock that made my girlfriend start talking about deal-breakers when she accidentally leaned over it after I’d pulled the disgustingly muddy and smelling thing off.
Hell I’m afraid of this sock – where are the tweezers and the washing machine. Let me tell you that it was a bit wet and cold on the hills north of Auckland today. Damn the forecasters – they promised scattered showers.
Oh well the sock is less dirty than the original topic of this thread.
I’d have taken the tramping boots if the forecast had been for “bloody freezing rain coming down continuously and sideways due to a stiff wind”. But it was for scattered showers, which means to me that most of the time it will not be what I accurately described it as.
BTW: The current fashion for women appears to be for high boots. But personally I wouldn’t suggest wearing those out of slippery wet paddocks either. However using them on other slippery things, preferably with extremely sharp toes to pin down a straight policy answer…
what an advert for National – let me see…jumped ship from ACT and now trying to reinvent himself ..drives around Wellington in a mustard 60’s retro VW!!! How very national…still, he can’t hide (get it) the narrow minded intolerent right wing ideology no matter the change in wheels.
Scribe, Franks was making those same arguments back when the bill was passed.
How about you, what do you think of Franks argument that allowing Civil Unions means we should let him marry his dog in order to be consistent?
Personally I think it’s a retarded argument that completely misses the point.
I also think that Franks knows this and is just cynically pandering to Christian conservatives. If I was a Christian conservative that would piss me right off, because it would mean he thinks I am the type to be convinced by retarded arguments.
How about you, do you find the argument to be retarded or do you think it makes sense, relationship wise?
Franks’ argument is silly, in fact so silly it’s strange that intelligent people like you are taking it seriously and asking questions like this.
I think Franks genuinely believes, as I did, that allowing civil unions had the potential to open up a can of worms on the recognition of relationships in the future. Hence the concern some people had when Dyson talked — or didn’t talk — about singles, couples and triples.
I would consider myself a Christian conservative — most here would call me a ragin’ fundamentalist — and the comments don’t “piss me right off”. Again, most people realise his comments were taking legitimate concerns to an intentionally ridiculous conclusion.
But I don’t take his slippery slope argument seriously scribe. That’s why I called it retarded a few times, and suggested that Franks wasn’t being serious himself in making it.
What legitimate concerns? Box turtles? Kitchen chairs perhaps? The point is about consent scribe. A dog can’t get married. Nor can a child or a box turtle or a kitchen chair. None of these can give informed consent to the relationship, and that’s why such fears are under no threat from Civil Unions. That is what makes Franks argument retarded, and it is why his reductio misses the point.
I think I understand that you are a big fan of social engineering, (that you think the govt should restrict how adults should are able to arrange their affairs for the betterment of society), but Franks’ argument isn’t just silly, it misses the point entirely.
scribe. when you say ‘engage in polgamy’ do you mean have a multi-member relationship or have that relationship legally rrecognised? by using ‘engage in’ I assume you mean the former, and that is already legal. There is no legal restriction on the arrangement of relationships or the number of people participating in one – however, legal recognition is limited to couples.
Polygamy tends to be the domain of heterosexual religious types – sort of ironic that now we gays are getting lumped in with them as well! Want to blame us for overpopulation as well?
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Political parties that want to negotiate with the Green Party after the election must come to the table with much faster, bolder climate action, co-leaders James Shaw and Marama Davidson emphasised today. ...
You will never truly understand, from the pictures you’ve seen in the newspapers or on the six o-clock news, the sheer scale of the devastation wrought by Cyclone Gabrielle. ...
We’re boosting incomes and helping ease cost of living pressures on Kiwis through a range of bread and butter support measures that will see pensioners, students, families, and those on main benefits better off from the start of next month. ...
The error Labour Ministers made by stopping work on a beverage container return scheme will be reversed by the Greens at the earliest opportunity as part of the next Government. ...
“Cabinet needs to do better - and today has shown exactly why we need Green Ministers in cabinet, so we can prioritise action to cut climate pollution and support people to make ends meet,” says Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson. ...
Biggest increase in food prices for over three decades shows the need for an excess profit tax on corporations to help people put food on the table. ...
The Green Party has today launched a submission guide to help Aucklanders give crucial input and prevent potentially disastrous Auckland Council budget proposals. ...
With calls growing for inquiries and action on bank profits, the Greens say the Government has all the information it needs to act now and put a levy on banks. ...
As large parts of Aotearoa recover from two of the worst climate disasters we have ever experienced, it would be a huge mistake for the Government to deprioritise climate action from future transport investments, the Green Party says. ...
The Green Party is celebrating the signing of a historic United Nations Ocean Treaty, and calls on the new Oceans and Fisheries Minister to urgently step up protection for Aotearoa’s oceans. ...
This year has seen a series of extreme weather events, unparalleled in New Zealand’s recent history. From Cape Reinga in the far north down to the Tararua Ranges, families and businesses across the country have suffered enormous loss and hardship. While the severe weather hasn’t directly affected every part of ...
Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment Priyanca Radhakrishnan has today launched the Love Better campaign in a world-leading approach to family harm prevention. Love Better will initially support young people through their experience of break-ups, developing positive and life-long attitudes to dealing with hurt. “Over 1,200 young kiwis told ...
Hon Rino Tirikatene, Minister for Courts, welcomes the Ministry of Justice’s appointment of Dr Garry Clearwater as New Zealand’s first Chief Clinical Advisor working with the Coroners Court. “This appointment is significant for the Coroners Court and New Zealand’s wider coronial system.” Minister Tirikatene said. Through Budget 2022, the Government ...
The Government via the Cyclone Taskforce is working with local government and insurance companies to build a picture of high-risk areas following Cyclone Gabrielle and January floods. “The Taskforce, led by Sir Brian Roche, has been working with insurance companies to undertake an assessment of high-risk areas so we can ...
E te huia kaimanawa, ko Ngāpuhi e whakahari ana i tau aupikinga ki te tihi o te maunga. Ko te Ao Māori hoki e whakanui ana i a koe te whakaihu waka o te reo Māori i roto i te Ao Ture. (To the prized treasure, it is Ngāpuhi who ...
113,400 exits into work in the year to June 2022 Young people are moving off Benefit faster than after the Global Financial Crisis Two reports released today by the Ministry of Social Development show the Government’s investment in the COVID-19 response helped drive record numbers of people off Benefits and ...
The Government’s priority to keep New Zealand at the cutting edge of food production and lift our sustainability credentials continues by backing the next steps of a hi-tech vertical farming venture that uses up to 95 per cent less water, is climate resilient, and pesticide-free. Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor visited ...
E nga mana, e nga iwi, e nga reo, e nga hau e wha, tena koutou, tena koutou, tena koutou kātoa. Warm Pacific greetings to all. It is an honour to host the inaugural Conference of Pacific Education Ministers here in Tāmaki Makaurau. Aotearoa is delighted to be hosting you ...
The new renal unit at Taranaki Base Hospital has been officially opened by the Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall this afternoon. Te Huhi Raupō received around $13 million in government funding as part of Project Maunga Stage 2, the redevelopment of the Taranaki Base Hospital campus. “It’s an honour ...
Defence Minister Andrew Little has marked the arrival of the country’s second P-8A Poseidon aircraft alongside personnel at the Royal New Zealand Air Force’s Base at Ohakea today. “With two of the four P-8A Poseidons now on home soil this marks another significant milestone in the Government’s historic investment in ...
Aotearoa New Zealand will provide further humanitarian support to those seriously affected by last month’s deadly earthquakes in Türkiye and Syria, says Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta. “The 6 February earthquakes have had devastating consequences, with almost 18 million people affected. More than 53,000 people have died and tens of thousands more ...
Migrant communities across New Zealand are represented in the new Migrant Community Reference Group that will help shape immigration policy going forward, Immigration Minister Michael Wood announced today. “Since becoming Minister, a reoccurring message I have heard from migrants is the feeling their voice has often been missing around policy ...
Construction has begun on major works that will deliver significant safety improvements on State Highway 3 from Waitara to Bell Block, Associate Minister of Transport Kiri Allan announced today. “This is an important route for communities, freight and visitors to Taranaki but too many people have lost their lives or ...
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has today appointed Ginny Andersen as Minister of Police. “Ginny Andersen has a strong and relevant background in this important portfolio,” Chris Hipkins said. “Ginny Andersen worked for the Police as a non-sworn staff member for around 10 years and has more recently been chair of ...
Six further bailey bridge sites confirmed Four additional bridge sites under consideration 91 per cent of damaged state highways reopened Recovery Dashboards for impacted regions released The Government has responded quickly to restore lifeline routes after Cyclone Gabrielle and can today confirm that an additional six bailey bridges will ...
Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta departs for China tomorrow, where she will meet with her counterpart, State Councillor and Foreign Minister Qin Gang, in Beijing. This will be the first visit by a New Zealand Minister to China since 2019, and follows the easing of COVID-19 travel restrictions between New Zealand and China. ...
Education Ministers from across the Pacific will gather in Tāmaki Makaurau this week to share their collective knowledge and strategic vision, for the benefit of ākonga across the region. New Zealand Education Minister Jan Tinetti will host the inaugural Conference of Pacific Education Ministers (CPEM) for three days from today, ...
A vital transport link for communities and local businesses has been restored following Cyclone Gabrielle with the reopening of State Highway 5 (SH5) between Napier and Taupō, Associate Minister of Transport Kiri Allan says. SH5 reopened to all traffic between 7am and 7pm from today, with closure points at SH2 (Kaimata ...
Internal Affairs Minister Barbara Edmonds has thanked generous New Zealanders who took part in the special Lotto draw for communities affected by Cyclone Gabrielle. Held on Saturday night, the draw raised $11.7 million with half of all ticket sales going towards recovery efforts. “In a time of need, New Zealanders ...
The Government has announced funding of $3 million for providers to help people, and whānau access community-based Building Financial Capability services. “Demand for Financial Capability Services is growing as people face cost of living pressures. Those pressures are increasing further in areas affected by flooding and Cyclone Gabrielle,” Minister for ...
Minister of Education, Hon Jan Tinetti, has announced appointments to the Board of Education New Zealand | Manapou ki te Ao. Tracey Bridges is joining the Board as the new Chair and Dr Therese Arseneau will be a new member. Current members Dr Linda Sissons CNZM and Daniel Wilson have ...
Fifteen ākonga Māori from across Aotearoa have been awarded the prestigious Ngarimu VC and 28th (Māori) Battalion Memorial Scholarships and Awards for 2023, Associate Education Minister and Ngarimu Board Chair, Kelvin Davis announced today. The recipients include doctoral, masters’ and undergraduate students. Three vocational training students and five wharekura students, ...
High Court Judge Jillian Maree Mallon has been appointed a Judge of the Court of Appeal, and District Court Judge Andrew John Becroft QSO has been appointed a Judge of the High Court, Attorney‑General David Parker announced today. Justice Mallon graduated from Otago University in 1988 with an LLB (Hons), and with ...
The economy has continued to show its resilience despite today’s GDP figures showing a modest decline in the December quarter, leaving the Government well positioned to help New Zealanders face cost of living pressures in a challenging global environment. “The economy had grown strongly in the two quarters before this ...
Aucklanders now have more ways to get around as Transport Minister Michael Wood opened the direct State Highway 1 (SH1) to State Highway 18 (SH18) underpass today, marking the completion of the 48-kilometre Western Ring Route (WRR). “The Government is upgrading New Zealand’s transport system to make it safer, more ...
This section contains briefings received by incoming ministers following changes to Cabinet in January. Some information may have been withheld in accordance with the Official Information Act 1982. Where information has been withheld that is indicated within the document. ...
Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta reaffirmed her commitment to working together with the new Government of Fiji on issues of shared importance, including on the prioritisation of climate change and sustainability, at a meeting today, in Nadi. Fiji and Aotearoa New Zealand’s close relationship is underpinned by the Duavata ...
The Government is delivering a coastal shipping lifeline for businesses, residents and the primary sector in the cyclone-stricken regions of Hawkes Bay and Tairāwhiti, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan announced today. The Rangitata vessel has been chartered for an emergency coastal shipping route between Gisborne and Napier, with potential for ...
The Government will progress to the next stage of the NZ Battery Project, looking at the viability of pumped hydro as well as an alternative, multi-technology approach as part of the Government’s long term-plan to build a resilient, affordable, secure and decarbonised energy system in New Zealand, Energy and Resources ...
This morning I was made aware of a media interview in which Minister Stuart Nash criticised a decision of the Court and said he had contacted the Police Commissioner to suggest the Police appeal the decision. The phone call took place in 2021 when he was not the Police Minister. ...
The Government’s sharp focus on trade continues with Aotearoa New Zealand set to host Trade Ministers and delegations from 10 Asia Pacific economies at a meeting of Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) Commission members in July, Minister for Trade and Export Growth Damien O’Connor announced today. “New Zealand ...
$25 million boost to support more businesses with clean-up in cyclone affected regions, taking total business support to more than $50 million Demand for grants has been strong, with estimates showing applications will exceed the initial $25 million business support package Grants of up to a maximum of $40,000 per ...
80 per cent of 2021 Resident Visas applications have been processed – three months ahead of schedule Residence granted to 160,000 people 84,000 of 85,000 applications have been approved Over 160,000 people have become New Zealand residents now that 80 per cent of 2021 Resident Visa (2021RV) applications have been ...
The Government continues to invest in New Zealand’s burgeoning space industry, today announcing five scholarships for Kiwi Students to undertake internships at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in California. Economic Development Minister Stuart Nash congratulated Michaela Dobson (University of Auckland), Leah Albrow (University of Canterbury) and Jack Naish, Celine Jane ...
The Lead Coordination Minister for the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission’s Report into the Terrorist Attack on the Christchurch Mosques travels to Melbourne, Australia today to represent New Zealand at the fourth Sub-Regional Meeting on Counter-Terrorism and Transnational Security. “The Government is committed to reducing the threat of terrorism ...
The health and safety practices at our nation’s ports will be improved as part of a new industry-wide action plan, Workplace Relations and Safety, and Transport Minister Michael Wood has announced. “Following the tragic death of two port workers in Auckland and Lyttelton last year, I asked the Port Health ...
Bikes, electric bikes and scooters will be added to the types of transport exempted from fringe benefit tax under changes proposed today. Revenue Minister David Parker said the change would allow bicycles, electric bicycles, scooters, electric scooters, and micro-mobility share services to be exempt from fringe benefit tax where they ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta will hold bilateral meetings with Fiji this week. The visit will be her first to the country since the election of the new coalition Government led by Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Sitiveni Rabuka. The visit will be an opportunity to meet kanohi ki ...
The Government is introducing the Severe Weather Emergency Legislation Bill to ensure the recovery and rebuild from Cyclone Gabrielle is streamlined and efficient with unnecessary red tape removed. The legislation is similar to legislation passed following the Christchurch and Kaikōura earthquakes that modifies existing legislation in order to remove constraints ...
Approximately 1.4 million people will benefit from increases to rates and thresholds for social assistance to help with the cost of living Superannuation to increase by over $100 a pay for a couple Main benefits to increase by the rate of inflation, meaning a family on a benefit with children ...
$1 billion in savings which will be reallocated to support New Zealanders with the cost of living A range of transport programmes deferred so Waka Kotahi can focus on post Cyclone road recovery Speed limit reduction programme significantly narrowed to focus on the most dangerous one per cent of state ...
A Pacific elder and former secretary-general of the Pacific Islands Forum says Pacific leaders need to sit up and pay closer attention to AUKUS and the Indo-Pacific strategy and China’s response to them. Speaking from Port Moresby in Papua New Guinea, Dame Meg Taylor said Pacific leaders were being sidelined ...
The government says it should have details on which weather-hit areas are high risk within three weeks, and can then make decisions about rebuilding. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Carly Tozer, Senior Research Scientist, CSIRO Dean Lewins/AAPLa Niña and El Niño are well-known terms in Australia these days. Linked to them are certain expectations: we expect wet conditions in La Niña and dry conditions in El Niño. These ...
Counter-protests are planned for this weekend as a controversial anti-trans campaigner speaks in two New Zealand cities. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull will be allowed into the country after Immigration NZ said the threshold to stop her had not been reached. In a tweet, Rainbow Greens, the group that released an open letter ...
We asked workers at some of our favourite food establishments to show us what they eat when the rush is over.This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter The Boil Up. Last week was Work Week on The Spinoff, dedicated to unpacking our relationship with the world ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards. Political Roundup: Who will drain Wellington’s lobbying swamp? Wealthy vested interests have an oversized influence on political decisions in New Zealand. Partly that’s due to their use of corporate lobbyists. Fortunately, the influence lobbyists can have on decisions made by politicians is currently under scrutiny in ...
65 percent of Kiwis surveyed admit they would have no idea what to do if their identity was stolen Norton, a leading consumer Cyber Safety brand of Gen, today announced the New Zealand launch of Norton™ 360 Platinum, which leverages the company's ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Claire Breen, Professor of Law, University of Waikato Getty Images There might have been pragmatic political reasons behind the government throwing voting-age legislation onto its recent policy bonfire, but it remains a sadly wasted opportunity. The announcement reversed former ...
ANALYSIS:By Bevin Veale, Massey University The impending arrival of Kelly-Jean Keen-Minshull — aka Posie Parker — has put the spotlight on the tension between free speech and protecting vulnerable communities in Aotearoa New Zealand. In particular, it raises questions about Immigration New Zealand’s role in limiting who can visit ...
Wairoa has ready-to-go projects that could be accelerated to quickly get people back into homes following Cyclone Gabrielle, Minister Willie Jackson was told on a visit to Wairoa today. Tātau Tātau o Te Wairoa is seeking a Government commitment ...
A new report published by the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union exposes the bad decision-making that led to a 61% cost blowout in Auckland’s City Rail Link and shows that the costs of the project now significantly outweigh any benefits. ‘The City Rail Link: ...
Immigration NZ has today confirmed that the controversial anti-trans campaigner Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull will be allowed into New Zealand for her speaking events this week. You can read our report here – and the full statement from Immigration NZ’s Richard Owen to the media is below: “I can confirm that ...
Immigration NZ says it knows some people will be unhappy, but ultimately the threshold to bar Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull from New Zealand hasn’t been reached.The British anti-transgender campaigner Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, also known as Posie Parker, will be allowed into New Zealand this weekend, Immigration NZ has confirmed.Keen-Minshull’s ability to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Stevens, Adjunct Associate Professor, University of Adelaide Antarctica is an icy place today, but the ice extended even further during past ice ages. The question of how and where life survived on land in the icy continent, through the ages, has ...
Like a Tongan Cool Runnings, with trumpets instead of bobsleds, Red, White & Brass is a feel-good movie based on an incredible true story. First-time film producer Halaifonua Finau tells Sela Jane Hopgood how he got it made.In 2016, promising new Tongan producer Halaifonua Finau was sitting in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ben Thomas Gleeson, Doctoral Candidate, Australian National University Luz Rovira / Flickr, CC BY-NC-ND In the 19th century, Charles Darwin was one of the first to notice something interesting about domesticated animals: different species often developed similar changes when compared ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katharine Kemp, Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Law & Justice, UNSW Sydney New research reveals serious privacy flaws in fertility apps used by Australian consumers – emphasising the need for urgent reform of the Privacy Act. Fertility apps provide a number ...
The Fiji Times “The University of the South Pacific (USP) has been and continues to be a bedrock for regionalism. A resource owned by the region; for the region and a precious institution that needs to be protected in line with the vision of our forebearers.” This was the message ...
By Claudia Tally in Port Moresby A Papua New Guinean family who have been renting a property from the National Housing Corporation for the past 46 years have been served with a 24-hour eviction notice by a different owner who had obtained an eviction notice from the Port Moresby District ...
Auckland mayor Wayne Brown’s plans to cut back on spending could see the council quit Local Government NZ, the group that represents councils across the country. Stuff’s Todd Niall has reported that $400,000 would be saved by the move, with mayor Brown reportedly wanting to direct that money into other ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Frederic Gachon, Associate Professor, Physiology of Circadian Rhythms, Institute for Molecular Bioscience, The University of Queensland Gregory Pappas/Unsplash Some of us love to be tucked up in bed by a particular time every night, ensuring a certain number of hours ...
The government has launched campaign to help young people navigate break-ups with the long-term aim of preventing family violence, believed to be the first of its kind. ...
Sports can be hugely beneficial for children but there are still many barriers for trans kids wanting to play, writes researcher Julia de Bres.There’s been a lot of talk recently about trans athletes in high performance sport, much of which derives from a broader anti-trans project rather than a ...
A new documentary follows Amber Clyde, skateboarder and founder of Girls Skate NZ, as she works to rebuild her confidence in the sport while juggling solo motherhood.Amber Clyde remembers being bullied as the only girl at the skate park in Birkenhead – but these days all the same bullies ...
After dedicating years to helping young women find their confidence in skateboarding, Amber Clyde must teach herself how to get back on the board after the birth of her second child. But balancing the realities of being a solo Mum with running her own business means that her time is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Arthur Immanuel Crichton, PhD candidate, Flinders University Relative of _Chunia pledgei_ named _Ektopodon serratus_ (top left), with _Wakaleo oldfieldi_.Reconstruction of the early Miocene Kutjumarpu faunal assemblage by Peter Schouten, CC BY-SA Imagine a vast, lush forest dominated by giant flightless birds ...
The Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance is urging its 27,000 members and subscribers to have a say on Auckland Council’s proposed 2022/23 annual budget. Last week, the Ratepayers’ Alliance launched a new website to encourage public feedback. Backtobasics.co.nz ...
New Zealand distance runner Zane Robertson has been banned from all sport for eight years due to doping. Robertson, who is the holder of six national distance running records and a Commonwealth Games bronze medal, was tested at the UK’s Great Manchester Run in May last year. His sample returned ...
Alex Casey asks a psychologist why she was too chicken shit to wear a mask during the flight that probably gave her Covid-19. In the live action replay in my head, I can basically see, frame by frame, the moment that one of those puny little Covid-19 Koosh balls did ...
Social services and health & disability provider Presbyterian Support Northern (PSN) has appointed Joe Waru as its new Kaitohu Matua (General Manager Māori). The appointment will provide PSN with strategic leadership and advice as it seeks to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kevin Veale, Lecturer in Media Studies, part of the Digital Cultures Laboratory in the School of Humanities, Media, and Creative Communication, Massey University Getty Images The impending arrival of Kelly-Jean Keen-Minshull – aka Posie Parker – has put the spotlight ...
Deputy Public Service Commissioner Ms Heather Baggott has today announced the appointment of Mr Andrew Hampton to the position of Director-General of Security and Chief Executive, New Zealand Security Intelligence Service (NZSIS). The role of the NZSIS is to understand ...
Money isn’t everything. But for most of us, it’s easier to deal with anything else in our lives if we know the bills are getting paid. So when household budgets come under pressure from cost of living increases – especially when that includes the mortgage that keeps a roof over ...
The National Party will announce the first part of its new education policy tomorrow in the prime minister’s own stomping ground of the Hutt. Leader Christopher Luxon said the “Teaching the Basics Brilliantly” policy will see the curriculum totally overhauled, with a direct focus on reading, writing, maths and science. ...
In conjunction with Curia Market Research, the Free Speech Union has distributed a survey on academic freedom to academics across each of the eight universities in New Zealand. Respect for academic freedom is a statutory responsibility for universities, ...
Thirty years ago, after a marathon Parliamentary sitting, the Bolger National government passed the Maritime Transport Act which deregulated coastal shipping by abolishing cabotage. Cabotage was the practice which restricted the operation of sea, air, or ...
New reports out from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) this morning show that in the year to June 2022, 113,400 people came off a benefit, the highest number since electronic records began in 1996. From early 2020, at the start of the pandemic, there was a large increase in the ...
A recent court action by Australia’s financial regulator suggests ‘greenwashing’ claims can expect far greater scrutiny – a situation likely to happen here soon enough, writes Steven Moe.Coal mining can seem like yesterday’s fuel – a relic of the last century, in the coming age of wind farms and ...
Grammy-winning pop star Lizzo will return to New Zealand in July for her first solo show on our shores. The singer, rapper and flautist (yes) will play Spark Arena on July 26 as part of her Special Tour. The last time she was in New Zealand, Lizzo was a festival ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Trevor Ireland, Professor, School of Earth and Environmental Sciences, The University of Queensland MASCOT / DLR / JAXA How did life come about? The answer to this question goes to the very heart of our existence on planet Earth. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Rudge, Law lecturer, University of Sydney Unsplash/Olga Guryanova, CC BY Disturbing reports about botched cosmetic surgeries and injuries in Australia – from breast augmentations causing chronic pain to liposuction leaving patients with lifelong injuries – have sparked concerns in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Philip Zylstra, Adjunct Associate Professor at Curtin University, Research Associate at University of New South Wales, Curtin University Shutterstock Fire management in Australia is approaching crisis point. Seasons such as the Black Summer three years ago showed how our best ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By William Geary, PhD Student, Deakin University Once abundant, woylies – or brush-tailed bettongs – are now critically endangered. John Gould, CC BY-SA Conserving native wildlife is a challenging task and Australia’s unenviable extinction record shows us we urgently need more sophisticated ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Pi-Shen Seet, Professor of Entrepreneurship and Innovation, Edith Cowan University ThisIsEngineering/Pexels , CC BY-NC Australia continues to grapple with acute skills shortages. Businesses are struggling to find workers with the skills they need. Meanwhile, workers struggle to get jobs because ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robin Eames, History PhD candidate, University of Sydney Portrait of De Lacy Evans and his wife (1870)State Library VictoriaThis article contains references to anti-trans, colonial and institutional violence, and includes information about an Aboriginal person who died in the early ...
The new police minister has defended the government’s approach to dealing with crime, as new figures show just 32% of charges laid against young people last year actually resulted in a sentence. Ginny Andersen was promoted into the police portfolio on Monday after Stuart Nash was sent falling to the ...
The final IPCC report was unequivocal in its call to reduce emissions immediately but the government has no further news on how agricultural emissions charging will work, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
The Greens say climate change will be integral to the big decision this year. Toby Manhire explores the data. Devastating, global-warming-exacerbatedstorms. A new IPCC report laying outthe calamitous fireball hurtling our way. And a prime minister jettisoninga host of climate-aligned policies. There is plenty of material for James ...
Medsafe has approved applications for Ozempic to be used in New Zealand. How does this new drug work and why is everyone talking about it? What just happened? Last Thursday, New Zealand’s medical regulatory body Medsafe gave consent for Ozempic to be prescribed in New Zealand. The approval is for ...
An author on the death of a baby and "a calm respectful grace" The normal world was out there. The clocks and the jobs and the traffic and the mortgages and the death. Especially the death. Death in suburbia means funerals with piped fake Celtic music despite the fact ...
One of New Zealand’s brightest young netball talents, Paris Lokotui has returned to the court 10 months after a knee reconstruction. Now she hopes her tough journey back paves a better way for other Māori and Pasifika players. Paris Lokotui remembers the moment time stood still. The 21-year-old was playing ...
A month on from Cyclone Gabrielle, many residents in Muriwai are still living in limbo, unable to return to their homes "I can't look back because it's too sad. I can't look forward because it is too daunting." Kat Corbett's Muriwai home remains out-of-bounds more than a month after ...
The Climate Change Commission's chair says the Government's decisions to ignore its advice could weaken the country's most important climate policy. ...
Coconut plantations are far from being ‘natural’ environments, coconut oil is high in saturated fats, and, despite the advertising, most of the global supply of coconut oil doesn’t come from the Pacific Islands eitherOpinion: Coconut oil has gained a halo as a natural health product, with claims it can ...
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By Hamish Cardwell, RNZ News senior journalist There is “is much to win by trying” to take action on climate change — that is a key finding in a major new international climate report the UN chief is calling a “survival guide for humanity”. It is something of a mic ...
A pōwhiri, a pie, and a grilling from primary school kids: Today was the day the boy from the Hutt who grew up to be prime minister went home for a visit. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Australia’s decision to buy three nuclear-powered submarines and build another eight is so expensive that, for the A$268 billion to $368 billion price tag, we could give a million dollars ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Denniss, Adjunct Professor, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Australia has 116 new coal, oil and gas projects in the pipeline. If they all proceed as planned, an extra 1.4 billion tonnes of greenhouse gases would be released into ...
Figures unearthed by the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union reveal that the growth in public sector managers is almost twice that of frontline social, health and education workers. Since 2017, the frontline workforce for social services, health and education ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dominic O’Sullivan, Adjunct Professor, Faculty of Health and Environmental Sciences, Auckland University of Technology, and Professor of Political Science, Charles Sturt University A referendum will be held later this year to enshrine a First Nations’ Voice to Parliament into the Australian constitution. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Haoyang Zhai, PhD Candidate, The University of Melbourne Alexander Schimmeck/Unsplash Since its inception in 1921, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has officially promoted an atheist and materialist ideology. But belief systems in China are making a comeback – and ...
Scott Robertson has been announced successor to Ian Foster as head coach of the All Blacks, completing a controversial and highly idiosyncratic appointment process. He will assume the role in 2024, following the world cup at the end of this year. The contract for the breakdancing current coach of the ...
Multicultural New Zealand (MNZ) has expressed concern about events scheduled to take place in Auckland and Wellington on March 25th and 26th, respectively. The events will feature British anti-transgender activist, Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull. MNZ is ...
“It might just be best to let Stephen Franks speak for himself ”
Very wise ..
a_y_b,
If you happen to know, what was this gathering?
It seems like an audience hostile to Franks, yet he said things that were going to be grossly unpopular. If nothing else, Franks has got cajones.
If it was a Labour gathering or a GLBT meeting, he’s a gutsy character. Looking from the other side of the coin, would an outspoken gay rights activist go into a Destiny church and call them all intolerant bigots?
I also think it’s disingenuous to show John Key with the quote superimposed over him. Would you think it OK for National to do the same to Helen Clark for quotes from people way down their party list?
captcha: Govern unfit
With all that diversity talk National made recently note that they didn’t trumpet their gay candidate Chris Findlayson…who would have made a far better candidate in Wellington Central than Franks.
No Scribe, most gay rights activists would choose their battles a bit more sensibly. So while Franks might have cajones (and yes, let’s cheer the bravery it takes to be intolerant!) he doesn’t have common sense.
for the record, it’s spelled cojones but in any case, I don’t think they’re what NZ politics is lacking at present. There’s no shortage of opinionated bigots, either; I’d say that as a group they are over-represented in parliament.
Well, at least he’s equal opportunity intolerant. He dislikes the Christians and the gays.
I’m just guessing – think it may have been the “meet the Wellington Central candidates meeting” hosted at someone’s flat:
http://3news.co.nz/Political/Story/tabid/419/articleID/66365/Default.aspx
Is he not allowed to have a view on civil unions then?
He is allowed to have a view, but only if it’s compatible with that of a_y_b and his/her mates in a Wellington central flat…
Monkey-Boy ‘Is he not allowed to have a view on civil unions then?’
Sure he is, and people are also allowed not to vote for him.
He’s a great ad for the National Party, old fashioned, narrow minded and best of all not scared to say what he thinks, unless that is he was getting ‘too excited’ or ‘mis-spoke’.
Rocket,
He’s #60 on the party list. Maybe we can peruse the Internet for interesting quotes from #60 on Labour’s list when it’s announced (assuming they even bother listing that many)
An excellent guy – he is extremely well regarded and will make an excellent MP when he wins Wellington Central on 18 October 2008. Of course we don’t know the context (but that never matters to you guys – I go to church with a few grumpy Catholics – I am pround to be one myself – and of course we are grumpy we have had to put up with Labour and their corrupt poodle for niin long years. (only a few more weeks to go.
On the other hand – well gays may whine – but i suggest that it is because their dear leader is about to be evicted from office – so when broken down (no doubt right out of context- I think Stephen Franks is right on the money
Of course he can have opinions! We all can. My opinion is that Stephen Franks should be banned from procreating in the interests of not raising intolerant children. And because he’s creepy looking.
Scribe why don’t you do that for all of Labour’s #60 list candidates ever and get back to us. Sounds like a fascinating research project and I’m quite sure you’ll make an excellent job of it.
A victory for straight atheists everywhere! Maybe Franks should insult MORE groups of people and thus grow his constituency??!
just a quick translation for those using Spanish words:
cojones – balls
cajones – draws
Scribe,
Are you aware that Key voted against the Civil Unions Bill?
Why shouldn’t he be associated with National Party anti Civil Union rhetoric?
Anita
From the Sydney Herald ….
“Clark appointed Peters foreign minister in 2005 in return for support of her Labour Party minority government.
The pressure to suspend him comes at a bad time for Clark’s government, which needs the support of New Zealand First for legislation it wants to pass before voters go to the polls.
Peters has been a controversial figure in the government for his outspoken attacks on Asian immigration before becoming foreign minister and for his confrontational style with the media.”
Are you aware the Helen Clark supports Winston Peters ?
Why shouldn’t she be associated with his outspoken attacks on Asian immigration ?
hs it’s time you came up with a new handle. higherstandard is just not appropriate when you’re commenting at the level of burt and scribe.
hs,
huh?
I pointed out that, like Franks, Key voted against the Civil Unions Bill. Key leads the party for which Franks is a candidate and has not criticised Franks attitude toward homosexuality and civil unions.
Any chance of an example which bears some similarities to my point?
But, to be clear, if Clark and a Labour MP voted the same way on a conscience vote – yes I think it is reasonable to associate her with what that MP says unless she has overtly distanced herself from it.
Sorry Anita my point may have been lost on you.
I was suggesting that you were drawing along bow to suggest that Key shares Franks attitudes towards homosexuality and civil unions.
I wouldn’t expect he even knows what Franks attitudes are nor really do we from this video – it would be analagous to taking video of Cullen’s Rich Prick outburst in the house and concluding that he detests anyone with money.
hs,
We know that Key voted against Civil Unions, his attitude seems pretty clear.
I’m not saying we should attribute Franks’ comments to Key. I am saying that Key is associated with those comments.
Fair enough Anita I’ll accept that, I was taking a more strict version of association.
….. like the Prime Minster being associated with WP lying to the public and parliament. 🙂
highrestandard – my typing is getting worse 🙁
Doh
hs,
It’s a bad day when you can’t type your own name 🙂
Atina
hs:
No – as a minority party, NZF supports NZLP rather than the other way around. She does support him in the matters associated with his portfolio.
No – if you look at the details of the coalition agreement from 2005 (I’m short of time so haven’t looked up the link). NZF and Peters have freedom to speak on matters outside of his portfolio area(s) without being constrained by cabinet collective responsibility. That was put in to allow Winston to talk about matters like immigration without having Labour associated with them (or vice versa).
Boy some people (like JK) are desperate to try to associate HC with WP – such a pity that these inconvenient facts get in the way.
Lynn
Perhaps you should read back through my discussion with Anita.
So this would be an example of Franks’ alleged top notch thinking skillz then?
From what he says in the clip, one of his objections to the CUB was that it was somehow analogous to allowing him to marry his dog. Or that if the bill passed then there could be no objection to his doing so. ok.
Perhaps Scribe or Monty or HS could save the conservative side of the debate from epic embarrassment and point out what is missing from Fwanksie’s widdle analysis.
Perhaps a direct question of why he opposes the Civil Union legislation and what are his views on homosexuality ?
Why don’t you ask him at his blog ?
hs,
Oooh – if you’re going to do that you could also ask him why he tried to change the Human Rights Act to explicitly make discrimination against homosexuals legal!
Why don’t you ask him at his blog ?
Because I was asking you HS. Do you know what the great big problem is with his argument?
I don’t really give a shit what Franks would say. He made that argument, either as a pander to fundies or because he thinks it is a good argument. In either case, that tells me all I need to know about Mr Franks. No further information from him is required as far as I’m concerned.
I am interested in how widespread his misunderstandings are, so that’s why I asked some conservatives that hang around here.
Can you help me out, or would you just like me to to tell you what is so obviously retarded about Mr Franks stupid argument? But surely you know why bestiality is not comparable to homosexuality?
I think the whole debate about sexuality is a subject that has no place in politics. Dividing society on “they are not tolerant to my views on sexuality” or “I’m not tolerant to their views on sexuality” on highly emotive issues is the lowest form of political manipulation.
If you really want to root out the true sexual weirdos then remember (in the context of consenting adults) the only true deviancy is abstinence.
burt,
The problem is that parliament passes legislation which controls how we express out sexuality. When politicians are looking to legislate our private lives their attitudes become really significant.
Burt, Did you mean “If you really want to root out the true sexual weirdos then remember (in the context of consenting adults) the only true deviancy is enforced abstinence.”?
ie priests, prisons, children of christians/moslems doing it because it is expected of them rather than a commitment they have have made on their own volition?
Hey monty – I would almost consider betting a grand on Franks not winning in central. I reckon TAB would put at higher odds than Samoa 13+ NZ this wednesday.
And thank god for that.
Anita
Well they shouldn’t. It’s as simple as that. The likes of the civil union bill is a start and adding in rights for Polyamory although contentious is something that should never have been excluded in the first place. When the state seeks to control how we form intimate/loving/parenting relationships with other adults it has gone to far.
Indeed, we do need to know that these people have a social engineering or control agenda beyond law and order.
Kevyn Miller
Well yes and no… I agree that doing it because it’s required is a bit weird, what sort of religion would seek to suppress one of human natures most basic desires? A bit like govts I suppose the answer to that is one that wants to control how people live their lives for their own agenda.
However I personally think that the concept of voluntary abstinence is pretty weird. I can easily understand how people don’t want the complications of relationships and the expectations such as monogamy that may come with them – but total abstention is something I can’t understand. That’s not to say it’s wrong – but imagine if I were a control freak politician and I legislated that people must have sex at least once every 6 months because I don’t understand abstinence. As weird as that sounds it is actually no more over the top than people saying a civil union must only be between two adults.
burt said: I can easily understand how people don’t want the complications of relationships and the expectations such as monogamy that may come with them – but total abstention is something I can’t understand.
Ever heard of masturbation burt? Many people choose to masturbate for their sexual satisfaction rather than have a sequence of emotionally meaningless sexual liaisons (or one long-term emotionally meaningless one for that matter).
Bugger me peter how appropriate a Toad is the master of wanking. Talk about lickspittles.
toad
I wouldn’t count a person who isn’t actively in meaningless relationships but masturbates as being a person who is abstaining from sex. They are clearly abstaining from relationships but not from sex.
Various religions might seek to make a person in this situation feel guilty of being ‘immoral’ or ‘wrong’ but I wouldn’t pass such judgment. If you are describing yourself or a friend of yours then good on you – knock yourself out. 🙂
D4J
I’ll issue you a challenge. Only post again in this thread if you have never masturbated.
Good points burt.
d4j, the challenge is open on frogblog too, for that matter.
People, I know that the topic leads to it a bit. But I’ll start using a sock (with a brick in it) here shortly if the abuse level rises further.
I might add that this is the sock I’ve had on while traipsing around a hill farm today. It is also the sock that made my girlfriend start talking about deal-breakers when she accidentally leaned over it after I’d pulled the disgustingly muddy and smelling thing off.
Hell I’m afraid of this sock – where are the tweezers and the washing machine. Let me tell you that it was a bit wet and cold on the hills north of Auckland today. Damn the forecasters – they promised scattered showers.
Oh well the sock is less dirty than the original topic of this thread.
Yes Lynn socks can get rather high when they’re in jackboots all day 🙂
Running shoes – was not the right choice today.
I’d have taken the tramping boots if the forecast had been for “bloody freezing rain coming down continuously and sideways due to a stiff wind”. But it was for scattered showers, which means to me that most of the time it will not be what I accurately described it as.
BTW: The current fashion for women appears to be for high boots. But personally I wouldn’t suggest wearing those out of slippery wet paddocks either. However using them on other slippery things, preferably with extremely sharp toes to pin down a straight policy answer…
An image to consider.
what an advert for National – let me see…jumped ship from ACT and now trying to reinvent himself ..drives around Wellington in a mustard 60’s retro VW!!! How very national…still, he can’t hide (get it) the narrow minded intolerent right wing ideology no matter the change in wheels.
Anita,
Are you aware that Key voted against the Civil Unions Bill?
Why shouldn’t he be associated with National Party anti Civil Union rhetoric?
Voting against the Civil Unions bill doesn’t mean you think homosexuals are “whining gays”. To tie those comments to Key seems to be a long stretch.
Scribe,
Has Key done anything to dissociate himself from Franks comments?
Anita,
He probably has no idea the comments were even made.
Scribe, Franks was making those same arguments back when the bill was passed.
How about you, what do you think of Franks argument that allowing Civil Unions means we should let him marry his dog in order to be consistent?
Personally I think it’s a retarded argument that completely misses the point.
I also think that Franks knows this and is just cynically pandering to Christian conservatives. If I was a Christian conservative that would piss me right off, because it would mean he thinks I am the type to be convinced by retarded arguments.
How about you, do you find the argument to be retarded or do you think it makes sense, relationship wise?
I think this post of mine on g.blog just about sums up where he’s coming from.
I posted it as a bit of a dig at the Family Party, but it probably also applies to a few Nats.
Pb,
Franks’ argument is silly, in fact so silly it’s strange that intelligent people like you are taking it seriously and asking questions like this.
I think Franks genuinely believes, as I did, that allowing civil unions had the potential to open up a can of worms on the recognition of relationships in the future. Hence the concern some people had when Dyson talked — or didn’t talk — about singles, couples and triples.
I would consider myself a Christian conservative — most here would call me a ragin’ fundamentalist — and the comments don’t “piss me right off”. Again, most people realise his comments were taking legitimate concerns to an intentionally ridiculous conclusion.
But I don’t take his slippery slope argument seriously scribe. That’s why I called it retarded a few times, and suggested that Franks wasn’t being serious himself in making it.
What legitimate concerns? Box turtles? Kitchen chairs perhaps? The point is about consent scribe. A dog can’t get married. Nor can a child or a box turtle or a kitchen chair. None of these can give informed consent to the relationship, and that’s why such fears are under no threat from Civil Unions. That is what makes Franks argument retarded, and it is why his reductio misses the point.
I think I understand that you are a big fan of social engineering, (that you think the govt should restrict how adults should are able to arrange their affairs for the betterment of society), but Franks’ argument isn’t just silly, it misses the point entirely.
Pb,
I think I understand that you are a big fan of personal freedom. So three or five or 13 consenting adults should be allowed to engage in polygamy?
scribe. when you say ‘engage in polgamy’ do you mean have a multi-member relationship or have that relationship legally rrecognised? by using ‘engage in’ I assume you mean the former, and that is already legal. There is no legal restriction on the arrangement of relationships or the number of people participating in one – however, legal recognition is limited to couples.
They already do scribe. Especially if you take a ‘traditional’ view of marriage. Serial monogamy is just another form of adultery in your view, no?
Do you think we should use the law to actively try to stop them, pretend they don’t exist but make life difficult for them, or recognise them?
I was expressing the concerns some people had that passing the CUB might one day lead to legal recognition of polygamous relationships.
Dyson’s speech/non-speech reignited those fears.
Polygamy tends to be the domain of heterosexual religious types – sort of ironic that now we gays are getting lumped in with them as well! Want to blame us for overpopulation as well?