Free public transport for Auckland is a very good idea

66 comments on “Free public transport for Auckland is a very good idea ”

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1. Ad 1

   23 February 2022 at 1:43 pm

   He was good on the Labour Members call last night.

   Genuine and not particularly political.
2. Pataua4life 2

   23 February 2022 at 1:43 pm

   Show me the money. 10's of millions doesn't equate to 400 mil

   This type of policy can only come from an increase in rates.

   He just lost my vote
   • mickysavage 2.1

     23 February 2022 at 2:05 pm

     I shocked Pataua4life

     Shocked that you would ever consider voting for the left wing candidate in the first place.
     • Pataua4life 2.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 3:32 pm

       I hope that Auckland gets someone that is not a patsy for central govt as Goff was.

       Efeso seemed and still maybe that person and as a general stance I have no problem with free public transport. But if you are going to do stuff at least know where all of the money is coming from and don't treat the rate payer like a child.

       That is all I ask.

       Same applies for central govt, which is why Jacinda gives me the shits. Don't treat the voting public like a f%#king 5 year old.
       • weka 2.1.1.1

         23 February 2022 at 4:02 pm

         where did you get $4million from?
         • Pataua4life 2.1.1.1.1

           23 February 2022 at 4:12 pm

           From the OP

           "This policy is very big and very brave. The estimated cost is $210 million per year, $160 million loss in revenue and $60 million for enhanced services."

           210 + 160 + 60 = 430 Mil i was rounding down

           I stand to be corrected if MS meant $210 total consisting of 160 loss + 60 Spend.

           In which case I blame MS for his piss poor math. 160 + 60 = 220 so I took the 210 as a separate cost.
           • ghostwhowalksnz 2.1.1.1.1.1

             23 February 2022 at 4:24 pm

             The link to the story gives the number

             'Giving up those fares would cost Auckland $176 million a year, and AT estimates increased demand would cost an extra $60m to meet.

             176 + 60 = $236 mill
       • Tricledrown 2.1.1.2

         23 February 2022 at 8:05 pm

         That's ironic from someone that behaves like a preschooler.

         Like you were never going to vote for him.

         What if this freed up roads and motorways to make it easier for businesses to move stuff or people around Auckland.
3. tsmithfield 3

   23 February 2022 at 1:57 pm

   Don't you think it is sad that the only way to get people onto public transport is to make it free? And if that doesn't work, is the next step to pay people to use it?

   The problem in NZ is that our public transport system is so useless that it will likely never become viable. For instance, in Christchurch, the bus service is hopeless. Often, it will take several hours to get to a destination that would take 20 minutes by car.

   Our big problem is that we don't have the population, and we are much too spread out for an effective public transport system.

   If I lived in London, I probably wouldn't even bother owning a car because the public transport is amazing. If I ever needed a car there, I would just hire one. The same with a lot of large cities I have visited in Europe and Australia.

   In those cities public transport is just so much more convenient and easy, and I would expect cheaper, than using a car. So it just makes sense. Not so much in NZ.
   • Ad 3.1

     23 February 2022 at 2:16 pm

     COVID has changed public transport use downward in Auckland for years, not just 2020-22. Who wants to get really sick?
   • McFlock 3.2

     23 February 2022 at 2:17 pm

     Took the bus into work today in Dunedin. Took about twice as long as if I drove, sure, but I was able to catch up on my emails and the news and suchlike on the trip. And $2, with no parking costs.
     • tsmithfield 3.2.1

       23 February 2022 at 2:26 pm

       How often is it late and you are left standing/sitting in the cold?

       When I was in Lucerne, Switzerland, about the only thing that was cheap was the public transport that was free within the city for tourists. We got a free pass at our hotel.

       We were waiting for a train into town. An announcement came across that the train was running one minute late, as if that was a major failure.

       I guess that is evidence of "Swiss precision".
       • McFlock 3.2.1.1

         23 February 2022 at 2:34 pm

         These days there are apps which tell you pretty much exactly when the bus will be at your stop. Today the app said "0 mins" when the bus was <100m away, so pretty accurate.
         • tsmithfield 3.2.1.1.1

           23 February 2022 at 2:43 pm

           Sounds like it must be fairly heavily subsidised at $2 a trip.

           Not that I am necessarily against subsidies. There may be a trade off between subsidising a bus service at a loss and spending a lot more on new roads etc. But, I think the key thing is that the transport has to be cheaper and more convenient than taking a car for it to be successful.

           By "success'' I don't mean just economically, but in terms of taking pressure off infrastructure, improving the environment etc.
           • McFlock 3.2.1.1.1.1

             23 February 2022 at 2:48 pm

             not as heavily as if it were free.
           • mickysavage 3.2.1.1.1.2

             23 February 2022 at 2:50 pm

             The proposal is that public transport in Auckland will be free and more regular so it would qualify. All PT in New Zealand and pretty well all of the world is subsidised. There is a greater good in not having cars clog up the roads.

             Auckland's public transport is not too bad in parts. Outside my office the trains run every 10 minutes and a train to downtown is just as quick as driving and a lot more relaxing.
             • tsmithfield …

               23 February 2022 at 2:58 pm

               I agree that public transport tends to be OK if it is on a main route.

               But, in Christchurch if you want to go anywhere else, then often there is several, sometimes up to four, interchanges. That just makes it highly inconvenient.

               I also agree that subsidies are worthwhile for the greater good, as per my post above. But I think the bigger problem is actually making it more convenient than car travel overall. Not just on the main routes.

               Unless we can achieve that, then I don't think making it free or whatever is going to incentivise people enough to use it.

               In London, even with all the public transport, the roads are really congested in the central city. Even with hefty congestion charges. Getting around by public transport is just so much faster, easier, and cheaper.
               • Craig H …

                 23 February 2022 at 4:14 pm

                 As an occasional Christchurch user, agree with our system's issues. For someone who lives near a main route and works/studies in town or somewhere on the main route they live by, it's fantastic e.g. a student at Ara or University of Canterbury. For someone in the further reaches of the city, not so much. It's also expensive for families as they have to buy 1 ticket per person, which for a family of 2 adults and 2 children is $8.30 each way. Compared to just parking in town for $2 for 2 hours, and it's not the easiest cost to justify suddenly.

                 Auckland have their own challenges but also much more expensive city parking and the bigger population to potentially get more out of economies of scale.
               • Koff …

                 23 February 2022 at 4:34 pm

                 London is definitely different. I used to work as a clippy (conductor) on the big, red buses there for a couple of years. Even though I got free public transport I found that it was quicker to use a bicycle around most of London because of the congestion! At weekends I could stick the bike on a tube or train and get out of the city for free, too!

                 I have used bikes in Auckland to get to work in the city and it was a bit of a nightmare, but would now use an electric bike and better bike lanes (incidentally ChCh has always been great for cycling – so flat (apart from the Port Hills).

                 Tried using the bus regularly between Panmure and the city but it was also a nightmare. Don't think having free fares would have made any difference. I still had to get up at 5 to get on the motorway by car when it was relatively less congested and didn't get back until after dark. Crazy.

                 Free fares on Auckland's PT network must be accompanied by much better, more frequent sevices, and then strong disincentives for single passenger car use.
                 • tsmithfield …

                   23 February 2022 at 5:20 pm

                   I think the subway is amazing to use in London, and definitely my preferred way of getting around there.

                   The only time I used a bus was when we did a open top double decker bus tour around the city centre.
               • James Simpson …

                 23 February 2022 at 5:22 pm

                 There are not a lot of cross city transport options. If you want to go to the CBD it works reasonably well from pretty much anywhere. If you want to go east to west, or north to south, the car will usually win.

                 Time is usually more important then the cost of the trip.
             • Belladonna …

               23 February 2022 at 6:22 pm

               Agree that public transport in Auckland, during rush hours, into the CBD and out again is OK. I used bus and ferry when I worked in the CBD, myself.
               Anywhere else – especially cross-town – it's a nightmare.

               But which way are we having it? Are we going to substantially continue working from home (office workers), and let the CBD become a hollow shell? (in which case, great bus services into and out of it are pretty pointless). Or are we returning to BAU, and having everyone work in the CBD again (with all the associated congestion issues).
           • Shanreagh 3.2.1.1.1.3

             23 February 2022 at 11:08 pm

             These are good points TS. So often the idea of subsidies is looked at just in relation to the sector it is relevant too.

             Like you I think subsidies can be looked at as generating a wider public good. So the public good would be 'taking pressure off infrastructure, improving the environment etc'.

             They still need to make sure the routes are relevant, buses are timely and get priority over cars with bus lanes and phased lights.
   • DukeEll 3.3

     23 February 2022 at 3:35 pm

     And this fascination with big boy train sets? I love the CRL as it'll ad 10% to the value of my property. but i won't use it much.

     The days of autonomous, electric cars operating as taxi fleets are fast approaching, rendering fixed "routes" impractical for the majority of non private vehicle users when presented with better options.

     Of course, people will never abandon CD's for streaming as the vast majority of people demand their music uncompressed, even if cumbersome and prone to failure
   • Gypsy 3.4

     23 February 2022 at 6:58 pm

     "Don't you think it is sad that the only way to get people onto public transport is to make it free? And if that doesn't work, is the next step to pay people to use it?"

     Sad, but entirely predictable. PT in Auckland is shit. End of story.
   • AB 3.5

     23 February 2022 at 7:06 pm

     Our big problem is that we are … much too spread out for an effective public transport system

     If so, it's because our cities were designed for cars, so naturally we use cars – and by your reckoning are perpetually doomed to use cars. In what other aspect of our lives are we forced to live with our previous cock-ups in perpetuity? Does the entire history and prehistory of humanity contain no instance of people saying – " this is effing stupid and serves the economic interests of a minority of us, let's try something different"?
     • tsmithfield 3.5.1

       23 February 2022 at 8:55 pm

       Perhaps. But it doesn't have to be a bad thing. If environmentally friendly options such as electric vehicles become mainstream, and they can be powered with renewable energy, then roads don't have to be such a problem.

       Also, as our population grows, and our city centres become more populated through more apartment living and the like, then public transport will become more viable. So, I wouldn't say that public transport is doomed for ever. But, at the moment, it is going to be hard to make it popular.
4. Tiger Mountain 4

   23 February 2022 at 2:27 pm

   Great idea, and vote catcher, as it opens up the whole debate for less money to be spent on managerialism and $100,000 plus salaries, and more on services that ordinary people can use.

   Not free public transport, but fare free for users with positive spinoffs for congestion, parking and pollution if there is uptake.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   23 February 2022 at 2:40 pm

   People born during & since the 1950s are scared of socialism due to maturing as it was being discredited in the 1970s, so I give him full marks for audacity!

   Born in '49, I'm on the cusp of that change & am happy with the prospect of it returning whilst being sceptical if anyone can make it work. It did work (mostly) when I was a kid so I recall the ambience of trust & reliability it created in our culture.

   If he didn't actually admit his policy is socialist then full marks to him for giving people the chance to figure it out for themselves – since most of them won't! Marketing 1.01!
   • mickysavage 5.1

     23 February 2022 at 2:52 pm

     It works fine in different parts of the world. In Tokyo there are very few cars on the road and the trains are regular and efficient. And once you learn the system in China you never want to do anything else.
     • Scott 5.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 10:05 pm

       Nicky in Japan trains are fast, on time and ubiquitous

       This just can’t ever happen here
       • JeremyB 5.1.1.1

         24 February 2022 at 11:29 am

         Not with that attitude it won't.
     • Scott 5.1.2

       23 February 2022 at 10:06 pm

       Mickey in Japan trains are fast, on time and ubiquitous

       This just can’t ever happen here
6. Sanctuary 6

   23 February 2022 at 2:57 pm

   It is a huge advance for people in poor parts of Auckland, who have the choice of clapped out cars (and often running foul of the law with no rego or warrant) or expensive public transport.

   Free PT represents an extra $30-40 in the pocket for the working poor.

   Further, making it free and making it tougher to own a car is actually the exact approach we need to take in terms of top-down initiatives to combat climate change in a meaningful way.
7. thebiggestfish7 7

   23 February 2022 at 3:03 pm

   Absolutely agree with this. A drop in the bucket expenditure wise when we think about the impacts on some peoples lives, freeing up congestion on Auckland roads, climate impacts etc. My one concern is that this may invite a few unsavoury characters onto our public transport which could make people feel unsafe. Perhaps bus wardens/security officers who could double as guides for out of town people as a solution. Just spitballing. Great idea though!.
8. Gosman 8

   23 February 2022 at 3:03 pm

   It isn't free. It will be merely funded via the Council so that people don't need to pay a fare to use it. Most people will still pay for it. They will just do so via rates and/or taxes.
   • Tiger Mountain 8.1

     23 February 2022 at 3:15 pm

     Why do those that do get free lunches-like luxury Luxon-enjoy telling the rest of us, as they move between their air conditioned spaces, that there is no free lunch!
   • Ad 8.2

     23 February 2022 at 3:16 pm

     On that argument not a single public service can ever be free.

     Not useful thinking.
     • Gosman 8.2.1

       23 February 2022 at 3:33 pm

       That is correct. Not a single public service is free. It is good to see you are open to finally grasping this concept although you are seemingly slightly resisting the implications.
       • tsmithfield 8.2.1.1

         23 February 2022 at 3:39 pm

         Normally I would agree. But, in the case of public transport, I think there is an argument that it can be free for the taxpayer/ratepayer, or even cost positive.

         That is, if the cost of providing a public transport system is offset by not having to spend on infrastructure such as more roads etc. That would mean that the public transport provided would need to be good enough to attract enough people off the public roads to make building the roads unnecessary.

         If the cost of providing such a public transport system is less than the cost of the infrastructure, then it is a win for the ratepayer/taxpayer.
       • KJT 8.2.1.2

         23 February 2022 at 3:53 pm

         Technically true.

         But in most cases the cost of supplying public services is considerably cheaper than the cost of not having them. Rail freight, and hospitals are an example.

         A net gain!

         And. Almost always cheaper, and often more efficient, than supply by the private sector.
         • tsmithfield 8.2.1.2.1

           23 February 2022 at 4:13 pm

           We probably aren't too far apart on that.

           Even though I believe in a market driven economy, I also believe there are instances where that is not the best option, especially when the government is able to pool taxpayer resources to purchase in bulk for the benefit of taxpayers, and able to centrally co-ordinate to best effect.

           One example in recent time is the power reforms in the late 90s that were driven by a National government I think. Even though I am a right wing voter, I thought those reforms were stupid, and driven ideologically rather than rationally.

           Our population is not much larger than a medium sized city in many countries. Also, a market-driven power sector didn't seem logical to me because many of the decisions for generation need to be made over a much longer term than the private sector could justify in terms of pay-back.

           Here is a paper on that if you are interested:

           https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-5,-1999/Kalderimis.pdf

           I think similar arguments can be made for health.

           So, in some situations I think a centrally planned model is best, even though it may be against my normal philosophical perspective. It is more to do with how effectively the model is implemented more than anything else.
           • Barfly 8.2.1.2.1.1

             23 February 2022 at 5:04 pm

             "I think similar arguments can be made for health."

             I agree and would love to see the part charges for prescriptions eliminated – I believe currently a significant portion of prescriptions go uncollected which undoubtedly leads to higher numbers of hospitalisations for the untreated/ undertreated coditions ("stitch in time saves nine" as grandma used to say)

             Apologies for off topic
       • weka 8.2.1.3

         23 February 2022 at 4:04 pm

         you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to think the council would magic up a PT system without having to spend any money though.
       • Tricledrown 8.2.1.4

         24 February 2022 at 10:45 am

         Gosman your simplistic world view that taxes are bad .That public services are useless.

         Are so far from reality that ACT baseline support around .5% in normal times .Is how most people understand you have to invest in society for it to function.

         Looking at the US in these Covid times show red states low tax less govt have had the worst damage both in deaths and economically not to mention sky rocketing gun violence in Republican states with the lowest taxes and least controls.

         Gun violence passed the road toll for the first time.

         California one of the few states to have lowered it's gun death rate.has one of the toughest gun control laws.

         Seymour is advocating for slacker gun controls to pick up the fringe gun lobby here.

         Yet the police want tougher laws.They want every gun registered.

         Yesterday a Jehovahs witness was found guilty of killing a pet Deer he had over 30 guns in his possession.

         S
   • KJT 8.3

     23 February 2022 at 3:42 pm

     Like roads in the city, then?
     • weka 8.3.1

       23 February 2022 at 4:06 pm

       lol. But let's not forget the time that National wanted to put trackers in everyone's car and make them pay for using the road depending on how much they drove. Ah the heady days of early neoliberalism when people thought user-pays was a good idea and ran with it.
       • tsmithfield 8.3.1.1

         23 February 2022 at 4:22 pm

         They actually have that type of system for toll roads in France.

         You get a bill at the end of each month or whatever. I think they have it in the UK as well.

         If you were a citizen it would definitely be a much more convenient way of being billed.

         Usually, the toll roads more than justify the cost of using them in the UK and Europe. We drove from Marseille through to Nice on the toll road. It took around two hours, and cost us around 30 Euros I think. The "scenic route" around the coast was about the same distance but was going to take four hours.

         I expect the slower route would probably have cost more in fuel due to the winding roads etc. So the toll road was quicker and possibly more economical.
         • weka 8.3.1.1.1

           23 February 2022 at 6:16 pm

           France and the UK have trackers in every vehicle?
           • Koff 8.3.1.1.1.1

             23 February 2022 at 6:36 pm

             They won't be trackers, just electronic tags. You get charged as you enter the toll road. Just need to remember to pay the bill online. Auckland has a similar system for the Puhoi toll road. It's the only one I think. With the price of fuel, ts is right, it's cheaper to pay the toll despite reservations about user pays than using the alternative route. I use the Gateway Bridge toll every time I cross the Brisbane River on the M1 rather than crawling through Brisbane traffic and usually getting totally lost. The bridge also has an adjacent cycleway which is well used – free and zero emissions!
           • Tricledrown 8.3.1.1.1.2

             23 February 2022 at 8:21 pm

             No not necessarily Weka you can have electronic gps toll device or pay at the toll gate.

             People and trucks who have gps don't need to stop at every toll gate.

             Tsm toll charges have gone up considerably since Macron came to power one of the biggest reasons for the Yellow Jackets.virtually every speed camera was disabled.
             • tsmithfield …

               23 February 2022 at 8:59 pm

               Yes, it is interesting.

               We had a French guy working for us for awhile. He said he was getting paid about the same in NZ as he was in France, and that the cost of living was cheaper in France. Yet he could save for a house in NZ, but he wasn't able to do that in France. He said the reason was the taxes in France are way worse than in NZ.

               So, it doesn't surprise me that toll charges have gone up.
9. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 9

   23 February 2022 at 3:44 pm

   When he stood for mayor of Christchurch 2 elections ago, John Minto had, as one of his planks, 'free and frequent' public transport.

   I supported him then and I support the idea still. We have to go this way if we are going to make any sort of meaningful dent in the looming climate crisis.
   • Gosman 9.1

     23 February 2022 at 4:15 pm

     Do you mean like how the commuter train between Hamilton and Auckland is reducing carbon emissions per commuter km?
     • Barfly 9.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 5:07 pm

       currently undersubscribed – "have patience young padawan"
     • lprent 9.1.2

       23 February 2022 at 6:28 pm

       Do you mean like how the commuter train between Hamilton and Auckland is reducing carbon emissions per commuter km?

       That is a function of traffic. For some reason having a pandemic on has caused problems getting passengers. I believe our domestic airlines have the same problem. Even our road to hamilton is pretty clear at present.

       So I suspect your reaction would be to shut airports and tear up roads on the basis of your attitude about train transport – as they aren’t as efficient as they were in the past?

       I am meant to be going down to work in Hamilton once a week. Since September I have been to Hamilton once.

       I would have preferred to use the TeHuia, but it doesn’t work well as a commuter train from Auckland to Hamilton. I guess that is what you get when the Waikato Regional Council is putting up most of the money.
10. Suraya Sidhu Singh 10

    23 February 2022 at 4:04 pm

    Instead of assuming free public transport will achieve our wildest hopes and dreams, let's look at what's happened when other places have tried it.

    Overseas trials show it has very little impact on driving — there is a fairly small increase passengers (~25%) but no corresponding decrease in driving. There were also negatives like reduced timeliness, poorer bus driver retention and more vandalism.

    A cost of $210 million is a lot given the whole Auckland PT budget is around $500 million. The biggest driver of public transport uptake is service frequency and coverage, so if he can find that money, it would make more sense to spend it on more services — for that money, they could probably be more than doubled (the cost of adding an additional service is small because much of the budget is admin which doesn't grow much if the network gets bigger.)

    More services would benefit the lowest income earners most because they more often work unsociable hours and live in places not well served currently by public transport.

    Although it may sound counter-intuitive, simplified, cheaper fares can work better than free fares. Queenstown introduced a $2 fare + $1 for each extra zone and their public transport use went up 105% — that's a way better result than any free public transport trial. It's also important people can pay cash and the difference between bus card and cash fares isn't too punitive, because people on low incomes are more often cash-reliant. People struggling to pay their rent or feed themselves can't take the risk of loading money onto a Hop card, no matter how much it saves them, because they might need that money for something else. If there's a big issue with drivers handling cash then make tickets available to buy at dairies and other shops.
    • observer 10.1

      23 February 2022 at 4:25 pm

      That's an informative link, thanks.

      Increasing the cost of parking, congestion charging, or increasing fuel taxes could all be combined with free fares to lower car demand.

      …

      Free public transport may not be effective for making transport sustainable on its own, but it can have plenty of other benefits that make it worthwhile. It can be a progressive social policy, guaranteeing and improving access to public transport for diverse groups that might otherwise struggle to get around.
    • Belladonna 10.2

      23 February 2022 at 6:34 pm

      Also, speaking as a parent, Hop cards are a very expensive item on the budget. Not the fares, but the cards themselves.
      Anyone with kids knows that cards go missing, get folded, spindled and mutilated (the slightest bend makes them unreadable).
      Not to mention the flourishing theft of them from schoolbags.

      Every time, you have to cough up $10 to replace one, and then add an extra $5 (because you can't buy one with no credit on it – even though you're going to transfer the balance once you get home).

      And, if one has just gone missing (under the bed, behind the bookshelf, in the sports bag – you name it). You have to stop it immediately (just in case it's been nicked, and the credit is being used). But you can't re-initialize it when you find it again (usually the next morning, or when the room is cleaned on the weekend) – that card is 'dead' for ever.

      Our school secretary has a drawer literally full of them which have been found at school – and are useless because they've been cancelled in the meantime.

      I reckon I pay around $50+ a term to AT for the 'privilege' of having hop cards. It ain't cheap.
    • Belladonna 10.3

      23 February 2022 at 6:46 pm

      In terms of usage. I know anecdotally, and I believe that it's been measured, that the Gold Card increased patronage of PT (predominantly buses) substantially by the 65+ age group. Setting aside the rort which is the Waiheke Island golden oldies ferry services.

      A caveat is that the OAPs are also the people who have a lot more time in their day, and can afford to be more leisurely in their travel.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/editorial-cost-blowout-takes-shine-off-gold-card/CLZ7AI7O456AWW3IL4L3WANWVQ/

      I do think that both the Govt and the Council had the fee model wrong (which is why the blowout) – but certainly free PT substantially increases independence for people without cars and at the lower end of the economic spectrum (where every penny counts).

      Notably, the trials that the Council did offering free travel on weekends for school kids – didn't have anything like the same uptake.
    • Kiwijoker 10.4

      23 February 2022 at 11:43 pm

      You have to give your service a value otherwise it garners no respect. However, Efeso will get it right.
11. observer 11

    23 February 2022 at 4:19 pm

    Almost everyone using Auckland public transport has a card now. "Free" simply means you don't need to scan it when getting on/off. Some seem to think it's already free, in my experience. We can't expect low-paid bus drivers to chase down every fare, they are already mask cops, tour guides, etc.

    Once people get used to the idea they would use public transport more (good), they would make more journeys for shopping (economic good), leisure (health good), all kinds of reasons.

    Of course it's already subsidised, so it's really just a question of how public money is spent efficiently.
12. Gypsy 12

    23 February 2022 at 7:14 pm

    Over recent years, Auckland Transport and a variety of Auckland Councillors have thrown everything at forcing people into PT, including cycle lanes that no-one uses and road calming designed to make driving less desirable. Panuku have joined the act with the cock up in Henderson. Despite these ideological brain farts, and their attendant costs to the ratepayer, Aucklanders continue to choose to drive over catching an unreliable and slow PT system

    Five years after Simon Wilson wrote that "Auckland Transport is blighted by systemic incompetence" not much as changed.
13. Stuart Munro 13

    23 February 2022 at 8:18 pm

    In principle free public transport is a very good idea, and a logical step towards lower carbon costs. In practice it rather depends on the skill and integrity of those delivering it.

    Consider the cycleway – which would have offered a free option for harbour crossing. It was scotched at a Sochi-level corruption price of $50 million. Evidently a subsidized electric ferry service benefits from this to some degree. But an electric ferry is not more carbon positive, nor more consumer positive, than a bridge.

    It requires well thought out and well-implemented solutions to deliver the possible benefits. Those involved in Auckland transport to date do not appear to possess either the requisite cognitive resources or practical skills.

    Nice idea though.
    • tsmithfield 13.1

      23 February 2022 at 9:08 pm

      I agree. I think if we are serious about public transport then we shouldn't be half-arsed about it.

      We probably need to envisage a solution that will be good for the next 100 years, and create something that will guide the development of our cities going forward so that our cities grow around the public transport rather than try and shoehorn public transport to our cities.

      We would just need to accept that it is going to take that long to pay for itself. But that the benefits are longterm. That would mean a coherent strategy and require a complete rethink of all our public transport strategies nationwide.

      If we could do that, then we might have something that people actually want to use.

      I can't believe I am actually typing this. But it seems to make sense to me.

      At least we would end up with something that worked. Whereas, at the moment, it seems to me that all our efforts in public transport end up as white elephants.
14. Graeme 14

    23 February 2022 at 10:07 pm

    Queenstown went most of the way there with reducing the fares to $2.00 There's a bit more detail in this article in Mountain Scene

    It's a partnership between the local Council (QLDC), Regional Council (ORC) with responsibility for passenger transport, and NZTA with responsibility for State Highways.

    Queenstown had a unique problem in that most (80-90%) of the traffic into the CBD came along Frankton Road which is State Highway. Frankton Road was upgraded in 2000's to the limit of the corridor, limited by the terrain and development along it. it can't be made to carry any more traffic and also serve the adjoining communities. By 2015 it had reached capacity and stationary traffic jams from Frankton to Queenstown CBD were a thing at times.

    So reasoning went that it was more cost effective to heavily subsidise public transport than put more capacity into Frankton Road. Hence we got a quite frequent, 15 – 30 min Frankton – Queenstown and 30 min hour outer suburb – Qtn bus service, and until quite late as well. Launched with a bit of a party and sort of got going. By 2020 busses were full and there was always people waiting at stops. You'd often see full busses. Along came covid and patronage slowed but looks to be picking up again.

    Now Dunedin is looking at the same thing.

    Re the $2.00 fare, I was at a meeting where it was questioned and at that time a 'free' fare wasn't lawful, there had to be a charge. $2.00 was the cost of collecting that charge. You've got to have a Hop card to get the $2.00 fare, but everyone's got one with $10 on it.

    As for reducing traffic, I think it has on Frankton Road. At least that hasn’t got any worse. Frankton at peak is a mess, but only at peak, and our population has grown by 40% since 2000.

    The only thing that hasn't kept up with the bus service is park and ride, so if you live off the routes you have to drive. For us that's all the way into town, there's less all day parking in Frankton than in the CBD, and the chalk dragons in most of Frankton are highly incentivised private bastards.

    For Auckland, just do it and make the place a real city, not a whole lot of parking areas connected by motorways. It’ll be cheaper and better than building even more roads.

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