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Garner on National’s death rattle

Written By: - Date published: 8:29 am, September 9th, 2017 - 73 comments
Categories: accountability, bill english, election 2017, national, Steven Joyce, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , , , , ,

Here’s some weekend reading for liars Steven Joyce and Bill English:

Duncan Garner: Shameless Steven Joyce digs himself a massive hole to lie in

So let’s call it. Joyce stuffed up this week. In his desperation to smear Labour’s alternative budget, he got it wildly wrong.

He made a $11.7b blunder that goes to the heart of his own credibility. He didn’t use Treasury officials this time – oh no, this was all his own work.

Because there is no $11.7b hole in Labour’s accounts.

There’s not one economist in the country who can find it. But what would they know? Joyce can see it clear as mud.

Who do you believe? A bunch of economists with no vested interest or the politician, the Finance Minister and campaign boss staring at a potential election defeat, but failing to name one independent person who supports his outlandish claim.

He came across like a desperate fool, whose big one-off spray never worked and whose grip on power looks weaker today than it was last Monday.

Remember Joyce and his $11b hole claims were all encouraged and supported by his leader, Bill English. English is guilty too – by association. He’s boots and all in this grubby little set-up.

But it’s clear Labour is now bossing this campaign. Momentum and trend is everything.

Labour’s up 20 points in just four weeks, from 23 per cent to 43 per cent in the latest Colmar Brunton Poll. And National is down almost 10 points in five weeks, from 49 per cent to 39 per cent. It’s not just a game-changing poll. It’s a Government-changing poll.

The one thing that has become clear though is the wall of negative noise known in political circles as the ‘death rattle.’ …

National may not recover in time from its own goal

The National Party’s identification of an $11.7 billion “hole” in Labour’s budgeting looks like a spectacular failure.

Steven Joyce scores a sensational goal and is celebrating with Bill English, but the finance minister and prime minister are the only people in the stadium who don’t realise the ball is in the back of their own net.

Economists agree there is not a hole in Labour’s accounts. Labour has also left room for increases in spending. It has not made an embarrassing mistake that leaves it in a position where it can’t find the money to fund all the spending it wants to carry out.

National should concede it was wrong.

Under Jacinda Ardern’s leadership, Labour is successfully mining a mood for change.

A dramatic but disputed own goal from the other team could prove to be decisive.


https://twitter.com/ChrisKeall/status/905887157549645824

https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/status/905901666901213184

73 comments on “Garner on National’s death rattle ”

  1. tracey 1

    And still no comments or analysis of Nationals spending promises or that in 2014 and 2015 they did what they say Labour woukd have to do as govt. Survive with little wiggle room.

    I am sick of the slavish real world references where real world means I got rich. The real world is when someone needs two jobs to pay rent and bills but no more. Key and Joyce had no experience of this world before enteri g parliament, and it shows. Our Health system is in tatters and education serves the coffers not the futures of our people.

    The problem is many journos move in the same world as these types of pollies and it shows. They also worship at the alter of success = lotsa dosh for me.

  2. Eco maori 2

    Good one Duncan its assume to see you giving your unbiased view on what is going on in our beautiful country.

  3. Ant 3

    Shows how the media love a pile on once there is a bit of momentum behind a candidate. So many porkies told over the past few elections, they finally decide to call Joyce on it instead of gullible acceptance and jumping on Labour every time he makes an unfounded claim.

    • Yep, hundreds of lies by National over the last 9+ years and suddenly they’ve found one.

      • mosa 3.1.1

        ” Hundreds of lies by National over the last nine years and suddenly they’ve found one ”
        Totally agree Draco the media have been in bed with the National party so long they think monogamy is some type of wood.

  4. CLEANGREEN 4

    [your comments are being deleted until you respond to previous moderation – weka]

    • CLEANGREEN 4.1

      weka –

      Please advise ‘what response’ I should be responding to please as to which issue?

      I have not seen other moderation other than telling me not to use capital letters which I have conformed to your request?
      Is it that I should use lower case with my cleangreen to?

      Regards, cleangreen.

      [you’ve been moderated 3 times to stop using all caps in your comments, and you failed to respond to any of those moderations so most of your recent comments (last ten days or so) went into trash. You probably can’t tell from the front end, but that’s a lot of work for me to have moderated and tracked this trying to get your attention. I’d suggest when you comment that you look at your last comments and see if anyone has replied to them. And if you get moderated, then say something to the moderator so they know you have seen and understood the moderation and they can take you out of the Spam list.

      Open Mike 23/08/2017

      Armstrong: The tide going out on National

      The first debate

      – weka]

      • cleangreen 4.1.1

        Understood Weka 100%,

        I had not considered spending time for looking at my last comments and see if anyone has replied to them.

        reason is I am busy with community work right now, but wanted to get our messages out to as many ‘social media’ platforms as possible as other are because we have on TDB bloggers doing this to.

        Sorry for the upper case issue as being ‘offensive’ and will not use it any more.

        When I joined TS in July 2014 many bloggers were using ‘bold’ lettering to place an impression on their blog and thought since I cant do this using uppercase was o/k but now will not.

        All a misunderstanding it’s all cool.

        Thanks weka.

        [thanks cleangreen, we got there in the end and I appreciate your response now, it makes quite a difference when people respond in a real way. All the best with the community work and getting the message out. – weka]

  5. jono 5

    Stuff have closed the comments section below that story by Garner, i cant even see the comments that were already posted. Why do that?

    • NZJester 5.1

      When the right-wing are shown to be wrong and have a hard time passing off their lie as truth they tend to like to get comment sections shut down A.S.A.P. to stifle the debate.

    • Wensleydale 5.2

      Because the only voices that matter are those of the journalists. You know, the people with cameras, microphones and officially sanctioned soapboxes. Everyone else must sit down and shut up. They determine the narrative, and we go back to swilling beer and gawping at the rugby. That’s how it works. Haven’t you been paying attention?

  6. I have heard a death rattle and it is not nice. The gnats aren’t done for yet and after their big loss coming up they will be working out what they have to do to get back in. A cornered animal is dangerous – never get between a seal and the sea.

    And I agree about the pile on – these johnny journalists have no shame and no moral fibre.

    • Ross 6.1

      never get between a seal and the sea

      I was thinking of a rat rather than a seal. 🙂

      But you’re right – what other cheap shots does National have planned?

      • marty mars 6.1.1

        me too but I think rats get a hard time – in non western cultures they are considered auspicious.

        eg Chinese Zodiac “People born in the Year of the Rat are instinctive, acute and alert in nature which makes them to be brilliant businessmen. They can always react properly before the worst circumstances take place. They are also sophisticated and popular in social interaction. They are sanguine and very adaptable, being popular with others.”

        please note – this example is not a comment on the chinese zodiac 🙂

      • Ross 6.1.2

        And right on cue…although this looks pretty unsophisticated, as if Whaleoil produced it.

        Debate Parody

        How the first leader's debate actually went down…

        Posted by NZ Young Nats on Sunday, 3 September 2017

        • marty mars 6.1.2.1

          the young nats are spamming facebook big time – most comments I see take the piss out of them – they, like nearly all righties, have a very undeveloped sense of humour so it is easy to take the piss out of them – they never get the joke especially when THEY are the joke.

          • tracey 6.1.2.1.1

            I laughed at the woman who is posting from Disneyland! Truly has no idea how she came across with her champers in her profile

        • Wensleydale 6.1.2.2

          I imagine they all sat around and had a good chortle about that. Right after they’d finished patting each other on the back and braying, “Haw haw! We’re all so clever, witty and interesting. How could anyone not vote for us?”

          I mean, I’m not so partisan that I’d stubbornly refuse to laugh if it were genuinely funny. But… it’s just not. Very poor effort from the Young Nats there. Must do better.

    • NZJester 6.2

      You just got to see how nasty they get when they have good pole number telling them they will have no problem getting reelected to know cornered like this they can get very dangerous.
      They tried to get Winston out of the way as a king maker and might have done so, but their 11.7b hole attack on Labour has ended up losing them support. They will have people searching for a tiny scrap of dirt they can turn into something bigger by enhancing it with lies.

  7. Red Rosa 7

    In nine years Bill English ran up eight deficits, even while cutting contributions to the super fund and underfunding health, to mention just two areas. All while we supposedly had a ‘rock star economy’. (!) And where has the cash from the asset sales gone? Labour can justifiably ask ‘Show us the money, Bill’. Joyce’s comeuppance richly deserved.

    • lurgee 7.1

      In fairness, he did say he would have to do that and forecast (in 2010) that he would deliver a surplus in 2016. Which he duly did.

      • Hongi Ika 7.1.1

        Manufactured by the way ?

      • NZJester 7.1.2

        The surplus was all smoke and mirrors by temporarily shifting funding from one column to another till after the budget. Most of the services are well under funded by National and there can be no real surplus while they are not being properly funded anyway. Labour had surpluses while managing to also pay off our international debt mostly incurred under the previous National Government before them. National has a habit of giving the rich an easy tax ride while shifting the burden onto the poor to pay off the debts they run up.

    • And where has the cash from the asset sales gone? Labour can justifiably ask ‘Show us the money, Bill’.

      Wish they would. Be great on some of the debates if they pointed out that National had lost the country more than they got from asset sales.

  8. Delia 8

    I just think it is so funny to watch them going belly up.

    • Ed 8.1

      The Nats or the msm

    • tracey 8.2

      If Greens dont get over 5% it is not a forgone conclusion tgat Labour will rule. I want a change of govt so bad

      • NewsFlash 8.2.1

        Remain optimistic, the youth of NZ are going to have their say this election, Generational Change, Govt hasn’t done anything for them, cos they don’t usually vote but I think Jacinda has motivated them, a lot are concerned about the environment and poverty, so the Greens will definitely be there, Polls don’t show their support because they don’t have land lines.

        • tracey 8.2.1.1

          Hey Newsflash
          I havent looked but I do wonder how polling for Green looked in comparisson to election day prior to 2008?

    • RC 8.3

      They are still lashing out at NZF supporters as well, funny, so much bad blood i doubt there will be a coalition.

  9. frankie and benjy 9

    “The hole” has shown that the National government is willing to lie. It is willing to lie big. It won’t accept it was wrong.

    What other lies have they told?

    Are they big ones? Are they ones that many journalists stopped asking questions about?
    Was the Saudi sheep deal “Labour’s fault”? Or did questions stop being asked?
    Was there a “black ops” dirty politics operation in the Prime ministers office? Where is Jason Ede? Have we stopped asking? Have we all read the book?
    Did the minister behave ethically? (substitute JC, PB, etc for minister)
    So many lies. I can’t remember all the times things smelled bad and questions stopped being asked because the National Government said it didn’t smell.

    • What other lies have they told?
      Start here – they won’t be the only ones. Some of them are big but the MSM never called National on them.

      So many lies. I can’t remember all the times things smelled bad and questions stopped being asked because the National Government said it didn’t smell.

      QFT

  10. bwaghorn 10

    the exposure of dirty politic s last election is the reason the nats are not getting away with this shit’ thanks Nicky Hagar for waking the press up to it

    • lprent 10.1

      Pretty much my view as well.

      • mpledger 10.1.1

        I don’t know. It’s way more ham-fisted this time that to not notice is to be brain-dead.

        It’s like Eade was the only one with brains.

        • Keith 10.1.1.1

          Or more likely, Key. He must have had a well chosen entourage of experts in that field.

          With his absence the lying and manipulation is Just second rate from National nowadays.

    • tracey 10.2

      I wonder baghorn. Or was the elevation of Ardern a groundswell from below and onc3 that tide turned the media decided to shone the light more and longer on the lies?

    • Frida 10.3

      @bwaghorn, agreed. Hubby and I were saying exactly that today.

  11. Ross 11

    He made a $11.7b blunder that goes to the heart of his own credibility. He didn’t use Treasury officials this time – oh no, this was all his own work.

    He didn’t need to approach Treasury. All he had to do was tap Grant Robertson on the shoulder – I mean, they both work in the same building – and advise him that there might be an issue with Labour’s fiscal plans. If he didn’t think he’d get the truth from Robertson, then he could’ve contacted BERL or another economist. He didn’t do any of those things, because he didn’t want to. He expected the media would allow him, and National, to get away with murder. It was cynical and it was lazy.

    • He expected the media would allow him, and National, to get away with murder.

      Yes, well, the evidence suggests that the MSM have been letting National get away with a whole lot over the last 9+ years.

  12. Peter 12

    Gareth Morgan explains the last nine years of poor National lead economics in one simple graph.

    http://www.top.org.nz/nationals_claims_strong_eco_performance?utm_campaign=two_weeks_to_go&utm_medium=email&utm_source=garethmorgan

    • Graeme 12.1

      Morgan’s closing comment,
      “They’re either fibbers or just haven’t got a clue”
      Na, you’ve giving them too much there Gareth, It really is “They’re either fibbers AND just haven’t got a clue”

      the trouble with cults like neo liberals and our current National Party is that they believe their own bullshit. Hence dildo’s brain fart this week.

    • tc 12.2

      Hope TOP continue along these lines to directly expose the bs behind the rock star managers meme. Plenty of single event based gold like the power genie rip off.

      As a former fund manager owner it should help the soft nact voters ponder if they’ve been conned or not, being the type they aspire to etc….it all helps.

  13. EE 13

    What other figures has Joyce misunderstood and misinterpreted?
    The guys a joke and can’t possibly be considered a trustworthy Finance Minister

  14. Stuart Munro 14

    Once they’re out we need to drain the swamps where they bred. Kleptocracy is never an acceptable form of government. Lying in office is not acceptable and must cost the liars accordingly.

    • Valerie 14.1

      So true and could not agree more. Just look at the corruption of Maurice Williamson and Judith Collins to see the corruption of Chinese money – most of it dirty. How many others, ie National Party members?

  15. ianmac 15

    If you blatantly lie, then your credibility vanishes. Joyce lied.
    English blatantly agreed with the lie but deflected to other shortcomings.
    Bennett blatantly agreed with lie but deflected into other issues.
    Credibility gone. And so the credibility has also leeched away for National candidates everywhere when they support the lie.

    That should mean that all other MPs, Journalists and voters must know what each of the above “Leaders” look like when they are lying. Barefaced lies are morally disastrous for Democracy.

    Surely therefore every statement made now by Joyce, Bennett and English should be greeted with contempt. Imagine a Town Hall faced with speeches from any of the above three?

  16. Yes ,… its out the back door for Stephen Dildo Joyce – and the rest of his colleagues ,… now ,… there’s a country to be repaired and then run after September 23rd ,… we need to be focusing on that now.

    Happy days.

  17. tracey 17

    Any doubt about English’s social conservatism? Latest spending promise is our money to fix churchs. No thanks.

    • Yep – the people are the ‘church’. And after 9 years of engineering poverty , pollution and dismantling our social services etc comes a definite first. There’s a lot of work to be done once National is voted out come September 23rd.

      • tracey 17.1.1

        $30m suddenly available to fix churches. Bugger that put it toward poverty health or education.

        • WILD KATIPO 17.1.1.1

          100%

          And I think that was the general consensus among the audience at the last / third leaders debate.

        • Patricia 17.1.1.2

          That won’t help many churches ; some are looking at over $5 million per fix.
          I’d rather ensure that no family homes in Christchurch still needed rebuilding.

  18. Huh?… what I’m meaning is forget the church until all the rest is done lol!

  19. CoroDale 19

    International power shifts, so the gNats know their bubble bath formula will fail in the next term.

    Optimistic that Greens and NZFst can share bath water, Labour will need their help to remove all…

  20. EnglishAsASecondLanguage 20

    Yes but, no but, yes but, no but…
    Remember Little Britain?

    Remind anyone of anyone?

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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Support for innovative Pacific education responses to COVID-19 needs
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Crown will not appeal Dodds v Southern Response decision
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  • $27million investment in global vaccine facility
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    3 days ago
  • Government backing Māori landowners
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • PGF makes Māori history more accessible
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  • Boost for COVID-19 related Pacific education needs
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  • Procurement to promote jobs, Māori and Pasifika businesses and sustainability
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  • District Court judge appointed
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  • Approval given to Commercial Film and Video Production Proposal
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  • Supporting a thriving wānanga sector to benefit Māori learners
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