Gaza

Written By: - Date published: 10:46 am, April 6th, 2018 - 69 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, International, israel, journalism, Media, Politics, Propaganda, the praiseworthy and the pitiful - Tags: , ,

Israel is expecting the presence of some 50 000 people as participants in the next step of “The Great Return March” on Friday. In spite of the likely overwhelmingly peaceful nature of the event, the Israeli defence minister has stated –

 “We have defined the rules of the game clearly and we do not intend to change them. Anyone trying to approach the fence is putting their lives at risk.” (vid link)

As I wrote in this post last Saturday, the current slow build of protest, that is due to climax on May 15th was not initiated by Hamas – incidentally, the duly elected and legitimate government of Gaza.

But then, when the aim is to demonise people and cast their actions as illegitimate, misguided or even terror related, then Hamas is a fairly convenient drum to bang.

At last week’s event, 15 people were shot dead by Israeli army snipers, some in the back, and over a thousand people were injured. Injuries included sniper rifle shots to the leg and the total number of gunshot wounds has been reported at over several hundred. I’d say subsequent media coverage has been scant given the magnitude of the violence meted out by the Israeli state. The current death toll for the past week stands at 21.

Headlines relating to Fridays planned event seem to be focusing on expected violence rather than the peaceful nature of the affair (eg – The Washington Post) . There also seems to be some suggestion of scandal that the government of Gaza is giving money to victims and their families by way of helping them through. “Compensation” is the word being bandied about on Israeli media. (I’m not even going to bother with the images designed to ‘help’ those “slow on the uptake”) All in all what we’re getting is a not so subtle insinuation that people turning up to express whatever sense of injustice they feel, are complicit in some dastardly terrorist related action against Israel, and that Hamas, not the Israeli state, is responsible for the deaths and injuries flowing from “The Great Return March”.

[Please note the policy regarding posting long screeds of linked text. Anyone who thinks participating in conversation or debate can be had by way of throwing link after link after link into the comments section with very little personal input, runs the very real prospect of attracting a hefty ban]

 

69 comments on “Gaza ”

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  1. adam 1
    6 April 2018 at 1:43 pm

    Isn’t that just newspeak from the Israeli defence minister?

    I’m worried that peaceful protest and a reaction by the state violence, is normal. With the armchair generals craving for their next wargasm lapping it up.

    • Chuck 1.1
      7 April 2018 at 4:40 pm

      “I’m worried that peaceful protest and a reaction by the state violence, is normal.”

      What peaceful protest?

      Hamas may not have wanted the protest to turn violent for their own reasons…but they have. It indicates Hamas is struggling to maintain its hold and influence over the Gaza Strip population.

  2. Siobhan 2
    6 April 2018 at 2:04 pm

    yeah, well, meantime our dear comrades at the Guardian bang on about Corbyn and his supposed love of anti semites, not to mention his insistence on hanging around with (apparently)the wrong sort of Jews….meantime stories around the very real horror of Israeli snipers shooting out the legs of 800 civilians is relegated to the bottom of the page…in fact yesterday’s top Israeli story in the Guardian was some kerfuffle over woman giving up seats on aeroplanes for hasidic elders…

    between all this and the ‘horror’ of the Russian spy poisoning that seems to have had the same effect as a bad case of salmonella poisoning; and Hilary only losing the election because of those facebook posts; and how secret meetings over coffee are more important than hospital buildings rotting into the ground…I’m really not enjoying this years news cycle one little bit..

  3. joe90 3
    6 April 2018 at 2:06 pm

    Damning admission, since deleted, by the IDF that the lethal shots that killed unarmed protesters were accurate, measured, and that they knew where every bullet landed.

    https://twitter.com/btselem/status/980042213718708224

    edit: this too

    https://www.btselem.org/firearms/20180404_why_soldiers_must_refuse_to_fire_at_unarmed_protesters

    • dukeofurl 3.1
      6 April 2018 at 3:06 pm

      Its completely shocking they have killed and wounded so many by snipers

      This is an image from Haaretz with the snipers lying behind an earth bank for their firing

      https://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.5977343.1522948127!/image/2209859597.jpg_gen/derivatives/size_1496xAuto/2209859597.jpg

      • Corrupt PM 3.1.1
        6 April 2018 at 5:44 pm

        What snipers? That is a photo of a standard infantry unit with standard infantry weapons. Nothing special about them.

        • reason 3.1.1.1
          8 April 2018 at 7:52 am

          Your full of zionist bullshit chuck ….

          “. A video from the first day of the march shows a protester being shot in the back by an Israeli sniper as he walks away from the fence separating Gaza from Israel. In other footage, Palestinians are killed or wounded as they pray, walk empty-handed towards the border fence, or simply hold up a Palestinian flag. All who get within 300 yards are labelled “instigators” by the Israeli army, whose soldiers have orders to shoot them.”

          http://www.unz.com/pcockburn/israel-has-faced-little-criticism-over-palestinian-deaths/

      • Et Tu Brute 3.1.2
        6 April 2018 at 5:47 pm

        Those aren’t sniper rifles. Those are standard issue assault rifles probably set to single shot for precision. Clearly an infantry squad taking up position.

        • dukeofurl 3.1.2.1
          6 April 2018 at 6:33 pm

          And those mostly obscured weapons are different to these NZ Army weapons how ?
          https://dueckdefense.com/new-nz-army-marksman-rifle/

          Deflecting based on something you cant see directly, when its clear the army was sniping at these unarmed people from quite a fair way away.

          • Exkiwiforces 3.1.2.1.1
            6 April 2018 at 6:56 pm

            The NZDF marksman rifle is a 7.62mm (.308) also it has a heavy barrel than your bog standard assault rifle and has a sniper scope to allow the marksman to shoot out to 800m or longer depending on the skill of the marksman and weather/ climate conditions as this can also effects the flight of the round. The marksman rifle is a modern day sup up version of the old SLR for those who remember from their CMT, National Service, TF and RF service.

          • Et Tu Brute 3.1.2.1.2
            6 April 2018 at 8:04 pm

            Not so much deflection as basic fact. They’re most likely M4 5.56mm (.223) as state below. It’s effective at just over half the distance as the NZ rifle shown above. Certainly not a sniper rifle. Way less efficient as that. On the other hand if things got really nasty they could empty one of those 30 round magazines in less than a second 🙂

            • Gabby 3.1.2.1.2.1
              6 April 2018 at 8:09 pm

              Regardless of the weapon, if they’re sneaking around shooting people from behind cover all surreptitious like, they’re sniping.

              • dukeofurl …
                6 April 2018 at 9:32 pm

                So they are shooting at non combatants from semi concealed location , up to 250m away. and thats not ‘sniping’ ??

                • McFlock …
                  7 April 2018 at 1:05 am

                  Nope.

                  It’s not ethical, it’s not fair, it’s not right, but it’s pretty basic shooting skills with a decent rifle.

                • Et Tu Brute …
                  7 April 2018 at 12:25 pm

                  Well it isn’t. If anything it is scarier. At least snipers acquire a target and fire with reasonable precision. These guys are there in case they have to blaze up a crowd or face a concerted attack.

            • Exkiwiforces 3.1.2.1.2.2
              6 April 2018 at 9:29 pm

              Yeah right mate, if they went auto at 200m they would lucky hit jack shit unless they were duck shooting and even then they would be lucky to anything.

              Auto is only good for bleaching into a room or bunker system (CQB) and closing on enemy defensive system and part from that a waste of ammo as well.

              • Et Tu Brute …
                7 April 2018 at 12:26 pm

                My point was less on what they should/could do, but on how the weapon really isn’t a sniper rifle.

            • reason 3.1.2.1.2.3
              6 April 2018 at 10:17 pm

              ET TU BRUTE …..When apartheid Israel soldiers are shooting hundreds of civilian refugees in the limbs . …. then things have already got really nasty …. you dofus brute

              Although in their thug history of nasty … this is one of their lesser crimes.

              Our media is censoring for their good guys myth

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ

      • Exkiwiforces 3.1.3
        6 April 2018 at 6:48 pm

        They are armed with a bog standard M4 5.56mm (.223) assault rifle.

        • reason 3.1.3.1
          6 April 2018 at 10:26 pm

          … being shot with one sounds bog standard nasty Exkiwiforces …

          A .22 to the knee-cap would not be shits n giggles either ….

          Bog standard Israel disregard for their own Untermensch perhaps ?

          They’ll kill anyone in the way of their apartheid Zionism

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpNHbZn8uI4

          • Exkiwiforces 3.1.3.1.1
            6 April 2018 at 11:02 pm

            Sure is my friend and you should see what a bog standard 7.62mm NATO or a 7.62x 39mm short does to the human body when you don’t have body armour on. A shotgun blast to the kneecap isn’t much fun either which was a party tick of Micks and Protestant Para- Military groups to teach informers and drug dealers etc a lesson.

            Should try at getting a SA-7 almost up your ass isn’t fun either btw.

            • reason 3.1.3.1.1.1
              7 April 2018 at 12:13 am

              I used to be into guns and shooting ………. but I grew out of it.

              I’ve owned a couple of 12 gauges .308 .303 .22 .

              I’m quite aware of the foot pounds sledge hammer destructiveness of them.

              I’ve made the point before that a NZ firearms owner has to be more carefull when shooting their firearm …. than a usa president shooting missiles from a drone ………….. after all have you ever heard of a NZ gun owner accidentally shooting up a wedding party ??.

              But the argument of caliber and positioning …. when Israel defense force soldiers shoot peaceful protestors ….. is a cold side issue.

              It’s murder and GBH your talking about.

              I doubt you’d be talking the same if it were your kid shot .

              I condemn it … and I hope you do to .

              • Exkiwiforces …
                7 April 2018 at 12:46 am

                I can’t really get my head around it atm that shooting an unarmed civilian is legal I mean WTF and I bet that if I try it or one of my squadies did it we would hanged, drawn and quartered amd that’s before I do jail time. It goes against the Laws of Arm Conflict, basic human rights etc etc.

                And the other fact is that IDF Army was shooting was into Gaza and again WTF the locals haven’t even got within spitting distance of the border for gods shake! It’s a hell of a way to piss the locals off even more.

                • reason …
                  7 April 2018 at 1:09 am

                  Now thats a bloody good post from yourself …. giving us a NZ armed services mans view point Exkiwiforces …

                  I’m not against your knowledge of weaponry …. sharing it in the context of the post you’ve just made is valuable imo.

                  Without your overall insights … it ends up going down the Et Tu Brute derail.

                  Good armed service personal like yourself are against war crimes … your information adds to our knowledge when we know that’s your starting point.

                  Thanks for your input .

  4. SPC 4
    6 April 2018 at 3:31 pm

    It reminds one of unarmed demonstrators in Damascus being shot years ago and is indicative of the same corrupt authoritarianism.

    It is always sad when a democracy is so damaged that it operates in such a way, and quite bizarre when only Turkey of all states offers up public condemnation. A nation, invading and occupying territory in Syria without the consent of the government in Damascus and killing unarmed civilians in and around Afrin.

    One wonders how they profiled the soldiers chosen to sniper shoot unarmed civilian protestors, no record of ever having ethical principles …

    • reason 4.1
      6 April 2018 at 10:55 pm

      If you watch “shock doctrine ” …. or Oliver Stones ‘Ukraine on fire’ …. you will see protestors being shot …. by the evil manipulators using the honest protestors . Around 37 minute mark https://off-guardian.org/2018/01/11/documentary-ukraine-on-fire-2016/

      How many Palestinian refugees in Syria SPC …. how many Iraq ones…. 1.2 – 1.5 million ?? Million

      How many refugees would NZ have to take for a similar ratio …

      Israel was behind the disappearance / elimination of Palestine ….

      and they are backing ISIS / Al quada in Syria…. with medical treatment among other things.

      Shooting protestors seems almost natural for the Israel ‘ defense’ force . … like stealing land…. which leads to protests.

      Very dangerous neighbors …. Zionists

  5. Beatie 5
    6 April 2018 at 5:09 pm

    This video has been blockd by Youtube in 28 countries .

    In it, Abby Martin (The Empire Files) interviews journalist Max Blumenthal on the current situation in Palestine and increasing Israeli militarism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlNn1v4_Uf0&bpctr=1522992728

  6. Tuppence Shrewsbury 6
    6 April 2018 at 5:23 pm

    A peaceful invasion of a foreign nation? Pull the other one.

    • Ed 6.1
      6 April 2018 at 5:29 pm

      No doubt you would have defended the Sharpeville massacre.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.1.1
        6 April 2018 at 10:04 pm

        Completely different situations Ed. So a pointless comment that ignores my point.

        There is no such thing as a peaceful invasion.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.1
          7 April 2018 at 1:22 am

          Of course there isn’t – and Israel is an invasion of Palestine.

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.1.1.1.1
            7 April 2018 at 2:47 pm

            That was met by forceful resistance and overcome by the Israeli’s, so Israel won that battle, which was against vocal anti semitic forces and then went no further unless attacked first. No it’s defending it’s borders. and fair enough too

            • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.1.1.1
              7 April 2018 at 7:41 pm

              Borders that should not exist. Borders that are an injustice because it has Palestinians paying for what the Germans did.

              So, Israel has no right to exist. It was, quite simply, the Western powers sweeping a problem under the rug and hoping it would go away.

              Well, it hasn’t and the injustice we perpetrated is still there and getting worse as we continue to support the injustice that we did.

            • reason 6.1.1.1.1.2
              8 April 2018 at 8:01 am

              Soldiers shooting un-armed civilian refugees is not a battle Tuppence Shrew

              Or maybe its the only kind of ‘battle’ you’d ever be brave enough to fight in ?.

              For a Israeli who tells the truth …. and knows far far more than you.

              You should listen to this good man …. who would recognize you for what you are ….. If you learn anything from him, it might stop you spewing violence endorsing racist zionist crap

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1NR5_ZiN-g

    • Corrupt PM 6.2
      6 April 2018 at 5:42 pm

      I personally think shooting over the border is always going to be a losing proposition for the Israelis and they would be better mining 200 meters on the inside of their border or simply wait for the fence to be breached and call in fire support and then refuse to allow any bodies to be reclaimed.

      • reason 6.2.1
        8 April 2018 at 8:19 am

        Corrupt PM ( propaganda messenger ?)

        “Zionist righteous indignation would be a lot more convincing if it wasn’t covered with so much crap. In response to an upcoming lecture planned in London where Dr. Azzam Tamimi and I are to speak at University College of London, UCL, the Jewish Chronicle came out with an article titled: “Jewish UCL students ‘horrified by anti-israeli event.” They never seem to be horrified by the reality Israel imposes on Palestinians. They are not horrified by the racist laws, the slow death by lack of water and medical care imposed on people in Gaza, they are not horrified by the bombing and killing of innocents, nor are they horrified by thousands of political prisoners tortured by Israeli secret police. What horrifies them is, apparently Dr. Tamimi and I pointing these things out.” https://mikopeled.com/

        “But its time to sweep away the Zionist myths and uncover the truth so that we may all finally live in peace. The myths I will address tonight are the three most common myths:
        1. The myth of 1948.
        2. The myth of the existential threat of 1967.
        3. The myth of the Jewish democracy”

        ” Palestine had bustling cities where commerce and trade were taking place, they had a middle class, they had judges and scholars and a rich political life and indeed they had culture and a unique identity that set them apart from the rest of the Arab world. What the Palestinians did not have, the one thing in which they did not invest was a military. And while they constituted the vast majority of the population, when the Jewish militias attacked, they were helpless.” https://mikopeled.com/category/the-generals-son-by-miko-peled/

        ” between the end of 1947 and the beginning of 1949 they destroyed close to 500 towns and villages and exiled close to 800,000 Palestinians who to this day are not permitted to return.”

    • SPC 6.3
      6 April 2018 at 7:04 pm

      Participating in the 1984 line that to protest their refugee status (and not give up hope of a right to return to live in Israel) is a form of invasion – a thought crime that requires profiling them as criminals to be killed.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.3.1
        6 April 2018 at 10:06 pm

        Protest all they want. This is an organised invasion though. Invasions are met with resistance.

        • SPC 6.3.1.1
          7 April 2018 at 8:35 am

          A baseless claim.

          This is murderous suppression of a protest because the optics of refugees living in tents standing behind a fence are not pleasing to the Israeli government.

          The protest – which is to last to May 15, is one designed to challenge the moving of the American embassy to Jerusalem on May 15.

          This very fact, and the related facts – the protestors are not armed or with means to get past the fence, shows how the world’s public are taken for fools by the Israeli government.

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.3.1.1.1
            7 April 2018 at 2:48 pm

            So this is isn’t an organised invasion? just a casual one designed to take a force of people through another nations protected border?

            Shows how easily hamas can dupe sympathetic anti americans

            • SPC 6.3.1.1.1.1
              7 April 2018 at 6:34 pm

              No it is not. There is a difference between an organised protest and an organised invasion.

              Given you pose criticism of Israeli policy as “anti-American”, it seems you conflate being pro American with being pro Israeli, as if they are one and the same.

              Peddling the us or them line formerly used to hook people into support for their PNAC military activism.

            • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1.1.1.2
              7 April 2018 at 7:44 pm

              The only invasion happening is that of Israel into Palestine.

    • Babayaga 6.4
      6 April 2018 at 7:43 pm

      ‘Peaceful’ and ‘Hamas’ do not fit together in the same sentence. There is video out now of the Palestinians ‘practising’ being shot for propaganda film. The whole thing is a choreographed propaganda excercise to engender sympathy for Palestinian terrorism.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.4.1
        7 April 2018 at 1:24 am

        Ah, you’re buying the Israeli propaganda hook, line and sinker I see.

        • Babayaga 6.4.1.1
          7 April 2018 at 6:34 am

          No, just observing more of the same crap we’ve seen from Hamas and their enablers so many times before.

          • Cinny 6.4.1.1.1
            7 April 2018 at 7:55 am

            Where do you get your news from re Israel and Palestine Babayaga?

            Control of the media narrative is critical to Bibi remaining in power. Hamas is the perfect scape goat to justify the gunning down of protestors.

            Among what will be most eye-opening for average Israelis who know little about the inner-workings of censorship is that an individual petty bureaucrat censor sits in every newsroom and TV news studio, and reviews all headlines and copy before publication or airing.

            https://www.mintpressnews.com/214245-2/214245/

            • dukeofurl 6.4.1.1.1.1
              7 April 2018 at 9:38 am

              Not just ‘traditional media’ based in Israel but even Twitter, who are based in US seemed to be under the Israeli censors thumbs.

              Silverstein told Salon:
              Twitter’s legal department contacted me via email on Aug. 2, saying that the Israeli State Attorney’s Office had informed the company that a Hebrew tweet I published on May 18 violated an Israeli gag order in the Becker case. The company asked if I would be willing to delete the tweet myself. I refused, asking them not to take any action in the matter until I could consult legal counsel. I argued that the tweet didn’t violate Twitter’s terms of service or U.S. law. The company, which is based in San Francisco, was under no obligation to impose Israeli law upon me based on what I posted to my feed.

              Twitter’s legal team wrote again two days later, saying that they’d decided to censor the tweet inside Israel.

              To avoid more slabs of info checkout the details and even extends into Facebook
              https://www.salon.com/2016/08/26/israels-war-on-open-discourse-state-censorship-now-reaches-into-international-news-sources-and-social-media/

            • Baba Yaga 6.4.1.1.1.2
              8 April 2018 at 11:47 pm

              “Where do you get your news from re Israel and Palestine Babayaga?”

              Probably from the same place you do. The Palestinians elected a terrorist organisation. Said terrorist organisation then sets about trying to destroy the legitimate nation of Israel, and continues to do so. This latest fracas is another attempt by Hamas to delegitimise Israel, as always using civilians as fodder. The Israeli’s warned what the consequences would be of protestors breaching the border. Israel follows through, and good luck to them.

  7. Et Tu Brute 7
    6 April 2018 at 5:45 pm

    I’m okay with it. Not the situation. Not with Israel. But from a simple project management point of view, how do you stop 50,000 peaceful protestors marching over your border. Disputable border or not. From the point of view of Israel, it is their border and their problem to deal with. I suppose there are less than lethal options (but mass use of those often become lethal), and potentially they could mobilize enough soldiers to use more restrained force if people got through, but then that’s a huge risk and likely to cause more casualties. I don’t exactly see Israel accepting the alternative and giving them ground and retreating, taking their civilians with them.

    • SPC 7.1
      6 April 2018 at 6:56 pm

      The answer is to shoot only when they cross the border/try to get past the fence and not before.

      • Et Tu Brute 7.1.1
        6 April 2018 at 7:57 pm

        Okay so shoot once they cross the border? Yeah that sounds like a good compromise.

    • Keepcalmcarryon 7.2
      6 April 2018 at 7:13 pm

      Tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannon?
      You are ok with lethal force on civilians?

      • Muttonbird 7.2.1
        6 April 2018 at 8:17 pm

        Exactly. There are several effective methods used in riot control which don’t involve weapons of war.

        Disgraceful comment from et u brute.

        • SPC 7.2.1.1
          7 April 2018 at 8:39 am

          Riot control methods used in streets are not effective in open ground across a wide area.

          Tear gas and sound weapons maybe.

        • Et Tu Brute 7.2.1.2
          7 April 2018 at 12:30 pm

          They used tear gas. I didn’t see water canon but I’m sure they’re there. After that it could be rubber bullets but you then need to fire more of those and the more you fire, the higher the chance of killing or seriously injuring someone. In total shooting a few of the most dangerous ones before things really explode is probably safer than hammering a huge crowd with tear gas, water cannons, sound weapons and rubber bullets. None of these less-than-lethal options are perfect and when used on a huge crowd can produce deadly results – and often to the most vulnerable. Hence the forward momentum of the crowd needs to be broken before it gets to that stage. And as SPC says, general riot control strategies don’t really work on open ground.

  8. Obtrectator 8
    6 April 2018 at 6:11 pm

    “Hamas – incidentally, the duly elected and legitimate government of Gaza”

    Please enlighten us, Bill – when did the Hamas government last submit itself to a free and fair electoral process?

    • dukeofurl 8.1
      6 April 2018 at 6:41 pm

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006

      Guess who was found to be meddling in that election.

      ‘ US House of Representatives passed H.Res. 575 (December 16, 2005), asserting that terrorist groups, like Hamas, should not be permitted to participate in Palestinian elections until such organizations “recognize Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state….

      • SPC 8.1.1
        6 April 2018 at 6:59 pm

        President Abbas should have had the same policy, the PA only existed because of a peace process – and until Hamas is/was part of that process it should not have been allowed/should not be alowed allowed to contest PA elections.

        Of course the US Congress and POTUS should say the same about Israeli elections – only parties supporting the two state peace process should be allowed to contest their elections.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1
          7 April 2018 at 7:50 pm

          President Abbas should have had the same policy, the PA only existed because of a peace process – and until Hamas is/was part of that process it should not have been allowed/should not be alowed allowed to contest PA elections.

          That is not up to us but the people of Palestine who have an internationally supported invasion to deal with.

          It is the US, UK and us who are guilty here. Not the Palestinians who are simply acting in self-defence.

    • Et Tu Brute 8.2
      6 April 2018 at 8:07 pm

      2006. And they won the election for all Palestine. So if any group was to claim to represent the people it’d be Hamas. Fatah lost that election yet still remains the recognized government of the West Bank.

  9. Gabby 9
    6 April 2018 at 8:01 pm

    It’s just as well the Egyptians allow free access to Gaza via their border, or Gaza would be royally screwed.

  11. Ric 11
    7 April 2018 at 9:51 am

    There is a protest today (Saturday) in Aotea square from 2pm to 3pm

    https://www.facebook.com/events/2054410934839160/

  12. Jenny 12
    8 April 2018 at 1:39 pm

    Water is life

    http://gucaravel.com/israel-cuts-off-water-supplies-gaza/

    The Zion-nazis version of genocide.

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  • Supporting better financial outcomes for Kiwis
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  • Trade relationship with China remains strong
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