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GCSB Bill opposition heats up

Written By: - Date published: 10:21 am, July 26th, 2013 - 122 comments
Categories: david cunliffe, david shearer, Deep stuff, democracy under attack, internet, labour - Tags: ,

GCSB mask

I attended the Auckland stop the GCSB Bill meeting last night and I was really impressed.  The turnout was huge.  Mt Albert War Memorial Hall was packed and there was a large number of people outside the hall and in the foyer.

The speakers were very good.  The meeting was chaired by the erudite and witty former High Court Judge Ted Thomas.  Very interesting contributions were made by Dame Anne Salmond, Dr Rodney Harrison, Kim Dotcom himself and Thomas Beagle.  Each of their contributions deserve to be seen in full and you can see the video here.

Some contributions stood out.  Dame Anne Salmond read out this principled and very relevant passage:

Here in New Zealand we often take our democratic freedoms for granted. We think they will always be there. We have a Bill of Rights which is supposed to protect our right to freedom of expression. What on earth could go wrong?

I have a different view. I believe what Thomas Jefferson said – that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. There are times when we have to stand up for our rights, and the rights of our neighbours and friends, and indeed the rights of people we totally disagree with, or else these rights will begin to erode away.

The passage is from a speech that John Key gave to the Press Club in 2007 about the Electoral Finance Bill.

She also made the wonderful comment that Members of Parliament are sent there to represent us, not rule us.

Dr Rodney Harrison thought that the intent of the bill may have been a desire by the Government to allow the Police and the SIS access to data gathered by Waihopai Base.

Thomas Beagle presented the most concise reason for opposing the law change, when they want to take away our rights they have to persuade us that they have a good justification to do so and they have not shown that they have that justification.

Kim Dotcom let a further piece of information drop and it will no doubt cause further discussion and debate although it appears that it may not be new news.  The SIS removed the red flag from his immigration file the day after John Key met a group of Hollywood Moguls.  Was a trap being laid relying on New Zealand’s extradition treaty with the United States?  Expect further revelations soon.

David Cunliffe was put on the spot and asked to state Labour’s position.  He said this:

Sometimes you have issues where you feel your ancestors fluttering around the ceiling, and the Labour party has a proud tradition of taking on evil and iniquitous legislation, whether it’s apartheid, or nuclear weapons, or other things of that nature.

Our leader has committed to a thorough review of this legislation.

And based upon what we have heard tonight, I personally and I’m sure my caucus colleagues, would be of the view that this legislation must not, will not and cannot stand.

Conspiracy theorists are saying that he was undermining David Shearer who was in the hall at the time.  They are wrong.  David Cunliffe was at the hall early and was seated at the front of the room.  David Shearer arrived late and when I left was in the foyer at the back.  Clearly Cunliffe did not see Shearer.

And in related developments the GCSB bill has been reported back with changes including the vaunted insertion of principles underpinning performance of the Bureau’s functions.  The only problem with them, as noted by Idiot Savant, is that they do not impose particular duties on the Director or any employee of the Bureau.  It appears that the principles are “nice to haves” and do not have any legal force.

Tomorrow protests are planned throughout the country.  As John Key said, it is time for us to stand up for our rights.

Details updated (thanks Weka)

GCSB protests

Stop the GCSB Bill

 

122 comments on “GCSB Bill opposition heats up”

  1. Richard Christie 1

    David Cunliffe was at the hall early and was seated at the front of the room. David Shearer arrived late and when I left was in the foyer at the back. Clearly Cunliffe did not see Shearer.

    Not indicative of a cohesive organisation though.
    Surely attending Labour MPs should of known that Shearer was to attend and should have had a prepared strategy for this eventuality.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1

      Surely Shearer should have led the opposition rather than just turning up to observe them.

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        Absolutely – if he actually opposes the GCSB bill, that is.

        And for those who say that Cunliffe taking the mike is the start of another leadership bid…that’s BS. He was a local MP talking to his constituents about an issue they raised serious concerns about. Period.

        • gobsmacked 1.1.1.1

          Text from leader to all MPs: “i will be at GCSB mtg tonite, will take Qs”.

          3 seconds, job done, coffee break.

          Can I be Shearer’s chief of staff please?

          • Arfamo 1.1.1.1.1

            Only if you promise to do the talking for him too.

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Let’s see what magic Fran Mold can work for Shearer in the next couple of months. Tick-tock-tick-tock.

              • Arfamo

                Nope. Time was up last night. We’ve had this discussion before. Monday. 🙂

                • Colonial Viper

                  😈

                • Jilly Bee

                  Tick-tock, tick-tock indeed, the leader’s interview on 3 News tonight did nothing to dispel my misgivings about DS’s abilities to be a capable leader of Labour or a PM in waiting.

        • King Kong 1.1.1.2

          How would you know?

        • Takere 1.1.1.3

          Oh but Dunk’n Gardner & Blubber Oil and Baby Bumface Gower have reliable sauces?! Tom Mato & K Chup! Desperate journo hacks that really need to watch RT & Al Jazeera TV to get some ideas for real news and how to report facts, think objectively and discuss issues before drawing conclusions?? Or is that too hard??

    • AmaKiwi 1.2

      Shearer’s plane was late. Plain and simple. That’s why Shearer was not at the front of the audience where Cunliffe was and that’s why Cunliffe did not know Shearer was in the back of the hall.

      You can check out the airplane arrival times.

      Or maybe the plane’s delay was a conspiracy organized by the Nats and carried out by the SIS.

  2. weka 2

    Nice write up micky, and great photo.

    btw, there are more protests happening than that list. A longer list is at the top of the FB page, maybe you could update the post?

    https://www.facebook.com/NotoGCSBBill

  3. karol 3

    Excellent report, micky. thanks.

    Dame Anne Slamond (note there’s a “d” on the end of her name), was excellent, as were all the speakers.

    I felt there was a contraction between Anne Salmond’s wonderful comment to remind John Key that,

    his is there to represent us, not to rule us

    and the lawyer saying that parliament is sovereign, and the only way we can get a government to change is position is via the parliamentary elections.

    It seems to me that this is a problem with our parliamentary system.

    • karol 3.1

      Ack – and it should be Salmond, not Slamond.

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

        did you mean “contradiction” instead of “contraction”?

        and the lawyer saying that parliament is sovereign, and the only way we can get a government to change is position is via the parliamentary elections.

        Of course, the way to get government to change position during a term is mass electoral pressure. See the Auckland rail link, as an example.

        • karol 3.1.1.1

          Yes. That, too, CV. Need an edit capability for my comments.

          Yes, public pressure helps, but it still leaves it to the government to make the ultimate decision.

      • mickysavage 3.1.2

        Eek. Have corrected thanks Karol.

    • tracey 3.2

      Karol… the alternatives are more frightening.

      its why strong and coherent opposition parties are crucial for the system to work.

    • dumrse 3.3

      Really ? You think you can change legislation whilst in opposition? It’s never going to happen.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 3.3.1

        😆 😆

        City Rail Link
        Mining on Schedule 4 land
        Anti-nuclear legislation

        this is a fun game, everyone can join in 😆 😆

      • karol 3.3.2

        I expect any government to take more notice of Kiwis’ input. Key’s government has been riding rough shod over democratic process – embedding clauses in legislation preventing a court challenge, abusing urgency, A LOT, over-riding the Bill of Rights, etc.

    • UglyTruth 3.4

      It seems to me that this is a problem with our parliamentary system.

      The notion that parliament is sovereign (in the sense of supreme power or authority) is atheistic. Atheism is central to parliament’s misrepresentation of the nature of the common law. Common law is closely related to the rule of law, which is what sets democracy apart from mob rule.

  4. Just do It 4

    Loot at the body language of Shearer. http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/25/live-video-stop-the-gcsb-bill-public-meeting-from-7pm/

    Arms folded, body stiff are a defensive signal. Shearer is uncomfortabel with the mixture of passion and intellectual insight that was evident. People like Shearer instinctivelly want to avoid engaging while the overall mood is highly charged. His preference would be to hold such discussions in a committee room.

    That is not how real politic happen. The people in that hall were looking for leadership when teh question 1 hr 15mins in was asked. Shearer failed to graps the opportunity. He twitched and shuffled. No amount of Fran Molds or Ian Frasiers can fix this.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 4.1

      +100

    • weka 4.2

      Except he was blocked in and it was probably easier to get the microphone to Cunliffe who was in the front row. The judge may not have even known Shearer was there, although the camera focussed on Shearer well before it needed to and obviously was expecting him to say something.

      And looking at the body language, Shearer did step forward in readiness to speak, but the mike was handed to Cunliffe. Not much he could have done about that. Probably just as well (having Shearer be wishy washy and perhaps booed or heckled would have been bad for the meeting).

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 4.2.1

        The time Shearer should have stepped forward was the time of his arrival. How many more episodes of poor judgement is this guy going to be allowed?

        • weka 4.2.1.1

          Of course. And I can’t wait until Labour does somethign about the whole sorry mess. But saying that Shearer should have levitated over the crowd to the mike is daft.

        • AmaKiwi 4.2.1.2

          I was there. It would not have worked. Shearer and Parker stood along the wall midway into the hall. It was a GOOD location. They could both be seen by a lot of people.

          They did the best they could under the circumstances.

          The only better strategy I can think of is if they had two people from Shearer’s LEC hold seats for them in the front row. When they finally arrived they could have sat in the front.

          • Huginn 4.2.1.2.1

            Thanks for this, AmaKiwi.
            These attempts to divert attention away from the GCSB Bill by talking up a Labour Party putsch out of incidental trivia are mischevous trolling.

            • Saarbo 4.2.1.2.1.1

              I don’t agree Huginn, this episode highlights Shearer’s lack of political instinct, which from a Left point of view is of more importance than the GCSB Bill, the strength of the leader of Labour is absolutely critical to the future hopes of Labour and the Left.

              Shearer could still have stepped up while Cunliffe was speaking, and added a statement after Cunliffe. He needs to take every opportunity to speak and get exposure in front of people, but he lacks confidence. Shearer can’t think on his feet, a major problem for him…I’m not looking forward to the Leader debates next year. I also notice that he often has Parker with him, to make up for his lack of business and economic nous I suspect.

              Shearer is leader of Labour not because he is the best person to do the job, but because he has some very powerful support in the Labour caucus, support that seem to have suspicious motives, they certainly don’t have Labour’s best interests at heart.

              • weka

                If Shearer had forced his way to speak after Cunliffe I would have been pissed off. This wasn’t a place for Labour to grandstand. A question was asked, Cunliffe answered it, most likely because he was closest to the mike. End of. There was no reason for Shearer to speak, and all his other faults in at other times have nothing to do with it – sometimes he is just not doing something wrong. His plane was late for christ sake, was that political incompetence too?

                • Arfamo

                  Agreed. Cunliffe did the job better than Shearer would’ve anyway. Pithy, on point, linked it to Labour’s history of opposing oppressive legislation, just the right pitch for the audience. Let it go till Monday.

                • Anne

                  This wasn’t a place for Labour to grandstand. A question was asked, Cunliffe answered it, most likely because he was closest to the mike.

                  Well said weka. That is exactly what happened.

                  It beggars belief how obsessed and even paranoid some people – and TV3 in particular – have become over the Labour leadership. I know the layout of the Mt Albert Memorial Hall extremely well. Back in the 70s and part of the 80s, I helped organise numerous large Labour Party functions there. If Shearer was standing at the back of that hall or even at the side of it, there is no way he could have made it to the microphone in less than 5 mins. – especially given the huge crowd that was present.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Agreed weka – Labour should not be afraid of demonstrating the talent of its team, without every competent showing by some Labour MP automatically considered a potential new leadership coup.

                  And as others have said – this was not the place for a partisan push; it would have been most unwelcome in fact.

                • Saarbo

                  No I don’t accept that. To get into power, Labour need to use every opportunity to grandstand, particularly ones where they have a lot of their wavering supporters attending. Labour are an important component in all of this, if they don’t get back into power in 2014 then this legislation sticks, like all of the other horrendous legislation National are putting through.

                  I was in a good position (Seating at the rear of the hall) to see most people and Shearer was no where to be seen. Not good enough, He’s the leader, he should have organised to have seats saved up the front with Cunliffe, he could have put a call through to cunliffe at the airport when he discovered his flight would be late, he needs to get fucken organised, think on his feet. He’s just too laid back, too casual.

                  “and all his other faults in at other times have nothing to do with it”

                  Well actually they do, because accumulated up they show he is simply not up to the job, too casual, lacks confidence, lacks brain power…simply not good enough!

              • AmaKiwi

                @ Saarbo

                I was there. Your idea would not have worked. The moderator, a retired SUPREME COURT JUDGE, was keeping a tight lid on the proceedings. The only way Cunliffe got to speak was because someone asked what was going to happen if Labour came to power. Without that question Cunliffe would not have gotten a word in without looking like he was grandstanding.

                Cunliffe was fortunate to get an opening. He grabbed it and rode it for as much as he could get out of it. Cunliffe did not know Shearer was in the hall because Shearer and Parker arrived late. Shearer did the best thing he could: today he announced Labour would act early in its term to hold a full review and repeal much of the GCSB bill.

                Let’s move on.

    • tracey 4.3

      Karol… the alternatives are more frightening.

      its why strong and coherent opposition parties are crucial for the system to work.

    • tracey 4.4

      It seems that shearers career is that of a diplomat trying to find middle ground and help opposing factions see a bigger picture to achieve a common goal. Our parliamentary system isnt ready for this kind of a leader . Voters seem to still want the winner loser, ends justify the means leaders.

      nzers are getting the country they should have known they would get with national. Labour was right in 2008 that we couldnt trust them… but nats lying was too slick and well presented. Not saying labour dont lie but it appears they want to lie about the same stuff as nats and the nats have that ground.

      • AmaKiwi 4.4.1

        I am afraid we all getting taken in by slick salespeople from time to time. Hopefully the people have finally learned.

    • tracey 4.5

      [Duplicate copy removed – MS]

  5. tracey 5

    Sorry for duplicates but keeps saying not published.

    please dont play into others hands by making this about shearer. Its about democratic freedom which is way bigger than impotent leader squabbles

    • Huginn 5.2

      +1, expect a lot of sock puppet action on TS as the National/Act black propoganda steps up to divert attention from this very damaging adventure with national security

      • karol 5.2.1

        And now it seems the MSM (3 News tonight) will pick up on queries about Shearer’s leadership here in The Standard comments, and use it to say further questions are being asked, rather than the bigger issues discussed in the meeting last night.

    • UglyTruth 5.3

      I agree that this isn’t about Shearer. But IMO it is about security rather than freedom.

      People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both. ~ Benjamin Franklin.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.3.1

        At a superficial level, but only if you buy into the argument that such totalitarian measures increase security. There is surely enough evidence that they do not.

  6. Veutoviper 6

    Well – finally – Shearer has stated a position on the GCSB Bill as to what will happen if Labour wins the election. Did last night force the issue?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10903651

    In brief:

    – repeal the legislation but not until an independent inquiry had been carried out

    – the inquiry would be one of the first things Labour would do after coming into government.

    • weka 6.1

      Yeah, that’s better. And fits nicely with the GP, who have been calling for an inquiry. Labour and the GP having such common ground on such an important issue going into the election is promising.

      However, I find that I don’ trust Shearer, and see plenty of room there for the left and NZ to get shafted, depending on the parameters of the inquiry and who is appointed to do it.

      Where Shearer says they can’t repeal until after the review, because it would leave the GCSB without legal guidance, is that true? I thought it was an ammendment not a new Act. Can it not just be put back to the way it is now (and then a full review of security done)?

      • Veutoviper 6.1.1

        Yes, I was also feeling better, but also don’t necessarily trust Shearer and cynically wonder whether we would have heard anything from Shearer today if Cunliffe had not stepped up to the plate last night.

        Stuff have finally got their act together and posted an article – “Labour: We’ll dump GCSB Bill”.

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8968737/Labour-We-ll-dump-GCSB-bill

        But, wait. What is missing from the Stuff article? Not one mention of Shearer!

        The article merely mentions “a Labour spokesman” ….

        (as an aside – not spokesperson, or spokeswoman)

        Cynicism is back.

        • Boadicea 6.1.1.1

          “The situation is at is has always been – Labour has committed to, when it gets in Government, to having a full and independent enquiry into the intelligence services . . . and any changes will flow out of that,” the spokesman said.

          That, to my way of thinking, is not a commitment to dump the legislation quickly. It is bureaucratic double-speak.

          *”independent” is also independent of the party and the caucus.
          *Shearer prevaricated last night. In his own electorate FFS!
          *GCSB is The biggest issue of the day.
          *A 400 person audience on his front door.
          *Leading opinion influencers.
          *And he didn’t have lines ready.
          *And he couldn’t think quickly on his feet.

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1

            *And he didn’t have lines ready.
            *And he couldn’t think quickly on his feet.

            Glad someone did.

  7. Olwyn 7

    I am more and more convinced that Shearer has been plonked into his role for two reasons, both arising from outside of the Labour Party. 1. To ensure that we don’t end up with a leader who refuses to sign the TPP, or who holds things up with too many quibbles, and 2. To change the culture of the Labour Party to fit in with a world in which a disenfranchised labour force is endlessly on the move, and only those from the middle class up vote. It is high time they took Anne Salmond’s words very very seriously; they are there to represent us, not to rule us.

    • weka 7.1

      Pretty hard to argue against what you are saying there Olwyn.

      KDC also said last night that the GCSB bill was in instruction handed from Washington.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 7.1.1

        …instructions from Washington…

        Now if that’s true, it raises an interesting question. As PM, if the American ambassador (or whoever) told me to spy on everyone because if I didn’t they were going to do it anyway, would I decide to at least try and retain some sort of local oversight or not?

        Do I doubt we have the resources to prevent them? Yep.
        Do I think public knowledge of that information would cause more harm than good? Um…
        If I tell the Americans “no”, apart from doing it anyway, what other steps will they take? Um…

        • weka 7.1.1.1

          If the US are going to do it anyway, they don’t need the GCSB bill passed to access that data. They need it for another reason or reasons. What’s the advantage to the US of the NZ govt having much broader spying powers on its own population?

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 7.1.1.1.1

            Public relations. Let the allies think they’re autonomous etc. etc.

            PS: make it easier for politicians to pretend they’re in control.

            PPS: that’s enough hypothetical speculation for one day 🙂

          • karol 7.1.1.1.2

            Broader powers, involve the widespread scooping up of all metadata, via GCSB/Echelon systems.

            That includes all emails, phone calls etc that pass through NZ, including communications between NZ and any other country, including the US. Any communication identified in the metadata sweep, can be accessed in full, via these Echelon systems.

          • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.3

            What’s the advantage to the US of the NZ govt having much broader spying powers on its own population?

            being a 2nd party intelligence partner to the US, the US tends to refrain from spying on NZers themselves. So it would be very helpful if the GCSB could fill in the gaps for them.

          • karol 7.1.1.1.4

            Look to the Kim Dotcom case. Why did the US need to have NZ intelligence and criminal justice systems involved? They apparently needed co-operation from NZ services to arrest KDC on NZ soil.

            • karol 7.1.1.1.4.1

              PS; GCSB is beyond public scrutiny, unlike the criminal justice system. Anything done by the spy services, the PM tends to say national security is at stake and he can’t reveal details..

              • Colonial Viper

                Secrecy and security classification used as a shield to hide undemocratic bad behaviour. Does a nation need to keep some secrets? Yes. But after say a 3 year period, an independent review should be permitted to release most details to the public.

          • yeshe 7.1.1.1.5

            Weka – how about the sole advantage and reason for this hasty and ugly bill is that all the things we fear within it have actually been going on against us for years .. now the panic is to make it all legal and proper before more of it comes out, urgent especially through Dotcom’s electrifying court appearances with an incisive and erudite judge and one of our best Queen’s Counsel.

            Waihopai, Himatangi etc have been running and delivering for years. This is why Key needed his school buddy running GCSB. It’s why he also needed a very GCSB-friendly Governor General .. think about it. Mateparae is potentially our only recourse if all else fails — and which side would he be on ? Very smelly.

            So why is Key in urgent panic now against the most august in the land ? I think it’s because if the truth comes out, he and his mates — not just toast but panko crumbs.

            And likewise, any price he had to pay to Dunne for his specious and poisonous little vote would have been worth it to Key.

            We should be very scared of where this ends if we cannot defeat it now.

            ( And a more positive afterword, it occurs to me this is very close the climate around the nuclear-free issue under Muldoon. The majority of the country wished for it, Muldoon was ignoring it. The courage of one back-bencher, the marvelous Marilyn Waring, crossed the floor to end the anti-democratic arrogance of that prime minister. Can we find such a one again ??)

            • Chooky 7.1.1.1.5.1

              +1

            • Arfamo 7.1.1.1.5.2

              The courage of one back-bencher, the marvelous Marilyn Waring, crossed the floor to end the anti-democratic arrogance of that prime minister. Can we find such a one again ??

              Nope. The best hope for that was Aaron Gilmore.

    • Chooky 7.2

      +1

  8. gobsmacked 8

    Here in New Zealand we often take our democratic freedoms for granted. We think they will always be there. We have a Bill of Rights which is supposed to protect our right to freedom of expression. What on earth could go wrong?

    I have a different view. I believe what Thomas Jefferson said – that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. There are times when we have to stand up for our rights, and the rights of our neighbours and friends, and indeed the rights of people we totally disagree with, or else these rights will begin to erode away.

    So where are the usual Key sycophants telling us why this is wrong?

    C’mon, you guys will disrupt any thread on any pretence, now you have a chance to be positive for once, to stand up for what you believe in.

    Are you honourable and reasonable enough to say … the bills’ opponents might just have a point?

    • gobsmacked 8.1

      And the invitation is still open …

    • AmaKiwi 8.2

      @ gobsmacked

      “So where are the usual Key sycophants telling us why this is wrong?”

      Maybe they realize the weapons of spying can be turned AGAINST THEM by a future Left government.

      Conservatives should be just as frightened as Lefties.

  9. Back up for the question I asked members of the panel at the anti-GCSB Bill public meeting last night – if they knew that private prosecutor Graham McCready, who has been successful in getting the DEFENDANT John Banks into Court, had also filed a private prosecution against Prime Minister John Key, for unlawful spying on Kim Dotcom?

    Here are the ‘Informations’ that Graham McCready has filed vs John Key in the Wellington District Court.

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=179

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright
    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  10. King Kong 10

    You know how you think this might be the thing?

    Its not.

    • gobsmacked 10.1

      @KK

      Please respond to my comment #8. Do you agree with the quote or not?

      • King Kong 10.1.1

        You could drop that quote into an argument about legalising dope therefore it is a bunch of bleeding heart faggotry.

        Must stand up for my democratic right not to have my terorist bomb plot foiled by spies.

        • Arfamo 10.1.1.1

          Translation: Bugger. I’d better say something really stupid again and hope it distracts you from my embarrassment about Key saying that and now getting caught out by his duplicity again.

          • King Kong 10.1.1.1.1

            Listen, the Press says that the recent changes made to the bill make it acceptable. The Herald says pretty good but just a couple of minor changes to go, yet you lot are talking like the Government has just legalised rape as a legitimate interogation technique for crime suspects.

            Its the massive hyperbole (demonstrated by cliched quotes about the crashing down of civil liberties) that makes the opposition to this bill look like a desperate political attack on the Governments popularity rather than any genuine legal concerns.

            You might think you are being clever but you really aren’t.

            • Arfamo 10.1.1.1.1.1

              You might think you are being clever but you really aren’t.

              I’ve had to cut the power to my irony detector before it clanged itself off the wall.

              • King Kong

                What kind of thickie needs an irony detector?

                • Arfamo

                  John Key.

                  • gobsmacked

                    KK, we’re trying to help you here.

                    Read the links in the original post before further embarrassment.

                    • King Kong

                      Looks like someones drunk the coolaid.

                    • gobsmacked

                      KK, do you really have no argument at all except the infantile? Do you have nothing at all with which to engage?

                      Did you oppose the EFA? If so, on what grounds?

                      Did you support Key’s 2007 speech? If so, on what grounds?

                      C’mon, you can be a grown-up when you want to. Debate and defend.

                    • King Kong

                      All of your righteous indignation aside, I will go back to my original point.

                      This isn’t it.

                      If you think this is going to bum fuck National like the EFA did Labour, then you are wrong. But don’t let that stop you crapping on about it.

            • yeshe 10.1.1.1.1.2

              KK .. they say petroleum jelly can be helpful removing either a finger or head stuck up one’s backside.

            • gobsmacked 10.1.1.1.1.3

              a desperate political attack on the Governments popularity

              by … David Rutherford, Marie Shroff, Anne Salmond, the Law Society, High Court judges, etc, etc …

              Why did they suddenly become “desperate”?

              • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                Everyone knows the Law Society is a cabal of slavering lefties – always on about “evidence” and “due process”. Fucking commies.

              • King Kong

                It is a well known fact that most of the people and institutions on that list are affiliates of Al Qaeda.

                • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                  That too.

                  • weka

                    Therefore we should take our democratic and legal guidance from the Press and the Herald.

                    • King Kong

                      Not at all. But it is a usefull yard stick with which to measure some of the hysteria that is going on here.

                    • gobsmacked

                      KK, you’ve made about 10 comments on here (and God knows how many on other threads) and yet you still can’t bring yourself to comment on the rights and wrongs of the issue.

                      Presumably you just can’t be bothered to read up on it. To have an informed opinion. To think.

                      You can’t defend the bill (you certainly haven’t tried to do so here), so you prefer not to think about it. It would be more honest if you just said so.

                    • weka

                      “But it is a usefull yard stick with which to measure some of the hysteria that is going on here.”

                      How?

                • tricledrown

                  KK pity Gscb i wasn’t around when Bernie Abbott was around!

            • Tim 10.1.1.1.1.4

              …… “Listen,” …….
              says it all really KK

            • AmaKiwi 10.1.1.1.1.5

              Make a note. When we get in power find out who this King Kong guy is and have the SIS take care of him.

              Still like this bill, Kong?

  11. tricledrown 11

    KK the right are getting worried by the backlash otherwise they wouldn’t be wasting time sending their lowlife apologists and bullies to troll on this site!

  12. Personally, I have a real problem with all those who purport to be opposed to ‘Nanny State’, who are not opposing this arguably far worse ‘BIG BROTHER STATE’ (on steroids)?

    Where are the Press Releases from the Libertarians, ACT on Campus and the like, opposing this proposed legislation, and supporting the upcoming rallies/marches around New Zealand tomorrow opposing the GCSB Bill, which is effectively being railroaded through Parliament with the slimmest possible majority?

    FYI – protests tomorrow, Saturday 27 July at 2pm, are being held in the following towns and cities around this supposed ‘democracy’ – New Zealand:

    I do hope to see all those Aucklanders who support the lawful rights of citizens to privacy, freedom of association and freedom of expression, and oppose arbitrary search and surveillance at Aotea Square, Auckland, 2pm.

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption/ anti-privatisation’ campaigner
    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    • AmaKiwi 12.1

      Well said, Penny.

      I am trying to make it clear to conservatives that this is just as much a threat to them.

      It’s like the old story about the Nazis: They came for the gypsies and I didn’t protest. They came for the Jews and I didn’t protest, etc.

      Would these Tories like to have these spying powers in the hands of a rampaging Left wing government?

  13. Sable 13

    If we had an entrenched Bill of Rights, this legislation would not see the light of day but we do not in spite of the efforts of Dr Geoffrey Palmer whilst in office. You can thank members of both National and Labour for that.

    I’m also less than impressed but not surprised by Labour’s less than emphatic renunciation of this travesty of a law. This is the main reason they lack support. Its not because Keys is winning hearts but Labour is instead turning people off politics by failing to offer a worthy alternative.

    My predication is this obscene law will pass and Labour will loose this election. I also predict we will eventually move into a similar position as that which exists in the UK where a alternative to Labour will be appear and pick up the voters that party has lost by moving too far to the right. Lets hope its sooner rather than later.

    • AmaKiwi 13.1

      I share your fear. That’s why I am sending out emails to everyone I know urging them to demonstrate tomorrow.

      After Saturday’s demonstration I will send hundreds more emails to my friends urging them to email National MPs demanding they represent the people and oppose this bill.

      I don’t know if it will work, but it’s worth trying. I will not go down without a fight.

  14. logie97 14

    Am I missing something here?

    On RNZ news at 5:00 this evening, “the MP who is in the centre of the leaking of the report is complaining that the enquiry went outside its brief…”

    This same MP, Dunne, is about to sign away on the surveillance powers of the same organisation.

    The man is a fool.

  15. karol 15

    Well, some good news about the MSM (I hope?). 3 News says it’ll be covering tomorrow’s demonstrations – so enough publicity has been generated to get their attention – hope it influences more people to go on the protests.

    • weka 15.1

      What was the 6 o’clock coverage like today Karol?

      • karol 15.1.1

        hey focused on Cunliffe speaking at the GCSB meeting, and used Jenny’s comment on TS, alleging that Shearer had yelled after Cunliffe spoke, as evidence of further dabte about Shearer’s leadership. They called Jenny’s comment a “pots”.

        They did show Cunliffe’s statements, and also the size of the meeting, plus some shots of Dotcom – some banners etc.

    • AmaKiwi 15.2

      Fantastic. Now everyone sign off The Standard and type an email and send it to every man, woman, and child in your address book urging them to come to tomorrow’s rallies.

      If we don’t turn out the numbers, our cause will be weakened.

  16. RedBaronCV 16

    Perhaps we should all revert to snail mail. Increase employment at the NZPO and the GCSB would have to sit there steaming them all open.

  17. AmaKiwi 17

    What can we do to stop the GCSB bill?

    I have sent at least 400 emails today, written and printed a leaflet for tomorrow’s rally, and spoken personally to a dozen or more people about tomorrow’s rally.

    That’s what WE need to do NOW.

    After tomorrow’s rallies let’s discuss our next plan of action. My plan is to get all my friends to flood National MPs with emails to delay the bill or represent us by having a genuine conscience vote.

    Aside from Cover-up Key, no National MPs stands to gain from this bill. There are no jobs for mates, no tax cuts for constituents, no public works projects . . . NOTHING.

    If we can arouse the public, I think we can still stop this bill. Less talk and more action.

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  • How to spot bogus science stories and read the news like a scientist
    Doug Specht, University of Westminster and Julio Gimenez, University of Westminster When fake news, misreporting and alternative facts are everywhere, reading the news can be a challenge. Not only is there plenty of misinformation about the coronavirus pandemic, climate change and other scientific topics floating around social media, you also ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Why New Zealand needs to continue decisive action to contain coronavirus
    Michael Baker, University of Otago and Nick Wilson, University of Otago With some of the toughest border restrictions and a newly-announced NZ$500 million boost to health services, New Zealand is among a small number of countries with a strategy to contain the COVID-19 pandemic. New Zealand is also fortunate in ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 weeks ago
  • Parliament and the pandemic II
    As expected, the government has introduced a sessional order to allow Parliament to operate during the pandemic. You can read it on the Order Paper here, but the short version is that questions and motions can be filed electronicly, select committees can work remotely, and the the Business Committee can ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • When a virus goes viral: pros and cons to the coronavirus spread on social media
    Axel Bruns, Queensland University of Technology; Daniel Angus, Queensland University of Technology; Timothy Graham, Queensland University of Technology, and Tobias R. Keller, Queensland University of Technology News and views about coronavirus has spread via social media in a way that no health emergency has done before. Platforms like Twitter, Facebook, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • How to survive 14 days of self-isolation
    So you’ve recently returned from overseas, come into contact with someone who tested positive, got a bit of a dry cough yourself or perhaps just want to self isolate for 14 days to avoid other people who might have COVID-19. Here are a few tips and tricks to help get ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Abortion Legislation Bill passes third reading
    Some fave speeches:     ...
    Boots TheoryBy Stephanie Rodgers
    2 weeks ago

  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
    The Government has tasked a group of industry leaders to seek out infrastructure projects that are ready to start as soon as the construction industry returns to normal to reduce the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones say. The Infrastructure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
    The Government is refining its COVID-19 essential business guidance to include the distribution of news publications for communities which are hard to reach. The Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media, Kris Faafoi, said the move was in recognition of the importance for New Zealanders who might be harder to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
    The Government has fast-tracked up to $1 million to help Air New Zealand move urgent freight to and from New Zealand, with the first flight to Shanghai leaving tonight, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says it’s crucial that trade in vital goods such as medical supplies and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • COVID-19 updates
    The Prime Minister is holding daily press conferences to update New Zealanders on the Government's response to COVID-19. Links to videos and transcripts of these updates below. These transcripts also include All of Government press conferences led by Director Ministry of Health's Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield. 25 March: Live update from the Prime ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
    People needing to travel on domestic flights, trains and Cook Strait ferries to get home before the country moves into level 4 lock-down tomorrow night will be able to continue using the passenger services until midnight on Friday, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Domestic passenger services, particularly ferries, have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand moves to COVID-19 Alert Level 3, then Level 4 in 48 hours
    New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 3 – Restrict New Zealand to move up to COVID-19 Alert Level 4 – Eliminate, in 48 hours Two-staged approach to give people and businesses time to prepare  Level 3, from tomorrow Non-essential businesses must close All events and gatherings must be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister: COVID-19 Alert Level increased
    Good afternoon  The Cabinet met this morning to discuss our next actions in the fight against COVID-19.  Like the rest of the world, we are facing the potential for devastating impacts from this virus. But, through decisive action, and through working together, do we have a small window to get ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt takes significant economic decisions as NZ readies for Alert Level 4 in COVID-19 fight
    The Government is announcing significant further support for the economy, workers and businesses as the country unites to prepare for Alert Level 4 in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet today agreed to remove the cap on the Government’s wage subsidy scheme, which will inject a further $4 billion into the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt backs RBNZ move to support economy with lower interest rates
    The Government is backing the Reserve Bank’s latest action to support the economy by reducing longer-term interest rates, meaning lower costs for businesses and mortgage holders, and a lower currency to help our exporters. The Minister of Finance has signed a memorandum of understanding and a letter of indemnity with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government statement on commercial cooperation during COVID-19
    The Government has asked the Commerce Commission to take account of the exceptional circumstances created by COVID-19 when monitoring business behaviour in coming weeks.   “The purpose of my request to the Commerce Commission is to make sure businesses can work together in ways that will allow them to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand temporarily closes diplomatic posts in Barbados and Myanmar due to COVID-19
    The New Zealand Government has temporarily closed its High Commission in Bridgetown, Barbados and its Embassy in Yangon, Myanmar due to the COVID-19 pandemic, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Due to the increasing scarcity of air links in and out of Bridgetown and Yangon, and the pressure COVID-19 is placing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supporting Māori communities and businesses through
    Associate Health and Whānau Ora Minister Peeni Henare has today announced the Government’s plan to support Māori communities and businesses in the face of COVID-19. “Our Government’s $12.1 billion economic package will help many Māori whānau, workers and businesses, whether it’s through wage subsidies, income support and worker redeployment, or ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Guidelines for hospitality establishments released
    The Government and the hospitality industry have worked together to produce guidelines to assist with managing and reducing transmission of COVID-19, Health Minister David Clark announced today.  The guidelines developed between the Government, Hospitality New Zealand and SkyCity Entertainment Group, set out how the new restrictions on physical distancing and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Nation steps up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2
    Four stage Alert System for COVID-19 announced New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2 – Reduce Contact New Zealanders over 70 and those with certain medical conditions told to stay at home as much as they can to reduce risk of contact with the virus Workplaces to implement ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • PM Address – Covid-19 Update
    Kia ora koutou katoa I’m speaking directly to all New Zealanders today to give you as much certainty and clarity as we can as we fight Covid-19. Over the past few weeks, the world has changed. And it has changed very quickly. In February it would have seemed unimaginable to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ and Singapore commit to keeping supply and trade links open, including on essential goods and med...
    New Zealand and Singapore have jointly committed to keep supply chains open and to remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the commitment. “This is an important collective response, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Joint Ministerial Statement by Singapore and New Zealand -Covid-19 situation
    JOINT MINISTERIAL STATEMENT BY SINGAPORE AND NEW ZEALAND AFFIRMING COMMITMENT TO ENSURING SUPPLY CHAIN CONNECTIVITY AMIDST THE COVID-19 SITUATION  The COVID-19 pandemic is a serious global crisis.  As part of our collective response to combat COVID-19, Singapore and New Zealand are committed to maintaining open and connected supply chains. We ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Transit between Australia and New Zealand
    Travel restrictions, closing our border to almost all travelers came into force from 23:59 on Thursday 19 March 2020 (NZDT).  All airlines were informed of these restrictions before they came into force. Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says “The transit of passengers between Australia and New Zealand has been agreed upon and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago