Good ideas in Gisborne

Written By: - Date published: 1:28 pm, February 17th, 2017 - 97 comments
Categories: Andrew Little, business, Economy, employment, housing, infrastructure, jobs, labour, manufacturing - Tags:

Andrew Little’s announcement yesterday in Gisborne of Labour’s pledge of up to $20million to build a prefabricated timber plant there is a much-needed boost to the area and a sign that Labour’s 100,000 new house pledge first made by David Shearer in 2012 has legs.

The Gisborne Herald says:

The factory would transform raw logs into building timber and framing to build houses for New Zealand, and infrastructure could include upgrades to the district’s transport systems. It would complement the existing Wood Engineering Technology plant constructed on the Prime Sawmill site by Eastland Community Trust, which this week launched a national search for a mill operator.

The investment would be the largest stimulus package from central government since the Labour government of the early 2000s pledged $30m over 10 years to develop Gisborne roads to support forestry harvests. As part of Labour’s regional development policy, the investment would seek to address unemployment and marry Gisborne’s wood assets with New Zealand’s housing shortage.

The Gisborne/Hawke’s Bay region has the highest unemployment rate in the country. Nearly one in five working-age adults in the Gisborne region are on benefits, at a cost of more than $80m a year, Labour says.

Looks like Labour has a good candidate too. Lawyer Kiritapu Allen says:

It was the move back to the Bay of Plenty that eventually made her want to get back into politics.Allan saw homelessness everywhere and a new sector in society – the working poor. There was also the influx and impacts of pseudoephedrine into the communities and home ownership rates had dropped massively.

“People were really just struggling to survive on the daily. The first time I ever saw a homeless person, I would have been about 13 on K Road. Now you see it everywhere. This isn’t actually the country I grew up in.

“I didn’t sign up to these values. You know, I grew up in a community where people were struggling and you would give them a hand up. Through giving them a hand up, you have also created an environment regionally, nationally, where once they get on their feet, they should be able to flourish and survive.”

Allan is determined to make the Bay a place that she wants to raise her children. She is in it for the long term. For that long term to be prosperous, she wants to help the Bay create an economic environment where as many people as possible can get jobs and take care of their needs.

The electorate needs bold thinking, she says. Which Allan believes she is up to.

Good to see bold thinking from the Labour Party and its candidate.

97 comments on “Good ideas in Gisborne ”

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  1. The decrypter 1
    17 February 2017 at 1:41 pm

    Was the announcement yesterday??

  2. Ad 2
    17 February 2017 at 1:45 pm

    Good red meat.
    Ticks all kinds of boxes at once.

  3. Draco T Bastard 3
    17 February 2017 at 2:37 pm

    One of the biggest strengths of the Gisborne region’s economy is timber, yet too many logs are being shipped straight offshore without jobs and value being created for locals.

    And that’s the problem right there.

    It’s easier and cheaper to simply export raw logs which still returns a reasonable profit to the owners but does nothing to develop the economy leaving the country dependent upon crude commodity exports.

    There’s a simple way to address this: Ban exports of raw resources.

    Do that and the economy will have to develop ways to process and utilise the resources that we have and our trade would become high value added products instead of low cost/low price commodities.

    • McFlock 3.1
      17 February 2017 at 4:00 pm

      aaaaand we end up in a trade war before we have substitute production up and running.

      Sometimes policies should be more nuanced than “ban it”.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1
        17 February 2017 at 4:57 pm

        A market system, is by definition, a trade war.

        • McFlock 3.1.1.1
          17 February 2017 at 5:04 pm

          more a trade police action

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1
            17 February 2017 at 7:15 pm

            The basic assumption of free-trade is: Willing buyer, willing seller

            If we’re not willing to sell our, and they are ours, resources under some conditions then that is within the bounds of free-trade.

            China was quite entitled to reduce its export of rare-earth metals. It was the EU and the US going to the WTO to force them to continue those exports that was wrong.

            • McFlock 3.1.1.1.1.1
              17 February 2017 at 7:38 pm

              Thing is, we’re not China. we don’t have a market supremacy in raw logs. But if we decided to ban exports in raw logs, maybe someone will be pissed at that and ban exports to us. Or our kiwifruit gets delayed for a month at a major overseas port. Or “contamination” is detected in our wine and it’s turned back from the border, or whatever. And kiss goodbye to any cabinetry or house framing exports to that region.

              People out of work. We don’t have anywhere to sell the logs or whatever we make from them.

              Not because there was a cabal creating an artificial shortage to damage its foreign policy competitors and therefore they went to international adjudication, but simply because Draco decided he didn’t like log exports one day.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                17 February 2017 at 7:52 pm

                But if we decided to ban exports in raw logs, maybe someone will be pissed at that and ban exports to us.

                I’m all for other nations putting in place bans on export of raw resources. Obviously, if it’s good for us then it’s good for them as well.

                Just think of how great it will be if all those cocoa exporting countries had to develop chocolate factories to export their cocoa.

                People out of work. We don’t have anywhere to sell the logs or whatever we make from them.

                That’s not really a problem. We educate them and develop other industries.

                That, too, is free-market.

                • McFlock …
                  17 February 2017 at 10:09 pm

                  So you’ve just fucked the Tiwai smelter workers, our food exporters, anyone who works with imported raw materials, bloody marvellous.

                  And in the lag time as the entire economy pivots – well, we just enjoy the great leap forward, I guess.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    18 February 2017 at 11:31 am

                    1. There’s a fairly large deposit of bauxite in the far north but it would require open cast mining to get. That said, Tiwai smelter has always been uneconomic which is why it’s always been subsidised. Most of the bauxite that the smelter uses comes from Australia so I’m pretty sure that they’ve got the capability to build a smelter. Probably already have one or two.
                    2. Our food exports are causing massive damage to the environment and are thus unsustainable. Although, proper re-use of the resources would minimise if not totally eliminate the need for those resources.
                    3. Those countries that are presently exporting those raw resources would have to develop the industry instead which would be good for them producing more jobs and, in many cases, actually developing their economy. Are you really sure that you only want NZers to have good, well paying jobs and not other nations?
                    4. I would, of course, phase the ban in over a period of time of around ten years.

                    As I’ve been saying for years: Any nation that’s capable of producing a product will not import that product indefinitely. They will develop that capability themselves if they want what’s best for their people.

                    Trade, in its present format, doesn’t bring wealth and happiness – it brings the exact opposite.

                    • McFlock …
                      18 February 2017 at 2:25 pm

                      Ten years? How generous.

                      Why do you think successive governments chose to subsidize it? Jobs.

                      Why don’t we currently mine the northland bauxite? Because it’s cheaper to mine and ship it from Australia.

                      Some of our food exports cause massive environmental damage. Others not so much.

                      Your little vision of self sufficient countries completely ignores geological, climactic and practical differences between nations, not to mention economies of scale. Those are why we need trade.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      18 February 2017 at 6:09 pm

                      Why do you think successive governments chose to subsidize it? Jobs.

                      But is that actually a good enough reason?

                      Why don’t we currently mine the northland bauxite? Because it’s cheaper to mine and ship it from Australia.

                      Is it though?

                      I’d say that strip mining in NZ is probably ‘cheaper’ as we have those marvellously lower wages that Blinglish was crowing on about.

                      Of course, the tech is the same, the skills are the same and the people doing it need the same care, food and housing.

                      So, is it really actually cheaper?

                      Some of our food exports cause massive environmental damage. Others not so much.

                      So, if we stopped all of the ones that caused environmental damage and started investing in cleaning up our land and waterways, how much farming would be left?

                      Your little vision of self sufficient countries completely ignores geological, climactic and practical differences between nations, not to mention economies of scale. Those are why we need trade.

                      And in that statement you ignore the similarities that minimises trade.

                      1. Every nation can grow cows for dairy and meat.
                      2. Every nation has the resources available to produce their own high tech.
                      3. Every nation has the people available to develop their own economy and culture.

                      Over the last few days people have been upset about the Cadbury closure while I’ve been wondering why we even make chocolate here. We don’t grow cocoa here after all (although we probably could do if we set up the correct artificial environment for it).

                      Would it really be so bad if we imported our chocolate already produced from the country that grew the cocoa?

                      On the other hand, would it really be so bad if we did grow the cocoa here for here?

                    • McFlock …
                      18 February 2017 at 11:27 pm

                      Jobs are a bloody good reason at the moment. We haven’t yet reached the golden age where robots do all the work and we all just sit around looking pretty.

                      I’m not overly familiar with the specific geological comparison between the different bauxite deposits, either in projected size or yield per cubic metre, but I do know enough to know that even strip mining has very different difficulties and costs from location to location. Indeed, I would be almost astonished if there were two mines anywhere in the globe that had identical geology, accessibility, and weather conditions so that they had the same cost profiles.

                      So every nation can grow cows. Yay. Well, the desert ones have a much lower yield per acre, but ok. Would cocoa grow in NZ? Interesting idea. The reason we have a wine industry is because people looked at Central Otago and it reminded them of some good grape areas. We might even be able to grow olives. Tobacco grows fine in Dunedin. Watermelons, not so much. But why should I buy local watermelons grown in an expensive artificial environment, when they can be shipped here from up north or aus and still be cheaper?

    • inspider 3.2
      17 February 2017 at 4:04 pm

      But if people overseas don’t want those exports you are going to have even more unemployment…. Id suggest that There is more chance of building a successful trade in manufactured products on the back of an existing raw material one, than doing so in a vacuum.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1
        17 February 2017 at 4:56 pm

        But if people overseas don’t want those exports you are going to have even more unemployment

        We manage to export the raw resources. How about we just export the products that the raw resources are used to produce?

        • inspider 3.2.1.1
          17 February 2017 at 5:14 pm

          Because successful exports require markets where people want to buy stuff from nz. You can’t just wave your magic wand and chant “exportiamus”. Nz is sadly not price competitive in sawn timber. We are not even competitive within nz when sawn timber costs 50% -75% more than Australia

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1.1
            17 February 2017 at 7:02 pm

            Because successful exports require markets where people want to buy stuff from nz.

            They’re already buying it from NZ.

            Nz is sadly not price competitive in sawn timber.

            If we used the same tech then we must be because all the inputs would be the same.

            Here’s the thing: Many of those countries that are ‘price competitive’ actually use lesser tech and therefore cost more because they use more labour.

            Their price competitiveness doesn’t come from being better – it comes from exchange rates that are way out of wack and lack of worker and environmental protections.

            Lesson: We cannot have ‘free-trade’ when things are so imbalanced.

            • BM 3.2.1.1.1.1
              17 February 2017 at 7:18 pm

              Pine is a fairly low-grade timber product, hard to add value to it.

              Boxing timber and pulp seem to be it’s main usage

              • Draco T Bastard …
                17 February 2017 at 7:45 pm

                What are we exporting it for?

                I mean, if it’s such a low quality product then obviously no one wants it or the products made from it right?

                Products like tables and chairs. Kitset houses and garages.

                Obviously no one wants those things.

              • Muttonbird …
                17 February 2017 at 11:40 pm

                Idiot. All framing timber is pine, no?

          • KJT 3.2.1.1.2
            17 February 2017 at 10:30 pm

            It is the same timber. Milled in New Zealand costing less in Australia.

  4. Leftie 4
    17 February 2017 at 2:44 pm

    Excellent!! This is a very good plan from Labour.

    • The decrypter 4.1
      17 February 2017 at 3:08 pm

      Sure is, Starting to interlock and tie in, with benefits, provincial NZ gets to put into labours housing crisis solution. Methinks double dipper and his mates are in for a busy year fighting more fires than the present Christchurch one. Pressure, pressure . Great tactics and logic employed here.

  5. Draco T Bastard 5
    17 February 2017 at 3:09 pm

    I’m in favour of the general policy here. They should be doing similar for other regions and other industries. And one thing that they should be doing is addressing our dependence upon raw commodity exports.

    • red-blooded 5.1
      18 February 2017 at 11:52 am

      Draco, they ARE announcing similar plans for other regions and industries. The announcement of the support for a digital games hub in Dunedin is an obvious example. Different industries in different areas to suit their different strengths. This is strong thinking from Labour.

  6. Sanctuary 6
    17 February 2017 at 3:47 pm

    Winner policy.

    • inspider 6.1
      17 February 2017 at 4:21 pm

      Really? More than 40 sawmills have closed in the last decade and in the last couple of years significant prefab house makers have collapsed including eHomes and ABT.

      You really think Labour knows best?

      A recent BIFNZ report said scale, transport costs and high start up costs are big barriers in NZ. Can’t see a plant in Gisborne solving two of those.

      • BM 6.1.1
        17 February 2017 at 5:39 pm

        Yep more policy dreamed up by desk jockeys.

        The people writing Labour policy need to get away from the keyboard and actually talk to the people who are at the coal face.

        (Saw your warning Blog Mum, will try harder.)

      • McFlock 6.1.2
        17 February 2017 at 5:46 pm

        If you insist on viewing every policy decision in a vaccum, you’d be right.

        But scale? Well, decent housing policy would change that.

        Transport? Something otherthan holiday highways might be useful.

        Maybe you’d better expand your perspective.

        • BM 6.1.2.1
          17 February 2017 at 6:02 pm

          If Labour can come up with innovative policy around getting more tradespeople on deck I’d swing in behind them, because that’s is the key to getting houses built.

          You can have the land, the materials, but if you’ve got no one to put it together, you’re going nowhere.

          That’s the key to the housing shortage in NZ, I’d like to see what Labours come up with for that because everything else is window dressing.

          • McFlock 6.1.2.1.1
            17 February 2017 at 6:10 pm

            And if they’d just announced a plan to get the people via apprenticeships/fast track training, we’d still need the material.

            • BM 6.1.2.1.1.1
              17 February 2017 at 6:15 pm

              What about in the short term?, apprentices aren’t worth shit for at least a 2-3 years.

              • McFlock …
                17 February 2017 at 6:38 pm

                lol

                Oh, I’m sorry, you reckon there’s an overnight fix for a housing problem that’s grown over decades?

                Not that I have any idea about the specifics of what policies Labour has yet to announce, anyway.

                ISTR last election’s kiwibuild policy had projected minimal impact for the first couple of years, too. Even if they’d announced that they would import builders, there’d still be a delay while we ensured they were actually competent builders.

                But either way, my point was that you took an announcement about a policy project to built materials, and criticised it because it didn’t address levels of trained staff. Well, if they’d just announced a plan to address the levels of trained staff, that wouldn’t address the materials problem.

                And if they do both, there’s still the land issue thta you’ll no doubt helpfully focus on.

                I mean, I know you’re desperate for the details so you can get your mates to copy the policy in a weak and vapid way and pretend it’s a massive announcement and all your own work, but you’ll just have to wait like the rest of us.

                That’s what happens when a party and its likely coalition partners have an integrated policy manifesto, rather than a hurried collection of stand-alone crisis mitigation announcements cobbled together by the week’s focus group.

                • BM …
                  17 February 2017 at 7:04 pm

                  Oh, I’m sorry, you reckon there’s an overnight fix for a housing problem that’s grown over decades?

                  That’s the way the left’s been pitching it, obviously full of shit then and trying to pull a swifty on the voting public.

                  • lprent …
                    17 February 2017 at 7:26 pm

                    Yep. It is pretty frigging easy.

                    Cut migration until we catch up on housing and infrastructure. Then throw state money at building lower end housing stock as social housing. It pays for itself in the reduced social costs in everything from health to prisons. At the same time put a capital gains tax in place that is actually effective. Not like the piece of crap that Muldoon stuck in as wallpaper back in the 1980s.

                    Of course the first would fracture the unsustainable ‘recovery’ that is a figment of National’s short term thinking.

                  • McFlock …
                    17 February 2017 at 7:27 pm

                    Oh, bullshit.

                    Obviously you failed at shitting on the policy, so now you’re churning out a tone argument?

                    All they’ve been pitching is that they’ll actually try to fix the various problems NZ faces (the ones the nats have ignored for nine years and counting) as fast as possible.

                    Labour were quite clear about their timeframe last time, even though you bastards said the schedule was impossible (right up until the nats announced a diluted version of the same policy that seems to have had little to no action).

                    Bring kellyanne conway over here, she can bullshit better than you.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2.1.2
            17 February 2017 at 7:39 pm

            If Labour can come up with innovative policy around getting more tradespeople on deck I’d swing in behind them, because that’s is the key to getting houses built.

            No it’s not.

            The key to getting more houses built is better technology.

            You can have the land, the materials, but if you’ve got no one to put it together, you’re going nowhere.

            That’s what R&D is for – so that you don’t need people to put these things together.

            That’s the key to the housing shortage in NZ

            Nope. As above, they key is better technology.

          • Craig H 6.1.2.1.3
            17 February 2017 at 8:45 pm

            One relevant Labour policy is that employers who take on apprentices will be eligible for subsidies of the same amount as the dole would have cost.

          • gsays 6.1.2.1.4
            17 February 2017 at 10:56 pm

            hi bm,
            “If Labour can come up with innovative policy around getting more tradespeople on deck I’d swing in behind them, because that’s is the key to getting houses built.”

            like if an earthquake struck a big city, causing major damage, needing a rebuild,
            you could use that oppurtunity to employ lots of aotearoa youth and train them up…
            or just award the rebuild contract to one company and have them get temporary staff from overseas coz that is what is good for the bottom line.

            tory scum.

            • RedBaronCV 6.1.2.1.4.1
              18 February 2017 at 10:20 am

              Totally agree – Nact missed the opportunity big time in Christchurch. They should have set up a large apprentice cohort with Fletcher’s or some one administering them and then sent them out for practical experience with all the experienced builders and other tradies that went to Christchurch. We would now 6-7 years later have trained tradesmen to cover the retiring boomers.
              We still have a small window open as the boomer tradesmen are starting to wear out _ but they still have a voice – so they could train up a new cohort .
              Love to see this type of scheme attached to the house building plant & other regional development initiatives

              • gsays …
                18 February 2017 at 5:15 pm

                to do this^, we need a reigime that put people before profits.

                • RedBaronCV …
                  19 February 2017 at 10:31 am

                  Actually this sort of stuff makes good economic sense as well, if one takes a wider view, for a country because it gives locals jobs & training cuts back unemployment etc etc. and can be budgeted for as a fairly limited output stopping a lot of downstream costs.

                  The RW economic model is totally individually based “me me me ” not a community based one.

  7. McFlock 7
    17 February 2017 at 4:05 pm

    Fine idea.
    These regional development announcements are showing that Labour’s done some solid work and has a genuine interest outside auckland and wellington.

  8. One Anonymous Bloke 8
    17 February 2017 at 4:18 pm

    This just in from the office of the Prime Dipper.

    But, but, the market says that building enough houses is impossible, and if you expose the market’s failure, the market will be angry, and fall on our heads! Stop it! In any case I have announced a much better version of the policy early next week.

  9. Ethica 9
    17 February 2017 at 7:48 pm

    Did the announcement include fixing the railway line? Would cost only a fraction of road development. Just imagine also having a passenger train service up to there again.

  10. Antoine 10
    17 February 2017 at 10:07 pm

    Is he going to go round all the provinces and announce $20M of pork in each one??

    Sounds like corporate welfare to me, Stephen Joyce would be proud.

    A.

    • Leftie 10.1
      17 February 2017 at 10:31 pm

      Sour grapes, A?

      • Antoine 10.1.1
        17 February 2017 at 10:40 pm

        I will wait till I see what bribe my province gets before I form a view.

        Some bridges might be nice!

        :p

        A.

        • red-blooded 10.1.1.1
          18 February 2017 at 11:59 am

          So, if giving support to industries in the regions and employers who train people is a “bribe”, what was the Holiday Highway?

          Labour’s announcing plans to help give NZers decent lives. That includes encouraging employment and developing basic infrastructure like our housing stock. That sounds pretty good to me.

          • Antoine 10.1.1.1.1
            18 February 2017 at 12:07 pm

            > what was the Holiday Highway?

            A really big bribe!

            A.

            • Leftie 10.1.1.1.1.1
              18 February 2017 at 1:15 pm

              Did you get the point of Red-Blooded’s post though?

              • Antoine …
                18 February 2017 at 1:22 pm

                Broadly yes. If Labour’s plans are to his liking then I am happy for him 🙂

                A.

                • red-blooded …
                  18 February 2017 at 1:52 pm

                  Hey, Antoine, two points:
                  a) If you got the point of my comment, then you now realise that a workable regional development and employment strategy is not a bribe – it’s one of the responsibilities of a competent government, and
                  b) We’re not all males, you know. (Just thought I’d mention it.)

                  • Antoine …
                    19 February 2017 at 9:28 am

                    (a) I got the point of the comment but did not agree, This is a bribe in my book
                    (b) Sorry, no offense intended

  11. lloyd 11
    17 February 2017 at 10:48 pm

    If money is invested in activities that generate wealth across the whole community, is it pork barrel economics or is it common sense?

    • Antoine 11.1
      17 February 2017 at 11:28 pm

      If the sawmill invest their own money, it’s common sense. If they get Government money, it’s pork barrel.

      A.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1
        18 February 2017 at 12:51 pm

        The problem is that the private capital isn’t investing – it’s lobbying government for lower wages and lower working conditions so that they can compete with (apparently) cheaper offshore labour rather than building up a better technological edge.

        Labour are actually promising to do what put the US ahead technologically – they’re going to build the infrastructure and even some industrial plant that will boost productivity.

        Now we need the massive boost in R&D to go with it.

  12. Michael 12
    17 February 2017 at 11:28 pm

    Is Labour’s burst of generosity to the people (and business owners) of Gisborne conditional on the money getting handed over, “over time” and “as conditions allow”, as it is with its public health policy?

  13. Antoine 13
    17 February 2017 at 11:28 pm

    Hey, this is a bit like Think Big except the amounts of money involved are a lot smaller. Can we call it Think Little?

    A.

  14. Cinny 14
    18 February 2017 at 12:21 am

    I’d rather tax payer money be spent on a ‘good idea for Gisborne’ than bailing out a failing private company.

    I think it’s a fantastic idea, for a part of NZ with huge potential.
    Employment opportunities, training and learning new skills, utilising local resources. And, if there is talk of fixing the rail line, what a bonus for the region.

    What has Anne Tolley done for the East Coast? Something? Anything?
    She’s been the MP there for over ten years.

  15. RedBaronCV 15
    18 February 2017 at 10:24 am

    Or the sodding great amounts we spend on unemployment benefit or housing supplements.
    See it as seed capital to help the region help itself. It’s tiny
    The left also need a plan to stop the successful outcome being flogged off to private enterprise by some other right wing government.

    • Antoine 15.1
      18 February 2017 at 11:06 am

      > The left also need a plan to stop the successful outcome being flogged off to private enterprise

      It would be private enterprise from the get go won’t it? I thought the Government was simply gifting the $20M to the wood processor.

      A.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1.1
        18 February 2017 at 2:20 pm

        If your other “contributions” are anything to go by, you arrived at that conclusion by thinking it.

        Perhaps a dictionary might help. Pay particular attention to the meaning of the word “investment”, and how it differs from the meaning of the word “gift”.

        • Antoine 15.1.1.1
          18 February 2017 at 10:48 pm

          I think they are using the word ‘investment’ in the general sense of ‘something that does good to the local economy in the long term’ rather than suggesting that the Government will retain a stake. Does anyone else know which is meant?

          A.

          • McFlock 15.1.1.1.1
            18 February 2017 at 11:57 pm

            On what do you base that thought?

            • Antoine 15.1.1.1.1.1
              19 February 2017 at 1:17 am

              (a) this seems analogous to the Dunedin games hub (http://www.labour.org.nz/digital_plan_to_unlock_dunedin_s_potential) which seemed to be an outright gift
              (b) there is nothing in the article about what rate of return the Crown would expect, leading me to think that it wouldn’t expect any
              (c) there is nothing in the article about how the Crown would manage any ongoing interest in the plant, leading me to think that it wouldn’t have any.

              … does some more research …

              On the other hand, when Cunliffe originally announced the Regional Development Fund (which is the vehicle intended to fund both projects as well as the hypothetical Palmerston North inland port), he did say that “The Regional Development Fund won’t need to make a commercial rate of return on its investments and will be able to take into account a wider array of benefits and operate with a longer-term perspective than a purely commercial investor can”. This statement does suggest that some returns would be expected so maybe I was wrong in thinking the money would be an outright gift.

              Anyway, happy to be corrected if anyone has actual facts about Little’s intention in this regard.

              FWIW I would prefer the money was simply gifted (in return for the construction of the plant) rather than the Govt retaining equity, as holding equity would presumably make the Govt liable for any ongoing operating losses. Whatever involvement the Govt had in the management of the plant would also be a distraction from the core business of governing the country.

              (A bit like charter schools, which seem to be taking up the Natl Govt’s attention, much out of proportion to their actual value. It is a black eye for the Natl Govt when a charter school fails, just as it would be for the Labour-led govt if the proposed furniture plant went under…)

              A.

              • McFlock …
                19 February 2017 at 1:28 am

                Ok, so B and C give you no basis for your belief, and A is you assuming that a university chair and a business incubator are the same as investing in a wood framing plant. Where the wood framing thing is called an “investment”, the word “investment” does not even appear in the link you gave to the Dunedin announcement, so why would you assume they are the same sort of thing?

                Anyway, it’s a wood framing plant, not a furniture plant.

                You might prefer an outright gift, but I figure the core business of government is the welfare of the people. You might disagree.

                • Antoine …
                  19 February 2017 at 2:33 am

                  On the balance of probabilities I think you are right that there would be some expectation of returns. We are both speculating though.

                  > I figure the core business of government is the welfare of the people

                  An incoming Labour-led Cabinet would be inexperienced, would have limited time and energy, and would only be able to get a limited number of things done. I’d rather they spent their time trying to fix NZ’s education and welfare systems, than trying to figure out how to manage their share of a small wood framing plant in the wop wops.

                  A.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    19 February 2017 at 7:46 am

                    Your “speculation” is that the word “investment” has no meaning. As I said, spotting the pattern in your comments is child’s play.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    19 February 2017 at 10:55 am

                    An incoming Labour-led Cabinet would be inexperienced, would have limited time and energy, and would only be able to get a limited number of things done.

                    Not as inexperienced as some of the business manager out there – and I’m including ones that have been in business for decades.

                    The problem with business is that its focus is far too narrow and thus they’re incapable of doing anything that is good for the country.

                    I’d rather they spent their time trying to fix NZ’s education and welfare systems, than trying to figure out how to manage their share of a small wood framing plant in the wop wops.

                    I’d say that it’s the same thing.

                    And why do you insult those that live outside of a main centre?

                  • McFlock …
                    20 February 2017 at 10:52 am

                    Even an incoming Labour government would know the difference between being a shareholder and being a manager.

                    If that is the structure of the investment. Which is pure conjecture at this stage, apparently…

              • red-blooded …
                19 February 2017 at 1:12 pm

                Antoine, how is setting up a Chair in digital gaming at Otago University (a public institution) a “gift” to any private company or individual(s)? The public institution retains control over the investment. Yes, it will benefit anyone who wants to set up or run a gaming company here in Dunedin, but I sure as hell don’t have a problem with that!

                • Antoine …
                  19 February 2017 at 1:29 pm

                  I was using ‘gift’ in the sense of giving money and expecting no return, as opposed to ‘investment’ in the sense where a commercial return to the giver is expected. Clearly the Chair is the former of these.

                  A.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    19 February 2017 at 1:55 pm

                    …expecting no return…

                    The expectation is that investment in education leads to a significant return: a more highly skilled workforce.

                    These are very simple concepts that have been around for many centuries. Are you new to politics?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.2
      18 February 2017 at 2:25 pm

      Nationalise two going concerns for every privatisation; make it clear that theft and greed will be punished. They’ll soon learn.

      • Antoine 15.2.1
        18 February 2017 at 10:48 pm

        Buzz off back to Soviet Russia

        A.

        • McFlock 15.2.1.1
          19 February 2017 at 1:30 am

          Fair enough. Nationalise everything then

          • Antoine 15.2.1.1.1
            19 February 2017 at 2:34 am

            Good luck with that

            What has Little ever said to suggest he has any appetite for nationalisation?

            A.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 15.2.1.1.1.1
              19 February 2017 at 10:05 am

              Pouring cold water on the bonfire of right wing politics, on the other hand, he probably has an appetite for that.

              Peters has previously threatened to re-acquire our stolen goods at cost. You can describe Winston as many things: “Communist” isn’t one of them. You’re missing the punitive aspect of the idea.

              Basically, if you make a deal with the National Party at New Zealand’s expense, you get what’s coming to you.

              • Antoine …
                19 February 2017 at 10:41 am

                > if you make a deal with the National Party at New Zealand’s expense, you get what’s coming to you.

                I see you like that idea, but I don’t see the connection with reality.

                Has any previous Labour Government punished anyone for making deals with the National party? Has Little ever said he would do that?

                Peters will say anything of course

                A.

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  • Bernard's pick 'n' mix of the news links at 6:06 am
    The top six news links I’ve seen elsewhere in the last 24 hours as of 6:06 am on Wednesday, April 17 are:Must read: Secrecy shrouds which projects might be fast-tracked RNZ Farah HancockScoop: Revealed: Luxon has seven staffers working on social media content - partly paid for by taxpayer Newshub ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Fighting poverty on the holiday highway
    Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago

  • Bernard's six-stack of substacks at 6:26 pm
    Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago

  • At a glance – Is the science settled?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    4 days ago

  • Apposite Quotations.
    How Long Is Long Enough? Gaza under Israeli bombardment, July 2014. This posting is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    Bowalley Road
    4 days ago

  • What’s a life worth now?
    You're in the mall when you hear it: some kind of popping sound in the distance, kids with fireworks, maybe. But then a moment of eerie stillness is followed by more of the fireworks sound and there’s also screaming and shrieking and now here come people running for their lives.Does ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • Howling at the Moon
    Karl du Fresne writes –  There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Newshub is Dead.
    I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • Seymour is chuffed about cutting early-learning red tape – but we hear, too, that Jones has loose...
    Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Will politicians let democracy die in the darkness?
    Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago

  • PM’s South East Asia mission does the business
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago

  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
    New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago

  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
    The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Judicial appointments announced
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
    Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa.  The summit is co-hosted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
    A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.    “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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