web analytics

Greenpeace got themselves a bigger boat…

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 2nd, 2017 - 59 comments
Categories: climate change, energy, Environment - Tags: , , , ,

THE PEOPLE VS OIL

After confronting Statoil and Chevron seismic blasting 50 nautical miles off the Wairarapa coast in small inflatable boats, we put out a call to New Zealanders to help us buy a bigger boat. The response was phenomenal. Within seven days we’d crowdfunded nearly $100,000 and bought a boat! As the newest member of the Greenpeace fleet, it’s got its rainbow stripes, and a new name chosen by you.

Soon we plan to head out again and continue our protest against climate-wrecking oil exploration. Stay with us.

Welcome the MV Taitu.

Taitu is a verb meaning to hinder, impede, deter, and thwart an enemy. As a name for a boat it references the sea (Tai) and Tu means standing, strength, warrior spirit.

More on the name and history here.

 

 

The pre-naming ceremony speeches (video above) were from,

  • Greenpeace NZ Board Chairperson Stephanie Mills on the name and naming process
  • Grant Robertson for Labour
  • Iona Pannett for the Wellington City Council
  • Greenpeace climate campaigner and sailor Kate Simcock on the nautical and non-violence history of Greenpeace including the parallels between our nuclear-free history and climate action
  • Climate activist and Greenpeace supporter Lucy Lawless
  • Greenpeace Executive Director Russell Norman on the oil and coal industry in crisis and the local campaign.

Kate Simcock,

… [the Vega’s] peaceful mission was to protest French nuclear atmospheric testing at the Mururoa Atoll in the Pacific. And so Greenpeace NZ began 44 years ago, with the voyage of a boat. The Vega sailed again in 1973 and in that protest was joined by two NZ navy frigates, the Otago and the Canterbury, which were also on a mission to bear witness on behalf of the NZ government in a peaceful protest against French Nuclear testing.

When Prime Minister Norman Kirk farewelled the crew of the Otago, he said to the crew “Yours is an honourable mission with the power to bring alive the conscience of the world”.

When we painted the rainbow on the side of Taitu… the rainbow symbol reminds us there is hope inherent in action.

Together we ended nuclear testing in the Pacific, and together we can rise up and end the oil age, and together we have the power to bring alive the conscience of the world.

We can follow the MV Taitu on twitter, Facebook, and the Greenpeace Taitu page.

59 comments on “Greenpeace got themselves a bigger boat… ”

  1. Tui 1

    go greenpeace!

    ~ tui

  2. Bill 2

    I guess this comment will irk some people (shrug), but as the stated mission is to continue our protest against climate-wrecking oil exploration the obvious question is – “How is the Taitu powered?”

    That’s not intended as a cheap shot, but given there are multiple non-fossil ways to power boats these days, and given that a boat will have a life expectancy of (guessing) 20 years, and given that we need to be cutting fossil use drastically right now to be fossil free in a few decades (~ 2030)…

    Anyway, I had a quick look and couldn’t see any info on how the Taitu is propelled – which leads me to suspect, that in spite of flettner rotors, hydrogen, battery cells, sails and kites and others all being proven non-fossil methods of propulsion; none of these option were explored.

    And how much better would that message have been? A Greenpeace boat.

    (Given that it took only 7 days to raise the $100 000 for the Taitu, I’m thinking a campaign to purchase a fossil free boat would not only have been do-able, but that the campaign itself would have been a massive boost to the anti-oil message they’re trying to out out there.)

    • Poission 2.1

      Ipsi testudines edite, qui cepistis

    • weka 2.2

      What makes you think options weren’t explored? Seriously, you think that one of the leading climate justice groups on the planet didn’t think about this?

      • Bill 2.2.1

        Short answer to second question – yes.

        On the first question, if they (non-fossil options) had been explored, then I’d have expected some mention of it somewhere in their literature. But there’s nothing.

        And what I suspect (only a suspicion) is that after a moment’s ‘reflection’ they punted for off-setting as though that somehow nullifies their future emissions. (It’s a common enough piece of self deception that people and organisations indulge in)

        • weka 2.2.1.1

          Ok, so you think that the organisation that’s just built one of its main vessels as a green build (including some of the tech you suggested) didn’t think about this boat in terms of climate change? Sorry, but that’s an idiocy.

          Sorry Greenpeace aren’t jumping to your tune, but they got this boat up and running really bloody fast. I can think of a number of things that may or may not have happened in the process, but I’m not playing that game, because (a) we would be speculating on thin air, and (b) we can’t afford this kind of tear em down politics and I’m sick of it. This is an awesome thing that they’ve done, which doesn’t put them above critique but it does mean they’ve earned some support and for that critique to be based on something real rather than just some internet reckons.

          • Bill 2.2.1.1.1

            Ok, so you think that the organisation that’s just built one of its main vessels as a green build (including some of the tech you suggested) didn’t think about this boat in terms of climate change?

            You’re making assumptions on what my knowledge is. What main vessel do they have that was a ‘green build’? If you can provide some info, I’d be appreciative. Never heard of it before.

            Like I wrote below, you’re exaggerating my initial comment (it seems, from where I sit, with a desire to shut down conversation), yet rather oddly, you’re also saying that Greenpeace aren’t above critique.

            Which is it?

            Greenpeace are above reproach – are exceptions on the GW front because they ‘do good things’, or sensible observations can be acknowledged and discussed without ‘everyone’ going all stone throwing defensive?

            • weka 2.2.1.1.1.1

              There’s nothing wrong with well-founded critique (so please stop misrepresenting my view on that), it’s about the how. In this case, you’re speculating based on nothing as far as I can see other than your own reckons (no-one here knows what GP did or didn’t do and we don’t even have any hints about that). You also chose a framing that brings the post down.

              You’re getting plenty of feedback in this thread about what some people find problematic about your approach, if you genuinely want to understand, then maybe listen to them and talk about it, there are good people here who know you saying roughly the same thing.

              Myself, I’m not getting into an argument over it. Your original comment was negative and IMO destructive. There are good points in there, but the framing was only ever going to bring contention and derailment, and IMO that was inappropriate for this post. Given the context of the post I find that pretty disappointing and it necessitates pointing out the thing again about shitting on our allies. I know you probably don’t think that’s what you are doing, but that’s how it came across.

              I can think of ways to have brought up the issue of what Taitu runs on without slagging off Greenpeace. So it’s not about shutting down the conversation so much as calling out the approach.

              It seems a shame for this thread to have been trashed. I’m sure it wasn’t your intention 🙂

              • Bill

                Show me through one piece of quoted text where I’ve “slagged off Greenpeace” in this thread. Just one.

            • RRM 2.2.1.1.1.2

              Ok, so you think that the organisation that’s just built one of its main vessels as a green build (including some of the tech you suggested) didn’t think about this boat in terms of climate change?

              LOL what???

              It’s a POS old wooden motor launch with whatever petrol or diesel engine it was built with back in the good old days.

              I spent a week in Queen Charlotte Sound on something similar once. 9 knots was achievable but the fuel level went down pretty fast, and the whole cabin top sounded like it was rattling itself to bits. 7 knots was a bit more achievable.

              Every morning we had to run the bilge pump for about 5 minutes to get rid of all the water that soaked in between (and through) the rotten old boards.

              This thing will be lucky to even make it out to where the survey ship is operating… let alone intercept it.

          • Bill 2.2.1.1.2

            Okay, just noticed the link you provided below to their “Motor Sail yacht with helicopter landing deck.”

          • Karen 2.2.1.1.3

            +1 Weka.

    • Andre 2.3

      For a vessel that needs to be able to go from random place A to random place B at a reasonable speed at short notice, there simply is no current viable substitute for fossil fuels (except nukes).

      Sails, kites, Flettner rotors are all wind dependent. Without a decent wind speed in a favourable direction, you’re stuck with very slow progress if that’s your only propulsion. So they’re great for supplementary/auxiliary propulsion, but not much use for primary propulsion, unless you’re just doing it for recreation and don’t need to keep a schedule.

      Hydrogen and battery cells don’t have the energy density required, maturity of technological development, nor the infrastructure required to support a vessel that is to be used like the Taiku. Yet.

      All of that is simply a reflection of the low price of fossil fuels. There has simply been no commercial incentive to develop alternatives.

      • weka 2.3.1

        http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/ships/the-rainbow-warrior/

        Then the timing, retrofitting issues etc etc, as a trade off on getting out to sea right now on the campaign that’s happening right now in response to the seismic blasting that’s happening right now. IMO it’s a bullshit argument. It could have been an interesting conversation, but the whole ‘Greenpeace fucked up’ framing, with undertones of they don’t know what they’re doing, is just bizarre and we literally don’t have time for this.

        • Andre 2.3.1.1

          Yeah, there may be times and places where Greenpeace may choose to showcase technology alternatives. A fast response protest support vessel doesn’t look like one of those times it’s sensible to do that.

        • Bill 2.3.1.2

          Who said “Greenpeace fucked up”? That’s your exaggerated framing from what I can see. Yes, they almost certainly missed an opportunity to execute something much better.

          The arse of it is that I don’t think it even crossed their mind. Look at their public statements on ‘off-setting’ and their take on CC and pitch your own probability of that being the case.

          Carbon put into the atmosphere right now is crucially important. It’s that which determines future warming. (Yeah, I know – wee boat.) My point is that the fossil and GW message could have been put out there and monies probably raised for a green option in the process. But hey.

          The argument (or defence) you’re putting up would essentially appear to be one of exceptionalism. That’s something we most certainly don’t have any time for. There are no exceptions. (Physics isn’t a reified something with a capacity to care)

          • weka 2.3.1.2.1

            No, the argument I’m putting up is that this is bullshit because no-one knows why GP have taken this approach, including you. But by all means let’s keep speculating on whether GP did something wrong based on shit we made up in our heads.

            Beyond that, if they chose to not make Taitu ‘green’ at this stage because they wanted to get out there to challenge the Amazon Warrior, then that’s pragmatics not exceptionalism. Which I have no problem with.

            I listened to the speeches. Those people aren’t ignorant or cc stupid. They’re running one of the biggest cc activism organisations in NZ. I’m pretty sure they know far more about how to operate their organisation, including what’s the best use of timing and effort, than you do.

            “Look at their public statements on ‘off-setting’ and their take on CC and pitch your own probability of that being the case.”

            If you want to make that argument you can link. I’m not going to trawl and then try and mind read what you are looking at or how you’re interpreting it. I’ve already called the idea that GPNZ didn’t think about fossil fuels when setting up the Taitu and idiocy and nothing you have said changes that.

          • JC 2.3.1.2.2

            I think you Fucked up Bill. There’s idealism and there’s action! Best you stay home where it’s warm and dry. Then you can theorise to your hearts content… and then deliberate how it could be Best done…
            Then get back in a decade or two! When it’s Too Late!

            Taitu!

          • JC 2.3.1.2.3

            I think you Fucked up Bill. There’s idealism and there’s action! Best you stay home where it’s warm and dry. Then you can theorise to your hearts content… and then deliberate how it could be Best done…
            Then get back in a decade or two! When it’s Too Late!

            Taitu!

      • Bill 2.3.2

        You’re a terrible one for crying ‘impossible’ Andre (and bowing down before market bullshit)

        Flettner rotors do not run on wind.
        Kites are flown at very high altitude…permanent and more or less constant wind
        Hydrogen propels ships just fine. (Just less ‘bang for buck’ for whatever volume of fuel is in the tank)
        Batteries are certainly more suited to short crossing type journeys.
        Nuclear (eek!) works too.

        Hell, Greenpeace could even use bio-fuel in the very short term.

        Wee boat. Many possible combinations for propulsion that obviate the need for fossil.

        • marty mars 2.3.2.1

          Would ANYTHING be good enough for you Bill. Seems like most everything people try to do in these areas is judged not good enough by you.

          • Poission 2.3.2.1.1

            look at the speakers,a bunch of urbanites ,non who have sustained a real job.

            • marty mars 2.3.2.1.1.1

              Politicians, activists and campaigners – yeah they’re real layabouts LOLOLOLOL

            • timeforacupoftea 2.3.2.1.1.2

              I would go further.
              I gave up on Greenpeace a number of years ago.
              Greenpeace has lost it ability for peaceful protests and should be just called the rainbow boat or something else.
              Greenpeace have been acting as a bunch of cowboys and cowgirls on the high seas enough to make me come to the conclusion they are close to being terrorists.
              Whenever they go out I feel this urge to yell “I hope your boat sinks”.

          • Bill 2.3.2.1.2

            Nah Marty. You can frame what I’ve written as negative if you like. But just mind, that’s your framing and not mine.

            • marty mars 2.3.2.1.2.1

              Sure Bill no judgement from you at all jusl all my framing – good you held onto that ‘ get out of jail free’ card innit

              • Bill

                Marty, where did I opine that Greenpeace (or anyone else) opposing seismic testing was a bad thing?

                edit. Go back to my original comment (and some others). I said an opportunity was missed in terms of putting a solid GW message out there.

                I suggested that they may have been able to do that as part and parcel of fundraising for a boat.

                And here’s the thing. Even if that fundraising had fallen short or even if technical barriers had killed off any idea of a fossil free boat, the message – one they are very keen to get out there – would have gotten out there.

                And if they’d managed to get a Greenpeace boat, then…think about it for a second. The never ending public messaging!

                But did they even try? That’s my criticism. They didn’t even try.

                • You don’t know what they considered or tried. You are not basing your opinion on fact and you aren’t seeing what HAS happened and how that continues the movement to what we want to go to. Sure call it constructive criticism if you want it is still criticism and unwarranted in the big scheme of things imo.

                  • weka

                    I wouldn’t call it constructive criticism, it’s destructive criticism, and I completely agree that it’s got no factual basis.

                    The problem now is that Bill and I are equally stubborn 😈

                  • Bill

                    Correct. I don’t know for a fact that they didn’t run a campaign on the back of securing a green boat that had the added and not inconsequential bonus of getting a basic and necessary message about GW out into the public arena.

                    I might have missed it. Oh, hang on – wouldn’t someone here have alerted me to it if that was the case? Or wouldn’t I have found traces of it with some pretty basic google searching?

                    As for what they considered, as I said previously, I’m basing my opinion on reasonable assumptions given lack of mention of any such consideration in their literature, and given their known take on off-setting alongside their publicly available documents on GW.

                    Ie, – build our way out, price carbon and be ‘renewable’ (bio-energy) in the energy sector – ie, not zero carbon … by 2050 on what is essentially a BAU trajectory..

                    You say in your comment they are continuing “the movement to what we want to go”. Well, I don’t want a world of >+2 degrees C. And unfortunately, that’s where Greenpeace’s ideas would take us.

                    Meanwhile. Do I support their opposition to oil drilling etc? Yes. Do I welcome their rejection of promises being made around carbon capture and storage tech? Yes.

                    • weka

                      Yes, that’s what it looks like to me. You disapprove of GP in general and have trashed this thread by focussing on something that has no real basis in fact and can’t be argued with because of that. I’ll just keep saying it, it’s not the content of what you argue it’s the approach and framing. Trashing allies is a losing strategy.

                    • Bill

                      I see. So you’ve concluded that I simply ‘whole sale’ disapprove of Greenpeace and so on that basis, any idea or thought from me about what ‘might have been’ had they gone about their public relations slightly differently (and that could always be borne in mind for similar future scenarios) cannot be discussed or debated and anyway ‘trashing allies’.

                      Wow.

                    • weka

                      No, I don’t think any of that.

          • Karen 2.3.2.1.3

            It is always much easier to criticise from the sidelines than get involved and do the work.

            • Bill 2.3.2.1.3.1

              You’ve no idea what I do or do not do with regards ‘sidelines’ and ‘involvement’ Karen.

              It’s fairly lazy to throw ad homs because a level of ‘cognitive dissonance’ within an organisation has observed and remarked on…much harder to engage in discussion and explore the ramifications of that disconnect though – or to seek ways to bridge the gaps between thoughts and actions, aye?

              But fuck it, you’re right. Far better and much more comfortable to just stand by and unconditionally cheer on our team regardless. Because life’s much easier when we reduce our individual critical faculties to the level of those three senseless wee monkeys and then just revel in a simplified world of black and white.

              • Karen

                You are right Bill, I don’t know what you do. It is just an impression I get from your contributions here, which seem to me to be overwhelmingly critical.

                Of course I don’t think you (or anyone else) should be just a cheerleader – but I often don’t even read your posts or comments because they usually are so negative. I get the frustration and the despair – I feel often it myself – but it isn’t productive I find. Maybe it works for you.

                • Bill

                  Frustration and realism, not despair.

                  As for ‘negative’ posts, well the last one was on not allowing the theft of water from the S. Island. Is that negative?

                  “Trumping Idiocy” was seeing the opportunity that Trump presents with regards GW.

                  “Mosul and Aleppo” was highlighting the hypocrisy of msm.

                  “CIA Hacking Tools” – again, highlighting msm bullshit

                  “Encouraging Signs” – on TOPs attempt at better democratic representation

                  “Heroes” – self explanatory.

                  But hey. You find it all that negative? That’s okay, no-one’s going to make you read the stuff and there are plenty of other, and more prolific, posters around.

        • Andre 2.3.2.2

          Flettner rotors do not require wind to usefully propel a boat? Please explain to me how that works.

          Keep in mind I’m an engineer that’s had reason to do Magnus effect calculations.

          • Bill 2.3.2.2.1

            Begging your pardon. Yes, in the doldrums, flettner rotors would not be able to create the pressure differential.

    • Nick Young 2.4

      Hi Bill –

      Yes Taitu runs on diesel. We explored all options, but in the time that we had, within the budget we had, and to do the job at hand, this was the best option.

      Some say this is hypocritical but if you think about it, there is no hypocrisy in working towards a society that’s free of oil while you live in an oil-dependent society. In fact, it’s all we can do. A precondition for hypocrisy is choice – and it is choice we are fighting for.

      If we are to transition away from oil, we must fight for, and enact policies to end oil dependency even while we are hooked on oil.

      The allegation that we are hypocrites for opposing oil implies that we have no right to do anything towards being oil free until we are actually oil free and that is clearly ridiculous.

      If we fall for this so-called hypocrisy argument, it guarantees that we can never do anything towards being free of our oil dependency. It’s no wonder that the oil industry, oil drilling advocates and their trolls love the hypocrisy argument.

      People once wore clothes made of cotton picked by slaves. But that did not make them hypocrites when they joined the abolition movement. It just meant that they were also part of the slave economy, and they knew it. That is why they acted to change the system, not just their clothes.

      We all do what we can do to lessen our environmental footprint but that alone is not enough. We have to challenge the system that locks us into oil dependency.

      (We’ll also convert Taitu to run on waste vegetable oil.)

      • Bill 2.4.1

        HI Nick – thanks for the response.

        If you care to read my initial comment, you’ll see that I wasn’t accusing Greenpeace of hypocrisy, but lamenting the fact that a more penetrative and broader fund raising campaign wasn’t engaged in – one that would have put a forceful GW message right into the public arena.

        As I commented by way of follow-up, even if that campaign had failed to secure a non-fossil vessel, it would have succeeded in terms of messaging.

        You may also notice from other comments that I support anti-oil initiatives.

        So yeah – your response is a bit of a straw man really, but hey.

        By way of your bracketed end note – do you (ie – Greenpeace) acknowledge that bio-fuels (from a western or Annex 1 perspective) can only be used in the very, very short term and essentially have no part to play in a world that’s serious about seeking to avoid 2 degrees C?

      • Poission 2.4.2

        (We’ll also convert Taitu to run on waste vegetable oil.)

        Palm or GMO canola?

      • weka 2.4.3

        Nice one Nick. It’d be great to hear more about the vegetables oil conversion at some point.

    • Steve Abel 2.5

      Hi Bill,
      Taitu is powered by bio diesel and after this mission we’ll refit for biofuel (needs some time as it cleans out the engine).

      The boat is 81 years old and the cost of buying a relatively cheap second hand boat and re-purposing it is orders of magnitude less costly than building from scratch. And much quicker. You also save on the embedded carbon cost of new materials. Re-purposing is a good thing.

      We have built from scratch once with the third Rainbow Warrior – the only purpose built boat in the GP fleet – a sailboat with a hybrid electric and diesel engine. But it cost literally millions. It is a much bigger boat and will last decades of course so a good investment but one that required the global organisation.

      We need whole-of-society action on fossil fuels and even if Greenpeace itself was 100% fossil free it wouldn’t save us. If we focused on being pure ourselves we might succeed but to what end? We believe our purpose is to compel system change and a rapid transition of the whole of society to clean energy systems by campaigning and movement building.

      We get accused of hypocrisy (usually a cheap shot – though i don’t think in this instance) but we’re doing what we believe is the most effective use of our time and relatively limited resources (by comparison with governments or the oil industry) to get the widespread urgent action on climate change that we all need if we are to avoid a hellish existence.

      Thanks,
      Steve Abel (Greenpeace NZ)

      • Bill 2.5.1

        Hi Steve –

        I appreciate buying second hand is much, much cheaper than building from scratch and all the rest of it. And I’m fully aware that radical systemic changes across the whole of society is necessary with regards any prospect of a sub 2 degree C future: that merely transitioning to clean energy systems will fail due to time constraints. (ie – the time available between now and 2 degrees C, as calculated from IPCC carbon budgets and present emissions, just isn’t long enough to allow us to build those clean energy systems).

        My point (again) was I thought and think it a shame that Greenpeace missed the opportunity to run a public campaign that secured a boat while also getting a fundamental and quite powerful message about GW into the public arena.

        If I can expand just briefly.

        Lets go back in time a little way and imagine Greenpeace says it wants a truly green boat and explains the GW reasoning behind that. Going on the ‘less than optimal’ result of that campaign, the fund raising falls short and a boat like the Taitu is purchased.

        Well, public awareness has been raised substantially. Greenpeace has demonstrated its commitment to being fossil free (and can wear a certain badge of pride even though it falls short). And afterwards, when the oil industry and others turn around (as they will) and throw those cheap shots about how Greenpeace are hypocrites, Greenpeace’s arse is covered. They don’t have to fall back on defensive arguments (like Nick above), but can point to their genuine effort to be ‘squeaky clean’ – essentially getting another bite at the cherry every time that cheap shot is made.

        Ie – just solid messaging and good propaganda.

        And as a postscript, if you’d care to respond to the question asked of Nick (above) about Greenpeace’s take on the place for bio-fuel in any scenario aiming for sub 2 degrees, I’d appreciate it.

        • Steve Abel 2.5.1.2

          Yeah i think biofuels are a useful transition (among a suite of other strategies) which allows us to do the sort of thing we are with Taitu – keep an old diesel engine going for a little longer rather than just scrap the whole thing or do an expensive re-fit.

          Biofuels are inherently risky too in terms of how and where they are produced. using arable land for growing fuel instead of food is not something Greenpeace supports. NZ is in an unusual position of having some options in terms of wood waste from plantation forestry for producing liquid fuel alternatives to fossil fuels and we could have a substantial domestic industry substituting middle east oil for local biofuel and reduce our multi-billion dollar oil deficit in the bargain.

          Steve

          • Bill 2.5.1.2.1

            I’ll try to keep this very brief.

            Through Agreements signed up to at Paris and Copenhagen etc, we’ve committed to keeping average surface temperatures to below 2 degrees C, basing action to achieve that on science and equity, yes?

            That’s means (using IPCC carbon budgets and current CO2 emissions) that countries viewed as being of the west or annex 1 or OECD need to fully decarbonise all energy by around 2035 for the world to have just a 1 in 3 chance of avoiding 2 degrees C.

            Bio-fuels produce CO2 and the physics of AGW doesn’t differentiate between CO2 sources – CO2 accumulating in the atmosphere has the same effect no matter the source.

            And it is not technically feasible to build or construct a renewable energy supply, even for current levels of energy use before 2035.

            In other words, there’s a forced disconnect rather than the possibility of a transition.

            We need to reduce emissions now (the calculation is in the order of 15% per year) down to zero by 2035 and be laying in that renewable supply.

            Bio-fuels (even if all the logistical and ethical issues involved were resolved) essentially have no role to play. (Yes, we could ‘swap out’ fossil for bio in the context of reducing our over all emissions, but we can’t substitute fossil for bio on the back on some notion that bio-fuels have no impact or only a benign impact on levels of atmospheric CO2 )

            Maybe I should do a fully referenced post on this…

            • weka 2.5.1.2.1.1

              A post would be good.

              At first glance I’d say there’s some interim use from using biofuels from existing waste streams, and probably from certain kinds of intentionally grown material that also sequesters carbon.

              (which leads me at least into the debate about burning firewood sustainably, and that thing about how reaching for zero on its own is not enough, we need to design systems that are truly sustainable as part of that).

              • Bill

                At first glance I’d say there’s some interim use from using biofuels from existing waste streams…

                Well yes, and I said that in the preceding comment (swapping out some fossil for bio in the context of over-all reductions)

                and probably from certain kinds of intentionally grown material that also sequesters carbon.

                Which then releases its sequestrated CO2 into the atmosphere when combusted thereby adding to the accumulated levels of atmospheric CO2. The theoretical way around that is BECCS (Bio Energy Carbon Capture and Storage) which is fraught to say the least and which Greenpeace (to their credit) rejects as an option.

                I’ve personally never claimed or suggested that zero carbon from energy is sufficient, merely that it’s necessary. No scientific paper, nor scientist, nor other person speaking on AGW who has the ability to spell “IQ” has, to my knowledge, claimed that getting emissions to zero is sufficient either.

      • weka 2.5.2

        Thanks for clarifying Steve. I especially liked the bit about embedded carbon costs of new materials, something not looked at nearly enough.

  3. JC 3

    I think you Fucked up Bill. There’s idealism and there’s action! Best you stay ashore where it’s warm and dry. Then you can theorise to your hearts content… and then deliberate how it could be Best done…

    https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#search/greenpeace/15abaf196b056e01

    Then get back in a decade or two! When it’s weigh Too Late!

    Taitu!

  4. David Millar 4

    Ask yourself, if the world was cooling would “big oil” be the hero not the villain?

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • WHANAU OF MĀORI BATTALION SOLDIERS REUNITED WITH MEDALS
    A ceremony has been held today in Gisborne where the unclaimed medals of 28 (Māori) Battalion C Company soldiers were presented to their families.   After the Second World War, returning service personnel needed to apply for their medals and then they would be posted out to them.  While most medals ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • SolarWinds compromise attributed to Russian state actor
    New Zealand has today added its voice to the international condemnation of the malicious compromise and exploitation of the SolarWinds Orion platform. The Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau, Andrew Little, says that New Zealand's international partners have analysed the compromise of the SolarWinds Orion platform and attributed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Queenstown roading project given fast track approval
    An expert consenting panel has approved the Queenstown Arterials Project, which will significantly improve transport links and reduce congestion for locals and visitors in the tourism hotspot.   Environment Minister David Parker welcomed the approval for the project that will construct, operate and maintain a new urban road around Queenstown’s town ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Screen industry secures landmark project
    Economic and Regional Development Minister Stuart Nash says a landmark deal has been agreed with Amazon for The Lord of the Rings TV series, currently being filmed in New Zealand. Mr Nash says the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) secures multi-year economic and tourism benefits to New Zealand, outside the screen ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Report into review of health response to lead contamination released
    The Government welcomes the findings from a rapid review into the health system response to lead contamination in Waikouaiti’s drinking water supply. Sample results from the town’s drinking-water supply showed intermittent spikes in lead levels above the maximum acceptable value. The source of the contamination is still under investigation by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • NZ Upgrade Programme revs up economic recovery
    Transport Minister Michael Wood today marked the start of construction on the New Zealand Upgrade Programme’s Papakura to Drury South project on Auckland’s Southern Motorway, which will create hundreds of jobs and support Auckland’s economic recovery. The SH1 Papakura to Drury South project will give more transport choices by providing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech releasing the Digital Council's report 'Towards Trustworthy and Trusted Automated D...
    CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY  E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā karanga maha o te wa, tēnā koutou, tēna koutou, tēna tātou katoa. Ki ngā mana whenua, ko Ngāi Tahu, ko Waitaha, ko Kāti Māmoe  anō nei aku mihi ki a koutou. Nōku te hōnore kia haere mai ki te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Green light for 10 minute e-bus to Auckland Airport
    Transport Minister Michael Wood today marked the completion of upgrades to State Highway 20B which will give Aucklanders quick electric bus trips to and from the airport. The State Highway 20B Early Improvements project has added new lanes in each direction between Pukaki Creek Bridge and SH20 for buses and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Review into greyhound racing announced
    The Government is putting in place a review of the work being done on animal welfare and safety in the greyhound racing industry, Grant Robertson announced today. “While Greyhound Racing NZ has reported some progress in implementing the recommendations of the Hansen Report, recent incidents show the industry still has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Road safety boosted by increased penalty for mobile use while driving
    The infringement fee for using a mobile phone while driving will increase from $80 to $150 from 30 April 2021 to encourage safer driving, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. Michael Wood said too many people are still picking up the phone while driving. “Police issued over 40,000 infringement notices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Pacific mental wellbeing supported across Auckland and Wellington
    Pacific people in New Zealand will be better supported with new mental health and addiction services rolling out across the Auckland and Wellington regions, says Aupito William Sio.  “One size does not fit all when it comes to supporting the mental wellbeing of our Pacific peoples. We need a by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Fresh approach proposed to Smokefree 2025
    New measures are being proposed to accelerate progress towards becoming a smokefree nation by 2025, Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced. “Smoking or exposure to second-hand smoke kills around 12 people a day in New Zealand. Recent data tells us New Zealand’s smoking rates continue to decrease, but ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Govt expands Mana Ake to provide more school-based mental wellbeing support
    More children will be able to access mental wellbeing support with the Government expansion of Mana Ake services to five new District Health Board areas, Health Minister Andrew Little says. The Health Minister made the announcement while visiting Homai School in Counties Manukau alongside Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Associate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Record Number of People Move Into Work
    The Government’s COVID-19 response has meant a record number of people moved off a Benefit and into employment in the March Quarter, with 32,880 moving into work in the first three months of 2021. “More people moved into work last quarter than any time since the Ministry of Social Development ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Significant global progress made under Christchurch Call
    A stocktake undertaken by France and New Zealand shows significant global progress under the Christchurch Call towards its goal to eliminate terrorist and violent extremist content online.  The findings of the report released today reinforce the importance of a multi-stakeholder approach, with countries, companies and civil society working together to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New chair of interim TAB NZ Board appointed
    Racing Minister Grant Robertson has announced he is appointing Elizabeth Dawson (Liz) as the Chair of the interim TAB NZ Board. Liz Dawson is an existing Board Director of the interim TAB NZ Board and Chair of the TAB NZ Board Selection Panel and will continue in her role as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government to phase out live exports by sea
    The Government has announced that the export of livestock by sea will cease following a transition period of up to two years, said Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “At the heart of our decision is upholding New Zealand’s reputation for high standards of animal welfare. We must stay ahead of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Workshop on Lethal Autonomous Weapons Systems – opening remarks
    WORKSHOP ON LETHAL AUTONOMOUS WEAPONS SYSTEMS Wednesday 14 April 2021 MINISTER FOR DISARMAMENT AND ARMS CONTROL OPENING REMARKS Good morning, I am so pleased to be able to join you for part of this workshop, which I’m confident will help us along the path to developing New Zealand’s national policy on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Inter-prison kapa haka competition launched
    For the first time, all 18 prisons in New Zealand will be invited to participate in an inter-prison kapa haka competition, Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. The 2021 Hōkai Rangi Whakataetae Kapa Haka will see groups prepare and perform kapa haka for experienced judges who visit each prison and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government takes step forward on counter terrorism laws
    The Government has introduced the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill, designed to boost New Zealand's ability to respond to a wider range of terrorist activities. The Bill strengthens New Zealand’s counter-terrorism legislation and ensures that the right legislative tools are available to intervene early and prevent harm. “This is the Government’s first ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Carbon neutral government a step closer
    Coal boiler replacements at a further ten schools, saving an estimated 7,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide over the next ten years Fossil fuel boiler replacements at Southern Institute of Technology and Taranaki DHB, saving nearly 14,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide over the next ten years Projects to achieve a total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Appointment of Chief Parliamentary Counsel
    Attorney-General David Parker today announced the appointment of Cassie Nicholson as Chief Parliamentary Counsel for a term of five years. The Chief Parliamentary Counsel is the principal advisor and Chief Executive of the Parliamentary Counsel Office (PCO).  She is responsible for ensuring PCO, which drafts most of New Zealand’s legislation, provides ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Emissions report shows urgent action needed
    Every part of Government will need to take urgent action to bring down emissions, the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw said today in response to the recent rise in New Zealand’s greenhouse emissions. The latest annual inventory of New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions shows that both gross and net ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ becomes first in world for climate reporting
    Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister David Clark says Aotearoa New Zealand has become the first country in the world to introduce a law that requires the financial sector to disclose the impacts of climate change on their business and explain how they will manage climate-related risks and opportunities. The Financial ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Awards celebrate the food and fibre sector employer excellence
    Exceptional employment practices in the primary industries have been celebrated at the Good Employer Awards, held this evening at Parliament. “Tonight’s awards provided the opportunity to celebrate and thank those employers in the food and fibres sector who have gone beyond business-as-usual in creating productive, safe, supportive, and healthy work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Tourism Infrastructure Fund now open
    Applications are now invited from all councils for a slice of government funding aimed at improving tourism infrastructure, especially in areas under pressure given the size of their rating bases. Tourism Minister Stuart Nash has already signalled that five South Island regions will be given priority to reflect that jobs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Electricity Networks Association (ENA) Annual Cocktail Speech 2021
    Tēnā koutou e ngā maata waka Tenā koutou te hau kāinga ngā iwi o Te Whanganui ā TaraTēnā koutou i runga i te kaupapa o te Rā. No reira, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā tatou katoa.  It is a pleasure to be here tonight.  Thank you Graeme (Peters, ENA Chief ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Construction Skills Action Plan delivering early on targets
    The Construction Skills Action Plan has delivered early on its overall target of supporting an additional 4,000 people into construction-related education and employment, says Minister for Building and Construction Poto Williams. Since the Plan was launched in 2018, more than 9,300 people have taken up education or employment opportunities in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Youth Justice residence offers new pathway
    An innovative new Youth Justice residence designed in partnership with Māori will provide prevention, healing, and rehabilitation services for both young people and their whānau, Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis announced today.  Whakatakapokai is located in South Auckland and will provide care and support for up to 15 rangatahi remanded or ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • The Duke of Edinburgh
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today expressed New Zealand’s sorrow at the death of His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. “Our thoughts are with Her Majesty The Queen at this profoundly sad time.  On behalf of the New Zealand people and the Government, I would like to express ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Five Country Ministerial Communiqué
    We, the Home Affairs, Interior, Security and Immigration Ministers of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States of America (the ‘Five Countries’) met via video conference on 7/8 April 2021, just over a year after the outbreak of the COVID-19 global pandemic. Guided by our shared ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Inspiring creativity through cultural installations and events
    Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni has today announced the opening of the first round of Ngā Puninga Toi ā-Ahurea me ngā Kaupapa Cultural Installations and Events. “Creating jobs and helping the arts sector rebuild and recover continues to be a key part of the Government’s COVID-19 response,” Carmel ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Drug-testing law to be made permanent
    Interim legislation that is already proving to keep people safer from drugs will be made permanent, Health Minister Andrew Little says. Research by Victoria University, on behalf of the Ministry of Health, shows that the Government’s decision in December to make it legal for drug-checking services to operate at festivals ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Better rules proposed for freedom camping
    Public consultation launched on ways to improve behaviour and reduce damage Tighter rules proposed for either camping vehicles or camping locations Increased penalties proposed, such as $1,000 fines or vehicle confiscation Rental companies may be required to collect fines from campers who hire vehicles Public feedback is sought on proposals ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government backs Air New Zealand as Trans-Tasman bubble opens
    The Government is continuing to support Air New Zealand while aviation markets stabilise and the world moves towards more normal border operations. The Crown loan facility made available to Air New Zealand in March 2020 has been extended to a debt facility of up to $1.5 billion (an additional $600 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Building gifted for new community hub in Richmond red zone
    Christchurch’s Richmond suburb will soon have a new community hub, following the gifting of a red-zoned property by Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) to the Richmond Community Gardens Trust. The Minister for Land Information, Damien O’Connor said that LINZ, on behalf of the Crown, will gift a Vogel Street house ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages funding reopens
      Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the reopening of the Ministry for Pacific Peoples’ (MPP) Languages Funding in 2021 will make sure there is a future for Pacific languages. “Language is the key to the wellbeing for Pacific people. It affirms our identity as Pasifika and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • ERANZ speech April 2021
    It is a pleasure to be here tonight.  Thank you Cameron for the introduction and thank you for ERANZ for also hosting this event. Last week in fact, we had one of the largest gatherings in our sector, Downstream 2021. I have heard from my officials that the discussion on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Strengthening Māori knowledge in science and innovation
    Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods has today announced the 16 projects that will together get $3.9 million through the 2021 round of Te Pūnaha Hihiko: Vision Mātauranga Capability Fund, further strengthening the Government’s commitment to Māori knowledge in science and innovation.  “We received 78 proposals - the highest ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government delivers next phase of climate action
    The Government is delivering on a key election commitment to tackle climate change, by banning new low and medium temperature coal-fired boilers and partnering with the private sector to help it transition away from fossil fuels. This is the first major announcement to follow the release of the Climate Commission’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago