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Greenpeace got themselves a bigger boat…

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 2nd, 2017 - 59 comments
Categories: climate change, energy, Environment - Tags: , , , ,

THE PEOPLE VS OIL

After confronting Statoil and Chevron seismic blasting 50 nautical miles off the Wairarapa coast in small inflatable boats, we put out a call to New Zealanders to help us buy a bigger boat. The response was phenomenal. Within seven days we’d crowdfunded nearly $100,000 and bought a boat! As the newest member of the Greenpeace fleet, it’s got its rainbow stripes, and a new name chosen by you.

Soon we plan to head out again and continue our protest against climate-wrecking oil exploration. Stay with us.

Welcome the MV Taitu.

Taitu is a verb meaning to hinder, impede, deter, and thwart an enemy. As a name for a boat it references the sea (Tai) and Tu means standing, strength, warrior spirit.

More on the name and history here.

 

 

The pre-naming ceremony speeches (video above) were from,

  • Greenpeace NZ Board Chairperson Stephanie Mills on the name and naming process
  • Grant Robertson for Labour
  • Iona Pannett for the Wellington City Council
  • Greenpeace climate campaigner and sailor Kate Simcock on the nautical and non-violence history of Greenpeace including the parallels between our nuclear-free history and climate action
  • Climate activist and Greenpeace supporter Lucy Lawless
  • Greenpeace Executive Director Russell Norman on the oil and coal industry in crisis and the local campaign.

Kate Simcock,

… [the Vega’s] peaceful mission was to protest French nuclear atmospheric testing at the Mururoa Atoll in the Pacific. And so Greenpeace NZ began 44 years ago, with the voyage of a boat. The Vega sailed again in 1973 and in that protest was joined by two NZ navy frigates, the Otago and the Canterbury, which were also on a mission to bear witness on behalf of the NZ government in a peaceful protest against French Nuclear testing.

When Prime Minister Norman Kirk farewelled the crew of the Otago, he said to the crew “Yours is an honourable mission with the power to bring alive the conscience of the world”.

When we painted the rainbow on the side of Taitu… the rainbow symbol reminds us there is hope inherent in action.

Together we ended nuclear testing in the Pacific, and together we can rise up and end the oil age, and together we have the power to bring alive the conscience of the world.

We can follow the MV Taitu on twitter, Facebook, and the Greenpeace Taitu page.

59 comments on “Greenpeace got themselves a bigger boat…”

  1. Tui 1

    go greenpeace!

    ~ tui

  2. Bill 2

    I guess this comment will irk some people (shrug), but as the stated mission is to continue our protest against climate-wrecking oil exploration the obvious question is – “How is the Taitu powered?”

    That’s not intended as a cheap shot, but given there are multiple non-fossil ways to power boats these days, and given that a boat will have a life expectancy of (guessing) 20 years, and given that we need to be cutting fossil use drastically right now to be fossil free in a few decades (~ 2030)…

    Anyway, I had a quick look and couldn’t see any info on how the Taitu is propelled – which leads me to suspect, that in spite of flettner rotors, hydrogen, battery cells, sails and kites and others all being proven non-fossil methods of propulsion; none of these option were explored.

    And how much better would that message have been? A Greenpeace boat.

    (Given that it took only 7 days to raise the $100 000 for the Taitu, I’m thinking a campaign to purchase a fossil free boat would not only have been do-able, but that the campaign itself would have been a massive boost to the anti-oil message they’re trying to out out there.)

    • Poission 2.1

      Ipsi testudines edite, qui cepistis

    • weka 2.2

      What makes you think options weren’t explored? Seriously, you think that one of the leading climate justice groups on the planet didn’t think about this?

      • Bill 2.2.1

        Short answer to second question – yes.

        On the first question, if they (non-fossil options) had been explored, then I’d have expected some mention of it somewhere in their literature. But there’s nothing.

        And what I suspect (only a suspicion) is that after a moment’s ‘reflection’ they punted for off-setting as though that somehow nullifies their future emissions. (It’s a common enough piece of self deception that people and organisations indulge in)

        • weka 2.2.1.1

          Ok, so you think that the organisation that’s just built one of its main vessels as a green build (including some of the tech you suggested) didn’t think about this boat in terms of climate change? Sorry, but that’s an idiocy.

          Sorry Greenpeace aren’t jumping to your tune, but they got this boat up and running really bloody fast. I can think of a number of things that may or may not have happened in the process, but I’m not playing that game, because (a) we would be speculating on thin air, and (b) we can’t afford this kind of tear em down politics and I’m sick of it. This is an awesome thing that they’ve done, which doesn’t put them above critique but it does mean they’ve earned some support and for that critique to be based on something real rather than just some internet reckons.

          • Bill 2.2.1.1.1

            Ok, so you think that the organisation that’s just built one of its main vessels as a green build (including some of the tech you suggested) didn’t think about this boat in terms of climate change?

            You’re making assumptions on what my knowledge is. What main vessel do they have that was a ‘green build’? If you can provide some info, I’d be appreciative. Never heard of it before.

            Like I wrote below, you’re exaggerating my initial comment (it seems, from where I sit, with a desire to shut down conversation), yet rather oddly, you’re also saying that Greenpeace aren’t above critique.

            Which is it?

            Greenpeace are above reproach – are exceptions on the GW front because they ‘do good things’, or sensible observations can be acknowledged and discussed without ‘everyone’ going all stone throwing defensive?

            • weka 2.2.1.1.1.1

              There’s nothing wrong with well-founded critique (so please stop misrepresenting my view on that), it’s about the how. In this case, you’re speculating based on nothing as far as I can see other than your own reckons (no-one here knows what GP did or didn’t do and we don’t even have any hints about that). You also chose a framing that brings the post down.

              You’re getting plenty of feedback in this thread about what some people find problematic about your approach, if you genuinely want to understand, then maybe listen to them and talk about it, there are good people here who know you saying roughly the same thing.

              Myself, I’m not getting into an argument over it. Your original comment was negative and IMO destructive. There are good points in there, but the framing was only ever going to bring contention and derailment, and IMO that was inappropriate for this post. Given the context of the post I find that pretty disappointing and it necessitates pointing out the thing again about shitting on our allies. I know you probably don’t think that’s what you are doing, but that’s how it came across.

              I can think of ways to have brought up the issue of what Taitu runs on without slagging off Greenpeace. So it’s not about shutting down the conversation so much as calling out the approach.

              It seems a shame for this thread to have been trashed. I’m sure it wasn’t your intention 🙂

              • Bill

                Show me through one piece of quoted text where I’ve “slagged off Greenpeace” in this thread. Just one.

            • RRM 2.2.1.1.1.2

              Ok, so you think that the organisation that’s just built one of its main vessels as a green build (including some of the tech you suggested) didn’t think about this boat in terms of climate change?

              LOL what???

              It’s a POS old wooden motor launch with whatever petrol or diesel engine it was built with back in the good old days.

              I spent a week in Queen Charlotte Sound on something similar once. 9 knots was achievable but the fuel level went down pretty fast, and the whole cabin top sounded like it was rattling itself to bits. 7 knots was a bit more achievable.

              Every morning we had to run the bilge pump for about 5 minutes to get rid of all the water that soaked in between (and through) the rotten old boards.

              This thing will be lucky to even make it out to where the survey ship is operating… let alone intercept it.

          • Bill 2.2.1.1.2

            Okay, just noticed the link you provided below to their “Motor Sail yacht with helicopter landing deck.”

          • Karen 2.2.1.1.3

            +1 Weka.

    • Andre 2.3

      For a vessel that needs to be able to go from random place A to random place B at a reasonable speed at short notice, there simply is no current viable substitute for fossil fuels (except nukes).

      Sails, kites, Flettner rotors are all wind dependent. Without a decent wind speed in a favourable direction, you’re stuck with very slow progress if that’s your only propulsion. So they’re great for supplementary/auxiliary propulsion, but not much use for primary propulsion, unless you’re just doing it for recreation and don’t need to keep a schedule.

      Hydrogen and battery cells don’t have the energy density required, maturity of technological development, nor the infrastructure required to support a vessel that is to be used like the Taiku. Yet.

      All of that is simply a reflection of the low price of fossil fuels. There has simply been no commercial incentive to develop alternatives.

      • weka 2.3.1

        http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/ships/the-rainbow-warrior/

        Then the timing, retrofitting issues etc etc, as a trade off on getting out to sea right now on the campaign that’s happening right now in response to the seismic blasting that’s happening right now. IMO it’s a bullshit argument. It could have been an interesting conversation, but the whole ‘Greenpeace fucked up’ framing, with undertones of they don’t know what they’re doing, is just bizarre and we literally don’t have time for this.

        • Andre 2.3.1.1

          Yeah, there may be times and places where Greenpeace may choose to showcase technology alternatives. A fast response protest support vessel doesn’t look like one of those times it’s sensible to do that.

        • Bill 2.3.1.2

          Who said “Greenpeace fucked up”? That’s your exaggerated framing from what I can see. Yes, they almost certainly missed an opportunity to execute something much better.

          The arse of it is that I don’t think it even crossed their mind. Look at their public statements on ‘off-setting’ and their take on CC and pitch your own probability of that being the case.

          Carbon put into the atmosphere right now is crucially important. It’s that which determines future warming. (Yeah, I know – wee boat.) My point is that the fossil and GW message could have been put out there and monies probably raised for a green option in the process. But hey.

          The argument (or defence) you’re putting up would essentially appear to be one of exceptionalism. That’s something we most certainly don’t have any time for. There are no exceptions. (Physics isn’t a reified something with a capacity to care)

          • weka 2.3.1.2.1

            No, the argument I’m putting up is that this is bullshit because no-one knows why GP have taken this approach, including you. But by all means let’s keep speculating on whether GP did something wrong based on shit we made up in our heads.

            Beyond that, if they chose to not make Taitu ‘green’ at this stage because they wanted to get out there to challenge the Amazon Warrior, then that’s pragmatics not exceptionalism. Which I have no problem with.

            I listened to the speeches. Those people aren’t ignorant or cc stupid. They’re running one of the biggest cc activism organisations in NZ. I’m pretty sure they know far more about how to operate their organisation, including what’s the best use of timing and effort, than you do.

            “Look at their public statements on ‘off-setting’ and their take on CC and pitch your own probability of that being the case.”

            If you want to make that argument you can link. I’m not going to trawl and then try and mind read what you are looking at or how you’re interpreting it. I’ve already called the idea that GPNZ didn’t think about fossil fuels when setting up the Taitu and idiocy and nothing you have said changes that.

          • JC 2.3.1.2.2

            I think you Fucked up Bill. There’s idealism and there’s action! Best you stay home where it’s warm and dry. Then you can theorise to your hearts content… and then deliberate how it could be Best done…
            Then get back in a decade or two! When it’s Too Late!

            Taitu!

          • JC 2.3.1.2.3

            I think you Fucked up Bill. There’s idealism and there’s action! Best you stay home where it’s warm and dry. Then you can theorise to your hearts content… and then deliberate how it could be Best done…
            Then get back in a decade or two! When it’s Too Late!

            Taitu!

      • Bill 2.3.2

        You’re a terrible one for crying ‘impossible’ Andre (and bowing down before market bullshit)

        Flettner rotors do not run on wind.
        Kites are flown at very high altitude…permanent and more or less constant wind
        Hydrogen propels ships just fine. (Just less ‘bang for buck’ for whatever volume of fuel is in the tank)
        Batteries are certainly more suited to short crossing type journeys.
        Nuclear (eek!) works too.

        Hell, Greenpeace could even use bio-fuel in the very short term.

        Wee boat. Many possible combinations for propulsion that obviate the need for fossil.

        • marty mars 2.3.2.1

          Would ANYTHING be good enough for you Bill. Seems like most everything people try to do in these areas is judged not good enough by you.

          • Poission 2.3.2.1.1

            look at the speakers,a bunch of urbanites ,non who have sustained a real job.

            • marty mars 2.3.2.1.1.1

              Politicians, activists and campaigners – yeah they’re real layabouts LOLOLOLOL

            • timeforacupoftea 2.3.2.1.1.2

              I would go further.
              I gave up on Greenpeace a number of years ago.
              Greenpeace has lost it ability for peaceful protests and should be just called the rainbow boat or something else.
              Greenpeace have been acting as a bunch of cowboys and cowgirls on the high seas enough to make me come to the conclusion they are close to being terrorists.
              Whenever they go out I feel this urge to yell “I hope your boat sinks”.

          • Bill 2.3.2.1.2

            Nah Marty. You can frame what I’ve written as negative if you like. But just mind, that’s your framing and not mine.

            • marty mars 2.3.2.1.2.1

              Sure Bill no judgement from you at all jusl all my framing – good you held onto that ‘ get out of jail free’ card innit

              • Bill

                Marty, where did I opine that Greenpeace (or anyone else) opposing seismic testing was a bad thing?

                edit. Go back to my original comment (and some others). I said an opportunity was missed in terms of putting a solid GW message out there.

                I suggested that they may have been able to do that as part and parcel of fundraising for a boat.

                And here’s the thing. Even if that fundraising had fallen short or even if technical barriers had killed off any idea of a fossil free boat, the message – one they are very keen to get out there – would have gotten out there.

                And if they’d managed to get a Greenpeace boat, then…think about it for a second. The never ending public messaging!

                But did they even try? That’s my criticism. They didn’t even try.

                • You don’t know what they considered or tried. You are not basing your opinion on fact and you aren’t seeing what HAS happened and how that continues the movement to what we want to go to. Sure call it constructive criticism if you want it is still criticism and unwarranted in the big scheme of things imo.

                  • weka

                    I wouldn’t call it constructive criticism, it’s destructive criticism, and I completely agree that it’s got no factual basis.

                    The problem now is that Bill and I are equally stubborn 😈

                  • Bill

                    Correct. I don’t know for a fact that they didn’t run a campaign on the back of securing a green boat that had the added and not inconsequential bonus of getting a basic and necessary message about GW out into the public arena.

                    I might have missed it. Oh, hang on – wouldn’t someone here have alerted me to it if that was the case? Or wouldn’t I have found traces of it with some pretty basic google searching?

                    As for what they considered, as I said previously, I’m basing my opinion on reasonable assumptions given lack of mention of any such consideration in their literature, and given their known take on off-setting alongside their publicly available documents on GW.

                    Ie, – build our way out, price carbon and be ‘renewable’ (bio-energy) in the energy sector – ie, not zero carbon … by 2050 on what is essentially a BAU trajectory..

                    You say in your comment they are continuing “the movement to what we want to go”. Well, I don’t want a world of >+2 degrees C. And unfortunately, that’s where Greenpeace’s ideas would take us.

                    Meanwhile. Do I support their opposition to oil drilling etc? Yes. Do I welcome their rejection of promises being made around carbon capture and storage tech? Yes.

                    • weka

                      Yes, that’s what it looks like to me. You disapprove of GP in general and have trashed this thread by focussing on something that has no real basis in fact and can’t be argued with because of that. I’ll just keep saying it, it’s not the content of what you argue it’s the approach and framing. Trashing allies is a losing strategy.

                    • Bill

                      I see. So you’ve concluded that I simply ‘whole sale’ disapprove of Greenpeace and so on that basis, any idea or thought from me about what ‘might have been’ had they gone about their public relations slightly differently (and that could always be borne in mind for similar future scenarios) cannot be discussed or debated and anyway ‘trashing allies’.

                      Wow.

                    • weka

                      No, I don’t think any of that.

          • Karen 2.3.2.1.3

            It is always much easier to criticise from the sidelines than get involved and do the work.

            • Bill 2.3.2.1.3.1

              You’ve no idea what I do or do not do with regards ‘sidelines’ and ‘involvement’ Karen.

              It’s fairly lazy to throw ad homs because a level of ‘cognitive dissonance’ within an organisation has observed and remarked on…much harder to engage in discussion and explore the ramifications of that disconnect though – or to seek ways to bridge the gaps between thoughts and actions, aye?

              But fuck it, you’re right. Far better and much more comfortable to just stand by and unconditionally cheer on our team regardless. Because life’s much easier when we reduce our individual critical faculties to the level of those three senseless wee monkeys and then just revel in a simplified world of black and white.

              • Karen

                You are right Bill, I don’t know what you do. It is just an impression I get from your contributions here, which seem to me to be overwhelmingly critical.

                Of course I don’t think you (or anyone else) should be just a cheerleader – but I often don’t even read your posts or comments because they usually are so negative. I get the frustration and the despair – I feel often it myself – but it isn’t productive I find. Maybe it works for you.

                • Bill

                  Frustration and realism, not despair.

                  As for ‘negative’ posts, well the last one was on not allowing the theft of water from the S. Island. Is that negative?

                  “Trumping Idiocy” was seeing the opportunity that Trump presents with regards GW.

                  “Mosul and Aleppo” was highlighting the hypocrisy of msm.

                  “CIA Hacking Tools” – again, highlighting msm bullshit

                  “Encouraging Signs” – on TOPs attempt at better democratic representation

                  “Heroes” – self explanatory.

                  But hey. You find it all that negative? That’s okay, no-one’s going to make you read the stuff and there are plenty of other, and more prolific, posters around.

        • Andre 2.3.2.2

          Flettner rotors do not require wind to usefully propel a boat? Please explain to me how that works.

          Keep in mind I’m an engineer that’s had reason to do Magnus effect calculations.

          • Bill 2.3.2.2.1

            Begging your pardon. Yes, in the doldrums, flettner rotors would not be able to create the pressure differential.

    • Nick Young 2.4

      Hi Bill –

      Yes Taitu runs on diesel. We explored all options, but in the time that we had, within the budget we had, and to do the job at hand, this was the best option.

      Some say this is hypocritical but if you think about it, there is no hypocrisy in working towards a society that’s free of oil while you live in an oil-dependent society. In fact, it’s all we can do. A precondition for hypocrisy is choice – and it is choice we are fighting for.

      If we are to transition away from oil, we must fight for, and enact policies to end oil dependency even while we are hooked on oil.

      The allegation that we are hypocrites for opposing oil implies that we have no right to do anything towards being oil free until we are actually oil free and that is clearly ridiculous.

      If we fall for this so-called hypocrisy argument, it guarantees that we can never do anything towards being free of our oil dependency. It’s no wonder that the oil industry, oil drilling advocates and their trolls love the hypocrisy argument.

      People once wore clothes made of cotton picked by slaves. But that did not make them hypocrites when they joined the abolition movement. It just meant that they were also part of the slave economy, and they knew it. That is why they acted to change the system, not just their clothes.

      We all do what we can do to lessen our environmental footprint but that alone is not enough. We have to challenge the system that locks us into oil dependency.

      (We’ll also convert Taitu to run on waste vegetable oil.)

      • Bill 2.4.1

        HI Nick – thanks for the response.

        If you care to read my initial comment, you’ll see that I wasn’t accusing Greenpeace of hypocrisy, but lamenting the fact that a more penetrative and broader fund raising campaign wasn’t engaged in – one that would have put a forceful GW message right into the public arena.

        As I commented by way of follow-up, even if that campaign had failed to secure a non-fossil vessel, it would have succeeded in terms of messaging.

        You may also notice from other comments that I support anti-oil initiatives.

        So yeah – your response is a bit of a straw man really, but hey.

        By way of your bracketed end note – do you (ie – Greenpeace) acknowledge that bio-fuels (from a western or Annex 1 perspective) can only be used in the very, very short term and essentially have no part to play in a world that’s serious about seeking to avoid 2 degrees C?

      • Poission 2.4.2

        (We’ll also convert Taitu to run on waste vegetable oil.)

        Palm or GMO canola?

      • weka 2.4.3

        Nice one Nick. It’d be great to hear more about the vegetables oil conversion at some point.

    • Steve Abel 2.5

      Hi Bill,
      Taitu is powered by bio diesel and after this mission we’ll refit for biofuel (needs some time as it cleans out the engine).

      The boat is 81 years old and the cost of buying a relatively cheap second hand boat and re-purposing it is orders of magnitude less costly than building from scratch. And much quicker. You also save on the embedded carbon cost of new materials. Re-purposing is a good thing.

      We have built from scratch once with the third Rainbow Warrior – the only purpose built boat in the GP fleet – a sailboat with a hybrid electric and diesel engine. But it cost literally millions. It is a much bigger boat and will last decades of course so a good investment but one that required the global organisation.

      We need whole-of-society action on fossil fuels and even if Greenpeace itself was 100% fossil free it wouldn’t save us. If we focused on being pure ourselves we might succeed but to what end? We believe our purpose is to compel system change and a rapid transition of the whole of society to clean energy systems by campaigning and movement building.

      We get accused of hypocrisy (usually a cheap shot – though i don’t think in this instance) but we’re doing what we believe is the most effective use of our time and relatively limited resources (by comparison with governments or the oil industry) to get the widespread urgent action on climate change that we all need if we are to avoid a hellish existence.

      Thanks,
      Steve Abel (Greenpeace NZ)

      • Bill 2.5.1

        Hi Steve –

        I appreciate buying second hand is much, much cheaper than building from scratch and all the rest of it. And I’m fully aware that radical systemic changes across the whole of society is necessary with regards any prospect of a sub 2 degree C future: that merely transitioning to clean energy systems will fail due to time constraints. (ie – the time available between now and 2 degrees C, as calculated from IPCC carbon budgets and present emissions, just isn’t long enough to allow us to build those clean energy systems).

        My point (again) was I thought and think it a shame that Greenpeace missed the opportunity to run a public campaign that secured a boat while also getting a fundamental and quite powerful message about GW into the public arena.

        If I can expand just briefly.

        Lets go back in time a little way and imagine Greenpeace says it wants a truly green boat and explains the GW reasoning behind that. Going on the ‘less than optimal’ result of that campaign, the fund raising falls short and a boat like the Taitu is purchased.

        Well, public awareness has been raised substantially. Greenpeace has demonstrated its commitment to being fossil free (and can wear a certain badge of pride even though it falls short). And afterwards, when the oil industry and others turn around (as they will) and throw those cheap shots about how Greenpeace are hypocrites, Greenpeace’s arse is covered. They don’t have to fall back on defensive arguments (like Nick above), but can point to their genuine effort to be ‘squeaky clean’ – essentially getting another bite at the cherry every time that cheap shot is made.

        Ie – just solid messaging and good propaganda.

        And as a postscript, if you’d care to respond to the question asked of Nick (above) about Greenpeace’s take on the place for bio-fuel in any scenario aiming for sub 2 degrees, I’d appreciate it.

        • Steve Abel 2.5.1.2

          Yeah i think biofuels are a useful transition (among a suite of other strategies) which allows us to do the sort of thing we are with Taitu – keep an old diesel engine going for a little longer rather than just scrap the whole thing or do an expensive re-fit.

          Biofuels are inherently risky too in terms of how and where they are produced. using arable land for growing fuel instead of food is not something Greenpeace supports. NZ is in an unusual position of having some options in terms of wood waste from plantation forestry for producing liquid fuel alternatives to fossil fuels and we could have a substantial domestic industry substituting middle east oil for local biofuel and reduce our multi-billion dollar oil deficit in the bargain.

          Steve

          • Bill 2.5.1.2.1

            I’ll try to keep this very brief.

            Through Agreements signed up to at Paris and Copenhagen etc, we’ve committed to keeping average surface temperatures to below 2 degrees C, basing action to achieve that on science and equity, yes?

            That’s means (using IPCC carbon budgets and current CO2 emissions) that countries viewed as being of the west or annex 1 or OECD need to fully decarbonise all energy by around 2035 for the world to have just a 1 in 3 chance of avoiding 2 degrees C.

            Bio-fuels produce CO2 and the physics of AGW doesn’t differentiate between CO2 sources – CO2 accumulating in the atmosphere has the same effect no matter the source.

            And it is not technically feasible to build or construct a renewable energy supply, even for current levels of energy use before 2035.

            In other words, there’s a forced disconnect rather than the possibility of a transition.

            We need to reduce emissions now (the calculation is in the order of 15% per year) down to zero by 2035 and be laying in that renewable supply.

            Bio-fuels (even if all the logistical and ethical issues involved were resolved) essentially have no role to play. (Yes, we could ‘swap out’ fossil for bio in the context of reducing our over all emissions, but we can’t substitute fossil for bio on the back on some notion that bio-fuels have no impact or only a benign impact on levels of atmospheric CO2 )

            Maybe I should do a fully referenced post on this…

            • weka 2.5.1.2.1.1

              A post would be good.

              At first glance I’d say there’s some interim use from using biofuels from existing waste streams, and probably from certain kinds of intentionally grown material that also sequesters carbon.

              (which leads me at least into the debate about burning firewood sustainably, and that thing about how reaching for zero on its own is not enough, we need to design systems that are truly sustainable as part of that).

              • Bill

                At first glance I’d say there’s some interim use from using biofuels from existing waste streams…

                Well yes, and I said that in the preceding comment (swapping out some fossil for bio in the context of over-all reductions)

                and probably from certain kinds of intentionally grown material that also sequesters carbon.

                Which then releases its sequestrated CO2 into the atmosphere when combusted thereby adding to the accumulated levels of atmospheric CO2. The theoretical way around that is BECCS (Bio Energy Carbon Capture and Storage) which is fraught to say the least and which Greenpeace (to their credit) rejects as an option.

                I’ve personally never claimed or suggested that zero carbon from energy is sufficient, merely that it’s necessary. No scientific paper, nor scientist, nor other person speaking on AGW who has the ability to spell “IQ” has, to my knowledge, claimed that getting emissions to zero is sufficient either.

      • weka 2.5.2

        Thanks for clarifying Steve. I especially liked the bit about embedded carbon costs of new materials, something not looked at nearly enough.

  3. JC 3

    I think you Fucked up Bill. There’s idealism and there’s action! Best you stay ashore where it’s warm and dry. Then you can theorise to your hearts content… and then deliberate how it could be Best done…

    https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#search/greenpeace/15abaf196b056e01

    Then get back in a decade or two! When it’s weigh Too Late!

    Taitu!

  4. David Millar 4

    Ask yourself, if the world was cooling would “big oil” be the hero not the villain?

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  • Week That Was: Another week of major progress
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    4 days ago
  • Green Party opposes RMA fast-track bill that cut corners on environmental safeguards and public cons...
    The Green Party has opposed the COVID-19 Recovery Fast-track Consenting Bill which shortcuts normal consenting processes under the Resource Management Act (RMA), reduces public participation and narrows environmental considerations. ...
    5 days ago
  • Site of new freight hub revealed
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister of Regional Economic Development A regional freight hub for the lower North Island will be built just northeast of Palmerston North, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The Government is investing $40 million through the Provincial Growth Fund to designate and buy land and design ...
    6 days ago
  • Greens call for Guaranteed Minimum Income to alleviate skyrocketing debt with MSD
    Green Party Co-leader Marama Davidson is calling for the introduction of a Guaranteed Minimum Income to lift hundreds of thousands of people out of poverty and prevent more families entering into further debt with the Ministry of Social Development.  ...
    6 days ago
  • Winston Peters: Facts matter when taxpayer money is on the line
    There has been renewed focus on New Zealand First acting as a handbrake on the Government after our decision to not support Auckland light rail. We are a handbrake for bad ideas, that is true, but our track record since 2017 has seen New Zealand First constructively also serve as an ...
    6 days ago
  • Bill raising minimum residency requirement for NZ Super passes first reading
    Mark Patterson MP, New Zealand First List MP New Zealand First’s Fair Residency for Superannuation Bill passed its First Reading in Parliament today. The Bill makes a significant change to NZ Super by raising the minimum residency requirement from 10 to 20 years, after age 20. “Currently, a migrant of ...
    6 days ago
  • Harsher penalties for assaults on first responders one step closer
    Darroch Ball MP, Spokesperson for Law and Order A New Zealand First member’s bill in the name of Darroch Ball introducing a six-month minimum prison sentence for assaults on first responders has passed its second reading in Parliament. The new offence of "injuring a first responder or corrections officer with ...
    6 days ago
  • Criminal Cases Review Commission delivers Coalition promise
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    6 days ago
  • Greens welcome huge new investment in sustainable projects
    The Green Party is celebrating over $800m in new funding for green projects, which will get people into jobs while solving New Zealand’s long-term challenges. ...
    7 days ago
  • New Zealand First demands answers from Meridian Energy
    Mark Patterson MP, Spokesperson for Primary Industries New Zealand First is appalled that Meridian seems to have been unnecessarily spilling water from its dams to drive up its profits."While New Zealanders have been coming together in some of our darkest hours, we don’t expect power gentailers to waste water and ...
    1 week ago
  • Getting New Zealand moving again: June 2020
    We wrapped up the first half of 2020 with a busy month, taking additional steps to support New Zealanders as we continue with our economic recovery. We rolled out targeted packages to support key industries like tourism and construction, helped create jobs in the environmental and agriculture sectors, and set ...
    1 week ago
  • Māori union leader appointed to Infrastructure Commission board
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Infrastructure Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has welcomed the appointment of Maurice Davis and his deep infrastructure and construction experience to the board of the Infrastructure Commission. Mr Davis (Ngāti Maniapoto), is the seventh and final appointment to the board led by former Reserve Bank Governor ...
    1 week ago
  • Click-bait journalism at its worst
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First New Zealand’s click bait journalism is taking a turn for the worse, with yet another example of sensationalist, wilful-misrepresentation of the facts. “New Zealand First has worked constructively with its Coalition partner on hundreds of pieces of legislation and policy, and ...
    1 week ago
  • Green Party proposes transformational Poverty Action Plan
    The Green Party is today unveiling its Poverty Action Plan, which includes a Guaranteed Minimum Income to ensure people have enough to live with dignity.     ...
    1 week ago
  • PGF accelerates Rotorua projects
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister Fletcher Tabuteau MP, Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development The Rotorua Museum redevelopment and Whakarewarewa and Tokorangi Forest projects will be accelerated thanks to a $2.09 million Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) boost, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Week That Was: Getting people into jobs
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    2 weeks ago
  • Coalition commitment establishing Mental Health Commission delivered
    Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First welcomes the passage of the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission Bill through its final reading in Parliament today fulfilling a coalition agreement commitment. “This is an important step in saving the lives of New Zealanders and delivers a key coalition commitment ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Whakatāne gets a $2.5m ‘turbo boost’
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    2 weeks ago
  • $2.5m PGF funding to speed up economic recovery in Whakatāne
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister Fletcher Tabuteau MP, Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing $2.5 million to accelerate three infrastructure projects in Whakatāne, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. “This package is about ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Shane Jones calls out those holding drought-stricken Auckland ‘to ransom’ over water
    Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones is throwing his weight behind a bid by the Auckland Council to fast-track the more than doubling of the city's water allowance from the Waikato River. And he's coming out strongly against anyone who plans on getting in the way of this campaign. "It is my ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another Green win as climate change considerations inserted into the RMA
    The Green Party is thrilled to see changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that mean consents for large projects can be declined if they will have significant climate change implications that are inconsistent with the Zero Carbon Act and Aotearoa New Zealand’s Paris Agreement obligations.  ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Navy vessel Aotearoa to arrive in New Zealand
    Hon Ron Mark, Minister of Defence The Royal New Zealand Navy’s new ship, Aotearoa, set sail for New Zealand on 10 June from the Republic of Korea, and is due to arrive in Auckland tomorrow, announced Minister of Defence Ron Mark. “Aotearoa is the Royal New Zealand Navy’s new fleet ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Racing Industry Bill passes third reading
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister for Racing Racing Minister Winston Peters has today welcomed the Racing Industry Bill passing its third reading, creating the legislative framework for revitalising the racing industry while limiting the need for future government intervention. “For too long our domestic racing industry has ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Green Party seek amendment to ensure all prisoners can vote
    The Green Party has today put forward an amendment to the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill to ensure all people in prisons can vote in general elections. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Green Party welcomes new approach to delivering light rail
    The Green Party welcomes the decision to not proceed with Public Public Investment (PPI) delivery of Auckland’s light rail project and to instead run the process through the public service. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand First welcomes PGF investment in Wairarapa Water
    Hon Ron Mark, New Zealand First List MP based in the Wairarapa New Zealand First List MP Hon Ron Mark welcomes the announcement of Provincial Growth Funding investment of $1.4 million to help secure the Wairarapa’s water supply. The funding boost will allow the Greater Wellington Regional Council (GWRC), and ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand First MP Mark Patterson selected as candidate for Taieri
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    2 weeks ago
  • Ground-breaking on NZ Post depot
    Hon Shane Jones, Associate Minister for State Owned Enterprises A new ‘super depot’ to be built for NZ Post in Wellington will create around 350 jobs during construction, Associate Minister for State Owned Enterprises Shane Jones says. Shane Jones today attended a ground-breaking and blessing ceremony for the parcel-processing depot ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Week That Was: Putting our economic plan into action
    Our strong economic management prior to COVID-19 - with surpluses, low debt and near-record-low unemployment - put us in a good position to weather the impact of the virus and start to rebuild our economy much earlier than many other countries. Now we're putting our plan to recover and rebuild ...
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  • Fleeing drivers hit new record-high yet again
    Darroch Ball MP, New Zealand First Spokesperson for Law and Order Recently released Police fleeing driver statistics have shown yet another increase in incidents with another record-high in the latest quarter. “This new quarterly record-high is the latest in a string of record-high numbers since 2014.  The data shows incidents ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Fletcher Tabuteau selected as candidate for Rotorua
    New Zealand First MP Fletcher Tabuteau is pleased to be confirmed today as the party’s candidate for the Rotorua electorate. Speaking at the Rotorua AGM for New Zealand First, Mr Tabuteau said this is an election that is incredibly important for the people of Rotorua. “The founding principles of New ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Greens call for Government office to address Rainbow issues following Human Rights Commission report
    The Human Rights Commission’s PRISM report on the issues impacting people based on their sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, and sex characteristics (SOGIESC) provides an excellent programme of work for future governments to follow, say the Greens. ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Winston Peters continues push for trans-Tasman travel as military take control of operations
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters said the trans-Tasman bubble had not been jeopardised after a border botch-up resulted in New Zealand having two active cases of COVID-19. On Friday, Mr Peters told RNZ's Morning Report he had heard from Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison that borders for trans-Tasman travel would open by ...
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  • Winston Peters on the Government’s Covid-19 border blunder
    Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters said today he was pleased the army was now running the quarantine and isolation process - up until now it has been the Ministry of Health. Peters told Newstalk ZB's Mike Hosking that the army knew how to introduce and follow protocols and instil discipline. ...
    3 weeks ago

  • Relief for temporary migrants, employers and New Zealanders who need work
    The Government is making immediate short-term changes to visa settings to support temporary migrants already onshore in New Zealand and their employers, while also ensuring New Zealanders needing work are prioritised, Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. We are: Extending temporary work visas due to expire by the end of 2020 ...
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    6 hours ago
  • Freshwater commissioners and fast-track consenting convenor appointed
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    8 hours ago
  • Appointment of Judge of the High Court
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    8 hours ago
  • Feedback sought – Commercial Film and Video Production Facilities
    The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to better enable the development and operation of commercial film and video facilities in Christchurch. The Proposal, developed by Regenerate Christchurch in response to a request from Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section ...
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    11 hours ago
  • Govt launches bold primary sector plan to boost economic recovery
    The Government has launched a bold plan to boost primary sector export earnings by $44 billion over the next decade, while protecting the environment and growing jobs. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today released Fit for a Better World – Accelerating our Economic Potential, a 10-year roadmap to unlock greater value ...
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    12 hours ago
  • Wellbeing of whanau at heart of new hub
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    15 hours ago
  • New Report on Auckland Port Relocation
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    15 hours ago
  • Dual place names for Te Pātaka-o-Rākaihautū / Banks Peninsula features
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  • Government and Air New Zealand agree to manage incoming bookings
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    15 hours ago
  • $80 million for sport recovery at all levels
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    15 hours ago
  • Keeping ACC levies steady until 2022
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    1 day ago
  • Extended loan scheme keeps business afloat
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    2 days ago
  • New investment creates over 2000 jobs to clean up waterways
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    2 days ago
  • Speech to Labour Party Congress 2020
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  • PGF top-up for QE Health in Rotorua
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    5 days ago
  • Building a more sustainable construction sector
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    5 days ago
  • PGF funds tourism boost in Northland
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    5 days ago
  • Four new projects announced as part of the biggest ever national school rebuild programme
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  • COVID-19: Support to improve student attendance and wellbeing
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    5 days ago
  • Fast-track consenting law boosts jobs and economic recovery
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  • Whanganui Port gets PGF boost
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  • More support for Sarjeant Gallery
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  • Funding for training and upskilling
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  • Statement from the Minister of Health Dr David Clark
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  • Scholarship placements for agricultural emissions scientists doubles
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  • Funding for Foxton regeneration
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  • Plan to improve protection of moa bones
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  • Free lunches served up to thousands of school children in the South Island
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  • New fund to help save local events and jobs
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  • Bill to improve fuel market competition
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  • New Zealand joins global facility for pre-purchase of COVID-19 Vaccine
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  • Right to legal representation in Family Court restored today
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  • Transitioning to a fully-qualified home-based ECE workforce
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    7 days ago
  • Criminal Cases Review Commission gets to work
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  • Speech by the Minister of Defence to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs
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    7 days ago
  • Infrastructure investment to create jobs, kick-start COVID rebuild
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    7 days ago
  • Statement on passage of national security law for Hong Kong
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  • July 1 marks progress for workers, families
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