Greens stand aside in Ōhāriu

114 comments on “Greens stand aside in Ōhāriu ”

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1. Nick 1

   14 February 2017 at 8:55 am

   Quite agree…. The ball is in Labours court. Let’s hope they demonstrate the same team approach.
2. Infused 2

   14 February 2017 at 8:55 am

   Dirty deals are ok when the left do it then? That’s pretty funny.
   • r0b 2.1

     14 February 2017 at 8:59 am

     And once again Infused pretends not to understand the difference between gifting a seat to a loser to create a pretend support party, and standing aside in a seat you can’t win to strengthen a formal coalition. That’s pretty funny.
     • AB 2.1.1

       14 February 2017 at 11:59 am

       Quite. The test for the ‘dirtiness’ of any deal is whether, if successful, it will distort the proportionality of parliament and violate the principles of MMP.

       The Labour/Greens stand aside has no effect on the proportionality of parliament. Both parties still end up with exactly the same number of MPs as determined by their party vote.

       The Epsom deal on the other hand gifts a seat to a bogus, micro-party that would not pass the party vote threshold and would not otherwise make it into parliament. National therefore get the number of MPs determined by their party vote PLUS one additional MP (David Seymour) from a bogus, micro party that exists solely as a vehicle to violate the principles of MMP.

       Infused knows this – but continues to repeat the same lie that National and its media enablers will feed to the public
       • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.1

         14 February 2017 at 1:37 pm

         I’d go further: if the Labour/Greens deal does get rid of Dunne, whose party has 0% support, it will actually improve the proportionality of Parliament.
         • AB 2.1.1.1.1

           14 February 2017 at 4:24 pm

           Agreed – good point. So rather than a ‘dirty’ deal it’s the opposite: a ‘clean-up’ deal.
         • Sally's Husband 2.1.1.1.2

           14 February 2017 at 8:28 pm

           Interesting point, Milt. Hadn’t considered that.
       • NewsFlash 2.1.1.2

         14 February 2017 at 10:45 pm

         +1

         Thanks for the clarification, rw’s have a tendency of trying to put a spin on their own corrupt activities, they honestly believe that their honest, lol.
     • Richard McGrath 2.1.2

       14 February 2017 at 6:19 pm

       There’s nothing dirty about either deal.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.2.1

         14 February 2017 at 6:31 pm

         From the link in the OP:

         Labour leader Andrew Little said the Green move would be very helpful to O’Connor but he said the Greens had not consulted with Labour before making the decision, though they had told Labour before making it public.

         Shaw said the call was made “after many discussions” in the party, which would still campaign strongly for the party vote in Ohariu.

         So either there was no deal, in which case there was nothing to be dirty, or both Party leaders are lying, which would be dirty.

         Did you mean to accuse them of lying or did you simply not read the article?

         I’m picking both.
   • Bearded Git 2.2

     14 February 2017 at 9:18 am

     @infused
     Crusher had the chance to get rid of the “one-seat gives you a political party” rule a few years ago but chose to ignore the many public submissions and the recommendation resulting from these.

     It is Ms. Collins’ fault, so tough bikkies.
     • Leftie 2.2.1

       14 February 2017 at 10:02 pm

       What would have National done, if it hadn’t of had coat tailing?
   • weka 2.3

     14 February 2017 at 9:36 am

     Where’s the deal exactly? Looks like the Green Party making a unilateral decision for the good of the party and NZ. If you think there is some kind of trade being done here between Labour and the Greens I’d like to see how that is happening.
     • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1

       14 February 2017 at 11:25 am

       +1
     • adam 2.3.2

       14 February 2017 at 12:44 pm

       Most green party members I know have been quite vocal on this happening for some time. Well before the last election I recall, shorty after the one before, if my pub conversations are to be remembered.
   • adam 2.4

     14 February 2017 at 12:42 pm

     From a party supporter of Dirty politics, the giggles are rich today infused.
   • reason 2.5

     14 February 2017 at 1:05 pm

     Poor ol Infused has the workings of MMP and Hagermans donations to the national party mixed up ………

     my own judgement of this MMP maneuvering …. based on being mature enough to know the past actions of both the Ohariu contenders …..

     I think voters there have been given the choice between a pig and a rat

     …..a boar and a hair-piece

     An Overt Authoritarian and a sneaky submissive authoritarian

     Almost the only good thing I can say about Greg O’connor ……./ is at least there are no question marks hanging over his head about abusing or torturing prisoners in Iraq ………….. unlike nationals police representative …. mark ‘bite em till they scream’ mitchell

     And Sabins stains are still there with the nats ……… in their housing corp eviction progrom
   • Gabby 2.6

     14 February 2017 at 3:53 pm

     Who’s the nats candidate?
     • Leftie 2.6.1

       14 February 2017 at 10:11 pm

       List MP Brett Hudson had been selected for National.

       “So we wouldn’t be looking to change that.”

       <a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89402505/greens-give-oconnor-a-hand-up-in-ohariu–but-shy-away-from-personal-endorsement
   • Sally's Husband 2.7

     14 February 2017 at 8:27 pm

     “Dirty deals are ok when the left do it then? That’s pretty funny.”

     Not very funny at all. It seems “dirty deals” are fine for the Right, but not for the Left. That’s what you’re really saying ‘Infused’?

     So when we’re play by the same rules your side has adopted, that’s “pretty funny” to you? Ok, noted. Let me look up the definition of hypocrisy, just to make sure it applies to your side as well as us. Ok by you, sunshine?
3. Anne 3

   14 February 2017 at 9:35 am

   Putting aside misgivings for the sake of the greater good is a mark of political maturity which many politicians and commentators could learn from. And in the interests of reciprocity, hey Labour – ball’s in your court.

   10/10 to the Greens.

   Lets hopes some in Labour who have been crowing loud and long in recent times might learn a lesson from them.
   • Leftie 3.1

     14 February 2017 at 10:14 pm

     Indeed +1000 Anne, and well done to the Greens, they are working strategically to change the government.
4. roy cartland 4

   14 February 2017 at 10:01 am

   I/S won’t be happy:
   http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/if-greg-oconnor-is-answer-wtf-was.html

   Gotta say, I’d find it hard to vote for him, even to change the gov.

   Polite request for further comment: Is winning with less than desirable candidates all that better than losing with ideal ones? And why is it hard to have both?
   • weka 4.1

     14 February 2017 at 10:12 am

     The Greens have zero control over who Labour chooses as candidates. Given that is true, what do you think the Greens should do? Personally, I think I/S is being more idiot than savant if he thinks it’s worth losing the election over one candidate. If that was my electorate I’d vote for whoever was going to get Dunne out. That’s a big service to do for the left and for politics in NZ in general.

     What I like about the MoU between the two parties is that they kept their independence. Labour are still free to act in the ways they see fit. They’re not a left wing party. So WJ and GO are intentional plays for certain kinds of votes, both of which are problematic for those of us further left than Labour, but will probably help Labour win. The great thing about WJ is that more people will vote Green. Let’s hope that lefties in Ohāriu don’t squander that by gifting the seat to Dunne.
     • roy cartland 4.1.1

       14 February 2017 at 10:53 am

       Thanks, good answer. I remember during the Epsom debacle wondering how horrified I’d be at having to vote for Goldsmith (over LAB or GRE); only for it to become clear afterward that they could have gotten rid of the ACT party by doing so. Hindsight, etc etc.

       After all this time, the ‘tactical’ option still tastes funny.
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         14 February 2017 at 11:16 am

         It is odd. I know that I probably wouldn’t have to think too hard about voting GO to get rid of Dunne. But if it was WJ instead? Or maybe David Shearer and he was campaigning on his bash a disabled person platform? It’s hard to say, but I’d probably suck it up and still vote strategically. I’d probably write posts on TS about what a fuckwit Shearer was being but how we should still vote for him 😈
     • mosa 4.1.2

       14 February 2017 at 2:38 pm

       Couldn’t agree more Weka.

       This is a prime example of the MOU in effect and is a tactical necessity and just plain common sense.

       Green voters in Ohariu will ‘hold there noses’ and vote for Greg knowing that it will help “change the government”.

       United Future is close to death and just waiting to be put out of its misery.
       • Leftie 4.1.2.1

         14 February 2017 at 10:37 pm

         “This is a prime example of the MOU in effect and is a tactical necessity and just plain common sense.”

         “Green voters in Ohariu will ‘hold there noses’ and vote for Greg knowing that it will help “change the government”.

         Spot on Mosa, this is the strategy, this is what it is all about!!

         There is no deal, there is no dirty deal. The MoU gives transparency. The Labs/Greens working together, whilst remaining independent of each other, have a common goal of changing the government, and this has been well publicized, particularly by the recent joint held state of the nation.

         Whether people like the selected candidates or not, whether a candidate stands or not, the point is, is that Labour and the Greens are working strategically to kick out National. And I am all for that!
         • mosa 4.1.2.1.1

           15 February 2017 at 7:23 pm

           Yeah Leftie the key word is “transparency”.

           And that will make a massive change to what we have been getting under the tories and should be a campaign issue going into September about what transparent government will look like.
   • Bearded Git 4.2

     14 February 2017 at 11:23 am

     You have a choice of voting for O’Connor or 3 more years of this lot. Not a tough choice really.
     • Leftie 4.2.1

       14 February 2017 at 10:41 pm

       Completely agree with you Bearded Git!!
   • bwaghorn 4.3

     14 February 2017 at 11:33 am

     ” Is winning with less than desirable candidates all that better than losing with ideal ones? ”
     maybe you should ask voters who didn’t vote clinton because the didn’t get Sanders who now have trump
     • Incognito 4.3.1

       14 February 2017 at 10:23 pm

       If the question boils down to just winning vs. losing and the required sacrifices then that would be a fair answer but if it is about comparing the quality of the candidates it is a false equivalence to juxtapose the US Presidential Election with our General Election IMO.
   • Andre 4.4

     14 February 2017 at 11:40 am

     If I were an Ohariu voter faced with that unpalatable choice, I’d take a good look at O’Connor’s statements since leaving his Police Association role, and think hard about whether I’d prefer him to Dunne. Because those are by far the two likeliest winners.

     Chances are I’d be less unhappy voting for O’Connor. That O’Connor winning the electorate helps change the government by denying an overhang seat to Dunne would just be a bonus.
5. Cinny 5

   14 February 2017 at 10:25 am

   MMP for the win 😀 Clever, clever Greens 😀 THANK YOU LEFT IS BEST

   I firmly believe the Greens will get their greatest party vote ever this election, and it is well deserved.
   • James Thrace 5.1

     14 February 2017 at 12:42 pm

     Not really that clever imo.

     This announcement gives Nats and Dunne plenty of time to play chicken. Nat + Dunne candidate vote (13569 + 6120 = 19689) still easily bests L+G candidate vote (12859+2764 = 15623).

     The smarter move would have been to agree behind close doors and kept everyone guessing right up till after nominations closed.

     Now the Nats will feel more comfortable about not standing a candidate, so they can keep Dunne in.

     Bloody amateur hour in LabGreen camp. Has anyone there ever seen House of Cards? Muppets.
     • weka 5.1.1

       14 February 2017 at 12:50 pm

       In other words, you want the Greens to do dirty backroom deals like NACT. I think you missed the point. This isn’t an announcement from the G/L camp. It’s the Greens doing what is right.

       It will be interesting to see if National don’t stand anyone, or if they stand someone and tell their voters to vote for someone else instead.
       • Infused 5.1.1.1

         14 February 2017 at 12:54 pm

         The deals already done.
         • weka 5.1.1.1.1

           14 February 2017 at 1:00 pm

           What deal?
           • James Thrace 5.1.1.1.1.1

             14 February 2017 at 1:16 pm

             the “dirty backroom deal”

             By not standing a candidate, it’s a backroom deal. MOU or not.

             Should have kept it silent rather than trumpet from the rooftops.

             Amateur hour.
             • weka …

               14 February 2017 at 1:35 pm

               I think you are confused about what the word ‘deal’ means.
             • Leftie …

               14 February 2017 at 10:45 pm

               Panicked much James Thrace? This is not National and Act. There is no dirty backroom deal.
             • mikesh …

               15 February 2017 at 8:43 am

               I would be splitting my vote anyway, not because of any “deal”, but because a Green candidate would have virtually no chance of winning the seat. This is different from Epsom where the National candidate would probably win if National’s supporters had been instructed to vote for him.
     • Cinny 5.1.2

       14 February 2017 at 4:06 pm

       James, National are standing a candidate there, Brett Hudson. Will they be instructing their party faithful to vote for another candidate, like they did with Epsom?

       There is no deal, Greens made a choice, they want change and are pro-active about doing so.

       James with around ten Nat MP’s not seeking re-election this year, have there been any announcements on who will be standing to replace them? We’ve heard many stories in the media about the candidates for Labour and Greens, but hardly even a whisper about new nat candidates. Is that because they have none?
       • James Thrace 5.1.2.1

         14 February 2017 at 4:34 pm

         Cinny, the nominations for Ohariu haven’t even opened, much less closed.

         The point remains:

         By giving National some 6 months to formulate how best to respond to the fact only one challenger is up against Dunne, gives them far more leeway to work out how to minimise the threat posed by GOC.

         That remains the sore point. Rather than keep National guessing which electorates are going to be left to Labour or Green or Both, the “left” are shooting themselves in the foot by publicly announcing their tactics giving the hard right more time to beat it.

         You don’t go all in at the beginning of a high stakes poker game – that’s what Lab/Grn are doing with this type of carryon.

         Ohariu is now Labours to lose.
         • weka 5.1.2.1.1

           14 February 2017 at 5:48 pm

           You object to the GP’s honesty, but it’s why some of us vote for them.

           When to National Ohariu nominations close?
         • Cinny 5.1.2.1.2

           14 February 2017 at 7:22 pm

           No I still disagree with you James.

           Announcing candidates too late in the game, breeds mistrust within voters and limits the time frame candidates have to convince others to trust them, get to know them and vote for them.

           Candidate confirmation late in the game shows a lack of motivation and the appearance of declining popularity and disorganisation of, in this case, the national party.

           Where are their candidates? And when will they be announced? Do you know please James?
           • Leftie 5.1.2.1.2.1

             14 February 2017 at 10:56 pm

             Well said and asked Cinny!!
         • Leftie 5.1.2.1.3

           14 February 2017 at 10:54 pm

           James Thrace. National is standing the same candidate as last time.

           “List MP Brett Hudson had been selected for National.”
           “So we wouldn’t be looking to change that.”

           <a ="http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89402505/greens-give-oconnor-a-hand-up-in-ohariu–but-shy-away-from-personal-endorsement
       • Leftie 5.1.2.2

         14 February 2017 at 10:47 pm

         +1000 Cinny, good points.
       • mikesh 5.1.2.3

         15 February 2017 at 8:46 am

         In 2014 Brett Hudson was telling his supporters that he was only interested in the party vote.
6. tangled_up 6

   14 February 2017 at 11:04 am

   Green co-leader James Shaw said the decision was taken in the interests of changing the Government, which was the party’s priority.

   This.
   • weka 6.1

     14 February 2017 at 11:18 am

     Yes! Nice to see the Greens to clear on this and presenting it so well.
7. Tarquin 7

   14 February 2017 at 11:21 am

   It’s a funny old world when the Greens support someone who they disagree with on so many subjects. Particularly in a seat they did so well in last time. I don’t agree with the Greens on a lot of things, but I have voted for them in the past and have always admired them for sticking to their principles. Clearly they don’t count for much anymore in the pursuit of power.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.1

     14 February 2017 at 11:30 am

     And another RWNJ comes in with the concern trolling.
     • Tarquin 7.1.1

       14 February 2017 at 12:59 pm

       Shooting the messenger is easier than being honest, long live the echo chamber.
       • weka 7.1.1.1

         14 February 2017 at 1:02 pm

         And yet you ignore the two comments that critique your comment. Funny that.
         • Tarquin 7.1.1.1.1

           14 February 2017 at 2:49 pm

           I have no problem with the critique, other points of view are what it’s all about. Calling me a RWNJ is insulting and adds nothing to the conversation.
       • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.2

         14 February 2017 at 3:18 pm

         I didn’t see the Greens supporting the Labour candidate. In fact, they specifically said that they had issues with him.

         So, that makes what you said a lie.

         The Greens did quite well in Ōhāriu but not as well as Labour. The two combined would not have unseated Dunne last election.

         The Greens are sticking to their principles. It’s National that doesn’t actually have any and will do anything for power. Unlike National, they’re not telling their voters to vote for the other party.

         So, yeah, you were concern trolling with all the standard lies that come from National’s spin doctors.
     • Richard McGrath 7.1.2

       14 February 2017 at 6:23 pm

       So a Greens voter is a “RWNJ”?
       • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2.1

         14 February 2017 at 7:21 pm

         He didn’t say that he was a Green voter. He said that he’d voted Green in the past in amongst a standard set of RWNJ lies so I took that as just another lie. And that’s what made his comment concern trolling.
         • Tarquin 7.1.2.1.1

           15 February 2017 at 7:58 am

           Draco, I have voted for the Greens several times because I like their environmental ideals. I don’t agree with their socialist agenda. Believe me, I may not be an ardent left winger but I am definitely not a RWNJ! Life would be much easier if you could cherry pick policies and make up a composite party.
           • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2.1.1.1

             15 February 2017 at 1:03 pm

             Life would be much easier if you could cherry pick policies and make up a composite party.

             Participatory democracy where the people choose the policies that parliament then write up would be much better but can you imagine the present system, that’s actually been designed to prevent that, allowing it to happen?
             • Tarquin …

               15 February 2017 at 4:55 pm

               I agree, but as they say our system may be awful but it’s the best around. I think a lot of people go in to politics with the best of intentions and then lose their way. Maybe a two term limit – probably a bit simplistic but time limits tend to get things done.
   • Bearded Git 7.2

     14 February 2017 at 11:30 am

     So who are you going to vote for? National uses the quirks in the MMP system to further its ends; why shouldn’t the Greens? O’Connor will be better than Dunne.

     I am a Green voter with reservations about O’Connor but my guess is O’Connor and Jackson are smart picks by Little in terms of gaining votes, and Labour needs 35% not 25%. The fact that the Greens are being logical in trying to get rid of the awful Dunne strengthens their appeal to me.
   • weka 7.3

     14 February 2017 at 11:33 am

     I’m curious then, if it was a choice between not standing in Ōhāriu, or the Greens standing a good candidate in a seat they can’t win and Dunne regaining that seat and holding the balance of power and choosing a 4th term National govt in part because he wants to keep the Greens out of govt, what do you think the Greens should do? What do you think Green voters should do?
   • Scotty 7.4

     14 February 2017 at 12:45 pm

     Cheer up, Tarquin – You’re right the Greens do not share your principles – you’re probably best to keep voting for the National party – Tarkwin – oops sorry Tarquin Nth –
     sorry I keep getting you mixed up with another highly principled National Party voter, that has similar concerns to you.
     Funny world indeed.
     • Tarquin 7.4.1

       14 February 2017 at 4:52 pm

       Hilarious.
8. McFlock 8

   14 February 2017 at 11:23 am

   Nice
9. Ad 9

   14 February 2017 at 11:27 am

   It’s a seriously unenviable task for the Greens to be designated as Labour’s conscience and guide.
   I sincerely hope that they are ready for that role, not only in the tortuous path to election 2017, but in government. They will need intestinal constitutions made of solid stainless steel.
   • weka 9.1

     14 February 2017 at 11:38 am

     Yeah, that’s the big one for me. Whether they’ve got their internal shit sorted out so that they don’t just do the same old when it comes to coalition formation but instead bring MMP to a new level. There will be enormous pressure on them, from all over the place. Maybe we can think about how to support them to do well.

     “They will need intestinal constitutions made of solid stainless steel.”

     Bamboo perhaps. Tensile strength but flexibility.
     • Ad 9.1.1

       14 February 2017 at 12:22 pm

       I think steel, to stop penetration and corrosion.

       A hard metal handshake inside a green velvet glove.

       If the Coalition wins, Labour will be so focused on housing and infrastructure that there will be more scope for Green Cabinet members at 13-15% to be broader and bolder in their policy targets.

       This is the logic that will peel disaffected Labour activists to change allegiance and voting in 2017.
       • weka 9.1.1.1

         14 February 2017 at 12:30 pm

         “If the Coalition wins, Labour will be so focused on housing and infrastructure that there will be more scope for Green Cabinet members at 13-15% to be broader and bolder in their policy targets.”

         That would be ideal. Best scenario is a high GP vote to get more Green MPs in positions where they can use their talents.
         • roy cartland 9.1.1.1.1

           14 February 2017 at 12:41 pm

           On that note, how far down the list is Golriz? She’d be a serious force in getting some humanity back into NZ politics.
           • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

             14 February 2017 at 12:52 pm

             I don’t know Golriz. Who is she?
             • roy cartland …

               14 February 2017 at 4:27 pm

               She seems cool:
               http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/regional/former-refugee-green-party-candidate-focus-on-rangatahi

               https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/02/golriz-ghahraman-slams-bill-english-over-politics-by-fear.html
       • David C 9.1.1.2

         14 February 2017 at 12:37 pm

         AD.

         You forget one small but important item.

         Anything Greens and Labour want to do are going to need to get Winstons approval first.

         Good luck with that 🙂
         • weka 9.1.1.2.1

           14 February 2017 at 12:51 pm

           How so?
         • Robert Guyton 9.1.1.2.2

           14 February 2017 at 1:02 pm

           David C’s conceding the election to the Left.
           Noted.
           • David C 9.1.1.2.2.1

             14 February 2017 at 1:48 pm

             RG.
             A realistic (but bad for the Right) scenario would be Nat gets 43%, WinstonFirst 12% , Greens 12% , Labour 27% and others and waste 6%.

             Winston has stated he will deal first with the largest , so Nat, and they tell him to take a flying jump as Winston demands deputy PM. (which IMHO is a 50 50 call)

             So then what path do Lab/Gree have but Winston?
             • Brutus Iscariot …

               14 February 2017 at 5:03 pm

               You missed the part where they offer him Deputy instead of deliberately consigning themselves to opposition for 3 years.

               If that’s the scenario, he’ll get what he wants – no ifs, buts or maybes.
               • David C …

                 14 February 2017 at 5:08 pm

                 Bullshit.

                 and I have a quality bottle of single malt riding on this.

                 Its my bet Nats will let Winston hold hands and sing songs around the camp fire with Labour and Greens…

                 It wont last a year.
             • Sacha …

               14 February 2017 at 6:40 pm

               Deputy? With his ego and awareness of limited time remaining, he’d demand PM for at least part of a term. #bauble
         • Enough is Enough 9.1.1.2.3

           14 February 2017 at 1:37 pm

           I am still very concerned about that David.

           It is an entirely foreseeable outcome from the election that the Greens will have to choose one of two bad options.

           Firstly, a choose minority Labour/NZ First government which is supported by the Greens on confidence and supply; or

           Secondly a majority National/NZ First government.

           If Winston hold the balance of power he has the ability to go to the Greens and say:

           “the only way that the government will change is if the Greens support NZ First/Labour from outside of government. If you don’t support that, we will back Bill English.”
           • David C 9.1.1.2.3.1

             14 February 2017 at 1:49 pm

             Enough.
             You think Little will shaft the Greens the way Helen did?
             • Enough is Enough …

               14 February 2017 at 1:54 pm

               When you have a gun to your head your options are limited.

               The choice for Little is take the deal, or sit in opposition and get rolled as leader…

               The choice for the Greens, is give your support to Labour/NZFirst, or watch National destroy the country more.
               • David C …

                 14 February 2017 at 1:59 pm

                 I cant imagine the Greens supporting Labour if Lab went with NZF.
                 It would be the second time of being ignored and the Greens would have to ask them selves why do they exist if they are never going to get into power.

                 Better for Greens to block Lab/NZF and force a new election.
                 • One Anonymous Bloke …

                   14 February 2017 at 2:18 pm

                   That’s what a right winger would like? Duly noted 😆
                   • David C …

                     14 February 2017 at 3:42 pm

                     OAB.
                     If there was another election after say 18 months both Little and English would be looking for new jobs, and likely Winston would be gone.
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     14 February 2017 at 3:54 pm

                     Then you should campaign for one if that’s what you want.
                 • weka …

                   14 February 2017 at 2:26 pm

                   “the Greens would have to ask them selves why do they exist if they are never going to get into power.”

                   They already know. They want change not power.

                   “Better for Greens to block Lab/NZF and force a new election.”

                   How would that even be possible, and if it were why would the Greens risk the anger of the electorate?
                   • David C …

                     14 February 2017 at 3:38 pm

                     weka.

                     list for me what the Greens have achieved for “change’ in the last 30? years while out of power.
                     You will only need a small postage stamp to write it on.

                     If you are in the tent you get stuff done. Out of the tent you are just there to eat your taxpayer funded lunch.
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     14 February 2017 at 4:17 pm

                     So apart from renewable energy, recycling, home insulation, energy efficient appliances, action on CFCs, air and water quality standards, riparian planting, permaculture, water conservation, DOC-maintained campsites, organic produce niche markets, nascent carbon markets, and Sea Shepherd, what have environmentalists ever done for us?

                     Too easy.
                 • Enough is Enough …

                   14 February 2017 at 3:27 pm

                   David that is the issue that needs to be confronted, and a strategy needs to formulated to deal with it.

                   Winston is the issue and if he has the balance of power he can unleash this pretty uncomfortable scenario upon us.

                   How do the Greens influence a NZFirst/Labour government from outside of cabinet?
                   • David C …

                     14 February 2017 at 3:40 pm

                     Enough.
                     The Greens cant get anything done if they are not at the cabinet table.
                     Will Winston let them be there?
                   • Enough is Enough …

                     14 February 2017 at 3:52 pm

                     Agreed.

                     That is why we need to get Labour/Green to position where Winston is not needed.
       • Antoine 9.1.1.3

         14 February 2017 at 12:55 pm

         Assuming Labour offers one or more Cabinet posts…?
10. xanthe 10

    14 February 2017 at 1:30 pm

    well it looks like by putting up greg, labour was able to get the greens to eat a rat.
11. The Chairman 11

    14 February 2017 at 1:36 pm

    Considering their “nothing is off the table” stance, one can’t say this announcement comes as a surprise.
12. saveNZ 12

    14 February 2017 at 1:41 pm

    Bravo to the Greens. Not a fan of O’Conner but someone has to get an enabling leech-like single cell organism out of the swamp.

    I just hope of O’Conner wins he keeps to Labour values and does not take them down the ‘more guns to police’ brigade but instead more Labour traditional values like support police, support community, support justice, PREVENT social crime not be the ambulance at the bottom of the prison system.
13. marty mars 13

    14 February 2017 at 1:56 pm

    For some reason I have a sense of foreboding about this. It seems like everyone is expecting something and that something is different for everyone. Sure the meta – get rid of the gnats will do – but I sense dissapointment in the air for pretty much everyone.
    • weka 13.1

      14 February 2017 at 2:27 pm

      Too may wild cards for my comfort. I do like what Labour and the Greens are each doing, even with the fuck ups.
    • McFlock 13.2

      14 February 2017 at 2:46 pm

      After the last couple of elections, I’m determined to try to zen this one out, expect nothing, dread nothing, hope for nothing, fear nothing, merely adapt to what is, lol
    • bwaghorn 13.3

      14 February 2017 at 7:19 pm

      remember the ‘paddling in different directions meme ‘ last election , the greens and labour seem to have a great counter meme ”change the government’
14. The Pink Postman 14

    14 February 2017 at 3:15 pm

    The obvious answer to David C is to make sure NZ first do not have enough votes to hold the balance. Make sure Labour and Green voters get out .I for one do not want Peters and his bunch of xenophobic populists anywhere near a Labour /Green government
    • David C 14.1

      14 February 2017 at 3:46 pm

      TPP.

      I dont seem many Greens crossing over to NZF but some Labs will, more than a few Nats have and will.

      I think NZF will go far better that ’14, with both Lab and Nat slipping back a bit.
15. Bearded Git 15

    14 February 2017 at 4:43 pm

    Ben Thomas on The Panel (RNZ) is praising the Green’s decision to the rafters right now saying finally the opposition parties are getting their act together.
    • Robert Guyton 15.1

      14 February 2017 at 6:52 pm

      Ben’s got it right. David C’s got it wrong and will rue the loss of his whiskey. He’s filling the “Labour will lose” role for a few days, till we tire of him and his programme. He’s just one of “those” confidence trolls.
16. Michael 16

    14 February 2017 at 8:18 pm

    What concessions has Labour ever made for the Greens? Or is it political maturity only when the Greens give way to Labour?
17. tuppence shrewsbury 17

    15 February 2017 at 8:25 pm

    Can I please ask the difference between this being ok for the greater good of the left and the willie jackson fiasco? is it because this displays external solidarity with potential coalition partners and the willie jackson fiasco was an internal issue? or am I missing something?
18. Robert Guyton 18

    15 February 2017 at 8:33 pm

    The Green’s decision was the Green’s decision, made by themselves for their own reasons. That’s political maturity; they’re that confident in themselves that they can play the game their way. Great moment in time, this.

Links to post

1. What’s the deal? There isn’t one. « The Standard: posted on 17 February 2017 at 7:24 am
2. Election ’17 Countdown: The Strategy of Ohariu « The Daily Blog: posted on 17 February 2017 at 10:39 am
3. Election ’17 Countdown: The Strategy of Ohariu | Frankly Speaking...: posted on 22 February 2017 at 8:02 am

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