Greenwald on the GCSB

Written By: - Date published: 12:06 pm, September 13th, 2014 - 152 comments
Categories: john key, national - Tags: , ,

Key resignation

Glenn Greenwald is in the country and has created a splash by alleging on TV3 that the GCSB is heavily involved in spying on our neighbours as well as engaging in mass surveillance of ordinary New Zealanders.  Greenwald is the reporter who was trusted with the Edward Snowden data, taken from the NSA in America.  No specifics have been released yet.  No doubt some details will be released during Monday night’s Kim Dotcom meeting.

The Herald reported last year …

Prime Minister John Key says he and the head of GCSB would resign if the spy agency were found to have conducted mass surveillance.

He made the comment to reporters at Parliament in the light of assurances that the changes to the GCSB Act 2003 would not mean mass surveillance of New Zealanders.

Asked if he and GCSB chief Ian Fletcher would resign if there were mass surveillance, he said yes.

“But the facts of life are it won’t happen.”

It will be interesting to compare this statement with the Greenwald revelations.

Stuff has reported on the interview.

“The government made a variety of statements in connection with the new spying law that it wanted and was enacted last year to try and assuage the fears of New Zealanders about what the government was doing, including  things like we don’t engage in mass surveillance and we don’t target New Zealanders indiscriminately unless they’re involved in terrorism or cyber crimes and the like.

“And one of the things we wanted to do was investigate the truth of those statements and do the reporting that would let the New Zealand citizens know whether or not their government deceived them about what their spy agencies are doing and I can tell you – although I can’t tell you what the reporting is yet – I can tell you there are serious questions about whether the current government was at all truthful with its citizens in connection with that bill.”

Greenwald commented on the use of metadata by the Government.

Greenwald said he knew for certain that the New Zealand government engaged in “extraordinary amounts of analysis of metadata”. ” Meaning whose talking to who, for how long, where they are when they speak, on a massive indiscriminate scale not just internationally but of New Zealanders as well.”

New Zealand spent an “extraordinary amount of resource” for a country its size on electronic surveillance and “every single thing that the NSA does…involves NZ directly. They are full fledged allies of this effort.”

Of further concern is the potential effect the revelations may have on relationship with foreign nations.

“New Zealand spies on a variety of countries on behalf of the US.  That’s the reporting we are still working on,….but I can tell you for certain….the NSA is incapable of accessing certain countries because of hostile relations they have with those countries and they use a variety of allies including New Zealand to spy on those countries for them.”

Asked if that might include China, Greenwald responded: “The GCSB spies on both hostile countries and allies for the US and the United Kingdom as well. Countries that probably New Zealanders would expect…..and [others] New Zealanders would say ‘why are we spying on countries like this in a western democracy’?’.

The TV3 video is not up yet but I will add it when it appears.  Meanwhile Twitter is having a lot of fun.


152 comments on “Greenwald on the GCSB”

  1. karol 1

    I wonder how much Team Key knew or guessed that Greenwald may be dumping something explosive on Monday?

    The reason Key will only debate for a half hour against Cunliffe?

    • Anne 1.1

      And the reason for the black ops campaign… to so discredit the opposition parties and Cunliffe in particular that the sheeple will go into denial even if it’s revealed John Key is a secret NSA/CIA agent sent back to NZ to lay the ground work for a complete US takeover of the country. Oops… its already happening – TPPA.

      • cogito 1.1.1

        As per the well known quote: ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’.

        Describes the majority of Kiwis unfortunately…

      • Rosie 1.1.2

        Lol Anne, I was joking yesterday about NZ becoming another state of the USA perhaps being the thing that Key is referring to when he comes out with that most curious statement “We are on the cusp of something very special”

        • Rich

          That would imply citizenship. I don’t think Key would think that suitably ‘cusp of something special’ for most of us. No, I would be thinking plantation rather than senate or congress.

          • Rosie

            Hence the joking Rich.

            Jokes aside, Key has repeated this phrase twice (at least to my ears). When you consider the Nat govts eagerness in regard to TPPA, the passing of the GCSB and TICS Act’s last year and the selling of our employment legislation to Hollywood, “being on the cups of something special” sounds incredibly ominous.

            I would be sincerely interested in what Key means by this statement.

    • the shitstorm should be at tornado-level by wed..

      ..if everything goes as hoped..

    • Rosie 1.3

      “I wonder how much Team Key knew or guessed that Greenwald may be dumping something explosive on Monday?”

      Exactly, one can’t but help wonder.

      I had initially thought that three debates was adequate and wasn’t going to watch the last one, but everything could change by then and the discussion may deviate drastically from it’s original intended path.

      Maybe Key will even pull out all together if Monday night’s evidence/information is damning enough? Really hoping the info is absolutely rock solid, and there is no way he can squirm his way out of it in his usual flippant manner.

      What a strange time our small young country finds itself in.

      • Zorr 1.3.1

        If Glenn Greenwald is involved, it’s his credibility on the line. He is the consummate journalist and I seriously doubt he would risk his professional career over something that wasn’t completely rock solid.

    • bearded git 1.4

      Cunliffe should publicly offer to debate the GCSB issue for the extra half hour

      • ExStatic 1.4.1

        Cunliffe has a big problem. This was going on well before this National government. Previous Labour governments have done exactly the same and Cunliffe has been a minister.
        Only the Greens can be relied on to cut this spying out.

        • Tracey

          clark was mi ister in charge of sis and gcsb and by all accounts, unlike key she didnt delegate.

          Cunliffe can only be pm with the greens. He cant just keep the status quo and this is one thing i dont believe the greens will compromise

        • phillip ure

          @ exstatic..

          ..i agree that this didn’t start with key..

          ..labour have their justified degreee of fear over what greenwald might reveal..

          ..the greens and internet/mana are the only ‘clean’ parties..

          ..the only ones who can be relied upon to reform..

  2. dv 3

    I means my office?

  3. cogito 4

    Anyone know if the Dotcom “Moment of Truth” on Monday is going to be livestreamed?

    Also, on same topic, the Radio Live interview with Robert Amsterdam is worth listening to

  4. Tom Gould 5

    Even if some chook somewhere has Key on tape saying directly and unambiguously, and in context, and with witnesses with signed affidavits, that he will resign, the Tory machine will already be primed and ready to dissemble and obfuscate and character assassinate, full noise. The spied-upon public don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell.

    • yeshe 5.1

      Let’s recall the obsequious ‘they’ said that about the nuclear ships coming in as well, until they didn’t.

      If Kiwis discover and see it proven that Key has been underarm bowling to them this whole time, NZ will rise and turn on anyone associated with it, with no mitigating factors. It’s what we do.

      We have seen it before, and I pray to see it again.

      • Tracey 5.1.1

        dont be so sure, many kiwis believe this idea of nothing to hide nothing to fear so look at my emails…

        • yeshe

          I agree many believe that .. but a majority didn’t and protested before the new law passed. I think if the deception is proven ? Very different story then.

          Have we become trained to absolute apathy ? Ugh.

          My vain hopes again coming through … let’s see what this way comes in the next couple of days …

          We might get to see some major squirm and deny !!

      • Mike 5.1.2

        “NZ will rise and turn on anyone associated with it, with no mitigating factors” Wishful thinking I’m afraid. Kiwis just don’t do what you say they do. If they did we would have already seen this after the Slater affair.

        The NZ and the western public in general are almost completely brainwashed by the phony war on terror, and the loss of privacy associated with the eternal vigilance needed to protect our freedoms and democracy, blah, blah, blah. Hope you’re right though!

        • yeshe

          Mike — look on the ‘Slater affair’ as the kindling and fire starter giving hot glowing embers to what is being stoked here. There is an unease ready to explode imho.

          The nuclear free issue was the same … no way ever it was going to happen for the whole country, just impossible to imagine … until the Rainbow Warrior was bombed in Auckland, and the country united in a heartbeat that has never trembled. ( Brash tried and was eggy all over the face by lunchtime !)

          I really hope you’re wrong and I am right on this one !! Cheers 🙂

  5. for those interested..i have been a greenwald fanboy for a very long time.. my greenwald archive is extensive..and stretches back for quite a few yrs..

    greenwald was one of the first to sound the alarm about the upcoming great financial crash..

    ..and he and roubini..and a couple of others..are how/why whoar was not far behind them in issuing those warnings..

    ..(i have six plus pages of greenwald links..

    ..and my first link to greenwald was in feb 2007..)

  6. Rolf 7

    That New Zealand is operating as a spying agency for the US spying on China and Chinese business is well known in China, as well as that New Zealand is covering up past bloopers and misdemeanors in China. Even WINZ send out forms for Chinese pensioners who moved back to China and receiving Super in China requiring them to spy on relatives and report income and assets and relationships. This is creating an increasing animosity towards New Zealand and its export, similar to the historical hatred towards Japan, and it is anchored on grassroots level. Don’t buy products from these US lackeys and Quislings. It I poison.

    [lprent: That is an assertion without any backing. You are placed on auto-moderation until you either provide a link to some credible backing or I put you on a permanent ban after a few days.

    I see that you have made similar unbacked assertions before about other topics. Perhaps you should read the policy. ]

    • weka 7.1

      “Even WINZ send out forms for Chinese pensioners who moved back to China and receiving Super in China requiring them to spy on relatives and report income and assets and relationships.”

      Fairly serious accusation that needs some kind of back up.

    • ianmac 8.1

      Thanks OOB. Watched all 3 interviews. Greenwald credible. Cunliffe credible not on Greewald. Key not on Greenwald but very shifty and drifted all over the place.
      Be very interesting Monday night.
      But the National lot with the help of GCSB and interested parties in FBI will have a plan to combat Greenwald. They will have some nasty stuff lined up to discredit him. The Dirty Tricks Brigade have too much to loose.

  7. Valleyman 9

    Key will claim its all lies & a left wing conspiracy also claiming the left are trying to smear the govt. I wonder how his mate Obama will take to being called a liar by key.

  8. Paul 10

    … easy for Key …. what do you mean by mass survellience? … childs play for him to wiggle out of this

    …. the real concern (although not Keys concern) is the undermining of privacy and therefor democracy

    • yeshe 10.1

      It wasn’t me; ekshully, it was my office at the end of the day ….

      Seriously, I think he has used up his ‘wiggle’ room with NZ .. let’s see.

  9. Bill 11

    From ‘the Herald’ on 3rd Dec 2013 –

    Prime Minister John Key yesterday sought another assurance from GCSB director Ian Fletcher that the spy agency had not been involved in wholesale collection of metadata on New Zealanders – and was given it.

    As Greewald has pointed out in his interview on ‘The Nation’ this morning, the crucial word in the above is ‘wholesale’ as that would mean collecting absolutely everything. So, the GCSB and Key can honestly say there has been no wholesale collection of metadata.

    However, on the question of mass collection or widespread collection or indiscriminate collection….

    • Tracey 11.1

      So the minister responsible for nothing cos he delegated it all, might just throw fletcher under the bus…

      I mean a spy boss who lies.. Whodathinkit

    • weka 11.2

      I wouldn’t take wholesale to mean absolutely everything. My dictionary says things like extensive, widespread, mass.

      But yeah, expect Key to pull out his own dictionary.

    • Molly 11.3

      He’s also left himself another “out” with:

      “Prime Minister John Key yesterday sought another assurance from GCSB director Ian Fletcher that the spy agency had not been involved in wholesale collection of metadata on New Zealanders – and was given it.”

      The GCSB does not have to get involved with the collection of data, if the other members of the Five Eyes Network is doing it for them.

  10. cogito 12

    Key has described Greenwald as “[Kim] Dotcom’s little henchman”.

    Key is slowly but surely digging his own grave.

    • Sable 12.1

      Almost a little like one of those tedious IQ tests:

      “Greenwald” is to “Dotcom” what “Keys” is to:

      (1) A monkey
      (2) A turnip
      (3) Obama
      (4) Nixon

    • BLiP 12.2

      Dotcom’s little henchman

      I’ve mentioned it before and I will be mentioning it again . . .

      Tory Ideology 101: When confronted with undeniable facts and/or irrefutable logic, apply ad homs

      . . . unfortunately, the fallacy is seldom exposed by the MSM. Still, it is a good indication that John Key has nothing else to fall back on. Usually, he just lies and smiles, leavng the injection of filth into the narrative to the likes of Cameron Slater and David Farrar.

    • Tracey 12.3

      wouldnt it be cool if a reporter asked by way of follow up

      ” henchman as in slater does your dirty work..or something else?”

    • weka 12.4

      “Key is slowly but surely digging his own grave.”

      Who thinks Key already has his bags packed?

  11. BLiP 13

    . . . I can tell you there are serious questions about whether the current government was at all truthful with its citizens in connection with that bill . . .

    Huh? There can be no question about whether National Ltd™ was lying to us in connection with the GCSB bill, and related matters. The serious questions should be about how extensive that lying was and why John Key gets away with it. Here’s a sampling of his lies on the topic to date . . .

    Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job

    I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher

    I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position

    I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher

    I haven’t seen Ian Fletcher in a long time.

    I did not mislead the House (13)

    I have no reason to doubt at this stage that Peter Dunne did not leak the GCSB report

    I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher’s number

    the new legislation narrows the scope of the GCSB

    the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions

    because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law ammendments, parliamentary urgency is required

    the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can’t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect prive enterprise

    it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police

    National Ltd™ is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law

    cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers

    the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear

    it totally incorrect that the Government effectively through GCSB will be able to wholesale spy on New Zealanders

    we self identified that there was a problem with the GCSB spying on Kim Dotcom

    the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident

    The advice I have had in 4 years as a Minister is that in no way ever has there been an indication of unlawful spying

    the Ministerial Warrant signed by Bill English did not cover anything up

    I wasn’t briefed about the raid on Kim Dotcom’s home.

    first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012

    first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in 17 September

    I did not mislead the House (14)

    I won’t be discussing Kim Dotcom during my Hollywood visit.

    The Human Rights Commission couldn’t get its submission on the GCSB legislation in on time.

    it would cost too much to for the police and SIS to carry out the spying on New Zealanders that this new legislation will permit

    critics of the GCSB legislation, including the Law Society, the Human Rights Commission, and the Privacy Commission, are all uninformed

    no, I did not mislead the House (15)

    I do not know how Mr Henry is conducting the Enquiry

    no, I did not mislead the House (16)

    the Henry Enquiry had permission to view Ministers’ emails

    no, I did not mislead the House (??)

    we do not spy on journalists

    the passing of phone records to the Henry Enquiry was an error on the part of a contractor

    I wasn’t aware that my own Chief of Staff was instructing Parliamentary Services to hand over information concerning journalist Andrea Vance

    National Ltd™ has never tried to impinge on the role of the media

    I had nothing to do with information on a journalist being handed over to the inquiry into the leaking of the GCSB report

    the terms of the enquiry made it clear to everyone that it was only the phone records of parliamentary staff and ministers that were to be provided

    I have the utmost respect for the media and the role it plays in New Zealand’s democracy

    the Henry Enquiry did not access a journalist’s building-access records

    the Henry Enquiry did not ask for phone and email records

    no, I did not mislead the House (17)

    the Greens are opposed to the GCSB and the SIS even existing

    the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because there are al-Qaeda terrorists in New Zealand

    the GCSB is not sharing meta-data with the NSA

  12. Sable 14

    Oh well no surprise really. I’m sure Labour will be quick to put a stop to it if elected…..LOL

    • Tracey 14.1

      if the only way labour can govern is with help from the greens, they will have to change it… LOL

  13. b waghorn 15

    Considering a large portion of our countries income comes from Asia , if the gcsb / key are spying on them it’s a hell of a gamble just to please the yanks

    • they did say that monday nites’ reveal will create international headlines…

      ..and i wd guess they wd be detailed/proven revelations of our spooks/govt. spying on our friends/allies/trading-partners.. lackeys/spear-carriers of the americans..

      ..this story has more legs than a centipede..

    • Tracey 15.2

      who knows, we might be doing some spying for China…


  14. Tracey 16

    Are these guys giving advance previews to ensure that it begins seeping into the consciousness of the electorate before 20th?

    • ianmac 16.1

      Perhaps someone should slip a secret message to Whaleoil saying that at high noon Greenwald has ridden into town and is armed! He will post on it. That way MSM will be sure to explode into a frenzy.

  15. Ok we have a convicted hacker and criminal ( dotcom) , 2 hired well paid left wing mercenaries (greenwood and asterdam) and some guy hiding out in an Ecuadorean embassy on rape charges all trying to influence the nz election so the criminal hacker and thief does not get extradited. Make a good plot for a comedy

    • ianmac 17.1

      Not to mention a reddelusion dwelling in a dark world of doubt, pessimism, cynicism and an all abiding love of the Prince John of Darkness. “But Prince John is the Father of God and he can do no wrong,” wails reddelusion.

    • Tracey 17.2

      which makes you wonder why farrar and hooton are bothering to keep spreading lies, what with no one caring…

      Why hooton supplied hagers street name to someone suggesting some people who wanted to harm hager needed to know where he lived

      Why people so concerned about criminal behaviour will vote for a party that has 17% of its MPs convicted for fraud or deception

      I am pleased to read someone on the right cares so much about victims of sexual assault. I did a basic search and found no posts from you expressing outrage at roastbusters…

    • Paul 17.3

      Greenwald won the Pulitzer Prize.
      He is a renowned international journalist.

      Your source, Cameron Slater, can make no such claims.

      • Tracey 17.3.1

        so thats internationally recognised hager and greenwald as journalists versus slater, farrar and hooton, all paid to spread their particularly warped version of “information”.

    • BLiP 17.4

      More like a tragedy that those heroes should be so vilified by governments and those who benefit from silencing dissent so ably assisted by others such as yourself too craven or lazy to be actively concerned.

      I note that you are reduced to applying ad homs in response to the information being revealed. Such a tactic is an automatic FAIL in debate but I am more worried about what it indicates in terms of your cognitive functioning. Shooting the messenger is a thought-stopping practise which holds you back from discerning the implications the message carries. Perhaps the implications of Mr Greenwald’s message is too frightening for you to contemplate but shutting them out from your consideration and encouraging other to also dismiss them doesn’t make those implications go away. Just sayin’.

      Anyhow, get some help.

    • Little Boy Bleu 17.5

      Redd, I’ll see your ‘convicted hacker and criminal, 2 hired well-paid left-wing mercenaries and some guy hiding out in an Ecuadorean embassy’ and raise it with a no-morals, lying, heartless money trader, a deceitful, shameless sacked minister, a devious, corrupt Govt and a degenerate, money-loving National Party which wouldn’t know compassion if it tripped over it.

  16. No great fan of slater tend to agree with herald writer today he over inflates his importance and influence. Pulitzer Prize or not greenwald is not coming here as an impartial journo, nor can you claim Hagar an impartial journalist. The rest of my post above is just stating fact, You got to admit the whole thing is a bit farcical and thats how most of nz see it, barring the exclusive enlightened hard left prancing about in morale indignation Can you imagine the morale outrage if the right tried to pull a stunt like this

    • Inky 18.1

      If you want to talk about impartial journalists, Reddulsion, how about a comment on the biased BS poured all over Cunliffe since he became Labour leader?

      Do you ever read the Herald political commentators? Are you aware they have had a great deal to do with Slater? Did you not see John Armstrong’s call for Cunliffe to resign over a nothing letter written 11 years earlier?

      Have you seen any commentator call on Key to resign over his many, far more serious and real brain fades?

      You’ve not detected the concerted mainstream media campaign that has pushed the Nats all the way in this election?

      Have you not heard Key’s mate Hosking literally describe Cunliffe as an idiot (this supposed serious political commentator)?

      And have you not seen how after that insult, and other venom directed his way by Hosking, how Cunliffe was forced to accept him as the bloke running the debates?

      Yet you have the nerve to describe GREENWALD as impartial? Spare me!
      I bloody well give up. Your type either never get it or never care.

  17. Come on blip if every one just agreed with each other it would be a pretty boring site I only give advise not insults when responses to.arguements are just tired old cliches or lack any real thought

    • BLiP 19.1

      Come on blip if every one just agreed with each other it would be a pretty boring site I only give advise not insults when responses to.arguements are just tired old cliches or lack any real thought

      Now I am even more concerned. Your comment is insensible, displays that you do not understand the difference between the ad hom fallacy and insults, accuses others of that which it is you do yourself while also, once again, shows you are unable to deal rationally about the subject under discussion.

      I kind of sympathise with you in that what Mr Greenwald is revealing is frightening for those who’s belief system is threatened by it. Fear is a powerful emotion and has been deliberately generated by those who seek to justify the clamping down on our civil liberties. Terrorism is the new spectre used now in place of such previous bogeymen as communists but it is the “big lie” because those who ostensibly are in place to protect us are the ones carrying out the terrorism. And its terrorism on a massive scale, far more subtle than bombs and beheadings. It is psychological terrorism designed to undermine cognitive faculties and replace them with thought-stopping slogans and emotional reactions.

      From a graveyard humour point of view, its kinda ironic that this terrorism is being orchestrated by the Right Wing and the ones most likely to suffer from it first are those wth a Right Wing tendency. The lols don’t stop there. The average person with a Right Wing tendency spouts all manner of platitudes about how the government should not interfere with the lives of its citizens and how, just like the Easter Bunny delivers chocolate eggs, the “invisible hand” of the market will deliver all a society requires. Yet, it is, by a huge margin, those people with Right Wing tendencies who support the government’s ability to monitor and record every keystroke and every phone call each citizen makes. How much more intrusive can a government be?

      To use your term, its “arguements” like these which are under discussion and they require real thought yet it is you who is throwing out clichés. That you don’t realise it or cannot face it is really, really sad because we are going to need everyone, including yourself, if we are to resolve the issue and bring government back into line. My idea of a perfect resolution with differ from yours but, together, we can come up with a satisfactory solution if we work together. Idealistic, I know, and beyond your abilities to understand, unfortunately, but never mind. I don’t blame you personally for having been terrorised into a blithering fight/flight state of mind but you might want to consider not interfering in our discussions.


      • Colonial Viper 19.1.1

        Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

        • greywarbler

          Reddelusion 19
          We don’t, most of us, take part on this site because we want to take part in a lively argument. That’s just fiddling while Rome is burning. And it’s risible, indefensible, and deadly self-indulgence which is beyond contempt.

  18. cogito 20

    “Mr Greenwald’s hit back on Twitter, questioning if Mr Key thinks “bizarre ad hominem attacks” will make the facts, or the documents he has, disappear”

    High noon…! LIAR KEY IS GOING DOWN.

    • Paul 20.1

      Key is going to struggle to deal with Greenwald if all he’s got are his larrikin jokey approach to issues of civil liberties in this country.

    • emergency mike 20.2

      “Dotcom’s little henchman”?

      haha how pathetic is that? What else John? Does he has a trenchcoat and scar? Bottle of poison in his pocket? How stupid does he think New Zealanders are to be swayed by crap like that about a Pulitzer prize winning journalist?

      Ok don’t answer that.

  19. Paul 21

    John Key in the Guardian.

    “Key has also been accused by US journalist Glenn Greenwald of not being truthful with voters about the government’s surveillance of its citizens. Greenwald previously worked for the Guardian and was instrumental in the publication of the Edward Snowden National Security Agency leaks.

    Greenwald is in New Zealand for an event organised by Internet party founder Kim Dotcom on Monday which is billed as an exposé of the extent of NZ’s role in the “Five Eyes” intelligence pact with Australia, the US, Britain and Canada.”

  20. risildowgtn 22

    Patrick Gower ‏@patrickgowernz 1m

    I have major new developments to do with @ggreenwald, mass spying and John Key – @3NewsNz 6pm. #decision14

    • Paul 22.1

      Sure this isn’t Gower self promoting?

    • weka 22.2

      The last time Gower tweeted major developments it was a half a percent rise in some poll or other for some party 🙄

      • karol 22.2.1

        This time he’d had a long phone chat with Key, and Key is standing firm, and says he’ll release documents to show GCSB doesn’t do mass surveillance of Kiwis – Gower is now Key’s little messenger.

        This tweet from Chris Trotter:

        Key’s release will serve to blunt and/or divert media scrutiny in final week of campaign. That’s all it has to do. Judgement will be tribal.

        • emergency mike

          Did you notice in the 3News piece how strongly Gower stressed how ‘crucial’ it was that people grasp that Key was going to produce a piece of paper that would prove Greenwald wrong?

        • Tom Jackson

          It depends.

          Key’s problem is that he said all sorts of stuff before June 2013 in response to criticisms of the GCSB over illegal surveillance and Dotcom. Of course neither he nor anybody else could have guessed what Edward Snowden was about to do, so Key no doubt felt free to lie his ass off because he reasoned that secrets would remain secret. The Kitteridge report was also leaked to the media well in advance of Snowden’s revelations.

          If there are Snowden documents showing that the Kitteridge Report and Key’s statements were nothing more than a veil of bullshit, then he’s going to have a tough time of it.

          Remember that one of Greenwald’s favourite tricks is to leak information to extract denials while withholding further information that is then used to show that the denials were dishonest.

        • Zolan

          The burden of proof is on Greenwald.
          Key has verbally refuted a specific premise.

          If Greenwald’s case depends on that premise, but doesn’t prove it, then the omission will be glaring to everyone, having been flagged in advance. And any deficiency in Key’s documentation will be cold gruel for critics.

          If Key’s defence is a strawman with no logical relevance to Greenwald’s case, then indeed “judgement will be tribal,” unless the case is impossible to deny or minimise.

          Key’s strategy deflates/diverts most scenarios, and can only backfire if Greenwald proves the refutation false, which of course is not a risk Key would have taken.

  21. karol 23

    So, can we now call Gower, “Key’s little messenger”?

    He says he talked to Key at length on the phone today.

    • Paul 23.1

      What about interviewing him Mr Gower?
      Asking hard questions.
      Holding power to account.
      That’s what journalists do.

      Courtiers on the other hand….

      • emergency mike 23.1.1

        What’s the bet that Key produces a piece of paper that states that NZ spy agencies are not to spy on NZers. He will waive it around and call it proof that Greenwald is wrong. While ignoring the question of whether other five eyes partners spied on NZers, and NZ’s spy agencies, as five eyes members, just happen to have access to that data…

        • Tom Jackson

          When has Greenwald been wrong about this stuff?

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          There’s a graphic somewhere in the Snowden docs that illustrates the hardware topography.

          The diagram implies that all the surveilled material goes to the NSA prior to being distributed to the partner agencies.

  22. Paul 24

    We shouldn’t be worrying about Nanny State in NZ.
    It’s Big Brother who’s watching you.

    Kind of ironic our right wing friends got so twisted about lightbulb controls and school tuck shop food, yet are happy to accept a surveillance state.

    Can any of our right wing visitors on this site not see the glaring contradiction in their stances.

  23. Potato 25

    Dear Mr Key,
    Don’t bother resigning. Next Saturday, we’ll sack you instead !!

  24. Paul 26

    TVNZ repeats Key’s description of Greenwald as “Dotcom’s little henchman”.
    Not the breaker of the Snowden story or a Pulitzer Prize winner.
    Pathetic news reporting.

  25. Richies McCLaw 27

    Key never said anything. It was his office.

  26. Richies Mcclaw 28

    Key never made any promises. It was all his office.

    • don’t you mean ‘orifice’..?

      • KJT 28.1.1

        Key is probably telling the truth about not mass spying on New Zealanders. He gets the USA to do it for him.

        • phillip ure

          somehow i don’t think keys’ ‘henchman’-sneer will be able to wash away what will be revealed on mon nite…

          ..utu-monday..i’m calling it…

          ..and that is group-‘utu’..

          ..we can all share in it…

        • ianmac

          That may be his out. We spy on USA while they spy on NZ. Then swap results. Tricky stuff!

        • Tom Jackson

          That may well be the case. Won’t fly with the public.

          • karol

            Didn’t Key once say the GCSB doesn’t get other 5 Eyes agencies to spy on Kiwis for the GCSB?

            • emergency mike

              “Didn’t Key once say the GCSB doesn’t get other 5 Eyes agencies to spy on Kiwis for the GCSB?”

              Yes but if those other agencies went ahead and spied on kiwis anyway, well, that’s not the GCSB’s doing now is it? That they, as 5 eyes members, would happen to have access to that data would just be a coincidence.

  27. Weepus beard 29

    Lisa Owen (3:36): [quoting from the PM] “In terms of wholesale collection of metadata about New Zealanders, that hasn’t taken place. I have asked the agency, the GCSB, and that is the confirmation I have had.”

    GG (3:56): What I can tell you for certain is that the Government does engage in extraordinary amounts of analysis of metadata … on a massive, indiscriminate scale, not just internationally but of New Zealanders as well.

    GG (04:33): New Zealand spends an extraordinary amount of resources for a country of this size on surveillance.

    GG (06:15): One of the most interesting parts of the revelations for me is that it is not just about spying but about democracy and the honesty with which these governments treat their citizenry.

    GG (07:05): There is also a question of democratic subversion – of controlling one’s own citizenry by knowing what it is that they are saying and doing.

    GG (8:18): [terrorism] is the pretext and not the actual reason that this spying is taking place

    GG (08:55): What I can tell you is that the statement that the GCSB made to NZers last year that we don’t engage in mass surveillance aimed at NZers is not truthful.

    Some important points from the Greenwald interview by Lisa Owen.

    This one is particularly worrying to any free, socially responsible person in this country:

    GG (07:05): There is also a question of democratic subversion – of controlling one’s own citizenry by knowing what it is that they are saying and doing.

    • Puddleglum 29.1

      Also interesting is the point at 3:56:

      GG (3:56): What I can tell you for certain is that the Government does engage in extraordinary amounts of analysis of metadata … on a massive, indiscriminate scale, not just internationally but of New Zealanders as well.

      That statement is not about the GCSB (or other government agency) collecting the metadata. Who collects it is irrelevant – what is relevant is that a New Zealand agency of government is analysing information about New Zealanders with no reason to do so.

      How the collection is done is a minor technical matter. Far more substantive is that the NZ government is making use of a massive and steady stream of data about New Zealanders.

      After all, if the GCSB collected the data but never, ever looked at it (or allowed others to look at it) then no harm would be done (apart from a waste of resources). Let’s remind ourselves that the reason for not wanting the GCSB to collect the information is the assumption that it would and could be analysed and then used.

      Greenwald is basically saying that it is being analysed. That’s what ultimately matters, irrespective of how it is collected.

      • Anne 29.1.1

        Any thoughts on which agency is doing the analysing Puddleglum?

        It could of course be another Five Eyes country that’s doing the analysis and then making it available to the GCSB to pass on to the National government. You can be rest assured that in the event of a Labour led government being elected, very little of it would be made available to them. In fact, I doubt they would want it because it cuts right across the principle that people should be allowed to live their lives without fear of interference.

        • Puddleglum

          Hi Anne,

          Greenwald refers to ‘the government’ doing the analysis which I presume means an agency of the government. Obviously I don’t know what Greenwald has access to but, from his words, it sounds like the data is made available to NZ agencies (presumably the GCSB) to analyse. (Who collects it is left unsaid by Greenwald – it could be the GCSB itself or, just as likely – or maybe more likely – some other country’s intelligence agency.)

          Just who collects it and makes it available to the NZ government agency(ies) is an open question but, as I argued, a largely irrelevant question (apart from the fact that it would be some agency outside of NZ – which itself is concerning).

          One way or the other, if Greenwald is correct, NZ agencies of government get to analyse a large amount of metadata about ordinary New Zealanders’ communications – communications that New Zealanders would have assumed was private.

          That to me is the worry. On top of that is the extra worry that any detailed analysis could then be fed back to other countries’ agencies for their purposes.

          • weka

            Or fed to other NZ govt departments. Is that likely to be happening much at this stage?

            • Puddleglum

              Who knows?

              The worry is that the genie appears to be out of the bottle.

              What happens once all this metadata – and/or its analysis – is available is anyone’s guess (or nightmare).

              That, in a nutshell, is surely the essence of the entire worry over such a huge, organised trawl of private communications. It should not be available in the first place.

              • weka

                Well yes I agree, but my concern had been that in addition to the people who will be targeted by the state now (thinking Tūhoe as an example), that in the future the mass collection, analysis and use of across the board of the data is incredibly dangerous in a state moving towards fascism. I’m just wondering if we are further down that track that I had thought. Possibly not, but Dirty Politics has me trusting the state way less than I did before. And NZ for that matter.

                “The worry is that the genie appears to be out of the bottle.”

                But can be put back in presumably. The data could be destroyed when the practice is stopped.

                • But can be put back in presumably. The data could be destroyed when the practice is stopped.

                  Yes, it can be stopped overall.

                  What I should have said is that once any particular metadata set is available and is analysed then where it goes after that is entirely open (could be anywhere and everywhere – i.e., the genie is out of the bottle).

                  I was thinking of specific instances of the data being made available rather than the continuation of the overall practice. That is, ‘the genie is out of the bottle’ in any particular case once the metadata have been made available and analysed.

          • karol

            Key has said the GCSB has not done any mass “surveillance” of Kiwis.

            Does surveillance” refer to just the collection of data, or does it also include the analysis? I would have thought the latter.

            3 News print version of tonight’s report has an error:

            The man Mr Key calls a “henchman” won a Pulitzer Prize for his work with Snowden.

            “I think it’s preposterous to suggest that I as an American citizen who lives in Brazil am driven by anything other than journalism, and in particular that I’m driven by some desire to influence the outcome of the New Zealand election,” says Mr Key.

            But Mr Key is suspicious of his motives.

            • weka

              Pretty sure that if it’s a word Key is using he gets to define it however he wants 😉

            • Puddleglum

              I agree completely – ‘surveillance’ is primarily the latter (i.e., the analysis).

              For the very simple reason that it is analysis that gives data any meaning.

              To surveil is to ‘overview’ – you can’t view (perceive) without some analysis of the raw data. (from French – ‘sur’ = over; veiller = ‘watch’; from Latin vigilare = keep watch).

              • Colonial Viper

                I agree completely – ‘surveillance’ is primarily the latter (i.e., the analysis).

                For the very simple reason that it is analysis that gives data any meaning.

                There is some sophistry in those arguments. You can’t ignore the many steps integral to the surveillance function and draw easy bright lines here and there and say “this is definitely inside the activity of surveillance, but this is definitely outside of it”. Raw info/data collection is an integral part of the surveillance function. Because of that, targets rightly see the mere collection of info/data as a real threat.

                Think of a spy satellite floating overhead. Or maybe a recon drone. If China or Russia were the targets they would not be saying – that spy satellite and that recon drone isn’t really conducting surveillance. They’re just gathering raw data.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                I doubt the chilling effect of data collection will be diminished greatly by the small print.

          • Anne

            Thank-you Puddleglum, I see what you’re saying now. Listening to Key’s weasel words on Q&A this morning adamantly denying the GCSB collect metadata sort of enhances the point.

            A neat arrangement that each of the Five Eyes countries scrolls through another counrty’s meta-data to enable “plausible deniability”, and then passes on the collected information to the sourced Five Eye country for them to analyse as they see fit.

            That phrase PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY again. We’ve been hearing it a lot lately.

      • weka 29.1.2

        Thanks Wp and Pg, very good to have those points an analysis so accessible.

    • Rich 29.2

      Yes the new version of God.

  28. BLiP 30

    Yee Gods!! Does John Key have no shame? While he is denying outright that there was mass spying on New Zealanders, his attempted shaping of the narrative is becoming apparent . Its not “mass spying” it actually “mass protection”. I guess if its “mass protection” then it must be doubleplusgood.

    • emergency mike 30.1

      Yep ‘mass protection’ is hilariously Orwellian. Like they’re not not just protecting a few people from the da turrists, they’re protecting lots of people. Wicked! I hope I’m being uh, ‘protected’.

      • Anne 30.1.1

        I’m sure you are emergency mike as is probably everyone else who posts/comments on this site. Always with our interest at heart of course. 😛

      • One Anonymous Bloke 30.1.2

        It’s nice to have a nanny to watch over us all. No, wait…

  29. Jenk 31

    Did anyone else notice John Key saying that a party with the most votes (ie National) could govern as a minority government if other parties decided to support such a type of govt. ie other parties eg NZ First would be prepared to support the Nats as a minority govt on certain matters of policy ? ? I don’t think I imagined this – TV3 News tonight ? Did anyone else notice this ? Is this a possibility – that the Nats could govern on their own (with 1 Act and 1 Dunne also) and party’s on the cross-benches agreeing to approve budgets, certain bits of legislation, etc ?

    • karol 31.1

      Yes. It was on The Nation this morning. He’s floating that as a possibility if neither block can form a government. But, under MMP, that’s highly unlikely.

      However, It shows that Key is not very confident of a victory. it also shows he doesn’t give a shit for democracy – just wants power.

      • weka 31.1.1

        Although to be fair I’ve seen it mooted for L/GP too.

        Not sure how it works? Isn’t it the dreaded instability, whereby the govt has to negotiate on each piece of legislation as they go?

    • ScottGN 31.2

      Mr Key has been musing on this for quite a while and apart from anything else it tells us that National have never been terribly confident of outright victory at this election.
      Mr Key seems to be saying that, assuming he’s the leader of the party with the most seats in the House after next Saturday he can go to the GG and ask that the new parliament be called and he can test its confidence with the delivery of a Speech from the Throne. He’s hoping, of course, that opposition parties will not wish to trigger a new election (and be punished for it) and therefore they will vote for the Throne Speech and subsequent Budget.
      This is common practice in Canada, which after all is another Westminster Parliament like ours and seems to be where he’s got the idea from.
      It isn’t common in NZ and I think he’s overestimating the opprobrium opposition parties might face if they choose to send the country back to the polls in the first instance.
      It’s also worth pointing out that it’s become the habit of Stephen Harper and the Conservatives in Canada to bundle all sorts of contentious legislation (gun control measures for example or bills about abortion, prostitution or tax) into various catch-all Omnibus Bills that require the Confidence of the House and therefore dare the Opposition to vote them down.

  30. b waghorn 32

    @ jenk
    Must mean key knows he’s fucked if he’s talking about minority government.

  31. emergency mike 33

    First Key says, “There’s no mass surveillance of New Zealanders.” Period. But later in the same interview…

    Journalist- ‘Have we received mass surveillance on NZers from our overseas five eyes partners ?

    Key- ‘I can’t go into that detail because I don’t have the answer to that’.

    So, um, our minister for the GCSB, doesn’t know whether or not they have received massive data on NZers from their 5 eyes partners? Doncha think you should know Mr Key?

    But at the same time, he can state categorically that there’s no mass surveillance of New Zealanders. Hmm, I used to think that John Key was an impressive bullshit artist, but now I’m not so impressed. Do try to get your story straight.

    • emergency mike 33.1

      I also note that the click warriors on Stuff seems to have given up on this 712 comment article. The normal situation of very high scores for the countless people calling Key a liar, and negative scores for people slagging off Greenwald has resumed.

    • Puddleglum 33.2

      I suspect that Key’s ‘wiggle room’ is around who collects the data rather than who has access to it for analysis.

      It doesn’t matter who ‘collects’ it – Key’s assurance was that mass surveillance doesn’t happen. The kernel of this concern is not about ‘collection’ – it’s about analysis and use.

      He needs to be nailed on this – any journalists reading the comments on this post?

  32. Tautoko Viper 34

    Looking back over some of the issues to do with the GCSB and Key, I would like to know the role of Peter Thiel and Palantir and if it involves analysing data collected on NZ citizens.

    The following article discusses Palantir in the US:

    Citizens of the world who were tired of how much of their personal data the U.S. government controlled may soon have to get used to a different dilemma: That same information being controlled by a private company.

    If information is being collected by the GCSB , passed to a private company for analysis, is there not a potential for information to be sold on for commercial reasons?

    • Rich 34.1

      Yes I know nothing about this Palantir, but once I realised what was going on in this country, Thiel and his libertarian fascism with a strong base in elite shittery came immediately to mind. One of their ideas is for an offshore artificial island uncontrolled by any form of democracy and a place where the poor are banned (assumedly with the exception of fly in slaves). Sounds almost like they couldn’t be bothered building their own.

    • Colonial Viper 34.2

      I saw a tweet yesterday along these lines: Peter Thiel was asked if Palantir was a front for the CIA. He replied – no, it’s the CIA which is a front for Palantir.

      Oh, how wonderfully droll, I thought. Gagh.

  33. Valleyman 35

    Key will have received his script from the US government about what to say in response to the Snowdon documents that Greenwald will release on Monday, Key will also be franticly practising his script all weekend so he has it memorised word for word.

    • Colonial Viper 35.1

      The beautiful thing: Greenwald knows exactly what that script says as Greenwald has heard it hundreds of times before.

      • emergency mike 35.1.1

        Exactly, Greenwald has heard it all before here there and everywhere.

        I don’t think ‘henchman’ is going to throw him at this stage.

  34. Inky 36

    Another beautiful thing is Key’s bitchy remark about Greenwald being Dotcom’s ‘henchman’. Because you can be sure that it’s going to be reported overseas and he will have put himself on the radar with a lot more people. Many will know Greenwald is nobody’s henchman and will be thinking, ‘hmm, that sounds pretty defensive. Who is this guy Key and what is this all about?’

    Way to go, John, if you had even the sense of a melon farmer (google it), you’d have kept your stupid yap shut.

  35. karol 37

    Sunday Star Times this morning:

    Glenn Greenwald will speak first on Monday night. Simultaneously his report on NZ and the Snowden documents will be released online on Intercept.

    Dotcom will speak last (after Snowden & Assange via video link). Dotcom’s statement will be short, “incontrovertible” evidence that Key lied about when he knew him.

    SST says Key is poised to release a transcript of the briefing Key got just before the raid on Dotcom mansion, to show that was the first he’d heard of KDC. It shows Key asked if Dotcom was Korean.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 37.1

      The [redacted] answer to his question can now be revealed:

      “No, Prime Minister, remember your briefing in Los Angeles?”

  36. veutoviper 38

    Two IP/IMP releases that are worth reading/watching.

    First, the excellent press release from Harre and Harawira in response to Key’s reaction to Greenwald’s The Nation interview – and in particular Key’s statement that he is going to declassify documents to prove Greenwald wrong. Misusing security information for political purposes ??????

    Second, Laila (Not the Six O’Clock News) in discussion with Robert Amsterdam and Glenn Greenwald on mass surveillance, Key’s reaction to date and related matters. Twenty minutes of my life that I do not regret as it was well worth watching.

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    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    6 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    7 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy
    1 week ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 week ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    1 week ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    1 week ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago

  • Ngāi Tahu CEO appointed to NZ-China Council
    Minister for Māori Development, Nanaia Mahuta, has selected Arihia Bennett MNZM, Chief Executive Officer of Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, as the Te Puni Kōkiri appointed representative on the New Zealand-China Council. The New Zealand-China Council (the Council) was established in 2012 as a New Zealand led and funded organisation ...
    3 hours ago
  • Southern Response claims move to EQC
    Responsibility for processing the small number of Southern Response claims still to be settled will be transferred to EQC by the end of the year. “As claim numbers reduce, it no longer makes sense for the Crown to have two organisations processing the remaining Canterbury claims,” Grant Robertson says. “Since ...
    5 hours ago
  • Bowel screening starts in Whanganui
    Health Minister David Clark is encouraging Whanganui residents to take up the opportunity for free bowel screening, which can detect cancer early when it’s easier to treat.   Over the next two years 12,000 Whanganui locals, aged 60 to 74 will be invited to participate in the National Bowel Screening ...
    7 hours ago
  • Pacific Peoples Minister to attend Our Ocean Conference in Norway
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio, heads to Oslo today to represent New Zealand at the sixth Our Ocean Conference, which is being hosted by the Norwegian Government from the 23-24 October. “The Our Ocean Conference mobilises real action on issues like marine plastic pollution and the impacts of ...
    1 day ago
  • Government announces 27 percent increase in Trades Academy places
    Two secondary-school initiatives are being expanded as part of the Government’s plan to see more young New Zealanders take up a trade to help close the skills gap.   This includes the largest single increase in Trades Academy places in recent years. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris ...
    1 day ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures Conference: Connection...
    Session 4: Pacific Connectivity – Youth, Media and New Opportunities   Kia ora tatou katoa and Warm Pacific greetings to one and all. Representatives of Tainui, the local people of the land, or manawhenua – the indigenous peoples of this area – have welcomed you this morning in accordance with ...
    4 days ago
  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    4 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    4 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    4 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    4 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    4 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    4 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    5 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    5 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    5 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    5 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    5 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    5 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    5 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    6 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    6 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    6 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    6 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    6 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    6 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    6 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    6 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    6 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    1 week ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    1 week ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    1 week ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    1 week ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    1 week ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    1 week ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    1 week ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    1 week ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    1 week ago