Ground troops to Iraq – PM please explain

Written By: - Date published: 2:10 pm, November 19th, 2015 - 26 comments
Categories: iraq, john key, Syria, war - Tags: , , ,

The disasters in Iraq and Syria were caused by American intervention. The refugee crisis is a direct result, as is the increased likelihood of acts of terrorism, such as has just occurred in Paris. The whole mess of ongoing bombing / military intervention and terrorism is locked into a vicious feedback loop. Nobody seems to want to get off the carousel.

Playing a bit part in this tragedy is our very own NZ. Yesterday:

PM will not rule out sending troops to Iraq

Prime Minister John Key will not categorically rule out sending ground troops to Iraq as countries consider greater commitments to combat the Islamic State after the Paris terror attacks.

Asked whether New Zealand would consider sending ground troops as part of a “grand coalition”, Mr Key said: “You’re asking me the question so you can run some piece on the news that says I might. “To be blunt, I don’t have any information, I don’t know anything about that situation, I can’t tell you what might happen in 10 years’ time.

It’s the sort of question a leader should have the answer to, don’t you think?

“But it’s not our intention to put troops on the ground. Our intention is to continue to put troops on the ground.”

Yeah I read it twice too and it still makes no sense.

Mr Key noted that countries such as Iran felt the USA’s previous interventions in Iraq had “made the situation worse”.

Bingo.

Key should have an answer to the question and the answer should be no. Otherwise, PM please explain, what the hell good would sending a few Kiwi ground troops to the ongoing disaster of the Middle East achieve? Is it the whole cost of being in the club thing again?

26 comments on “Ground troops to Iraq – PM please explain”

  1. infused 1

    The same question applies to climate change which you insist we must do something about. So your points are invalid.

    “PM please explain, what the hell cutting a few emissions is going to do in the ongoing disaster of Climate Change”

    Fixed.

    • r0b 1.1

      My dear infused, your reasoning skills leave much to be desired.

      > The same question applies to climate change

      No one is suggesting that we send ground troops to combat climate change.

      > which you insist we must do something about.

      Yes I do.

      > So your points are invalid.

      That doesn’t follow from anything.

      > “PM please explain, what the hell cutting a few emissions
      > is going to do in the ongoing disaster of Climate Change”

      (1) It will (very) slightly reduce global warming, and

      (2) Much (much) more significantly it will add to the world’s consensus that action must be taken – by everyone – allowing more pressure to be brought to bear on laggards.

      Just by the by it would also have huge benefits for NZ if we could lead the world in sustainable technologies and agriculture.

      • infused 1.1.1

        Your conclusion is exactly my point.

        Thanks.

        • You_Fool 1.1.1.1

          The difference is cutting emissions will actually help to fight climate change, sending ground troops to the middle east will not reduce the instability and the increase in extremism coming from the region and elsewhere. We know this because we have the experience of the last 15 odd years to know what happens with direct intervention in the Middle East.

          That said I now believe that we (as in the west) have to do something because the flood of refugees are our fault (almost directly, as it is our parents and grandparents and possibly great grand parents depending on your age.) We can’t repeat what we have been doing for around 100 years, as that has not made anything better, but we need to do something or a whole lot of people (actual real human beings you know) will suffer because of our cultures hubris and pride. That is something that doesn’t sit well with me.

  2. Amy 2

    Syria and Iraq mess not caused by US. Us absolutely made things worse (although unquestionably better for the Kurds and probably the shiites also), but problems there were evident when TE Lawrence wrote Seven Pillars of Wisdom in the 1920s.

    True root of many of these problems was France and later UK dismantling of Ottoman Empire and the imposition of arbitrary borders that failed to reflect ethnic, cultural and religious realities.
    Then yes, the US and Russian involvement made it much worse.

    Kiwi soldiers in Iraq would be better than present situation.

  3. Draco T Bastard 3

    Nobody seems to want to get off the carousel.

    The military Industrial Complex won’t continue making huge profits if they did:

    When the New York Stock Exchange opened Monday morning, less than three days after Islamic State terrorists attacked in Paris, five leading American weapons manufacturers saw their stock prices jump. Fox Business attributed the bump to a “reaction to the attacks in France.” Over the weekend, French President Francois Hollande had announced that his country would “lead a war which will be pitiless” against ISIS and launched a “massive” airstrike on its stronghold in Syria.

    Mr Key noted that countries such as Iran felt the USA’s previous interventions in Iraq had “made the situation worse”.

    Please note the very careful phrasing there. Iran is one of the ‘bad’ countries that the US doesn’t like and so if they’re saying that it’s made things worse then the implication is that it’s actually made things better.

    • infused 3.1

      If you’ve actually read what Iran wants to do, you might actually change your mind. What Obama has done with Iran is stupid, or genius, depending if America allows Iran to break the deal and then use force.

      • Tracey 3.1.1

        Germany has been falling over itself to get back to doing business with iran

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2

        What Iran wants to do is of no concern to the West and nor is what happens in the ME. Hell, the problem is that we’ve interfered with the ME too much already.

        • infused 3.1.2.1

          No concern to the west? Jesus you live under a rock.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.1.1

            It is not up to the West to govern the ME or Iran. If the West doesn’t like what Iran or the ME is doing then they just don’t do business with them. That’s they’re only choice.

            Of course, then the West would be fucked as they wouldn’t have access to the oil that they need but the solution to that is just not to need oil.

            • Macro 3.1.2.1.1.1

              Exactly. But Infused and his ilk can never concede this… The imperialism is too entrenched.

  4. Sabine 4

    a.It makes for a good fantasy while jerking off in the shower?
    b.He gets to feel all manly?
    c.He gets to visit Obama again, Now watch that round?
    d.He gets to shake hands again with the Saudi?
    e. Halliburton will employ him once his stint as Manager of NuZlind is over?

    I am sure it is a.

    • savenz 4.1

      @Sabine
      f – All of the above.

      Also Great Photo OP!

      Take away from TPP and Flag . As ‘left wing plant’ Pagani has tweeted

      “By the way – ISIS is worse than TPP. Not that you’d know by the silence from the protestors”

      Cheque from Hooton in the post, sweets.

    • Tracey 4.2

      And how dare the evil.doers threaten his daughter’s city

  5. joe90 5

    B and C.

    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Wednesday said he will introduce a wide-ranging authorization for war against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).
    “I’m going to introduce an authorization to use military force against ISIL that is not limited by time, geography or means,” said Graham, who is running for president. “We only have two choices regarding ISIL — fight them in their backyard or fight them in ours. I choose to fight them in their backyard.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/260602-graham-to-roll-out-wide-ranging-isis-war-bill

  6. Puckish Rogue 6

    Otherwise, PM please explain, what the hell good would sending a few Kiwi ground troops to the ongoing disaster of the Middle East achieve?

    – Depends, if its regular force going then not much though medics will always be needed but If its the SAS going in then thats a whole different story and will show that NZ means business

    • Anno1701 6.1

      “NZ means business”

      our troops (SAS or not ) would get chewed up and spat out ….

      The reality is that no other Western power will fight a war without the US, because at most current defense spending levels, most countries just don’t have the firepower to get into and win great big fights without the US. Essentially, the US provides the brawn while the rest of the world provides the approval.

      But Obama has no incentive to go into Syria, and would view as a political nonstarter anything that would result in the deployment of large US forces for major combat operations. And if the US won’t go, then France/everybody else won’t.

      The lowest ratio for a significant insurgency gets down to 2.6 soldiers AT lowest per thousand head of population , Syria had a prewar population of about 22 million.

      Now, between deaths and refugees, that number is closer to 16 million.

      If you take the most benign possible scenario (2.6 soldiers @ lowest per thousand head of population like in the “Malayan Emergency” ), France would have just enough troops to fight a nationwide counterinsurgency . This means they’d have to come up with a constant presence of 43,160 troops just to keep a lid on Syria.

      But at the ugly end of the spectrum (France needed 46.3 soldiers per thousand locals during the Algerian war for independence), that number explodes to aprox 768,580 regular (non-reservist) troops which is more than the TOTAL French & US armies combined.

    • Bastables 6.2

      I’m not really sure how sending a couple of dets of Super army soldiers/SAS really helps with the matter when the US Special forces command is larger than the Entire ANZAC military and are still stuck in an endless war.

  7. shorts 7

    “”You cant kill other people because others have died in a tragic accident.”

    Mr Key told reporters covering Apec in Manila that he did everything he possibly could.

    “The practicalities are no Prime Minister in good conscience could sign off on a situation where we put other lives at risk.””

    Key today on Pike River

    So what makes Iraq/Syria/wherever different?

    I guess the answer contains the letters, u, s and a?

  8. Neil 8

    Key said the other day that we wouldn’t be sending anymore troops to Iraq or is this just another case of Key telling lies again.

    Prime Minister John Key has said New Zealand will not be deploying more troops in Iraq as a response to the Paris attacks.

    Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/key-on-paris-attacks-these-people-know-no-boundaries-2015111515#ixzz3ruANfjHz

  9. joe90 9

    Mrs Bowers is always right.

    Mrs. Betty Bowers
    ‏@BettyBowers

    Will sane Christians & Muslims stand silent while insane, radical, Middle East Muslims goad insane, radical, American Christians into a war?

  10. reason 10

    Key and others are grandstanding jack-asses if they think boots on the ground anywhere in the middle east will stop European home-grown criminals/terrorists carrying out their revenge fantasy mass murder crimes.

    Key and others are sick cynical opportunists using whatever crisis or tragedy is at hand to advance their own positions and power.

    “Pray for the world
    that blames a refugee crisis for a terrorist attack.
    That does not pause to differentiate between the attacker
    and the person running from the very same thing you are.
    Pray for a world
    where people walking across countries for months,
    their only belongings upon their backs,
    are told they have no place to go.
    Say a prayer for Paris by all means,
    but pray more,
    for the world that does not have a prayer
    for those who no longer have a home to defend.
    For a world that is falling apart in all corners.”

    The full poem and further reading are here …. http://mic.com/articles/128551/terrorist-suicide-bombing-attack-on-beirut-lebanon-kills-43-and-injures-hundreds?utm_source=policymicFB&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social#.jKJnPGTuN

  11. Stuart Munro 11

    It’s not about doing anything good (or bad or ineffective) for Iraq, this is an opportunity for Key to crawl further up Obama’s bottom. Of course he’ll do it. Like Hosking misses no chance to crawl up Key.

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  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

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