Growing the economy

30 comments on “Growing the economy ”

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1. Afewknowthetruth 1

   10 August 2011 at 3:39 pm

   Tax cuts have nothing to do with economic growth, of course.

   Economic growth is all about greater conversion of natural resources into waste, whereas tax cuts are about the redistribution of the bounty stolen from the next generation. But it’s a nice picture.
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     10 August 2011 at 3:49 pm

     Isn’t printing billions in new money and using it to push the share indexes higher ‘economic growth’? 😛
   • Draco T Bastard 1.2

     10 August 2011 at 5:27 pm

     It’s obvious that neither of the main parties get it. Can’t see any of the minor parties understanding that either.
2. Hang on 2

   10 August 2011 at 3:58 pm

   Just a study I read a while back,

   “evidence [suggests] that most countries cause considerable damage to their economies by imposing high tax rates.”

   That would suggest that within a relevant range tax cuts are going to stimulate economic growth. The study concludes by saying that Govts that are financed by a maximum 19% of the GDP have the best chances of higher rates of economic growth. Anything above is seen as inefficient.
   • prism 2.1

     10 August 2011 at 6:31 pm

     Who wrote your study? Hang on I think we ought to know that? Some peoples’ studies are other peoples’ right wing propaganda.
     • Hang on 2.1.1

       10 August 2011 at 7:19 pm

       http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st159.pdf

       Its using evidence in the united states. And on a side note ‘prism’ .. the very large majority of media in nz (even the world) is left leaning, so if the study I did refer to is “rightwing political propoganda” which it clearly isn’t, it would only be there to balance out the field.
       • framu 2.1.1.1

         11 August 2011 at 7:48 am

         “which it clearly isn’t,”

         one of the authors is from the heritage foundation, and its hosted on a site that champions the freemarket (The USA edition)! ’nuff said. I think its pretty safe to say that its political propoganda.

         and spare the “media is all left wing” BS. If thats the case most lefties must be really out on the fringes.

         I would call the media “lazy oppourtunists”

         You know… ‘if it bleeds it leads” and all that
   • mik e 2.2

     10 August 2011 at 6:31 pm

     Hang on a minute where are such countries. Just more ACT diatribe you look at the countries with high sustained growth and the opposite is true! which tea party ACT pamphlet Chicago school lies have you been reading there is no such research unless you are referring to 1or 2 eastern block countries who are on the race to the bottom. Who are able in the short term to have cheap wages and low taxes because their govts don’t provide any services, all they are doing is under cutting older economies and they can only do this for a short time !Because another undeveloped country pulls the same trick and under cuts them ie Ireland joke of Europe now Poland who’s next
     • prism 2.2.1

       10 August 2011 at 8:45 pm

       @ mik e You could have mentioned China as a previously undeveloped country that is now finding that companies are going elsewhere where they can undercut Chinese wages, which are rising somewhat.
       • KJT 2.2.1.1

         10 August 2011 at 8:48 pm

         Foxconn threatened to leave China if they allowed more rights to workers in their factories.

         China will eventually find that trying to be the cheapest does not work for them any more than it worked for the UK.
   • KJT 2.3

     10 August 2011 at 7:55 pm

     Note which countries are doing the best.

     High correlation between higher taxes and more successful economies. The more diverse measures you use the greater the correlation.

     http://www.oecd.org/document/2/0,2340,en_2649_201185_36371174_1_1_1_1,00.html.
     OECD numbers on the size of the tax wedge.

     This is personal income taxes. Countries like Germany and Belgium have added taxes for things such as company income which is not re-invested and capital gains income.

     The race for the bottom has been a total failure for Ireland, UK, USA and NZ.

     Some countries, such as China, Korea and Singapore have lower direct taxes, but use income from State controlled enterprises and State ownership of land to fill the gap..
   • Marjorie Dawe 2.4

     10 August 2011 at 8:43 pm

     Hang on. There seems to be a pattern to right wing declarations and there seldom seems to be any evidence. Nebulous concepts dont really cut the mustard do they especially when there is an abundance of peer reviewed and reliable documentary evidence to the contrary.
   • Colonial Viper 2.5

     10 August 2011 at 10:35 pm

     Neo-classical economics has been completely corrupted by wealthy corporate interests. Its basic principles are completely wrong and misunderstood even by themselves.

     In its extreme and ongoing failure to deliver to society, they still preach that it is mathematical gospel.
     • prism 2.5.1

       11 August 2011 at 9:18 am

       @Colonial Viper – Like Communism in reverse! I heard the point made recently that the Russian attempt to bring actual communism only lasted a few months, then its style and principles were overwhelmed by other forces. Suppose they would be called authoritarian – would they be fascist actually masquerading as communist to appease the masses?
3. clandestino 3

   10 August 2011 at 4:12 pm

   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44079837#44079837

   Whoa
   • rosy 3.1

     10 August 2011 at 5:44 pm

     Fantastic. Tell them what you really think! Do you think anyone heard?
4. prism 4

   10 August 2011 at 7:38 pm

   Bryan Crump talking on Radionz to a financial commentator tonight on gold and its place in the economy. (Commodities analyst Ronald Stöferle)
   Some notes –
   Utah is thinking about bringing back silver and gold coins.
   One of the reasons for dropping the gold standard was because of WW1. It could not be financed under a gold standard regime.
   The low interest rates of the USA are distorting the economy’s usual pattern where 6% of businesses fold every year. At present it is only 1.5%.
   • Colonial Viper 4.1

     10 August 2011 at 10:32 pm

     Hmmmm.

     The Gold Window was closed by Nixon in 1971. Essentially it was a default of the USD. Up until that point you could directly exchange a pile of Federal Reserve Notes for gold.

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

     The low interest rates of the USA are distorting the economy’s usual pattern where 6% of businesses fold every year. At present it is only 1.5%.

     This is true only to an extent and it misses a very large point about the debasement of the USD. The largest banks have access to hundreds of billions of newly printed USD through the Fed Window at 0.5% pa or less.

     In this ponzi capitalism scheme, the important players (e.g. the favoured investment banks) are exposed to zero risk despite their incredibly reckless vandalism of the global economy, because they will always be bailed out by tax payers should anything go wrong.
     • Ari 4.1.1

       10 August 2011 at 11:31 pm

       The problem isn’t that money isn’t based on gold or some other physical resource- in fact, that’s probably a very good thing because if properly managed it can make money more stable.

       The problem is that the amount of effective money is controlled by lenders, ie. banks, and not by governments.
       • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

         10 August 2011 at 11:43 pm

         because if properly managed it can make money more stable.

         Perhaps, but that’s not how it has been used in the last 10 or so years. And now, the pumping of the financial economy with printed money must continue ever stronger and harder or the whole lot will fall apart…

         A gold standard would impoverish many I agree as it would dramatically cut the money supply back and make it very easy for a few large players to influence the value of the currency.

         The privately owned US Federal Reserve needs to go and the US govt needs to take back direct control of the currency.
     • prism 4.1.2

       11 August 2011 at 9:24 am

       @Colonial Viper – Thanks for some facts. I try and pick up what is going on but it takes time and I sometimes only manage to get a taste of a subject such as with the commenter on gold.
       I think you make a point that he expressed also, that without the solid presence of gold, the limitations to ‘exuberant’ transactions using paper and the internet etc are lost and the finagling opportunities increase hugely.
5. Afewknowthetruth 5

   10 August 2011 at 8:40 pm

   Hang on.

   ‘the very large majority of media in nz (even the world) is left leaning’

   That must be one of the most absurd statements I have read this year.

   All NZ newspapers and the bulk of the radio and television networks are owned and operated by corporations for the benefits of shareholders. The same applies to the vast majority of western nations. Are you really suggesting that corporations promote their own demise?

   Dunno which planet you’re living on but its not the same one as the rest of us.
6. Marjorie Dawe 6

   10 August 2011 at 9:00 pm

   I would have to agree AFKTT because I really think that our media act as apologists for our Nat government and are definitely reluctant to publish left leaning stories. It seems that every time the Nats say something really unpopular, someone like Fran or Guyon give them an easy ride and watch their backs by trying to minimise the damage.
7. The Quiet Observer 7

   10 August 2011 at 9:51 pm

   I think you all seriously need to read this… It would go a long way to explain the contextual background of the people here who so staunchly give their opinions

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
   • lprent 7.1

     10 August 2011 at 10:11 pm

     My opinion is that you’re likely to be just another idiot in love with your own arrogance based on your comment (your previous comments are better than this).

     Doesn’t explain the opinionated where they actually know what they’re talking about. Take me as a case in point. I’m heavily opinionated on earth sciences (BSc in it), management (MBA + experience), history (BA), computers (20 years as a professional programmer), politics (20 years being an labour activist), and the net (30 years playing around with it). Many of the people here are pretty much the same in terms of background and experience. They tend to be rather rough on people waffling outside of their experience. You comment looks exactly like the type that they will display ridicule to, because you haven’t pointed to a relevant context that you link makes any sense (besides tends to look like one of those observations that is completely subjective and just made for holier than thou bigot). You just blatted it out in such a way that it overs everyone from the most qualified to … well a jerkoff like yourself.

     Perhaps you should look at what you and how you comment more closely.

     BTW: Changing pseudonyms every day is just about guaranteed to attract my moderator attention.
   • ropata 7.2

     11 August 2011 at 8:04 am

     TQO; Don’t bother using facts or history will ya? If the people here write stuff that annoys you obviously they are all incompetent /Dunning Kruger effect /Confirmation bias /Cognitive friction. Problem solved.

     Suggested reading:
     Wikipedia “Social class in New Zealand”
     Austin Mitchell “The Half Gallon Quarter Acre Pavlova Paradise”
     Tim Hazledine “Taking New Zealand Seriously: The Economics of Decency.”
     “The Spirit Level”

     etc etc
   • KJT 7.3

     11 August 2011 at 9:45 am

     You are funny.

     RWNJ learns some new words. 🙂 🙂

     That is very apparent on Kiwiblog. Not here. Apart from the RWNJ trolls and asto turfers, of course

     RWNJ’s speak with a, mostly, united voice because they just regurgitate the pap they are fed.
     Try reading up on Authoritarian followers.

     The left are, mostly, more thoughtful and have a range of ideas because we think, read, research and consider alternatives.
8. Tangled up in blue 8

   11 August 2011 at 9:31 am

   Just think how bad of a state the economy would be in now if we didn’t have tax cuts to weather the storm . . .

   pause

   not.
   • mik e 8.1

     15 August 2011 at 3:25 pm

     Tuipoo berlusconi has raised taxes on the rich by 10% shres and interest by 7.5%
9. mik e 9

   11 August 2011 at 11:34 pm

   tuipoo who’s we 5% that got cuts or the rest of US who pay more. Its so nice to see the rich coming down to our level Just to rub our noses in it thats a caring society for you

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