Gwyn Report to confirm dirty politics

Written By: - Date published: 6:32 pm, November 24th, 2014 - 201 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, john key, national - Tags: , ,

Looks like the Gwyn report, due tomorrow, will confirm the Key government’s abuse of power / dirty politics. From The Herald.

PM’s office pushed Slater to dig up dirt on Goff – report

A report by New Zealand’s intelligence watchdog Cheryl Gwyn has found attack blogger Cameron Slater requested and published politically damaging material about former Labour Leader Phil Goff from the SIS after being instructed to ask for the material by Prime Minister John Key’s staff.

What did Key know and when did he know it?

The Herald understands that after being briefed on the material by Dr Tucker, Mr Key’s then deputy chief of staff Phil de Joux suggested to Jason Ede, another staffer in Mr Key’s office, that he contact Slater suggesting he request information about the Goff briefing.

It is understood the report recommends the SIS apologise to Mr Goff.

From RNZ:

The report apparently showed that Mr Slater was on the phone to Mr Ede as he filed the OIA request.

Links don’t get much closer than that.

Those findings appear to confirm much of what was in Dirty Politics.

The book said Mr Ede was used to pass on information to Mr Slater, who then used it to mount attacks against the Government’s political foes.

The report will be released at 10am tomorrow and Mr Goff was to receive an apology from the new director of the SIS, Rebecca Kitteridge.

It will come on the day that the Government introduces the Countering Terrorist Fighters Legislation Bill, which will give the SIS much greater powers than it has at the moment.

Key is pushing to expand the powers of the agency that has been used to mount attacks on his political opponents. What could possibly be wrong with that?

dirty11

201 comments on “Gwyn Report to confirm dirty politics”

  1. McFlock 1

    There’s no evidence, the tories said, we’re just paranoid, the tories said…

    Bets on whether Little gets his passport revoked if he tries to see what our chaps end up doing in the Middle East?

    • AmaKiwi 1.1

      This is the smoking gun and Key pulled the trigger.

      • McFlock 1.1.1

        maybe so, but (like banks) key will only go when charges are just around the corner.
        He’s got a nice hidey-hole in hawaii when that time comes.

    • Tracey 1.2

      When will the police be investigating who leaked the report or its findings early?

    • Bob 1.3

      The report is out, nothing has changed “no indication of collusion with the PM’s office” now back to your paranoia

      • framu 1.3.1

        except for the bit where they talked to keys office (who im pretty sure arent meant to have access to such info) and failed to uphold political neutrality just before two elections of course

        shit bob – just how do YOU reconcile a failure to uphold political neutrality with a claim of non partisanship?

        does 2 + 2 = bollocks in your world?

  2. Paul 2

    Let’s hope the story doesn’t get minimised by the corporate media again.
    Mr Little, time to show your mettle.
    No quarter must be given.

  3. Anne 3

    Bloody disgraceful!!
    Is this got something to do with Key’s apology to Slater? Does Slater have something over Key?

    I thought he looked like he’d been on the turps all night at his weekly TV stand up today – slurring his words even more than usual.

    • Paul 3.1

      Yes I reckon Slater has stuff on many politicians and also members of the media.
      A lot of people are scared of him as he could break their careers.

    • whateva next? 3.2

      The model we have as Prime Minister is not programmed to apologise, so it comes out slurred

    • Tracey 3.3

      My partner thought he was slurring the other day and send he sounded like he had been drinking. She is not a political animal.

  4. dave 4

    apoligies we want keys [r0b: no violence even in jest please] the bastard is corrupt his government is corrupt

  5. just saying 6

    We really need the oppostion to catch this ball and run with it.
    They need to be crystal-clear: that this is serious, why this is serious and that action must be taken to stop such abuses in future. And also, that more investiagtion must be undertaken into other information contained in the book, and the bigger picture that has been uncovered.

    People need to understand what this kind of abuse of power means.

    • Ad 6.1

      Much more effective if TV1 and 3 and Radiolive do it.

      National put the blood in the water; let the sharks come.

      Finally, popcorn for the left.

      • just saying 6.1.1

        The picture needs to be painted by the left.
        No more popcorn.
        Enough letting everyone else frame the narrative and then pitching-in with some patetic little comment that effectively validates that framing.

        • Tautoko Mangō Mata 6.1.1.1

          I agree, Just Saying. Lead the narrative, Labour. Phil Goff told the true story.
          It is interesting reading the earlier accounts.
          “Mr Key suggested yesterday that Mr Goff had simply forgotten the briefing. “Phil Goff is a busy man; I’m busy. People forget things. It happens.”

          But Mr Goff insists he would have remembered if Dr Tucker had raised it. He said Dr Tucker rang him last week to tell him he was releasing the document to Slater.

          “I said, ‘What – I haven’t even seen the bloody document.”

          He said Dr Tucker told him he had a legal obligation to release it. Mr Goff asked to receive it in advance but thinks he got it at the same time as Slater.

          A spokesman for Mr Key said last night that he had not contacted Slater about the matter.

          “At no stage did the Prime Minister’s Office direct how the SIS should treat the OIA request.”
          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10743290

          • politikiwi 6.1.1.1.1

            “At no stage did the Prime Minister’s Office direct how the SIS should treat the OIA request.”

            Weasel words if ever I heard them. How much wiggle room is there in that?

            :: “The Prime Minister’s office” might not have, but the Prime Minister and his office are clearly two separate entities whenever it suits the Government. (Be very clear when you next invite John Key over for dinner – you might have 15 people turn up.)

            :: “Direct” meaning “order” I presume? There is scope for some sort of “free and frank advice not amounting to an order/direction” then?

            :: “How” and “when” are different, so the PM’s office could still direct the SIS to release the memo “immediately.”

            etc etc etc…. *sigh*

        • marty mars 6.1.1.2

          +1 Yep – this is an example of filth pure and simple and the hard work has been done – the left (or labour) have to show the general public, step by step, soundbite by soundbite, how utterly unacceptable this is.

        • Tracey 6.1.1.3

          Nats have had days to plan their framing… It will blow over…again…

          Presumably nats leaked it so farrar can do some polling last night so they can frame their response at 1030am today?

          • karol 6.1.1.3.1

            RNZ online report:

            However, Cheryl Gwyn has found that Dr Tucker did not release all the relevant information. There is apparently a note signed by Mr Goff and Dr Tucker which confirms there was no briefing on the Israeli spies.

            Also, this:

            Radio New Zealand has been told the report shows that Dr Tucker regularly briefed Mr Key’s then-deputy chief of staff Phil de Joux.

            When the political squabble about the Israeli spies became public, Mr de Joux told another staffer, Jason Ede, that the office needed to get Dr Tucker’s briefing note released under the Official Information Act.

            The report was expected to show that Mr Slater was on the phone to Mr Ede as he filed his OIA request.

      • In Vino 6.1.2

        Are you joking? Do I need a sarcasm alert more than I thought I did?

    • Red Rosa 6.2

      Well said. This needs to be laid out, chapter and verse.

      Real corruption, and right from the top.

  6. Hopefully many New Zealanders will see what is more than a little off here. Mr Key is pushing to expand the domestic powers (48 hour sneak & peek) of the very agency (NZSIS) that he or rather “his office” no doubt, used to gain political advantage over a rival party.

    Heres to many more enquiries until dear leader is nailed. Hagar’s only mistake imo was the title of the book. “John Key’s office and Whalespew Slater’s Dirty Filthy Politics” would have focused people beyond any doubt on what was inside.

  7. b waghorn 9

    Not excusing key and slater but why did Goff lye?

    [lprent: Why do you think that he wanted to use a strong alkali solution? Please amuse us. In other words please learn to spell – spell checkers cannot improve stupid users…. ]

    • Anne 9.1

      b waghorn… he didn’t lie!

      It was Warren Tucker (former head of the SIS) who did the lying. There was a briefing note containing the information that Phil Goff was not allowed to keep, so he never got a chance to read it. He had to rely on Tucker’s verbal briefing. Tucker CHOSE not to mention it to him. Hence, Phil Goff was NOT informed.

      • alwyn 9.1.1

        You can prove this of course, can you?
        No doubt you were there and know that Tucker never mentioned it?
        What is your “evidence” for your claim?

        • McFlock 9.1.1.1

          Did you bother to read the post?

          • Paul 9.1.1.1.1

            rwnjs don’t read.

          • alwyn 9.1.1.1.2

            I did read the post.
            I have since read the report.
            There is nothing at all that shows that “Tucker CHOSE not to mention it to him”
            The nearest you can find is Phil’s hand-written note where you have Tucker saying that it was discussed with Goff and Goff denying it.
            I see why Phil, or at least someone on Phil’s side of the fence would have wanted to leak an interpretation of the document early.
            I don’t know it was Phil but it smells like him, doesn’t it?

    • SDCLFC 9.2

      He didn’t lie – he was mistaken and he admitted it. However what the report is saying is that Tucker was very casual in his briefing of Key’s office and that he misled them over what both Goff and Key were briefed about.

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 9.3

      Goff did not lie.

      “But the investigation found not all the relevant information was released.

      There was, apparently, a note signed by Mr Goff and Dr Tucker which confirmed there was no briefing on the Israeli spies.”
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/260144/report-set-to-criticise-agency,-pm's-office

    • b waghorn 9.4

      If you don’t like me here ban me

      • lprent 9.4.1

        Why? You haven’t done anything wrong. You are just a consistently sloppy speller and have a habit of using actual words incorrectly.

        At some point it will cause issues that will draw my attention. Just check your comments *before* pressing submit.

        • b waghorn 9.4.1.1

          Actual words? I’ll keep it in mind although I put manners ahead of spelling.

          • McFlock 9.4.1.1.1

            That’s what the pilgrim thought until he offered to let a fellow traveller ride his ass.

            • Clemgeopin 9.4.1.1.1.1

              That is so funny!…

              Worthy of Confucius (551–479 BC) the very wise Chinese teacher, editor, politician and philosopher of the Spring and Autumn period of Chinese history,

              or at least John Marwood Cleese, English actor, comedian, writer and film producer,

              or, Mark Twain, American adventurer, wily intellectual, author of classic novels, riverboat pilot, journalist, lecturer, entrepreneur and inventor.

            • b waghorn 9.4.1.1.1.2

              Took me all day to get that one very good 🙂

          • In Vino 9.4.1.1.2

            You lack sound knowledge in both areas, judging by contributions so far. Given the recent admissions, explain how Goff ‘lyed’.

            • b waghorn 9.4.1.1.2.1

              Would I of asked the question if I knew. Little was just asked on TV 3 about it and he dodged the question.

          • lprent 9.4.1.1.3

            When I’m moderating I’m unconcerned about manners except where I see *pointless* abuse. What I am concerned about is when I see things that are likely to cause dumb and pointless discussions.

            One of those things is consistent misspellings. Usually it is of people’s names and often deliberate. So I get heavy handed over them, because persistence in that area pays off for moderators. Whereas trying to prevent people from expressing their feelings does not.

    • greywarshark 9.5

      lprent
      Please allow b waghorn some slack – he/she makes good cogent comments even if you have to ‘read between the letters’. And the lye: I think this was actually inventing a new word, sort of portmanteau, for a lie by Key. A really egregious one!

      (This comment went into moderation – as did the ones yesterday.)

      • b waghorn 9.5.1

        Thanks greywarshark some of what you said is right I hope but it was a spelling mistake plane and simple , one of the reasons I come here is to try to get the dust out of the corners of my mind . I truly had no idea Goff hadn’t told a fib today’s news has cleared that up.

  8. Matthew Hooton 10

    These reports can’t be right because on 18 August 2014 John Key told the media pack that his office has nothing to do with the Goff OIA release.

    • Peter 10.1

      ……. we good Kiwis’ all know that whatever Mr Key says goes …. no need to question …… we are in good hands ………. this conversation can now cease

    • Mark 10.2

      Slide that knife a bit deeper there Matthew. You haven’t got any of the major organs yet. But don’t stop trying.

      • greywarshark 10.2.1

        @ Mark
        Oh. I thought you might be talking about a cake-knife, possibly a ‘Let them eat cake’ moment.

    • Anne 10.3

      Stop your stirring MH… even in jest. Yeah, contrary to your public claims, many on the left have a very good sense of humour – perhaps a bit too subtle for rwnjs at times.

      But this is no joke. It goes to the heart of the corrupt practices involving this government and it’s toadies.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 10.3.1

        Obviously MH hasnt checked his inbox, he possibly cant comment now that all those government jobs he tendered for have all come back accepted.

        There is especially the comms work for Rennie and SSC, as there regular is on extended sick leave.

        • Matthew Hooton 10.3.1.1

          Oh, don’t worry. I am very much looking forward to commenting on this. It’s disgraceful and I’m quite pleased to have picked it right back in August.

          • geoff 10.3.1.1.1

            A stopped clock is right at least twice a day.

            Now didn’t you also say the election was going to be incredibly close? Powerpoint presentations and everything, right?

            • Matthew Hooton 10.3.1.1.1.1

              The election was close. Epsom, Ohariu and TTT decided it.

              • Tracey

                Are you so sure nzf would go with the left?

                Will you be calling for the PM to resign? Will you say there is no proof that Key knew so he can stay?

                • karol

                  Hooton, almost calls for Key to resign, but tweeted it in a very qualified way:

                  If IGIS report as bad as media says, @johnkeypm will be under pressure to resign. Allegations worse than what @JudithCollinsMP sacked for.

                  In a “Some people might say that, but I couldn’t say”, kind of way.

    • b waghorn 10.4

      Key must of had one of his other hats on,on the day he told slater what to ask for

    • whateva next? 10.5

      Mathew, why don’t you say SOMETHING that actually counts, that contributes to the greater good, something that is relevant or means something…….?

      • Matthew Hooton 10.5.1

        Like, this is the worst crisis of Key’s prime ministership because it shows either his office and spy agency were completely out of control or he is lying? That’s what I wrote back in August. See my Metro piece “Key and Friends” from 28 August.

        • whateva next? 10.5.1.1

          we already knew that, but the “business as usual” model overrides all apparently in your world

    • Shrubbery 10.6

      That moment, fast approaching, where a prominent political commentator finally realises that his idol lies. Hopefully you do it on public tv for extra entertainment.

      • Peter 10.6.1

        The new book about Lance Armstrong’s continual denials “Cycle of Lies” appears to have a few parallels in this saga.

    • Tracey 10.7

      Heeheehee

  9. RedBaronCV 11

    And is it not time that the SIS reports to a parliamentary committee of the prime minister, the leader of the opposition and one other opposition leader selected from the smaller parties. That would keep the SIS and the tories honest.

    • SDCLFC 12.1

      A link for the unwaged?

    • RedBaronCV 12.2

      On a commission Matty?

    • Lanthanide 12.3

      Or, apparently, we didn’t read it, because of the paywall.

      • Matthew Hooton 12.3.1

        There was no paywall on this one: http://metromag.co.nz/city-life/columnists/key-and-friends/

        PS. Metro’s lawyers are more cautious than NBR’s. They made me change “This can’t possibly be true.” to “Could this be true?” But it still makes the point I think.

        • RedLogix 12.3.1.1

          Still the line is going to be that Key had nothing to do with it. It was only the department he was responsible for after all – and that doesn’t count.

          • ghostwhowalksnz 12.3.1.1.1

            Doesnt work when the SIS and his office were in the attack together.

            Plus hes used up his ‘poor judgement’ cards this last week.

          • Pascals bookie 12.3.1.1.2

            That doesn’t get him out of his statements after Dirty Politics was released though. He denied his office had had anything to do with it.

          • Tracey 12.3.1.1.3

            Agree.

            Anyone want to bet there will be headlines calling for Key to resign? I wont take that bet.

        • SDCLFC 12.3.1.2

          Just read the metro article. You say Goff was no angel because he misled the public about what he was briefed. However as I read it the report is set to say that Tucker misled Goff over what was in the report, or that he didn’t disclose all to Goff that he did to the Prime Minister. Does that change your view on Goff’s initial response.
          In the middle of the campaign when Goff was discussing this issue and English was responding to questions regards Dirty Politics I wondered what an election between these two career politicians would be like. Me thinks a lot better for the country than the last one we just had.

          • karol 12.3.1.2.1

            RNZ reports:

            However, Cheryl Gwyn has found that Dr Tucker did not release all the relevant information. There is apparently a note signed by Mr Goff and Dr Tucker which confirms there was no briefing on the Israeli spies.

  10. Clemgeopin 13

    There is ONLY one honourable and CORRECT course of action for Key. He must RESIGN. The government should resign. The government’s coalition support parties should withdraw their support. A new government should be formed, preferably Labour led, or a re-election should be held by March.

    The very minimum is that Key should resign and leave parliament. No other BS will do. This is a very serious issue.

    • les 13.1

      you just won the Supreme Optimist Award!

    • Blue 13.2

      They’re not going to get Key on this. He’ll just come out with the usual BS as follows:

      “Ackshully, I was on holiday and knew nothing about it. My (former) chief of staff and my (former) employee Jason Ede may have misjudged the situation. Cam Slater is nothing to do with me. No, it doesn’t mean anything that I call him Cam. Or that I call him. You know, my office just relied on what the (former) head of the SIS, Warren Tucker told them. The SIS is apologising to Goff and I will tell my office to behave themselves in future. Yes, I will tell them that in my capacity as Prime Minister. I will not do it while I’m putting the cat out. Look, I don’t think this is the sort of thing that matters to most New Zealanders. Maybe you should have a chat to Chris Finlayson, I am only the (former) Minister in charge of the SIS, you know, and I’ve got some terrorists to go catch now. Big, bad Islamic terrorists hiding right here in Nu Zilland, so if you’ll excuse me…”

      • Clemgeopin 13.2.1

        I hope the opposition and more importantly the media and the political commentators will do their job and call Key on this very important issue. If not, shame on them and will be a permanent disgrace to the nation.

      • Weepus beard 13.2.2

        They’re not going to get Key on this. He’ll just come out with the usual BS

        This.

        Nothing will happen because the seriousness of it has already been re-framed by the govt and media.

        The sheeple of NZ will continue to be infatuated with The Block.

        Expect the flag debate to get some serious promotion in the next while to further distract from any negative thoughts about John Key. They might even give Buck Shelford’s jersey to a Chinese dictator as a marketing stunt.

        Oh wait…they did that already.

    • dave 13.3

      instead protesting up queen st we need to protest outside keys house with no respect at all for this corrupt crook

  11. Jrobin 14

    Did John Key mislead Parliament about this?

  12. RedLogix 15

    The fun part will seeing how Farrar spins it. It will be masterly to watch.

  13. Macro 16

    Meanwhile The Greens are calling for a Royal Commission
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1411/S00293/royal-commission-needed-pms-office-in-dirty-politics.htm
    One hopes Labour, and NZ First, will also join the call.
    The opposition need a united voice on this.

    • Macro 16.1

      Furthermore, in another instance of abuse of power – this time just before the past Election – Key is at it again!
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1411/S00187/key-used-gcsb-for-political-ends-prior-to-2014-election.htm
      This sort of behaviour is completely unacceptable and an arrogant abuse of power and privilege. He got away with it with Goff, and then he runs similar attack lines – using “his” spies for his own political ends.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 16.2

      The greens ALWAYS call for a royal commission, its the sort of thing the powerless do.
      The investigation had the powers to compel witnesses to testify, no RC needed.

      We have found the guilty, its time for judgement, not to kick the can down the road for 9 months.

      Dont you really want the JoKey to say cant comment, its in the hands of a Royal Commission!
      The greens are wrong on this , as they so often are. Some think they are a government in waiting, they arent even up to an opposition in waiting

      • Macro 16.2.1

        Sorry – don’t agree with you on this!
        And this is a prime example of why Labour will NEVER get back the support from the people it held in the past. It’s arrogance and we know best attitude (well displayed by yourself) is guaranteed to get peoples backs up. People have had enough of it. Until Labour can learn to work with other parties on the left, and discard the deadwood from its neo-liberal past, it will continue to be a party in decline.
        Everything you say may well be true, but the fact remains that a Royal Commission has a status in the public eye that even a formal investigation does not have. Furthermore it has greater powers and will not be so easy to lead to a whitewash.

      • Tracey 16.2.2

        The reason we have this report is the Greens laid an official complaint.

  14. emergency mike 17

    Ok so, the SIS worked with John Key’s office to use priviledged information in a way that would damage the govt’s political opponents. I’m sure Key of course knew nothing about what his office and the department he was then minister of was up to. Nothing to do with John Key. Oh noes.

    It’s fine though, relax folks: the SIS is going to say sorry. All sorted.

    Go back to watching Gary and Jen renovating their kitchen on telly. Sleep now. The spy bill is fine, giving them even more unaccountable power is fine, nothing to hide, nothing to fear. Sleeeeepppp. Sure it seems as if NIcky Hager was right, but we told you it was rubbish then, so just keep on believing that, just hold on to that, just because. And what about the flag, terrorists, kitchens… ok? Good. Labour did it too.

  15. Jrobin 18

    Forget the royal Commision too slow and open to corruption. Key is a lame duck now, he needs pushing hard by Little. He will make a mistake under pressure and forget which of his cover ups he is onto. Resign now Key and take Rennie and Kibblewhite with you.

  16. Paul 19

    sslands, c73, BM et al will be receiving the spoonfed lines as we speak.
    Expect them to foul this site soon.

  17. Zolan 20

    Dirty Politics? Oh, that’s old news. We heard about it months ago and decided it wasn’t a big deal, remember? We got on with business as usual and had an election.
    All this inquiry stuff is just filling in trivia for geeks who are into that sort of thing. Booooring.

    /sarc

  18. NZJester 21

    If they gave Cameron Slater a heads up about still classified at the time information then they should be charged with leaking classified information.

    As for Key he has the old “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” defense that he will bring up again. Considering it is his office he seams to be the only person who has no idea what is going on within it. Does he even know who works for him in that office? After all he seamed to not know when Jason Ede stopped working for him.
    By the way is using a card you are no longer entitled to use because you no longer work there to enter parliament and use its resources less or greater than the crime of bypassing security at an airport?

    Maybe just like how some times John Key is a private citizen and not the Prime-minister when talking to Cameron Slater, perhaps Phil De Joux and Jason Ede where just private citizens at the time they spoke to him also and the fact they miss-used government equipment to learn about the information and inform Mr Slater of its existence has nothing to do with the Prime-ministers office at all.

    Maybe John Key is the poor dumb fool who knows nothing at all that he makes out he is in his press conferences when asked questions about what he knew and when.

  19. fisiani 22

    The rabid Left will want to make this seem like the worst ever example of politics when all it turns out to be is a rapid disclosure of of a lie by Phil Goff. Does anyone think it will have legs? Will anyone care?

    • Paul 22.1

      The tr***s have arrived.
      zzzzzzzzzzz

    • Macro 22.2

      Ok! So the lie is to be that Goff lied – hoping that no one will read the report and see that it was Tucker who lied and the PM and his toadies were complicit in all this.
      Thanks for the heads up fis

    • dave 22.3

      wrong your key wanker used a government security service for political gain that is corrupt and if you think that ok your as corrupt as he is

    • Puddleglum 22.4

      Hi Fisiani,

      It’s often a good idea to read the links in a post thoroughly before commenting.

      See >this previous comment in the thread.

      It seems that Goff did not lie.

    • Inky 22.5

      @ fisiani

      Those with principles will care quite a lot, I should think.

    • halfcrown 22.6

      As a rabid right winger, I bet if it was a Labour government in power you would be the first to howl “communist takeover” or something similar.
      “Will anyone care?” We should all be concerned over this, irrespective what political colour we are, if in the future we don’t want somebody similar to the KGB, Stazi, or Gestapo giving us a visit at 5.0am in the morning.

  20. Gruntie 23

    Make no mistake – if this was happening in Australia, Key would be slaughtered not only by the media but also public opinion / here in Planet Key, the media and the public act like they are stoned on dope they are so relaxed about it all

  21. Penny Bright 24

    Seems that this report of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security is going to prove that the Office of the Prime Minister is completely out of control.

    Last time I heard from Wayne Eagleson, John Key’s Chief of Staff, this nest of spin-doctor vipers, whose job is to cover John Key’s butt as Leader of the National Party, had 30 staff.

    But the role of the Office of the Prime Minister is not covered by statute or regulation, protocol or procedure.

    Their role is intensely party-political, they are NOT impartial, top level public servants, as are supposed to be the DEPARTMENT of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC).

    It is an absolute outrage to democracy that the SIS should be having ANY direct contact with ANYONE from John Key’s own effectively personal PRIVATE office.

    End of story.

    Penny Bright

    • Paul 24.1

      There are only 2 options.
      Either the government is utterly incompetent..they don’t know/ cant control these agencies
      Or they are utterly corrupt.

      Whichever, it’s hardly the week to be extending the spy agency’s powers.

  22. chris73 25

    Haven’t received my check yet so I shouldn’t really comment except…yawn, no one cares but it won’t stop the left pushing this

  23. Murray Rawshark 26

    I’d like to see Key resign over this. If we had a functioning democracy, he’d have to.

    • Ditto, the Nats run on hubris and the fumes of their own rhetoric.

      But there will likely be some detail, a weak link or snitch that sinks them but it would be nice to have some left unity too and the odd strike and occupation to keep the pressure on while researchers and lawyers do their thing.

  24. Whateva next? 27

    Watergate was a slow burner, and Nixon was re elected before being impeached…….

  25. One Anonymous Bloke 28

    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has the power to make the SIS say sorry. I hope she doesn’t get dizzy.

    …The bulldogs all have rubber teeth…

  26. The spotlight and pressure will be on Key over this, as it should be, especially with the SIS being involved.

    This is newsworthy because it has been exposed, and Whale Oil has painted a very large target around his blowhole.

    But I doubt it’s the first time a Prime Minister’s office, or any political office, has colluded with some sort of journalist to try and embarrass opponents. I think it’s been quite common.

    If bringing this to attention leads to cleaning up politics a bit – Whale’s fins have already been clipped – then it will be worth it, but I suspect it’s just the time that it was found out rather than an isolated or unusual political tactic.

    • Paul 29.1

      Obfuscation as ever.

      “But I doubt it’s the first time a Prime Minister’s office, or any political office, has colluded with some sort of journalist to try and embarrass opponents. I think it’s been quite common.”

      Have you read Dirty Politics?
      Provide evidence that previous PMs/ governments/ministers have done anything like what is documented in Hager’s book.

      This is unprecedented.

      Key is either utterly incompetent or utterly corrupt.
      You pick,

      • Pete George 29.1.1

        “Have you read Dirty Politics?”

        Yes. Some of it highlights some very unsavoury stuff involving Slater and associates (if links directly to the PM are proven it will be correctly be a big issue), some of it is overblown, and some of it appears to be incorrect (Hager has admitted at least one mistake).

        • karol 29.1.1.1

          Wow! Way to take a very slanted position!

          This Goff-smear attack, in which the SIS colluded with the PM’s office, is one of the big allegations in the book, and it now looks to be being shown to be correct. It is very damning stuff.

          • Sacha 29.1.1.1.1

            Pete, you’re being ridiculous. Hager got wrong the gender of one of the PM’s behind-scenes advisors. That’s all.

        • framu 29.1.1.2

          “But I doubt it’s the first time a Prime Minister’s office, or any political office, has colluded with some sort of journalist to try and embarrass opponents. ”

          well that statement from you proves that you either didnt read it, didnt understand it or are deliberately trying to minimise the issue

          explain how the PM using the power of the state to launch covert attacks on political opponents using a known hate blogger, interferring in local selection processes and manipulating the media is in any way remotely close to, or even accurately and honestly described as, “colluding with some sort of jounalist”?

        • lprent 29.1.1.3

          Hager has admitted at least one mistake

          That must be a shock to you. Providing an example for others to follow.

          But it’d also be true to say that so far most of his book, where alternate sources have become available, has proved to be completely accurate at a factual level? Perhaps you could enlighten us about that rather than spinning to the negative.

          It is what I have come to expect of Hager. I might disagree with his interpretations and conclusions (and frequently do). But he nails down the facts before he publishes.

        • Tracey 29.1.1.4

          One mistake is not some mistakes. Post the other things hager got wrong?

    • lprent 29.2

      Last time I can remember such a clear breach of the seperation between prime ministerial politics and the state apparatus was Muldoon with Colin Moyle and others. There was no way that Jason Ede should have even known about the contents of a SIS briefing. His source must have been Key or someone who Key had (illegally) given access to that information.

      Perhaps you’d like to check some facts and point to instances rather than making foolish blanket assertions?

      • RedLogix 29.2.1

        Still Muldoon survived the Moyle business quite unscathed.

        Everyone will just run the line that Key was ‘not involved’. There will be zero mention of him being the Minister responsible for the SIS or anything like potentially messy that.

        Key is popular and has just won a landslide election – and looks like winning several more. No way he’s a crook!

        Or to put it another way – the unwashed punters in voterland either don’t care or are secretly pleased the Key has used his position to attack Labour like this.

        • Macro 29.2.1.1

          Which is why there has to be a more formal investigation into this, so that Key can’t weasel his way out of it. It may shut him up while the commission is in session – but that is all to the good as he will not be able to give his spin.

          This is a huge abuse of power and NZ as a whole needs to understand its implications.

          • RedLogix 29.2.1.1.1

            Yes – on reflection you are right.

            There was quite a bit of reaction at the time of the Moyle affair. It has to be one of my earliest political memories – even back then I knew it wasn’t right.

            My residual concern with an investigation is that it’s a pretty narrow basis – albeit a serious one – to topple a government. (I’m thinking if Key did resign it would likely force a no-confidence vote in Parliament.)

            Unless such an investigation could establish a wider pattern – it might turn out fruitless.

        • rawshark-yeshe 29.2.1.2

          RedLogix .. being picky, sorry … not sure Muldoon survived unscathed. Eventually, it led to his removal with the election of David Lange who replaced Colin Moyle after his forced resignation in the Mangere electorate.

          It was a slow burn but remarkable in its justice. It was a filthy, filthy business.

      • alwyn 29.2.2

        Helen Clark’s claims about Peter Doone would seem to be fairly similar.
        Mind you Helen learned from that and was very cautious from then on in actually getting herself involved.
        She tended to have Trevor Mallard throw the manure after that.
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10122718
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10123931

        • Tracey 29.2.2.1

          Did you think that behaviour was ok?

          • alwyn 29.2.2.1.1

            No I don’t think the behaviour was OK.
            I think that both Rob Muldoon and Helen Clark were terrible in their behaviour.

        • Murray Rawshark 29.2.2.2

          It is not “fairly similar” at all.

          1. The fact that a cop abused his authority and the PM confirmed it had happened.

          2. Classified information was mentioned to a scummy attack blogger, by a prumsteral staffer who should never have none about it. A subsequent request to the SIS sees inaccurate information provided, edited to show the leader of the opposition in a bad light.

          If they’re similar, readers should have a hard job identifying which is which.

          • alwyn 29.2.2.2.1

            Unfortunately, although Helen Clark may have told the Herald that it happened it hadn’t. She was making it up.
            I suggest you look at the story I linked to where it says
            “Mr Doone has always denied he said that and the newspaper later apologised, saying it accepted the comment was not made.”

            • Murray Rawshark 29.2.2.2.1.1

              Senior police officers lie all the time. So do newspapers. They are extremely careful about printing anything negative about police actions, because the first thing that happens is that their invitations to press conferences get withdrawn.

              Your leader lies as well, so this information may not surprise you.

              I have had contact with both Helen Clark and Ngati Poaka. Helen never lied to me. Ngati poaka seldom told the truth.

    • Tracey 29.3

      Sources??

  27. Dont worry. Be happy 30

    Important to always keep in mind the report that started all this…..that Israeli spies may have been working in Christchurch and been caught out by the earthquake. Keep your eye on the ball.

    • Chooky 30.1

      Yes didn’t they have a stash of multiple passports also….which were hastily retrieved by the Israeli authorities who ferreted the Israeli spies out of Christchurch and the country very fast…. before they could answer any questions

      … also very suspicious given Israeli agents former history in New Zealand

      identitieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel%E2%80%93New_Zealand_passport_scandal )

    • greywarshark 30.2

      Don’t worry
      Good point. There is so much fog swirling around that one can lose sight of the substance of the matter.

  28. Chooky 31

    Andrew Little is a very good communicator:

    The new Labour leader Andrew Little says any apology made today on behalf of the SIS, won’t go far enough.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20158520/andrew-little-says-sis-apology-wouldn't-go-far-enough

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20158517/sis-report-likely-to-show-dirty-politics-book-right

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20158516/radio-new-zealand's-political-editor-on-sis-report

    …and Paul Buchanan is absolutely damning of John Key’s office using the SIS to their own personal political ends …link not yet up

    • Tracey 31.1

      And the herald quotes little extensively demanding an apology from key to goff but frankly key needs to apologise to nzers for the behaviour at the time and the lying about it during the recent campaign.

      Remember someone from keys office flew to suttons press conference. We still dont know why

      • Zolan 31.1.1

        In the RNZ interview, Little insisted precisely that: “It’s he who needs to apologise to the public of New Zealand.”
        It’s the interviewer who framed the question as Key apologising to Goff, but Little didn’t affirm that framing at all, focusing primarily on who should apologise and why, and sticking to the wider context of public interest.

  29. philj 33

    @srylands
    .” I deny that anyone has ever fed me any lines to use on this site.”
    Which sites are you fed lines to use on?

  30. Ad 34

    More New Zealanders will see Key as tainted, granted. But these remain administrative issues best left to mainstream media to unravel. Revenge of the righteous for electoral loss isn’t enough.

    Unless Little can make a broad theme of it that translates to concrete public wellbeing, I see only minor corrosion.

    • Chooky 34.1

      imo it is very serious for democracy and John key should be held accountable…there MUST be a wide ranging independent inquiry …. Key, as head of his Prime Minister’s Office and with oversight of the SIS , should be called to account under oath

      …. as Mike Williams points out on Ninetonoon

      (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20158544/political-commentators-on-the-gwyn-inquiry )

      Phil Goff was made to look incompetent or a liar just before an Election which was lost by Phil Goff and Labour by only a few thousand votes

      ( this undermining of Goff could have swung the Election)

      ….and this undermining/ smearing of Goff was a set up

      ( he did NOT receive the FULL report on the Israelis…he received an EDITED report by the Head of the SIS…this is why he did NOT remember it! …he did not get the FULL report!)

      …not only this, but Cameron Slater ‘Whale Oil’ was leaked the report from the Prime Ministers Office and he proceeded to attack Goff on a report which Goff had never read in its entirety

      This is VERY SERIOUS !

    • Inky 34.2

      @srylands
      “I deny that anyone has ever fed me any lines to use on this site.”

      I did not have sexual intercourse with that woman.

  31. Macro 35

    You have to admire the weasel Matthew H on RNZ just now! Key had

    NOTHING

    to do with it

    Yeah Right!

    • Tracey 35.1

      But he said any leader who knows as little about the poor behaviour going on around him, in his cabinet, his office and his portfolios is not fit to lead a country, right?

      • Macro 35.1.1

        But notice how he was quick to make the distinction that this was NOT the PM’s department but the National Party appointment so therefore not the role of PM. (You know – one of the many roles our dear leader assumes.) So really it’s not as bad as if it was actually the PM’s office. Kathy was quick to agree!

        Of course, our dear leader is not actually responsible for any of the things those in his many offices do! I mean how could he be, he has far too many things to be doing to be responsible for people who work in his office. And of course they never tell him anything because he is soooo busy, so how could he know! We know this, because he either knows nothing, or has forgotten. So we can’t expect him to actually take any responsibility at all! It’s amazing that we give him the responsibility of running the Government.

  32. greywarshark 36

    I thought it was quite a good discussion between Kathryn Ryan Matthew and Mike. Yes Matthew did make sure that there was a scenario put forward that would show Key in a better light, but then he is a RW and expected to look after his side. Both men wanted the full information to come out and be properly pursued.

    Goff is being interviewed around 10 this morning.

    • Chooky 36.1

      +100 @greywarshark…yes I agree….i thought it was a good airing of the issues….and Mike Williams was particularly good (…i didnt find Matthew Hooton too bad either…)

  33. Tracey 37

    did Key announce Edes resignation straight after the election, when he had actually resigned the day before the election!?

    “… Key said this morning he understood Ede had resigned, but that he had not suggested he Ede so.

    “[Ede] decided the time has come for him to leave,” Key said on TV3’s Firstline.

    Key said on RadioLive that he would not agree with how Ede was characterised in Dirty Politics, but after 11 years of loyal service, Ede had decided it was time to move on and do something different.

    Slater has previously slammed Ede’s refusal to front over the allegations, describing him as “squeamish” and gutless”.

    “You are all claiming there is this vast conspiracy – it simply doesn’t exist. That Jason Ede is some sort of ringmaster? In my view, Jason Ede is squeamish, and gutless,” he told the New Zealand Herald.

    “And the fact he has gone to ground and hiding and not speaking to anybody suggests that’s true.”

    The National Party is refusing to elaborate this afternoon on Ede’s resignation, declining a Fairfax request to speak with party president Peter Goodfellow.
    Ad Feedback

    Instead it issued a short statement.

    “Jason Ede advised of his resignation, effective immediately, on Friday. Along with the Prime Minister and his office, we thank Jason for his 11 years of service to the National Party and wish him well for his future.” …” stuff.co.nz 22 September

    “.Prime Minister John Key confirmed the resignation on TV3’s Firstline this morning.

    “… He’s given 11 long years to the party and loyal service to the party. There are some comments made in the [Dirty Politics] book that I think we would all strongly disagree with. His primary role really started out as a media person for us and part of his role was talking to bloggers,” Mr Key said… …” nbr

  34. tricledrown 38

    Mac yet later MH says Key is both incharge of the SIS and Wayne Eagleston who are deeply involved for Key to claim he didn’t know anything is not possible.
    Then During the election recently kept spinning the Crosby Textered lie this is all a left wing conspiracy.
    Key must resign!
    Colluding to rig 2 Elections by Corruption and Lying.

    • geoff 38.1

      Hooton is gunning for Wayne Eagleson who has previously done him out of getting government contracts. He talked about it in detail on Radio Live a few months ago.
      He may be correct but he does also have an axe to grind.

  35. Murray Rawshark 39

    Not too many leaders since Ancient Rome have had a government security agency working directly for them. Nixon tried it and Gadaffi probably had one, but the most famous example is the Schutzstaffel. This is the territory into which FJK is boldly leading us, and the Godwin chain has been considerably shortened.

  36. barry 40

    Key! Lying and Spying since 2008

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