Have a Drink Hoss!

Written By: - Date published: 10:26 am, October 21st, 2015 - 55 comments
Categories: labour, political parties - Tags: , , ,

So, by my understanding, in ‘three party’* Canada, the New Democratic Party sought the center and nosedived. Simultaneously, the Liberals moved left and soared.

In ‘two party’ England and Wales, Labour sought the center and bumbled and scraped the ground looking for lift off. Meanwhile, in the very same election in ‘three party’ Scotland where the SNP went left, the SNP soared while Labour got more or less wiped out.

What’s the question hoss? (hint) You’re looking thirsty hoss.

* I mean the number of major parties.

55 comments on “Have a Drink Hoss!”

  1. dukeofurl 1

    And the independence AND left leaning BQ were virtually irrelevant.

    The idea that NDP moved to the centre is a bit tenuous. There are many many policies that are to the left of the Liberals.

    eg C$15 ph minimum wage,

  2. dukeofurl 2

    Some sort of glitch here has deleted my edit with more policies and links.

    Ending Keystone XL pipeline.

    Increasing taxes on companies and ending stock options tax breaks ( this is how they balance the budget)

    Increasing assistance for low income families

  3. vto 3

    That is what happens when you do / don’t act with the conviction of your beliefs…

  4. ScottGN 4

    Trudeau only really outflanked the NDP on the left over one issue and that was his intention to run 3 years of budget deficits in order to finance infrastructure spending mostly across Canada’s cities. The Liberal’s had realised that in an era of stagnant growth, zero inflation and rock bottom interest rates the threat of budgets deficits no longer has any sting.
    While Trudeau’s polling rise can be measured from this announcement that’s not why the Liberals won yesterday. Canadians overwhelmingly wanted a new prime minister and a change of tone from government and when the NDP started to falter in their stronghold of Quebec (thanks to the Tories inexplicable decision to re-ignite the niqab controversy thus upending the delicate three-way split that had delivered them a majority at the previous election) voters realised that only the Liberals could deliver that change.

    • dukeofurl 4.1

      See reference above about increasing taxes to ‘balance the budget’

      • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

        Balancing the budget is a right wing agenda.

        • dukeofurl

          Not really, the so called balance or surplus is imaginary, as they still need to borrow heaps to pay the bills.

          Ask Bill about the $6 billion he is borrowing to get his ‘small surplus’ and NDP were increasing their revenue to get theirs and do doubt borrowing heaps as well.
          The liberals were not going to increase taxes for business or profits on buying stocks so that according to Bill is a ‘shift to the left”?

        • David H

          Surely that’s. Attempting to balance the Budget is a right wing agenda. The left, just get it done

      • Bob 4.1.2

        Don’t forget the tax cuts for the middle tax bracket (up to $89,401pa.), dropping the retirement age back to 65, and effectively Working for families for households earning up to $200k (not $100k like the NZ version): https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/10/A-new-plan-for-a-strong-middle-class.pdf
        These are the people that seem to be forgotten about by Labour, the Middle Class, this is where the votes are.

        • Draco T Bastard

          At those figures you’re not talking middles class but the top 1%.

          • Bob

            Really? http://transportblog.co.nz/tag/central-city/
            Look at the second graph in this piece, I think your view on ‘Middle Class’ is completely at odds with reality. Don’t feel too bad though, Labour seems to have the same views as you.

            (Sorry about the source, can’t believe I have to use a council transport blog for this but the Stats NZ site is horrible now!)

            • Draco T Bastard

              Admittedly Stats NZ website is now arse but you failed to link to anything remotely related to the discussion. The Auckland Transport Blog focusses upon Auckland.

              Try this one instead (That should open a PDF document).

              • Bob

                Have a look at my link again, the Purple bars in the graph represent the NZ median household incomes. The Salvation Army link you sent through relates to Wealth (not what we are discussing) and per capita income (a useless measure when it comes to tax).

    • Liberal Realist 4.2

      +1 bang on.

  5. Kevin 5

    I think the result in Canada and prior to that Scotland, goes to prove that the natural inclination for people is socialism, and I do not mean this in the political sense. The majority of us choose to live in communities of other people, we like being amongst other people and everyday in our work situations we work and co-operate with other people.

    The challenge for political parties then is to transfer this to the political realm and provide policies that reinforce ‘socialism’ where co-operation and working together achieves results that benefit everyone.

    When you pander to a specific demographic, baby-boomers for example, and enact policy that benefits them directly but to the detriment of others you establish a following that can be hard to dismantle politically. They are a large portion of the population and their sense of entitlement is pretty well embedded into their psyche.

    When you see a gradual destruction of the middle class which encompasses many of the baby boom generation maybe it starts to hit home to those people, and they finally start questioning their own selfish motivations?

    Just an opinion…

    • Grindlebottom 5.1

      Is part of the problem young people are demanding change to a more equitable sharing of wealth & opportunity, and better treatment of the unfortunate such as the unemployed, sick and homeles? How do you get them engaged in learning and debate about political alternatives, and in actually voting? Especially when they probably see little real difference between the two main parties.

      • dukeofurl 5.1.1

        Are they ?
        Thats the largest group that dont vote, so not much evidence of ‘demanding change’
        As for getting involved in political alternatives, it doesnt seem they interested at all.

        • Colonial Viper

          That’s why Labour has ditched reaching out to the “Missing Million.”

          • BM

            Yep, it’s a waste of time and resources.

            • Colonial Viper

              Then they should come out and just say it, instead of pretending to care what ordinary NZers below the median of society think.

              • Grindlebottom

                That’ll teach me to proof read properly before posting next time.

                My opening post should’ve read:

                “Is part of the problem not enough young people are demanding change…”

          • Ch-ch Chiquita

            Then why dont they go left of Labour and vote greens?

      • b waghorn 5.1.2

        Its a shame about mana they were the only outfit that had a chance of waking up a lot of none voters ,and you can bet the ones who had got on the mana train and got sold out for $3 million are unlikely to vote again.

      • Smilin 5.1.3

        I suppose if the thinking of the under 30s was allowed to cast caution to the wind and jeopardise their futures by an all out revolt against the monetarists who have their lives hog tied by finance and intelligence robots. These monetarists are the Gestapo of the under 30s self determination. The vote might begin to have some true meaning if they got a 60s style counterculture movement working again .
        Quite honestly the 35 to 55s who have all the power to control the younger and older generations really need their cage rattled big time, they are so convinced their cruisey bs lifestyle of all that money can buy will always be there
        These controllers nearly had to pay up in 2008 except arch whingers like our PM got in and let them off the hook .Goes to show ya the truth about those who have the money have the power and it lives on in Infamy
        Bloody fascists most of them or some form of rightwing control freak mentality

    • The Other Mike 5.2

      Yeah… agree. See what is happening in the USA too with Bernie Sanders lighting a big fire in the bellies of disenchanted (and disenfranchised!) voters.

      HE is resonating with young people as well.

      Labour is due a left turn.

      • Colonial Viper 5.2.1

        The careerists in Labour prefer to stay on the good side of the corporate elite and the 1% rather than be on the good side of the bottom 50%.

        • kenny

          Problem is there are no Left wingers in the Labour caucus, at least I can’t think of any. Even Andrew Little is too centrist for my liking.

          Maybe Ruth Dyson.

          • dukeofurl

            You mean far left ?
            You are looking in wrong party. Plenty of people like that stand for parliament but win a handful of votes.
            Its not a viable choice.

  6. Ad 6

    That’s like hoping Winston Peters loses 30 years, fronts mild left before the election, Labour tanks to under 20%, and every 70yr housewife throws their knickers so Tom Jones-like Winnie gets to be Prime Minister.

    Yeah nah.

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      Or maybe Labour could get a clue when its staring them in the face, and stop shadowing National in the centre-right.

  7. weka 7

    Hoss? Is that a Bonanza reference? (it’s gone right over my head).

  8. Colonial Viper 8

    But, Tony Blair!

    As if that war monger, highly paid bankster servant, should be an example to what remains of the Labour Party.

  9. Tory 9

    The Lib Dems of Canada are essentially a centralist party, not unlike Labour of NZ. You cannot compare the politics of overseas FPP elections with NZ and make the same conclusions (i.e. the more left parties move, the greater the vote).
    NZ MMP has for a long time seen the vote pretty evenly split between left and right, elections are decided with single digit percentages. Compared to the old FPP elections we do not see the extremes occur (such as when a party votes collapses totally).
    NZ is a prime example of centralist parties capturing the vote (such as National). Sure the hard left and hard right supporters will espouse the various conspiracy theories regarding their own views but the reality is there is bugger all difference between NZ Labour and NZ National and believe it or not, that is what the population vote for,

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      lol Tory, National are a neoliberal corporation loving party. Nothing centrist about them – apart from being focussed on the centre of the 1% that is.

      Time to shift politics to the left.

      • kenny 9.1.1

        But who is going to do it? Not the Greens. Social Credit is the nearest, but how much support do they get!? Good left-wing policies but they are almost off the radar, so there is a party out there but left-wingers choose to ignore it.

      • Bob 9.1.2

        “Nothing centrist about them”
        Come on CV, you know that’s bullshit.
        – Increase to benefits above the rate of inflation for the first time in god knows how long
        – Breakfast in schools
        – Increase in Early childhood care
        – Increase in paid parental leave
        – Increase of free healthcare to 13 y/o’s (from either 3 or 4 y/o’s when they took office)
        – Increases in the minimum wage above the rate of inflation every year (from $12 when they took office, to $14.75 now)

        I know I am missing plenty of other examples too.
        You may not like to think of National as centrist, but this government has proven itself to be different to National parties of old.

    • Bill 9.2

      Then do the comparison of an mmp system. The SNP touts itself as left leaning social democratic (the message); has formed the the Scottish government these past 8 years (currently a majority government); and is sitting at something like 60% in the polls for nest years’s elections with both the Tories and Labour nose-dived and dead at 20% (+/- 5%) .

  10. Tory 10

    CV, you see here in ‘lies’ the problem, what is a centralist party? National is loosing support (i.e. me) to a Right leaning party like Act as their policies are simply a mirror of Labour (and vice versa). FPP is a system that rewards the centre, look how much $ KDC threw at the election yet he got no where (and don’t serve me that conspiracy theories regarding polling etc). National sit at 47%, that is the centre of NZ politics, like it or hate it.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      National sit at 47%, that is the centre of NZ politics, like it or hate it.

      National are a right wing pro-corporate party which tends to the needs of the 1% and are driven by the dictats and interests of the 0.01%.

      Like it or hate it, that’s a fact.

    • Bill 10.2

      It’s only ‘the center’, or ‘safe zone’ of what’s on offer. A bit like going to a restuaraunt and finding that the menu consists only of various ice creams. Want a proper meal? Tough. Not on offer. And all the waiters around race to tempt you with their favorite chefs glorious vanilla…

      Not well put, but I think you’ll get the point.

  11. Tory 11

    So 47% of the voting population agree, that’s called the centre

    • McFlock 11.1

      Voting population. You forget about the third of the registered voter population too alienated from the process to vote.

      But then admitting that national only has the support of a third of the population doesn’t fit the tory delusion.

      • Bob 11.1.1

        “But then admitting that labour only has the support of a fifth of the population doesn’t fit the leftie delusion”

        • One Anonymous Bloke


          “….but, but. but, he did it too!”

        • McFlock

          For future reference, “FIFY” is an acronym for “fixed it for you”.

          Anyway, the gap between 30% and 50% is 20%.
          The gap between one third and one fifth is 13%.
          And, of course, Labour will be part of a real coalition government, rather than the support of trace-element sycophants in rotten boroughs to carry them over the threshold.

          Your point of view has almost halved the success requirement for the left in the next election. Thanks Bob, I feel much more optimistic. And you suck at spreading alarm and despondency.

  12. Bill 12

    Ah, the joys of putting up a quick post and having to disappear for the day. A couple of points.

    1. Whether any particular party is genuine with its messaging is, for the sake of this post, beside the point; it’s the message that voters vote on.

    2. this comes from 1. The stated direction of travel (genuine or otherwise) is what counts electorally.

    3. Voters can only choose from the options on offer. In a ‘two party’ situation, if one party is moving to the center, then voters have no choice beyond ‘the real McCoy and the ‘me too’ option. Hardly inspiring and kinda predictable as far as results go.

  13. DS 13

    Can we all just agree that the end of Harper is the best political news to come out of the Anglosphere in years?

    (Incidentally, I’m not sure Scotland is three party. It went from being One Party state Labour to One Party state SNP).

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  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    1 week ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    1 week ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    1 week ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago

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