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How To Get There 23/6/19

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 23rd, 2019 - 51 comments
Categories: Deep stuff - Tags:


This post is a place for positive discussion of the future.

An Open Mike for ideas, solutions and the discussion of the possible.

The Big Picture, rather than a snapshot of the day’s goings on. Topics rather than topical.

We’d like to think it’s success will be measured in the quality of comments rather than the quantity.

So have at it!

Let us know what you think …

51 comments on “How To Get There 23/6/19”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    Aren't festivals wonderful? They bring people together, encourage them to sing and dance, give gifts and eat especially prepared foods together, dress differently, mark the passage of important calendar and seasonal events; and this time of the year is thick with them; festivals that is; Matariki, Winter Solstice, Yule and equally important to my family, our daughter's 25th birthday! We dressed the big yurt, burned a fire from dawn to dawn, lit a score of lanterns, laid the table with fabulous food and goblets to receive the mulled wine and cider; children of the guests rolled about on and in the huge pile of cushions while their mums and dads, uncles, aunties and grandparents talked and talked while the music played; transitioning them from the warmth of the Big Tent to their cars was easy (they didn't want to leave) and involved a trip to the bonfire blazing in the Clay Circle; once their tired heads settled on a parent's shoulder, they were gone, back home to their beds; some stayed and slept-over, emerging for breakfast (about now) and as happy as. The music's back on (Be Good Tania's) Yesterday's festivities began with a shared plant-out of garlic cloves into soil my daughter and her partner cultivated the day before; it was surprising how enthusiastic everyone was about such a mundane task, but then there was the expectation of a party afterwards smiley

    Festivals are great and we don't have enough of them, in my view!

    • patricia bremner 1.1

      Thank you Robert for a great post and idea. We are all better for sharing and learning to be truly hospitable.yes

    • One Two 1.2

      Fantastic to read. What a beautiful occasion and imagination booster..

      Robert, did you write/post the summary of the forrest garden event you hosted a few months back?

      • Robert Guyton 1.2.1

        Yikes! I haven't yet, One Two but someone else did: I'll find it and post it.

        In the meantime, I'm watching this, right now:

        • One Two


          Thanks on all counts.

          • Robert Guyton

            Here's what Tamsin wrote:


            Something very special and unusual happened in Riverton this autumn. When I cast my mind back to the hui, it’s as if I am remembering a dream full of intense, sensory details; the cold, clear sunshine of Aparima; the taste of unusual forest-fruits, fallen at our feet; the radiant warmth of familiar and unfamiliar faces getting to know one-another; the sparking of flame from remnant embers, first thing in the morning.

            What a profound, connecting experience it was! What an honour to be held in nest-upon-nest of blessings – by mana whenua, by the Guyton whānau, and by Papatūānuku herself, glowing with appreciation. E ngā hau kainga, ngā ringa tōhaunui, me ngā kaitāuo kua whakarite i te hui, kei te mihi kei te mihi aroha ki a koutou.

            Did I mention the food? Sam and Louie: holy heck! Kohlrabi steaks, chocolate cake, local rīwai and heritage-apple pie, coconut baked-fish stacks covered in flowers… (No pressure for next year, e Taranaki contingent!)

            Permaculture is where I go for a hope-injection – and this year’s hui provided an exceptional dose. I’ve no doubt Robyn is going to save the world, starting with Southland! Soon our motu will be speckled with Longwood Loops, and there will be wildlife corridors from the mountains to the sea. Permies will speak farmer will speak Te Reo Māori. Strength in diversity: Mā tōu rourou, mā tōku rourou, ka ora ai te iwi. (With your basket and my basket, the people will live).

            We were a ragtag gathering of guardians come to cross-pollinate and sow hope and love into an unknown, emerging future. We were working at the edge of our awareness; that generative zone between diverse life experiences and contexts. Everyone contributed, and everyone received.

            We were a hui of humans taking responsibility for the safekeeping of many sacred things – of timeless tikanga, like how to look after each other and the land and seas, how to tell stories and when to sing songs, how to be healthy and regenerate the generations.. This is our job while the majority of humanity catches up. More than once I looked around the room and said to myself “thank god you all exist!”

            We’re doing okay, whānau. Keep it up.

            • One Two

              Wonderfully descriptive writing and photos. Fantastic to have the photo visual to add to the images I had formed from your lead up articles , prior to the hui itself…

              I genuinely believe that permaculture , including hemp..can save the world…

              Moreover, that those who are already deeply involved are enabling and fostering a desire and furnace in others…showing a pathway of hope…a hope injection…so apt.

              Thanks for posting, Robert.

  2. Treetop 2

    How to get there?

    This is the question which I would ask the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the treatment of those in state care and faith based care.

    Another question I would ask.

    Why is there no child trauma psychologist on the panel?

    There needs to be one to guide the panel in matters of the position those who appear before the Royal Commission are in.

    Lawyers are not psychologists and psychologists are not lawyers.

    • Robert Guyton 2.1

      Well, that's a tenuous segue, Treetop!

      Drop your questions into Open Mike and you might get a response smiley

      • Treetop 2.1.1

        It appears as though my interpretation of the 'How to Get There' differs from yours.

        I have respect for anyone who appears before the Royal Commission, for seeing it through. As for any harm caused by attending the Royal Commission I want to see anyone appearing who needs support, to get it.

      • Incognito 2.1.2

        I can move it to OM if you like. Your call, Robert.

        • Robert Guyton

          I don't mind at all, Incognito; Treetop thinks it's part of the discussion and I'm no dictator smiley

          In any case, interest in the concept "How to get there" seems to have waned; perhaps we should make today's the last one. I don't mind, natural ebbs and flows and all that.

          • WeTheBleeple

            "How to get there" seems to have waned; perhaps we should make today's the last one…


            Doggedness is also how to get there. No one of us is responsible to prop this up it will wax and wane but there it is: each Sunday, an opportunity to reflect on more than politics. A place for people to propose ideas. Also, in the current circumstances, a shift of focus from politics may be medically beneficial.

            • Robert Guyton

              Great, I'm for doggedness; I just had to check…

              I guess there are days/weeks where ideas are fizzing and others when they're resting. It is good to have a repository for when you need to display one for comment. Mainly today, I'm thinking about trees and which exude friendliness toward humans and which don't and how to determine which is which. Paulonia were a surprise smiley

            • greywarshark

              No keep it up for the reasons that WtB put up. If some people are suffering from arrested motivation it isn't surprising, there have always been more interested in discussing politicians peccadillos? than ideas and practical systems we should be using. And other things crop up and many are off actually carrying out future sustainable projects.

              Besides the environment concerns, what sort of world will we be getting into after CC and Political Chicanery and the Pusillanimouses have done their bit and left a depleted smorgasbord?

              How will we defend ourselves against the cruel and vacuous? It will be essential. Love won't do it, awareness of the situation will be important. If we can think about things now and how to give commitment to good systems, and how to give and earn trust and if we can keep a desire to be kind while still guarding entrance to a well-functioning community group, we will be doing well.

              This goes far beyond raising the question of whether it is appropriate to call ships 'she' as was on radio this morning. It is an interesting old practice, and patronising and owning but miniscule in the larger picture.

              A polar bear entered a town in Russia and was pictured walking past cars, no doubt looking for food and a refuge. A black bear in USA?entered a house, locked itself in a room trashed it, then climbed into a cupboard and went to sleep. We have to work out how we are going to navigate through our future to a safeish place, past pissy people, climate change that won't be pissy when we want it, and bloody technology that is set up to record us wherever and whoever we are and invade our lives like a recent young adult cricketer who instead of practising fast bowling did fast groping of women's groins then racing away fast.

              People who think they live in a wealthy society with opportunities and who have a good living and that it is really good, despite what the news and their eyes tell them, are actually in a deep fugue of a psychiatric kind. (a loss of awareness of one's identity, often coupled with flight from one's usual environment, associated with certain forms of hysteria and epilepsy.) Such thought will be quickly rejected; it is deep stuff and everyday citizens have never put their minds to such analysis.

              Having a place that thinking people can go to see such analysis, and practical measures, and ideas, and so on is a boon. And it fulfils the requirement to pass on experiences and efforts to acquire wisdom that most of our parents, relatives, society have never made part of their duties to their children and the youth of society. We are in a transition like the Roman Catholic church when it brought its teachings into English from Latin.

              The most practical thing that our eminent Lord Rutherford left ordinary NZ citizens is the simple statement he made when he gathered his team around him at the start of careful scientific exploration: "We haven't got the money, so we'll have to think."

              • WeTheBleeple

                "We haven't got the money, so we'll have to think."

                Love that quote.

                I had a sick tree that split in a storm. Big mess.

                What I actually had was landscaping materials, mulch materials, compost and firewood. Laying out and filling gardens was thus free. Winter heating was thus free. I would be burning carbon though so replacement trees had to be found.

                I had a Taro patch getting out of control over an area I wanted as path. I wanted plants but didn't want to spend much. I sold Taro plants on Trademe and bought trees with the money. I had lots of saved veg seeds and trays already – I sowed some seeds and went to the store and got some seedlings as well. In that way the plantings became staggered from the start – for continued harvest. I try remember to put more seeds in regularly, and plant the seedlings in gaps.

                It was a big job converting the front lawn to landscaped looking garden beds. I did a little bit a day and called it exercise. It's good for me. After a few weeks I was fitter and it was 'done'. I contemplated opening a 'gardening gym' and charging hipsters $60 a week to grow my food for me. I still contemplate this. It was just touching on Spring.

                Within a few weeks I started picking greens, within a few months most of my food was from the garden.

                I got the savings from the garden (what I typically spent minus what I spend now) and socked it away. It quickly bought an electric weed whacker and other useful tools. Between the weed whacker and the ever encroaching garden/food forest, the petrol lawnmower was rendered obsolete.

                Plants get traded for more plants, food for different foods. Honey arrives, pickles, preserves.

                As most of my food was now fresh, I required much less from the supermarket. I switched to monthly rather than weekly trips. Caught buses and walked places. The garden was all too easy now, the walking exercise is good for me. My car use became so low $2 a week would be more than I use in petrol.

                The food savings continued. That money would be going to solar but the landlord said no, instead it mounts up for an EV.

                Have I de-carbonated my life? Probably not, I still fizz.

                Have I made a massive change to my consumption – yes.

                Has it shortchanged 'the economy' – absolutely not! I'm just spending differently. Some of my money likely still goes offshore but I try spend local where I can. The less shipped to me, the better for the planet.

                The idea is basic. Get in a position where you spend less than you make – and then use the savings for asset purchases that decrease regular expenses (or simply your carbon footprint, if that's the goal).

                It's that iterative improvement I've posted about before.

                Make one saving but instead of spending it you invest in the next saving. Reduce regular expenses where you can to free up money regularly. It can start to snowball, especially when trees start producing.

                Preserves, nuts, timbers… fuel, food, cash and trade.

                And never forget to treat yourself now and then. Sackcloth and ashes this is not. It's a path to financial and ecological strength that I put together on a sickness benefit while recovering from a nervous breakdown.

                While it's nice to be back on the planet (Jupiter – much gas), I look back with gratitude how the lack of money made me think.

                • greywarshark

                  Thanks WtB. I have a number of places to apply your lore. Ta for that very useful answer and congrats on developing the garden skills and getting over problems together.

          • Treetop

            Does 'How to get There' now depend on the position a person is now in?

            What really is the agenda of the Royal Commission of Inquiry?

            For me it needs to start with, you were taken into state care because the state did not consider you to be safe living in your family.


            The person's response attending the Royal Commission of Inquiry.

            I really want those who were put into state or faith based care who were mistreated to have/get closure. So much of their life has been lived in a shadow and for some a long shadow was cast.

            • Dennis Frank

              Does 'How to get There' now depend on the position a person is now in?

              Yes! Very good question. Robert's framing of it originally was via individualism (the cartoon, and I commented one that tacit assumption last week). Appropriate, inasmuch as we are all on individual development trajectories.

              However, politics is a team sport. Playing our own game only works if we also do synergy with others on our team, to maximise team performance.

              Your perspective on the topic has a focus on those crippled or handicapped by past experience. Providing them with a better future is a valid and traditional political task, but few political activists collaborate on it. Most concerned default to paternalism: nanny state will provide. Some of us who fall into that victim category climbed out of the hole all by ourselves, of course, so we fit the Leunig cartoon prescription on that basis. Nonetheless, we need to learn how to achieve resilience collectively!

              • Treetop

                You get my post.

                Collective responsibility is required to prevent and understand the harm that sexual assault and emotional and physical violence causes and how vulnerable children are and how they are affected when this happens.

                • Dennis Frank

                  Yeah, good to see progress on this stuff in recent years. I never got the sexual assaults, just regular thrashings, no more than five per day though.

                  The effects are lifelong unless one does therapy. I did self-transformation successfully for a long time, until my second wife persuaded me to pay a psychotherapist for anger management. Took a year, but it defused the inner time-bomb. No anger-management problem after age 34 for me.

          • Pingau

            Please don't drop it. I always have a read even though I rarely comment. It is something I look forward to on the Standard after a busy weekend and wotnot.

            • Robert Guyton

              Thanks, Pingau. I too look forward to HTGT, especially when I learn stuff I didn't know; also I'm encouraged by the fluid community that gathers.

          • Mista Smokey

            Robert G to Treetop (2.1):

            "Drop your questions into Open Mike and you might get a response."

            Incognito (2.1.2), I'm for that. To my mind, Treetop's offerings clearly belong in Open Mike, and for sure I'd be happy for you to please make the call to relocate them there for debate. Robert's response when asked was typically gracious.

            This site is a precious thing, a sanctuary after a week of the hard stuff and robust times.

            I love that this site is inspired by Leunig-whimsy and wisdom. The words beneath the cartoon surely are a guide to content:

            "This post is a place for positive discussion of the future. An Open Mike for ideas, solutions and the discussion of the possible."

            I look forward to it, and look back on it sometimes through the week. There have been some wonderful gardening/environment comments, surprises & inspiration of all kinds that cannot be fully digested entirely on the day. (Maybe there's scope for Highlights…?) Some weeks ago, Robert posted the longish poem "Instructions." I didn't know it, nor the author Neil Gaiman, but found it a beaut and printed it off. ("Touch the wooden gate in the wall you never saw before…").

            Around now, I sleep outside, under stars, by a fire, enjoying the easy slow final stages of the journey to Year's End. It connects me to the Celtic forebears, and I love the link with Matariki…and the Maori way, where we now remember those who've passed on since the previous celebration of New Year.

            I love Festivals that relate to our seasons.

            This site here seems to me rather like a Festival. Long may she flow, and we gather here for the good stuff. Inspiration too, I guess. Let's continue to nurture The HTGT Festival.

            May folk here thrive in good energy, this new year and beyond.

            • Treetop

              'This post is a place for positive discussion of the future.'

              I want to see something positive come out of the Royal Commission into the abuse in state care. I want to see those who have been affected able to discuss their experience in a safe invironment and for the government to take responsibility for the harm caused.

              I also feel that the choice to have a child trauma psychologist present, needs to be made available.

            • Incognito

              I wasn’t sure whether Robert asked for it to be moved to OM and when prompted, he declined my ‘assistance’ – I don’t know whether he can moderate this post, which is kind of ‘his baby’. I think it is a little too late now because the whole thread will be moved and I don’t think that is the right thing to do.

              • Treetop

                Either way it is all good with me.

                My favourite saying is six of one and half a dozen of the other.

                This applies to my contribution on this thread.

  3. Ad 3

    Anyone here going to the Forest and Bird conference in Wellington next weekend?

    If anyone has an update on the effort towards a Remarkables National Park I'd be appreciative.

  4. greywarshark 4

    I'm thinking about how we are used to having vehicles and Auckland is practically strangling itself because of its growth, despite having better public transport. (Amazing that they can have a free day to celebrate having public transport to encourage more to use it. Why free? Why not koha? If they can afford to have a free day, they can afford to have free children's travel. That would be a good idea.)

    I think that tolls on main roads are becoming necessary. In Auckland the present system leaves people tied up in traffic so tolls would not be a slow-down that would be so noticeable. In Auckland the feeder system could include a toll system, with a card flashed or cash thrown in to a bag on one lane, and the other being for those with accounts receiving weekly charges. Actually having to pay brings the costs to the front part of the brain.

    The money raised would go to funding a system of 'curlywigs'. (My idea is that the name would be laughed at, or scorned, but be noticed and so thought about.) These would be routes for feeder shuttle buses picking up a group at agreed times and taking them to bus stops. People would register as wanting to use the service and when there was a circular route devised with a minimum number, it would be advertised that there were places on that curlywig so others would come forward to use the service.

    This would be reversed in the evening, or there would be a slimmed down semi-taxi service at discount price.

    During the day the shuttle buses would be doing ordinary taxi service, and so taxi drivers would probably wish to participate and sell their cars and replacing them with shuttles, and they would not have to be pristine as has been the case with taxis competing for airport concessions etc.

    • One Two 4.1

      Tolls and euthanasia, gw.

      Electronic toll systems are an authoritarian dream, where movements are tracked and additional fees collected on roads already paid for by the taxpayers of past, present and future.

      Digital toll systems are hugely expensive to set-up and the private companies involved would require decades long contracts to be in place….to ensure adequate profits.

      Tolls are not going to get people of Auckland anywhere more efficiently…

      It will serve only to penalize those who have no choice but to make the journeys, including the poorest.

      Auckland is an absolute mess with arterial roads perpetually and repeatedly being dug up and closed off, pushing motorists onto highway journeys and vis versa which they may otherwise not need to make.

      Tolls are regressive.

      • greywarshark 4.1.1

        One Two

        Tolls are regressive – so are you. You don't illuminate, just hang a dripping cloud over every idea with no silver linings.

        • One Two

          You suggested tolls. (But my response about the tolls is not really what you've responded to…is it)

          I gave explanations as to why not tolls…self explanatory and has been discussed on this site numerous times over the years…

          You didn't like my comment…and went on the personal attack…

          …Because I'm not in favour of euthenasia and have expressed why, many times…

          Tolls are not what triggered you…

          It's the stead fast desire for euthenasia is how you got there…

          Go find those silver linings…they're everywhere…if you're paying attention…

          • greywarshark

            You don't want solutions One Two. You just like argument and feeling that you must be right. I am not discussing anything with you – it is not worth my time to attempt to find a better way for anything.

    • WeTheBleeple 4.2

      Slightly off topic but might make it back to public transport…

      I only bother to drive in Auckland if I can't carry what I'm picking up. So I have made 6 car journeys this year (supermarket) and spent ~$30 on petrol. I'll sell the car and get an EV soon – as I'll travel a lot more in the near future.

      It is the garden that makes it so I only need a monthly trip to the store. It used to be a weekly thing. And the average monthly grocery bill now? – around $150*

      * does not include milk or the odd pie.

      1/4 the car trips – because of the garden. With the garden as a regular activity also comes a great appreciation of nature; subsequently all trips not needing a car to carry stuff get made on foot or public transport. Gardens change things. Check out that grocery bill! The savings (and a sponsor) will soon put me in an EV, nifty trick huh.

      The warrant/rego and petrol I pay could simply pay for supermarket delivery – for countdown it's $13 a pop for under 200 spend, $9 over. Collaborate with a neighbour and halve it. If they do supermarket delivery with EV's it becomes a valid green option. (it's also worth a few of us writing to them asking if they use EV's so they'll get the idea). The supermarket car parks are vast and typically crammed. The short suburban car journey ALWAYS has heavy traffic at some point.

      The convenience of cars is no longer convenient. We love driving but sitting in traffic cheerfully day after day takes a saint or high quality pharmaceuticals.

      I'd like to see free public transport. The money would come from that we save reducing: road wear, air pollution, water pollution, carbon pollution, trip times for tradies, service people and localised freight like my groceries.

      • One Two 4.2.1

        Lot's of good stuff in there wtb..

        What would you suggest as the first most important few things to learn in order to get onto a sound pathway to 'gardening'…

        Wide open query with hooks…and agree that gardens change things…

        Getting stated gardening will be a game changer … getting started with half a clue would be even better…

        Posts from yourself and Robert have added a wealth of learned info, which is greatly appreciated…

        • Robert Guyton

          WTB may be outside, gardening; in the meantime, because I'm inside, here's my 2 cents-worth: think – what can I offer to the space available to me to garden in and on?

          Can I make this plot more diverse, healthier, more vibrant and resilient and at the same time, offer sanctuary to other life-forms: insects, birds, microscopic creatures?

          The answer is always, yes, and the trick is how to do that in the most effective way.

          Once you've formed a view on that, then you can begin to ensure that you also get a harvest from it for yourself; after all, you can't do good service to the habitat you've volunteered to manage if you're starving or out-of-sorts because of a bad diet. Always bear in mind, "am I exploiting or contributing to, the health of this patch of dirt I chose?"

          Gardening's really easy if you do that smiley

          • One Two

            Cheers Robert.

            So many angles and experienced views to explore and learn from.

            As per my comment to wtb, I'm storing, reading and re-reading the articles and posts from yourselves and others…

            Hopefully in time I can pass on and pass down my own experiences…and perhaps even inspire another being..

            Such as you all have done.

        • WeTheBleeple

          One of the interesting things that have come up on this journey was the importance of kitchen skills. As a student I was so damn poor I kind of had to eat from the garden and didn't really enjoy much of what I was eating. Previous hardship taught me to be grateful I even had a garden, but not for my terrible kitchen skills. Some of the food was nice but you get the point. The moment I started making money I abandoned the 'good eating', and the garden suffered accordingly.

          So this time round I figured I'd better learn to use what I grow. You tube cooking channels, googling lists of what I had to pick in the garden with 'recipe' also in the search – these saw me on my way. Growing, using and storing lots of herbs gave many dishes the zing I was looking for. A mortar and pestle for crushing various other herbs/seeds/spices was also a good move in the right direction.

          Fact is, we have 200 nations in NZ now. How awesome is that for potential recipes, and learning your way around the kitchen. Outstanding! Now for all I know you're a Michelin Star Chef… but a lot of others may not have made this connection yet. Garden to plate – the whole process requires knowledge, not just the garden.

          But it's all fairly basic stuff, and gardeners and cooks are largely generous with recipes, ideas, spices, seeds and plants… So the next step to making it easy is making those connections. Garden clubs, finding cooks you like from similar climate…

          The gardening I expanded on fairly well in the Do Nothing Gardening post I placed here somewhere's…

          With the filing skills of a lemming I can't imagine finding it anytime soon.

          The gist was no till. Lay minerals and manure on a cleared/cut patch you want a garden. Place overlapping card on top to block the light thoroughly and kill off the weeds. Add thick mulch – like 15 cm plus. You can double that if you can get it. A higher bed is less bending, but you do want plants to contact the ground through it. Straw or hay bale, I like woodchip. You can lure a load of woodchip (I get 6 m3 at once) to your place for a box of beer.

          This mulch can be planted in immediately using handfuls of compost and seedlings/seed potatoes etc according to season. Or you can let it overwinter and break down a bit. With trees – cut down through the card and let the rootball interface with the ground underneath. Plant 'fast food' between trees you want – vegetables, herbs, flowers, fungi if you're good!

          Grow trees. Yes they often take years to produce but they get better and better and through time so does your diet and self reliance. Trees also provide mulch, nitrogen, habitat, diversity, and more. In Auckland you can grow temperate, mediterranean and sub tropical systems. Find treegrowers in your area, have conversations, get seed or scions offproven to the locale species and hot tips.

          Don't sweat everything. If critters are eating something let them have it try figure out how to balance it out. Have as much variety as you can get hold of, but always remembering you plan to eat or trade the produce so having some use to you, or supporting the garden ecosystem should be requisite – not biodiversity for the sake of it. That is a bit unclear but just be wary what you’re planting has a why attached.

          Flowers make feral gardens more like a cottage garden. Plus the many benefits (blooms, aesthetics, pollinators, pest control, etc) Log surrounds make deep mulch gardens classy. flowers make it beautiful.

          Post got long, I'll add more detail where it's not clear just advise.

          • One Two

            Thank you for that post wtb.

            Truly informative and brimming with your own experiences…

            Garden to plate…yes absolutely…

            I've saved that post and will search back for other similar posts of yours, roberts and others who can/do…and use them as guidance…

            Thank You.

  5. patricia bremner 5

    Thank you Robert @ 1 for a great post and idea. We are all better for sharing and learning to be truly hospitable.yes

    • Robert Guyton 5.1

      Thanks, Patricia; I think we underestimate the effects and benefits of festivals and there are so many to choose from; the seasonal, "nature" festivals attract me the most, naturally smiley

  6. Treetop 6

    I am already thinking about the 1 July 2019 deadline for floor and ceiling insulation for renters.

    How to Get There?

    Is your flat insulated?

    If not do you think that your landlord is treating you as having low status?

  7. WeTheBleeple 8

    Very nice video from The Disruptors tech series.

    Changes from oil and gas companies. Renewable systems providing excess energy. People looking past their noses. Good stuff.

  8. WeTheBleeple 9

    Have you ever watched a compost pile high in food scraps seemingly disappear in days? That's Hermetia illucens – Black Soldier Fly.

    Here's a local guy starting a business in India farming them.


    I originally came across these insects in a PhD thesis to take the organic wastes of Sao Paulo – an ambitious and fascinating project that was of course turned down (decades before his time).

    Since then bio-pods have become a thing in Australia, a ready made soldier fly farm, and with their high number of home-aquaponic systems they're a great fit.


    The insects do not land on actual food, nor annoy humans, but they devour nasty waste. Fecal matter, old fish, roadkill… converted to high quality protein. And get this, they crawl off to pupate, shedding a skin and self disinfecting in the process. The angle they can climb omits all other species of maggots which are also ultimately consumed. The bugs self harvest crawling down tubes you might place over your pond or into your coop or boringly – a collection bucket. The bucket's probably the best option, while not 'automated' you can distribute the food more evenly so the fish highest up the pecking order don't take em all.

    King Salmon could use these with their fish guts etc to make food for fish. If there was issues with feeding salmonids recycled salmon…? they can sell it to local poultry outfits.

    ~ 1/3 protein by dried weight, a useful part of any system with fish and or poultry.

    • Dennis Frank 9.1

      That's interesting. Reminds me of how folks would put maggots into festering wounds to eat the rotted flesh & consequently help human bodies heal from violence in pre-medicine times. If a need to improve meat production systems becomes evident, this Black Soldier Fly could be employed, eh? Dunno how they currently process waste in a Freezing Works.

      Actually, a memory just came back from long ago when I had a holiday job. Pulling a bunch of sheep intestines through one hand with the other. Pull with the right hand, while clamping the bunch tight with the left. The process was efficient in stripping out the shit, which moved swiftly under your pressure to the exit point. Since each bunch was around 30m long, it took many pulls to work through each bundle. Imagine doing that job all day!

      • WeTheBleeple 9.1.1

        I imagine the large plants have or had many waste streams that are potential income. Fertiliser – blood & bone, leather, meat, pet food, tallow.

        The soldier flies could take anything left after that, if there is any.

        If our meat plants are not using close to everything from a beast now I'd be surprised – they've got enough eggheads in offices to assume they can spot a buck.

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