How very Orwellian

38 comments on “How very Orwellian ”

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1. Tom Jackson 1

   3 October 2014 at 9:49 am

   There are an awful lot of people still involved with the Labour Party who just need to leave. It’s supposed to be a party representing working people, not a party to provide careers to rightish leaning people who don’t like National.
   • tc 1.1

     3 October 2014 at 9:55 am

     Or in Shane Jones case no issues with the nats and happy to grab a nat provided sinecure.
     • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1

       3 October 2014 at 10:32 am

       Considering just how badly Labour did it turned out to be a smart move
       • tc 1.1.1.1

         3 October 2014 at 11:53 am

         SJ’s not one for actual work so opposition would’ve been fine for him.
   • Puckish Rogue 1.2

     3 October 2014 at 10:03 am

     Hey its a broad church remember 🙂
   • Bill 1.3

     3 October 2014 at 10:22 am

     But Tom, your exchange, as so far as it refers to merit, and if it’s an oblique reference to Robertson, is ignoring the “need (for your comment) to be based on performance and attributes which are relevant to their ability to be the Labour Leader.”

     Please wheesht, and allow a spirit of cloying niceness to prevail.
     • Tom Jackson 1.3.1

       3 October 2014 at 10:29 am

       Sorry Bill. I didn’t mean Robertson. I was referring to the M. Quin named in the original post and others like him – in particular those who are frequently “Labour” panelists on TV.

       I don’t really have much of an opinion on the leadership, except that I don’t think Robertson is electable (not because he’s gay: Louisa Wall would IMHO be very electable if she had the experience to be leader).
       • Bill 1.3.1.1

         3 October 2014 at 10:39 am

         Oh, I misconstrued then. I assumed it was a reference to Robertson, among others, and had no problem with it at all. I was only somewhat mischievously measuring it against the ‘requested’ code of conduct sent out to Labour Party members.
   • AmaKiwi 1.4

     3 October 2014 at 11:53 am

     @ Tom Jackson

     The Labour Party “is supposed to be a party representing working people.”

     No, Tom. It’s supposed to win 51% of the seats in Parliament.
     • DoublePlus Good 1.4.1

       3 October 2014 at 1:33 pm

       That’s the desired result, not the reason for standing in the first place. If you achieve the result, but abandon all you the principles you stand for, then what is the point of achieving that result?
       The goal instead must be to convince the New Zealand public that the principles you stand for should be voted for, not to change your principles to suit what the public wants. Have some integrity and conviction.
       • Jones 1.4.1.1

         3 October 2014 at 1:42 pm

         What’s the point…? Power.
       • Murray Olsen 1.4.1.2

         4 October 2014 at 3:07 am

         +1 ++Good
         I agree that the Labour Party is supposed to represent working people. Forming a government (not winning 51% of the seats with MMP) is a means to this end.
2. DoublePlus Good 2

   3 October 2014 at 9:53 am

   I really didn’t expect my user handle to become relevant that quickly…
   • Tom Jackson 2.1

     3 October 2014 at 10:30 am

     Have a Victory Gin to celebrate and then watch Key send our boys to the Malabar front.
3. Bill 3

   3 October 2014 at 10:16 am

   So I read the email and my hackles were immediately raised. Not Orwellian, but it can only give rise to a degree of self censorship.

   So for example (a small one), would ‘beltway’ be considered ‘denigrating or disrespectful’? I guess if one considers it to be, then one ought not to use the term in reference to Grant Robertson, no matter how instructive or illuminating it may be.

   Then we have…

   …it must be conducted in a spirit of respect and with the realisation that many from outside the Party are watching the process. This applies across mainstream and social media, our husting meetings, other Party meetings and the informal networks which we all have. The greater our discipline the stronger our foundation will be to unite behind the leader who is selected.

   There’s so much wrong there. Anyway, ‘be nice’ and when it’s all over, ‘be nice’. Disrespect reality, possibly your thoughts and feelings, and respect some amorphous ‘spirit of respect’, and continue in that vein to achieve ‘disciplined unity’ post selection.

   I can’t be the only one seeing these delusional appeals to discipline as desperate commands to ‘keep your mouth shut’ and advance by the left…left…left, right, left….can I?
4. left for dead 4

   3 October 2014 at 10:27 am

   +100 %,this is playing into MSM hands,at your pearl,Labour…yes i’m a member
5. greywarbler 5

   3 October 2014 at 10:38 am

   Perhaps Bill, Moira Coatsworth should have said ‘Talk among yourselves, discuss the leadership in private but don’t muddy the waters by going public with your opinions, or even your facts if you have any! And not going public includes not twitter, not facebook, not social media of any sort, not leaks to favourites with or without a tea, coffee, alcoholic drink or lemonade, not discussion with some chatty person from other Parties, or your favourite media hack, or someone else in the family with loose lips, or your business buddies, your bank manager.’

   Really spell it out, because the troops have become loose, and that leads Labour to lose. Quite simple. All this bloody democracy encouraging free speech, yet everyone wants to a King or Queen passing uncontrovertible? royal judgments. Instead they are passing bricks that get thrown back at Labour. Stop it, we are getting hurt.

   I did some background checking about this smart mouth Phil Quin last night.
   Here is the Ts link http://thestandard.org.nz/labour-announces-key-decisions-about-leadership-election/#comment-902754
   or go straight to media sources –
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716608
   and
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11266928
   edited
   • Murray Olsen 5.1

     4 October 2014 at 3:14 am

     Yep. Given what they’ve been doing for years, they needed to be told, and in no uncertain terms. We may well have a different government if the Labour caucus had stopped leaking. They didn’t even need to unite behind their leader, they just needed to stop moaning their guts out about every little thing.
6. travellerev 6

   3 October 2014 at 11:24 am

   I just found something very interesting. It turns out that John Key’s PR Guru Mark Textor is working for Fairfax. How much are you willing to bet that this kind of shit comes out of his playbook?
   • Te Reo Putake 6.1

     3 October 2014 at 11:45 am

     Wow! The guy writes an occasional column for an Aussie business paper and you reckon that means he dictates every word that O’Sullivan and Armstrong type. In the real world, they don’t need coaching. They already know how to earn their paychecks.
7. travellerev 7

   3 October 2014 at 11:52 am

   Guys like Mark Textor don’ t write the odd columns. Not when they are strategists running election campaigns of the Tories in two or three of the five eye countries. here is what is happening in Germany. You think that doesn’t happen here?
8. Tracey 8

   3 October 2014 at 11:54 am

   Labour described as Orwellian…

   GCSB
   illegal spying on citizens
   skycity
   new IT surveillance in auckland
   super city
   keys lies
   etc etc

   oh the irony

   ““connotes an attitude and a brutal policy of draconian control by propaganda,

   surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past”.
   • bearded git 8.1

     3 October 2014 at 12:07 pm

     +1 tracey. The same thoughts were going through my head. We all knew the Herald is one-eyed but now that it regularly turns stories through 180% to suit it’s masters it is becoming ridiculous.
9. Tanz 9

   3 October 2014 at 12:31 pm

   course, Labour and its antics are never at fault……..Key is starting to look like a real hero in comparison. This site defends Lab.no matter what!!! Labour could look graceful, instead there is open in-fighting and name calling. I am bailing to Colin’s camp.
   • Anne 9.1

     3 October 2014 at 12:51 pm

     Good for you mate, and don’t forget to close the door behind you and leave the key under the mat. Ta.
   • KJT 9.2

     3 October 2014 at 1:03 pm

     Well, I for one have written posts on this site that are rather scathing about Labour as it is currently.

     Though, I reckon no matter how disorganised the “left” is, it is a huge improvement on the “right” which is competently leading all the Lemmings to their fate..

     The diversity of ideas and approaches on the left is preferable to everyone headed over National’s inevitable cliff, together.

     Haven’t noticed any censorship.

     I do get requests, not always polite ones, to be “nice” at times, from commenter’s, which I consider on their merits.

     This site, is kindly provided by Iprent and associates as a place for voices of the, so called, “left”, and the discussion of ideas. . Though it is depressing that in New Zealand, policies which look after the sick, the aged, children and those without jobs, polices which were considered part of how we are, even by conservatives leaning towards the right, are now said to be “left wing”.
     I notice most opposing comments, even right wing ones, are published, unless they break the site policy..
   • Jones 9.3

     3 October 2014 at 1:46 pm

     I disagree. In the short time I have been here, I think this site has been quite critical of Labour… and, from my perspective, deservingly so.
10. Skinny 10

    3 October 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Regrettably I am unable to comment on this site or any other blog post, social media post relating to the Labour Party. However I can comment on topics of rugby, over paid CEO’s and the rock star economy. Though I’ve all ready heard Mike Williams ‘blinked opinion and no doubt the usual dross will be pumped out on The Nation, Q & A by Pagani, Mahuta-Coyle.

    Be interesting to see just what Stu Nash has to say on Plunket’s Prime Time tonight. Ok go ahead Stu make someone’s day!
    • lprent 10.1

      3 October 2014 at 12:58 pm

      Is he bringing his pet bus?
11. Marksman33 11

    3 October 2014 at 12:49 pm

    @ bearded git, my dear old dad worked for the NZ Herald for 38 years and he can attest to the fact that it was quite common for the editor, the subs and certain other editorial staff to have regular meetings whenever any of their big advertisers had adverse news stories about to break. The old ” we don’t want our advertisers too grumpy with us ” was the order of the day. And this going back to the early 60s. Nothing has changed except no need to be subtle anymore.
12. coaster 12

    3 October 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Personally I didnt see anything wrong with email from moira coatsworth.
13. ianmac 13

    3 October 2014 at 1:20 pm

    National trumpeting their increased majority isn’t true. According to Horizon:
    Preliminary election results, before counting of 254,630 special votes, show National won 1,010,464 votes compared with 1,058,636 at the 2011 election, a reduction of 48,172 or 4.5%. (Special votes could change this.)
    I know that it is the percentage that counts in forming the Government but National are not all that clever are they?
    • Jones 13.1

      3 October 2014 at 1:50 pm

      Detail… schmetail… National are never ones to let the facts get in the way. It’s all about perception… clever or not, they know exactly what they’re doing.
      • Foreign waka 13.1.1

        3 October 2014 at 7:43 pm

        And this could be called Orwellian…
    • Peter Matthews 13.2

      3 October 2014 at 1:56 pm

      But when comparing the 2014 provisional result with the 2011 provisional result, according to this:

      http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/parl-support/research-papers/00PLLawRP11041/the-2011-general-election-provisional-results

      the national party had a provisional result of 957,769. So at this stage (before special votes) they have achieved an increase in support. However, I do agree this may change after the specials have been counted.
      • ianmac 13.2.1

        3 October 2014 at 3:43 pm

        Thanks Peter. Something doesn’t add up. I think Horizon must have compared final result for National 2011 with Provisional 2014. Well, final result tomorrow when Specials will be announced.
14. red blooded 14

    3 October 2014 at 2:29 pm

    Any responsible president would have sent out a similar message. In fact, I tried to make a similar pint in the discussion line that was withdrawn yesterday. Discuss, yes: vilify and smear, no.

    All parties have similar provisions about how members should discuss party matters in the public arena. That includes the NACTs.
15. adam 15

    4 October 2014 at 12:50 am

    So it is true – being polite, is just another thing that the right can beat up the left for being.

    Sad, sad, day.

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