Howzat?

Written By: - Date published: 12:07 pm, June 28th, 2011 - 42 comments
Categories: tourism - Tags:

OK. Bit of a cheat. The May figures were out yesterday. But the trend is up for other months. Real point is tourists from India are just 1% of the total. If best Key can promise for the economy is an increase in a tiny portion of tourism, some time in the future, when a plane that isn’t even operational might start flying here direct from Mumbai, we’re in trouble.

42 comments on “Howzat? ”

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  1. Craig Glen Eden 1
    28 June 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Key is so wet its ridiculous.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1
      28 June 2011 at 12:35 pm

      Unfortunately its the dry combustible Tories who are taking over if the NATs get back in.

  2. Jim Nald 2
    28 June 2011 at 12:29 pm

    The 1% Indian of the total visitors are so immensely excited at prospect of testing out the cycleway. Can’t wait to get on the plane to get on the bike.

    • ianupnorth 2.1
      28 June 2011 at 2:05 pm

      Of course they would be your average call centre workers wouldn’t they? Even the higher paid of those earns 250K rupees per annum (NZ$6000), so they are easily going to be able to afford the NZ$2K fare.
       
      No those who key wants to come are the elite, the money men just like him.
       
      BTW, he shows a complete ignorance of aviation too; there are already aircraft capable of doing India to NZ non-stop, but there will never be the volume to fill a once weekly service, let alone anything else; and the Europeans have lots of nice stopovers already. Key, you’re dreamin!

  3. g_man 3
    28 June 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Okay. Now how about posting the data on what we export to India? Exports were worth NZ$917 million for the year ending March 2011, nearly double our exports two years ago. India is now New Zealand’s 7th largest market.

    If you think it’s such a waste of time John Key going there, why did Helen Clark visit there in 2004? Or Michael Cullen in 2007? Or Phil Goff in 2001, 2005 and 2007?

    • Colonial Viper 3.1
      28 June 2011 at 12:38 pm

      Oh you must be mistaken.

      The idea is not that it is a waste of time for the NZ PM to go to India.

      It is that he is wasting his time while over there. Slightly different you see.

      BTW English and Key did nothing to increase trade with India (except take credit for it).

      • Blue 3.1.1
        28 June 2011 at 12:45 pm

        “BTW English and Key did nothing to increase trade with India (except take credit for it).” any evidence empirical or otherwise to substantiate this? Or are you just venting again?

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1
          28 June 2011 at 1:14 pm

          Not my job to be your researcher.

          • Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.1.1.1.1
            28 June 2011 at 1:19 pm

            But you said:

            BTW English and Key did nothing to increase trade with India (except take credit for it).

            If you are alleging something, it is for you to prove, not everyone else to disprove.

            [lprent: Looks like you’re after a ruling.

            Depends on if he stated it as being a fact. Since he didn’t state it was a fact then the moderation default is that it is opinion.

            You can try to get him to ‘prove’ it – which I suspect is impossible because there is unlikely to be a causal link. But it isn’t something that is moderated. ]

            • wtl 3.1.1.1.1.1
              28 June 2011 at 1:26 pm

              You can’t prove the absence of something.
              e.g Does Santa Claus exist? If not, can you prove it?

              • Deadly_NZ …
                29 June 2011 at 1:48 am

                No but Steven Fleming does exist and he is making your PM look like the wanna be that he is. Running round after Steven tongue hanging out, you can almost hear him pant.

            • Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.1.1.1.1.2
              28 June 2011 at 3:36 pm

              Looks like you’re after a ruling.

              No.

              Bloody socialists.

            • weka 3.1.1.1.1.3
              28 June 2011 at 5:33 pm

              “BTW English and Key did nothing to increase trade with India (except take credit for it).”


              What would make that sentence a statement of fact if it’s not already? Not trying to be smart, just curious.

    • The Voice of Reason 3.2
      28 June 2011 at 1:11 pm

      You left out all of Richard Worth’s visits, g man. There were some terrific results from those trips. For him, anyway.

  4. g_man 4
    28 June 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Ummm, what exactly am I mistaken about?

    I didn’t say that John Key did anything to increase trade with India. My point is that Zetetic is being slightly selective with the story, by highlighting one point and not mentioning this rather important point.

    And I know you guys and gals just hate it when RWNJs are selective with their quotes 🙂

    • felix 4.1
      28 June 2011 at 1:04 pm

      You said “If you think it’s such a waste of time John Key going there”

      … to which CV replied you must be mistaken.

      Is that simple enough or do you need more help?

  5. nadis 5
    28 June 2011 at 1:25 pm

    I understand your stated caveats but this is the most fantastic example of drawing a misleading graph by scale abuse that I have seen in ages.

    [lprent: I suspect that you merely have a problem with reading the post. You appear to have missed the point of it which is in the words (you know those squiggly markings beneath the pretty picture).

    Don’t waste my moderating time with idiot faux outrage causing me to read the post. I really don’t have time to deal with you wanking here. ]

    • wtl 5.1
      28 June 2011 at 2:03 pm

      I understand your stated caveats

      Nope, you don’t. It was INTENTIONALLY misleading. Zetetic admittedly picked data points that ensured the trend was down. And you are nitpicking about this axis?

      Of course the whole point of the post was nothing to do with the trend of the graph. But I guess that just flew straight over your head.

      • g_man 5.1.1
        28 June 2011 at 2:22 pm

        I agree.

        There is little point nit-picking about a graph, when the entire post is claiming that the “best Key can promise for the economy is an increase in a tiny portion of tourism”. And totally ignoring the NZ$917 million export market for the year ending March 2011, and the hoped-for FTA which could potentially see this increase hugely, benefiting our coal, dairy products, fruit, machinery, log exports, wood pulp, hides and skins industries.

        I’m sure this is an oversight, because as I said earlier, I know people here just hate it when RWNJs are selective with their quotes 🙂

        • wtl 5.1.1.1
          28 June 2011 at 2:45 pm

          Yes, you are very clever. You known that export market to India for the year ending March 2011 is NZ$917 million – you have repeated it twice already!

          But, you are still missing the point. Those here do not appear to be disputing that India is an important trading partner of NZ, but merely pointing out Key doesn’t seem to be doing much apart from having photo ops and promising some measly increases in tourism earnings.

          • g_man 5.1.1.1.1
            28 June 2011 at 3:16 pm

            No, you’re the one missing the point.

            You say that people here are “merely pointing out Key doesn’t seem to be doing much apart from having photo ops and promising some measly increases in tourism earnings.”

            Well, John Key is doing far more than that – for example, having discussions with the Indian Prime Minister (during which a multi-billion dollar free trade agreement is expected to dominate discussions), and also talking about educational ties. India is a huge market, and increasing our exports and other ties to India has got to be good for our economy.

            But it seems that most people here are just picking up on one minor point and blowing it out of proportion. Time and again we have seen commmenters here blow RWNJs out of the water for being selective with their data or quotes, or picking up on trivial points which are unimportant.

            Pot, meet kettle.

            • wtl 5.1.1.1.1.1
              28 June 2011 at 3:48 pm

              Well, John Key is doing far more than that – for example, having discussions with the Indian Prime Minister (during which a multi-billion dollar free trade agreement is expected to dominate discussions), and also talking about educational ties. India is a huge market, and increasing our exports and other ties to India has got to be good for our economy.

              Yay! You finally responded with an ACTUAL ARGUMENT! Okay, Key is obviously doing some things worthwhile in India. After all, it would be impossible for a visiting PM not to. But is he making the most of the trip to achieve a benefit for NZ? No, I don’t think he is. Why? Well one example is that there appears to be a fixation with photo ops:

              http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5199988/Indians-flock-to-Fleming-during-Key-visit
              http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5198459/John-Key-and-wife-visit-Taj-Mahal

              The photo ops do nothing to benefit NZ. If Key was serious about doing something useful, there would be less fluff and more actual work. Instead he appears to be simply be using the opportunity to maintain his celebrity status in NZ.

              • Jim Nald …
                28 June 2011 at 3:59 pm

                For starters, release the speeches (if any?), in full, he has given or will deliver at meetings and events in India.
                So far, what is being reported are his responses on Pike River and Will & Kate.

              • g_man …
                28 June 2011 at 4:12 pm

                @ wtl:

                “Yay! You finally responded with an ACTUAL ARGUMENT!”

                What a shame you haven’t. All you’ve done is provide two links to “prove” that John Key has a fixation with photo ops. Hey, I can do that:

                http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0410/S00262.htm

                One link, but more photos, so that counts for more 🙂

                By the way, in this story, she apparently “presented mementos to Bollywood heartthrob Hrithik Roshan, his father and director Rakesh Roshan and movie star Amisha Patel at a function for their contribution to popularising New Zealand as a destination for Indian movies during her visit to Bombay.”

                So to paraphrase Zetetic: “If the best Clark could promise for the economy was an increase in a tiny portion of tourism, some time in the future, when a plane that isn’t even operational might start flying here direct from Mumbai, we’re in trouble”.

                You questioned if John Key is making the most of the trip to achieve a benefit for NZ? I would dare to suggest, he’s probably making as much of the trip as Helen Clark did when she met a real genuine Bollywood heart-throb …

                • Colonial Viper …
                  28 June 2011 at 4:17 pm

                  These photo-ops are KY running away from the mess that Christchurch, CERRA and the EQC are in.

                  Being here might entail some real work at a time of national emergency.

                  • g_man …
                    28 June 2011 at 4:34 pm

                    Oh, I see. So your ideal PM never leaves the country if there are any problems occurring at home? Because they don’t have any staff or other ministers who they can leave in charge of thing, so hence the PM has to micro-manage absolutely everything.

                    And I guess it’s not as if the PM can stay in touch with his people in NZ, because obviously India doesn’t have telephones?

                    Thank you for explaining that…

                • wtl …
                  28 June 2011 at 4:30 pm

                  LOL, are you serious? You really are just taking the piss right?

                  You post an press release from some organisation that I’ve never heard of and claim that Clark has lots of photo ops when all the pictures are of her at official functions/meeting dignitaries?

                  And you talk about the Bollywood angle but skip this:

                  Clark, who arrived on Sunday, visited India’s technology hub Bangalore and financial capital Bombay where she sought to promote collaborations between companies in the two countries on new products and services.

                  Yes, sure she presented a momento to some movie star. But what proportion of her time was spent doing such trivial things? If the photos are an indication, I’d suggest a very small proportion.

                  Anyway, this is all a distraction. The argument isn’t about what Clark did or didn’t do, but what Key is doing. You may be happy with Key spending most of his time on photo ops, I am not. (For the record, if Clark did the same, I wouldn’t be happy either).

                  • g_man …
                    28 June 2011 at 4:40 pm

                    You’ve never heard of Scoop? Maybe you should broaden your horizons somewhat …

                    Um, a photo op is a photo op. Whether its at an official meeting or not. In fact you could argue that these photos are worth far more to someone who wants the world to see how serious a politician she is, and how she can mix it up on the world stage (*cough* Are you watching me, Ban Ki-moon? *cough*)

                    And yes, you’re absolutely right, I did indeed skip some other snippets. Just like Zetetic did with the whole article. Whih was my point right at the beginning.

                    • wtl …
                      28 June 2011 at 4:48 pm

                      Seriously, you are far too much fun!

                      To clarify my first point: Yes, it is published on Scoop, but the original source is “Rohit Kumar – Happy, Editor, Bharat-Darshan”, which is the organisation I have not heard off. On clicking on the link at the end it appears to be an Indian language news service in NZ. It may have its own following, but I freely admit I had no heard of it before.

                      Also re: cherrypicking, please post a quote from the Zetetic link that states that Key is negotiating a trade agreement or something similar (no, repeating that NZ exports $917 million to India doesn’t count unless it says Key is doing something to increase this).

                      As for the rest of your comment, others can read it and judge it for themselves 🙂

                    • g_man …
                      28 June 2011 at 6:38 pm

                      @ wtl 4:48…

                      I’m glad I’m providing you with fun. But all good things must come to an end, and this is mine …

                      You haven’t really clarified your first point. You seem to be saying that becuase you haven’t heard of this particular source, therefore it doesn’t count?! WTF!

                      You also haven’t responded to the statement that I made; namely, that a photo op is a photo op, whether its at an official meeting or not.

                      And now comes the bit that I’m still scratching my head about …

                      You said “Also re: cherrypicking, please post a quote from the Zetetic link that states that Key is negotiating a trade agreement or something similar”

                      Ummm … how do I explain this? My WHOLE POINT was that Zetetic DIDN’T state that Key is negotiating a trade agreement”. I CAN’T post a link, because there isn’t one, WHICH WAS MY POINT!

                      Are you the one taking the piss now?!

    • Blighty 5.2
      28 June 2011 at 2:14 pm

      enter those numbers in excel and make it draw a graph. Bet it doesn’t include zero on the axis. Ranges should be set to show change between data points, unless one is also trying to show magnitude vs zero.

      For example, if you were graphing changes in the sun’s temperature associated with sun-spots, you wouldn’t have that axis start at zero because the freezing temperature of water isn’t relevant to the exercise.

      Likewise, the number of tourists coming from India in a given month is unlikely to ever be zero and you’re looking at their size relative to each other, not their absolute size. So, choose a range that incorporates all your values but not beyond them.

      • Policywonk 5.2.1
        28 June 2011 at 3:30 pm

        Statistically speaking that is a very poor approach to data analysis. It’s colloquially known as the “gee whizz” approach, or lying using data

  6. Tigger 6
    28 June 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Next up Key promises that Martians will visit once space commuting becomes commonplace.

    • ianupnorth 6.1
      28 June 2011 at 1:58 pm

      If only he could be sent there on a fact finding mission! he’d end up smiling and waving with some astronauts.

  7. ZeeBop 7
    28 June 2011 at 2:38 pm

    On tourism. A tourist would be well advised to buy a cheap mobile phone, to take photos of people, cars and get access to police and other free phone services. They however might not to be able to afford noise control if there is excessive noise over night, since most councils don’t provide free phone numbers. But hey, we want them here but don’t care about them having a good nights sleep when they have run out of prepay phoning home.

  8. vidiot 8
    28 June 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Do you have any idea how hard it is for an Indian to get a tourist visa to visit NZ ?

    If Key wants to encourage more tourists from the sub-continent, change the visa requirements – they appear to have been written under the assertion that once in NZ, most will try & drive a cab.

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