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Hypocrisy in the House: GCSB Bill

Written By: - Date published: 10:11 am, August 7th, 2013 - 46 comments
Categories: accountability, capitalism, david cunliffe, democracy under attack, john banks, john key, labour, national, peter dunne, slippery, Spying, telecommunications, united future, winston peters - Tags:

Last night the filibster of the Government Communications Security Bureau and Related Legislation Amendment Bill – Committee Stage – Part 1, delayed the passing of the Third reading until at least 20 August.  Last night’s speeches put the hypocrisy of John Key and Peter Dunne under the spotlight.

Phil Goff delivered a powerful speech that began by quoting Dunne’s lack of trustworthiness, when 3  weeks ago on RNZ, Dunne said:

Under no circumstances should the GCSB be able to spy on New Zealanders.

According to Goff Dunne said the GCSB should  not be able to spy on new Zealanders even with a warrant.  When asked why he now has totally contradicted that position in supporting the Bill, he says, as paraphrased by Goff,

“Willing buyer, willing seller”.

And Dunne’s hypocrisy is further exposed by his response to protesters who have been protesting outside his home over the last few days.

Mr Dunne, who was not home at the time of the protest, said the “hardcore group” were at his house with a loudhailer on Sunday, past 11pm on Monday night, and also yesterday morning at 7am.

He was concerned his wife and neighbours were being intimidated by the group, whom he said were “irresponsible scum”.

“They are the lowest form of life imaginable. If they think they are going to persuade anyone to their point of view with these tactics, they’re frankly deluded.”

However, as one of the protesters aptly argues:

Protester Ariana Paretutanganui-Tamati said they were at Mr Dunne’s home “to give him a taste of what it feels like to have your privacy intruded on”.

In his speech, Goff goes on to outline how the Bill will pass because of support of 2 disgraced members of parliament: Dunne and Banks.   Goff refers to the NZ Law society that argues against the extension of the security agencies’ power to spy on NZers, with a particularly strong criticism of the government’s failure to give any substantial reasons for this extension.

Goff argued for a full independent inquiry. He makes the further point that the Bill shouldn’t be passed under urgency, but, if it is, at least give it a sunset clause.  If the the GCSB and related Bills broaden powers to spy on NZers at least justify it.

Cunliffe began his speech by saying that Labour will set up a full and independent review, then,

repeal the Bill in its current form and replace it with new provisions that get the balance right between privacy, constitutionality and the rule of law.

Cunliffe highlighted the way Key is attempting to divert attention from his dodgy GCSB Bill.  Cunliffe said that Friday’s dump of emails related to the Dunne-Vance surveillance, occurred shortly after government was notified (around midday) of the Fonterra contamination issue.

Cunliffe repeats the line:

“The response to illegal speeding is not to raise the speed limit”

He argues that New Zealand needs to have capabilities to defend self against foreign cyber attacks. However, such capabilities should not be employed against New Zealanders except in the most unusual and exceptional circumstances.  This should be done with a judge’s warrant, based on an independent and “substantially evident threshold of proof”. The warrant process needs to be exceptional and thorough and should never become routine.

 … the warrant process must protect our citizens from arbitrary mass surveillance whether performed directly by the NZ GCSB or indirectly by the access of information sourced from other partner countries.

Winston Peters speech further highlights the hypocrisy of John Key and his two hangers on, John Banks and Peter Dunne.

Peters began by pointing out how John Key spoke about extremely worrying threats of terrorism, but was not prepared to turn up to speak on this Bill that is in his name.

Peters stated that the Bill has not included the safeguards NZ First wanted for them to support the Bill. He then moved to talking about a bigger picture in which Key has said things that are “untrue”.

There was no controversy over NZ security under previous governments, both National and Labour led. It wasn’t until John Key came along that it became a big issue.  Peters referred back to the whole Dotcom saga. Key has not said explicitly that he was in no way involved in the KDC affair, and this is on top of the related John Banks’ memory lapses.

Peters then repeated a long quote from a 2007 speech, without revealing who said it, until the end.  but it wasn’t hard to guess who made such a speech, in defense of democracy:

Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe you get the democracy you are prepared to stand up for. Here in New Zealand we often take our democratic freedoms for granted. We think they will always be there. We have a Bill of Rights which is supposed to protect our right to freedom of expression. What on Earth could go wrong?

I have a different view. I believe what Thomas Jefferson said, that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

I won’t include the full quote as it can be found here, and just shows how John Key has few consistent principles.  Peters explained it as the Nats selling off their ideals as well as their assets.

Peters also highlights a further bit of Dunne hypocrisy with this Dunne quote from 11 June:

I think we start down a very slippery slope. And I for one, having had a long interest in protecting personal privacy am not prepared to take that step.

John Key is a lost cause. But what will it take to Peter Dunne shed his hypocrisy and develop a few principles in support of democracy, freedom of expression and rights to privacy?

Kill the Bill!

46 comments on “Hypocrisy in the House: GCSB Bill”

  1. Craig Glen viper 1

    What does Key have over Dunn it must be pretty serious!

    • AmaKiwi 1.1

      + 1

    • blue leopard 1.2

      @ Craig Glen Viper

      Its funny because everyone has been speculating over the question you raise, however to me, it is obvious that Dunne’s career was being sabotaged when he was speaking against this bill.

      It may seem like a career is less important than what is going on, however the thing people don’t seem to ‘get’ is that work is livelihood and attacking someone’s livelihood is attacking their life.

      This is also the case with governments not ensuring 100% employment and placing other things as more important. And I’m guessing this is the case with Dunne’s mealy mouthed behaviour.

      This is what I believe Key has over Dunne (and probably what Key’s master’s have over him although it appears he is too lacking in conscience to even consider speaking out on a matter on principle.)

      • muzza 1.2.1

        Hi BL,

        Agree with what you say about the livelihood, except that for Dunne, he has gold plated state funded pension, worth [loads per year], along with all the perks, until the day he leaves this world. So in this instance, I don’t see this is a factor.

        It should be very clear by now, that there are only a few options, could be a bit of a combo.

        1: NZ is having a gun put to its head!

        2: MP’s, most of them are being blackmailed, over some hidious acts!

        3: MP’s are agents, acting willingly in their roles against this country!

        Believe nothing Goff says, his actions gave him away, decades back!

        • blue leopard 1.2.1.1

          @ Muzza
          Ah re gold plated pension – good point.

          I guess, then, if it was anywhere along the lines I was thinking it would have to be the loss of status that is Dunne’s point of weakness for manipulation.

          Re your other points I definitely feel there is a proverbial gun being pointed at those in NZ government from outside this country and perhaps inside too (big money interests).

          Probably only has to be a toy gun with those currently in power though.

          • muzza 1.2.1.1.1

            There has been so much speculation over many decades, people used to call conspiracy theories, and such like, when references were made against certain so called NZ’ers, be they political, business or sometimes both, and who they were actually working for.

            I guess the point is, it makes no difference who they are working for, what is important to understand, is that they are actively working against this country, and the people in it, almost 100% of them.

            What I also don’t quite have squared up in my own mind, is the what do these people believe they can do to escape what they have done, because there is no such thing as getting away with it, it will land at your door step, sooner or later!

            There has to be something which is physically preventing these people from speaking out, from acting out, from voting against such destructive legislation, from supporting such destructive actions, from acting in financially and morally corrupt fashion, it must be something so hideous which is being held over them.

            I lean towards the blackmail/agent options, because the gun to head, unless we are to believe that NZ is going to be destroyed by an act of war, ok, we’re dead so what, or destroyed financially, which is happening anyway, and besides we could as a sovereign nation, after much pain, like Iceland, remediate that situation for the better.

            Unless its gun to head of the MP’s, their families/friends/pets kind of thing, but still, other than some protraction in the timeline, on current track, NZ is history, which means so are you (MP etc), family/friends/pets, eventually!

            Blackmail is a traditional favorite, which would make the coercion to be hideous acts, the worst you could imagine, or why would you sell out a entire country, for anything less than that, because again, on current track, NZ is history, which means so are you (MP etc), family/friends/pets, eventually!

            You have to feel very secure in what you’re doing to act in the way these people are, and by that I mean almost all of them!

            It just does not make any sense, to me!

            • blue leopard 1.2.1.1.1.1

              @ Muzza

              My thoughts:

              What I also don’t quite have squared up in my own mind, is the what do these people believe they can do to escape what they have done, because there is no such thing as getting away with it, it will land at your door step, sooner or later!

              I think rather a lot of people have been ‘getting away with it’, for rather a long time. Just look at the fraud that has been committed across the board re the GFC. Have there been vast swathes of convictions…anyone?

              “There has to be something which is physically preventing these people from speaking out, from acting out, from voting against such destructive legislation, from supporting such destructive actions, from acting in financially and morally corrupt fashion, it must be something so hideous which is being held over them.

              Fear is a powerful agent. People who are the most motivated to accumulate money and status are probably more prone to being pushed by fear than the ordinary person. They have a lot more to lose for a start. And perhaps the whole drive to accumulate vastly more than is really necessary to live on, is based on strong level of insecurity and fear from the outset. How many ‘success’ stories have you heard of the very very wealthy that have started from a place of dire poverty? I’ve heard of quite a lot of these.

              The manipulation/hypnotism techniques that are evident are also powerful. These techniques use good qualities that people require to stay at least half-sane. These good qualities are taken and used against people.

              E.g. Trust. We trust a lot of things. We trust that when driving down the road a car isn’t going to drive into us. We trust that people are basically good. We have to trust. If we didn’t we’d go stark raving bonkers. Because of this trust, where a bad element exists, if someone basically hasn’t got good motivation, it takes a very long time for an individual to accept this is the case; let alone large groups of people. To shift from trusting to questioning to saying “actually, no this isn’t good enough” therefore, is taking a long time.

              It is only when large numbers of people make this shift will there be changes to this corrupt system we have.

        • Rhinocrates 1.2.1.2

          Yes, knowing what Goff has done in the past, I really can’t think of him as a sincere champion of free speech and privacy. Quite the contrary in fact!

          I find his current sanctimony nauseating.

    • Rhinocrates 1.3

      +2 It’s really odd to see Dunne bawling, rolling around and beating his fists against the carpet about the breaches of his own privacy while pledging his support for this totalitarian bill.

      What’s Key got? A control on his supply of hair gel? Photos of him with a goat doing something with some raspberry jam and an eggbeater?

      I rather wonder – in a very abstract sense, because thinking too closely leads to madness – just what must be running through Dunne’s imitation of a mind.

      Is he feeling some simulacrum of shame, outrage, pain… fear?

      Then again, who cares…

      • lprent 1.3.1

        You don’t have to convince Dunne. Word is that all you have to do is to convince the parasite on top….

        I’m not looking forward to the day that it’s host is of no further use and it has to find a new one.

        But it doesn’t have to look further than the bright pate that is Pete George. Looks like the *right* candidate 😈

        • Colonial Viper 1.3.1.1

          “I’m not looking forward to the day that it’s host is of no further use and it has to find a new one.”

          Gosh darn it, is that an actual Babylon 5 reference???

          • lprent 1.3.1.1.1

            The regent or Mollari? Nope.

            Reference is to a short story by Sturgeon? about an immortal parasite and was triggered by a memory of a photoshopped image we have around here somewhere of Dunne with a american possum on his head.

            That hair is pretty damn spectacular, and deserves a life of its own 🙂

  2. BLiP 2

    Fine words, and what a neat expression to define John Key’s “management” of this entire issue, from Warner Bros to Ian Fletcher, from Kim Dotcom from Jon Stephenson, and back again . . .

    spies, lies and alibis

    . . . he really is the master of the House at the moment. Anyone catch Winstone’s “Point of Order” yesterday at the end of Question 6? Going by some of his asides in the video above, a sign of things to come, methinks.

  3. vto 3

    some 2c says that the protestors peering over Dunne’s fence at home is spot on.

    Feel it Dunne, feel it.

  4. wyndham 4

    CGv.

    I think you’re right. ‘Willing buyer. Willing seller’. Key knows what was in the Dunne / Vance emails ?

    Dunne is no better than the people he calls ‘irresponsible scum’. What gives him the right to call anyone scum ?

  5. yeshe 5

    Winston’s comments about Chris Finlayson are fascinating — seems to promise there are revelations yet to come about his activities re KDC. Winston at his best.

    • Murray Olsen 5.1

      Winston always reminds me of those Japanese steak knife advertisements – but wait, there’s more!! The more we wait for is hardly ever what we might have hoped for, but maybe this time will be different.

  6. blue leopard 7

    I wish to publicly thank the people protesting outside Mr Dunne’s house.

    What a despicable thing for Mr Dunne to say about them. They are making efforts to protect all New Zealanders’ democratic rights; these are extremely important principles. He is in a position to ensure democratic principles are upheld and he is not doing so, despite getting a good income from New Zealanders to do so. This makes him irresponsible and scum; not those who are protesting this anti-democratic turn NZ politicians have taken.

    To the protesters, thank you, thank you, thank you.

  7. yeshe 8

    Key is sucking so much air in his ‘tell’ in the House today .. never heard so much of it from him before …

    And great post Blue Leopard.

    • blue leopard 8.1

      Thanks Yeshe,

      Key’s hissing is such a good reminder to people what a ‘snake’ he is; I really am surprised he hasn’t been told to cut it out. Perhaps has and he can’t – perhaps, for him, it is something like a micro-facial expression over which he has no control.

      • yeshe 8.1.1

        Yes, like that .. I don’t think he can control it which is quite fun !!

        Also Karol .. make sure you see Winston Peters from the House today as questions finished .. he lays into Key for accessing his personal phone records in the Bradley Ambrose fiasco .. about 2.52 it begins I think … worth posting maybe .. also Winston seemed obsessed by the time on his watch ?

        • Veutoviper 8.1.1.1

          Key’s hissing – and slurring – was very noticable. And his discomfort att Peters’ questions to him.

          BUT Peters’ claims in the first speech of the General Debate are astonishing . BLiP has a comment up on Open Mike. Not yet on Stuff etc but presume Peters may be giving a press interview ….

          • karol 8.1.1.1.1

            Audrey Young has an article on it on the NZ Herald. Form her account it is looking like an unproved allegation at the moment, that Key/Eagleson were involved in accessing Peter’s phone record.

            Mr Peters told Parliament this afternoon that in the past 24 hours, he had learned that police briefing notes on the case contained references to seizing his telephone records.

            The same files also said that Mr Key’s chief of Staff, Wayne Eagleson, had been ”kept in the loop” during the investigation.

            “There is information in a police file that says police would have to take Winston Peters’ phone records to lay charges and make a case against Bradley Ambrose,” Mr Peters said.

            “My telephone records were going to be seized in an operation that was sparked by the prime minister’s office and monitored by the Prime Minister’s office.

            “This is not Zimbabwe. This is New Zealand.
            […]
            This was not a matter of national security – or even a matter of life and death.

            “It was about a petulant prime minister trying to save his face and his backside.

            “Today I am asking the Prime Minister and the police to come clean and produce all the documents relating to Winston Peters and the teacup tape investigation.”

            Peters’ press release on it here.

          • yeshe 8.1.1.1.2

            Yes, amazing claims .. still no footage up as yet though … must read BLip .. I watched it live and could scarcely believe it .. fun that John Bercow, Speaker of Westminster was there for it all sitting very close to David Carter !! Great day to expose how we are being governed right now.

            • Veutoviper 8.1.1.1.2.1

              Here is the video of Peters’ speech in the General Debate, now up.

              http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/20319

              But we have two threads running on this one here and one on Open Mike.

              Stuff also have an article up, and RNZ covered it on the 4pm news and I put links on OM.

              As no doubt this will be all over Checkpoint and the TV news, perhaps we could amalgamate the two threads?

              EDIT – here is the link to Peters’ questions to the PM in Question Time, where he tried to pin Key down on whether Key had ever asked for the phone records of any ‘private citizen’.
              http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/20311

  8. richard 9

    An aside (sort of)

    The odious Goff can be a good speaker. I can’t reconcile his rhetoric yesterday with his actions. Like Key, he unforgivably prefers not to look too deeply into what the military and spooks do –
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/84180/labour-and-govt-reject-inquiry-into-hager-claims

    • karol 9.1

      Yes. Goff is a problem – a great speaker, but too far to the right for my liking.

  9. newsense 10

    Bring back Goff-

    Goff/Cunliffe and then Shearer third where he doesn’t have to speak so much…Nothing like some relevant experience and a track record when going for a job. Though it’s very white middle aged blokey…

  10. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1308/S00087/open-letter-to-independent-mp-peter-dunne-penny-bright.htm

    Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 9:11 am
    Press Release: Penny Bright
    7 August 2013

    ‘Open Letter’ to ‘Independent’ MP Peter Dunne:
    From Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright:

    “Why are you continuing to support the GCSB Bill”?

    Dear Peter,

    You didn’t like your private correspondence being surveilled, so please be consistent and do not support this GCSB legislation, which will allow spying on New Zealanders, which is not currently the case.

    Are you aware of the following considered view of the New Zealand law Society?

    Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 3:48 pm
    Press Release: New Zealand Law Society
    MEDIA RELEASE – For immediate use, 6 August 2013

    GCSB Bill remains flawed despite proposed changes

    Proposed changes to the GCSB Bill represent minor improvements but do not address the fundamental flaws in the bill and the legislation should not proceed, the New Zealand Law Society says.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1308/S00082/gcsb-bill-remains-flawed-despite-proposed-changes.htm

    Please do NOT be a hypocrite?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-privatisation /anti-corruption’ campaigner

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=229

  11. xtasy 12

    All speakers had merit, and even Goff, who is controversial of course, he showed again, he is a great speaker, at least in Parliament.

    Dunne can twist and turn, blame and run, he is the traitor, the willing seller of his soul, that makes him JUDAS, according to the bible, especially since he earlier claimed that he would never vote for the bill under the given conditions. The conditions were not changed to justify his change of mind, so what was the damned price then, MR Dunne? What did you get to sell yourself? That is what it boils down to, Peter, you sold your damned soul, and you have done so repeatedly.

    Shame on you, shame on you, how can you still sit in Parliament and how can you face your electorate?

    You deserve to not be there anymore, throw the bastard out, I call out to Ohariu voters!

  12. Jenny 13

    Hi Karol. What did David Shearer say?

    • karol 13.1

      Shearer said…um… ah… while looking down and trying to read his notes without stumbling. Not something I’d want to watch again. I tried to read the print version – it’s just as boring to read as it was to watch/listen to.

      Blah, blah, blah – Key is lying, is not on top of his portfolio, or is deliberately following a don’t ask, don’t tell kind of policy. blah, blah, blah – checks and balances… blah blah blah, need for a full independent review, within a month of law passing, sunset clause, ….. because, unfortunately we are not likely to be able to stop this Bill passing.

      blah blah blah… passing mention of Dunne’s incomprehensible support of the Bill….. conclusion… mostly about Labour’s SOP rather than demolishing the Bill as it stands or the hypocrisy behind it.

      Shearer’s concluding remarks:

      Supplementary Order Paper 305 does what we believe is the right thing to do. It starts by providing for a proper inquiry into our intelligence agencies—not just the GCSB but right across the board. It brings to the fore something that we have not had an independent inquiry on since 1976. That was the last time we had any independent inquiry into our intelligence agencies. Many, many people are saying to me that this is exactly what we need to do. From there we move to the legislative change that is necessary to set up a structure that would have the confidence of New Zealanders, because right now this bill certainly—

  13. tracey 14

    Peters quoting dame anne quoting key…

  14. richard 15

    It looks like that after their initial bluster, labour have given up on this.

    I/S has listed who has put up the latest SOPs – all from Russel Norman (and one from Brendan Horan).

    As he comments: “Again, Labour really is leaving it to the Greens to lead on this. I guess for all Grant Robertson’s rhetorical fury, they don’t really care about our privacy.”

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/the-spy-bill-more-amendments.html

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    3 days ago
  • Bill has biggest education changes in decades
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    4 days ago
  • Bali Democracy Forum to focus on democracy and inclusivity
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    5 days ago
  • Infrastructure investments to be brought forward
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  • Future-proofing New Zealand
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  • New Zealand’s newest Great Walk, the Paparoa track opened – an asset for the West Coast
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  • P-8A Poseidon base works commence
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    7 days ago
  • Launch of the National Emergency Management Agency
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  • NASA 2020 Internship applications open
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  • New Zealand to send more medical staff and essential supplies to Samoa
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  • Cost less of a factor for Kiwis seeking GP care
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    7 days ago
  • Trade for All Board releases recommendations
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  • Porirua housing partnership to improve housing in the city
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  • Prime Minster Delivers Erebus Apology
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  • PGF backing Southland skills
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  • Public service gender pay gap continues to close and more women in leadership
    The Government has made good progress towards eliminating the gender pay gap in the Public Service, Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter announced today.  The latest data from the annual Public Service Workforce Data Report, shows that the 2019 Public Service gender pay gap fell to 10.5% from 12.2% in ...
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    1 week ago
  • Safer speed limits for schools
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