I want that left wing bastard gone

Written By: - Date published: 4:01 pm, April 13th, 2015 - 279 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, Dirty Politics, Media, tv - Tags: , ,

Joe Trinder at Mana News makes an interesting claim:

Key: I want that left wing bastard gone

Last year Prime Minister John Key and Mark Weldon had a phone conversation in regards to John Campbell. Mr Key was overheard saying “I want that left wing bastard gone”. The prime minister had insidiously conspired with Mark Weldon to end John Campbell’s broadcasting career and have Campbell live taken off the air. …

There are further claims relating to the role of Burger King.

In comments following Joe strongly defends the Key claim, and states that he has a witness who can verify it. The reaction to these claims (e.g. on Twitter) has been mixed / skeptical.

279 comments on “I want that left wing bastard gone ”

  1. tinfoilhat 1


    • Once was Tim 1.1

      That’s not actually a look of surprise is it?

      If it is then I take it you’ve not encountered many ‘Masters of the Universe’ (those who’re usually of average intelligence but equipped with animal cunning [shithouse rats and drainpipes spring to mind]; who’ve learned the spin lingo – or shud I say they’ve had “learnings”; and whose animal survival instinct has been particularly successful in an environment where there’s a laid-back [“she’ll be right”] attitude whisch is fucking easy and ripe for fascist intent.
      Roll the dice …. ya get what you deserve. It’s just that all those various minorities (that a functioning democracy is supposed to be sympathetic to) take the burdom.

      …..The Band …… “the Weight”

      Nazareth is soon to be the best NuZull can hope for (Christ Almighty … and John Key is a Jew …. yea well Mex Key’s a D-d-d-d-JAY)

    • quinnjin 1.2

      Tin Foil Hat? You mean the one worn by idiots who believe John keys BS and vote national? Yes I agree, they’re all right wing nut jobs. We know John Key is a lying corrupt scum bag, who has it in for decent journalists and anyone who isn’t his pet bum boy like Mike “SkyCitySponsored” Hoskings, and Paul “ShitforBreakfast” Henry. That’s a matter of historical record.
      We know Keys privileged relationship track record with media works and that companies obvious right wing pro national bias.
      So this is in fact entirely believable.
      No tin foil hat required. Whether its true, or verifiable, is another matter obviously.

  2. Anne 2

    There’s no doubting a set of circumstances was used by a bunch of Key/Joyce acolytes as an excuse to get rid of Campbell. Nonetheless if you’re going to publicly make such a claim then you have to provide something that would count as evidence otherwise you play into the enemy’s hands.

    A few weeks ago Kim Dotcom made a claim that a bunch of SIS staffers were planning to set up some sort of honey trap for him using one of their female agents. He claimed it was revealed in an OIA’d document his lawyer acquired. He went on to say he had since received an apology from the SIS Director, Rebecca Kitteridge. Unless he was prepared to release the evidence proving it’s authenticity, he should have kept his mouth shut.

    • Rob 2.1

      Jeez, imagine the poor soul who was to be ‘pimped out’ as the bait.

      • rawshark-yeshe 2.1.1

        @Rob .. unnecessarily ugly of you, don’t you think ? or just simply vile and mean ?

        jeez is right.

      • Not Arandar 2.1.2

        Are you saying Pam Corkery is an SIS plant?

        [There is a glitch. This comment was not made by Arandar] – Bill

        [lprent: someone hijacking a email address. Adding to permanent bans. By the look of it some kind of arsehole from Lauda Finem astroturfing a post]

        • Once was Tim

          She could be lol – my cuzzie was an SIS agent not so very long ago – I suspect turfed out because of his alcoholism – but – parse the parcel and what plays in Vegas stays in Vegas and all that kaka. That’s of course until there’s a player who prioritises the blood is thicker than water routine.
          I’m almost sure the SIS and GCSB have an overpaid ‘risk manager’ who is on “the case”. (incidentally – s0 too the Polis)
          Wouldn’t be too dissimilar though would it to the number of our ‘honourable poltishuns” whose various indiscretions are kept from public media.

          If Pam Corkery is a plant – her ex Phil would have been arrested many many moons ago (rather than some hard done-by Kapiti Coast ???? with a shitload on its political rep); Simon Wilson wouldn’t be editor of metro, and half of the Onslow College ilk of the day would be watching their backs and considering various claims of abuse.
          (I suppose the upside is, half of them were able to walk those glorious polishied concrete floors in the archtecturally twee Burma Road mansion that “the Si” once graced.)
          I stand in awe – actually I lay down and have a gigantic sleep in awe.

    • tinfoilhat 2.2

      @ anne …yes if he and his gathering of sycophants and various hangers on had kept their mouths shut over the last couple of years we might now have a Green/Labour government !

      • Anne 2.2.1

        Hang on tfh who is “he”? If you’re referring to John Campbell then you don’t know what you’re talking about. Its Campbell Live’s job to ferret out corruption, incompetency and poor governance be it government, local bodies or the private sector.

        • tinfoilhat

          Dotcom……why on earth would anyone expect John Campbell to keep his mouth shut ?

          • Anne

            Oh I see tfh, that makes more sense. Sorry about that, but you didn’t make yourself very clear.

    • James 2.3

      Kim Dotcom makes a lot of claims – Last time he released “evidence” at the moment of truth it didn’t exactly stand up to scrutiny.

      • Colonial Rawshark 2.3.1

        It successfully exposed NZ’s complicity and role in the FVEY surveillance network. It didn’t do much to lay a specific finger on John Key though, even though Key is a central figure with knowledge of what NZ is committed to.

        • Richard Christie

          What happened to the email DC presented? Did it not go to a parliamentary committee or something?
          Or are we all just to accept it was faked on the say so of Key and a Hollywood exec ?

          • McFlock

            damn, it’s almost as if we need a government agency that independently archives everyone’s emails so we can confirm veracity in situations such as this 🙂

          • Lanthanide

            They tried to present it to the speaker to go to the privileges committee, but it had dissolved because of the election.

            Nothing happened after that, presumably because Mana / IP didn’t get back into Parliament, and none of the other parties were stupid enough to raise it after that.

            I read somewhere recently (maybe a comment here?) that the letter supposedly came from The Herald, and that what was published on the day was all they had – a screenshot of the supposed text, but none of the metadata that would be required to back it up.

        • Chooky

          +100 CR….and John Campbell did much to show up Key

          …this is why I believe Joe Trinder…because Campbell is the only television msm NZ journalist with the guts to expose Key’s lies

          …. the writing was probably on the wall for Campbell when he did that investigative journalism series into the lies and deceptions and timelines on John Key’s meetings with US spy masters and others with vested interests in spying on New Zealanders…..also exposed his appointment of his friend Fletcher as head of the GCSB


          …all the more reason why the Campbell Live Show should remain…it is a quintessential NZ programme with unflinching investigative journalism on the big issues facing New Zealand eg. TPPA and Zero contracts ….and smaller items of individual justice and interest (eg. it includes solo parents, children , surfing grannies, animals like kittens and chooks)

          If Campbell is not around to examine the big issues facing New Zealand and New Zealanders….and if necessary investigate Key on television…. who is?..we no longer have the television guardians of democracy

      • Murray Rawshark 2.3.2

        We no longer have a society where evidence is put under scrutiny. We have a society where FJK says “the witness is a known lefty conspiracy theorist”, some lefties add “and he’s a misogynist”, three vegans say “eating meat is disgusting” and the evidence is forgotten. Due to a compliant media and an undemanding electorate, Dotcom’s evidence was never scrutinised.

        That is not to say it couldn’t have been presented in a more effective manner.

        • Colonial Rawshark

          Casting pearls before swine.

        • veutoviper

          Well put, Murray.

          Great to see you back, kia kaha. Some people are full of their own self-importance (not you!); but enough said.

          [Totally off topic, but wondered whether next Monday you would be in the vicinity of the MoJ building you visited on 19 February, where you saw a ‘famous person’. According to this NBR article on 19 March, remand was extended until 20 April – which usually means the date of the next scheduled court hearing ….

          http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/prominent-new-zealander-name-suppression-extended-vy-170285 ]

          • Murray Rawshark

            Thanks veuto. Unfortunately I will not be in Whangarei next Monday. I have my monthly hospital appointment in Brisbane.

            • veutoviper

              Though I would mention next Monday as a possibility …. Will keep a close check on certain journalists’ Twitter feeds – those who appear to be the ones attending certain court hearings, including Victoria Young of NBR – and report here on TS if I hear anything. (Provided I don’t get banned in the meantime. My anger on a certain Sunday morning a few weeks ago was such that I had to hold back from commenting here for quite some time – and not comment on a certain subject/person as I would not have held back and would most certainly have been banned.)

              On your monthly trips to Brisbane, don’t want to ask details but all the very best. I have family in Brisbane, some of whom have worked in various specialist (eg cancer) hospitals there and others who have had treatment in these, and I know that they are very good. Way better than here. So I am really pleased that you are able to get there. Again, kia kaha.

              • Murray Rawshark

                Thanks. My clinic is just routine. I had a liver transplant last year and get looked at once a month. No real problems so far. As you say, healthcare in the Brisbane public hospitals is very good. It was put in place by people like us, fighting for a better world, and has not yet been attacked and dismantled as much as in Aotearoa. Governments would love to, but Australians are very attached to their medical system.

                • rawshark-yeshe

                  @murray .. travel well and stay safe .. we have great need of you and your insightful (and sometimes inciteful) posts ! 😀

                  • Murray Rawshark

                    Thanks. I don’t actually mean to be inciteful but one of my colleagues once suggested that if I developed Tourette’s, nobody would notice. My approach fits well with my profession as a physicist, where we ruthlessly criticise each other’s work, with very few taking it personally. Politics is much harder and more complex.

    • Karen 2.4

      +1 Anne
      This sort of unsubstantiated claim does a lot of damage to the left.

      • weka 2.4.1

        I was also disappointed by KDC’s claim and then nothing. Would love to know if he gets PR advice or its all down to him.

      • fisiani 2.4.2

        the Left just constantly make up shit in order to cry wolf to scare the people. The people know it’s just shit so ignore it.
        A Mana spokesman said Blah Blah Blah…..

    • Clemgeopin 2.5

      “He went on to say he had since received an apology from the SIS Director, Rebecca Kitteridge”

      Do you have a link? I haven’t read that claim. If the report is true, a journalist should ask Rebecca Kitteridge about it.

      • Anne 2.5.1

        It was a twitter comment I saw somewhere online. I don’t do twitter so would have no idea how to retrieve it. I’m sure I read it correctly because I was taken aback by the claim and had doubts about it’s veracity.

      • freedom 2.5.2

        I think this might be the comment Anne is referring to

        • Clemgeopin

          Thanks freedom.

          Those statements by the spies are so disgusting. These are the types of bastards that are in charge of our intelligence/security agencies!

          It is good on the SIS chief (Rebecca Kitteridge ?) to have sent Kim Dot Com an apology letter on behalf of those despicable people. But that is not enough. She should sack all those in her spy agency who were part of that evil/disgraceful/criminal conversation. Has she sacked them or jailed them? Where the hell are our MPs and journalists not to have demanded more information and action from her and the government?

          • Anne

            Problem is Clemgeopin he didn’t put up any evidence and until he does no-one is going to touch it with a barge pole. Setting aside the idiot rwnjs on this site who make irrational demands for evidence on mere opinions, you can’t make claims of this nature without producing something to back it up. Dotcom has not done so.

            • Clemgeopin

              True Anne, but I suspect that as KDC is primarily fighting a very serious legal battle, he is probably taking counsel and may have been advised not to reveal everything at this stage.

    • Rosie 2.6

      +1 Anne. One could easily speculate about the degree of fishiness around political intervention in eyeing up John Campbell and the team for the axe, however I agree some solid evidence is necessary to make a claim to that effect, and to show some legitimacy on the behalf of the person who claims it.

      ” The decision was made by the National party caucus with strong influence from former radio works CEO MP Steven Joyce.”

      This is quite a radical statement. You can’t put anything past Key and Joyce, they are so crooked but to really pin it on them you need to adopt Hagar like skills and produce the proof.

      I’d love to see that proof.

      • Clemgeopin 2.6.1

        In the many comments below the article, the writer/News Editor, Joe Trinder says, this:

        “I’m comfortable with the public being skeptical because I haven’t revealed my source. Here is what won’t happen –John Key’s lawyers won’t demand I repeal the article on defamation because they know a New Zealander out there that can testify to hearing the comment”

        Quite intriguing, isn’t it!

        Read all the comments here:

        • Clemgeopin

          In reply to a post, ‘How can you expect us to believe you, when one of your last “articles” was a complete lie, stating that Burger King had pulled all their advertising from Media Works when in actual fact they haven’t done that at all?’

          He says this:

          “Burger King decided to resume its advertising with Mediaworks due to my article that’s good –the letter Burger King sent to Campbell live and Mark Weldon that didn’t express that sentiment. Maybe Burger King would be willing to publicly release the email and the response and prove me wrong.

          Not a light claim! A very challenging/gutsy one!

          Pretty interesting/explosive/intriguing, isn’t it!

          • TheContrarian

            No it’s not challenging or gutsy, it’s stupid and bullshit. Joe obviously didn’t think this through because how could BK release the email showing he was wrong – there’d be no email to release. Basically he is saying BK could prove my claim they sent me an email wrong by….releasing the email they never sent me.

            Doesn’t make any fucking sense.

            • Clemgeopin

              Well, they could state that they did not send any such email and take defamation action?

              • Why bother with that? People make all sorts of weird claims about public and commercial figures all the time and no-one bats an eyelid because most of the time it is complete crap. If this was in a major newspaper then maybe but this is on a blog. I bet, if BK or Key are even aware of it it would be met with a collective “meh”.

                You don’t really think that because no-one has made a defamation claim it makes it true… Seriously?

                • Clemgeopin

                  I am not saying they are true, but are quite serious allegations and character assassinations. So denial and defamation is appropriate.

                  • Some guy ranting some shit on a blog and being met mostly with derision would hardly rate on anyone’s radar. A major newspaper with a readership in the 100’s of thousands yeah, Joe Trinder getting savaged for what is obviously bullshit on a blog related to a mostly, publicaly anyway, discredited political party? Yeah, na.

                    In fact why sue for defamation? It’s only Trinders character getting defamed here.

        • Rosie

          Hi Clemgeopin. I hadn’t read that comment. Fair enough and good point about the defamation. Key and Co wrote off the entire contents of Dirty Politics without feeling the need to sue anyone for defamation – they knew it was true even though they denied everything.

          I still don’t really see the need to publish such a claim though, especially if it’s not going anywhere. It won’t contribute anything of use to the fight to save Campbell Live. I’d love to be proved wrong.

    • weka 2.7

      I can see it both ways. The more privileged are going to take the line that such allegations do more harm than good, because we are still in positions to value ethics and principles over political reality. But I suspect that Mana understand many people have nothing less to lose (it’s a pity that I’m now thinking of Pat O’Dea’s mess as a spokesperson because you still need credibility).

      It reminds me of strategy talked about in feminist circles on the past where women who had been sexually assaulted and had no other recourse for justice could name their attacker publicly. Defamation law requires the attacker to then take them to court and thus risk exposure.

  3. Well, this is rubbish, isn’t it? I’m reminded about the discussion here on the weekend about corruption. The takeaway from that chat is that whenever the left makes overblown and unprovable allegations like this, we look weak and it makes the right stronger.

    On the up side, it’s mana, so it won’t go far. Hopefully no further than a snide post on Yawnz or the other right wing blogs. Unless Weldon sues for defamation, of course.

    • Lanthanide 3.1


      Shearer’s reign at the helm of Labour seemed particularly tainted by this, and Goff before him wasn’t much better. Don’t think it was too bad with Cunliffe, but with Little there’s been pretty much none.

      • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1

        In other words, the way to get elected in this country is to stick with the confines of the approved status quo orthodoxy, even if that orthodoxy is driving the nation off a cliff.

    • “so it won’t go far”

      ummm it has already been put up on the most popular left wing blog – I know blame Mana it must be their fault – bloody need to get rid of those left wing bastards eh

      • weka 3.2.1


      • I provided the context in my comment, marty. mana currently have a limited circle of influence, because they aren’t in parliament. Therefore, I hope any damage this fluff causes is limited. So far, apart from this post and some corrective chat on other social media, there’s nothing. Good. That’s all I’m saying.

    • Murray Rawshark 3.3

      I would say that every time you post the right gets stronger. Blip’s list showed plenty of cases of corruption, just within ngati poaka.

    • weka 3.4

      “Hopefully no further than a snide post on Yawnz”

      It’s up now. Here’s the donotlink http://www.donotlink.com/ek5k Haven’t read it though 😉

  4. Colonial Rawshark 4

    If there was real evidence, it should have been gotten into Winston Peters hands for a proper revealing!

    • rawshark-yeshe 4.1

      There is still time CR, and maybe best raised in the House under protection ? My hope anyway !

      • Lanthanide 4.1.1

        If it has to be raised in the house for ‘protection’ then it must be pretty flimsy evidence.

        • rawshark-yeshe

          Not necessarily. Protection to make the claim of outright corruption by Key and have a proper means to examine it .. that kind of ‘protection’.

          • Lanthanide

            If it is raised outside parliament, because of its serious nature, it would be challenged. If it were not challenged, that would tell you everything you need to know.

            • rawshark-yeshe

              Well, it is raised outside of Parliament .. let’s see if it’s challenged or not. And please, what do you mean by your last sentence ? It’s not quite clear to me … thx Lanth.

              • Lanthanide

                If it were raised outside Parliament by someone prominent such as Winston Peters, I mean.

    • weka 4.2

      Yeah Peters has never made claims that later weren’t validated 😉

      • rawshark-yeshe 4.2.1

        And neither has Mana, which is where the post begins.

        • weka

          Are you saying Peters and Mans are as bad as each other?

          • rawshark-yeshe

            No. Exactly the opposite. I believe in them both to come through for us on matters like this. Dammit, somebody has to.

            • Lanthanide

              weka was being sarcastic, hence the winky smile.

              Winston has frequently said things that turned out not to be true. Like the supposed sale of Huka Lodge to the chinese.

            • weka

              I’m willing to believe Trinder on this, or the possibility it’s true. But Peters has often puffed himself up with claims that come to nothing. Other times he delivers. That’s Peters, always unreliable because it’s a game. Just responding to CV’s idea that this would have been better handled by Peters.

              • rawshark-yeshe

                I just so want it to be proven Weka ! We all know it’s true in essence that Key is gunning for Campbell Live, but oh, if proof exists ? I’ll keep hoping and willing to believe.

    • Lanthanide 4.3

      Actually, this would be the coup-de-grace for Campbell to keep his show on the air…

  5. Lanthanide 5

    I feel like this would be better suited as a comment in Open Mike until such time as evidence was given to back it up.

    • Skinny 5.1

      Looks suspect to me. Put up or shut up, hearsay evidence is hardly proof. Looks like huff & puff stuff to me.

  6. Maui 6

    Joe Trinder defends his comments on facebook here: http://postimg.org/image/r6y1lrkyl/

    • weka 6.1

      They’re on the mana news page too I think. The bit I think people are missing is he isn’t after credibility. When you take that into account, it makes more sense. This is guerrilla warfare not nation state rules of engagement.

      • Maui 6.1.1

        Oh I didn’t see those, interesting point. I wonder if this sort of message just strengthens Mana voters hatred of the Government rather than being a good way of attracting new voters…

    • rawshark-yeshe 6.2

      and very badly, which is a great shame.

      • BassGuy 6.2.1

        Agreed. It’s something I would like to believe but until any evidence has come out, it’s all just too easy to dismiss.

  7. the pigman 7


    Even worse when you read Joe’s article and his spirited defense…

  8. TheContrarian 8

    “Mana News doesn’t have to substantiate our reveal it sourceswe don’t write balanced articles. We expose the national governments corruption the onus is on the media to do its job and prove us wrong.”

    – Joe in the comments section

    I’m now almost entirely convinced this is complete bullshit. That sort of answer reeks of “I/we/someone just made this up”. Like when Bomber claimed The Daily Blog was hacked by the government he got all huffy and nasty when queried. Answers of that sort scream bullshit. Shifting of the Burden of Proof is a tell-tale sign of complete shit being spun

    • weka 8.1

      Citation needed

        • weka

          Your claims about Bomber, TDB etc. There was a certain irony to your assertions all things considered.

          • TheContrarian

            I’ll be more than happy to provide links but I’m on my dying phone in a hotel with limited ability right now. If you can wait until tomorrow I can give you the links you asked for.

            • weka


              • Tomorrow it is.

                But if I said “you prove me wrong, I don’t have to show you evidence” I’m sure you’d be a little less accepting.

              • Rosie

                It’s true weka. I was still around on the DTB site when that happened, when the site went down. It was at the time of the talk on the TCIS bill that DTB hosted (I attended the Wgtn talk).

                Probably would have been around August 2013. I kind of believed him at the time, but then I changed my mind, as his blowharderey became increasingly apparent to me.

                It’s not to say that strange things don’t happen to people that speak out against the government or dare to question it’s direction, simply that Martyn Bradbury believed he was a victim of a government conspiracy to silence him, and I think his ego got a little inflated at the thought being such an important figure that the government would seek him out especially.

                • weka

                  Sure Rosie, I have no problem with that. I was more pointing out the irony of TC making a statement about Bomber and putting a fair amount of spin on it from his own negative feelins about Bomber and using that to come to the conclusion that Trinder is full of shit, as if the two things have any relationship other than TC’s feelings.

                  I have not idea if Trinder is telling the truth, making shit up, or something in between. I feel uncomfortable with how he’s done this, for similar reasons to most people here. I also am curious about the idea that he doesn’t care about credibility and what that might mean. That’s way more interesting to me than assertions that he’s lying when there is no evidence for that other than that he refuses to provide evidence 😉

                  Pretty interesting watching people’s reactions.

                  • TheContrarian

                    Ahhhh, no. Bomber being full of shit in no way influenced my coming to the conclusion of Trinder being full of shit. Where the two share commonality is the refusal to substantiate their claims – that’s it.

                    I don’t know how you came to the conclusion that i was “using that to come to the conclusion that Trinder is full of shit…”

                    • weka

                      Probably because that’s what it looked like, and because you have no evidence that lack of presentation of evidence = being full of shit, and that in the case of Bomber it looks to be more about your hatred of him so how is that useful?

                      I’m happy to stand corrected that you weren’t making any other connection.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Bomber aside it’s not just the lack of evidence – it reversal of the burden of proof, the deleting of comments , bold assertions being stated as fact, the fact that if this was an overheard phone conversation the eavesdropper would have no idea who Key was talking to or about what, the weird “BK should release the email they didn’t send to prove they didn’t send it” statement and the unlikeliness Key would need to direct anyone to fire Campbell when one of his acolytes could just do it for him (which may actually be what happened).

                      It all speaks, on the balance of probabilities, to being being a steaming pile of horse shit.

                      But hey, if Trinder wants to man up and provide evidence, I’d be more than happy to be wrong.

                    • weka

                      “it reversal of the burden of proof”

                      Unless he doesn’t care about credibility and is doing this for other reasons.

                      “the deleting of comments”

                      Did you check that? I thought it too, but then I could see the comment from the guy who claimed that.

                      I don’t actually care if bloggers delete comments. ‘my blog my rules’. Women bloggers routinely have to remove comments from their blogs, so it’s normal to me. It’s not an inherent sign of someone being a bullshitter.

                      “bold assertions being stated as fact”

                      Yeah, kind of like TRP’s post recently with a rumour in it. He got a somewhat different reception though.

                      “the fact that if this was an overheard phone conversation the eavesdropper would have no idea who Key was talking to or about what”

                      That’s not true, use your imagination and bear in mind we’re not talking about court of law levels of evidence here.

                      “the weird “BK should release the email they didn’t send to prove they didn’t send it” statement”


                      “and the unlikeliness Key would need to direct anyone to fire Campbell when one of his acolytes could just do it for him (which may actually be what happened).”

                      It wouldn’t be the first time Key’s made a mistake.

                      What we’re disagreeing on here is not whether Trinder made it up, but whether your assumptions and conclusions are reasonable.

                    • TheContrarian

                      I’m not interested in relitigating all this. If you wanna believe him, not believe him, think my reasoning is unsound or whatever, go for your life.

                      I’ve stated my position and you yours. I think we can safely leave it there. There’s no real need to go into the minutia. You disagree with my conclusions and rationale and I am happy to leave it at that – I don’t really have the time to go into it any further.

                    • weka

                      Sure, but you’re the one that just made a bunch of assertions that I then critiqued and now you have no response? This is exactly what I am talking about.

                    • TheContrarian

                      I do have a response – I don’t have time for this. Draw whatever conclusions you like

                    • Skinny

                      “That’s not true, use your imagination and bear in mind we’re not talking about court of law levels of evidence here.”

                      Without proof which this clown from Mana refuses to supply it is sheer theatre. It is simply not worth bothering having a trip to fantasy island over.

                  • Rosie

                    Hi weka.

                    Got it. I was also wondering what the pathway was between TC’s reaction to Trinder’s claim of knowing there was a statement from the PM “I want that left wing bastard gone” and Martyn Bradbury’s reaction to his site going down, apart from the obvious theme of “Key government out to get dissenters” (which by the way, I agree with you that is completely plausible given the track record).

                    Good to see TC cleared that up when he said

                    “Ahhhh, no. Bomber being full of shit in no way influenced my coming to the conclusion of Trinder being full of shit. Where the two share commonality is the refusal to substantiate their claims – that’s it.”

                    That aside, a good protest response to Key’s alleged statement if we ever had a leg to stand on with it, would be “We want that right wing bastard PM gone”.

                • weka

                  Thanks, and thanks for proving my point.

                  “I’m now almost entirely convinced this is complete bullshit. That sort of answer reeks of “I/we/someone just made this up”. Like when Bomber claimed The Daily Blog was hacked by the government he got all huffy and nasty when queried. Answers of that sort scream bullshit. Shifting of the Burden of Proof is a tell-tale sign of complete shit being spun”

                  See, when I read the post and comments what I see is a relatively neutral announcement of a hack of the site (a courtesy I would have thought), a claim that the hack was sophisticated, and a single comment at the end wondering if this came from someone in the employ of the govt.

                  Given Bomber’s political activities and connections with radicals, and given DP and the level of corruption of this govt, I don’t see how that’s implausible.

                  I also don’t see him getting huffy and nasty when queried, I see him getting huffy and scathing and refusing to do what you want when questioned by two people that hate on him publicly.

                  In other words, your characterisation of him looks like it’s driven by the fact that you’ve fallen out with him and don’t like him, which really has nothing to do with the plausibility of his post (or Trinder’s).

                  Not liking someone isn’t evidence of their bullshit. You are of course entitled to your opinion about Bomber (and it’s shared by quite a few people), but it still doesn’t relate to the actual issue.

  9. Bill 9

    That’s not an ‘interesting claim’ at all. Unless sources are in the pipeline, that piece is nothing but thoughtless fucking bullshit.

    For the writer of the article (Joe 4 hours ago) to contend that Mana News don’t have to substantiate what they report as fact, because it’s up to the media to prove them wrong, is bordering on looped out and gone bysey-byes.

    Not to be outdone by mere mods and authors, commenters writing that people have no right to demand verification because those seeking verification happily swallow government lines ‘hook, line and sinker’, are tiny voices trying to get back to us from over some distant horizon of just plain old ‘gone’.

    Seems the “Cliff. Front runners. Fast followers.” comment I submitted on the “Clinton running for President’ post would have better off placed here.

  10. emergency mike 10

    Meh, maybe it’s true, but without evidence ‘I got a mate who says he heard John Key say blah’ is simply rumour mongering a la Cameron Slater.

  11. Upnorth 11

    Come on guys – Mana news have said in ther comment column they dont need to prove anything – My mother is a supermodel and only 36.

    Lets get real here – show the details then it is a story – just saying we “dont have to prove it” is not a good start for a conversation.

  12. Plan B 12

    I would encourage people to read the Chris Trotter article:
    It pretty much explains everything.
    Many people here are looking for truths, and are worried that some comments from the left cannot be proved. meanwhile the new world we live in is no longer interested in truth, is unconcerned about being found out, maybe JK and his team understand this new world in the same way that Surkov does and are acting in the same way?

  13. millsy 13

    Not suprising. I have no doubt he would have said that but as said above, no proof.

    • Anne 13.1

      Agreed. I bet he said it more than once. But you have to serve up something akin to evidence.

  14. Ecosse_Maidy 14

    We are proud to announce that John Campbells replacement,,,will be a 24 hour Celebrity Big Brother John Keys Show…lets give it up for John

  15. Ecosse_Maidy 15

    You think it bad we are talking Campbell Live off air? You wait till we can Bananas In Pyjamas & Country Calanders, you plebs!!!!

  16. PROOF, show. me. the. proof, now!!! show me the proof now!!! show it to me!!! meanwhile all the proof for a million lies and distortions are in BliPs list and what has happened – nowt and why??? – get that and the left might get somewhere in the next election.

    Might be true, sounds trueish, hope it’s true, but proof – nah that’s not how the game works anymore.

    • Bill 16.1

      Not entirely sure where you’re coming from marty.

      Yes, it’s believable that JK could have said he ‘wanted the bastard gone’ and it’s believable that political machinations are at the root of Campbell being axed.

      But there are ways to put unverified but believable stuff out there and ways to put unverified but believable stuff out there; ways that avoid an invite to some post modernist hell hole, where everything is truth and/or lies depending on the time of day and what truth you want to build…where facts are unnecessary, where no verification or thought is required and where such ‘niceties’ sink below the fetid surface of a world comprising of nowt but a churning of senseless bullshit.

      • weka 16.1.1

        If it’s true that he can’t reveal his sources, do you think there is a way to put the information out there that is different to what he did?

        • Bill

          Many ways.

          One way is satire.

          Another is to use qualifiers (eg, apparently or, it’s my understanding that etc) in the stead of bald assertion.

          Or he could have more or less written exactly what he did if he’d prefaced the whole pile of shite with a ‘Would you believe…?’

          Meanwhile, the first ‘source’ is sitting at the level of ‘a man with a dug in the pub’.

          Second source – an email where he claims to know the recipients and sender. Produce it, with the sender’s name redacted if need be…

          Now, I’m fine that he doesn’t want credibility. Not fine that he didn’t reflect on how his bullshit (assuming at this point there is no drip feed and reveal at play) will be used to discredit other more substantial claims coming from the broader left in the future.

          • weka

            thanks, that’s helpful. So largely it’s about how he’s done this rather than him doing it without producing evidence per se (reminds me of TRP’s recent rumourmongering post).

            I’m not so sure about the last sentence. As I’ve said to McFlock, I’m not sure that Mana owe the broader left much. I don’t agree with the approach that Trinder has taken, but I’m also willing to look further at why he might be using that approach.

            • Skinny

              Mana was a one tricky pony that failed to listen to the wise head in Sue Bradford. Hone won’t ever get back into parliament and he knows it.

            • Bill

              No, it’s not about how he’s done this. If he’d done any of the above, he wouldn’t have been doing what he’s done.

              And yes, it’s reminiscent of trp’s post. Kind of. Except he didn’t make any bold claims or report anything that would reasonably be treated as rumour as fact.

              • weka

                “No, it’s not about how he’s done this. If he’d done any of the above, he wouldn’t have been doing what he’s done.”

                Sorry, I can’t make any sense of that. Obviously if he’d done things differently he’d have done things differently.

                Many people here are saying that it’s the fact that he won’t/can’t produce evidence that is the problem. I thought you were saying that he could have for instance used qualifiers and this would mean he wasn’t leaving himself (and others) open to being undermined.

                The comparison I was drawing with TRP’s post was the absence of evidence.

                • Bill

                  To clarify. If he’d written (say) satire he simply would not have been presenting facts. That’s not ‘doing things differently’. It’s doing something completely different.

                  If he had presented his shit as something other than hard and fast fact with none of the usual stuff that goes with hard and fast facts – eg, some fucking evidence! – then he wouldn’t have to field any calls for evidence to be produced, would he?

                  TRP didn’t need evidence to back up facts because TRP was writing about rumour and speculation and presenting it as such.

            • te reo putake

              There are a couple of differences between my April Fools Day post and this situation, weka.

              Firstly, I made it clear it was unsubstantiated rumours I was posting on. I didn’t claim they were true. And I don’t represent anyone other than myself.

              However, Trinder is the news editor at mana news. He is authorised to speak for the mana party. He is claiming his story is true, but is refusing to back up his claim.

              I’m merely an opinion piece writer on broad based political blog. Trinder is an official of a political party, responsible for its media output. I would have thought a grasp of both journalistic methods and ethics would have been desirable in the role of news editor, but apparently not:

              “We care little for reputation or working to a journalist’s code of ethics we bend the rules. We don’t write balanced fair articles … ”

              So, he’s leaving open the possibility that he is just straight out lying.

              • weka

                The comparison was simply around the absence of evidence, which seems to be a big sticking point for a number of people.

                Your larger comment is another example of the expectation that Mana and Mana News should behave in certain collectively sanctioned ways. Why is that?

                Edit, Trinder’s statement on being a blogger not a journo http://thestandard.org.nz/i-want-that-left-wing-bastard-gone/#comment-999911

                • Why is that?

                  To avoid looking like tossers, mainly.

                  As I’ve said elsewhere, these feeble attacks simply strengthen the right. And any time the left find something of substance, the right can just roll their eyes and mumble ‘HFee, Dotcom, Trinder, blah, blah, blah …’

                  • weka

                    “To avoid looking like tossers, mainly.”

                    That’s not concern for Mana though right? It’s about protecting the downtrodden left. So again, why should Mana be concerned about that?

                    • Why should mana be concerned? I thought mana was supposed to be part of the left, but if they’re not, well, fuck ’em.

                    • weka

                      I think it’s the other way round TRP, fuck them unless they do what we want the way we want it done. And yeah, let’s fuck the Mana constituency while we’re at it and if they don’t like it they can be represented by Labour 🙄

                    • The ‘mana constituency’, at least the northern portion of it, actually voted to be represented by Labour at the last election, weka.

                      I think this piece in mana news may just be the final twitches of a dying beast. When a party is that irrelevant that they have to resort to making shit up and saying ‘so what, the rules don’t apply to us, maaan’ then they’re dog tucker. But, until they finally wind up, I suppose they will continue to do small harms to the wider left movement with stunts such as this article.

                    • weka

                      I was thinking of the non-vote, but anyway.

                      You may be right, it may be the dying twitches. But what concerns me is the attitudinal stuff in this thread that says that Mana should be x, y, z when really most of us here know jack shit, and what that means in the longer term for relationships between the left and the Mana Movement. On the other hand, that’s probably just a more visible manifestation of what’s always been 🙁

                      (I also can’t believe I am having to advocate on this blog for people with literacy issues having the right to write).

                    • I’ve made another comment below about the literacy thing, but I’m with you on it. I’ve spent a good part of my working life translating legalese into plain English for working people. I wouldn’t have lasted a day if I’d patronised their educational failings or tried to be smug about the fancy words I knew that they didn’t. The same should apply here, in my opinion. Focus on the ideas, not the typos.

                    • weka

                      +1 thanks.

                • Bill

                  1. I hear that some people are saying that fairies exist.

                  2. Fairies exist.

                  Not really hard to spot how 1 is completely different to 2, or to understand that 1 requires no evidence for fairy existence whatsoever but that 2 does.

                  TRP wrote something akin to 1.

                  Trinder has written something akin to 2.

                  It seems Trinder reckons it’s fine for political info to be presented as 2 … but for it to wrapped in the expectations attached to 1. That, in my book, makes Trinder either a drooling loon or a loon screaming off in the distance.

                  If he had written a smart piece pointing to the power of belief over the power of info, I wouldn’t be viewing him as a drooling loon, hopefully fading into the distance. But he didn’t do that.

                  • weka

                    I don’t have a problem with you viewing him as a loon. He probably thinks the same of many here.

                    “Trinder has written something akin to 2.”

                    Except I assume you don’t believe in fairies. It changes if Trinder is telling the truth.

                    1. I hear that some people are saying that Key tried to get JC fired.

                    2. Key tried to get JC fired.

                    • Bill

                      Given that my comment referred to expectations around factual claims and rumours, any thoughts I have around the existence of fairies is utterly fucking irrelevant to the point being made.

                      Couching it in terms of JK and JC makes not one iota of difference to that point.

                    • weka

                      You version is based on an absolute falsehood, mines based on something that may or may not be true but is certainly possible. All the difference in the world.

                      (I’m guessing the main difference is you think Trinder is lying, whereas I have no idea if he is).

      • marty mars 16.1.2

        “where no verification or thought is required and where such ‘niceties’ sink below the fetid surface of a world comprising of nowt but a churning of senseless bullshit.”

        good description of the current truths put to us by MSM and politicians.

        the truth and proof are slippery tuna wiggling in water

        I saw the article and decided early on not to link to it in OM because I felt it had holes and would raise more questions than it answered – and it has – but I support Joe and what he has done.

        • Bill

          good description of the current truths put to us by MSM and politicians

          At which point, does one join in with the same meaningless bullshit, bearing in mind that there are some very loud voices out there that will drown you out in a flash? Or does one treat them with the contempt and derision they deserve while seeking to pull the bastards to account or reveal them?

          • marty mars

            Of course I agree with you – it’s just that if they ignore the contempt and derision and just keep doing what they do – when do we say enough!, when do we break them out of their complacency and make them see us. I totally agree that we want to, “pull the bastards to account”, totally agree.

    • miravox 16.2

      “but proof – nah that’s not how the game works anymore.”
      Well, not for statements from the Nact & Co. If it’s been said it must be true for stuff they put out.

      The expectations of the left are somewhat higher.

      • marty mars 16.2.1

        hmmm well I’ve heard the parties of the left and right lie and bullshit their way right through the system over the years. The expectations may be true of the left, maybe that’s why we are continually disappointed by the reality.

        • miravox

          I don’t disagree Marty.

          I think the public treat the left much more harshly when it’s caught it a lie. I think they expect as much from the right and in a perverse way, admire the gall. At least that appears to be the way things are in the circles I move in.

    • dave 16.3

      yeah all the John key lies from the election all with proof dirty politics all proven lolololo if mana news provided proof they would still be in full denial mode

  17. Neil 17

    If it is true, it will be truly explosive, given Keys past history of saying things when he doesn’t think anyone is listening, it could well be true. I wouldn’t put it past Key to say something like this, you’ve only got to look at how he reacted to Hagar’s book, calling him a screaming left wing conspirator.
    It would need some pretty solid evidence to back it up.
    I guess we will just have to wait & see how it plays out.

  18. Aaron 18

    The thing with this is that you don’t need a direct conspiracy to make things happen. All it takes is for Key sympathiser to get into a position of power at Mediaworks and the pressure starts to go on – What’s actually surprising is that it’s taken this long for it to happen.

    Probably Mike Hosking proving you can make a success of the 7pm slot while delivering zero percent real journalism has also made it easier for TV3 to think they could try something else as well.

    As for why every else making comments on this thread has such a definite view on this matter I can only guess – none of us can no anything for sure at this stage.

  19. dave 19

    its more than likely true from what we know from dirty politics ,it tick all the boxes for abuse of power corruption of the highest order the pm haveing a journalist fired for doing his job, i hope the opposition will question key and iam sure Campbell’s lawyers will take an interest.
    didn’t muldoon have journalist fired?

    • I would say it is highly unlikely based upon what we know of dirty politics. Key was the squeaky clean guy, getting underlings to do his dirty work. Key wouldn’t be on the phone asking for people to be fired. All he needs do is put his sympathisers in positions of power and let them do what they do naturally – Key wouldn’t have to do shit.

      Besides which “it is likely to be true” is completely different from the claim Joe is making who insists it is true and he doesn’t need to prove rather his detectors need to disprove it….which is stupid and backwards

  20. Murray Rawshark 20

    I think Joe Trinder should learn to write satire. This story, which I’m dubious about, could have been told far more effectively, and without any of the distractions about sources and truth. At the end of the day and when the race is run and all that stuff, what the hell does it matter anyway? FJK has already done far worse on many occasions. Being possibly innocent of this one doesn’t turn him into a good bloke, but some people are loving the chance to attack Mana. Again.

    • It’s not MANA that people should be attacking, it’s this dope Joe and his “na uh, you have to disprove me!” gibberish.

    • marty mars 20.2

      + 1

      yep key lies, lies and lies again and even when it is on the news and everyone is jumping and pumping – nothing, key slides out. This particular story is pure key – it smells for sure but the focus of some goes onto Mana – same as it ever was.

      • McFlock 20.2.1

        The tories slide out unchallenged from almost every lie.
        People on the left get challenged on every verifiable, provable truth we utter.

        This is one of the basic principles of whenever the disenfranchised fight the privileged, be it classwarfare or “identity politics”.

        So at best we have an apparent lefty refusing to provide evidence for a truth they uttered. At worst Trinder forgot the line about looking from pig to man and man to pig and not being able to tell the difference.

        If it’s true, tories will call it a lie. If it’s a lie, the tories will be more believable when they call it a lie. And the rest of us get dragged down by association – if Mana News get a decent scoop on wrongdoing by the tories, the first line the tories will defend themselves with will be “these are the people who previously toldsuch horrible lies and claimed to have proof”. Just like they do with KDC’s “moment of truth”.

        Thanks, Mana News /sarc

        • weka

          And how is it that Mana owe the left something at this point?

          • McFlock

            Never said they did.
            Just that the tories will damn (as complicit in a lie) anyone on the left who can be vaguely associated with Mana News.

            And the msm will unquestioningly report the tory line.

            • weka

              So? You’d have made more sense without the /sarc. Either it matters what Mana News does, or it doesn’t. Which is it?

              • McFlock

                Yes, it matters.
                No, that doesn’t mean Mana “owe the left something”.

                Someone leaving a turd on my doorstep doesn’t me they owe me a damned thing.

                • weka

                  And again, there’s the idea that Mana News has done something to you (or the left).

                  • McFlock

                    They have done something that has affected the left by providing ammunition for the tories. They don’t exist in their own isolated universe.

                    • weka

                      Of course, but does the irony really escape you of the ‘left’ expecting better behaviour of Mana after what happened at the last election?

                    • McFlock

                      What happened, according to you?

                      Especially as winning an election apparently might not be an objective of Mana?

                    • weka

                      “Especially as winning an election apparently might not be an objective of Mana?”

                      According to you.

                      And you know very well what I’m referring to about last election.

                      Are we at the disingenuous stage of the conversation then and don’t need to continure? I’m happy to be explaining my thinking, but can’t be bothered with the sarc and smartarsery when people appear to need to be communicating better not worse.

                    • McFlock

                      “Especially as winning an election apparently might not be an objective of Mana?”

                      According to you.

                      No, according to you.

                      No, I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to. Some people here reckon Davis ran an effective campaign. Some mana folk seem to think winning the seat involved some sort of dirty trick, or that Hone deserved everyone else on the left and Labour in particular to just stand aside.

                      Frankly, I don’t know of anything that struck me as a betrayal. Politics involves losing elections – I’ve had my own small experience of that. It hurts, but you get up and get over it. If you know of an instance of actual sabotage of mana by the left, rather than competition on an even keel, maybe then I’d see why they should feel hard done by, and therefore why they’d be happy to make life difficult for everyone else.

                    • weka

                      That link doesn’t show me saying that Mana don’t want to win elections. Like I said, you’re the one running that line.

                      No, I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to. Some people here reckon Davis ran an effective campaign. Some mana folk seem to think winning the seat involved some sort of dirty trick, or that Hone deserved everyone else on the left and Labour in particular to just stand aside.

                      Frankly, I don’t know of anything that struck me as a betrayal. Politics involves losing elections – I’ve had my own small experience of that. It hurts, but you get up and get over it. If you know of an instance of actual sabotage of mana by the left, rather than competition on an even keel, maybe then I’d see why they should feel hard done by, and therefore why they’d be happy to make life difficult for everyone else.

                      Right, but you do know how some Mana people feel about that right?

                      Reasons I wouldn’t call it an even keel (assuming you mean level playing field?),

                      Mana are representing some of the poorest people in the country. That’s going to affect things throughout the organisation despite KDC’s injection of cash for a relatively short period of time (and do we even know what it was?).

                      The mistreatment of Māori voters at booths.

                      Racism, which just make everything that much harder.

                      Racism in the MSM, who still largely don’t know how to report Māori news or current affairs.

                      I don’t see democracy as the being the people with the best PR skills get to win. I see it as an attempt to represent all people. The left should be working towards that, not scrabbling for the biggest piece of the pie at the expense of others.

                      “therefore why they’d be happy to make life difficult for everyone else.”

                      That’s your interpretation. I can see how some in Mana might not feel an obligation to play the game the way the rest of the left want, but that’s doesn’t follow that they’re happy to make things difficult for everyone else.

                    • McFlock

                      That link was you saying that my line about politics being about growing support might not be correct from Mana’s perspective. If a party cannot get elected, but does not wish to grow support and prefers to just preach to the converted, how can they have an objective of getting elected?

                      As for the rest:
                      Davis had an advantage over Harawira because poverty in TTT, racism, and the MSM?

                      How is that the fault of the other left wing parties, even if it’s true?

        • marty mars

          your queensbury rules don’t apply when only one side follows them

          and all these lines the tories will use – they already use them!!! They don’t need “these are the people who previously…” because they lie continuously anyway and even when caught they lie to get out of it. So many tmes the left have thought ‘this is the one that will get them’ and every time nah slide away time.

          oh look Mana aren’t in Parliament and they will still lose the next election for the left ffs it is wake up time.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            McFlock is right: a double standard applies.

            • weka

              that might be Trinder’s point too.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                If so, he hasn’t made it very well.

                • weka

                  Maybe he’s not talking to you.

                  • McFlock

                    Maybe he forgets that when he writes articles for publication, other people can read it, or report it without perhaps repeating the subtleties that were intended to be transmitted to the faithful.

                    • weka

                      or maybe he just doesn’t care (which seems to be what he is saying).

                    • McFlock

                      Politics is a funny game for him to be in, then.

                    • weka

                      How so? Because he doesn’t play by a certain set of rules?

                    • McFlock

                      No, because politics is about substantially increasing your following, not preaching to the converted while alienating outsiders.

                    • weka

                      “No, because politics is about substantially increasing your following, not preaching to the converted while alienating outsiders.”

                      To be honest, I don’t think either of us are in any position to know what’s best for Mana. Your statement is about how you think politics is done successfully, but is predicated on ideas about what success is as well as how it happens. Bear in mind that Mana just played that game for quite some time, and look what happened. They have very little in the public domain that you and I access that tells us what is really going on for them, what works for them, what they want to achieve. We get snippets, but nothign close to the detail or understanding we might have of other parties. Bet it looks different from the marae.

                    • McFlock

                      Maybe this is Trinder’s memo that he’s given up on Mana getting elected and will just piss in the pool from now on.

                      In which case, I repeat “thanks, Mana News”.

                    • weka

                      ok McFlock, ignore what I just said, and keep on with thinking you know what’s best for Mana (and presumably radical Māori).

                    • McFlock

                      yes, because I’ve been totally talking about what’s best for Mana and Maori. /sarc

                      So right back atcha.

                      Maybe a left wing and registered-with-the-electoral-commission political party doesn’t want to get elected. Well, good for them.

                      The point remains that if they start lying as bad as the tories, everyone gets tarred with that brush.

                    • weka

                      “Maybe this is Trinder’s memo that he’s given up on Mana getting elected and will just piss in the pool from now on.”

                      Maybe. Or maybe he sees it differently. Would you be interested if he did?

                      “yes, because I’ve been totally talking about what’s best for Mana and Maori. /sarc”

                      “Maybe a left wing and registered-with-the-electoral-commission political party doesn’t want to get elected. Well, good for them.”

                      I don’t believe you.

                      “The point remains that if they start lying as bad as the tories, everyone gets tarred with that brush.”

                      Yes, but why should they care if the left gets tarred with that brush? That’s not a rhetorical question.

                    • McFlock

                      I’d be not just interested, I’d be gobsmacked.

                      And actually, I do mean “good for them”. If they don’t want to get elected, it opens the field for people who do. Unless they also decide to do things that can be then used against people who do want to get elected. In which case screw them.

                      Yes, but why should they care if the left gets tarred with that brush? That’s not a rhetorical question.
                      Because in a democratic society, the only way system change happens is to persuade people to vote for you or for policies that matter. If Mana now don’t want to get elected, but are also happy to damage the reputations of parties that do want to get elected, then that leaves the tories in charge. No change.

                      Which makes me wonder whether you believe Mana actually want change, or that they just want to say “I told you so” from the vantage point of a deckchair as the ship sinks.

          • McFlock

            The problem isn’t that one side uses them.
            The problem is that only one side has a foul called by the msm when that side deviates from queensbury rules. And that side isn’t the tories.

            Look at the “moment of truth”. Not as much of a fizzer as the public dialogue suggests, but labelled as such because it wasn’t good enough. Now imagine what the dialogue would be if substantial claims in it were false. Because that’s the path that Trinder seems to be going down.

            • weka

              If you assume that Trinder’s claims are false. If you assume they true, then his tactics look off, but not completely outside the realms of reasonable. See my example below of women who’ve been raped naming their rapist publicly because they have no other avenues for justice.

              Assuming Trinder is telling the truth*, I don’t particularly approve of what he is doing. But it’s interesting seeing how many people are assuming he is lying, and/or that there is nothing useful about what he is doing/he is downright wrong in his approach, as if he should be playing by other people’s rules (cf to my point about guerilla warfare).

              *for the sake of argument. Myself I can’t see anything that suggests he is lying, but he could be. Or someone could be lying to him.

              • McFlock

                The was in reply to Marty’s “queensbury rules” comment, which I assume means making shit up because the tories do, too.

                But having read some on the comments on the MN page, I think that Trinder’s response seems a bit ott for someone who is confident in the truth of their story.

                • That assumption is incorrect. One of the things we know about politics is that it has got to be a multi pronged and multi level of attack to build the perception that we know to be true. Part of that could be called ‘guerrilla tactics’ where non-usual modes are employed. I see this article in that bracket. When fringe players do it then all the majors can tut tut and enjoy the discomfort created for their political enemies. A bit like a placard at a gnat function. Far from hurting the left it actually strengthens the left because it creates confidence imo. It doessn’t give the gnats more ammunition or get out of jail cards because they don’t care about, a Mana and b the left – they care what the polls say and nobody s interested in Mana or the issue so the polls will say zip, the gnats will go ho hum and the only people getting worked up are lefties who somehow think they’ve been sullied because “where is the PROOF”. I think that is a waste of time for the left.

                  • McFlock

                    So, in this case, what is the “non-usual mode” that has been used here?

                    Making stories up?
                    Repeating an unsubstantiated claim as a categorical truth?
                    Holding on to proof as some kind of point (what point)?

                    And how can this particular “non-usual mode” strengthen the left while also being a waste of time for the left?

                    • weka

                      “Making stories up?”

                      None of us here know if the story is made up or not.

                      “Repeating an unsubstantiated claim as a categorical truth?”

                      Is there any situation when this is valid?

                      “Holding on to proof as some kind of point (what point)?”

                      What makes you think it’s that rather than what Trinder said about protecting sources?

                    • McFlock

                      Here’s the thing: unless it can be substantiated, it’s worse than useless. Remember the “I’ll have the tape shortly” thing about Key and the GCSB? Or anything Garner says?

                      It’ll become just another example the nats use to say the left is just as full of lies as the tories are, even if it’s true. Because we will never know it’s true.

                      If Trinder really is “protecting sources” (actually, he only refers to “my source”, which flies it back to rumour), then he’s a damned fool – if Key made that phone call, then Key knows where he was when he made it, so he has a very good idea of who leaked it (someone in the room with either party, or one of the receptionists if they can conference call). Especially as it only reports key’s side of the conversation. Which also opens the possibility that Key was talking about someone else entirely unless Trinder’s source was party to both sides of the conversation.

                      Easy enough to cull the likely suspects.

                    • weka

                      “Here’s the thing: unless it can be substantiated, it’s worse than useless. Remember the “I’ll have the tape shortly” thing about Key and the GCSB? Or anything Garner says?”

                      Yep, and in general I completely agree with you.

                      “It’ll become just another example the nats use to say the left is just as full of lies as the tories are, even if it’s true. Because we will never know it’s true.”

                      That just takes us back to the assumption that Mana’s objectives and the left’s are the same. My point throughout this is that we are often really bad at understanding what Māori want, so why should it be any different now? That’s leaving aside what Mana is and how it represents at a wider level, and I do think that there are fair criticisms to be made if one views Mana solely as a mainstream political party. I just don’t think that’s the whole story and it would serve the left better to understand more deeply what is going on with Mana rather than just condemning them from the left’s perspecitve. For them I’m guessing it’s the same old stuff.

                      Key doesn’t have to be the only person that the ‘leaker’ needs to be protected from. Plus someone on twitter commented you hear a lot of things in the Koru lounge.

                      And maybe the person heard more of the conversation than the bit that Trinder reported, and that extra bit included better context. It’s all speculation, but I think we can speculate in any direction.

                    • McFlock

                      If speculation in any direction is equally valid, then the piece has added zero knowledge about Key or the decisions regarding Campbell live.

                    • It’s only a waste of time for the left if they focus on it, so don’t.

                    • McFlock

                      So ignoring a possible lie by an associated party (if only associated via the msm) can strengthen the left?

                      That leads to an obvious hypocrisy the next time anyone on the left demands the tories substantiate their own outlandish claims: ‘why didn’t you demand proof when mana made shit up about us’, that sort of thing.

                      Yeah, nah. Put up or shut up springs to mind. The rumour mongering adds nothing to the issue other than allegations of muckraking and fabrication.

  21. Grantoc 21

    Trinder is living in a fantasy world.

    If he wants to be taken seriously he’ll put up the evidence.

    To say that Mana news doesn’t have to substantiate anything invites ridicule. I guess Trinder is hoping that they’ll get sued, thereby providing a modicum of credibility to his fantasy. But that won’t happen; he and Mana news will just be ignored, except by those who desperately want this to be explained by such a conspiracy theory.

    The truth is probably as stated; Campbell live is not producing the commercial results required by the company. End of story – despite the very good arguments for retaining the show on the basis of honest and gutsy journalism. But, lets wait for due process to unfold, the show may yet be retained (in some form at least), following the consultation process.

    • Lanthanide 21.1

      I think it’s likely John’ll be offered some sort of show on TV3 in some capacity; whether he takes it up is a different matter.

    • freedom 21.2

      “Campbell live is not producing the commercial results required by the company.”

      Won’t alter the landscape much, but according to a statement from Campbell Live,
      the show runs at a profit.

    • weka 21.3

      “If he wants to be taken seriously he’ll put up the evidence.”

      I think you are missing the point He doesn’t want credibility, he’s stated that openly. So what does that leave? Would be nice of more people thought this through.

  22. Clemgeopin 22

    The two claims made by Joe Trinder (Key wanting Campbell sacked and Burger King threatening to withdraw ads due to Zero Hour contract stories) are quite explosive. If untrue, then, why doesn’t,
    [1] Key deny the claim and take a defamatory action?
    [2] Burger King issue a statement stating that no such email was sent and take defamatory action?

    • Lanthanide 22.1

      Because it’s easier just to ignore the claims than respond to them.

    • Because it is so obviously rubbish and fabricated that no-one would be bothered to claim defamation. The holes in the story are so big and obvious the no-one, apart from a few people that don’t seem to have thought it through (“BK could proe me wrong by releasing the email they never sent me” really? Come on) could ever take it seriously.

      I tell you what though – joe sent me email saying this is completely bullshit. Prove me wrong. Joe could prove me wrong by releasing the email….so how full of shit that is?

  23. Clemgeopin 23

    ” it is so obviously rubbish and fabricated”

    You know that for sure?

    • Given his complete failure to substantiate his claims and his complete reversal of the burden of proof speak pretty clearly to the fact there is no evidence to this outside hearsay. Can I know for sure, no. But I can sure a shit call it as bullshit.

  24. Sacha 24

    Trinder claims John Key appointed Weldon as CEO of (private company) Mediaworks. That’s stupid enough on its own for me to not accept any of his other reckons without evidence.

    We don’t need some weird conspiracy to explain what’s going on here – it’s a logical outcome of legislating our media to run as a market. The cure is a law change, not tinfoil.

    • weka 24.1

      “Trinder claims John Key appointed Weldon as CEO of (private company) Mediaworks. That’s stupid enough on its own for me to not accept any of his other reckons without evidence.”

      I find it entirely credible as a theory. Allowing for differences in use of language (change ‘appointed’ to ‘manipulated the appointment), how is it impossible that Key used his influence to get the CEO he wanted?

      • Sacha 24.1.1

        If someone believes appointed means the same as influenced, then I have no use for any other words they may utter.

        • weka

          Better stop reading here then. That’s a level of pedantry that obliterates anyone without a formal education in grammar and syntax.

          See I read Trinder’s comment, and assumed that everyone reading knows that Key doesn’t work for Mediaworks and can’t literally appoint anyone there, but equally as obviously has the kind of power and influence that could get his man into the position.

          It’s pretty obvious that Trinder isn’t a master of literacy online. Writing off someone’s political point because they don’t use English in a strictly formal way is elitist. There are ways to criticise what Trinder has done without being that.

          btw, if Trinder is telling the truth, it’s doesn’t require a conspiracy. That’s another red herring, and ‘conspiracy theory’ is being used as an inaccurate slur. All that is required is DP and the neoliberal boys network to operate as it always does.

          • rawshark-yeshe

            +100 weka

          • Sacha

            Trinder’s lack of writing skills wasn’t obvious to me. Never read him before. I’m very relaxed about spelling and grammar, but not about mis-using words. Why should I bother with somebody who is that poor at explaining themselves? His ‘political point’ is severely undermined by his refusal to pony up with any evidence. I’d be feeling more patient if he had.

            • weka

              “Why should I bother with somebody who is that poor at explaining themselves? ”

              No reason, but you will miss out on a lot of valid perspectives. Not everyone expresses themselves in perfect ways, but that doesn’t mean they’re not worth reading/listening to.

              • Sacha

                Using words to mean their common meaning is hardly ‘perfection’. I am very pragmatic about communication but ringing a frog when you really want to discombobulate a passing preacher is a tad handbag, wouldn’t you say?

                • weka

                  lolz, no, we can agree to disagree on this one. For me the communication is what’s important not the literalness of one word’s meaning and I understood pretty well what he meant.

                  • The lost sheep

                    “communication is what’s important not the literalness of one word’s meaning”

                    i.e. ‘Conspiracy Theory’ means ‘Truth’, and ‘meaning’ is synonymous with ‘belief’.

                    No need to be any more exact about this case than that. sarc.

                    • weka

                      What? Where’s the conspiracy theory? Or belief?

                    • The lost sheep

                      “All that is required is DP and the neoliberal boys network to operate as it always does.”

                      A group of people plotting to influence events in a harmful / evil manner.
                      That would be a conspiracy by my Oxford?

                      “I find it entirely credible as a theory”
                      Er, and that’s a theory?

                    • weka

                      Key using his normal networks to achieve his normal political objectives isn’t conspiring in the way you mean. Calling it a conspiracy theory is just a way of undermining an idea instead actually critiquing it.

                      “I find it entirely credible as a theory”
                      Er, and that’s a theory?

                      Yes, because there is no evidence, it’s theoretical. Doesn’t make it a conspiracy theory for the reasons above.

                    • The lost sheep

                      Weka, Trinders article stated
                      “The prime minister had insidiously conspired with Mark Weldon”
                      and you posted
                      “I’m willing to believe Trinder on this, or the possibility it’s true.

                      I thought we weren’t getting too hung up on ‘literal meanings’, so what’s the issue with me calling it a conspiracy in the way Trinder states and you agree with and I mean?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Weka, theories propose explanations for evidence or they aren’t theories: without the evidence, there’s nothing to theorise about.

                      Here’s a theory: the National Party deliberately feeds false information to the left, and Trinder is their unwitting dupe.

                    • The lost sheep

                      That is only if you insist on adhering to so called ‘conventional’ forms of logic OAB.

                      In the realm of Conspiracy Theory, the less so called ‘evidence’ available to support a theory, the more likely it is that ‘believers’ will accept the ‘theory’ as a ‘different trooth’, on the ‘logical’ basis that commonly understood evidence is self evidently wrong because the masses are brainwashed idiots.
                      Thus the lack of ‘evidence’ actually increases the ability to produce valid explanations of events.

                      An endless source of fun at a price all can afford.

  25. weka 25

    Some posts on the article that have been deleted,


    A point from Trinder about all these people suddenly concerned about Mana News’ reputation and credibility who’ve never read the site before.

    • marty mars 25.1

      So true that – I wonder about some of the motivations of some who hardly ever read Mana News and now have come out of the woodwork with their righteous proofing – if I was paranoid I’d say some are going into payback – or maybe just putting the boot in because the opportunity is there – oh look how arrrwful that Mana Movement is – such ungrateful poos after all the ‘respect’ we gave them, look they are nothing but losers haw haw haw – and that’s just the so called lefties

  26. Tracey 26

    If it was a phone conversation surely a witness can only verify one of the parties?

    • weka 26.1

      depends what level of evidence you want I suppose.

      • rawshark-yeshe 26.1.1

        Key ( to his travelling secretary/minder): “Get me Mark Weldon please”.

        Key: “Hi Mark etc etc etc etc …. ”

        all kinds of possibilities ?

  27. Ashoka's Hell 27

    Hey Campbell, all the best and thank you. So you were fired for being an investigative journalist (i.e. just doing your job)!

    “If those in charge of our society – politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television – can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves.”

    Howard Zinn

  28. Charles 28

    Anyone should be able to tell the claim is satire – particularly sharp satire. Campbell is a left-wing anything? Laughable. That John Key would call someone not left-wing a left-wing anything is probable, also laughable, since John Key has no time to think of anyone but himself, or his mates. Mana News equally satirical claim that they “don’t write balanced articles” is likely, also laughble, since no media outlet writes balanced articles. Mana News make themselves the news, just like Campbell has made himself his own story, and do it in the style of a angry rockband crowd-surfing fans they despise. I recognise the style of sentiment, do you?

    Meanwhile, back in the real world… if the effort to push a person off a cliff makes no sound, did anyone actually fall? And if the person who pushes also owns the ambulance at the bottom of the same cliff, was any crime committed?

    • rawshark-yeshe 28.1

      u must enjoy the sound of one hand crapping ? and no, it’s not a typo @Charles.

    • Bill 28.2


    • Ashoka's Hell 28.3

      Nice timing @ Charles,… spooky

      You see my friend its a form of asymmetric warfare. Except in this case the “balance” of the news it’s so far right (across MSM) that it makes freedom of choice or thought laughable.

      NZ Inc has no real left frame of reference…. its been removed, RNZ/TVNZ is practically shot.

      If you think the days are that dark (which I suspect your right – excuse the pun) and people are pushed off the cliff either economically, socially, mentally or even physically (or all of the above) you will have to assume no one is watching or that no one was told? You have to assume that…

      Are you watching Charles…

      I’m a free man too Charles and I think their are more and more people happy to jump off the cliff into the abyss.

      Heres one for you:

      If Marcel Marceau gets hit by a tree in a forest, does anyone hear?

      Go the base jumpers

  29. weka 29

    New post from Trinder

    To skeptics of the Campbell Live conversation

    avatr Mana News editor Joe Trinder


    Yesterday I was accused of being a left wing conspiracy theorist loony for not revealing my sources on who overheard the John Campbell conversation. The critics attempted to put Mana News on a pedestal and make comments like “You have let Mana down and the left down”. First off the left is intolerant of Mana Movement- Labour, Greens and NZ First asked its supporters to strategically vote against Hone in the last elections. This honourable left wing you’re talking about is a complete mystery to many within Mana.

    Yesterday was the critics first day they ever discovered the Mana News. Many confessed how genuinely concerned they were about this article and the integrity of Mana News. The feedback was disingenuous because its the first day the critics ever read one of our articles. and the critics always have an opportunity to prove us wrong.

    Mana News doesn’t reveal its sources we protect them, we aren’t professional journalists just amateur bloggers. We care little for reputation or working to a journalist’s code of ethics we bend the rules. We don’t write balanced fair articles we ruthlessly expose the corruption in the National government. Our objective was to put the seed of doubt to the public that the National government is tampering with the media and we achieved that.

    Followed by some stuff about gtiso that seems strange to me, but maybe tiso was just the most visible critic that Trinder could use to prove a point.


    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 29.1

      Our objective was to put the seed of doubt to the public that the National government is tampering with the media and we achieved that.

      Speaks volumes.

      And Trinder: learn to punctuate.

    • Bill 29.2

      When digging yourself into a hole….

    • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 29.3

      I read the rest of that page and the thing I am thinking about over and over again is what a “pedal stool” looks like and whether it can be used like a bicycle.

      • Colonial Rawshark 29.3.1

        Maybe it’s a kind of chair you sit on to press the pedals of a piano.

        It’s disappointing that Mana News has decided to destroy its own credibility and then voluntarily bomb the remaining rubble of that credibility.

        People are hungry for trustworthy, accurate, principled left wing news, IMO. I doubt that they want some kind of Fox News for the Left, however. The gap remains.

        • weka

          Whereas I think that supposed left wing commenters on a left wing blogsite who think that literacy is worthy of ridicule deserve what they are getting, which as far as I can tell is contempt.

          It’s gobsmacking the number of people here who think that Mana and Mana News should do what is right for the left, all things considered.

          • Bill

            Not buying into this ‘Mana bashing’ bullshit.

            The fact remains that if non-opinion pieces are written, then either shit is made up or facts are presented.

            In my former activist incarnation that was way to the left of Mana or who-ever, when I wrote stuff, I didn’t make shit up. If people want to argue that it’s fine to make up shit, then I really want to hear the argument… before pushing them into the hole that’s waiting for them and picking up my shovel.

            • weka

              I have no idea if Trinder made shit up or not, so I can’t really respond to that part of your comment. I certainly haven’t been arguing that it’s ok to make shit up, and don’t know why you’ve brought that up in a reply to me.

              As for Mana bashing, I’ve said a few times now I’m more interested in people’s responses than what Trinder has done. Ridiculing someone for their literacy is pretty naff.

              If you are focussed on the ‘he made shit up’ thing, that actually doesn’t preclude there also being people here who think they know what’s best for Mana when they’re projecting their own stuff about the left onto them. It’s a bit rich given what what happened to Mana at the last election (and all the other stuff).

              • Bill

                Really!? You have no idea? Not an inkling? The guy claims to present facts and then claims there is no need for him to back up his claims. And he might not be making shit up?

                Shades of the ‘Golden Tablets’ there, but sure, okay.

                • weka

                  Or course he might be making things up. Or he might not. If you think I’ve been saying he’s telling the truth you really haven’t been paying attention to what I’ve been writing.

                  Don’t know what Golden Tablets are.

                  • McFlock

                    Don’t know what Golden Tablets are.

                    ISTR it’s a reference to one of the prophetic religions (Latter Day Saints?) where the founding prophet dictated the holy text from a set of golden tablets given him by an angel.

                    “Dictated” from the tablets, because only the founder was allowed to see the tablets. Basically, all faith no evidence. Fair enough for religion if you’re in to that sort of thing, but a bit shit when you’re making allegations of political collusion.

          • Colonial Rawshark

            Whereas I think that supposed left wing commenters on a left wing blogsite who think that literacy is worthy of ridicule deserve what they are getting, which as far as I can tell is contempt.

            Self styled news editors should be more literate, more talented at prose and more respectful of the truth than ordinary bloggers.

            Don’t you think.

            • weka

              No. I think that the group that is trying to work for the betterment of disenfranchised Māori and others should work according to its own values. Trinder has already explained he is a blogger not a journalist. He can write any way he wants, and I have no idea why he writes the way he does (although check out some of lprent’s grammar some time and try telling him that he’s not up to scratch) but the snobbery around literacy in this thread is not improving the left’s credibility.


              • Bill

                Phil Ure…

                On your other point, I guess any backing up of facts has no place in the post modernist vat of ‘shit we make up’ to make sense(lessness) of the world, one another and events.

                • weka

                  As far as I know (am happy to be corrected) pu doesn’t have literacy issues, and isn’t overworked and thus not editing his comments (which is my guess about Lynn). Pu intentionally writes in a style that a significant number of people have trouble reading. I have no problem with that at all when he does it on his own blog, but when he does it here and it affects communication, then yeah, it’s a problem. I’d like to see the argument made that Trinder’s writing style affects people’s understanding of what he is trying to communicate.

                  “On your other point, I guess any backing up of facts has no place in the post modernist vat of ‘shit we make up’ to make sense(lessness) of the world, one another and events.”

                  I only made one point (it was all about literacy), so I have no idea what you are talking about. I hope you’re not ascribing something to me that I didn’t say (I don’t think making shit up is ok, so again, why bring that up with me?).

                  • Bill

                    So far on this thread you have brought up an absence of demands for evidence; comparing TRP post to Trinder’s, even though the two don’t bear comparison. Made some references to people indulging in Mana bashing and Maori bashing , made some (to me) strange comment on world perspectives that would apparently allow for some to not bother supplying basic levels of verification on claims being made, compared the trustworthiness of Trinder and Peters, commented on KDC, suggested that what Trinder has written is A-Ok because…well, I got lost on that point…

                    …and so, so much more besides.

                    I get that one point or another has more or less prominence depending on what segment of the thread is being read, though on a big picture reading, they don’t exist in silos and tend to feed into one another on various levels.

                    • weka

                      You said ‘on your other point’. I have no idea what point you are referring to, and giving me synopsis of what you think are all the things I’ve been saying in this thread doesn’t narrow it down.

                      “suggested that what Trinder has written is A-Ok because”

                      How about you point to that one specifically?

                      btw, ‘bashing’ is your term, not mine. ‘Māori bashing’ is a loaded term that makes it harder to look at what might be happening here.

              • The real irony is a media spokesperson who can’t write properly and happily admits that what he does write can’t be trusted! It’s hard not to raise an eyebrow in those circumstances.

                But, I do agree with you about literacy in a general sense. And I think most commenters here also agree and are pretty relaxed about typos and grammatical clangers when they appear on the pages of TS. Most mistakes simply get ignored and its the ideas that get discussed, not the pedantic errors.

                • weka

                  Yes, which is why ridiculing Trinder over literacy in this context is really off. Have a go at his politics by all means, but don’t have a go at someone’s literacy as a way of undermining them because you don’t liek their politics (or behaviour).

                  “The real irony is a media spokesperson who can’t write properly and happily admits that what he does write can’t be trusted! It’s hard not to raise an eyebrow in those circumstances.”

                  It’s not ironic. Have you considered that Trinder might have actual literacy issues? And that Mana may not have a large pool of more acceptably literate people to draw on? And that literacy correctness might not be high on their list of concerns?

                  I don’t have a problem with eyebrow raising. I think there is something else going on here as well

                  • I have considered it. And it’s obviously the case that he does write poorly. But that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t articulate the views of mana or be taken any less seriously than any other party’s media wonks.

                    The real issue is credibility. He’s admitted that he cannot be trusted to write factually. Now, that really is an issue for mana. Is it credible to have a “news editor” who does not feel obliged to tell the truth?

                    I know it works for National, but have we lowered our standards that far?

                    • weka

                      “He’s admitted that he cannot be trusted to write factually”

                      Can you point to where exactly? I hadn’t interpreted it that way.

                    • “We care little for reputation or working to a journalist’s code of ethics we bend the rules. We don’t write balanced fair articles … “

                    • weka

                      Interesting. I don’t take that to mean he cannot be trusted to write factually, and having reread it a couple of times I think it’s still entirely possible he didn’t mean that. Which leaves us with why each of interpreted it differently.

                    • felix

                      Yeah I’m struggling to interpret that as meaning “not factual”.

                      I suppose it could be construed to mean that but in context it seems unlikely to me that he did mean that, and unless he actually says so I see no reason to assume that’s what he meant as it’s not the most obvious reading of it by any stretch.

                    • http://www.epmu.org.nz/journalist-code-of-ethics/

                      The first three words:

                      Respect for truth

                      If mana don’t feel obliged to have respect for truth (and all the the other ethical standards in the code) then my point is correct. They cannot be trusted to write factually.

                      Like it or not, Trinder has exposed mana as being untrustworthy. That doesn’t mean the overheard conversation didn’t happen, but it does mean that we can’t trust what they say, because they don’t think that ethical reporting applies to them. According to Trinder, anyway.

                      Frankly, Trinder should resign. Any other media person who made a statement that so obviously brings their organisation into disrepute would be sacked in a heartbeat.

                    • weka

                      But Trinder isn’t a journalist, he’s a blogger. He didn’t say he didn’t have respect for the truth, he said “We care little for reputation or working to a journalist’s code of ethics we bend the rules.”

                      I can tell you I don’t write with a journalist’s code of ethics in mind either. Does that mean I’m untrustworthy?

                    • “I can tell you I don’t write with a journalist’s code of ethics in mind either. Does that mean I’m untrustworthy?”

                      As a private individual shooting the breeze, no, it doesn’t mean you’re untrustworthy. The code of ethics clearly does not apply.

                      However, if you are the News Editor of a political party, yes, that makes you untrustworthy. And if you publicly insist your party is equally untrustworthy, then you are a liability as well.

                    • weka

                      You say he’s a News Editor of a political party, he says he’s not a journalist he’s a blogger. Who gets to decide?

                    • He decides. He calls himself the News Editor, so I’ve gone with how he styles himself.

                    • weka

                      that’s disingenuous TRP.

                    • Wha? How can it be disingenuous if it’s 100% correct? That’s literally what he calls himself. Check the link in the OP.

                      Ha! Even better, check the link you yourself provided! Mana News editor Joe Trinder, that’s what it says there too.


                    • weka

                      ffs, I’m pretty sure you’ve already read the bit where he says he’s not a journalist he’s a blogger. You can use the term ‘News Editor’ to mean what you want it to mean rather than what he wants it to mean, and then you have him in a box that suits you, but like I said, he doesn’t see himself that way.

                    • Sacha

                      “You can use the term ‘News Editor’ to mean what you want it to mean”

                      No, you really can’t. Language is a dance, but it does have some parameters. You don’t get to decide what words mean on your lonesome – that’s a social and historic process.

                      Those two words have had a well-defined and shared meaning for many decades. The first one especially. If someone wishes to cloak themselves with the phrase then they get all the implications and expectations, not just the extra credibility they may have been seeking.

                      Highly relevant though in a discussion about what “news” and “current affairs” has become. Just entertainment, the PM assures us.

                    • But he does see himself that way! Joe Trinder is the news editor of mana news, according to mana news news editor Joe Trinder.

                      Unless of course you’re a believer in the John Key theory of hats.

                    • felix


                      The first three words:

                      Respect for truth

                      If mana don’t feel obliged to have respect for truth (and all the the other ethical standards in the code) then my point is correct.

                      You’ve taken someone saying they’re not bound by a certain code, and you’ve interpreted that to mean that they reject everything in that code.

                      That could be the case, but I don’t think I’ll take it on your say-so.

                    • “You’ve taken someone saying they’re not bound by a certain code, and you’ve interpreted that to mean that they reject everything in that code.”

                      No, felix, no, I haven’t. A better summary might be that they appear to think they can pick and choose when they tell the truth and when they can “bend the rules”.

                    • felix

                      If mana don’t feel obliged to have respect for truth (and all the the other ethical standards in the code)

                      What am I missing here, TRP?

                      How is that not doing exactly what I described above?

                    • What are you missing? The meaning of the word ‘obliged’, I’m guessing.

                    • felix

                      No, that’s not it.

                      When I’m baking, I’m not obliged to follow Escoffier.

                      According to your logic, this means I can’t make cakes.

                    • Yeah, you win. I’m totally convinced. mana should be free to lie any time they want and that’s totally ethical, man. Sorry for any confusion. Good luck with the cakes.

                    • felix

                      I didn’t say I agreed with any of that.

                      Doesn’t mean I have to go along with your obvious bullshit as well though.

                      The dishonesty you’ve shown in the last few comments is just amazing considering the subject of the thread. You should probably think about how that reflects on “the left” 🙄

                    • Actually, bud, you’ve pretty much not said anything that makes any sense. But y’know, whatev’s.

                      Muffins ahoy!

                    • felix

                      It’s actually pretty straightforward, but you do need to be able to read what’s in front of you without leaping to conclusions.

                      I can see why you found it challenging.

  30. freedom 30

    In related news
    “John Key dismisses Campbell Live as entertainment”

    In an unexpected move, the reporter strategically refrains from
    seeking the PM’s opinion on what Seven Sharp is. sarc

    • repateet 30.1

      Had the reporter asked that question, the PM could have simply looked behind, down low, and asked “What do you reckon Mike?’

  31. Sable 31

    Irrespective of whether Key has a role in this or not its my opinion that this is most certainly an attempt to silence any voices raised in opposition to the right wing propaganda that is the MSM in NZ.

    Much the same thing happened to Derryn Hinch in Australia for rocking the righties boat.

  32. SMILIN 32

    It really is a sad day for NZ’s democracy that party politics can destroy the right to the truth or public inquiry thru the media
    It really shows just how little power we have as a voter to hold an enquiry into the policies of our govt and the possibility of totalitarian actions bythe PM.

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    There’s been a change in Myers Park. Down the steps from St. Kevin’s Arcade, past the grassy slopes, the children’s playground, the benches and that goat statue, there has been a transformation. The underpass for Mayoral Drive has gone from a barren, grey, concrete tunnel, to a place that thrums ...
    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    8 hours ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Tuesday, July 23

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Tuesday, July 23 are:Deep Dive: Penlink: where tolling rhetoric meets reality BusinessDesk-$$$’s Oliver LewisScoop: Te Pūkenga plans for regional polytechs leak out ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    8 hours ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Tuesday, July 23

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 23, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Health: Shane Reti announced the Board of Te Whatu Ora- Health New Zealand was being replaced with Commissioner Lester Levy ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    10 hours ago
  • HealthNZ and Luxon at cross purposes over budget blowout

    Health NZ warned the Government at the end of March that it was running over Budget. But the reasons it gave were very different to those offered by the Prime Minister yesterday. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon blamed the “botched merger” of the 20 District Health Boards (DHBs) to create Health ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    11 hours ago
  • 2500-3000 more healthcare staff expected to be fired, as Shane Reti blames Labour for a budget defic...

    Long ReadKey Summary: Although National increased the health budget by $1.4 billion in May, they used an old funding model to project health system costs, and never bothered to update their pre-election numbers. They were told during the Health Select Committees earlier in the year their budget amount was deficient, ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    12 hours ago
  • Might Kamala Harris be about to get a 'stardust' moment like Jacinda Ardern?

    As a momentous, historic weekend in US politics unfolded, analysts and commentators grasped for precedents and comparisons to help explain the significance and power of the choice Joe Biden had made. The 46th president had swept the Democratic party’s primaries but just over 100 days from the election had chosen ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    17 hours ago
  • Solutions Interview: Steven Hail on MMT & ecological economics

    TL;DR: I’m casting around for new ideas and ways of thinking about Aotearoa’s political economy to find a few solutions to our cascading and self-reinforcing housing, poverty and climate crises.Associate Professor runs an online masters degree in the economics of sustainability at Torrens University in Australia and is organising ...
    The KakaBy Steven Hail
    22 hours ago
  • Reported back

    The Finance and Expenditure Committee has reported back on National's Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. The bill sets up water for privatisation, and was introduced under urgency, then rammed through select committee with no time even for local councils to make a proper submission. Naturally, national's select committee ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Vandrad the Viking, Christopher Coombes, and Literary Archaeology

    Some years ago, I bought a book at Dunedin’s Regent Booksale for $1.50. As one does. Vandrad the Viking (1898), by J. Storer Clouston, is an obscure book these days – I cannot find a proper online review – but soon it was sitting on my shelf, gathering dust alongside ...
    1 day ago
  • Gordon Campbell On The Biden Withdrawal

    History is not on the side of the centre-left, when Democratic presidents fall behind in the polls and choose not to run for re-election. On both previous occasions in the past 75 years (Harry Truman in 1952, Lyndon Johnson in 1968) the Democrats proceeded to then lose the White House ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    1 day ago
  • Joe Biden's withdrawal puts the spotlight back on Kamala and the USA's complicated relatio...

    This is a free articleCoverageThis morning, US President Joe Biden announced his withdrawal from the Presidential race. And that is genuinely newsworthy. Thanks for your service, President Biden, and all the best to you and yours.However, the media in New Zealand, particularly the 1News nightly bulletin, has been breathlessly covering ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    1 day ago
  • Why we have to challenge our national fiscal assumptions

    A homeless person’s camp beside a blocked-off slipped damage walkway in Freeman’s Bay: we are chasing our tail on our worsening and inter-related housing, poverty and climate crises. Photo: Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Existential Crisis and Damaged Brains

    What has happened to it all?Crazy, some'd sayWhere is the life that I recognise?(Gone away)But I won't cry for yesterdayThere's an ordinary worldSomehow I have to findAnd as I try to make my wayTo the ordinary worldYesterday morning began as many others - what to write about today? I began ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 day ago
  • A speed limit is not a target, and yet…

    This is a guest post from longtime supporter Mr Plod, whose previous contributions include a proposal that Hamilton become New Zealand’s capital city, and that we should switch which side of the road we drive on. A recent Newsroom article, “Back to school for the Govt’s new speed limit policy“, ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    1 day ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Monday, July 22

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Monday, July 22 are:Today’s Must Read: Father and son live in a tent, and have done for four years, in a million ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Monday, July 22

    TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #29

    A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
    2 days ago
  • I'd like to share what I did this weekend

    This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    2 days ago
  • For the children – Why mere sentiment can be a misleading force in our lives, and lead to unex...

    National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Order image, ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    2 days ago
  • A friend in uncertain times

    Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • The Chaotic World of Male Diet Influencers

    Hi,We’ll get to the horrific world of male diet influencers (AKA Beefy Boys) shortly, but first you will be glad to know that since I sent out the Webworm explaining why the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was not a false flag operation, I’ve heard from a load of people ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    2 days ago
  • It's Starting To Look A Lot Like… Y2K

    Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Bernard’s Saturday Soliloquy for the week to July 20

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Pharmac Director, Climate Change Commissioner, Health NZ Directors – The latest to quit this m...

    Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    4 days ago
  • Flooding Housing Policy

    The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • A Voyage Among the Vandals: Accepted (Again!)

    As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Friday, July 19

    An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 19-July-2024

    Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Climate Wrap: A market-led plan for failure

    TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Tobacco First

    Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Trump’s Adopted Son.

    Waiting In The Wings: For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSA announced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to July 19

    TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent talking about the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s release of its first Emissions Reduction Plan;University of Otago Foreign Relations Professor and special guest Dr Karin von ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #29 2024

    Open access notables Improving global temperature datasets to better account for non-uniform warming, Calvert, Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society: To better account for spatial non-uniform trends in warming, a new GITD [global instrumental temperature dataset] was created that used maximum likelihood estimation (MLE) to combine the land surface ...
    5 days ago
  • We're back again! Join us for the weekly Hoon on YouTube Live

    Photo by Gabriel Crismariu on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Gut Reactions.

    Trump Writes His Own Story: Would the “mainstream” media even try to reflect the horrified reaction of the MAGA crowd to the pop-pop-pop of the would-be assassin’s rifle, and Trump going down? Could it even grasp the sheer elation of the rally-goers seeing their champion rise up and punch the air, still alive, ...
    5 days ago
  • Dodging Bullets.

    Fight! Fight! Fight! Had the assassin’s bullet found its mark and killed Donald Trump, America’s descent into widespread and murderous violence – possibly spiralling-down into civil war – would have been immediate and quite possibly irreparable. The American Republic, upon whose survival liberty and democracy continue to depend, is certainly not ...
    5 days ago
  • 'Corruption First' Strikes Again

    There comes a point in all our lives when we must stop to say, “Enough is enough. We know what’s happening. We are not as stupid or as ignorant as you believe us to be. And making policies that kill or harm our people is not acceptable, Ministers.”Plausible deniability has ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:The inside stories of KiwiRail’s iRex debacle, Westport’s perma-delayed flood scheme and Christchurch’s post-quake sewer rebuild, which assumed no population growth, show just how deeply sceptical senior officials in Treasury, the Ministry of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • What's that Jack Black?

    Ah-rah, deeSoo-guh-goo-gee-goo-geeGoo-guh fli-goo gee-gooGuh fli-goo, ga-goo-buh-deeOoh, guh-goo-beeOoh-guh-guh-bee-guh-guh-beeFli-goo gee-gooA-fliguh woo-wa mama Lucifer!I’m about ready to move on, how about you?Not from the shooting, that’s bad and we definitely shouldn’t have that. But the rehabilitation of Donald J Trump? The deification of Saint Donald? As the Great Unifier?Gimme a bucket.https://yellowscene.com/2024/04/07/trump-as-jesus/Just to re-iterate, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • June 2024: Earth’s 13th-consecutive warmest month on record

    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters and Bob Henson June 2024 was Earth’s warmest June since global record-keeping began in 1850 and was the planet’s 13th consecutive warmest month on record, NOAA’s National Centers for Environmental Information, or NCEI, reported July 12. As opposed to being focused in ...
    5 days ago
  • Connecting the dots and filling the gaps in our bike network

    This is a guest post by Shaun Baker on the importance of filling the gaps in our cycling networks. It originally appeared on his blog Multimodal Adventures, and is re-posted here with kind permission. In our towns and cities in Aotearoa New Zealand, there are areas in our cycling networks ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    5 days ago
  • Webworm Down Under Photos!

    Hi,I wanted to share a few thoughts and photos from the Webworm popup and Tickled screening we held in Auckland, New Zealand last weekend.In short — it was a blast. I mean, I had a blast and I hope any of you that came also had a blast.An old friend ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 6:30 am on Thursday, July 18 are:News: Christchurch's sewer systems block further housing developments RNZ’s Niva ChittockAnalysis: Interislander: Treasury, MoT officials' mistrust of KiwiRail led ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Thursday, July 18

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 18, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Verbatim: Climate Change Minister Simon Watts held a news conference in Auckland to release the Government’s Emissions Reduction Plan, including ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The politics of managed retreat

    Climate change deniers are now challenging the Government over a key climate change adaptation policy. That begs the question of whether New Zealand First will then support Government moves to implement processes to deal with a managed retreat for properties in danger of flooding because of sea level rise and ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Some changes are coming

    Warm welcome again to those who are here. The Mountain Tui substack was officially started on the 2nd of July. I wrote about what led me here on this post. Since then, it’s been a learning to navigate the platform, get to meet those in the community, and basically be ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    6 days ago
  • About fucking time

    The US Supreme Court has been rogue for years, with openly corrupt judges making the law up as they go to suit themselves, their billionaire buyers, and the Republican Party. But now, in the wake of them granting a licence for tyranny, President Biden is actually going to try and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: False accounting and wishful thinking

    National released their draft 2026-2030 Emissions Reduction Plan today. The plan is required under the Zero Carbon Act, and must set out policies and strategies to meet the relevant emissions budget. Having cancelled all Labour's actually effective climate change policies and crashed the carbon price, National was always going to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The Enemies Of Sunshine And Space.

    Our Houses? The Urban Density debate is a horrible combination of intergenerational avarice and envy, fuelled by the grim certainty that none of the generations coming up after them will ever have it as good as the Boomers. To say that this situation rankles among those born after 1965 is to ...
    6 days ago
  • Still the 5 Eyes Achilles Heel?

    The National Cyber Security Centre (NZSC), a unit in the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) dedicated to cyber-security, has released a Review of its response to the 2021 email hacking of NZ members of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China (IPAC, … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago
  • Britain's Devastating Electoral Slip.

    Slip-Sliding Away: Labour may now enjoy a dominant position in Britain’s political landscape, but only by virtue of not being swallowed by it.THE BRITISH LABOUR PARTY’S “landslide victory” is nothing of the sort. As most people understand the term, a landslide election victory is one in which the incumbent government, or ...
    6 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on why right wingers think all governments (including their own) are incompetent

    Since open denial of climate change is no longer a viable political option, denial now comes in disguise. The release this week of the coalition government’s ‘draft emissions reductions plan” shows that the Luxon government is refusing to see the need to cut emissions at source. Instead, it proposes to ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy this morning are:Chris Penk is set to roll back building standards for insulation that had only just been put in place, and which had been estimated to save 40% from power costs, after builders ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Open Letter to Pharmac

    All this talk of getting oldIt's getting me down, my loveLike a cat in a bag, waiting to drownThis time I'm coming downAnd I hope you're thinking of meAs you lay down on your sideNow the drugs don't workThey just make you worse but I know I'll see your face ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • A blanket of misinformation

    Two old sayings have been on my mind lately. The first is: “The pen is mightier than the sword”, describing the power of language and communication to help or to harm. The other, which captures the speed with which falsehoods can become ingrained and hard to undo, is: “A lie can ...
    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day to 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 17 are:Scoop: Government considers rolling back home insulation standards RNZ’s Eloise GibsonNews: Government plans tree-planting frenzy as report shows NZ no longer ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Wednesday, July 17

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Wednesday, July 17 , the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:Simon Watts released the Government’s draft Emissions Reduction Plan (ERP), which included proposed changes to the Emissions Trading Scheme ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • “Shhhh” – National's 3 Waters is loaded with higher costs and lays a path to ...

    This is a long, possibly technical, but very, very important read. I encourage you to take the time and spread your awareness.IntroductionIn 2022, then Labour Party Prime Minister Jacinda Adern expended significant political capital to protect New Zealand’s water assets from privatisation. She lost that battle, and Labour and the ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    7 days ago
  • Plugging a video channel: Dr Gilbz

    Dr. Ella Gilbert is a climate scientist and presenter with a PhD in Antarctic climate change, working at the British Antarctic Survey (BAS). Her background is in atmospheric sciences and she's especially interested in the physical mechanisms of climate change, clouds, and almost anything polar. She is passionate about communicating climate ...
    7 days ago
  • Some “scrutiny” again

    Back in 2022, in its Open Government Partnership National Action Plan, the government promised to strengthen scrutiny of Official Information Act exemption clauses in legislation. Since then they've run a secret "consultation" on how to do that, with their preferred outcome being that agencies will consult the Ministry of Justice ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Crashing New Zealand's health system is not the way to prosperity, Prime Minister

    Another day, and yet another piece of bad news for New Zealand’s health system. Reports have come out that General Practitioners (GP) may have to close doors, or increase patient fees to survive. The so-called ‘capitation’ funding review, which supports GP practices to survive, is under way, and primary care ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    1 week ago
  • Closer Than You Think: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.

    Redefining Our Terms: “When an angry majority is demanding change, defending the status-quo is an extremist position.”“WHAT’S THIS?”, asked Laurie, eyeing suspiciously the two glasses of red wine deposited in front of him.“A nice drop of red. I thought you’d be keen to celebrate the French Far-Right’s victory with the ...
    1 week ago
  • Come on Darleen.

    Good morning all, time for a return to things domestic. After elections in the UK and France, Luxon gatecrashing Nato, and the attempted shooting of Trump, it’s probably about time we re-focus on local politics.Unless of course you’re Christopher Luxon and you’re so exhausted from all your schmoozing in Washington ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • How the Northwest was lost and may be won

    This is a guest post by Darren Davis. It originally appeared on his excellent blog, Adventures in Transitland, which we encourage you to check out. It is shared by kind permission. The Northwest has always been Auckland’s public transport Cinderella, rarely invited to the public funding ball. How did ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Tuesday July 16

    Luxon has told a Financial Times’ correspondent he would openly call out China’s spying in future and does not fear economic retaliation from Aotearoa’s largest trading partner.File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Tuesday, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Tuesday, July 16

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 16 are:PM Christopher Luxon has given a very hawkish interview to the Financial Times-$$$ correspondent in Washington, Demetri Sevastopulu, saying ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Tuesday, July 16

    Photo by Ryunosuke Kikuno on UnsplashTL;DR: The top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day to 6:00 am are:BNZ released its Performance of Services Index for June, finding that services sector is at its lowest level of activity ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The second crisis; assumption was the mother

    Late on the night of July 16, 1984, while four National Cabinet Ministers were meeting in the Beehive office of Deputy Prime Minister Jim McLay, plotting the ultimate downfall of outgoing Prime Minister Sir Robert Muldoon, another crisis was building up in another part of the capital. The United States ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • Can we air condition our way out of extreme heat?

    This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler Air conditioning was initially a symbol of comfort and wealth, enjoyed by the wealthy in theaters and upscale homes. Over time, as technology advanced and costs decreased, air conditioning became more accessible to the general public. With global warming, though, ...
    1 week ago
  • Review: The Zimiamvian Trilogy, by E.R. Eddison (1935-1958)

    I have reviewed some fairly obscure stuff on this blog. Nineteenth century New Zealand speculative fiction. Forgotten Tolkien adaptations. George MacDonald and William Morris. Last month I took a look at The Worm Ouroboros (1922), by E.R. Eddison, which while not strictly obscure, is also not overly inviting to many ...
    1 week ago
  • Media Link: AVFA on the Trump assassination attempt.

    In this episode of “A View from Afar” Selwyn Manning and I discuss the attempt on Donald Trump’s life and its implications for the US elections. The political darkness grows. ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago

  • Charity lotteries to be permitted to operate online

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 mins ago
  • Accelerating Northland Expressway

    The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    25 mins ago
  • Sir Don to travel to Viet Nam as special envoy

    Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced.    “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Grant Illingworth KC appointed as transitional Commissioner to Royal Commission

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024.  “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • NZ to advance relationships with ASEAN partners

    Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane.    “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says.   “This will be our third visit to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Backing mental health services on the West Coast

    Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • NZ support for sustainable Pacific fisheries

    New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
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    5 hours ago
  • Students’ needs at centre of new charter school adjustments

    Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Commissioner replaces Health NZ Board

    In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today.  “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
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    1 day ago
  • Minister to speak at Australian Space Forum

    Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum.  While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation.  “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
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    1 day ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend climate action meeting in China

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan.  “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
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    1 day ago
  • Oceans and Fisheries Minister to Solomons

    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government launches Military Style Academy Pilot

    The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
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    3 days ago
  • Nine priority bridge replacements to get underway

    The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Update on global IT outage

    Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand, Japan renew Pacific partnership

    New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says.    “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
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    4 days ago
  • New infrastructure energises BOP forestry towns

    New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
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    4 days ago
  • 'Pacific Futures'

    President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests.    Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone.    Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Delivering 24 hour pothole repairs

    Kiwis and freight operators will benefit from the Coalition Government delivering on its commitment to introduce targets that will ensure a greater number of potholes on our state highways are identified and fixed within 24 hours, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is a key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Peer Support Specialists rolled out in hospitals

    Five hospitals have been selected to trial a new mental health and addiction peer support service in their emergency departments as part of the Government’s commitment to increase access to mental health and addiction support for New Zealanders, says Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey.  “Peer Support Specialists in EDs will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Consultation opens for the Emissions Reduction Plan

    The Government’s draft Emissions Reduction Plan shows we can stay within the limits of the first two emissions budgets while growing the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “This draft Emissions Reduction Plan shows that with effective climate change policies we can both grow the economy and deliver our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Benefit stats highlight need for welfare reset

    The coalition Government is providing extra support for job seekers to ensure as many Kiwis as possible are in work or preparing for work, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “While today’s quarterly data showing a rise in the number of people on Jobseeker benefits has been long ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • School attendance continues to increase

    Provisional school attendance data for Term 2 2024 released today has shown more students are back in class compared to last year, with 53.1 per cent of students regularly attending, compared with 47 per cent in Term 2 2023, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. “The Government has prioritised student ...
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    5 days ago
  • $22.7m of West Coast resilience projects underway

    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news of progress being made by the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) on the first of several crucial resilience projects underway on the South Island’s West Coast.“State highways across the West Coast are critical lifelines for communities throughout the region, including for freight and tourism. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Migrant school leavers to get part-time work rights

    The coalition Government is providing migrant school leavers with greater opportunities, by increasing access to part-time work rights for those awaiting the outcome of a family residence application, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford has announced.  “Many young people who are part of a family residence application process are unable to work. ...
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    6 days ago
  • Funding to support use of NZ Sign Language

    Seven projects have received government funding totalling nearly $250,000 to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). Initiatives that received an NZSL Board Community Grants this year include camps that support the use of NZSL through physical and sensory activities, and clubs where Deaf people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Inflation data shows progress in economic recovery

    Today’s Consumer Price Index data which has inflation at 3.3 per cent for the year to July 2024, shows we are turning our economy around and winning the fight against rampant inflation, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  “While today’s data will be welcome news for Kiwis, I know many New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Experts to advise Minister on Oranga Tamariki

    The Oranga Tamariki Ministerial Advisory Board has been re-established by the Minister for Children, Karen Chhour. “I look forward to working with the new board to continue to ensure Oranga Tamariki and the care and protection system, are entirely child centric,” Minister Chhour says. “The board will provide independent advice ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Expectations set for improved medicines access

    Associate Health Minister David Seymour says he has set clear expectations for Pharmac around delivering the medicines and medical technology that Kiwis need.  “For many New Zealanders, funding for pharmaceuticals is life or death, or the difference between a life of pain and suffering or living freely. New cancer medicines ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Regional Development Minister to host summits

    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones will hold a series of nationwide summits to discuss regional priorities, aspirations and opportunities, with the first kicking off in Nelson on August 12. The 15 summits will facilitate conversations about progressing regional economic growth and opportunities to drive productivity, prosperity and resilience through the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government delivers new school for Rolleston

    The Coalition Government is addressing growing demands on Canterbury’s school network, by delivering a new primary school in Rolleston, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. Within Budget 24’s $400 million investment into school property growth, construction will begin on a new primary school (years 1-8) in Selwyn, Canterbury.  Rolleston South Primary ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New speed camera signs to improve safety

    The Government is welcoming the rollout of new speed camera signs for fixed speed cameras to encourage drivers to check their speeds, improving road safety and avoiding costly speeding tickets, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Providing Kiwis with an opportunity to check their speed and slow down in high crash areas ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ, Korea strengthen relationship

    New Zealand and the Republic of Korea continue to strengthen their relationship, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “New Zealand and Korea have a long history – from New Zealand soldiers fighting in the Korean War, through to our strong cooperation today as partners supporting the international rules-based order.    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Investing for future growth in tourism and hospitality

    The Government is moving forward with recommendations from the Tourism Data Leadership Group, beginning with establishing a Tourism Data Partnership Fund says Tourism and Hospitality Minister Matt Doocey. “The Tourism Data Partnership Fund is funded through the International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy (IVL) and will provide up to $400,000 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 4000 more job seekers to get case managers

    A new over-the-phone employment case management service will see thousands more job seekers under the age of 25 supported to find work, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston has announced. “MSD case managers provide valuable support to help people into work, but less than a third of those receiving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Trade Minister to attend G7 meeting in Italy

    Trade Minister Todd McClay will attend the Group of Seven (G7) Trade Ministers meeting in Reggio Calabria, Italy next week. This is the first time New Zealand has been invited to join the event, which will be attended by some of the world’s largest economies and many of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ministers reveal consequences for unruly Kāinga Ora tenants

    Ministers are pleased to see Kāinga Ora taking a stronger approach to managing unruly, threatening or abusive tenants, Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka say.    “For far too long, a small number of Kāinga Ora tenants have ridden roughshod over their neighbours because, under Kāinga ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister wraps up US visit in California

    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has finished a successful four-day visit to the United States with meetings in California on his final day focusing on innovation and investment.  “It has been fantastic to be in San Francisco today seeing first-hand the deepening links between New Zealand and California. “New Zealand company, EV Maritime, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister leads Indo-Pacific Four at NATO

    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today chaired a meeting of the Indo-Pacific Four (IP4) countries – Australia, Japan, the Republic of Korea and New Zealand. The IP4 met in the context of NATO’s Summit in Washington DC hosted by President Biden. “Prosperity is only possible with security,” Mr Luxon says. “We need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • District Court judges appointed

    Attorney-General Hon Judith Collins today announced the appointment of three new District Court Judges.   The appointees, who will take up their roles in July and August at the Manukau, Rotorua and Invercargill courts, are:   Matthew Nathan Judge Nathan was admitted to bar in New Zealand in 2021, having previously been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

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