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Implosion-watch

Written By: - Date published: 6:49 am, July 12th, 2011 - 79 comments
Categories: act, don brash, john key, maori party, national, rodney hide - Tags:

Two ministers went head to head calling each other racists last night but it looked more like two old hobos fighting over a tin of beans. Pathetic.

Even Rodney Hide has come out against Brash’s racism, but our Prime Minister doesn’t give a damn.

John Key has sided with Brash and dismissed the offense many Kiwis feel over the ads by saying he doesn’t “give a toss” about ACT’s racist ads. Key’s endorsement of Brash’s racism is not good enough. By lending political coverage in the form of Epsom to a bunch of racists Key has aligned himself with their racism.

Confused by this whirlwind of grey old tories biting each other? gobsmacked explains:

“Minister in government attacks leader of his own party, who isn’t in government or Parliament, but hopes to be after the election, provided the party that he used to lead allows a candidate who used to be in that party to defeat the candidate of that party so that the aforementioned party can form a government with the support of the party that the former leader now leads, and who is now busy slagging off the current leader of the aforementioned party, in order to get enough votes to keep that party in power.”

Hope that clears it up.

Of course, one person has the job of cutting this Gordian knot and returning some order to the government. And he’s too busy acting all faint over capital gains tax.

79 comments on “Implosion-watch”

  1. Carol 1

    And he’s too busy acting all faint over capital gains tax.

    And also taking a page out of John Howard’s play book and trying to drum up xenophobic fears of boats of asylum seekers heading NZ’s way.

  2. This could get interesting. Who said the election was going to occur on November 26. If the polls start turning dramatically then Key will be tempted to pull the pin early.

    With both of his likely coalition partners in melt down the Tories may have nowhere else to go than to go for broke and if support ebbs they may lose what many have thought was the unlovable election!

    Make sure you have plenty of popcorn! Parliament today will be interesting.

  3. Maybe Labour shouldn’t get all faint watching the other lot as the Greens get increasingly aggressive at eating into their territory.

  4. Does this sum up the fools?
    “The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them….To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.” – George Orwell,

  5. tc 5

    What a low brow knuckle dragging lot the NACT are

  6. Colonial Viper 6

    I like watching hobos fight, collect DVDs of it. Perhaps I should just start recording Parliament TV?

    • jackal 6.1

      I enjoyed the first half of the Don/Pita debate. Mainly because Julian Wilcox is such a great presenter and gets to the truth of the matter lickity split.

      As for John Key, he’s an asshole! Coming out and saying we can’t help refugees when we have a legal obligation to do so shows that he is an unthinking fool!

      Not dismissing Act’s racism shows that he is complicit to that racism. He doesn’t give a toss about racism, or he doesn’t give a toss that racism is being advertised? Once again we need an interpreter to understand what the fuck our Prime Minster is on about.

  7. Colonial Viper 7

    I bet you Key knew about those asylum seekers heading to NZ by Sunday morning, as ACT’s ads were causing their response.

    That’s when the NATs planned their Australian Conservative style boat people response and implicitly adding respectability to ACT’s racist card:

    Brown people don’t deserve additional help, even if they are in dire straits. They don’t even deserve being listened to, actually.

  8. queenstfarmer 8

    Seems no-one could answer this question yesterday, so I’ll try my luck here: why should National refuse to work with Act, any more than Labour refused (and in fact actually did) work with New Zealand First? On the “logic” of this article, Labour has endorsed NZ First’s racism.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Actually ACT is a racist party standing in this election on a racist platform.

      Key should rule out working with ACT exactly as Goff has ruled out working with the unreliable, outspoken and volatile Harawira.

      Goff has set the standard for a Nov 26 coalition, let’s see if Key has the guts to follow.

      Or maybe Key is ‘comfortable’ with the unreliable, outspoken and volatile ACT party because they are all his friends and long time National supporters, and he ‘couldn’t give a stuff’ about their racism.

      • Gosman 8.1.1

        How exactly is it racist?

        I think it is distasteful to bring this sort of thing up but that hardly qualifies as racism.

        Racism is quite distinct, it is the belief and treatment of a group of people as inferior to another group based on their racial background.

        • weka 8.1.1.1

          There’s all different kinds of racism. And if you read Ansell’s comments, he certainly thinks that Maori are inferior to the master race.

          • pollywog 8.1.1.1.1

            About time we had a debate on race and racism and exactly what it means…yeah ?

            Open mike 11/07/2011

            …and then at the end of it we can ditch the whole ‘race’ thing and erase it from our political vocabularies.

            • weka 8.1.1.1.1.1

              I agree we should have the debate PW. I’m not sure what you are meaning though. Obviously there is no such thing as race. But there is such a thing as racism.

              • Vicky32

                Obviously there is no such thing as race.

                Obviously there is, actually. Ask a doctor. Treatments and disease modalities are both affected by race.
                That doesn’t mean I believe racism is a good thing, it manifestly isn’t, but denying that race is a real thing, helps no one.

                • R

                  ‘denying that race is a real thing, helps no one’

                  Rubbish, Vicky, sorry. In this context especially. Any decent doctor ascribing a problem to a particular group of people will be using the term ‘race’ to describe the genetic profile of a social group. Genes, not race. Culture, not ethnic affiliation.

            • vto 8.1.1.1.1.2

              I agree mr polly. What is racism?

              My 2c says it is judgment, selection, or views, determined on the basis of a subjects race.

              But then again some things can be determined, of a form, by race. Example, various African races have a physical makeup which means they can run faster than pretty much all other races.

              Another example, various …… races have a physical makeup which means they can think (faster) than pretty much all other races.

              Scary subject … be brave now …

              • weka

                There’s no such thing as race vto. All humans belong to the same ‘race’.

                • lprent

                  Yep, if you were looking at an abstract level, there is no significant difference at a genetic species level between humans apart from gender (the genome is almost as homogeneous as cheetahs and probably because of the same recent near extinctions in this last few hundred thousand years).

                  There are some noticeable but not particularly significant cultural differences (all human cultures operate in much the same way with minor variations).

                  What there is, is a human tribal trait of defining in and out groups that we share with other social animals – which humans then plaster rationales on top of because they don’t like realizing that they are mostly just animals with a high degree of genetic preprogramming.

                  • vto

                    Good. Now surely it can be seen that creating two sets of rules and arrangements in New Zealand for what are, as expressed above, the same people (with different cultural norms etc) is in fact even more silly than it was when it was understood that the separate rules and arrangements were for different races. It makes even less sense now…

                    Although perhaps my argument goes too far down a rabbit hole. Perhaps these separate sets of rules and arrangements are not intended to be permanent and are instead intended to merely assist one group of us, with different cultural norms, through a temporary difficult patch?

                    … guidance needed …

                    • McFlock

                      Let’s say “agreed” (although I have some issues with your delivery).
                      So now we just have the situation where several loosely-affiliated groups of people settled on some land. Several hundred years later some slightly stronger-affiliated groups of people encountered the first bunch, made a treaty to settle on the same land under specifc terms, then promptly broke those terms with a bit of the old rape / murder / theft / unlawful_imprisonment etc, and thereby damned the descendents of the first group to a quite abysmal socioeconomic status and the attempted eradication of their culture.

                      As far as I can see, the question we are faced with is not actually race-based, although cultural differences often lead to confusion. It’s about resolving the damage caused by the theft and breach of contract, and returning to the original partnership between equal parties.
                       

                  • Vicky32

                    Yep, if you were looking at an abstract level, there is no significant difference at a genetic species level between humans apart from gender (the genome is almost as homogeneous as cheetahs and probably because of the same recent near extinctions in this last few hundred thousand years).
                     
                    What there is, is a human tribal trait of defining in and out groups that we share with other social animals – which humans then plaster rationales on top of because they don’t like realizing that they are mostly just animals with a high degree of genetic preprogramming.
                     
                    The fact is, that whether you want to believe it or not, there is such a thing as race. For instance, African-Americans respond sufficiently differently to anti-hypertensives, that denial of the reality of race, can actually be harmful
                    I know you also don’t want to believe that people are in fact more than just animals. But we are – think about it. If we’re only animals, then we’re not culpable for anything, including racism.
                     

                    • McFlock

                      I don’t even want to know where you got that tripe from. Way to combo genetic justifications for race with what I guess one would call “let’s play chicken with nihilism”.

                    • rosy

                      For instance, African-Americans respond sufficiently differently to anti-hypertensives, that denial of the reality of race, can actually be harmful

                      Someone very close to me has reasonably recent black African ancestry. He could very well respond poorly to those anti-hypertensives. But that would be due a couple of recessive genes, not race. In terms of ‘race’ he is clearly European (but he can run fast for a white guy ;-)).

          • Gosman 8.1.1.1.2

            Where is you evidence for this?

            I heard Ansell on the Radio yesterday. I don’t think he stated anything that could be construed that Maori were inferior to European New Zealanders.

            • weka 8.1.1.1.2.1

              If you have a look at the two recent The Standard posts on this, you will see alot of what Ansell said over the weekend. There are links to his comments on Kiwiblog, and to MSM interviews.
               
              When you’ve read those, come back and try and make the case that Ansell isn’t being racist.

            • Secret Squirrel 8.1.1.1.2.2

              Ansell certainly strongly implied women were inferior.

        • bbfloyd 8.1.1.2

          gosman… your comment(8.1,1) is racist… take some time out and think about why i said this…

          update… compounding the gaff by taking a literal approach to what the people in question say is another time honoured racist technique, designed to deflect attention from the core message.

      • weka 8.1.2

        QSF, there are some things that are beyond simple differences of policy. The kind of racism and misogyny that Ansell expresses goes far past what should be acceptable in this country. However I think John Key should go for it. There are many died in the wool National voters who feel very uncomfortable about ACT, and I’d guess there will be a number of swing voters too. Give them enough rope.
         
        CV, there is a difference between Goff’s decision and what Key should be doing. Goff may not like Harawira’s behaviour or volatility, and those may be good reasons to rule out Mana as a coalition partner (I think the youngness of the party is a better reason myself). But even though Harawira tends to say things perceived as radical, he’s not pursuing an agenda of something as abhorrent as racial oppression. Some people may not like his personal beliefs but I’ve not seen him promoting those personal beliefs as policy eg in the private email where he talked about colonisation, he’s not saying that Mana want Maori to rule NZ. What ACT are doing is categorically different than what Mana are doing.

        • Gosman 8.1.2.1

          Where’s the policy in ACT’s manifesto that can be classified as racial oppression?

          I must have missed that announcement.

          • weka 8.1.2.1.1

            I haven’t read their manifesto. I’m going off what they say in public. The fact that a bunch of white men think they know what’s best for Maori irrrespective of what Maori say is the most obvious expression of their racism, but there’s far more than that.

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.2.1.1.1

              Personally I don’t think it would be a bad thing for there to be a viable and seriously Left political party in this country. For a time the Alliance should have been it.

              We’ll have to wait and see if Te Mana can fulfil more promise.

            • Gosman 8.1.2.1.1.2

              I’d say it is racist to claim that Maori are the only ones who know what is best for Maori. It is illogical as well. I don’t claim my Asian Doctor isn’t as good as a European one in determining what is best for me from a health outcome point of view so why would it apply to other areas of life?

          • Blighty 8.1.2.1.2

            please point us to ACT’s manifesto.

            Not the 2025 taskforce report, the actual one.

            Oh, that’s right. Parties don’t do manifestos anymore. Their platforms consist of policy papers and public statements like this ad.

        • queenstfarmer 8.1.2.2

          Thankfully, Ansell is gone – he should head over to NZ First. In fact, given that Labour hasn’t ruled out once again teaming up with NZ First, that would be rather amusing outcome!

          • Pascal's bookie 8.1.2.2.1

            He’s still saying Vote ACT though, still sating he thinks Don is the only one that can save the country from ‘evil’ maori who want to maorify the nation, whatever the fuck that means.

            reckon he’s still earning whatever he got paid no matter how much they say they have nothing to do with each other.

            • Kaplan 8.1.2.2.1.1

              I can’t help wondering if an 1860’s Ansell would have been aghast at the eurofication of Aotearoa and Te Waipounamu.

              • Pascal's bookie

                Don’t be silly, we were doing them a favour dontchaknow. Mighty white of us, and are they grateful? Of course they’re not. Typical. And it’s not racist to say so!

      • queenstfarmer 8.1.3

        Key should rule out working with ACT exactly as Goff has ruled out working with the unreliable, outspoken and volatile Harawira.

        But what about the unreliable, outspoken volatile, race-baiting, Winston Peters that Phil Goff was only too happy to be in Government with, and hasn’t ruled out working with again?

        I think it would be very silly to suggest that Goff “endorses” NZ First’s highly questionable view (or that of its ad men), any more than to suggest Key endorses Ansell’s race baiting. But you apparently think otherwise.

        • weka 8.1.3.1

          Goff ruled out Harawira because he didn’t want to scare the horses. Peters fits better with the voters Goff thinks he needs.
           
          Personally I’d take Harawira’s volatility over Peters’ smarminess any day.

        • Colonial Viper 8.1.3.2

          any more than to suggest Key endorses Ansell’s race baiting. But you apparently think otherwise.

          Race baiting is something Key is comfortable with; he doesn’t mind it, doesn’t give a stuff about it, so naturally he won’t condemn ACT or its race baiting leadership.

  9. weka 9

    Two ministers went head to head calling each other racists last night but it looked more like two old hobos fighting over a tin of beans. Pathetic.
     

    For those of us who didn’t see the news last night, which two ministers are you talking about, and where did they go head to head?

    • pollywog 9.1

      Sharples & Brash on Native Affairs last night ?

      Whatever it was they were doing wasn’t debating or going head to head. It was more like traipsing around hand in hand finding common ground to defuse the “racial” situation and smooth things over for the sake of Key’s shitty government and their tenuous grasps on power ?

      T’was a total fucking snorefest with each trying to out diplomatise the other. That Julian Wilcox is a pretty damn good interviewer/referee though.

    • Gosman 9.2

      Winston Peters used to engage in similar, (if not worse) behaviour with Asian’s and foreigners all the time. That didn’t stop Helen Clark’s led government including him in it. Did that make Helen a racist?

  10. Blue 10

    “Did that make Helen a racist?” – yes Gosman, yes it did.

  11. I’m angry and ashamed of the cold blooded comment from Key regarding the asylum seeking boat people .
    His cold blooded remarks show just what unfeeling scary person he is.
    He is guilty of the worst type of behavour, he has forgot his past.He has forgotten his Jewish background and early life. What sort of uncaring person forgets his mother’s background. How can one forget that their mother was a refugee who came to Aotearoa for exactly the same reason as these poor boat people are now. ? The same type as one that forgets their working class background joining the very people who despise the class he come from. One should be very aware of such parasites .

    • vto 11.1

      Agree, although rather than Key’s comments indicating cold-bloodedness and unfeeling and scary I think it shows him up to be simply really very ignorant. About pretty much everything.

  12. There isn’t enough shit left to start retrofitting what we have, we will not be able to ‘rebuild’ ChCh, let alone our power generating systems, also there isn’t enough ‘profit/life’ left in the global economy, no one is going to build gazillions of wind farms without massive govt inputs, and at the moment our lot are having to borrow $270 million per week on average over the next 4 years … just to stand still, or not go backwards to much, then we have all the loans falling due every 10 years or so.
    The USA is living off a Mugabe style printing press, the EU couldn’t fund a decent pissup let alone afford to rebuild it’s failing power generation, Japan is stuffed. Can anyone see Greece, Ireland, Iceland, etc etc rebuilding its infrastructure?
    These suggestions are from people who have no idea or ability to grasp the true situation.
    A joke from Ron – picture a CEO giving a state of the company speech
    “And so, while the end-of-the-world scenario will be rife with unimaginable horrors, we believe that the pre-end period will be filled with unprecedented opportunities for profit.”
    Wind farms etc are just another way to move the statues from the quarry to their plinth, ignoring the lack of food production etc on the island.

  13. RedLogix 13

    Or you could go all paraniod and suggest that ACT deliberately turning itself into such a circus that the intention is turn off voters from MMP.

    Maybe that’s all ACT is good for any more.

    Still I had to snicker unpleasantly just a little at poor old Dr Sharples struggling to avoid the phrase ‘cancerous and corrosive’. That would have been too ironic.

    • felix 13.1

      Or you could go all paraniod and suggest that ACT deliberately turning itself into such a circus that the intention is turn off voters from MMP.

      Hmmmm. ACT needs MMP, National wants rid of MMP.

      So when you consider that ACT has been taken over and is now being run by a bunch of semi-retired National Party proxies, it doesn’t seem all that paranoid.

  14. Vicky32 14

    Okay, for some unknown reason, there’s no reply button under their posts, but this reply is to McFlock and Rosy.
    I get that you don’t want to believe what I have said, and I also get why you don’t – you believe that acknowledging that ‘race’ is real will allow racism. Nevertheless, race is a real thing! If 99% of people from a particular place with particular characteristics, display identical genetic reactions to particular treatments, how is that not race?
    To say that race is a real thing, is  not the same thing as promoting racism! Why do you refuse to see that? The whole “there’s no such thing as race” is incredibly patronising and, I’d go as far as to say, stupid.
    http://www.stanford.edu/group/collman/jpc/Chapter2.htm#_Race_Can_be
    and
    http://www.stanford.edu/group/collman/jpc/Chapter2.htm#_Race-specific_Drugs
    Of course there’s overlap, and few people (if any, in 2011) are not mixtures of ‘races’. To that extent, you’re right, but ignoring race altogether when prescribing etc is foolish and potentially dangerous. Race is not the same thing as culture, as a Samoan  friend of mine (and fellow student) had to point out to a patronising berk who was also a fellow student of ours years ago. She wanted to bring her son up to appreciate classical music and get a good education, and she was extremely irked that all he wanted to do was listen to NWA and dress like a gangsta. “It’s his culture” whined this elderly Pakeha guy, and she rounded on him, saying “No, it’s black American culture, and just because he’s an Islander doesn’t mean he has to adhere to it”.
    While we’re at it, check out this Wikipedia page, about something my nurse son is always on about, hepatotoxicity, and the sidebar on the lower right of the page…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatotoxicity
     

    • McFlock 14.1

      Just as “race” is not culture, it is also not purely genetics – otherwise all gingas would be Irish.
      “Race” is an artificial construct and is frequently applied in different ways (according to the person doing the applying) from culture to genes to geography, or mixtures thereof. And it’s also usually applied by one person onto another in a general and constant manner based on the most arbitrary of surface characteristics.
      “Race” is not the occasional reasonable acceptance of differences between groups of people for specific relevant tasks, e.g. geography, socioeconomic differences, or medicine (although even then most “race affected” conditions/reactions are rules of thumb and require a specific test on the specific individual). 
      And, in the political arena and especially regarding the Treaty, 99% of people using the term “race” are full of crap, and the other 1% chose their words poorly.
       

      • rosy 14.1.1

        +1 McFlock, +1.

      • Vicky32 14.1.2

        Just as “race” is not culture, it is also not purely genetics – otherwise all gingas would be Irish.
        Scottish, thanks! 🙂 (My family are all gingas and we’re Scottish/English)

        “Race” is not the occasional reasonable acceptance of differences between groups of people for specific relevant tasks, e.g. geography, socioeconomic differences, or medicine (although even then most “race affected” conditions/reactions are rules of thumb and require a specific test on the specific individual). 
         
        Well, that’s how I mean it! My remarks have got nothing at all to do with the Treaty, and everything to do with the fact that it’s pointless and silly to deny that ‘race’ exists. I can assure you that it matters greatly to some people, whatever they mean by it! If I go into a language classroom and assume that a Japanese person is Korean or Chinese, I cause offence, which is awkward, as they are almost indistinguishable by sight, though thankfully not by name or accent…

        • McFlock 14.1.2.1

          YOU assuming that THEY are X is racist. Them IDENTIFYING with X is not. It’s the difference between imposing your label on them, and them choosing their own label, which changes according to time and personal perception. Some ethnicity identifiers refer to prioritised ethnicity, any ethnicity, sole ethnicity, or even “ever” ethnicity (based on whether people change self-identified ethnic groups in different encounters). “Race” is strictly about someone else applying a constant label based on essentially arbitrary criteria.
          With regards genetics or place of birth, labels imposed by others don’t work – “Asian” reactions to medicine Y are more likely for people who self-identify as “Asian”, but if someone had that same reaction they might be very surprised to be called “Asian”.

          • Vicky32 14.1.2.1.1

            YOU assuming that THEY are X is racist. Them IDENTIFYING with X is not.

            Ma dai! As someone said to me tonight, you would try the patience of the Pope! Have you ever been in a classroom? Sometimes it’s part of my job to ‘assume’ they are ‘X’… in giving a lesson, for instance. Japanese, Korean, Chinese, all have different pronunciation or reading issues.
            Just to try to salvage my reputation, as you seem to have marked me down as a Klan member, the same is true of people from non-Asian language groups, such as the Russians, Italians and Brazilians I have also taught.
            Secondo me, sei un pretendente, arrogante e nello stesso tempo, pateticamente insicuro di fronte  persone che pensano diversamente da te.
             
             

            • McFlock 14.1.2.1.1.1

              Like you’re the only one who’s ever worked in a multicultural  environment. But then I used to work with individuals, rather than making assumptions and then having to apologise. Or at least that’s what I learned to do pretty quickly. Cultural differences were fun, but try accommodating GLBT support at the same time as the WWJD crowd.

              You’re entitled to your opinion – if I were to make an assumption it would be that I’m not the only person you’ve ever put into that box. Although I’ll own up to the arrogance.

            • rosy 14.1.2.1.1.2

              I’m not at all suggesting you would do this in teaching English to foreign students Vicky… but an example of the other-side of assuming needs is the experience of a young boy I know. His parent was told that there wasn’t an expectation that he would do homework and keep up with the class. Reason being – he was Maori.

              To assume that of any child is destroying their potential, but to specifically assume that of this boy is a good case to point out that assumption based on race is wrong i.e. because he is Maori he didn’t have the resources required to succeed academically. The teacher had not bothered to find out that both his parents were well-paid, well-educated professionals and clearly understood what their son required (and btw one was also Pakeha). The boy can identify as Maori all he wants but to negatively stereotype him based on his looks was unforgivable really.

              The other problem with a teacher like this is that she might have been just as likely to assume any Pakeha child had the resources required to succeed – based on the fact they were/looked Pakeha without bothering to find out if they actually did so.

              I know from previous comments you’ve made previously that teachers have underestimated your potential in the past – to do this based on class you clearly understand and deplore. To do so based on race is possibly worse (if only because you can hide class if you want, but it’s harder to hide race).

              • Vicky32

                I’m not at all suggesting you would do this in teaching English to foreign students Vicky…

                Well, of course I wouldn’t! Even if it weren’t that 99% of my students are adults..)

                The other problem with a teacher like this is that she might have been just as likely to assume any Pakeha child had the resources required to succeed – based on the fact they were/looked Pakeha without bothering to find out if they actually did so.

                Oh yes! When I was on a DPB and bringing up my son, I had to content with some teachers who assumed that of course we had a video-camera, a car and such like things, because we’re Pakeha. (Another assumption was that I let him watch TV all day and half the night – she actually assigned TV shows as ‘homework’… I know that’s not strictly relevant, but it reminds me of all the shock-horror-probe from the media when Jeanette Fitzsimons went in to her electorate office early one election night, to watch the results because she didn’t have TV.. it had simply never occurred to them that someone might choose not to have TV! 🙂 )

            • wtl 14.1.2.1.1.3

              Sometimes it’s part of my job to ‘assume’ they are ‘X’… in giving a lesson, for instance. Japanese, Korean, Chinese, all have different pronunciation or reading issues.

              I feel like I’m stating the obvious here, but surely a better approach would be to simply ask each student what their first language is and then teach them on that basis. Furthermore, this has nothing to do with ‘race’ or even nationality, but rather to do with their upbringing, or specifically the language that is spoken in the household.

              • Vicky32

                I feel like I’m stating the obvious here, but surely a better approach would be to simply ask each student what their first language is and then teach them on that basis. Furthermore, this has nothing to do with ‘race’ or even nationality, but rather to do with their upbringing, or specifically the language that is spoken in the household.

                Another man who has never been inside a classroom tries to teach his grandmother to suck eggs….
                Once again for the hard of thinking, I am teaching adult students in a classroom. I like to give them individual attention, I am a reliever. I don’t necessarily know who they are. If they ask a question, and I am answering, it can be important for me to know whether they are Japanese, Chinese, Korean etc. (Vietnamese people are very easy to distinguish – both by their voices and other cues.) If I make the wrong assumption, “hey, you’re Japanese, that means you’ve learned American English etc” and they’re Korean, or vice versa, they can get rather agitated. That’s why race is important to them, not me, which was my original point, 48 hours and a shedload of ignorant abuse and assumption ago…

                Oh and while I am at it “I feel like I’m” ought to be “I feel as if”… Too much American TV, hey?

                Signore Coglione, i miei studenti non hanno una famiglia, sono persone stranieri che studiano qui. Adulti, capito?

                • McFlock

                  Three points:
                  1) stop pretending that teachers are the only ones who have to deal with diversity issues;

                  2) no surprise that Koreans and Japanese might get “rather agitated” at such an assumption. Read up on the Japanese occupation of Korea in the first half of the 20th Century. Particularly “comfort women”. Nothing to do with “race”;

                  3) a small digression here, but I would have thought that given the history of US troop deployments in Asia, both (South) Korean and Japanese citizens are probably more  familiar with Webster’s than the OED. 

                  • Vicky32

                    Three points:
                    1) stop pretending that teachers are the only ones who have to deal with diversity issues;

                    When have I ever said that? Don’t be stupid…

                    3) a small digression here, but I would have thought that given the history of US troop deployments in Asia, both (South) Korean and Japanese citizens are probably more  familiar with Webster’s than the OED. 

                    Did you read what I said? The Japanese invariably learn American English, the Koreans often (but not always) do. Now are you going to leave it alone? I get it, you’re very important. We all see that. I am not a Klan member, nor even a racist but you don’t want to believe that.
                    However, I will admit to anything you want me to say, provided you promise to leave me alone, okay?

                    • McFlock

                      “When have I ever said that?”
                      Just the suggestion that other people might not have anything of value to contribute because they are “Another man who has never been inside a classroom tries to teach his grandmother to suck eggs….”

                      I never called you a clan member. I just don’t think that being multilingual or working with ESL students necessarily means that one is not racist. “Not being racist” simply involves not imposing generalised labels on other people.

                      And switching to a second language to insult people might be regarded as being just a touch passive-aggressive – it’s all very well calling me “arrogant” and a “pretender”, but you have been claiming a certain amount of authority for yourself, too. 
                       

                      I generally enjoy having my beliefs about myself and my society (gender, cultural or other issues) challenged by strong debate (e.g. *why* I have the instinct that the concept of “race” is bs. Turns out that it’s because I have an issue with people pinning labels to others, rather than people choosing labels for themselves. I didn’t pick that root cause when the discussion started – thanks, it helped a lot). 

                      If others don’t find any benefit from lengthy debate, they don’t have to engage in the discussion.

  15. randal 15

    the only thing keys cares about is the bond yields he flogged off to his mates and his client list..

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

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  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #12, 2020
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    1 week ago
  • Avoidable hospitalisations: Helping our health system get through COVID-19
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    1 week ago
  • Raise the Bar: 10 questions to ask your employer proposing redundancy
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  • An equitable way to support business
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    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Together Alone
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  • Why timing is everything: ‘A time to refrain from embracing’ starts today
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  • Dealing with the Covid-19 Tsunami.
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  • What about renters?
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    1 week ago

  • Govt’s COVID plan, economic strength recognised
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  • Funding certainty for sports through COVID-19
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    10 hours ago
  • Butchers now allowed to process pork
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    21 hours ago
  • Essential workers leave scheme established
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    23 hours ago
  • Govt WhatsApp helps share COVID-19 information
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  • Managed departure plan for stranded foreign nationals enables safe, orderly exit
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  • Government delivers COVID-19 support to GPs and Pharmacies
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    24 hours ago
  • Susan Thomas the new Chief High Court Judge
    Justice Susan Thomas has been appointed Chief High Court Judge, Attorney-General David Parker announced today.  She replaces Justice Geoffrey Venning who has resigned from the position.   David Parker paid tribute to Justice Venning, who he said had stewarded the High Court very capably over the last five years.   “On behalf ...
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    1 day ago
  • Business Finance Guarantee – applications open
    Businesses can start applying to their banks for loans under the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme set up to support the New Zealand economy during the COVID-19 pandemic. “We’re moving quickly to protect New Zealand businesses, jobs and the economy during this unprecedented global economic shock,” Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. ...
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    2 days ago
  • Work starts on ways to fast-track consents to boost recovery from Covid-19 downturn
    Work is underway looking at measures to speed up consents for development and infrastructure projects during the recovery from COVID 19, to provide jobs and stimulate our economy.  Environment Minister David Parker said the COVID-19 pandemic is a serious global crisis that will have a wide ranging and lasting impact ...
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    2 days ago
  • Advance payments to support contractors
    Advance payments will be made to transport construction industry contractors to retain the workforce and ensure it is ready to quickly gear up to build projects which will be vital to New Zealand’s COVID-19 economic recovery, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. He said keeping the workforce required to build ...
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    2 days ago
  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
    The Government has tasked a group of industry leaders to seek out infrastructure projects that are ready to start as soon as the construction industry returns to normal to reduce the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones say. The Infrastructure ...
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    3 days ago
  • Health system scaled up to prepare for COVID-19
    Work to scale up the health system in preparation for COVID-19 was today outlined by Health Minister David Clark, as he reported back to the new Epidemic Response Committee. “We are well placed to contain the spread of COVID-19. We have taken early and decisive action at our borders, and ...
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    3 days ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
    The Government is refining its COVID-19 essential business guidance to include the distribution of news publications for communities which are hard to reach. The Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media, Kris Faafoi, said the move was in recognition of the importance for New Zealanders who might be harder to ...
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    3 days ago
  • Supermarkets able to open on Easter Sunday
    The Government is ensuring supermarkets can open on Easter Sunday so we can buy groceries, but stay closed on Good Friday allowing workers to take a break. This provides a balanced approach and ensures we avoid large queues that two days closure may cause. “Supermarkets will be able to open ...
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    3 days ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
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    3 days ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
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    3 days ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
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    3 days ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
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    4 days ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
    The Government has fast-tracked up to $1 million to help Air New Zealand move urgent freight to and from New Zealand, with the first flight to Shanghai leaving tonight, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says it’s crucial that trade in vital goods such as medical supplies and ...
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    4 days ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
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    6 days ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
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    6 days ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
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    7 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
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    7 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
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    1 week ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
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    1 week ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
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    1 week ago
  • COVID-19 updates
    The Prime Minister is holding daily press conferences to update New Zealanders on the Government's response to COVID-19. Links to videos and transcripts of these updates below. These transcripts also include All of Government press conferences led by Director Ministry of Health's Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield. 25 March: Live update from the Prime ...
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    1 week ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
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    1 week ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
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    1 week ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
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    1 week ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
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    1 week ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
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    1 week ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
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    1 week ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
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    1 week ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
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    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
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    1 week ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
    People needing to travel on domestic flights, trains and Cook Strait ferries to get home before the country moves into level 4 lock-down tomorrow night will be able to continue using the passenger services until midnight on Friday, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Domestic passenger services, particularly ferries, have ...
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    1 week ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
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    1 week ago