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In praise of the bureaucracy

Written By: - Date published: 6:24 pm, February 23rd, 2011 - 116 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:

They’re doing a fantastic job.

The Civil Defence centre, the police, the ambulance services, the firemen, the hospitals, the army, the search and rescue specialists, the social services – they’re all part of the bureaucracy, as are all those who provide their back office support.

They’re organised, professional, responsive and courageous. They don’t get a great press and are often described collectively as a block to progress. They’re not called public servants for nothing.

Thank God they’re there when we need them.

116 comments on “In praise of the bureaucracy”

  1. kriswgtn 1

    They have done a outstanding job

  2. The Economic Illiteracy Support Group 2

    Hey hobbit, if you’re reading – this is what you pay your taxes for. And if you and your family are incredibly lucky in your lives, you may never meet nor need any of these selfless people and the limit of your involvement will be to occasionally stick your hand in your pocket.

  3. Kevyn Miller 3

    Only those who provide their back office support are actually part of the bureaucracy, those you heap praise on are more properly described as part of the technocracy. As long as the bureaucrats are working with or for the technocrats nobody need never object to their existence and malign them. The bureaucracy only get a bad rap when they stop working with/for the technocracy and start working with/for the democracy or for the bureaucracy.

    Thy are no more or less public servants than the people who own or work for the companies that built the fire engines and ambulances or even the patent holders for the jaws of life etc.

    • lprent 3.1

      Bullshit. The only reason that I didn’t add photos of hospital staff (put in a picture of chch hospital), social workers helping people to feed their kids, council staff organizing the services and checking buildings, people organizing the money to do all this, etc etc is that I couldn’t find photos.

      All of those things are required for disaster relief. It would only be a small minded git who has no idea of what is required – like yourself – who’d argue about meaningless distinctions.

      Update: I see tv1 has been interviewing across the emergency services. Currently council organizers.

    • McFlock 3.2

      Hey Kevyn,

      Who do you thinks makes sure that the frontline staff have as much equipment as they need, plans logistics for transport, assesses risks so the most value is gained from the meager dollar?

      The back office.

      You dick.

    • Dean 3.3

      You should see the work going on in wellington right now. And do you think that all these people train, employ, equip, fund, and coordinate themselves?
      The front line is nothing without the back office. And they are all public servants

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox 3.4

      Err.. so you mean those civil defence bureaucrats in their back office currently organising to get the search and rescue people to ChCh from all over the world. If not them who are these mythical bureaucrats that you talk about.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.5

      The bureaucracy only get a bad rap when they stop working with/for the technocracy and start working with/for the democracy or for the bureaucracy.

      According to Kevyn Miller, bureaucracy is bad when it helps to make democracy work. Of course, without the bureaucracy we would never have a democracy, what we would have instead would be a dictatorship.

      Have I mentioned before how much RWNJs hate democracy?

      • Kevyn Miller 3.5.1

        Draco, the difference between “democracy” and “the democracy” is as significant as the difference between energy and exergy.

        Those of us who have been trying to protect this city from this precise catastrophe for the past 20 years are absolutely effing pissed off with you political types of both the left and right who have prevented any effective action from being taken because it will push up rates or displace the poor or interfere with prescious proprty rights. This post is little better than th bullshit uninformd claims after the Sept 4 quak that nobody died bcaus bureaucrats gav us building standards when those buildings standards have never vn adrssd the main cause of death in the Napier quake which was parapets and facades collapsing onto footpaths. The real reason was the Napier quake had been our only big earthquake to strike during normal business hours thats why it had accounted for over 90% of all recorded arthquak deaths in this country.

        I’m not dissing those who are now forced to be traumatisd encountering dead bodies whil fixing power lines or carrying out highly skilled rescue work. Im just totally pissed with those claiming the state is brilliant for providing these services when the state and its lcted morons could hav put a fence at the top of cliff instead of the ambulance at the bottom but thats never going to happen as long as politics is rverred instead of rvild. And that applies to any and every organisatoin whether public or private, voluntary or paid.

        Apologis for the missing e’s. Being smart nough to know how to protct buildings and popl isnt the sam as bing smart enough to protect my own laptop from falling pc speakrs and now the e only works sometims.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Those of us who have been trying to protect this city from this precise catastrophe for the past 20 years are absolutely effing pissed off with you political types of both the left and right who have prevented any effective action from being taken because it will push up rates or displace the poor or interfere with prescious proprty rights.

          All of which seems to be RWNJ complaints.

          Im just totally pissed with those claiming the state is brilliant for providing these services when the state and its lcted morons could hav put a fence at the top of cliff instead of the ambulance at the bottom…

          You really are a fucken moron aren’t you? The state did put the fence at the top of the cliff – it was called building regulations.

  4. Andy (the other one) 4

    Bloody cheap and good insurance if you ask me! These people make me proud of my country.

    On another note Bill English stated that “the economy is fundamentally sound”, so bill why sell the assets and run down e civil service? Makes the BMW purchase ok though.

  5. ianmac 5

    When the need arises they work well beyond the hours of employment. Just thinking also of the those well out of sight, no hard hats but they have done the backroom stuff like communicating, accessing raw materials, paying the bills, sticking to budgets, and so on. And isn’t that great that those on the front line are free to carry out their hard graft with dedication and not being sidetracked with bureaucratic paper-wars. So praise to the front line and the backroom staff and no one in their right minds would trash their ranks. Would they?

  6. logie97 6

    When the dust settles people, the show pony politicians will go back to their business and meet with the likes of Rebstock, Kerr, O’Brien, Judge, Thompson and negotiate the salaries of these wonderful people.

    They’ll probably offer a cost of living rise if they are lucky. Just you wait.

    But who would you call on in an emergency…?

    • Do you include Phil Goff in the category of “show pony politicians” logie97? Personally. I have been impressed with the leadership shown by politicians from both of the main parties. Now is a time for Parliament to join together for the greater good, not for petty politicking.

      • logie97 6.1.1

        … no politicking there. Just a bit of truth and reality. The champions of industry are helpless in these situations and they are eternally grateful for the skills of the emergency services and systems that are in place. However, they have an inordinate amount of influence when it comes to the negotiating remuneration for todays public service heroes and you can bet they will not be backward in suggesting a tight rein on any rewards.

        • Rich Prick

          Oh, that is just sad, sorry logie97. What do the salaries of people have to do with the tradegy? Unless you are just a “class warfare” sort of leftie. Thanks for putting a price on it all. Not too sure what you expect of “champions of industry” based in Wellington and Auckland, for that matter. Start spinning the world backwards to turn back time perhaps.

          • lprent

            I can’t be bothered to check if you’re still on my kill list – probably since it went straight into moderation. I will let it through and keep an eye on you. You might have grown up to the point of being worth reading since I last saw you.

          • Draco T Bastard

            What do the salaries of people have to do with the tradegy?

            A) They’re not paid enough
            B) John Key, Bill English and the rest of the NACTs want to cut their pay – see wage freezes
            C) They don’t even want to hire them – see public service personnel and funding cuts
            All this would indicate that the NACTs have put a far lower price on it.

            What does all that have to do with such tragedy as has happened in Chch? Well, if we keep going the NACT way we won’t have the skilled people necessary when such disasters occur.

            • Rich Prick

              Good grief, you serrioulsy think that?

              • Zorr

                We don’t have to “think” that

                We know that from their actions and their policies…

                Hell, if they thought they could get away with it, they would be following Wisconsin’s lead right now…

  7. Kevyn Miller 7

    The only person trashing their ranks is the one trying to use them as poster boys/girls for the entire public service bureaucracy.

    From my experience the biggest heroes are the members of the regional engineering lifelines group who\’ve been preparing the region for this eventuality for 20 years.

  8. My wife’s cousin (a soldier) has been involved in body recovery in the Christchurch CBD today. There will be many heroes emerge from this disaster, and we should be eternally grateful for their willingness and commitment to serving.

    • lprent 8.1

      It is the secondary mission of the military in NZ to provide the trained people to bulk out the civil defense.

      Also the army trains medics own the road in Burnham. That has to be useful.

  9. What ever happened to the kiwi way of doing the business and not profiteering or politicking out of disaster and misery. Key has turned on the crocodile tears again, telling Canterbury to get in behind of the Govt – he means vote for it. A National Emergency – yeah right. A National Election he means.
    The contrast with the public servants couldnt be greater. They are the ones who do the job and don’t grandstand (except for the Colonel how gave a recruitment speech).
    Nice to see the LAVs earing some of their $2 mill price tag, and I hope the Unimogs don’t have to venture up on the Port Hills or they could be dangerous.

  10. Billy Fish 10

    Also an amazing ups to all the volunteers working on this one
    i see the Canterbury Uni students assoc are lining up to move in and assist again.
    Good thing they are still around before scum Hyde has shut them down

    • Cadwallader 10.1

      “Scum Hyde?” “Shut them down?” Eh?

      • Marty G 10.1.1

        reference to act’s private member’s bill to make it so student association membership can’t be compulsory – it would kill off the associations, like the canterbury one that is proving its worth once again.

        • Billy Fish

          Sorry I should have been more specific – oh and btw the reference to scum hyde is not poilitical – purely personal – would refer to him as that no matter what party he is in

          • Cadwallader

            You really are a delightful character aren’t you Mr Fish?

            I note that the armies of students assisting in the clean-up in CHCH are acting of their own volition and not as a result of overt compulsion imposed by the students Union. My son is a student at Canterbury, a reluctant union member, but a willing altruist.

            The problem with pro-Unionists insisting that it requires compulsion to bring out traits of human decency is that it denies the vitality of human dignity. Human dignity is a rare ingredient on this sad blog.

            • Jum

              Wrong Cadwallader,

              People will always help out in an emergency except for thosewould-be looters brought up in this greedy New Zealand to believe that they can have it now, and that they can take it without paying. Sort of reminds me of everything I hate about NAct and its worshippers.

              Unions help people to form a group that can defend the vulnerable against the greedy aforementioned, and to receive a fair pay for a fair day’s work – something NAct legislates to destroy.

              • Cadwallader

                Student Unions?

                • Jum

                  Student unions help younger people to understand that while it is important to be an individual, to help yourself to reach the highest level you are able to attain, win the accolades a winner deserves if you can, it is even more important not to ignore the fact that any decisions you make to get there may affect other people adversely – something John Key and his speculative run on the NZ$ ignored.

                  In fact, with the factual research on children now being shown that ‘give us a child from 0 to 3 and I will give you the adult’ the sooner they learn about group responsibility and compassion and learning to share, the better.

                  Not likely, though under a NAct government that rewards selfish narcissism to business which seeks to steal our assets with knighthoods and tax cuts.

                  • Cadwallader

                    You’re not a happy chappy are you Jum? A bit lonely? A bit greedy and envy ridden? Not popular with girls? Acne?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      lolz what a school yard bully you are Cad.

                      Also noted, a distinct inability to counter the points Jum made. So both a bully and dumb.

                    • Jum

                      LOL, Cadwallader,

                      I have to book my times on the computer to the point that loneliness is way off beam, just like you Cadwallader. Way, way, WAY off beam.

                      To me NAct is the acne on the beautiful face of New Zealand.
                      To me NAct has swallowed dead fish, smiled and waved, lied and misled to be popular and voted for. If NAct get into government again, then you will see true greed, Cadwallader, like locusts they will swarm over our New Zealand assets.

                      No, I’m not greedy and I’m not envy-ridden; I am certainly concerned about the calibre of Prime Minister that New Zealanders have voted in. A greedy moneytrader, Key, driven from an early age to grab everything he could because he thinks he missed out, yet he was fed and sheltered through good Labour government policies, received a wonderful free education then proceeded to remove and is doing so now all those same good things about New Zealand to pay for the $14billion of tax cuts that should never have been given to his friends, those who don’t need them – the Kerrs, the Fay Richwhites.

                      If you want to identify greed, Cadwallader, look at Key and his backers. The psychopathic behaviour of those people are something to be really afraid of. All the tax cuts now being used to buy up our assets with the money they got in tax cuts or payoffs through the Canterbury finance ripoff..

                      Fxxk off halfwit and go play on the road.

            • Billy Fish

              I agree that this is the altruist that is doign the job not the compulsed Cadwaller but infrastructure, assets and structure are there from the SU
              The \”compulsion\” means those structures exist and make the altruist easier to deploy.

              I don\’t believe I insisted that compulsion is required for decency at all. The altruism is what makes humanity great but having existing structures sure saves a lot of waste of time and effort.

              Issue is with someone (Hyde) who is such a two face and hypocrit suddenly remembering his dogmatic values to remove structures or processes that actually work – ie Student unions work – simple as that. Reference to scum is the way he took a party that had a philosophy and ideal and turned it into any damned catch all for remaining in power (WP anyone?)

              Same applies to Left wing politicians who though dogmatic overdrive dismantle viable structures.

          • Jum

            Billy Fish,
            You’re right about Hide. To me though, personally and politically he is pondscum.

            He lied to people in Hunua about the Franklin area staying out of Auckland and not being broken up. He lied in person to their faces about people sending a letter in to him and said their anti-supercity comments would be seriously considered. He forgot to tell them he was the decider. He had no intention of allowing a rich market garden/asset rich area to escape his claws. Those people did not even have a vote on it. Over 90% of them did not want to join Auckland.

            Whatever they think now, they were ignored by this arrogant government and this lying, arrogant bull.

  11. Ed 11

    Disaster response by a whole range of services has indeed been well handled – clear planning, willingness to cooperate and delegate, good use of volunteers, coordinated management of the overall situation.

    The need is now for that well planned but responsive organisation to be carried though to a faster, more responsive organisation of the role after the recovery has finished – and the challenge to government is to do better than the progress that was being made after the previous earthquake. That work should really have been underway already, as for too many Christchurch people it was working against them rather than for them.That will be the real test of this government; and they have until November to show that they are not just competent talking heads of our TV screens but that they have made real progress in getting Christchurch back on its feet.

  12. kultur 12

    a good solid and effective public service was always the backbone of New Zealands society and employment scene – that is until the neo-liberal dark lords of the sith fucked it over and reduced it to a shadow of its former self.

    These people are essential and they should be valued.

    And do remember boys and girls – just very very recently “dead eyes” key …. was proposing cuts in the public service. Perhaps the fuckwit may be realising that may have been premature.

    Perhaps he could cut back on all the dollybirds in the PM’s department … it might help him keep his mind on the job at hand.

    Mr Key will try to make capital out of this disaster – and if the electorate has any balls they wont let the conniving little lowlife gambler get away with it … he can make his impassioned speeches all he wants … the only people worth any accolades are the Cantabrians and those who are helping out … he is just an overdressed BMW buying piece of shit scraped off the bottom of the collective new zealand shoe.

    While we all struggle – and Christchurch suffers – Johnny, Maxie, floosie and Bronagh can bugger off to Hawaii and then wait to go to the UK for the wedding … i mean shit happens – but hey i’ve got shitloads of money and the polls say people love me ….

    • Rich Prick 12.1

      Yes, nothing like a “public service” with its pads of forms to fill out in an emergency. Regrettably, those pads of forms awaiting to be filled out do nothing for those in need of physical help.

      It might just strike you as odd that Key has declared a national emergency to by-pass the public service and its pads of forms that you so love, to errr, get things done.

      • Rich Prick 12.1.1

        Oh, and kultur, John Key’s daughter has a name and it is not “floosie”. Perhaps you could leave the family of the devil you hate out of your invective. Cheers.

        • kultur

          Thats cool RP … gotta say that John Keys reach touches all our families … very personally and thats the downside of him being a no holds barred politician. Im honoured you took note of the reference.

          As PM he is inserted into my and every other citizens daily life whether we like it or not .. and it was and is by his personal choice .. so the outcome of that chosen exposure is inevitable.

          Floosie – flossie – sophie – it could be anything – more a stocking filler in the sentence actually …but it got noticed you have to admit that …

          nec tamen consumebatur

      • Colonial Viper 12.1.2

        Yes, nothing like a “public service” with its pads of forms to fill out in an emergency. Regrettably, those pads of forms awaiting to be filled out do nothing for those in need of physical help.

        Boy, I bet you hated all that useless ‘Building Code’ paper work that the ‘public service’ insisted upon on when building properties in Christchurch. Why not just scrap it all, we don’t need enforced building standards do we? 🙄

        It might just strike you as odd that Key has declared a national emergency to by-pass the public service

        To by pass the public service? Are you an idiot? To what, give work to private hospitals, private ambulances and private fire stations? What?

        Sounds like you think it would be fun and productive to run a society in the ad-hoc, expedited, urgent state of emergency all the time.

        Give you a clue – in a state of emergency, certain shortcuts and new powers are required to get the urgent stuff done ASAP because of severe time constraints. Like people dying of thirst. Those shortcuts make a mess, cost a lot of money, cause a degree of mayhem and loss, but its worth it because lives are at stake.

        I guess the only time you like paperwork is the deed which shows the world that you own your house, and the paperwork which lets you pass international ports. Or would you like to go ahead and burn that paperwork too? 🙄

        Idiot lolz

      • Ed 12.1.3

        At present some of the more important bits of ‘paper shuffling’ include working out who is still missing, where people are that have been rescued, following up queries from relatives throughout New Zealand and overseas, monitoring time spent on trams, equipment and supplies needed, arranging accommodation for rescue workers, liaising with other governments and incoming teams of relatives and workers, sorting out who is doing what on the ground, organising teams to go to different parts of the city . . . and making sure that everyone in need gets assistance as soon as possible consistent with resources and need, without forgetting anyone.

        Of course some of that ‘paperwork’ is electronic, but it still needs to be done by employees of government and Councils.

      • Vicky32 12.1.4

        Er, the term is “fill in”. Fill out is a meaningless, and as they all are, inaccurate Americanism.

  13. Fisiani 13

    Good that there is agreement that the backroom service whilst more rationalised is still very effective.

    [lprent: you’re early – the ban ends after the weekend. But I will drop the ban since I went to the effort of looking it up and it is easier to kill it now. ]

  14. Sonny Blount 14

    This thread is the lowest class thing I have seen in NZ in the last 24 hours.

    Short of the looters.

    • The Voice of Reason 14.1

      And yet you felt compelled to come join us. Go figure.

      • Crashcart 14.1.1

        I’m trying to work out why its low to sing the praises of those working hard to help in Can. Oh thats right, it’s low when it makes you feel ashamed for all the time you spent bashing on those same people not 1 week ago. I am sure the PM will forget all the things he said for now.

        • Carol

          About as low class as Key’s very high profile, well publicised-in-the-media, conference with business leaders to draw attention to how much the business moguls are trying to contribute to the earthquake relief effort?

          • Jum

            To continue, Carol, about as low class as Key, Parker, etc. mainly and deliberately mentioning the countries coming to help that will be the same countries coming to sign up the TPPA in November, which will cede our sovereignty to a bunch of corporates overseas, raise our drug prices and open us up to the government being sued if it tries to legislate for a public good. But if NAct continues in government after November 2011 that is a mute point.

    • Jum 14.2

      Sonny Blount, Then you haven’t visited kiwiblog lately.

  15. Rich Prick 15

    No Colonial, you mis-understand and missed the point that I was responding to. kultur was making the mis-guided point that National has cut essential services (read fire, ambulance and medical) which is patently untrue. Therefore one can only asume what kultur means is public servants eleswhere, having nothing to do with emergency services. To which I say, so what.

    His/her post seems to be more about Key’s wealth and holiday home and presumably that of mine, which is not too dissimilar, and being a rich prick and all. The only difference being that kultur just doesn’t know my children’s names. Go re-read his/her comment.

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      Let me think…don’t emergency standards depend on good building standards? On reliable telecoms standards and power supply? On hospitals which are fully staffed and equipped? On an educated public who can follow instructions and help out? On those who are distressed within their own ranks to receive counselling and pay? On the availability of budgets for emergency spending?

      Who makes sure all that societal infrastructure shit works in an emergency and can be used by the emergency services?

      Hmmmmm…other public servants, who would’ve thought.

      So fraking narrow minded, no idea of how interlocking systems work, no idea how good back office support of the front lines is crucial, e.g. if you want the soldiers in battle to be fed and to have bullets. *Sigh*

      By the way I agree with you – pollies’ families should be left out of these discussions, as a general rule they are off limits.

      • Rich Prick 15.1.1

        oh look I don’t disargee with any of that. I do disagree with kultur’s comments above. That’s all.

        • Colonial Viper

          Oh coz I thought you were saying that the public service were useless pricks for making people fill out pads of forms in an emergency and that they needed to be “by passed” by Prime Ministerial order.

          At least, I’m pretty sure thats what you said when I scrolled up and read it. Oh here it is:

          Yes, nothing like a “public service” with its pads of forms to fill out in an emergency. Regrettably, those pads of forms awaiting to be filled out do nothing for those in need of physical help.

          It might just strike you as odd that Key has declared a national emergency to by-pass the public service and its pads of forms

  16. kultur 16

    No RP .. national is suggesting etc etc cuts to the public service

    Keys wealth and holiday home are more included as window dressing to his overall demeanour and lack of connection (as i see it).

    I didnt ask you whether you were a rich prick RP – i didnt say anything about that at all (that may be a freudian slip where you wanted me to presume this perhaps ) … i presumed your stage name was more sort of an aspirational statement. Your first name may be ‘Rich” short for Richard or “dick” .. and you may be a prick – or you may have a prick – or indeed you may have been pricked by something. The creative side of that is entirely up for grabs.

    Et in arcadia Ego

  17. Rich Prick 17

    Heh, nah kultur, just pinning the badge that Michael Cullen gave me a few years ago. Still, it could have been tattooed had the reigeme got too carried away, so I was just pleased they stopped at the top end envy tax rate. But yes I am I suppose a rich prick, and I have tax efficient means to deliver an acceptable income. Of which I donate a bit to chartity btw, only because of the tax efficiency I have. This quarter it will all be going to Red Cross and the Salvation Army in Canterbury. Its not much. But I hope that it helps.

    • kultur 17.1

      Cool RP .. more power to you …. no problem ever with people doing well.

      Its just when they start running the country and operating without a plan that the problems start. always a problem if people see their success as being entirely the result of their own brilliance – rather than understanding that luck, providence, and the right place at the right time … and a lot of hard work may possibly be a more balanced viewpoint.

      Then they dont enforce a narrow paradigm on others who also have something to offer to the world at large.

      You sound and seem like a very interesting person.

      By the by … i never liked michael cullen – always irritated me to the max. For that matter i never liked Helen Clark either.

      There is room for all of us – rich pricks and poor pricks … and anyone inbetween .. the glory of kiwi culture and practice and a left leaning labour led Government with Phil Goff as PM

      • Rich Prick 17.1.1

        Hehe, isn’t it funny, there are plenty of National MP’s that annoy me. And now and then I share my views at Kiwiblog in the hope the MP I’m having a moment with reads it, chances are they will. It is just that the last Labour led government that did it’s term so arrogantly and made it so personalwith tax and comments like “we won, you lost, eat that”.

        But this thread is about Canterbury.

        Nice to read your reply just the same, I had mistakenly had you pegged as a derranged leftie 😉 Attitude changed.

        • Jum

          Rich Prick, Dick, whatever, You are lying when you say that Labour’s Dr Cullen used the term “we won, you…:”.

          That was yet another lie that NAct made up.

          This thread is about people. People make Canterbury.

    • kultur 17.2

      Good for you RP … i have a lot of admiration for the old families throughout nz for instance who saw the need to be philanthropic and give back to the community.

      I may be a rabid left winger … and i was rude about John Keys family (but you have my points to hand about that) …. but i can respect anothers philanthropy and viewpoint.

      I’ll just bet you play a mean game of tennis and snooker …

      • Rich Prick 17.2.1

        Heh, no I play league and sail, I’m not old enough nor botoxed enough for tennis or snooker.

    • Crashcart 17.3

      I doubt you would donate as much as you cream by using tax holes. Not saying you don’t but I doubt it. What makes me laugh is people who avoid tax rob more from the government than benificiaries who commit fraud. Never hear that story from Key unless he is using it for an excuse to give high income earners (lke myself) a tax cut.

      • Cadwallader 17.3.1

        The generalisations flow from you like the overflow from a nightcart, not a crashcart (whatever that is?)

    • felix 17.4

      RP: “just pinning the badge that Michael Cullen gave me a few years ago.”

      Not true, Prick. Cullen called John Key a rich prick. Unless you are John Key (in which case go do some fucking work) then Cullen never called you any such thing.

      The people who called you and all other wealthy people “rich pricks” were David Farrar, Matthew Hooten, Don Nicholson, a handful of dimwits around the blogs such as burt, Redbaiter, big bruv etc. They are the ones who decided that if Key is rich AND a prick, then therefore ALL rich people are also pricks.

      They are the ones who called you names, Prick. Go have your whinge at them.

      RP: “Still, it could have been tattooed had the reigeme got too carried away, so I was just pleased they stopped at the top end envy tax rate.”

      Oh I see, you’re actually seriously brain-damaged. You seriously think the last govt. were on the road to actual fasc1m and naz1sm and tattooing people. This explains why you fall so easily for the ridiculous bullshit from the aforementioned. It all makes more sense now.

      RP: ” But yes I am I suppose a rich prick”

      I neither know nor care about your wealth but based on what you’ve written here you are definitely a prick. A very stupid prick.

  18. Rich Prick 18

    Crashcart, what evidence do you have that I don’t give as much as I save? l ask for your evidence. Otherwise you are actaully calling me dishonest.

    What is it with you lefties? I say I do something and you jump up and say “well we don’t “think” so”. I shall put you to the burden of proof and demand you prove me wrong. Go on. Prove me wrong. Usual evidence principles apply as do High Court Rules. Get to work.

    [lprent: crashcart has his own political style and isn’t particularly a classic left one. You could be less of a lazy prick and search using @author before mouthing off. It would make you look a little less ignorant. ]

    • McFlock 18.1

      Nah, CC only said they doubted your honesty. As do I.

      A bit like if I said “I think you’re a self-absorbed, arrogant, ignorant fucktard” as opposed to saying “you are a self-absorbed, arrogant, ignorant fucktard”.
      The latter is an objective assertion that requires additional proof to confirm its truth. The former’s truth is confirmed simply by my stating it without any sarcasm or untruthfulness. Do you understand the difference, Prick?

    • Rich Prick 18.2

      I just read what I see here and respond, I have no interest in surfing the net and was not aware that this is some sort of study course. I am not ignorant.

      • Colonial Viper 18.2.1

        Reactionary, yet disinterested? Not ignorant yet only narrow in outlook?

      • McFlock 18.2.2

        The “ignorant” came from your basic confusion between an allegation of empirical fact and a statement of personal belief (or lack thereof).

  19. Rich Prick 19

    Prove me wrong McFlock? You haven’t with that effort. Come on, lets have some evidence that I do not give a shit-load to charity. Or shut up. Which might be the wise thing for you to do.

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      Dude why should we “prove” anything about *you*? Are you really worth it? Would we really pay for a P.I. to check out all your inane internet based claims?

      I mean, if you really give a shit-load of your millions to charity as you claim, why don’t you prove it to *US* mate. I mean, you have access to all your receipts etc so you could do it in 3 minutes.

      But really we don’t give a shit.

    • mcflock 19.2

      Prick, are you demanding proof of a negative?

      I have amended my opinion of you by adding “moronic” to the list.

      I simply find it difficult to believe that a self-described “prick” who regurgitates the same old stereotypes about public servants and bureaucracy gives more to help his fellow human beings live and thrive than he would under a progressive and equitable tax system. Theoretically possible, but not the most likely scenario.

      A real prick would save money with tax cuts and claim to give to charity, or if they lacked that level of self-awareness about being a true prick then they might pay a modest amount (significantly less than their tax cut) to charity and say “what a good boy am I, you lefties are so mean about us and it’s so unjustified”.

      • Rich Prick 19.2.1

        I do give all of what I save away. I doubt I shall re-visit this site. Its aweful. And really says what is what is wrong with the left. I do what I think is right and I get mcflock saying those things. If I banked it and kept it for myself, no doubt you would hate that too. What should I do, turn it into paper and burn it in the backyard? The smoke would really annoy the Greens. God, the left is hard to please. Not that I ought to have to “please” any bunch of politburo types. I’d rather just go fishing.

  20. Thank God they’re there when we need them.

    Indeed they are. Though there’d have been even more of them if the politicians had listened to the people in 1995 and obeyed the decision of the referendum demanding they not cut firefighter numbers.

    87% voted “no” (i.e. don’t reduce the numbers) but the Bolger government raised the middle finger and cut nonetheless. There were 1819 firefighters on January 1, 1995, 1573 in 1998 and 1702 in 2009.

    Maybe we knew best, huh?

  21. Chris73 21

    Seriously lefties and righties STFU!

    This is not the time to be petty and to be trying to score points, there are people dead, dying and missing.

    I’m probably going to be shovelling silt today whereas on here most (but not all) seem to be shovelling shit, save it for another time

    • kriswgtn 21.1

      Talking to my sister in CHCH last night
      2 gripes she has

      No portalooos and no water in Somerfield(hope i spelt this right) and she has no idea of where to go to get water.

      she has 5 kids from 15 down to 5 yrs….
      Her workplace caught fire, her hubbys workplace was destroyed

      and she is pissed off cos all the focus seems to be on the CBD (again)

      • IrishBill 21.1.1

        Looks like they’re starting to get out to the suburbs today.

        • kriswgtn

          yeah thank god

          having 5 kids + 2 adults who have 2 buckets to shit in =not good

          texted her to tell her to send hubby and kids to pioneer stadium with anything that can hold water early as 🙂

      • melvee1 21.1.2

        I live in CHCH… a Couple of gripes I have.

        1, People who expect others to go out of their way to help them when they are capable of helping themselves. Information about Water etc.. is available all over the city. Tell your sister to go and get it.
        2, The CBD is where the dead and trapped are.. that is why there is a focus there. I have to pee in a bucket too. I am not complaining, I am going out to help people who are in worse conditions than me and my family.
        3, People in other parts of the country who sit there in there safe and cottonwool bound lives and cast judgement on those in peril.

        I have read some crap in my time but this makes me angry. I signed up here for this one time to let my feelings known and I will not return. You are all sad, strange little people and I pity you in your little bubble worlds. You have no idea what you are talking about and as such you should say nothing…. except maybe words of support to Canterbury.

        • lprent

          Note: This commentator was actually from Christchurch from the IP.

          I have trashed a couple of similar comments from first time commentators over the past few days that were from other places in the country and claiming to be from Christchurch. Personally I found that pretty strange.

          Sorry about your first comment. Another moderator thought it was just another wannabe political point scorer and put it in spam. I saw it and trashed it without checking first.

          Despite your opinion of our site – I wish you a better future over the next few days.

  22. logie97 22

    Don’t try to grab the moral high ground. This post is about singing the praises of some real champions.

    captcha: justifications

    • chris73 22.1

      I have no problems with praise being given (the guys and girls out there doing it and organising it are doing great work) but its the petty point scoring (on both sides) that I think is wrong

      I have no problem with robust debate but to use this disaster to score cheap points is wrong, this is a time where political differences should be put aside to help people in need

      Robust political discourse (why I come here) should be for other posts

  23. Go on, guys politicise this.

    Yeah, thats a good move.

    • Colonial Viper 23.1

      Hey X, its political. From the level of help people get, what Government does to compensate individuals and businesses, the decisions taken to rebuild and how, organising the clean up – and who pays for it, emergency budget decisions and manpower decisions, etc.

      Its political, all of it.

      Don’t you understand that?

    • Marty G 23.2

      how is this politicised? surely it’s indisputable that the public service is doing a great and heroic job

  24. Alistair 24

    I sympathise with The Standards cause, but the language here and the tone is not going to help the Left win votes. Right leaning blogs are not focusing on the intent of the article. Instead, they focus on the rhetoric and style of response. Why give them the chance to ignore the main issue?

    [lprent: The Standard is a program and has no purpose in itself. If you read the about you will see the very broad purposes of the founders. If you look in the policy you will see my view on people assigning intelligence to a machine. Direct your statements at people. ]

    • kriswgtn 24.1


      you sure about this
      these cocks are right wingers and they are blaming the gays

      suck it up

      • chris73 24.1.1

        They are not right-wingers, they’re f**ked in the head (or religious fundamentalists, whatever term you prefer)

        • Draco T Bastard

          “religious fundamentalists” are invariably RWNJs.

          • chris73

            No they’re not, I wouldn’t call a Moslim suicide bomber a right-winger however religious fundamentalists may well gravitate towards being right wing only because its closer to their views then being left wing but I would suggest they (the religious) probably think normal right wing beliefs are too liberal

            • Colonial Viper

              Hmmmm…neither the Bible nor the Koran says anything much about freemarket neo-liberalism, which seems to be what has taken over the Right Wing of politics. In fact, in the history of both those old religious traditions, interest bearing debt was seen as something extremely dangerous, unsavoury, and to be avoided. The world would be a better place if we’d stuck on that track.

              The focus of Right Wing politics now seems to be more about corporate wealth and corporate power than anything else.

              They used to be about fiscal and social conservatism for better communities but of course that’s long since gone now.

              • Jum

                Colonial Viper
                That’s what I’ve been telling my Nat friends; the Nat party they used to vote for is no longer. It has been infiltrated by extreme rightwingers (read The Hollow Men-I’m sure you have) with greed and selfish narcissism the current mantra.

                National voters are actually voting for Act.

            • felix

              That’s a stunning bit of writing, chris73. Let’s take it one statement at a time with a wee pause now and then so’s as you can reflect on the meaning as you go.

              1. I wouldn’t call a Moslim suicide bomber a right-winger.

              2. religious fundamentalists may well gravitate towards being right wing only because its closer to their views then being left wing

              3. they (the religious) probably think normal right wing beliefs are too liberal

              Um, you’re a moron. You make my eyes bleed. In a just world your computer would be confiscated and put to better use in a botnet selling hard-on pills.

              • chris73

                In essence religious fundamnetalists arn’t truly right-wing its just a convenient label to put on them

                But hey if calling people names on a post rather then debate the points is the best you can do…

                • The Voice of Reason

                  I guess you you aren’t too clear on how these things are defined, Chris. But let me give you some context.

                  If your religion of choice is patriarchal then it’s right wing. That’s most of them right there. Anti-gay? Right wing. Opposed to unions? Right wing. Willing to kill adherents of other religions? Right wing. Insistent on being the official state religion? Right wing. Intolerant, bigoted, child raping, unscientific, denialist? Right wing.

                  Religions are inherently conservative and when they enter the field of politics, it is almost inevitably on the side of capital against the best interests of their own followers.

                • Pascal's bookie

                  It would be helpful, chris, if you actually made a point to debate.

                  ‘right’ and ‘left’ are convenient labels, and that is all they are. When you try to define their essence you get into all sorts of trouble if in doing so you exclude large sections of the political actions that in reality take place.

                  So let’s look at some concrete questions from the real world.

                  1) Do social conservatives tend to vote and campaign for ‘right wing’ parties?

                  2) Do they tend to campaign and agitate against the social policies of ‘left wing’ parties?

                  3) Do the MPs of ‘right wing’ parties vote in the house along the lines of social conservatives more often than the MPs of ‘left wing’ parties do?

                  If the answers to those questions are “Why yes bookie, they do indeed” then that seems to be fairly good reason to label social conservatives as ‘right wing’.

                  Your initial complaint was that these particular people are too extreme and it is unfair to associate them with the centre right, which is fair enough*, but that just means they are even more right wing than the centre right. It doesn not mean that they are not right wing.

                  *It is fair enough only up to a point however, if the centre right is happy enough to dog whistle for their votes then it is only fair to point out the association. It is also fair to ask how far the centre right is prepared to go in denouncing these types of views. Are they prepared to say for example, that “we don’t want your votes, and the laws you are complaining about are just and moral, fuck off back into your holes, we have a secular state thank you very much”

                • felix

                  Oh ffs chris73, your “points” entirely contradict each other without even breaking for a full stop!

                  I thought I’d spelled that out pretty clearly for you. Let me try again…

                  1. I wouldn’t call a Moslim suicide bomber a right-winger.

                  Fine, don’t. But then you go on to say:

                  2. (a) religious fundamentalists may well gravitate towards being right wing

                  Ok, so now “moslim” extremists can be right wing. Contradiction one.

                  2. (b) only because its closer to their views then being left wing

                  Yep, amazingly that’s how it works. But anyway we’re still in agreement, these Islam nutjobs are pretty right wing. Goodo.

                  3. they (the religious) probably think normal right wing beliefs are too liberal

                  See what you did there? You now think they’re so far to the right that they’re more right wing than all the other right wing extremists!

                  So in one sentence you’ve started from They’re not right-wing at all, then softened to they’ve got more in common with the right than with the left, and then ended up all the way over at they’re more right wing than anyone else in the world!

                  Your name isn’t Chris Waldorf or perhaps Chris Statler by any chance is it?

                  • chris73

                    I apoligise that I haven’t stated my points clearly as I was in a rush and had other things on my mind, today I helped pull down someones chimney, tomorrow I’ll be helping out at other peoples houses that are damaged and next week no doubt I’ll be on the end of shovel.

                    Yes I am shamelessly using the fact I’m part of the bureaucracy (see the heading of this post) helping to fix my city to make you out-of-towners dissing me feel a bit crap

                    (Waldorf and Statler were my favourite muppets)

                    • felix

                      Yawn. You stated them very clearly, it’s just that they were moronically self-contradictory.

                      That’s not because you’re busy or stressed, it’s because you’re a moron. You write this way all the time. Are you so busy and stressed all the time that you can never gather your thoughts coherently enough to write a short comment on a blog? Then maybe you should find another hobby, you kinda suck at this one.

                      Or maybe you’re just full of shit and trying to exploit a tragedy to cover your own shortcomings. Either way I can’t be bothered with you any longer.

  25. chris 25


    Seriously – the people who write shit like that are fuckwits first and foremost, then crazy morons, then just poor sad people. Political leanings come way down their list of ‘faults’ as human beings.

    As someone who is right of ACT – even I can happily say people like that disgust me. Predijuce and racism are not political viewpoints.

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      *Shakes head* nothing like American style end-of-days Christian evangelism. Beware the wrath and anger of the Almighty smiting down yee evil little humans.

  26. Daveo 26

    I’m passing through Chch next week and would like to be able to help out. Does anyone know what sort of stuff I should take down? Food? Water? Blankets?

    • lprent 26.1

      Non-powered telephones is one thing that they need.

    • Zorr 26.2

      I would advise changing your travel plans. The best thing anyone can do at the moment is stay out of the way. I only just recently left Christchurch and was there for the Sept 4 quake. They will still be struggling when you are coming through so best to give it a wide berth and not place any extra strain on the system.

      • Daveo 26.2.1

        I’m unlikely to leave state highway one but figured that seeing as I was passing through/by I could drop some stuff in.

    • Lanthanide 26.3

      Mostly charities such as the Red Cross just want money. They especially don’t want secondhand clothes (too difficult to sort, clean distribute etc), bedding might be more generally usable though.

      Food would always be good, and water. As to where you should deliver it, I don’t know.

      • Billy Fish 26.3.1

        Best thing is money – plus requests for personal sanitary products, baby stuff, bedding are from the Civil Defence shelters.
        Old clothes go to your local Sallies branch and they can deal with them

  27. ianmac 27

    My older sister in Christchurch and her 82 year old husband live in the western suburb of Brydnwr. They grow an extensive vege garden and he is always fixing things in his garage. Their comment this morning after they started getting a trickle of water but no power, was that they seemed to be managing because they have always adapted to change and saw adversity as a challenge to be met. A sort of can-do self-motivated positiveness. Maybe that’s why the other neighbours flock to their house for help and advice. (He was on the elderly neighbours roof removing a fallen chimney.)

    I bet there are many just like them who still have that ability to cope, though now they are weary of quakes, and the mood has changed sadly from the September buoyancy.

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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Funding for Kaipara district community waste programmes
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    4 days ago
  • Government will support the people and economy of Southland
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    4 days ago
  • New transformational tools for the Predator Free 2050 effort
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    4 days ago
  • New Armoured vehicles for New Zealand Army
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    4 days ago
  • Community-led solutions to prevent family violence
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    5 days ago
  • Govt confirms investment in better radiology and surgical services for Hawke’s Bay
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  • Specialist alcohol and drug addiction services strengthened across New Zealand
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    5 days ago
  • Coastal Shipping Webinar
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    5 days ago
  • Support for resilient rail connection to the West Coast
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    5 days ago
  • Major investment in safe drinking water
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    5 days ago
  • Supporting stranded seasonal workers to keep working with more flexible options
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    5 days ago
  • Relief for temporary migrants, employers and New Zealanders who need work
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    6 days ago
  • Freshwater commissioners and fast-track consenting convenor appointed
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  • Appointment of Judge of the High Court
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    6 days ago
  • Feedback sought – Commercial Film and Video Production Facilities
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  • Govt launches bold primary sector plan to boost economic recovery
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    6 days ago
  • Wellbeing of whanau at heart of new hub
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    6 days ago
  • New Report on Auckland Port Relocation
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    6 days ago
  • Dual place names for Te Pātaka-o-Rākaihautū / Banks Peninsula features
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  • Government and Air New Zealand agree to manage incoming bookings
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    6 days ago
  • $80 million for sport recovery at all levels
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    6 days ago
  • Keeping ACC levies steady until 2022
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    7 days ago
  • Extended loan scheme keeps business afloat
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    1 week ago
  • New investment creates over 2000 jobs to clean up waterways
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    1 week ago
  • Speech to Labour Party Congress 2020
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  • PGF top-up for QE Health in Rotorua
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    1 week ago
  • Building a more sustainable construction sector
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    1 week ago