Israel threatens sanctions against New Zealand

132 comments on “Israel threatens sanctions against New Zealand ”

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1. Carolyn_nth 1

   27 December 2016 at 10:41 am

   An interesting related article by Glenn Greenwald.

   While Netanyahu attacks Obama, it seems that, under Obama, the US government has given Israel billions of dollars aid, mainly for its military – making it the best armed country int he middle east – and one of the most technologically advance militaries in the world.. Meanwhile, 10% of US citizens have no health care coverage.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     27 December 2016 at 10:52 am

     The US has been giving billions of dollars per year to Israel for decades and most of it has gone to their military.
     • Macro 1.1.1

       27 December 2016 at 11:43 am

       Exactly! – To single out Obama is simply crass cherry picking at its worst.
       • joe90 1.1.1.1

         27 December 2016 at 11:57 am

         Indeed.

         Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date, the United States has provided Israel $124.3 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in bilateral assistance.

         U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel 2015
2. Draco T Bastard 2

   27 December 2016 at 10:50 am

   Either International Law holds and prevents the worst excesses of human right abuse and international conflict or the barbarians win and anything can happen.

   The barbarians have been winning for awhile. They think that they’ve got the rest of us pinned down and that they can do what they want.

   I believe that they’re about to find out that they were always wrong.
   • garibaldi 2.1

     27 December 2016 at 11:09 am

     Bring it on, all you Zionist pricks.
     • Red 2.1.1

       27 December 2016 at 11:28 am

       Not to mention you anti semetic pricks
       • WILD KATIPO 2.1.1.1

         27 December 2016 at 12:31 pm

         Red.

         You’re an idiot.

         And a spreader of fallacies.

         A Zionist is not necessarily Semitic.

         Stop being a racist in you’re ignorance. And stop trying to pretend you didn’t know the difference. Even most of the Rabbi’s are dead against extreme Zionism.
         • weka 2.1.1.1.1

           27 December 2016 at 12:54 pm

           and garibaldi didn’t say extreme Zionist pricks.

           How about we all try and not act out our aggressions here, and instead find a different way to interact. All things considered.
           • marty mars 2.1.1.1.1.1

             27 December 2016 at 12:56 pm

             I sense that may be difficult for some.
             • weka …

               27 December 2016 at 1:20 pm

               true, and the ones that want to can try despite the difficulty (not sure what to do about the ones that don’t want to).
           • WILD KATIPO 2.1.1.1.1.2

             27 December 2016 at 1:05 pm

             The connotations were there nonetheless.

             Red is equating ‘ Zionists’ with automatically being Jewish. And that is not the case. And that’s the problem with those who use that term as an emotive one. Usually knowing full well what reaction it will elicit.

             Most of those not so informed will fail to see the difference. However in Reds case, he/she would have known full well that any mention of Zionist conjures up the image of it being exclusively Jewish.

             Its time we all stopped with this patronizing perpetuation of fallacies and letting ourselves be sucker punched..
             • weka …

               27 December 2016 at 1:19 pm

               sure. And nevertheless, my point stands. What I saw was a sequence of people wanting to start hitting (and each no doubt feeling justified in that). Given the context I thought it made more sense to find other ways of engaging.
           • Red 2.1.1.1.1.3

             27 December 2016 at 5:43 pm

             My point exactly, even though a bit to subtle for WK The use of “you” was not referring to garibaldi but highlighting the offensive nature of his point if in reverse I do know the difference Wk I lived in Israel for some time
         • HDCAFriendlyTroll 2.1.1.1.2

           28 December 2016 at 8:35 am

           So you think the Jewish people shouldn’t have a homeland?

           Ohhhkay.

           And what’s “extreme Zionism”? Is it Zionists who like really, really, really, want a Jewish homeland. You know, as opposed to those Zionists who just want a Jewish homeland like maybe, possibly?
           • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.2.1

             28 December 2016 at 8:47 am

             So you think no-one will notice your pathetic strawman argument, dickhead?

             Ohhhkkaaayyy.
           • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.2.2

             28 December 2016 at 11:36 am

             Why should they be allowed, and even encouraged, to steal another peoples homeland?
       • Henry Balfour 2.1.1.2

         27 December 2016 at 11:38 pm

         Joos (and by this I refer to Ashekenazim) are not Semites. Sephardic Jews are Semites. And, moron, learn to spell “Semite”
         • WILD KATIPO 2.1.1.2.1

           28 December 2016 at 10:01 am

           ‘ (and by this I refer to Ashekenazim) ‘

           Originally immigrants and refugees from Kazakhstan / Khazars. Migrated from there and into East Europe after Byzantine Constantinople and the Russians defeated their kingdom in the 10th century AD.

           Became proselyte Jews around the time or soon after the sacking of Jerusalem by Titus 70 AD.

           Originally of Slavic origin.
           • GregJ 2.1.1.2.1.1

             28 December 2016 at 8:10 pm

             The Khazar Theory of Ashkenazi ancestry is pretty much discredited now. Modern DNA testing and research shows Ashkenazi share substantial genetic ancestry derived from a common Ancient Middle Eastern founder population, and that Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic ancestry attributable to Khazars (who were a Turkic people not Slavs).

             Additionally the concept of a mass conversion of the Khazars to Judaism has a number of historiographical and polemical problems. The 9th Century Khazar Kingdom is not very well documented or understood.

             The theory was prominent in Soviet anti-semitism and It’s been adopted recently as a specific anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic crutch to discredit the concept of Jewish nationhood.

             I suggest you leave it well alone.
             • One Two …

               28 December 2016 at 8:23 pm

               “ i suggest you leave it well alone

               When attempting to shut down a thread using such words as “discredited”, providing links or citation of sorts would assist the case you try to make

               When you provide the citation , counters can be provided ‘discrediting’ yours…

               History. .. manufactured claptrap!
               • GregJ …

                 28 December 2016 at 8:50 pm

                 I don’t really have to make a case, The scholarship consensus is pretty complete on it now (a bit like the consensus on climate change). I’m sure Wild Katipo can carry out their own research if they want to. Even a simple Google search will find a Wikipedia entry on the theory and the current state of research.

                 However I’ll give you a start:

                 Atzmon, Gil, Li Hao, Itsik Pe’er, Christopher Velez, Alexander Pearlman, Pier Francesco Palamara, Bernice Morrow, Eitan Friedman, Carole Oddoux, Edward Burns, and Harry Ostrer. 2010. “Abraham’s Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry”. The American Journal of Human Genetics, 86: 850–859.

                 Behar, Doron M, Bayazit Yunusbayev, Mait Metspalu, Ene Metspalu, Saharon Rosset, Jüri Parik, Siiri Rootsi, Gyaneshwer Chaubey, Ildus Kutuev, Guennady Yudkovsky, Elza K. Khusnutdinova, Oleg Balanovsky, Ornella Semino, Luisa Pereira, David Comas, David Gurwitz, Batsheva Bonne-Tamir, Tudor Parfitt, Michael F. Hammer, Karl Skorecki1, and Richard Villems. 2010. “The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people”. Nature, 466: 238–242.

                 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/08/ashkenazi-jews-are-probably-not-descended-from-the-khazars/#.WGNtulN959O
                 • One Two …

                   28 December 2016 at 10:02 pm

                   “Pretty complete” , “Probably not”

                   Scholarship consensus…

                   Not at all convincing. Not even close

                   I suggest you leave it well alone if that’s the ‘strength’ of the position you’re tailgating on
                   • GregJ …

                     28 December 2016 at 10:19 pm

                     Science eh? I understand why it’s probably difficult for you.

                     Oh and in the spirit of 2016…fuck off!
                 • One Two …

                   29 December 2016 at 12:14 am

                   It’s nothing to do with ‘science’ , but it’s not at all a suprise you believe to be

                   Your final sentence could well be in jest, I don’t know that one way or another

                   What it does confirm is you have no confidence in the premise of the retort to WK, as if that wasn’t emphatically clear

                   Statements such as “I don’t really need to make a case. ..” and the ” Scholarship consensus. ..” was an abdication on your part

                   The ‘appeal to (science) authority’ was feeble to tragic

                   May 2017 provide you with further learning opportunities and personal growth
                   • marty mars …

                     29 December 2016 at 7:32 am

                     rubbish – the case was made and then evidence produced. You may disagree with that evidence or think the case hasn’t been sufficiently made but there was no abdication from greg at all. Passive aggressive is still aggressive 12 – it is you who needs to learn and try a bit of personal growth it may help your critical thinking a little.

                     And as for the qualifiers used that so infuriate you – lol get over yourself, they are a commonly used tool to reduce the ego and absolutist content of a statement and to show that whilst we think we know stuff there is still more stuff to know and we acknowledge that by ‘qualifiers’.
       • Morrissey 2.1.1.3

         28 December 2016 at 11:09 am

         You’re ignorant, Red.
   • AmaKiwi 2.2

     27 December 2016 at 11:22 am

     When the Israeli government calls in our ambassador for a dressing down, I would say, “The NZ government has condemned the policy of “Labensraum” since 1939, when it was Hitler’s rationale for taking Poland so the Germans could dispossess Poles and have more “living space.” Seventy-years on and we still condemn it.”

     When the Israeli government calls in the USA ambassador for a dressing down, I would say, “My country gives you $10.4 million USD every single day of the year and all you have to show for it is genocide. You are our p.r. nightmare.”
     • Wensleydale 2.2.1

       27 December 2016 at 11:43 am

       Either they don’t grasp the parallel, or the hypocrisy, or they’re just blinded by arrogance and the belief that they’ve been doing it for so long, no one really cares that much and it will all blow over once the next press release from the Kardashians comes out.

       At its most simplistic is the question – does a bad thing suddenly become less bad if the ethnic group perpetrating it happen to be Jewish? And does asking this question make one an anti-Semite?
       • AmaKiwi 2.2.1.1

         27 December 2016 at 4:34 pm

         @ Wensleydale

         Any Israeli will tell you Israel can NEVER afford to lose a war, because they will be obliterated by their neighbors.

         I suspect that all Israelis know someday they will lose a war. It may not be in their lifetime but it will almost surely happen.

         So the question becomes, “How to prevent all future wars?” I have no surefire answer but as an optimist who believes peace is always possible, I think their government’s policies are increasing the likelihood of more wars.

         Some Israelis would agree with me, but they are not in control of their government because fear is a more powerful emotion than trust.
         • BM 2.2.1.1.1

           27 December 2016 at 5:05 pm

           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
         • WILD KATIPO 2.2.1.1.2

           27 December 2016 at 6:00 pm

           As a side note to all this Machiavellian maneuvering , Erdogan of Turkey has publicly stated he intends to head a 10 nation caliphate. And he has the backing already of many those diverse nations. If that comes into being we would now have a new power bloc – one that Israel and the West cannot ignore.

           Therefore some sort of peace deal would need to be brokered. Rather convenient don’t you think ?,… sacrifice a few more thousand Palestinian lives and agitate a bit more using ISIS as the tool to do so ? … the Wests oil reserves and military strategic regional influence assured ? Hegelian dialectics at work here ?

           One reason that Turkey is favored among those 10 nations is because it has a state of the art military machine. It also somewhat enjoys cordial relations with the U.N nations and isn’t exactly always on good terms with Russia. A body such as that would suit certain among the West very nicely indeed.

           According to one clip Adrian Thornton posted ( comment 6 ) on this page Clinton didn’t seemed particularly interested in ‘ peace’ at all … one then has to ask the question …why?

           What was the real motives going on here…
         • victor 2.2.1.1.3

           28 December 2016 at 7:45 pm

           Ama Kiwi – You may be right, – Israel one day will lose a war and will be obliterated, – but you conveniently forgot to also mention that while being obliterated by their neighbors Israel shall obliterate the neighbors.
           Never again holocaust will happen to jews only!!!
           • McFlock 2.2.1.1.3.1

             28 December 2016 at 8:56 pm

             The holocaust didn’t only happen to Jews.
     • hemebond 2.2.2

       27 December 2016 at 12:30 pm

       +1
3. Gristle 3

   27 December 2016 at 11:19 am

   Oh no! Israeli Government withdraws Christmas from countries who voted for the UN resolution as part of sanctions.
4. BM 4

   27 December 2016 at 11:31 am

   The rapture.

   It’s a shame that this horse shit invented by an English preacher in the 1800’s has such an influence in US middle east policy.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby
   • BM 4.1

     27 December 2016 at 12:07 pm

     Just to add it’s a shame this horse shit had such an influence on UK foreign policy.

     http://www.plymouthbrethren.com/balfour.htm
   • WILD KATIPO 4.2

     27 December 2016 at 12:55 pm

     Its a shame the Clinton foundation was funneling money from Saudi Arabia for arms deals. 80 billion’s worth in one deal alone. The largest arms deals in history apparently . And where did those arms go to?

     They were then distributed to ISIS.

     Why?… because like Saudi Arabia, ISIS are Sunny Muslims – not Shi’ite’s .

     And Shi’ite’s are considered heretics by the Sunny ISIS and deserve the death penalty.

     Israel and Saudi Arabia are quite chummy with the USA. And the USA remembers them in their Christmas cards because the USA likes to be chummy with Saudi Arabia because of its oil reserves. And also an ally with which to extend its military influence from in the region against Russia.

     The USA also likes to be chummy with its resident Jewish population because from out of that demographic , a significant number are Zionists bankers, politicians and advisers – and involved in the entertainment industry thus influencing popular opinion and the news-media.

     And the neo cons feel they have to be chummy with them because another extreme Zionist globalist called Lord Rothchild who controls the financial operations of the City of London to a large extent also owns the Federal Reserve Bank in the USA.

     So you see, BM ,… its a little more involved than your simplistic comments would try to have us believe,… and that is why I wrote it out so even a child could understand…
     • marty mars 4.2.1

       27 December 2016 at 12:58 pm

       Is there some sort of conspiracy or hidden agenda and if yes, what is it?
       • WILD KATIPO 4.2.1.1

         27 December 2016 at 1:10 pm

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9xbokQO4M0
         • marty mars 4.2.1.1.1

           27 December 2016 at 1:20 pm

           It’s okay to say you don’t know – how could you unless you were part of it.
           • WILD KATIPO 4.2.1.1.1.1

             27 December 2016 at 1:43 pm

             I assume your not unable to work it out for yourself . Therefore , look up some more data on the issue on your own volition. There’s plenty of it there to keep you busy for a long time.

             Unless you believe all political , military and banking systems operate in a complete and absolute vacuum , independent of each other , totally oblivious to what their colleagues are about , and that all is simply a monstrous collection of random events that just happens to land in an organized fashion in the form of treaty’s, peace summits , – and all without any ulterior motives or duplicity.

             Sure wish I was that confident in our local or world leaders.
             • marty mars …

               27 December 2016 at 2:01 pm

               I tend to believe the idiot fuckup selfish theory rather than the big intertwinned conspiracy theory – which I have heard many times in many different ways and from many angles. Just wondered which iteration you subscribed to. But happy to forget it ☺
               • WILD KATIPO …

                 27 December 2016 at 3:43 pm

                 Make of it what you will , … but here is what George Bush Sr had to say…

                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txukr5zgHnw
                 • BM …

                   27 December 2016 at 3:51 pm

                   So the UN is a front for the NWO.?

                   Do you think Helen Clark knows this? or is she part of the NWO as well?
                   • joe90 …

                     27 December 2016 at 4:06 pm

                     It’s the Juice!.
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     27 December 2016 at 4:14 pm

                     I would suspect that Clark was right in behind the trend – at least broadly. She certainly had no qualms in presenting the soft face of neo liberalism. So she doesn’t come up squeaky clean either. Clark seemed slightly disdainful of Israel and the USA, … but she was still happy to be embedded in established political orders . Ok with Afghanistan , not so with Iraq.

                     There is a certain amount of latitude given on local and regional issues. That is part of the accepted ‘ democratic principle ‘ . Lange did the same with the anti nuclear issue. But broadly speaking , there is certainly an unseen line that even govts do not dare cross. And that has to do with certain accepted tenets within the broad church of western democracies.

                     Particularly if they are U.N members.

                     The other is the very international banking / financial institutions itself. We see the lower echelons get burned ie : the footsoldier ranks… they are the expendable tiers ,… eg , those directly responsible for the 2008 crash … but we never see those who have the enormous wealth and political clout to influence whole nations , those that finance and topple regimes , those that can withdraw credit and either create a famine or avoid it.

                     And its no use saying these individuals do not exist. They do , and are still human individuals that can be named. And you will find them in many world organizations .
             • Red …

               27 December 2016 at 5:50 pm

               Same argument the creationist use against evolution, doesn’t work their either
     • BM 4.2.2

       27 December 2016 at 1:03 pm

       Lol, you’re a crazy old Mofo.
       • WILD KATIPO 4.2.2.1

         27 December 2016 at 1:16 pm

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPlmrCKcJxk
         • red-blooded 4.2.2.1.1

           28 December 2016 at 2:12 pm

           Hmm… Assange and Pilger (and you WK) seem to place a lot of trust in the FBI. I, for one, don’t think a government department should act as a “political police” (through I’m sure DT’s mate Putin is OK with that concept!). Having said that, it seems that the FBI agrees that Russia was interfering in the election, including through the publication of emails.
           https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-blames-putins-personal-grudge-against-her-for-election-interference/2016/12/16/12f36250-c3be-11e6-8422-eac61c0ef74d_story.html?utm_term=.180e9729026b

           Presumably the FBI got it right the first time (against Clinton) but wrong the second time (against Trump/Putin)..?
           • Draco T Bastard 4.2.2.1.1.1

             28 December 2016 at 2:30 pm

             don’t think a government department should act as a “political police”

             So who should?

             Really, there is corruption in politics and we need to be able to hold these fuckers to account.
5. Sabine 5

   27 December 2016 at 12:13 pm

   oh dear.
   let’s clutch our pearls in anticipation.
6. Adrian Thornton 6

   27 December 2016 at 2:05 pm

   I hope they do sanction us, that would be quite a conversation piece for the smoko room, and dinner table, it would be a good thing for Kiwis to be forced into having open and frank discussions around Israelis appalling behavior in Palestine.

   I am sure Israel will find a freind in Trump, though if you want to see some real scary rhetoric around Israel check this out….. Palestinians probably dodged a bullet there?
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtfxZT_lqv8

   This is pretty good too…
   http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=17559
   • WILD KATIPO 6.1

     27 December 2016 at 3:36 pm

     Cyber security ? water security ?…. haven’t we heard all that before in the recent past?

     We had our own home grown version in the North Island perhaps… but that just may be drawing a long bow….

     But the loss of our civil rights with the 5 eyes network sure aint.

     Just ask either Nicky Hager or Rodney Hide…
     • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1

       27 December 2016 at 3:54 pm

       ‘ Hegelian dialectic, usually presented in a threefold manner, was stated by Heinrich Moritz Chalybäus as comprising three dialectical stages of development: a thesis, giving rise to its reaction, an antithesis, which contradicts or negates the thesis, and the tension between the two being resolved by means of a synthesis. ‘

       So , create a problem , ie: war and an opposing force , – then offer a solution.

       Voila ! easy manipulation when the world cries for piece. And the people who created those conditions get to control us, gain vast wealth and embed themselves as a ruling elite.

       Pretty old game. Been going on for century’s.

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MADYzQstpsU
       • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.1

         27 December 2016 at 3:57 pm

         Here’s what the other guy says :

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYozWHBIf8g
   • Red 6.2

     27 December 2016 at 5:51 pm

     I am more appalled about Arab violence against each other
7. Jenny 7

   27 December 2016 at 3:49 pm

   “Israel threatens sanctions against New Zealand”

   MICKYSAVAGE

   In its ongoing campaign to disopossess the Palestiniasn, new levels of absurdity are reached, when Israel opens up new front against New Zealand.
   • Red Hand 7.1

     27 December 2016 at 5:10 pm

     About 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs and the percentage is projected to increase. They are reportedly discriminated against in Israel, influenced by Israeli relations with the Palestinians.

     One possible outcome is Israel becoming the nucleus of a greater Semitic state encompassing Arab, Jew and related groups.

     (1) http://www.passblue.com/2014/02/02/israeli-palestinian-population-growth-and-its-impact-on-peace/

     (2) http://www.passblue.com/2014/02/02/israeli-palestinian-population-growth-and-its-impact-on-peace/
8. Sacha 8

   27 December 2016 at 4:16 pm

   Israeli govt throws toys from cot, part 2: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/321309/israel-suspends-diplomatic-ties-over-security-council-resolution
   • Anne 8.1

     27 December 2016 at 4:26 pm

     Israel govt. throws toys from cot:

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news-cartoons/news/article.cfm?c_id=500814&objectid=11773202
     • garibaldi 8.1.1

       27 December 2016 at 4:54 pm

       Don’t question the Zionists. We are not allowed to rock the boat.
       • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1.1

         27 December 2016 at 5:09 pm

         Nothing happens in a vacuum.

         Its been said in many ways ‘ we ignore the lessons of history at our peril ‘. Too easy to deny it when we cant be bothered or it goes against our own cherished viewpoints. And that goes for the ‘ Left ‘ and the ‘Right’ . Lets see what happens with this latest threat of sanctions by Israel . Maybe it will serve to make Trump even more pro Likud party. Hard to say.

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-8KgP5zhLQ
       • Anne 8.1.1.2

         27 December 2016 at 7:38 pm

         What a sad state of affairs. I had Jewish relatives (on my mother’s side although she was not Jewish) in England and I lived with them for a year about 40 years ago. Through them I met a lot of Jewish people and found them delightful and full of fun. They practised their religious beliefs in their daily lives and it seemed to me they were always celebrating some religious event of one sort or another. It was a source of fascination for me. There was never any hint of fanaticism so I am sure they were not – or perhaps became – Zionists.

         It’s a shame that these fanatics have brought so much hatred and violence to the world in the name of the Jewish race.

         Now I’ve rocked the boat!
         • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1.2.1

           27 December 2016 at 9:12 pm

           No you haven’t rocked the boat – as that’s the truth. Its not the common folk ,- as it is in all country’s ,… its the small number of maniacs who work their way into power that are the problem.

           I’m actually pro the state of Israel, but not the manner in which certain leaders of theirs are taking the country. And a lot of the leaders of other country’s in supporting their genocidal tendencies and justifying it.

           Then again – the other lot ( surrounding country’s ) haven’t been exactly friendly and all open arms towards Israel as well. They all share in the blame. That whole idea of ‘ driving Israel into the sea’ wasn’t particularly welcoming.
9. Sacha 9

   27 December 2016 at 5:15 pm

   https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/12/26/whats-new-and-whats-not-in-the-u-n-resolution-on-israeli-settlements/#pq=TbQk0Q

   None of this—the determination of “occupation,” the inclusion of East Jerusalem, the U.S. abstention—was actually new. But two things were: the involvement of Donald Trump, not yet in office, in the process of tabling the resolution; and the sense that this was not merely a condemnation of Israeli settlements, nor an attempt to promote a two-state solution, but an attempt to prevent the worst of the no-solution reality.
10. Sacha 10

    27 December 2016 at 6:19 pm

    NZ representative not welcome.

    New Zealand’s ambassador is “not able to visit Israel for the time being”, MFAT said in a statement.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11773528
11. Sacha 11

    27 December 2016 at 7:00 pm

    some Israeli pundits are unamused ..

    The New Zealanders, do-gooders with a very dim understanding of what they have wrought, can be forgiven such folly. The Obama administration has no such excuses.

    http://besacenter.org/perspectives-papers/389-lerman-unscr-2334-a-disservice-to-the-cause-of-peace/
12. McFlock 12

    27 December 2016 at 7:04 pm

    I feel sorry for any entities that depend on Israel for a chunk of their income stream, but it was the right call to make by this government.

    Although, correction, I suspect included in those entities are ones associated with a slater (and, given their comment stream, a weta), so not too sorry for all of them…
13. Gavin 13

    27 December 2016 at 7:19 pm

    WHAT A FOOLISH THING NEW ZEALAND HAS DONE

    This morning I woke up to the news that New Zealand had pushed for the Two State resolution to proceed despite Egypts withdrawal just yesterday at the behest of Israel and President elect Donald Trump.

    Furthermore New Zealand went on to vote against Israel which now aligns us with the Palestinians against Israel. This does not bode well for us as a country and nation, as New Zealand has now taken a clear stand against Israel (God’s inheritance).

    We know from ancient history and as recorded in the Bible that Israel is a nation that belongs to the Jewish people who were given the land of Israel by God. The Palestinians are the direct descendants of the Philistines which were the arch enemies of the Jews. You recall the epic show down between David and Goliath who was a Philistine. It was Philistine against Israel, a huge force against a very small army yet God took it down then and destroyed the Philistines with one blow.

    We are at the same juncture today where the UN is siding with Palestine (check your history, Palestine was the ancient Philistines) against Israel, do you think it will be any different today that God will standby and allow the nations to split up His people’s inheritance. With NZ voting against Israel today, it brings us face to face against the direct will of God. We already had one warning which was the recent earthquake (the UN vote determines to split Jerusalem at the hand of man) which consequently splits our land (earthquake) by the hand of God as a warning. Further actions to divide Jerusalem will cause our land to be divided by divine supernatural events of God (I urge you to watch for these signs as they are a marker on each decision made by a government or country that decides action against Israel. As a side note think about the proximity of the last earthquake to the internal decision to vote against Israel, its the same day that John Kerry met with Murray McCully that we had the earthquake, then if NZ continues on this path you will see a close pattern of judgements to these decisions). Watch for more land dividing judgements (either by earthquakes and/or internal civil divisions) if NZ remain hellbent on siding against Israel and God (The God of Isaac, Jacob and Abraham).

    Watch this:

    God is going to bring judgment to those who try to divide Jerusalem:

    “… there will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and because they have divided My land.” [Joel 3:2]

    The current resolution NZ has crafted and pushed for demands that we as a country are demanding that Israel divide her land with her sworn enemies that continue to attack her. As seen above this is God’s heritage and any man or nation that stands against Israel will fall into the hands of the Living God, make no mistake God takes vengance against his enemies.

    Now by NZ pushing for this, has placed New Zealand and its people directly in danger at the hand of God. We are cautioned as to which side we choose, as it is a choice and you have cast a lot in favour against Israel and Gods inheritance.

    Now you have a choice this day, so chose wisely: Are You for God or against God.

    On the current path McCully exposes us to direct judgements from The Father on the land of New Zealand and its people through many and diverse natural and supernatural disaster. If you ignore this message then you do so at your own peril and that of our country and its people as God will judge us and protect Israel and she will not be divided despite your or anyone’s best efforts.

    We as NZ need to reconsider our politically correct actions in what seems to be the right path and move to align yourself and New Zealand to the direct wishes of God our Father and the inheritance He has given to Israel.

    As a child of God, a Christian I am only too aware that these last days are filled with many worldwide events that concern us, but if we are in His hands, we are safe and protected. I urge you now to change course in the direction and favor of Israel (thus standing with God), you don’t want to fall into the hands of the Living God. If we continue on the current path against Israel then we as a nation can expect further judgements from God’s hand against our land and our people. Choose wisely.

    For the LORD’S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance [Deuteronomy 32:9]

    This message is provided with no ill will or intent but in the love of Jesus Christ and His mercy for us all as a warning.

    Let it be known to all I STAND FOR ISRAEL AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, JACOB AND ABRAHAM.

    If we change course now and repent of our actions, our God is merciful and will have compassion on us and we will not share in the coming nations judgements.

    Remember Belshazzar [Daniel 5: 22 – 31]

    [Looks like Gavin is doing a bit of cutting and pasting – MS]
    • Muttonbird 13.1

      27 December 2016 at 8:43 pm

      Good post. That’s the most lucid and direct argument I’ve seen yet from our pro-settlement crowd.

      Literally, that Israelis are superior, which is the very definition of supremacist and racist speech.
      • Sacha 13.1.1

        28 December 2016 at 10:48 am

        Bit confused how them Philistines were “destroyed” yet have descendants nowadays. Still, I guess magical realism is like that as a genre.
    • Malconz 13.2

      27 December 2016 at 9:32 pm

      Brilliant stuff Gav. I’m with you – we should definitely let the musing of Bronze Age nomads wandering around a miserable patch of sand govern our actions in 2017. FFS whenever in history was God “merciful”? You are seriously deluded, my friend.
      • Anne 13.2.1

        27 December 2016 at 10:14 pm

        plus one b****y thousand Malconz. For a second there….
    • North 13.3

      27 December 2016 at 9:38 pm

      Looks like Gavin is a bit of a Brian Tamaki. “Away with thee Sodom/Palestinians/the whole world !”
    • The Fairy Godmother 13.4

      27 December 2016 at 10:03 pm

      This is an excellent short film explaining the violent history of Palestine. I think it is totally ridiculous to think anyone has a claim on this land because of what happened thousands of years ago.

      http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/this-land-is-mine/
    • Wensleydale 13.5

      28 December 2016 at 3:03 am

      I wonder if Murray McCully knows that the magical wizard who lives in the sky is going to smite him for his insolence. I reckon you should send him an e-mail, Gav.
    • McFlock 13.6

      28 December 2016 at 9:09 pm

      Belshazzar?

      Sounds like Sharon from south Dunedin is being informed that somebody is at the door: “Bell, Shazza!”

      I don’t have a problem with what bible-thumpers do in the privacy of their own homes, but it’s their lifestyle choice. There’s no need to do it in public. Kids might see.
      • One Anonymous Bloke 13.6.1

        28 December 2016 at 9:19 pm

        What about the things their kids witness at home?
        • McFlock 13.6.1.1

          28 December 2016 at 10:20 pm

          Sadly, as long as it’s legal it comes under parental discretion.
14. Andre 14

    27 December 2016 at 7:29 pm

    An interesting opinion piece on the Chump’s pick for ambassador to Israel.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/22/opinions/trumps-israel-pick-ruins-obama-legacy-hassan/index.html
15. One Anonymous Bloke 15

    27 December 2016 at 7:56 pm

    Oh noes! Now we won’t be able to have shit paintings and over-priced cosmetics pushed on the gullible anymore!

    I guess they won’t be wanting our passports either.
    • keepcalmcarryon 15.1

      27 December 2016 at 8:47 pm

      haha was thinking the same. Im not buying the wife that uzi for christmas now.
      F#ckers were knicking our passports not that long ago, they have no respect for anyone else – look how bibi treated Obama going behind his back on the US visit.
      All countries should cut all ties and aid to israel, start some real sanctions and end the israeli appartheid.
      Shame it’ll never happen with (Jewish) Israeli interests running america.
16. simonm 16

    27 December 2016 at 8:30 pm

    Please Israel, boycott NZ and give us another Christmas present after the fantastic UN Security Council resolution.

    I’m proud of the legacy of brave people in this country who stood up against apartheid in South Africa, and I would be delighted if we began a new legacy of standing up to Israeli apartheid against the Palestinian people.
17. ron 17

    27 December 2016 at 8:51 pm

    We have not seen NZ offering homes and land free to Palestinians that want to free themselves and start afresh bringing Islam and with it many mosques to NZ slowly destabilising the country to the point of civil war with their demands and “rights” as other refugees from the Middle East have done to the rest of Europe I am sure Israel would be happy to pay all costs of one way transportation! When we see this in the world press then people might begin to take notice of this hot air.
    • North 17.1

      27 December 2016 at 9:42 pm

      Saddo Ron.
    • Paul Campbell 17.2

      27 December 2016 at 9:52 pm

      We have accepted Palestinian refugees, driven from their homes by Israel, what makes you think we wouldn’t have?
18. JOHN IRVING 18

    27 December 2016 at 9:25 pm

    Nz should have sanctioned Israel for using nz passports to carry out their spying activities.
19. Katipo 19

    27 December 2016 at 11:58 pm

    Perhaps this is all a Netanyahu diversion…
    “Report: Netanyahu to be investigated for bribery, fraudPolice ask A-G to turn months-long secret inquiry into full-blown investigation as new documents come to light….”
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/report-netanyahu-to-be-investigated-for-bribery-fraud/
    • Anne 19.1

      28 December 2016 at 10:07 am

      His supreme arrogance will be his ultimate downfall and the sooner it happens the better…

      http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-netanyahu-refuses-to-turn-the-other-cheek-in-his-confrontational-response-to-un-defeat/
20. Happy Camper 20

    28 December 2016 at 8:45 am

    You final comment is a joke ” the worst excesses of human rights abuse and international conflict” …Really? What a total bunch of garbage, maybe you should look in the mirror, or look around the globe? The Palestinian’s don’t want peace because war & demonizing Israel pay’s so much better. There was no peace before the settlements, there’s no peace in Gaza after the Israeli’s they gave that land away, and they’ll be no peace in the West bank until the Palestinian’s get leaders who aren’t entirely corrupt. They’ve been offered their own country several times before, but they’ve chosen war, they want the destruction of Israel, not coexistence.
    Do some research on your articles, seriously!
    • simonm 20.1

      28 December 2016 at 1:26 pm

      Oops! You seem to have landed on the wrong website, “Happy Wanker.” The one you’re looking for is http://www.whaleoil.co.nz. They’ll be much more amenable to your point of view.

      Knock yourself out!
    • framu 20.2

      29 December 2016 at 7:48 am

      “demonizing Israel pay’s so much better”

      I know, right! – Those bloody palestinians and their buildings of gold and rocket cars!
21. Wayne 21

    28 December 2016 at 8:46 am

    So what will Israel actually do to New Zealand?

    They could close down their mission in NZ. They could permanently prevent the NZ Ambassador from visiting. Overall this is less than formal breaking of diplomatic relations, but many of Israel’s friends (and many Israeli’s) would see it as excessive.

    They could end the growing scientific and business relationship (which I largely initiated in 2009).

    They could ban 100th commemorations in 20167 at Berbesheeba of the NZ Mounted Infantry.

    Hard to see them doing more, in fact they won’t even do most these things. While Israel is annoyed with New Zealand, they know further steps such as withdrawing their consent to NZ being part of the Sinai mission would start to look like a complete severance of diplomatic relations with NZ. That would be would out of line with their general approach to diplomacy. I can’t see Israel choosing to permanently rupturing relations with New Zealand.

    So in my view the issue will blow over.

    I noted John Bolton was suggesting the US should also take action against New Zealand. I can’t see that happening unless the Trump administration is more stupid than I imagine.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1

      28 December 2016 at 9:02 am

      As a Five-Eyes sycophantic ride-along, does NZ have any practical way to decouple from Trump’s centre-right foreign policy clusterfuck when it starts?

      Or don’t we actually control the hardware?
    • Sacha 21.2

      28 December 2016 at 10:43 am

      I read that Bolton was falling from favour because his moustache offended Chump’s aesthetic sense. Still a relevant player, you reckon?
    • Gristle 21.3

      28 December 2016 at 12:20 pm

      I shortlisted two suppliers for the supply of some IT gear. One is from an Israeli company and the other is from another in the USA. Not much between them in terms of price, delivery, performance and support: basically the same.

      So I decided to apply my own sanctions here and choosing Cisco. And with that the Israeli economy has lost out near on $15,000. Not much, but it’s a consequence of their government’s current approach.
22. Wayne 22

    28 December 2016 at 9:48 am

    One Anonymous Bloke,

    As far as I can see the big issue for New Zealand (and Australia) with the Trump administration will be China. We won’t want to get caught up in disputes caused by excessive actions from Washington.

    New Zealand has its own very good relationship with China, and we will not want to see that imperilled. I am sure that many of the United States friends in the Asia Pacific will ensure that that Washington gets that message.

    On TPP, I think that should still be advanced even if Washington is not part of it. The other 11 nations have enough in it to make it worth advancing, even though the US was the strategic prize. The 11 nations can also adapt TPP to make it more attractive to China. That alone will signal to Washington we are not in their thrall, and that Washington will pay a price if it steps back from commitments it has made. Many of the TPP nations had to pay a political cost to get it through, including NZ (but not Australia where it barely created a ripple), with Labour abandoning it’s bilateral commitment to free trade. So therefore we want something out of it.

    As for John Bolton, well if Washington is stupid enough to impose sanctions, it will certainly encourage NZ to strengthen the China (and India) relationships.

    At some point the Trump Administration will appreciate that it cannot piss of all its partners and expect that they will not do anything.
    • WILD KATIPO 22.1

      28 December 2016 at 10:14 am

      You’re a bit ‘ in through the back door ‘ with the TTPA , aren’t you mate ?

      Nice try though.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 22.2

      28 December 2016 at 10:15 am

      Indeed. So, my question is, in the event that New Zealand wanted to deny access to the material we currently steal as part of the Five Eyes network, is there a practical way to achieve that?

      What in your view might trigger such action? How many obedience tests have you failed?
    • Draco T Bastard 22.3

      28 December 2016 at 12:05 pm

      New Zealand has its own very good relationship with China, and we will not want to see that imperilled.

      I’m quite happy for it to be imperilled. Just make sure that it’s us that’s withdrawing from the relationship because of their actions. And, yes, their actions do support such an action by NZ. So do the actions of the US.

      We should not be maintaining and deepening relations with such callous nations.
23. Dave Scott 23

    28 December 2016 at 11:32 am

    Simple.
    Israel is a terrorist nation founded on terrorism and murder with terrorist organisations that predate any palestinian organisations in the mid east.

    It is also a criminal and morally corrupt nation.
    Even its own Theodor Meron​, the chief legal adviser to the Israeli Government in 1967 said so.

    They now wish to threaten sanctions but say the rest of the world observing BDS principles against it are not ‘kosher’.

    And they base this all on what?

    A claim that some sky god made them special?
24. Wayne 24

    28 December 2016 at 11:33 am

    OAB,

    I would have thought it pretty reasonable to keep tabs on people with terrorist inclinations, and to prevent other countries (notably China) from hacking our systems. Because that is what Five Eyes mostly does. So it is not “stealing.” Terrorists have no rights to keep their communications secret.

    You will be aware that the Five Eyes co-operation continued during the anti-nuclear standoff during the 1980’s. So it has to be an extremely high threshold before you would back out of Five Eyes. The relationship between NZ and its partners is far more enduring than any particular administration. In fact long term alliances are predicated on the basis that administrations come and go but the shared interests sit at a much deeper level of common values and assumptions. It is not just the US, but also Australia, the UK and Canada. I cannot foresee any likely circumstances that would cause NZ to have a deep rupture with any of these nations. In extremis they are the very nations that we count on.

    Now of course I know you don’t buy into any of that. Nether does the Green Party. But the likely leading parties in reasonably foreseeable administrations (National, Labour and NZF) all accept the premise and underlying purpose of Five Eyes, though particular people within these parties will have varying degrees of enthusiasm.
    • Morrissey 24.1

      28 December 2016 at 11:37 am

      When you employ the word “terrorists”, I presume you are exempting the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia?
      • Draco T Bastard 24.1.1

        28 December 2016 at 11:50 am

        Yeah, the fact that the US also happens to be a rogue terrorist nation is certainly grounds for dropping all relations with them.
        • Morrissey 24.1.1.1

          28 December 2016 at 11:54 am

          … the US also happens to be a rogue terrorist nation…

          As are the U.K., France, Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.
    • Draco T Bastard 24.2

      28 December 2016 at 11:49 am

      In fact long term alliances are predicated on the basis that administrations come and go but the shared interests sit at a much deeper level of common values and assumptions.

      The problem being that those common values and assumptions don’t seem to exist. NZ is against invading other countries while the US/UK is most definitely for doing so.

      I cannot foresee any likely circumstances that would cause NZ to have a deep rupture with any of these nations.

      I can. Where a couple of nations use lies and deceit to justify invasion of an innocent country.
      • Morrissey 24.2.1

        28 December 2016 at 11:52 am

        After Auckland was attacked by terrorists in July 1985, Wayne’s friends and colleagues in the National Party were less than useless in sticking up for us against the French.
        • Draco T Bastard 24.2.1.1

          28 December 2016 at 1:43 pm

          IIRC, National didn’t even want to take the fuckers to court over that state terrorism.

          National has a habit of kowtowing to power and we see it here everyday from their supporters.
      • Wayne 24.2.2

        28 December 2016 at 8:53 pm

        Draco,

        I presume you are talking about the Iraq war.

        While NZ did not agree with invasion NZ, or more accurately Helen Clark as PM, did not see this as a reason to abandon Five Eyes and all that goes with it. She knew the relationships were way more important and enduring than the issues of Iraq.

        Now you may be prepared to effectively become a neutral nation and leave Five Eyes, which by the way also means leaving the ANZAc relationship. But in my view that would be reckless in the extreme. Enduring international relationships are not a matter of gestures that are the equivalent of the indulgences of student politics. Now I know you are years past your time as a student, but it seems that your politics have not moved on.

        But fortunately those who actually exercise power, whether Left or Right, have tempered their views with pragmatism and an awareness of their nation’s history.
        • Draco T Bastard 24.2.2.1

          31 December 2016 at 3:03 am

          She knew the relationships were way more important and enduring than the issues of Iraq.

          Maintaining relationships with immoral nations such as the US/UK not what a moral nation does.

          But fortunately those who actually exercise power, whether Left or Right, have tempered their views with pragmatism and an awareness of their nation’s history.

          Ah, the excuse of pragmatism to justify continued immoral actions.
      • Wayne 24.2.3

        28 December 2016 at 9:57 pm

        Draco,
        You will be well aware that Helen Clark did not think the Iraq invasion justified NZ completely leaving Five Eyes and effectively becoming a neutral nation, and in the process also destroying the ANZAC relationship. That was because she is not stupid.
        Any person becoming PM or getting a senior position knows that they have moved beyond the indulgences of student politics. They are aware of the history of their nation, what they campaigned on and their obligations to the future of their country. In essence each administration only has the role of a trustee.
        So while you might think it easy and also sensible for NZ to completely break with the past, and become in essence a neutral nation any serous politician knows that would be ridiculous.
        I would also note that is why so many think Meteria Turei could never be trusted with any portfolio that had significant foreign policy dimensions. But as co leader of the Greens many of her foreign policy pronouncements seem not to have moved beyond student union politics.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 24.3

      28 December 2016 at 1:45 pm

      I would have thought it pretty reasonable to keep tabs on people with terrorist inclinations, and to prevent other countries (notably China) from hacking our systems. Because that is what Five Eyes mostly does…

      Would you? That’s nice.

      My question regards the parts that aren’t included in your “mostly”, and relates to stealing. I note you failed to answer it.

      You don’t know I don’t “buy into it”, Wayne, because I’m a Green voter. I realise that you righties slavishly agree with everything your leaders say, even when they change their statements overnight. I’m not so fatally handicapped. My frequent references to Sun Tsu (especially chapter 13) might have clued you into that. Oh well.

      Let’s say your centre-right Dear Leader allows Bannon to start interning Jews without trial. I’m picking you’d pause before passing that obedience test. Not for Muslims, obviously, but I’m keen to hear what your threshold is.
      • One Anonymous Bloke 24.3.1

        28 December 2016 at 8:29 pm

        I’ll be more specific, Wayne:

        “What if” President Trump makes good on his promise to you right wingers and starts interning people without trial. Do you think that would be sufficient grounds for New Zealand withholding access to information we gather steal as a consequence of our position in the network?

        If not, what would it take?
    • Laurel L. Russwurm 24.4

      29 December 2016 at 5:59 pm

      “The relationship between NZ and its partners is far more enduring than any particular administration.”

      I have this apparently odd idea that the democratically elected government decides policy in sovereign states.
      • Wayne 24.4.1

        30 December 2016 at 4:53 pm

        Laurel,

        You are obviously right, but any govt has regard for the context of their country. In short they know they don’t have a clean slate for policy.

        If a govt has not explicitly campaigned to say withdraw from Five Eyes or to get out of the western alliance (these being both big things and not just things on which the govt can act as it pleases), then the govt can’t just withdraw. The govt would not have a democratic mandate to do so.

        Sorry for the delay in the reply. I was not in email range.
25. Morrissey 25

    28 December 2016 at 11:41 am

    This is an excellent Israeli site, tracking and documenting what is perhaps the world’s most flagrant and shameless regime of terror….

    http://www.btselem.org/
26. Anne 26

    28 December 2016 at 12:24 pm

    Netanyahu declares war on NZ.

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/87981623/israel-warned-new-zealand-that-un-resolution-was-declaration-of-war–report

    What is the world coming to with Hanson declaring war on vegemite and Netty boy declaring war on lil ol NZ at the bottom of the world.
27. joe90 27

    28 December 2016 at 1:41 pm

    Netanyahu painted himself into a corner.

    Way back in March 2014, President Obama told Jeffrey Goldberg that his message to Netanyahu was that time was running out.

    When Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visits the White House tomorrow, President Barack Obama will tell him that his country could face a bleak future — one of international isolation and demographic disaster — if he refuses to endorse a U.S.-drafted framework agreement for peace with the Palestinians. Obama will warn Netanyahu that time is running out for Israel as a Jewish-majority democracy. And the president will make the case that Netanyahu, alone among Israelis, has the strength and political credibility to lead his people away from the precipice.

    Since then, Netanyahu made the decision to dig in his heels and keep heading toward that bleak future Obama warned him about. That is why Martin is right, Netanyahu brought this on himself. But this isn’t about a personal pique the President has with the Israeli Prime Minister. It is about – just as he noted with the Cuban embargo – when something isn’t working, it’s time to try something different. This administration did everything they could think of to pressure both Israel and the Palestinians to the negotiating table to work towards a two-state solution. It didn’t work. The final step was to allow passage of this U.N. resolution.

    http://washingtonmonthly.com/2016/12/27/what-you-havent-heard-about-the-security-council-resolution/
    • Draco T Bastard 27.1

      28 December 2016 at 1:46 pm

      I would have had more respect if the US had voted for the resolution. As it is they’re trying to have it both ways. Trying to make it look like they’re holding Israel to account while not actually doing anything.
      • joe90 27.1.1

        28 December 2016 at 1:58 pm

        I disagree.

        Netanyahu’s alignment with Trump is fast driving a wedge between his government and liberal/progressive US Jews and IMO, an aye vote could well have softened their view.
28. David Isecke 28

    28 December 2016 at 4:50 pm

    “This story gets weirder and weirder. Fresh from the humiliation of the Security Council deciding that Israel’s actions in building settlements on land it had prised away from Palestine during the 1967 six day war was illegal Israel has gone on the offensive.”

    Right from the start, a lie. Israel took the land from Jordan, not Palestine. After Jordan attacked, following years of funding terrorist attacks from that territory into Israel’s armistice area, I might add. Jordan has since, in the 80s, ceded all claim to the West Bank. Which hardly meant a thing since Jordan had no right to that land from the start, and had unilaterally occupied it.

    You can have your own point of view, but not your own facts, Mickey Savage. There has never been a nation called Palestine. And to say that was Judea and Samaria land obtained by “conquest”, failing to mention that was won as Israel was defending herself against annihilationist enemies, is a further dishonesty.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 28.1

      28 December 2016 at 7:16 pm

      Displacing civilians from land you’ve won by conquest is a war crime.

      The rest of your brittle rhetoric amounts to “he did it too!” It says something about you.
    • Anne 28.2

      28 December 2016 at 7:27 pm

      Good to see Netanyahu govt. apologists are reading this post.

      There has been an enormous amount of compassion for the Jewish people throughout the world – especially since the Holocaust. But your extreme-right wing Israeli government is rapidly using it up. If they continue with this policy of war and genocide against anyone who dares to stand up to them then there will be no sympathy and compassion left!
    • swordfish 28.3

      29 December 2016 at 7:27 pm

      ” After Jordan attacked, following years of funding terrorist attacks from that territory into Israel’s armistice area, I might add.”

      After Jordan attacked ???

      Love your dutiful regurgitation of long-discredited Israeli propaganda, old son, but let’s put your Hasbara aside for just a moment and head on back to reality for a moment, shall we …

      Like it or not, the June 1967 War was a war of aggression by Israel, which struck first.

      Israel launched its offensive at the precise moment that Egypt was entering a very promising peace initiative brokered by Washington. The US made it abundantly clear that they expected the initiative to be successful. A close look at the record of peace diplomacy over the immediate weeks running up to Israel’s June 1967 attack makes it crystal clear that Israel had refused each and every one of the initiatives and offers made by the US and the UN, while Egypt had accepted not just some but all of them.

      Make no mistake: Israel badly wanted that War and they’d spent the previous 5 years doing all they could to provoke it (copiously attested to by everyone from UN observers, US politicians through to Israeli soldiers involved in these operations (spilling the beans years later in memoirs) and right on through to Israeli Defence Minister Moshe Dayan himself (a man known for his candour – much to the embarrassment of Israel’s official apologists and propagandists).

      Apart from wanting to give Nassar a bloody nose (and hence re-establish Israel’s dominance and hegemony in the region), Israeli leaders had long coveted the West Bank, East Jerusalem and (to a lesser extent) Gaza. The overriding objective of Zionism (as it came to be practised in pre-Israeli state Palestine) had always been to militarily carve out an enlarged Greater ( Eretz ) Israel, ethnically-cleansed of as many of its Palestinian inhabitants as possible. Hence, the invasion and (now 50 year) brutal Occupation of the Palestinian Territories represented the fulfilment of the Zionist dream.

      In terms f the build-up t the Six Day War – which yu (repeating the Official Israeli line despite all the copiously-detailed, widely-sourced evidence to the contrary)
      attribute t a surprise attac frm Jrdan following years of funding terrorist attacks …

      I’ll start by pointing out that, at the close of the 1948 War, the Armistice agreement stipulated the creation of demilitarised zones along the common Israeli-Syrian border.

      All of the independent eyewitnesses and observers on the ground in these DMZs in the early-to-mid 60s, made it clear that (to use the words of the UN’s then Chief of Staff in the Middle East, Odd Bull) “The status quo was all the time being altered by Israel in her favour” with whole Arab villages in the DMZs demolished and their inhabitants ethnically-cleansed.

      As then Israeli Defence Minister Moshe Dayan revealed in an interview that caused a massive stir in Israel at the time “I know how at least 80 percent of all the incidents there started…We would send a tractor to plow in the demilitarized area, … if they (the Syrians) did not start shooting, we would inform the tractor to progress farther until the Syrians, in the end, would get nervous and would shoot. And then we would use guns, and later, even the airforce, and that is how it went. We thought we could change the lines of the ceasefire accords by military actions that were less than a war. That is, to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us.”

      These illegal, highly-aggressive and largely successful Israeli Land-grabs are at the heart of the escalation that ultimately led to them launching the June 1967 Six Day War.

      They encompassed the massive Israeli attack on the Jordanian village of Samu in November 1966, increasingly seen as the turning-point that led to war. These staged provocations to illegally alter the border also directly provoked a serious aerial battle in April 1967 in which Israel shot down a series of Syrian planes. That major engagement, in turn, led numerous leading Israeli officials to call for massive retaliation, with the Israeli Cabinet reportedly deciding in early May that a full Israeli attack on Syria was inevitable. (This at a time when (as the documentary evidence now shows) both Israeli and US Intelligence Agencies as well as leading officials from both Countries were privately reporting that Israel’s security situation was just fine, if not steadily improving, and that Israel would win a quick and easy victory no matter who initiated hostilities).

      The fact is: Israel was desperately seeking a useful pretext that would allow them to attack Syria. Israeli elites had been contemplating an invasion and ultimate annexation of Sinai, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Golan Heights for many years and meticulously planning for it for at least a decade..
29. DJKA 29

    28 December 2016 at 6:13 pm

    This misses the point of Israel’s anger. If the UN wants to condemn Israeli settlements in the West Bank, that’s one thing. This resolution goes much further. Jerusalem is not “occupied territory;” it is the capital of Israel. This resolution officially denies that fact.

    East Jerusalem was occupied by Jordan for less than twenty years. Then Israel took it over in the 1967 war. The original partition plan made it international territory, but we know what happened with that (hint: Someone other than Israel refused to accept it).

    Unlike Gaza and the WB, the city became part of the country. Now, one can argue that that was unlawful, but the fact remains that the city of Jerusalem is not the same as Gaza and the West Bank. Lumping them together is what has the Israelis ticked off. If you read Netanyahu’s statement, this is very clear.
    • mickysavage 29.1

      28 December 2016 at 7:48 pm

      And this misses the point of the resolution. If historical grievances were excepted from the rules most of the world’s surface would not be covered by International Law.

      And if your concern is Jerusalem then why is Israel so intent on destroying the Gaza strip? If it wanted peace with Palestine it would make sure that this area at least was viable.
    • swordfish 29.2

      29 December 2016 at 8:17 pm

      “Unlike Gaza and the WB, the city became part of the country. Now, one can argue that that was unlawful, but the fact remains that the city of Jerusalem is not the same as Gaza and the West Bank. Lumping them together is what has the Israelis ticked off.”

      “became part of the country” ??? … Hilarious !!! … the Hasbara’s becoming increasingly desperate. East Jerusalem just sort of “joined” Israel by some sort of vague, natural, holistic process of osmosis, did it ? I mean, this is as weak as dishwater, you’re insulting our collective intelligence.

      But, then, you’re well aware of that, aren’t you, my disingenuous chum. The fact that you’ve been forced to concede that it “was unlawful” says it all.

      Israel has certainly attempted to annex all of Jerusalem (along with ethnically-cleansing its Palestinian citizens through residential and resource apartheid) – but no-one, not even its Superpower sponsor the US, recognises this gross violation of International Law. (although there are, of course, troubling reports that Trump may change that long-term, cast-iron US position).

      All of East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza constitute sovereign Palestinian land, illegally occupied by Israel according to International Law. It’s been reiterated time and again in all the leading UN forums and by the International Court of Justice.

      If you and other banal Israeli apologists don’t like it … tough.
30. Pat 30

    29 December 2016 at 8:32 pm

    “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” – Friedrich Nietzsche

Links to post

1. The invisible move against colonialism | Le Matt Juste: posted on 28 December 2016 at 2:25 pm

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