It’s just too expensive to act on climate change

Written By: - Date published: 1:30 pm, June 15th, 2015 - 187 comments
Categories: climate change, global warming - Tags: , ,

Hope folk are staying away from the Wellington coastline today:

Huge waves smash Wellington rubberneckers amid fears for coastal roads’ survival

… More than 3m swells are forecast to continue to hit the Lyall Bay after large waves washed debris and boulders onto Moa Point Rd yesterday. … The capital’s mayor, Celia Wade-Brown, told Fairfax Media this morning that Wellington’s south coast roads were under increasing threat of large swells because of global warming.

She said while the roads were not at risk of rapid erosion in the next five to 10 years, it could occur if a plan was not implemented to protect the coast.

Meanwhile internationally:

Our rivers are drying up

The Asia-Pacific Greens Federation met in New Zealand for the first time at the weekend, bringing together politicians from 16 countries to discuss the impacts of climate change. Board member Suresh Nautiyal, from India, told the conference in Wellington he came from one of the most fragile parts of the world, the Himalayas, and climate change was having a profound impact. “Our rivers are drying up, our glaciers are melting, and the indigenous mountain people have virtually stopped growing the harvest,” he said.

Read on for accounts from other countries.

National argue that it’s just too expensive to take action on our greenhouse gas emissions. Except that it isn’t:

187 comments on “It’s just too expensive to act on climate change”

  1. weka 1

    And down south, the Mayor of one of NZ’s major cities says that they may have to relocate 10,000 people due to climate change. Dunedin’s been fighting a losing battle against the ocean waves and tide for a while in South Dunedin, but now they’re acknowledging the whole thing: high water table, low lying land, severe weather events that outstrip drainage infrastructure, rising sea levels etc. This will be a bit wake up call for many, and will raise multiple issues around relocation, planning and legislation, insurance, people’s loss of owned homes and how they can afford to move etc. Hopefully this will put the urgent need to address emissions right in people’s faces too.

    A watershed moment for NZ (if you will excuse the pun).

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/345701/city-face-end-game-lowlands

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1

      No doubt democracy will have to be suspended while the market works out the best solution.

    • dukeofurl 1.2

      Dunedin had a 1 in 100yr rainfall ( 24 hr period), of course its going to overwhelm the drainage which is normally designed for 1 in 20 year rainfall.

      “The area might be one of New Zealand’s oldest suburbs, but it can’t escape its past as a ”reclaimed swamp”, Mr Cull said”

      Says it all really. Swamp – Rain -Flood. This is a lot of places in NZ over winter. Large parts of South Auckland- Takanini- Papakura are former swamps too. They too have a water table just inches below ground level in Winter.

      My topo map gives some streets around Tainui Dunedin at about 2m above SL. The Dutch would give anything be be 2m ABOVE SL.

      • weka 1.2.1

        🙄

      • Colonial Rawshark 1.2.2

        Dunedin had a 1 in 100yr rainfall ( 24 hr period), of course its going to overwhelm the drainage which is normally designed for 1 in 20 year rainfall

        So genius, when is the next 1 in 200yr rainfall due?

        And why do you believe the words of people who have not even lived for a hundred years – how would they know what a “1 in 100yr rainfall” even was?

        • dukeofurl 1.2.2.1

          Sorry if I get too sciency, as thats obvious proof according to you that Im a witch.

          The rainfall records are clear its a 1 in 100 year event. When was Dunedin founded, surely you know it was 1848. Even without 100 years of records its possible to create a reasonable rainfall probability chart. Its called maths!

          But wait its even more sciencey than that, as its not really only ‘once’ every 100 years, its instead that probability in any one year is 1% is that the rainfall will be exceeded that amount. So you could have 1 in 100 years storms 5 years apart.
          Doesnt change anything.

          • Pat 1.2.2.1.1

            hope those analysing those statistics wernt schooled by the same statisticians in ChCh who labelled the flooding there a year or so ago a “1 in !00 year rainfall” event when the the rain gauge figures showed that to be patently false….still, there are lies,damned lies and spokespeople.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.2.1.2

            Well if you’re going to bring odds into the equation…

            This from NASA:

            Practical effects of increasingly loaded climate dice occur mainly via amplified extremes of Earth’s water cycle.

            Hansen, Sato & Ruedi 2012.

    • Rosie 1.3

      Thats a very sobering article weka. When the local govt is seriously talking about plans to upsticks and all that that will involve it’s a sure sign of our future having arrived.

      • weka 1.3.1

        I think we are here too.

        I was impressed by the ODT writing such a long article and laying out the issues.

  2. weka 2

    “She said while the roads were not at risk of rapid erosion in the next five to 10 years, it could occur if a plan was not implemented to protect the coast.”

    And Dunedin,

    Excelsa raises an interesting point, how Dunedin will “communicate with the rest of New Zealand when it becomes a coastal Island. Dunedin’s only road and rail access is along a coastal corridor at Blueskin Bay and the Taieri Plains which are only a few metres above current sea level”

    Aren’t we lucky we had this flood before the Compass meal delivery service started!

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/345701/city-face-end-game-lowlands#comment-72752

  3. Poission 3

    More than 3m swells are forecast to continue to hit the Lyall Bay after large waves washed debris and boulders onto Moa Point Rd yesterday. … The capital’s mayor, Celia Wade-Brown, told Fairfax Media this morning that Wellington’s south coast roads were under increasing threat of large swells because of global warming.

    The event (ie the large swells) have an inverse sign to global warming expectations.

    Southern polar synoptic events are expected to decrease.The event (a polar breakout) of large low pressure systems increased sea level heights to the east with a concomitant flow onto the east coast .

    This tends to occur with a negative excursion of the SAM.

    http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/daily_ao_index/aao/aao.sprd2.gif

    http://pamola.um.maine.edu/fcst_frames/GFS-025deg/DailySummary/GFS-025deg_NH-SAT5_PMSL.png

    • maui 3.1

      In layman’s terms?

      • dukeofurl 3.1.1

        Wade- Brown is making it up. Large swells from polar low pressure systems are expected to decrease.
        Ms Wade- Brown is confused with the slow sea level rise from AGW.

        Plus with Wellington likely to rise because of tectonic movement ( created the shelfs along coast where roads were built) maybe they will balance out.

        • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1.1

          ah yes, the hope and pray approach to AGW

          • dukeofurl 3.1.1.1.1

            For people on the exposed southern coast, their position has always been precarious, so they really dont have much choice.

            Better to make improvements in other places and continue to lower greenhouse gases.

            • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Ah yes, we saw this attitude after the Christchurch earthquakes too: for those Kiwis in the too hard basket, let’s just abandon them and look the other way. What else have you learnt from Tony Blair.

              • dukeofurl

                We can see the SNP has learnt from Tony Blair as they are following his policies, and of course breaking their promises like him too

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  The SNP following Tony Blair’s policies? You’re dreaming mate. Tony Blair would be 100% for Trident and 100% for austerity. Is it tough in Scotland at the moment. You betcha. But that’s what Tory rule and austerity does.

                  • dukeofurl

                    It is tough in Scotland as unemployment is rising while still falling in the rest of UK.

      • Poission 3.1.2

        In layman’s terms?

        AGW =less southerlies.

  4. Clean_power 4

    A very easy way out, but, what natural phenomena cannot be attributed to climate change? Which one?

    These days too much rain orsnow or wind or drought happen because of climate change. What is left: earthquakes?

    • weka 4.1

      Do you think that earthquakes are weather?

    • dukeofurl 4.2

      Too late , the extremists have said it

      ” Professor Bill McGuire of University College London introduced his new book Waking the Giant: How a changing climate triggers earthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanoes on the Guardian’s science weekly podcast a few weeks ago, he started with a warning: “It does sound a bit mad, but it isn’t…”

      • Rosie 4.2.1

        And from the RNZ link in Anthony’s post:

        “We’ve had droughts, increased typhon severity and frequency, and the island is very active with lots of dormant volcanoes. The effect of climate change is of course to make the ocean heavier, so that’s causing more earthquakes,” Mr Winkler said.

        -Taiwanese Green Party spokesperson.

        There you go.

        • dukeofurl 4.2.1.1

          Thats a new one , making the ocean heavier. Thats a good laugh.

          Cold water is of course denser.

          • dv 4.2.1.1.1

            Why?

            • dukeofurl 4.2.1.1.1.1

              You do know that cold water is denser ? That the spokesperson for the Taiwan green party is a complete idiot ?

              But back to your question, ever noticed smoke rises up the chimney

              • weka

                At least they believe in the seriousness of AGW and that we should be doing something about it.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Everything I’ve seen so far indicates that you’re the idiot.

              • dv

                ‘Cold water is of course denser.

                SO thus the water is heavier.
                AND more water in the ocean – more weight.

                More weight could trigger fault line movement couldn’t it?

                • dukeofurl

                  Not in the way you are saying . the temperature expands or contracts the waters volume. The weight or mass essentially stays the same.

                  There is a tiny sealevel rise from warming oceans as the seawater expands.

                  The extra water which will increase the total depth of water is too low compared to the average depth of oceans .

                  if this were so , we would see earthquakes triggered by high or low tides ( which are say 1 -3m in a very short time).

                  of course there is no theory that has weight of water affecting earthquakes anyway.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Hmm, not quite – cf: the Three Gorges Dam and other examples such as Oroville.

                    It would be drawing a long bow to compare them to gradual increase in ocean mass, though.

                    • dukeofurl

                      That is not the new mass of water, its the same process as fracking.

                      The water is forced into the rock through crevasses and acts as a lubricant.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Reservoir-induced seismicity. Look it up.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                You do know that cold water is denser ? That the spokesperson for the Taiwan green party is a complete idiot ?

                As big an idiot as the head of the ruling party in Australia? It’s really hard to understand what your point is or why you think it is relevant.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.2

            A few years ago some postulated that Greenland losing it’s ice sheet would actually lower the ocean around Britain. The reason why was because of the decreased gravitational effect of the ice upon the water and the decreased weight upon the land would allow it to rise up compared to where it is now.

            Now, if you think that something the size of Greenland rising up a few metres isn’t going to cause earthquakes then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

            Seal levels rising due to melting ice is going to shift billions, if not trillions, of tonnes of mass around the earth and something is going to give – and it won’t be the water.

            • TheContrarian 4.2.1.1.2.1

              I wonder about the science of that…namely…

              “because of the decreased gravitational effect of the ice upon the water”
              I’m not quite sure what this is supposed to mean but what is the gravitational force of the ice? We’d need to know the mass before speculating on what it’s gravitational effect is

              “the decreased weight upon the land would allow it to rise up compared to where it is now”
              Depends on plate tectonics, is Greenland being pushed up?

              “Now, if you think that something the size of Greenland rising up a few metres isn’t going to cause earthquakes then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.”
              It should already being subject to earthquakes – if it is on a plate boundary it would experience earthquakes with or without ice

              “Seal levels rising due to melting ice is going to shift billions, if not trillions, of tonnes of mass around the earth and something is going to give”
              Would an increase in the mass of the oceans cause increases in earthquakes? If so why?

              Curious about the science of this and if you have further reading I could look at please post em

              • Draco T Bastard

                I’m not quite sure what this is supposed to mean but what is the gravitational force of the ice? We’d need to know the mass before speculating on what it’s gravitational effect is

                Knock yourself out.

                Depends on plate tectonics, is Greenland being pushed up?

                According to the article I read at the time, which I can’t find now, yes. But not necessarily for the reason you think. There’s also some argument on whether Greenland is it’s own plate or just an extension of the North American plate but it does experience earthquakes.

                Would an increase in the mass of the oceans cause increases in earthquakes? If so why?

                Because of plate tectonics and shifting mass around a fluid centre. Has everyone forgotten that the Earth’s Crust is floating on a liquid? Sure, it’s liquid rock and it’s fairly dense and viscous but its still a bloody liquid.

                Curious about the science of this and if you have further reading I could look at please post em

                IIRC, it was something some scientist type had postulated and done some quick sums. He, himself, was surprised by the results but I don’t know if the research has been taken any further but it does, IMO, make some logical sense.

                • TheContrarian

                  “Because of plate tectonics and shifting mass around a fluid centre.”

                  Well yeah, that’s why I asked. Why would the mass of the oceans effect plate tectonics?

                  As to the rest I guess it’ll have to go in the folder labelled “speculative” for now.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    It’s a little more than mere speculation, apparently.

                    These temporal patterns suggest a link to the hydrological cycle and are indicative of a dynamic glacial response to changing climate conditions.

                    • dukeofurl

                      Icequakes are not earthquakes, as the ice is of course constantly moving.
                      The meltwater passes through the ice cracks and can lubricate movement as well as tunnelling through the ice.

                      Glaciers are a complete different story to plate tectonics and geologic faults

                      Glaciers have a well established connection to climate change , its all because they are just water in a different form.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Oh, definitely in the speculative basket but I can’t see why you’re missing the “shifting mass around a fluid centre.” Press one end of a floating plate down and a number of things are going to happen:

                    1. That end will go down
                    2. The other end will lift up
                    3. The liquid under it is going to move shifting the other floating plates around it

                    And remember that it’s not plates in a bath but connected floating plates around sphere. Some shift is bound to happen. How much is the question.

                    • dukeofurl

                      See below, Scotland is rising while England is sinking due to geostatic rebound.

                      Doesnt seem to be more earthquakes in England than in Scotland.

                      Earthquakes are very difficult to match to theory. T
                      The fracking connection came about from recording of a big jump in quakes in some areas having extensive fracking

            • dukeofurl 4.2.1.1.2.2

              Gravitation rebound is still occuring in Northern Europe from last ice age. Same as in Canada/US where there were ice sheets a few km thick.

              Its a whole different scale to day as the sea level fell 120m, all though sea level rise when it melted was at most 1m average per century, a figure we are unlikely to reach.

              Scotland had large glaciation so had rebound up to 10cm per century, while southern England , not covered by ice, has been adjusting downwards 5cm per century.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Gravitation rebound is still occuring in Northern Europe from last ice age.

                And you don’t think losing some 3 million cubic kilometres would accelerate that somewhat?

                • dukeofurl

                  Well 3 mill km3 is the total volume of Greenland ice. They havent lost all that yet.

                  Recent research has shown a period when temps were 8C warmer than present didnt have much impact on this ice cap. But that may need more followup.

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    Recent research has shown a period when temps were 8C warmer than present didnt have much impact on this ice cap. But that may need more followup.

                    Remind me what the human population was, when temps were 8C warmer than now.

                    • dukeofurl

                      The point was the icecap didnt melt completely even in this warmer period.
                      Since we are warming the planet we can work to stop that or even reverse it.

          • Rosie 4.2.1.1.3

            Hey well it’s news to me dukeofurl but it’s something I’d like to learn the basics of, given I’m not a climate scientist.

            • dukeofurl 4.2.1.1.3.1

              It would help if you dont listen to a lot of the Greens, they arent even science based in many other things.
              The interesting thing about climate science is they dont take much notice of the weather either, its the longer trends. More droughts but not really this drought.
              And definitely not this ‘storm du jour’

              • Draco T Bastard

                It would help if you dont listen to a lot of the Greens, they arent even science based in many other things.

                And now you’re just outright fucken lying. The Green parties around the world are the most scientifically based political parties ever.

                • weka

                  +1. Useful for duke to destroy any credibility he has though.

                  The faux reasonable undermining of concern about CC is tiresome.

                • dukeofurl

                  Not in Taiwan.

                  Hows your science based MP Steffan Browning ?

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    LOL “science based”

                    What we need is a new ethos and a new philosophy for the coming age; and let’s get real here, there are no “science based” political parties because politics is about values and philosophy.

                  • weka

                    Easy slurs duke, but just more troling. Look at NZ GP policy and tell me which bits aren’t science based?

                    • dukeofurl

                      Ceclia Wade Brown has got back on the science bus, as in the TV report she says ‘only’ that the sea storm surge is what it will be like in the future.
                      No sign of her earlier report that todays storm surge was because of climate change is here now.

                  • maui

                    Any sign of science based National Party policies yet?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                No, in fact, clearly you are ignorant of Peter Trenberth’s response to questions about climate’s effect upon weather.

                Shall I Google it for you?

                • dukeofurl

                  Climate is just weather over a long term. I understand he just said the climate is changing.

                  You are confusing weather with climate, a common mistake.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    No, I’m not, I’m trying to educate you about the reality that Climate affects all weather.

                    For extreme events, the question isn’t, ‘Is it global warming or natural variability? It is always both. The question is just how much each is contributing.

                    Kevin Trenberth.

                    How you think there is going to be some weather that isn’t affected by climate change is beyond me.

                    • weka

                      “How you think there is going to be some weather that isn’t affected by climate change is beyond me.”

                      This.

                    • dukeofurl

                      Not quite all weather . When are we going to have more hurricanes in the US?

                      My question about the weather was the future will show more effects from climate change, but since so far only a small amount of AGW has occurred up to 2010 or so its hard to pin down the naturally occurring events.
                      But its clear future weather is more affected

                    • dukeofurl

                      Heres the technical basis for my opinion that not ALL weather is affected so far by AGW

                      “Globally, there is low confidence in attribution of changes in tropical cyclone activity to human influence. This is due to insufficient observational evidence, lack of physical understanding of the links between anthropogenic drivers of climate and tropical cyclone activity,”

                      http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_TS_FINAL.pdf . page 73

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      what’s your policy point, dukeofurl – to sit back and wait for more evidence to accumulate first?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.2

        Post glacial rebound.

        Accepted as fact since 1890, until you came along.

    • McFlock 4.3

      Fracking causes earthquakes.

      • Bill 4.3.1

        Heat causes expansion. Expansion (if energy is absorbed deep enough) could change the interface between different plates. That could increase earthquake frequency.

        I’m not saying that’s the case – just applying basic physics to really big scale stuff.

        Besides fracking, building really big fuck-off dams increases the incidence of tremors too.

        • dukeofurl 4.3.1.1

          “Heat causes expansion. Expansion (if energy is absorbed deep enough) could change the interface between different plates. That could increase earthquake frequency.”

          Geothermal gradient is the rate of increasing temperature with respect to increasing depth in the Earth’s interior. Away from tectonic plate boundaries, it is about 25 °C per km of depth.

          There is no evidence that the small temperature change of oceans could effect tectonic movement, which occurs from 5 to 250km. As well the heat flow from the earth is outwards

          I think some are plucking at straws.

          • Bill 4.3.1.1.1

            I’ll match your “I think some are plucking at straws” with the stated “I’m not saying that’s the case – ” and then raise you a “Read the fucking comment you’re offering an opinion on”

            • dukeofurl 4.3.1.1.1.1

              Well I’m writing to the Nobel committee after this to ask they immediately give recognition to your discovery of the reversal of the heat flow of the earths crust.

              Its quite breathtaking, that you have done all this without any empirical research, but no doubt the pure theory of it will dazzle all when you reveal it at your symposium.

              Who could have thought the ‘energy is absorbed deep enough’ it triggers earthquakes too. But if heatflow is reversed ‘anything can happen’-
              I plagiarized that, though from Dancing with the Stars

              But one little thing, give us a hint of the delta you are referring to ?

              • weka

                All your sciency comments just look like anti-AGW troling now (esp after the weird comment about the GP not being science based). It’s hard to take anything you say seriously after that.

                • dukeofurl

                  Whos anti AGW ? Not me.
                  People who say the oceans are heavier because the water is warming are just boofheads, and in this case a Green party member as well.

                  Why dont YOU call them out as being anti science, is it too hard when you are supposedly science friendly yourself .

                  My ‘opinion’ is that it makes it harder for AGW policies to be put in place when mostly green extremists are muddying the message.

                  You are an extreme green, so be it, but save the slut shaming of those who arent so pure as yourself

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    why don’t you tell us what Tony Blair has to say about AGW.

                  • weka

                    Of course you are an AGW denialist. We know that many of the denialists have moved on from denying existence to denying what needs to be done. Everything I’ve seen you write on this lately has been attempts to undermine people’s genuine concerns about CC and how it is affecting things now and in our near futures. I’ve yet to see you write anything useful in terms of the ‘what do we do now?’ debate.

                    That you tell lies about the only party in NZ that is taking CC seriously tells me everything I need to know about your beliefs. You don’t have to like the GP politically, but what you are saying about them is demonstrably false. You’re part of the problem.

                    It probably doesn’t matter because we’re at a tipping point in terms of where the general public are at, but look how you’ve tied up this conversation today. All that wasted energy, instead of us debating what needs to be done. It’s exactly the same dynamic as the out and out denialists of the past.

                    • dukeofurl

                      Thats amazing , you read your tarot cards and its come curtains for me. Youre an expert at rooting out deniers where ever they are.

                      Must be because I sound all ‘sciency’ and that makes it wrong

                      I dont give the denier views a seconds thought simply because they are wrong. It seems you have studied it , good luck with that.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Mate you don’t sound “sciency” in the least. You do sound like you have an agenda though.

                • Rosie

                  “All your sciency comments just look like anti-AGW troling now”

                  I reckon.

                  Not to mention the quotes without a source or link, eg, 8.1 below

                  • weka

                    I noticed that too. Strange to cut and paste but not link.

                    • dukeofurl

                      Was that some radical science views was it ?

                      Or a statement of the obvious.
                      Im glad you found proof cant let me get a swifty past you.

            • infused 4.3.1.1.1.2

              best reply so far.

      • marty mars 4.3.2

        “Fracking causes earthquakes.”

        Exactly and who’d have thunk that one.

        Anyone got any studies on how they cause earthquakes?

        • McFlock 4.3.2.1

          Most stuff seems to be related to the whats more than the whys or hows. But this article links to a couple of reports.

          Seems that if you apply lots of pressure and add lube along a fault, you can cause fault slippage. oo-er

  5. Sable 5

    Greed in the face of extinction. Utter morons…..

  6. Skinny 6

    Many critics sight the reluctance of the big polluting Nations to buy in as a reason to sit on their hands. Key is already making noise around ‘the poor farmers are taking a hiding without more hoops.’

  7. esoteric pineapples 7

    In the not too distant future, properties too close to the water line won’t be able to get insurance. This will be well before they are finally swallowed up by the sea. Once they can’t get insurance they will be virtually valueless as you need insurance to get a mortgage, and who with cash to buy them would use it on a property with no future value. Before this happens, LIM reports will have a warning on such properties which will deflate their value. Kapiti Coast residents have been fighting having this fact on their LIMs but it will only be a matter of time before councils decide the liability risk of not having them in LIMs outweighs any legal threat from residents.

    • weka 7.1

      I’m guessing it’s already happening (from the ODT link).

      The latest flooding was also likely to have created fresh insurance headaches in parts of South Dunedin, with coverage likely to become more difficult and premiums expected to ”go through the roof”.

  8. Rosie 8

    Those massive sea swells yesterday were bizarre. The sea was calm and the air still. We were driving between Petone and Eastbourne and were just lucky enough to miss waves coming up on to the road. We then went back into the city for a walk around the waterfront. Have never seen the tide so high in the harbour, even the steps/seating at Kumototo were submerged.
    A very strange sight, maybe there’s more of that to come.

    • dukeofurl 8.1

      Sea level is locally affected by air pressure, winds , tides.

      ” A difference from the average of 1 hPa can cause a difference in height of 1 centimetre. A low barometer will allow the sea level to rise and a high barometer will tend to depress it”. At most it could be 30cm.

      A wind blowing into the harbour like Wellington will push seal level up along shore, same applies to lakes.

      All these put together plus a a expected high tide of 1.8m, near the max and you get the result.
      The Tides in Auckland are over 3m while around equator they are only a few cm

      • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.1

        You forgot melting land-based ice sheets and glaciers. They affect sea level too.

      • Rosie 8.1.2

        Metservice says the expected high tide for today is 1.8 metres at 3.40, which I agree is near it’s maximum:

        http://www.metservice.com/marine-surf/tides/wellington

        but do you know what yesterdays high tide was? I don’t.

        There wasn’t a breath of wind yesterday so that wasn’t pushing the sea level up.

        Having grown up on the Kapiti Coast ( see E.P’s post above) across from the sea, I’ve witnessed some mad high tides but nothing like yesterdays on such a calm day.

        As for Auckland, haven’t they had problem in recent years with part of the north western motorway being flooded by unusually high tides? Seem to recall something about that.

        • dukeofurl 8.1.2.1

          Are you saying its magic or its natural processes.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.2.1.1

            You forgot to mention the documented anthropogenic factors.

          • Colonial Rawshark 8.1.2.1.2

            Are you saying its magic or its natural processes.

            Try and listen instead of being a know it all. Rosie is trying to communicate to you that the combination of things she perceived seemed subjectively very unusual.

            • Rosie 8.1.2.1.2.1

              Exactly. Thank you CR.

              And as for you dukeofurl, theres no need to be a smart arse.

              You’re simply coming across as someone whose trying to explain away increasingly odd weather as natural and compleeeeetly unrelated to climate change, when that discussion was over years ago.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                we’re going to see more intellectual rationalising away of what we see happening around us, even as things get worse and worse over the next 10-20 years.

                Ask the old farmers and rural folk who have been around the countryside for at least forty or fifty years – if these no-nonsense folk say something is definitely screwy, that’s as good as gospel.

                Forget the clever young city slickers, too many of those people don’t know shit.

              • dukeofurl

                Whos the clever one now ?

                “Partially or wholly due to poor roading engineering possibly?

                Why didnt you tell us you were a roading expert and could peer review these things.

                • Rosie

                  Whose the twat now?

                  Just like I’m not a climate scientist I’m also not a roading engineer (or Inghinair as Nick Smith says) but have spent my life surrounded by engineer types who say engineery things.

                  No it doesn’t qualify me to comment on what issues the NW motorway in Akld is facing but equally you don’t seem to be able to hold up your climate change denying argument. Furthermore, the more you talk about it the more defensive you seem to get.

                  I’m outta here.

                  • dukeofurl

                    Why say its poor engineering with your value judgement.

                    Its been 60 years or so. Settlement will occur that long a period , theres a formula that will predict that. The deeper the mud the more settlement will happen as the decades stretch out.

                    The Osaka airport, even with best engineering predictions will have 17m to 24m by end of century. Even their best estimates at design stage are bit low so far.
                    I could write pages on this, but its not really poor engineering

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.2

          As for Auckland, haven’t they had problem in recent years with part of the north western motorway being flooded by unusually high tides?

          I remember that happening when I was a child 40 years ago. The big problem with that part of the North Western is that it’s on a cause way that’s sinking and so it’s getting worse. It’s now to the point that they’ve decided that they need to do something about it – urgently.

          • dukeofurl 8.1.2.2.1

            The purely tidal effects are fairly normal. Tides can be increased by up to 30 cm by low pressure, wind in a certain direction can push the surface layer, increasing the water level inside an enclosed harbour like Auckland. Tides of course vary with King Tides occurring when Earth and Moon line up.

            Thames in the other direction is prone to sea flooding when the wind is in the other direction.

            Sea level rise so far has been quite small in Auckland area. The significant effect is natural causes and possibly more storms, but I havent seen the longer term climate records.

          • Rosie 8.1.2.2.2

            “The big problem with that part of the North Western is that it’s on a cause way that’s sinking and so it’s getting worse”

            Partially or wholly due to poor roading engineering possibly?

            • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.2.2.1

              It’s an artificial causeway so wholly due to poor engineering and the fact that it just wasn’t a good place to put a causeway.

              Here’s some pics of its beginnings.

              It’s the Rosebank Road side that’s sinking. The other side is fine (I think).

              • Rosie

                Fascinating to see the evolution of that segment of the NW motorway. (I remember driving that road from my time living in Akld).

                Surely that stretch must have massive remedial works to be undertaken as our environment changes. Wonder who carries the cost for that…

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  Need to go to rail and trains; putting money in roads now is a waste

    • Clean_power 8.2

      Climate change is now the cause of earthquakes and volcanoes (formally geological phenomena). Wellington’s Celia Wade-Brown’s big waves were directly caused by climate change too.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.1

        🙄

        Look everyone, here’s a Petty George clone.

      • Colonial Rawshark 8.2.2

        It is important to observe the likes of clean power and dukeofurl.

        Even as AGW effects clearly worsen over the next 10 years people like them will deny harder than ever that there is any real problem that society needs to sort out ASAP.

        The age of denial continues.

        • dukeofurl 8.2.2.1

          We have a problem and we need to makes changes.

          You are the one who couldn’t pass a high school climate change course, yet thinks he knows better than the considered opinions of the scientists at IPCC.

          There is too much hot air allready

    • vto 8.3

      Rosie, there was nothing bizarre about the high water and waves in Wellington yesterday and today…..

      it is quite simply the result of an intense giant low deep down south which pushed a very powerful long period swell up the coast. It also had a bit of west in it, just enough to fire on into the harbour, combined with some tidal highs, that is all.

      These swells come and go occasionally. Just now, from the south and the west, NZ is getting a hammering of swells larger than usual. It started about two months ago and I suspect you will see more of the same over the next few more weeks. It is a strong el nino event right now.

      Happens every few years. Was an even bigger one about ten years ago which threw seals and rocks and debris all up and over the road and rail at Kaikoura. People thought it bizarre then too as there was no wind – just big powerful swell generated in far off seas.

      Sea is colder than usual now too in our parts. Intense storms for the winter – make sure the sumps are clear ….

      • Rosie 8.3.1

        Well thank you vto for your rational approach, unlike our friend dukeofurl who seems to be getting increasingly hysterical.

        I had forgotten we were having another el nino, but I don’t know for sure what affect it has on the tides.

        I have to repeat, that was some freaky swell. I’d never seen the likes of it and it’s not like I’m a youg un with nothing to compare it to, or haven’t been around surfies going on about epic swells, or being carried half way out to Kapiti island on giant waves as a kiddie.

        Sorry to hear about the seals.

        • vto 8.3.1.1

          Those occasional giant swells are pretty cool. And if you live Petone Eastbourne area then next time shoot out to the south coast via Wainui, especially if a norwester is blowing too. Spectacular scenes. Deep Cook Strait waters immediately offshore suck it all in and explode it on the shore…. so fine for the soul…

  9. Tracey 9

    In the meantime we are investing $125m in an Asian Bank. Seems there ARE times Key doesn’t mind us being trailblazers… and surprise surprise it involves a bank

    “New Zealand has agreed to become a founding member of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, the Government has announced.

    “Increased infrastructure investment will enhance the Asian region’s growth and that will be good for New Zealand,” Finance Minister Bill English said.

    “New Zealand was the first western developed nation to join negotiations to set up the Bank and our membership will enhance our already strong economic, trade and investment links with the Asian region.”

    New Zealand’s paid in capital will be around NZ$125 million, paid over five years, the statement said.

    The Bank of China led initiative has promoted itself as a means of making up the infrastructure gap between Asia and other parts of the world, however it has led to a diplomatic struggle.

    The United States has reportedly lobbied countries not to join, raising concerns about its governance.

    Privately diplomats have claimed that the bank could be used to expand China’s influence.

    Foreign Minister Murray McCully said Asia was “important to New Zealand’s future” meaning it made sense to invest in the region.

    “Asia is driving global growth and it is full of opportunities for New Zealand. This new Bank will be a welcome addition to existing institutions and it stands to make a significant contribution to infrastructure in the region.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/69407785/nz-agrees-to-join-divisive-asian-infrastructure-investment-bank

    more about who has joined
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Infrastructure_Investment_Bank

    • Tracey 9.1

      “The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) has the mandate to foster economic growth in Asia by investing in infrastructure and other productive areas and promoting regional cooperation and partnership. As a new multilateral development bank (MDB) in the 21st century, AIIB’s approach will be “lean, clean and green”, with a focus on efficiency, sustainability and transparency. The Bank will also work closely with the existing MDBs — complementing, supplementing and enhancing their development efforts.

      • Kiwiri 9.1.1

        Which former National MPs, if any, have been involved in the AIIB or related bodies?

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.2

        And still not actually needed. Each country has enough resources to develop itself without outside help and, most especially, without outside money.

      • Colonial Rawshark 9.1.3

        The AIIB is a Chinese initiative designed to reduce dependence on US sponsored, western oriented multilateral organisations like the IMF and the World Bank.

  10. ‘We’ face a minim of a 6 meter sea level rise in the foreseeable future, that is the fact when the environment has 400 ppm CO2 in it, well it was last time the planet hit 400 ppm, back in 250 million BC, —– going on past examples, not fuckwit ‘opinions’.
    The rules of nature haven’t changed in the past 250,002,015 years have they? water is still wet, fire still burns, sea levels go UP with higher CO2 levels.
    Or maybe you all are happy listening to the utter bullshit from the wankers? like Cur P Gluckman etal.
    Now some dummy is going to say, we are at 400ppm now, so were is the sea level rise?
    Luckily for us there is still ICE, last time the planet got to 400ppm it did so SLOOOOWLY ie over something like 10,000 years, we have done it in less than 135 years. So BACK THEN there was no ice by the time the planet hit 400ppm
    Last time, over that 10,000 year period there was also about 833 methane lifetimes, ie the methane was ‘born’ lived in the atmosphere for approximately 12 years, then converted to CO2 —- 833 times or there abouts ??? THIS time ‘we’ have done it in maybe 11 methane life times.
    We face the continued rapid melting of the ice, until the planet reaches the enviable ice free status that is 400ppm.
    The ‘rub’ is that there is mega tons of carbon and CH4 stored under the melting ice, be it the tundra, Antarctica or the deep sea clathrates. Don’t take my word for us being utterly fucked, listen to maybe James Hanson “Once the clathrate gun goes off earth will be on a non stop journey to Venus” .. or some such 😉
    FFS what part of this do idiots not understand?
    It will only take something like 5% of what is ‘stored’ under the East Siberian Arctic Shelf (ESAS) to DOUBLE the CO2 levels in the environment.
    Currently where the methane ‘volcanoes’ were erupting last summer it is up to 16C, good luck stopping the tundra melting at those temperatures.
    Arctic Methane Emergency: Methane released by the Gigaton! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F9ed5E54s4
    Arctic methane skyrocketing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ckkxEnWpA
    Is the Methane monster about to roar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz_XfjvMpmA
    Arctic Emergency: Scientists Speak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3XpF1MvC8s
    Natalia Shakhova, PhD. Marine Geology “2 million square Kilometers of 20k deep sediment loaded with CH4” The is the ESAS
    50 GT of CH4 ‘any day’? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx1Jxk6kjbQ
    Permafrost Methane Time Bomb NBC News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w4UQfJHD-A
    Mystery of the Siberian crater deepens: Now two NEW large holes appear in Siberia -Yamal Peninsula – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm5vn6iE1SI – YAMAL means THE EARTH’S END
    Sea wall? yeah right 😉

  11. infused 11

    NZ’s impact on clime change won’t affect anything that’ you’ve said.

    • Colonial Rawshark 11.1

      It is still right to take the moral stance, to acknowledge and act on the unfolding reality so if nothing else we can look our children and our grandchildren in the eye and say that we did our very best to redeem ourselves.

      • Robert Atack 11.1.1

        CR
        One good thing, if your children aren’t at the age of breeding, you will never have to look their children in the eyes ) … they will not exist.

    • maui 11.2

      We’re one of the highest emitters in the world (per person) and we’re one of the rich countries that has caused the problem. So what we do will have a big impact around the world I would have to say.

      • Robert Atack 11.2.1

        If every Kiwi left the planet tonight, it would make zero impact on Climate Change, in fact if every human left the planet tonight, the planet would still go Venus.
        Not forgetting the 440 Nuke power plants that need up to 60? years to dismantle and make safe, and for most of that time they will need a constant power supply to keep the cooling systems working, no cooling = Fukushima.

        • maui 11.2.1.1

          Since we don’t have an accurate timeline on if or even when the earth will “go venus” I’m still willing to put my faith in humans. That humans are in control of their fate and humans will decide what our future world looks like.

          • Colonial Rawshark 11.2.1.1.1

            They may be healthy conceits, but that is all they are, unfortunately. Even a cursory review of the rise and fall of empires/civilisations over the last 2500 years will tell you that none of those things are true.

            • dukeofurl 11.2.1.1.1.1

              Its fairly clear too, climate change played a role in some of those.

          • Robert Atack 11.2.1.1.2

            “decide what our future world looks like.”
            We have kind of done that Maui,
            It will look devoid of humans )
            The scale of the problem is massive, humans don’t do anything on the scale of what would be needed to reverse what is in motion, the area needed to drag the gigatons of carbon out of the atmosphere would have to be bigger than the tar sands foot print, bigger than all the concrete we have used in the past 100 years, and bigger than all the coal we have mined and burned.
            There are a billion combustion engines currently turning 3 cubic kilometers of oil into CO2 each year, and have been for what the last 30? Well maybe 30 years ago there were only 500 million?
            These are the numbers from 2005 ish?
            Automobiles, globally: 722 million
            Automobiles, USA: 132 million
            Trucks (all types, in USA): 1.5 million
            Buses: (all types, in USA): more than 654,000
            Locomotives: (USA) 26,000
            World aircraft fleet: 11,000 aircraft more than 100 passengers. All 11,000 designed for oil-based fuel.
            World shipping: 85,000 ships in the world.
            Decked fishing boats in the world: 1.2 million
            I can’t remember the #s but coal is worse.?
            We can’t even imagine about how we could reverse the affect this has had on the planet.

        • johnm 11.2.1.2

          Yeh it’s like we’ve provoked the gentle monster relentlessly and the coward’s done nothing, but now aroused he will finish arrogant human scum off. No! they’ll scream it can’t happen to us! We’re the children of Father God! aren’t we! We’re special we’re not like those animals we slaughter in the billions are we? Are we?!

          • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1.2.1

            It’s almost like we’re out to prove the answer to the Fermi Paradox.

            • TheContrarian 11.2.1.2.1.1

              That Fermi Paradox article is awesome. One of the best explanations I have seen yet. Shared around many times in the last few months

        • Bill 11.2.1.3

          Not sure that’s quite right. Fukushima could have been ‘shut down’ fairly fast. Sure, loads of radioactive decay in rods to deal with, and a hot, though ‘shut down’ reactor core, but no need for constant cooling.

          I’m partly basing that on the fact that most (all?) of Japans reactors were shut down (‘hot’ fuel rods removed from the core?) after Fukushima and communities railed against them being brought back on line.

          • Robert Atack 11.2.1.3.1

            All the fuel rods need to be kept cool, that is what they are doing @ Fukushima, they have lost 3 of the cores, and are mainly focused on the old fuel rods., which are stored in 4 above ground tanks and one massive below ground one.
            They need electricity to keep the pumps running.
            They maybe off line, but they still have to keep them cool, that is my point.

            • Colonial Rawshark 11.2.1.3.1.1

              Yep basically; at Fukushima like at many other reactor sites around the world, they found it cheaper to store used fuel rods in the temporary storage pools which were onsite, rather than have them properly casked up and shipped to permanent storage facilities (which more often than not don’t actually exist). They ended up storing more used fuel rods in those cooling pools than they were ever originally designed for.

              Net result, Fukushima’s temporary used fuel storage pools were stacked up to the max with old fuel rods still giving off a massive amount of heat and therefore requiring active cooling. When the water pumps turned off, the coolant pools simply boiled away and the fuel rods melted down/exploded.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                the coolant pools simply boiled away and the fuel rods melted down/exploded.

                I have not seen anything to suggest this happened: certainly three reactor cores melted down, and spent fuel storage pools were severely compromised.

      • tangled_up 11.2.2

        I agree. It is true that our emissions don’t count for much and what is needed is China and the US to come to the party. Though the movement is about momentum and global pressure also so it is important we play our part.

        • Bill 11.2.2.1

          The science says that zero by 50 is essential to have any chance of avoiding really, really bad shit. NZ can claim that only 20% of NZ emissions are from energy. It doesn’t matter though. That 20% must become 0% by mid century. There ain’t no getting off the hook in a world that requires zero fossil related emissions.

          Might want to posit that against the political call for 50% below 1990 levels by 2050…

          • Draco T Bastard 11.2.2.1.1

            +1

          • Colonial Rawshark 11.2.2.1.2

            I rather suspect that 2050 will be far too late to avoid 4-5 deg C warming.

            • dukeofurl 11.2.2.1.2.1

              Does the IPCC agree with you on that in AR5 , that will have 4-5 C increase in 35 years time ?

              • Colonial Rawshark

                Not now, but they will in a couple of years time.

                • dukeofurl

                  Those tarot cards must be awesome, in that they allow you to predict the future.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    No tarot cards, just the knowledge that the IPCC has been far too conservative in their estimations and that seems to be due to political interference from climate change deniers in the US administration over the years.

                    • dukeofurl

                      There is some suggestion that the SPM is watered down by politicians when they get together for a talk fest.

                      But the main review of the science. Its quite breathtaking if you say they are wrong because it doesnt suit you.
                      in the IPCC report:
                      Long-term Climate Change: Projections, Commitments
                      and Irreversibility

                      They have a range of of RCP values which is connected to forcings

                      The highest is RCP 8.5 which gives 3.7C +- 0.7 by the end of the century.
                      (plus 0.11 for temperatures measured around 1990)
                      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_Concentration_Pathways

                      http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessmentreport/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter12_FINAL.pdf pg 1054

                      These are the best minds and experts in this area but it doesnt surprise me that somehow people with a poor level of science knowledge, as shown in todays discussions, havent the faintest idea and are just making it up.

                      Volcanoes and earthquakes and heavy water, we are dealing with a ship of fools

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      what’s your point dukeofurl? So you’re a champion of the IPCC reports. Good on you. What are you actually suggesting that we do as a society? Anything? More talking?

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      @dukeofurl

                      Its quite breathtaking if you say they are wrong because it doesnt suit you.

                      I didn’t say that did I? I said that it seems to have been too conservative in its estimations due to political interference and lo and behold:
                      IPCC reports ‘diluted’ under ‘political pressure’ to protect fossil fuel interests

                      Increasing evidence is emerging that the policy summaries on climate impacts and mitigation by the UN Intergovernment Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) were significantly ‘diluted’ under political pressure from some of the world’s biggest greenhouse gas emitters, including Saudi Arabia, China, Brazil and the United States.

                      Several experts familiar with the IPCC government approval process for the ‘Summary for Policymakers’ (SPM) reports – documents summarising the thousands of pages of technical and scientific reports for government officials – have spoken out about their distortion due to political interests.

                      And that’s not the first article I’ve read showing evidence that governments have been putting pressure on the IPCC to water down their conclusions.

                      And even if you don’t accept the possibility of political interference in the IPCC we can have a look at what’s actually happened:

                      In many similar cases, the evidence suggests that changes in climate are occurring faster, and with more intensity, than the IPCC have predicted.

                      You seem to be the one grasping at straws.

                    • dukeofurl

                      I said the SPM is written by politicians , mostly not scientists, thats why I stuck to the core science which is still written by scientists.

                      But no , you have some guy on a blog. Plus something called WS12.
                      It seems they are talking about past temperatures only, and they give a weighting of 5% more in their analysis. Not exactly earth shattering stuff. We see how it goes in next AR WG1 when it comes out.

                      Is there better justification about future temperature increases ?

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The SPM is still written by the scientists but they’re put under pressure to paint things as being better than they are by the politicians.

                      There’s also the fact that evidence has, so far, shown that the IPCC projections are below what’s actually happening in the real world as I linked to. Hopefully the next AR will correct that but scientists do have a tendency to be conservative in their estimations.

                    • dukeofurl

                      Yes you are right , the SPM for WG1 is written by scientists.

                      I was thinking of the WG I – AR5 Government Review of Final Draft SPM.

                      Its truly byzantine. I dont think its worth even bothering with as we both agree its not ‘improved by the politicians’

              • Bill

                World Bank, Price Waterhouse Cooper, International Energy Agency…and any other report that doesn’t imbed carbon capture and storage or use non – empirical emission rates etc.

                All say 4 by 50 or thereabouts.

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  if dukeofurl is under 35, he’s very likely to live to see the full extent of the disruption we face come 2050-2060.

                  • dukeofurl

                    Ill trust the experts on this one.

                    Im sure the ship of fools has plenty of room for you.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      You’ll trust the “experts”! LOL You might as well trust the officers on the Titanic.

                      Explain to me, mate, the cause for your certainty and faith. For starters, how many cases of real life global AGW have your vaunted “experts” actually seen, recorded, lived through and analysed? And I don’t mean simulated on a computer screen, I mean actual.

                      But I already know the answer to that. It rhymes with “hero.”

                      That’s why I carefully limit my trust in the “experts” and keep my brain engaged and ready for dissensus.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  The World Bank cites the Postdam Institute for Climate Impact Research as predicting 2° by 2050 and 4° by 2100.

                  PwC say 4-6° by 2100.

                  • dukeofurl

                    PwC is just using IPCC which is good.

                    Thanks for that, its good to have science based numbers back.

                    • Bill

                      …its good to have science based numbers back

                      You’re aware that the IPCC bases its numbers on the unscientific assumption that carbon capture and storage will actually work, be developed and then rolled out on a massive scale in a very short time scale?

                      That one assumption bumps their predictions on temperature rises downwards but still doesn’t avoid rises in excess of 2 degrees C while their big Dr Seuss machines get up to speed on sucking carbon out of the air.

                      All very scientific.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Hi dukeofurl, does the IPCC numbers really consider carbon capture and storage as a given in its scenarios?

                      Is that really a “scientific” assumption to make?

          • maui 11.2.2.1.3

            Surely by the time 2030 rolls around we would have increased our targets though, we wouldn’t be that stupid to just continue in the same vein as we are now…

    • Tracey 11.3

      our less than 1% contribution to the new Asian Bank won’t make much of a difference either but your pals in Government still did it.

  12. Sorry me again
    Bill and Tu
    Reducing emissions now to ‘save humanity’ is pointless, like I’ve tried to explain above.
    The environment is @ 400 ppm for the next 1,000 years at the least.
    Once the true affects of 400 ppm are in place, trees will stop growing, the oceans will be toxic emitters of GHGs. I would guess the amount of carbon and methane that is going to come out of the fast thawing tundra, the earth might not see sub 400 for millions of years.
    The planet has NEVER been @ 400 ppm with another god knows??? 6 – 20 times more carbon about to come out of the worlds methane stores?
    Its a bit like an ant and an elephant.
    Watch the links I posted above, surly some free information is worth watching, or as like most humans (and politicians X 10 ) you have a built in ‘flight’ mechanism, that keeps you away, or unable to absorb facts that run contra to your ‘beliefs’ ?
    800 methane life times in the next 10? EXCEPT IT WILL NOT DIE
    ho hum

    • Bill 12.1

      Robert, I know it’s a punt, but since there are poorly understood dynamics in such a complex system or set of systems, it’s just possible that…

      yeah. a punt.

    • dukeofurl 12.2

      When did trees stop being able to grow by CO2 above 400 ppm ?

      Is that with less rainfall the forests thin and replaced by grassland, or is that global rainforest will expand with more rain ?

      • Robert Atack 12.2.1

        Part One: Large Igneous Provinces and their global effects
        Introduction http://www.skepticalscience.com/pollution-part-1.html
        http://www.skepticalscience.com/pollution-part-2.html
        Well first they went extinct, which kind of stunts any species growth 😉
        Somewhere in the above article he mentions the coal cycle being interrupted for 10 million years, I’m guessing that is because there were no trees, this is based on rocks 250 million years old.?

        • dukeofurl 12.2.1.1

          Complete rubbish.

          Concentrations to produce suffocation for people / animals( as mentioned in your link) are 7-10%, that is 70,000-100,000 ppm

          meanwhile plants can 50% faster growth in steady state conditions, with concentrations of 1000ppm.

          Then there is SO2, human emissions peaked at 130 mill tons and are declining, Siberian traps were possibly over 6300 billion tons of SO2. thats right it was 50 million times more than human emissions

          As I thought its all complete rubbish.

          Has nothing absolutely nothing to do with steady CO2 increases that we are facing.

          If you guys were sitting level 6 Science at high school it would be FAIL.

          http://nzcurriculum.tki.org.nz/The-New-Zealand-Curriculum/Learning-areas/Science/Achievement-objectives

          • Robert Atack 12.2.1.1.1

            Fine, so what was the CO2 reading at the end of the Permian?
            The time some say 96% of life went extinct?
            Or as this says ?
            With more than 90% of all marine species and 75% of land species wiped out, the end Permian mass extinction was the worst biosphere crisis in the last 600 million years. The extinction was global in reach: almost all animals and plants in almost all environmental settings were affected. An idea of the severity can be visualized by considering that the time afterwards was marked by the beginning of a coal gap lasting for ten million years: coal-forming ecosystems – i.e. forests – simply did not exist for that time.
            400 ppm is just the beginning, the planet could see 500ppm? 1,000 + ?
            The Amazon forest (not the book shop) has emitted more CO2 than the US in one year, 2005 – 10 ish??) not sure how it is going at the moment?

            I’ve been reading for a while how we have pushed the environment further and faster, by up to 10,000 times ??? But to air on the side of caution, and ‘believability’ lets say we have done it 100 times as fast? we are still facing a massive amount of methane and carbon, from the Siberian traps……… coincidentally !!
            Alaska is +10C above monthly average at the moment? ‘The traps’ have been up to something like 25C currently 12 – 20 C
            How much longer can the ice cork hold?
            But why would you listen to me? The links above are maybe more qualified?
            Though some slip into happy chapter mode.

            • dukeofurl 12.2.1.1.1.1

              Interesting stuff, nothing wrong with going off tangent but we talking about AGW levels of CO2.
              800ppm is a whole different scenario than 70,000 ppm

              • Colonial Rawshark

                It amazes me that you continue to calmly talk as if our world is in charted territory. As Atack points out: we very clearly are not. Wake up.

      • Robert Atack 12.2.2

        http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/gcb.12938/abstract
        Think Progress,
        14 June, 2015

        In contrast to a popular conservative argument, a new study has found that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide isn’t necessarily a boon to plant growth — instead, it causes plants to have a more difficult time absorbing nitrogen, a nutrient critical to plant growth and health.

        And another one for ya
        http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2015/noaa-analysis-journal-science-no-slowdown-in-global-warming-in-recent-years.html

        A major new study from NOAA finds more evidence that we may be witnessing the start of the long-awaited jump in global temperatures. As I reported in April, many recent studies have found that we are about to enter an era of even more rapid global warming.

        Indeed, one March study, “Near-term acceleration in the rate of temperature change,” warns the speed-up is imminent — with Arctic warming rising a stunning 1°F per decade by the 2020s.

        The new study in Science from a team of NOAA scientists, “finds that the rate of global warming during the last 15 years has been as fast as or faster than that seen during the latter half of the 20th Century,” as NOAA explains.

        • dukeofurl 12.2.2.1

          Thats fine but your claim rising CO2 will kill the trees is unsupported. Lets not go there then.

          Regarding the eCO2 atmosphere-
          “experiments in grassland, cropland and forest ecosystems and found that: (i) in all three ecosystem types, this relationship was positive, linear and strong”

          The “ecosystems they studied were N limited”. Its very new research and could show that without access to N some plant growth wont roar away.

          The full article is behind a wall, but would be interesting to read it entirely

  13. Molly 13

    A consideration for the MetService perhaps:
    Cyclone Simon Bridges.

  14. ian 14

    I was driving through breaker bay yesterday enjoying the breeze through the open window in the rental car and got a wave over me and the little corolla. 5 meter swells with the big ones 50 % bigger are pretty awesome. Has happened regularly over recorded history.

  15. Climate scientists raise alarm on melting of carbon-bearing permafrost
    http://www.interaksyon.com/article/112188/climate-scientists-raise-alarm-on-melting-of-carbon-bearing-permafrost

    There may be 1,500 billion tonnes of carbon locked away in permafrost — perennially frozen ground covering about a quarter of exposed land in the Northern Hemisphere,

    “While there is some uncertainty, we know that permafrost carbon losses will be substantial, they will be irreversible,”

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Climate Change: Vote for the climate
    Local body voting papers went in the post on Friday, and should be arriving over the course of this week (mine arrived today). And if you care about climate change, I urge you to vote. While local government seems irrelevant and out of touch (like a whine of old white ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    10 hours ago
  • Climate Change: We must do more
    Like many people, my submission on the Zero Carbon Bill urged more ambitious targets. And if the select committee was in any doubt, they're needed:An assessment backed by the world’s major climate science bodies has found commitments to cut greenhouse gas emissions must be at least tripled and increased by ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    13 hours ago
  • Cracking down on mining
    NZ Energy and Environment Business Week reports (in Scoop) that the government is finally moving on reforming the Crown Minerals Act, including banning mining on conservation land and repealing the hated Anadarko Amendment:The Government is planning to change the Crown Minerals Act’s purpose from “promoting” mining in light of changing ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    13 hours ago
  • Fluoridation – A new fight against scientific misinformation
    Anti-fluoride campaigners think a new Canadian fluoride IQ study is the best thing since sliced bread but the scientific critiques warn they are wrong. Photo Illustration by The Daily Beast/Getty The new Canadian ...
    14 hours ago
  • GM Strikers Are Waging a Battle on Two Fronts
    Reprinted from Jacobinmag by Jane Slaughter and Chris Brooks Almost 50,000 UAW workers are on strike against GM and a two-tier labor system that undermines worker solidarity. But members may need to wage a battle on two fronts — against the company, but also against their own union leadership. Forty-nine ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 day ago
  • Who Will Be Fed Next To The Hungry Gods Of Politics?
    Before Jacingrant There Was Gracinda: Grant Robertson and his 2014 running mate, Jacinda Ardern. She stood at his side: loyal and obliging, as she had ever been. The media dubbed this duo “Gracinda” – a sort of political “Brangelina”. The other young people who worked alongside Robertson were also ambitious ...
    2 days ago
  • Simon Bridges: the 15 March Christchurch massacre and winning at any cost
    . . Just when you thought Simon Bridges couldn’t sink any lower – he has. After the March 15th  Christchurch terror attack, the (current) Leader of the National Party issued strong committments to support urgently needed gun law reform; “We will be ready and prepared to be constructive and to ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Only the least intelligent students, with bad parents, will attend the nonsense climate strike
    We all know that bad parents simply don’t care about their children’s education. Most truants have loser parents, and grow up to be involved with crime, or in low paid employment usually like their parents. The nonsense so-called “climate strike” coming up will be attended mostly by the least intelligent ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    3 days ago
  • Professional Internet Trolls being used to push manmade climate change lies
    Is the terrorist Organisation Greenpeace and the loony Green parties around the World hiring professional internet trolls? I have noticed a trend lately where if you post research, news articles or even comments that show the manmade climate change scam to be just that, you are immediately attacked, often within ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: Strike!
    Today is the first day of the global climate strike. Led by schoolkids, people all around the world are going to protest to demand action on climate change. New Zealand isn't doing it till next Friday (join us!), but if you want to get active early, there's plenty to do ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: Squandering our opportunity?
    The Herald has a story today about the 400 MW of wind power currently under construction. Good news, right? Except that none of it is being driven by policy (instead, its about replacing Contact Energy's Taranaki Combined Cycle gas-fired power plant, due to shut down in 2022), and most of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Protect The King!
    To Protect and Serve: When the Prime Minister finds herself enmeshed in the coils of a full-blown political scandal, her colleagues and party comrades have only one priority: to release her as swiftly – and with as little lasting injury – as possible. Is this what Jacinda Ardern’s colleagues and ...
    4 days ago
  • The rot at the top.
    When military leaders cover up and lie to elected civilian authorities, the foundation of democratic civil-military relations is undermined because it is those authorities who are entrusted to hold the military accountable to the public that they mutually serve. But this is only true if civilian political authorities take their ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Challenging the voting age in court
    The Make It 16 campaign to lower the voting age is launching this afternoon, and they have already announced plans to challenge the law in court:The campaign, named "Make it 16" will launch at Parliament on Friday, with plans to take their case to the High Court, testing the rights ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Israel’s elections herald a long siesta
    by Daphna Whitmore The long years of Netanyahu’s reign are drawing to an end. For years he has epitomized reactionary zionism as he oversaw hundreds of thousands of Jewish settlers seize land in the West Bank. There are now 700,000 settlers, putting an end to the myth that Israel was ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Petrol companies promise prices will come back down once peace is restored to the Middle East
    BP, Z and Mobil all insist that petrol price hikes are temporary, “in a very literal sense.” The nation’s major petrol providers are trying to allay customer fears over prices, promising that they’ll move to lower them again “immediately” when the Middle East is returned to its formerly peaceful state. ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    4 days ago
  • All Blacks unveil boat for Rugby World Cup 2019
    South African coach Rassie Erasmus says he has no idea what they’re going to do about the boat. In a highly anticipated press conference this afternoon, All Blacks coach Steve Hansen has finally unveiled the team’s boat for its Rugby World Cup 2019 campaign. In a press conference that went ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    4 days ago
  • An increasingly shoddy coverup
    The Operation Burnham inquiry continued to question senior NZDF staff today, and their shoddy coverup over their knowledge of civilian casualties continue to fall apart. If you recall, first, we were asked to believe that it was all a series of "mistakes and errors": a senior officer with multiple degrees ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • If we are to avoid making the earth uninhabitable, we need to rapidly decarbonise our civilisation, and cut emissions to zero as quickly as possible. This seems like an impossible task, but its not. Pushing hard on a few technologies and trends will let us halve emissions in a decade:Greenhouse ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • A further attack on transparency
    The Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill (No 2) had part of its committee stage yesterday. its a generally tedious bill about the nitty-gritty of local government reorganisation. But it includes a clause making the Local Government Commission subject to the Ombudsmen Act, and hence the OIA. Great! Except of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Ihumātao and Treaty settlements
    Yesterday Ihumātao's mana whenua reached a consensus that they would like their land back, and asked the government to negotiate with Fletcher's for its return. The government's response? Try and undermine that consensus, while talking about how doing anything would undermine existing Treaty settlements. The first is just more bad ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Protecting our history
    Its Suffrage Day, the 126th anniversary of women winning the right to vote (but not stand in elections) in New Zealand. And to celebrate, the government has bought Kate Sheppard's house in Christchurch:The government has bought Kate Sheppard's former home in Christchurch for more than $4 million. The Ilam villa ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Climate Change: Ostracising the coal-burners
    The UN climate summit is happening in new York next week, and unlike previous years, coal-burners and denier-states are not being invited to speak:Leading economies such as Japan and Australia will not be invited to speak at next week’s crunch UN climate change summit, as their continued support for coal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Jojo Tamihere Salutes Herr Goff.
    Get Back Jojo! The elation in Mayor Phil Goff’s camp may be easily imagined as they watched social media light up in indignation at challenger John Tamihere’s "Sieg Heil to that" quip. Just when JT’s notoriously right-wing, sexist and homophobic stains were beginning to fade back into his ‘colourful’ past, ...
    5 days ago
  • Hard News: A fun but flawed weed documentary
    Patrick Gower is good value when he's high. Not that I've ever, you know, got stoned with him. But in the second part of his documentary Patrick Gower on Weed, he does what you'd expect in a modern weed documentary and immerses himself – first with a doctor, then a ...
    5 days ago
  • Candidate Survey: Western Bay of Plenty – Local Body Elections 2019
    We surveyed candidates on their attitudes to issues facing the Western Bay Region, find out what they think: “Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    5 days ago
  • Project Nettie calls on scientists to defend biology
    Please spread widely, and sign, to support science and rationalism over the new irrationalism sweeping universities and institutions.  PROJECT NETTIE Sexual reproduction, the generation of offspring by fusion of genetic material from two different individuals, evolved over 1 billion years ago. It is the reproductive strategy of all higher animals ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • I’m glad I don’t live in Auckland
    Just when I was thinking that Palmerston North's mayoral race (which includes a convicted child molester / public wanker and a convicted child beater) was the worst in the country, Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere opened his mouth:Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere is being slammed for using the words "sieg ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Index of Power Update, 2018-19: China #2
    We reprint below an article from the excellent website the Economics of Imperialism by Tony Norfield This is an update of the statistics for my Index of Power, using data for 2018-19 and discussing what a country’s ranking reflects. The major change is that China’s rank has shifted up and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: A history lesson
    Why is New Zealand climate change policy so crap? The Herald this morning has a long article on the twists and turns of climate change policy in New Zealand [paywalled / depaywall script], which shows where we've been. The short version is that the government first began worrying about this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What the All Blacks Mean to Us
    The All Blacks have been, for more than a century, arguably the most successful International sports team in the world. But they are more than that; even for those Kiwis who are immune to the charms of rugby (and there are more than a few), the All Blacks are ambassadors ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    6 days ago
  • No one is born into the wrong body
    A short and incredibly powerful speech from a young lesbian woman. No one is born in the wrong body. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 days ago
  • Contempt
    Back in June, the UK Court of Appeal ruled that that country's continued arms sales to Saudi Arabia were unlawful. So you'd expect that the UK government stopped approving them, right?Of course not:The government has apologised for breaching a court ruling against the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Covering up the cover-up
    Yesterday NZDF officials were put on the stand about the lies they had told over Operation Burnham, making implausible claims that it was all a big mistake. But along the way, we learned they had already been put on the spot about it by a previous Defence Minister, who had ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Not as important as they think they are
    Farmers have been whining a lot lately, about the methane targets in the Zero Carbon Bill, about Canterbury's proposed nitrogen limits, and about the government's new proposals to stop them from shitting in our lakes and rivers. These policies are "throwing farmers under the tractor", they will force farmers off ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Behind Every Good Woman Should Stand – Another Good Woman.
    Alone, Alone, All, All, Alone: To argue that the Prime Minister is the victim of her advisers’ failure to keep her informed may offer Jacinda some measure of exoneration – but only at the cost of casting her as a hopeless political ingénue. A star-dusted muppet, whose only purpose is to ...
    7 days ago
  • Poor quality, poorly educated kiddie ‘Journalists’ spreading fake news
    In times of hysteria about the “World coming to an end” and “rising sea levels” so-called ‘Journalists’ who can barely spell words longer than four letters are having a ball! Though the majority of the Public have worked out that manmade climate change is nothing short of pseudo-science, and the ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    7 days ago
  • Chris Trotter on the BFD
    I don't want to give pblicity to certain parts of the internet that are better left to fester in their own irrelevance (I know, a bit like this place) but the listing of Chris Trotter as a 'author' on Cameron Slater's spinoff website, the BFD requires some explanation.Now, I don't ...
    1 week ago
  • Sex is not a spectrum
    The text below is a Twitter thread by Heather Heying that explains the essence of sexual reproduction and it long evolutionary history. She is an evolutionary biologist and a “professor-in-exile” after she and her husband, Bret Weinstein, stood up to supporters of an enforced “Day of Absence” for white staff and teachers ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Trees, aviation, and offsets
    With crunch time for new Zealand climate policy approaching, most of the New Zealand media have got on board with a global reporting effort to cover the issue. There's one strand of stories today about polling and what it shows about changing public attitudes to the crisis, but the strand ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Pissing-Off The Israelis Is A High-Risk Strategy.
    Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...
    1 week ago
  • Something to go to in Wellington
    Make It 16, the youth-led campaign to lower New Zealand's voting age, is holding an official campaign launch at Parliament this Friday from 16:30. If you'd like to attend, you can register using EventBrite here. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A founding member responds to Peace Action Wellington
    by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above  the beaches.  In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • “Mistakes and errors”
    Current and former NZDF top brass are being publicly grilled this week by the hit and run inquiry over their public responses to allegations of civilian casualties. Previously, they've claimed there were no casualties, a position which led them to lie to Ministers and to the public. Now, they're saying ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • “Homosexuality is same-sex attraction and relationships, not heterosexuals with delusions of gende...
    by Rafael D. Quiles (gender-critical gay man from Puerto Rico) The writing on the wall is right in people’s faces and people just don’t see it or don’t want to. What could actually possess a heterosexual male to want to feminize himself and claim that he is a lesbian? Because ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Trump: “Where’s my favourite dictator?”
    From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...
    1 week ago
  • Magdalen Burns, 1983-2019, fighter for women’s liberation
    by the Redline blog collective At Redline we are very saddened to hear of the death of Magdalen Burns who passed away on the morning of Friday, September 13 (British time). Magdalen was a great fighter for the rights of women in general and lesbian women in particular, a defender ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Parliament and the Executive
    The Brexit issue has certainly brought with it a series of apparently difficult constitutional issues, many of them concerning the respective roles of the executive and parliament. Most of them arise because of the unwillingness of MPs, despite their professions to the contrary, to be bound by a constitutional rarity ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • The Abigail Article; Martyn Bradbury’s Article, and My Response
    . . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • Police will have to wear silly Buckingham Palace hats from now on, says Police Minister
    Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • A sensible crackdown
    The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • California bans private prisons
    Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Why PPPs are a bad idea
    When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Movement That No Longer Moves.
    Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • NZ ‘left’ politically embracing extreme postmodernism
    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago

No feed items found.