web analytics

It’s now or never – Te Ururoa

Written By: - Date published: 11:40 am, September 7th, 2010 - 33 comments
Categories: foreshore and seabed, maori party - Tags:

It’s a little disturbing to hear Te Ururoa Flavell saying that the Maori Party isn’t really satisfied with National’s new foreshore and seabed bill but will vote for it for now. He seems to think that there will be an opportunity to re-negotiate a new deal in the future. He’s dreaming.

Every party save ACT will vote for this law – Labour says its just their bill with slight alterations and different names, so they have no problems with it except that it’s a waste of Parliament’s time.

So, how, precisely, does the Maori Party imagine the issue will get back on the agenda? Both major parties have every incentive to consider the issue closed. With the Maori Party supporting the law, it will be seen as a full and final settlement.

Either you stand your ground for what you want now, Te Ururoa, or you accept what’s on the table now and let the issue go.

PS. You’ve got to love how National has renamed its foreshore and seabed bill the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill. They’re hoping the name change will mean the rednecks won’t know what’s going on. Well, I guess the same trick worked on the Maori Party.

PPS. What’s up with this Bill being tabled when both Maori Party co-leaders are out of the country? Doesn’t exactly suggest close coordination between Chris Finlayson, Gerry Brownlee, and the co-leaders.

33 comments on “It’s now or never – Te Ururoa ”

  1. just saying 1

    Quote: “So, how, precisely, does the Maori Party imagine the issue will get back on the agenda?”

    In the medium term, as a condition of any future coalition deal I imagine. The matter may be “closed” but if the MP hold the balance of power I imagine some small concessions could be made.

    Maori have made amazing, if gradual, progress on their concerns over time. More than I’m sure most would have predicted. I believe they will continue to do so.

  2. Both major parties have every incentive to consider the issue closed.

    Indeed they do. But what matters is whether Maori consider the matter closed. And that will only happen when they see a fair deal. Until then, they’ll keep raising it, and National and Labour will be forced to keep confronting it, whether they want to or not.

    • Blighty 2.1

      how will the issue get any air time? Both major parties will just say ‘but you voted for this law, you can’t expect us to go through all that again for you now’.

      It only came up this term becaue the Nats used it to wedge the MP from Labour. The Nats will have no incentive to turn over their own law in the future and neither will Labour

      • Tigger 2.1.1

        How do MP voters feel about this? How many chances will they give this lot to achieve their goals before they start waking up and voting Green?

      • Idiot/Savant 2.1.2

        how will the issue get any air time? Both major parties will just say ‘but you voted for this law, you can’t expect us to go through all that again for you now’.

        With the Maori party expected to hold the balance of power in the long term and having a voter base insulated from everyone else’s, I think they can demand the major parties to “go through” whatever they want.

        As for “you voted for it”, there’s nothing wrong with taking what you can get and then asking for more. That’s how progress happens. The fact that people supported the half-way house of civil unions does not forbid them from supporting same-sex marriage when the day comes.

    • Lew 2.2

      What you say is strictly true, I/S, but by backing this they catastrophically weaken their bargaining position on this topic such that any future progress toward justice might need to be undertaken by an agency other than the Māori party. And we can be damned sure it won’t be the Nats or Labour.

      They weaken their brand and risk alienating their base, and (much more importantly) they cement the age-old notion that Māori are a laughing-stock — political amateurs able to be bought off with baubles and hatchets. In reality, nothing could be further from the truth, but that perception exists and needs to be put to bed once and for all. This isn’t the way to do so.


      • Maynard J 2.2.1

        You say that they are not amateurs to be bought off with baubles and hatchets, but the very essence of this post is that’s what is happening, and you seemingly agree with that point.

        Of course, the Maori party are not Maori as a whole, but they’re the most visible politcal arm short of tama iti’s buttocks…

        • Lew

          The point is that this — and the initial post-settlement ‘sales’ of land, usually by people not legitimately empowered to sell it, who genuinely had no clue what they were in for — isn’t the whole story. In the rare cases where they’ve enjoyed something approaching parity in terms of negotiative power, Māori have historically done very well indeed. This is why the FSA repeal is such a crucial opportunity.


      • Richard 2.2.2

        Sure, the individuals associated with the Maori Party might suffer some credibility problems with accepting this deal, but that has nothing to do with Maori in general.

        Think of this as like the history of the Irish Republican movement. Sure the British government offered various “full and final” settlements and deals on the subject of Irish self-determination. Some were accepted, and some weren’t. However, until the Irish got a deal that they liked the issue didn’t go away. It might die down for a few years (or a generation or so), but until the Irish got something just the issue wouldn’t go away.

        Same thing applies here. The government can crow all that they like that a particular solution is “full and final”; but until such time as the majority of Maori believe that justice has been done there will always be another negotiation. And even if the majority of Maori now believe that the settlement is “just”, that doesn’t mean that they (or their descendants) cannot have a re-think in later years.

        These negotiations are part of a much longer game than the current government is prepared to think about.

  3. toad 3

    Every party save ACT will vote for this law…

    I don’t think so, Eddie:

    Mrs Turei said she was very disappointed that the Maori Party would support this unfair law.

    “Repealing the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004 was a founding principle of the Maori Party, and yet they have ended up supporting a bill which essentially repeats the same injustices.

    “I sympathise with the Maori Party who have found themselves backed into a corner on this issue, but their commitment should be to their people first and foremost and I am incredibly disappointed that they have chosen to support this bill.”

  4. Lanthanide 4

    “Labour says its just their bill with slight alterations and different names, so they have no problems with it except that it’s a waste of Parliament’s time”

    Actually they’re concerned that it appears to be exactly the same as their existing law, BUT that the Maori Party seem to somehow think it is different.

  5. Actually they’re concerned that it appears to be exactly the same as their existing law, BUT that the Maori Party seem to somehow think it is different.

    Tone and consent are everything. Despite the F&S Act being pretty much what we would have got if the government had sat down and negotiated, it was bad because those negotiations didn’t happen; it was imposed on Maori. The new bill is almost exactly the same (give or take a bit here and there), but it has been developed in consultation with Maori, after an inquiry condemned the original. Iwi seem happy with it, and the Maori Party think its largely OK. And that makes all the difference in the world.

    • Blighty 5.1

      The MP doesn’t think it’s OK, they just have to vote for it or admit they’ve been screwed over.

      Iwi were moving ahead with the old law anyway and are concerned about the deadlines this one introduces.

      “Tone and consent are everything. ” – in other words, style trumps substance.

      • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1

        “style trumps substance.”

        I think it’s more like ‘process is substantive’

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox 5.2

      So intent triumphs over content? Doesn’t that sound like an after the event rationalisation to you?

  6. The MP doesn’t think it’s OK, they just have to vote for it or admit they’ve been screwed over.

    And they’ll take whatever gains they can get, and come back for more later.

    “Tone and consent are everything. ” – in other words, style trumps substance.

    Laws are like sausages etc.

  7. toad 7

    It will be interesting to see whether Hone Harawira votes for it. I understand he is very unhappy with it.

  8. gobsmacked 8

    Election result:

    National plus ACT: 61

    Labour plus Greens: 57

    Maori Party: 5

    Hey presto! It’s back on the table.

    • Ron 8.1

      The problem there , Gob, is that Labour can’t make any promises about repealing the law in order to make a relationship with the MP.
      It seems to me that if the Left try to be principled about this, the shit hits the racist fan. If the Right pay lip service to the priniciples they’re statesmanlike and effective at working in parnership.

      The MP sold their souls over this issue – it’s the one issue they said was a line in the sand. It turns out power is more importanmt to them than principle. They’ll get away with it because the media won’t hound them about it. If they stand up and say – “we’re going with Labour bcause the Tories screwed us” it will become the same hot potatoe that led to the law in the fist place.

      I think taiana and pita will spin this to their voters as a small price to pay for the “advances ” they’ve made and they’ll survive. Pisses me off.

    • Blighty 8.2

      like Ron says.

      If either major party agreed to yet another revision of the F&S law, one which grants much stronger rights for iwi, they would be making themselves a one-term government.

      Labour would be inviting a racist backlash and National will simply never give the MP what it wants and won’t want to go through this issue twice in two terms for fear of stoking a new right party in the gap soon to be left by ACT.

      the MP can demand what it wants but it needs one of the majors to be willing to deal.

      • Lanthanide 8.2.1

        What if, instead of gob’s numbers, the MP had 10 seats? I think that might change things a little.

        • Bright Red

          what if they got 30?

          yeah, numbers give you power but while the MP is a minor party it can’t expect to get the F&S back on the agenda once it has voted for a settlement.

          • ron

            “…but while the MP is a minor party it can’t expect to get the F&S back on the agenda once it has voted for a settlement.”
            ….and who’s gonna vote for the pricks now? certainly not the liberal left who supported them last time. A Brown Tory party we don’t need.

            • Lew

              The ‘liberal left’, who are predominantly white middle-class educated folk, didn’t vote for them in either of the previous elections. They were elected by voters on the Māori roll who abandoned Labour because of the FSA.


  9. ron 9

    well some of the liberal left voted for them – and won’t asgain I shouldn’t think. Yes we know that their voter base was driven bt anger over the FSA. My point is that in order to styick iot to labopur the MP leadership went with the Tories, supported an appalling right wing agenda and got nothing. So – will anybody vote for them again?

    • Lew 9.1

      Well, no. Very few of the ‘liberal left’ are on the Māori roll. Very few people outside the Māori roll voted for them (since doing so was a waste of a vote).

      The final question is a good one, though — yet to be seen. And the answer is, it depends whether the māori party’s much-vaunted consultation and community engagement systems, by which they keep in touch with their support base, are genuine and transparent, or whether they’re a sham. If they’re actually doing what the flaxroots — even grudgingly — want here (as the endorsement of the ILG indicates they are), then they should be fine. If they’re not, there should be hell to pay. At present there’s evidence both ways.


  10. KJT 10

    All foreshore and seabed should be in public ownership. This could be done over time with compensation for anyone who can prove ownership rights in court. Some could be Grandfathered for the life of the current owner.
    More of a worry than customary ownership are the people who have fee simple title to foreshore and/or seabed such as port companies, who if Hide gets his way, will be sold ASAP.


  11. John Laurie 11

    All foreshore and seabed should be in public ownership. In the common sense meaning of the words there’s not a seabed or foreshore in the country where local hapus have maintained exclusive possession – how could there be when the whole country has believed for 100 years that beaches belonged to everyone. Who trusts our Courts to come to the right decision here, though? All New Zealanders includes an increasing proportion of Maori, who have benefited and continue to benefit from Crown-owned reserves as well as revenues going to the Crown. Foreshores were essential transport corridors when the Crown took them over. What each small local group lost in foreshores on their doorstep they gained in access to the rest of the country. The Labour Party should oppose this legislation. Labour used to believe in public ownership – what’s happened to them?

    • Lew 11.1

      Well, no. ‘Exclusive’ never meant nobody else got to use it — just meant nobody else had a claim to its possession. Customary usage by Māori historically included very broad and generous provisions for common usage, but that didn’t diminish possession.


  12. John Laurie 12

    Broad and generous provisions for common usage by the next door hapu Lew? The one down the road? Half the time there was a state of war between them. Why was the Auckland isthmus and the whole North Shore deserted for nearly 20 years from 1821 to 1839? This is why the Government assumed ownership of the foreshores and seabeds – to provide access for everyone along these transport routes – part of the Pax Britannica. Wouldn’t New Zealand be another Papua New Guinea or Ethiopia today without its immigrant majority?

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Project protects jobs and nature
    A Waitomo-based Jobs for Nature project will keep up to ten people employed in the village as the tourism sector recovers post Covid-19 Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “This $500,000 project will save ten local jobs by deploying workers from Discover Waitomo into nature-based jobs. They will be undertaking local ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Minister Shaw speaks with U.S. Presidential Envoy John Kerry
    Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw spoke yesterday with President Biden’s Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry. “I was delighted to have the opportunity to speak with Mr. Kerry this morning about the urgency with which our governments must confront the climate emergency. I am grateful to him and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Minister of Foreign Affairs makes three diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Affairs Minister Hon Nanaia Mahuta today announced three diplomatic appointments: Alana Hudson as Ambassador to Poland John Riley as Consul-General to Hong Kong Stephen Wong as Consul-General to Shanghai   Poland “New Zealand’s relationship with Poland is built on enduring personal, economic and historical connections. Poland is also an important ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Major redevelopment of Wainuiomata High School underway
    Work begins today at Wainuiomata High School to ensure buildings and teaching spaces are fit for purpose, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. The Minister joined principal Janette Melrose and board chair Lynda Koia to kick off demolition for the project, which is worth close to $40 million, as the site ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New expert group appointed to advise Government on Oranga Tamariki
    A skilled and experienced group of people have been named as the newly established Oranga Tamariki Ministerial Advisory Board by Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis today. The Board will provide independent advice and assurance to the Minister for Children across three key areas of Oranga Tamariki: relationships with families, whānau, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • COVID-19 vaccine slated for possible approval next week
    The green light for New Zealand’s first COVID-19 vaccine could be granted in just over a week, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said today. “We’re making swift progress towards vaccinating New Zealanders against the virus, but we’re also absolutely committed to ensuring the vaccines are safe and effective,” Jacinda Ardern said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New ACC Board members announced.
    The Minister for ACC is pleased to announce the appointment of three new members to join the Board of ACC on 1 February 2021. “All three bring diverse skills and experience to provide strong governance oversight to lead the direction of ACC” said Hon Carmel Sepuloni. Bella Takiari-Brame from Hamilton ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Economic boost for Southland marae
    The Government is investing $9 million to upgrade a significant community facility in Invercargill, creating economic stimulus and jobs, Infrastructure Minister Grant Robertson and Te Tai Tonga MP Rino Tirikatene have announced.  The grant for Waihōpai Rūnaka Inc to make improvements to Murihiku Marae comes from the $3 billion set ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Celebrating the Entry Into Force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons
    [Opening comments, welcome and thank you to Auckland University etc] It is a great pleasure to be here this afternoon to celebrate such an historic occasion - the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This is a moment many feared would never come, but ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Supporting disabled people to stay connected
    The Government is providing $3 million in one-off seed funding to help disabled people around New Zealand stay connected and access support in their communities, Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni announced today. The funding will allow disability service providers to develop digital and community-based solutions over the next two ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Voluntary saliva testing offered to quarantine workers from Monday
    Border workers in quarantine facilities will be offered voluntary daily COVID-19 saliva tests in addition to their regular weekly testing, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. This additional option will be rolled out at the Jet Park Quarantine facility in Auckland starting on Monday 25 January, and then to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Next steps in firearms buy-back
    The next steps in the Government’s ambitious firearms reform programme to include a three-month buy-back have been announced by Police Minister Poto Williams today.  “The last buy-back and amnesty was unprecedented for New Zealand and was successful in collecting 60,297 firearms, modifying a further 5,630 firearms, and collecting 299,837 prohibited ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Jobs for Nature projects target iconic ecosystems
    Upscaling work already underway to restore two iconic ecosystems will deliver jobs and a lasting legacy, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says.  “The Jobs for Nature programme provides $1.25 billion over four years to offer employment opportunities for people whose livelihoods have been impacted by the COVID-19 recession. “Two new projects ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New Public Housing Plan announced
    The Government has released its Public Housing Plan 2021-2024 which outlines the intention of where 8,000 additional public and transitional housing places announced in Budget 2020, will go. “The Government is committed to continuing its public house build programme at pace and scale. The extra 8,000 homes – 6000 public ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister congratulates President Joe Biden on his inauguration
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated President Joe Biden on his inauguration as the 46th President of the United States of America. “I look forward to building a close relationship with President Biden and working with him on issues that matter to both our countries,” Jacinda Ardern said. “New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Jobs for Nature funding will create training and employment opportunities
    A major investment to tackle wilding pines in Mt Richmond will create jobs and help protect the area’s unique ecosystems, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor says. The Mt Richmond Forest Park has unique ecosystems developed on mineral-rich geology, including taonga plant species found nowhere else in the country. “These special plant ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pre-departure testing extended to all passengers to New Zealand
    To further protect New Zealand from COVID-19, the Government is extending pre-departure testing to all passengers to New Zealand except from Australia, Antarctica and most Pacific Islands, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The change will come into force for all flights arriving in New Zealand after 11:59pm (NZT) on Monday ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Bay Cadets learn skills to protect environment
    Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Cook Islanders to resume travel to New Zealand
    The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Supporting communities and landowners to grow employment opportunities
    Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Border exception for some returning international tertiary students
    The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Tiwai deal gives time for managed transition
    Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New member for APEC Business Advisory Council
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Govt’s careful economic management recognised
    The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Additional actions to keep COVID-19 out of NZ
    The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 19 projects will clean up and protect waterways
    $36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago