- Date published:
8:41 am, October 8th, 2014 - 194 comments
Categories: john key, police - Tags: cameron slater, matthew blomfield
On Tuesday, some police in Wellington raided Nicky Hager’s house and in the course of 10 hours five police grabbed and held as evidence all of the computers, documents, cameras and any device that might contain data. The purported reason for this was not to charge Nicky Hager, but an attempt to find evidence to point to ‘rawshark’, the hacker who broke into Cameron Slater’s technically poorly secured computer, and presumably to charge ‘rawshark’ with theft for the emails and other information that was passed to Nicky Hager and other journalists.
This happens a few months after Nicky Hager’s book comes out detailing the links between Cameron Slater and John Keys office for pursuing dirty politics against his opponents, and after Cameron Slater lays a complaint with the police in Auckland about the theft of the information.
Now contrast this with the police treatment of a very similar episode 2 years earlier. In 2012, Cameron Slater, a ‘journalist’ according to the High Court, starts writing a series of attack posts on businessman Matthew Blomfield. They are based on personal information stolen from a hard disk and documents owned by Matthew Blomfield. These objects have been passed to Cameron Slater by person(s) currently unknown, copied by Cameron Slater, and then used as the basis of his posts.
A complaint is laid with the police in Auckland in 2012 about the theft and misuse of this information, the hard disk and the documents. The police appear to fail to even attempt to find out who supplied the information to Cameron Slater. Matthew Blomfield facing a almost complete police indifference, starts a civil case of defamation against Cameron Slater which so far has almost exclusively focused on discovering who supplied Cameron Slater with that information.
What is different between the two cases? On the face of it – nothing.
Both involve journalists (albeit at the opposite ends of the quality spectrum of that profession) receiving information stolen from the owners of the information and used in publishing material detrimental to the owner of the information.
However one case gets the fullest attention of the police involving the expenditure more than 50 hours of police time just to bag all of the possible information as evidence. This evidence will presumably be pored over by computer forensics to find the person who broke into Cameron Slaters poorly secured systems.
The other case gets a few minimal phone calls to a few people and then the complaint getting flagged as being not worth the police pursuing.
The difference is that Cameron Slater is a well known tory arselicker of John Key and former Police Minister Judith Collins. The information was embarrassing to the both. John Key lost a very long-standing member of his office who ‘resigned’ after the election. John Key was forced to lose Judith Collins as a minister.
John Key also has a well established reputation using the police force as a weapon of intimidation. In 2011, during the teapot taping episode, his complaint to the police caused searches of a number of media organisations searching for an accidental recording that was embarrassing to John Key.
Nominally, the police are independent of the politicians of the day. The Police Act says so. However it appears that John Key has corrupted the police force to such an extent that this is more of a farce than reality.
Now I’ll bet that the police will probably start doing a few token gestures on the still outstanding Blomfield complaint just for PR reasons. But really their heart won’t be in it. They won’t have been told to intimidate John Key’s journalist friends, just the journalists John Key doesn’t like.
To help Nicky Hager get back his equipment and documents, there has been a fund established to go through the courts.
The reason is that when police grab ‘evidence’, they will typically hold it for periods of between 6 months and many years. One of the police’s favourite extra-legal punitive punishments against activists is to seize the computers, cameras, and anything else available (like video tapes of Coronation Street) and hold them as evidence for as long as possible.
Typically when computers are finally returned as obsolete devices, they come back laden with viruses and other malware. It appears that police use them to investigate porn sites after they turn off antiviral protection. At least this was my experience after looking at my activist niece’s computer on its return.
Click here for current details. In less than 15 hours after its establishment, it was already up to $14,645.
You have absolutely nailed it, LPrent. There are two tiers of justice in this country.
Diversion posts to follow shortly.
Surely there is some official recourse on the police over this. This is disgusting and there must be some way to shine a high profile light on this . No chance of a journalist taking this up is there.
Also, what are the chances of the lawyerly types and civil libertarians around the country getting together to reexamine the law so that the police can hold on to such material for a specified, reasonably limited time only for the purpose of being able to form a decision to run a court case against the individual?
Apologies for the long sentence. Gotta steo away and will be back soon.
wayne mapp is a law commissioner.
feel any better??
“John Key has corrupted the police force to such an extent that this is more of a farce than reality”.
Is there anything that John Key has not corrupted…?!
Sincere thanks for this post LPRENT.
According to Naomi Wolf the suspension of the rule of law i.e. the equal application of law on all citizens is the 10th and last step in the transition from an open and free to a closed and oppressive society. Controlling the press is number 8. If you apply her list of the 10 easy steps to fascism we’re already there!
+10 and thanks for the link to Naomi Wolf’s article.
And let’s not forget that three other journalists also have information from Slater’s computer given to them by Rawshark. Have the police raided them yet?
yup… And the “cos they are journalists” cry doesnt help since a judge said someone copying and pasting someone elses work and claiming it as their own is a journalist… Makes hager a journalist too… So that leaves public interest outweighing journo right to not divulge sources… The police think so… So why dont they think that about slater and raid his home and office two years ago…
Slane nails it,
“But please, don’t feel dissuaded from doing your journalistic duties”
very sad,but true.Thanks iprent.PS:I hope you can keep TS going,their are loads of support for your work here.Big up’s
Am I correct in thinking that anyone who has emailed Hager critising the police or a govt minister that the police will look at the information and that the police or the PMs watchers could cause problems for the sender?
What assurance has the PM given the country that any information on Hager’s computer will not end up on Slater’s blog?
The changes in the GCSB and SIS have leanings toward that which is seen in a police state. I am interested in finding out what the structure of the new security position which the PM is going to head, how it will function.
Anyone who donates tohis legal fund….
Police won’t have access to that.
I wasnt thinking about the police
“Am I correct in thinking that anyone who has emailed Hager critising the police or a govt minister that the police will look at the information and that the police or the PMs watchers could cause problems for the sender?”
Depends on what precautions Hager took.
Bear in mind too that the police at this stage haven’t looked at the data, they’ve just confiscated the equipment and sealed it in evidence bags.
It’s a good point to raise though, because this is the point of the raid. To let people know that they’re not safe and should keep their heads down.
Re your last paragraph, I am not easily intimidated or paranoid but do not want my freedom of speech to be attacked or that by association.
Just say the senders partner or relative or good friend works for the government, could they to be targeted because of something ongoing and unresolved which is on a seized persons computer?
If the person with access to the data is inclined towards dirty politics, then yes, of course.
It’s not about paranoia. The govt is actively suppressing dissent. Paula Bennett disclosed personal details of WINZ clients who had spoken publicly about WINZ policy and then laughed in the face of the privacy commissioner when he ruled against her. Sarah Wilson who blogs about being a sickness beneficiary and her experiences with WINZ got a copy of her file and discovered that WINZ are tracking her online and even with things like looking at the video of when she walked into the WINZ office. This is serious shit that goes beyond what Slater’s crew have been doing.
Just to clarify, afaik the police can’t release any of the information they seized. It could end up in court, which means it could end up in the public domain.
Whether the police can use the information in other cases I don’t know (aren’t warrants specific?).
The third option is they leak it.
yeah, just like they couldn’t send a copy of seized dotcom data to the FBI.
The identities of Mr. Hager’s sources are in the national interest. They can then be used as bargaining chips.
Ongoing donations to the National Party in exchange for which Odgers gets the names; that sort of thing.
Ms collins, a former Minister of Justice and Police once gave China lecture on corruption… Carrick graham couldnt make this shit up…
Just imagine if someone hacked Nicky’s computer and had access to all his correspondence (and presumably yours if you emailed him), and they then went on to publish it and make money from it. Does that offend you more or less than the police following up on a complaint of an individual who actually did do that.
Just imagine if someone hacked a major political party’s computers and downloaded all the financial details of the party’s membership base – plus other info. – and then proceeded to use the information gathered for dirty political purposes.
Just imagine if that same someone received stolen goods from a mate who had unlawfully taken a business opponent’s computer hard drive and then accepted payment from that same ‘mate’ to run a dirty smear campaign against the business opponent.
Don’t you think the police should have quickly followed up on those two offences and raided that someone’s property before he/they had a chance to commit any more felonies?
Your post doesn’t make any sense. If you could express clearly what your question is, maybe I could answer it. I suspect you’re trying to say hacking Nicky Hager’s computer and writing a book about how many cat pictures he has is somehow equivalent to Nicky receiving information of all sorts of ethical and illegal conduct and turning it into a book. I really don’t think your book would sell very many copies, but yeah, I’d be annoyed that some scumbag had hacked the computer of a responsible citizen. Not quite as annoyed as I am at having a government with less ethics than governing ability.
Hey Ive got a garage full of paper and old computers I don’t want.
Can I get the police to take them away.
I won’t even hassle them about getting them back!!!
A hoarder might be interested in your junk as well.
It is not Junk!!!
Carefully collect over many years.
I get attached to some of my stuff (junk) as well.
I still have the old style TV. Yesterday evening I saw that some pooches in an Auckland dog service were unable to watch their plasma screens due to the power cut. Dogs watch flasher TV than me!
But I don’t want to be attached any more!!
did you have an ‘e’..?
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, latest episode, has a segment on
sounds like the “production order”
“How can the Police violate Hager’s rights in this fashion, given the Bill of Right’s protections against unreasonable search and seizure? As No Right Turn has pointed out, the likely tool involved has to do with the powers granted to Police under the draconian Search and Surveillance Act of 2012 :
These allow the police (and a host of other agencies) to apply for a production order for any document for which they could obtain a search warrant (basicly, anything containing evidence of any imprisonable offence). “Document” specifically includes call-data, including telecommunications stored on a network-provider’s network (so text messages and stored voicemail), and the purpose of the provision was specifically to allow police to access such information (as well as banking information and so forth). That is, its all about extracting information from third parties. But the provisions around privilege (including legal professional privilege and journalistic privilege) apply only to the target of such an order. Telecom and Vodafone have no privilege over your communications with your lawyer, so those provisions are basically a dead letter”.
The truth is that dirty politics is much bigger than John Key playing dirty.
Its as big as capitalism rotting at the head and threatening our existence.
‘Why are the Police raiding Hager’s house and not following up on the other investigations?’
By Martyn Bradbury / October 8, 2014
“The Labour Party made a formal complaint regarding the allegations in Dirty Politics on the 1st of September, the Greens made a complaint on the 14th of August, yet it is Slater’s complaint made on August 28th that has had priority. Whose interests are the NZ Police serving here? The people of NZ or the National Party?…
– See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/10/08/why-are-the-police-raiding-hagers-house-and-not-following-up-on-the-other-investigations/#sthash.p7rcEmX3.dpuf
In any other Western country Hager would be viewed as a hero by fellow journalists.for exposing what appears to be a shady Government. No not in this Nation, our inept media prefer to look the other way. The wider implication of a complete failure to take the Key regime to task see’s us stuck for another 3 years with this sellout lot. Which leads me to believe the only way of defeating Key is when the MSM want a change of Government. What a sad indictment on freedom of the press, when they are merely puppets for the elite.
The difference between the two cases is huge. If you can’t see that then you are even more mental than Cameron Slater. (which actually many in the Labour party have confirmed to me)
Let’s see if you can spot the difference
1. two bit unknown businessman has stolen laundry air on the blog site of a fantasist in order to harm a reputation almost no one was aware of in the first place.
2. Private political conversations involving major political parties are stolen and printed with aim of derailing a national election.
Both criminal acts no doubt, but in terms of police attention it is the difference between investigating a burglary verses a bank robbery.
Those of us in the real world realise this.
Calling the police corrupt really annoys me.
number 2 is slater right?
really bad attempt at framing there monkey
Case 1: Public interest = Modest to zero.
Which is a reasonable argument for the Police to exercise their discretion not to pursue the matter.
Case 2: Public interest = Very High
Which is your argument for the Police to investigate. Fair enough.
But you should also understand that this is exactly the same grounds on which Hager will defend his right as a journalist to publish the material.
The nature of the information revealed in these private conversations has directly lead to the resignation of the Minister of Justice – and quite justifiably influenced an election.
It’s why we have them after all.
Do you really need pointed,to were the police have been corrupt.You are either stupid or a policeman .
You wouldn’t know police corruption if it dragged you out of your bed, put a black bag over your head then executed you in some remote ditch.
Ah, the “there are no murder squads therefore there are no abuses of power” drivel again.
Are wingnuts too stupid to be ashamed of their low intelligence? Paging Dr. Dunning-Kruger.
See, the irony here is that you don’t have the self awareness to realise that you come across as a complete simpleton on these threads.
This is going to come as a bit of a shock…you are nowhere near as clever as you think you are.
I’m completely stupid, and still I can see that there are ways for police to abuse their powers without going so far as to murder people, whereas this is the second day in a row you’ve been caught trying to give mouth-to-mouth to that zombie.
problem is moneky, OAB has responded to your statements – but you havent responded to his
OAB can follow a discussion and discuss – you cant or wont
it actually is you whos looking rather simple – both in your ability to follow an argument and in your weird notion of what is and isnt curruption
Are there actions by the police that aren’t always to the standard expected of them? Yes, sometimes, but isolated enough for me to retain utter confidence in them.
Are the police acting as John Key’s private henchmen, as is being alleged here? Not a fucking chance and you would have to be mental to believe it.
Again, a false dichotomy. I’m alleging no such thing.
The Police don’t just make mistakes, Kong, they exhibit bias in all sorts of ways, as study after study has shown. Mostly, they defer to authority way too often on one side, and overstep their own way too often on the other.
Go on, pretend that means I called them all evil, and hump the zombie again.
well weve had two elections and two raids on media who have made JKs life a bit more difficult than he would like
add to that weve got other complaints, with evidence, that the police havent even bothered to persue, and in fact have dismissed.
weve had the police publicly defame ambrose by calling him guilty when they have no legal right to do so.
weve got cops rading the house of a witness for 10 hours even when the likely hood of finding anything is very slim (and any one with a brain would be able to spot this)
weve also now got the authorities going after a radio DJ but not the all blacks for the same offense
JKs personal hit squad – probably not, but are you seriously saying theres no questionable pattern here? Are you saying the NZ police are acting without fear or favour? That they treat all complaints with the same level of due dilligence?
still not sure why you feel to the need to go all 6yr old on everyone though – couldnt we have just gone straight to this?
But aren’t we lucky that there is a police complaints procedure that will investigate this on your behalf.
Maybe instead of cry wanking here, someone could actually test their conspiracy theories for reals.
Happy to be proved wrong. Good for democracy and all that.
the IPCC? – you mean the body whos findings the police usually say “yeah, we accept the findings… but get fucked” to?
the attitude the police have to the IPCC is a whole other debate
but how would you suggest one tests the theory that the police give the govt of the day an easy ride?
hmmmm? – seeing if they act on similar complaints they received at an earlier date seems to be one possibility wouldnt it? – it would surely indicate certain things that can then be discussed.
kinda exactly what people are doing and your getting all worked up about isnt it?
I have personally made a complaint to the IPCC
I later had a visit ( @ home ) conveniently from the same officer i laid a complaint against
of course he “smelled cannabis” and proceed try and tear my and my family’s house apart looking for this cannabis (of which there at that stage was none ), he quickly gave up when my wife and daughter both started filming him (with running commentary) going through there (and my @ the time 9 year old daughters ) underwear drawers looking for this mystery cannabis
The IPCA will perform a whitewash in any cases where the complainant doesn’t supply so much evidence that they are forced into making a finding. Which the police then ignore. I suspect the monkey knows that deep down, but can’t let go of his fantasy world.
Banks: He’s a strange fellow, the other fellow isn’t he?
Key: Mmmm! Oh, yeah! Yeah, no, no, we’ve been down that road! That is why when they rang me in the UK I never ever thought of this, you know, 15 percent we’d have a snap election…
Banks: I didn’t know. I didn’t know.
Key: Well, you learn everyday. So, you want to do the standup? Is that yours? Is that yours? Is that yours?
Key: Hey, that’s a recording device.
Guess they raided the media at that time and got private records from the camerman because thats what henchmen do , their masters bidding
You just gave me a list of examples which you claim show police corruption and political favour so why don’t you start with them.
But of course, you couldn’t possibly take them to the IPCC cos they are toothless, toothless I tell ya.
Better to hang around here shaking an angry fist and crying conspiracy.
“Calling the police corrupt really annoys me.”
why are you a police officer ?
if you are you should quit , Policeman suffer among the worst stats for suicide and spousal/child abuse
or maybe you have a relative who is a cop, you should encourage them to quit for the good of their Karma
When was the last time time you lied to get consent to search or to invoke the misuse of drugs act ?
” I smell cannabis”
A friend who joined the police ( and sensibly left soon after he realized it wasn’t the institution he thought he was joining )has told me they are trained to use these kinds of lies to perform otherwise illegal searches on a regular basis.
Due to there tendency to lie i refuse to speak to police men and women at all (other than “no comment” ) its safer for me and they dont have to lie and compromise them selves that way
I am not a policeman.
Being a law abiding citizen, I have very little to do with the police ever, so I will have to take your word for it that they are all evil and 11,000 of them are keeping secret an agenda of illegality.
you should be a policeman you sound like a prime candidate !
its usually not a brilliant idea to engage in over blown exaggerations then instantly call someone a fucking moron
unless your aim is to come across as a complete idiot
You did not mention one thing King Kong. The “two bit unknown businessman” was attacked in his home and had a shot fired at him. This particular incident ought to have the police investigating the original taking of his data to ascertain if there is some sort of link.
King Kong won’t admit that he thinks it’s ok to murder people so long as you dehumanise them first.
Was the shooting confirmed or alleged?
NBR think so.
NBR ONLINE understands high-profile businessman Matthew Blomfield was hospitalised following an attack at his home on the weekend.
Police have confirmed two men were involved in a fight at an address in Greenhithe on Saturday night.
Spokeswoman Beth Bates said a gunshot was heard and a 38 year-old man – understood to be Mr Blomfield – was found with facial injuries. He was taken to hospital and has since been discharged.
She says the offender had fled by the time armed police arrived. The offender remains outstanding and unidentified but inquiries are continuing, police say.
But slater said… But slater said…
alleged is usually one of the stages your at when you ask the police to look into things
Or when the police have looked into something and found no evidence of it.
“Or when the police have looked into something and conveniently found no evidence of it.” FIFY
where are you getting these from your 6 year old ?
There’s an app you can get that curses in Elizabethan style:
Thou blabbering rough-hewn harlot
Thou loggerheaded bat-fowling miscreant
Thou cowering tardy-gaited scut
Thou trembling flap-mouthed malcontent
Thou venomed tickle-brained basket-cockle
… and so on. It’s much more creative.
I need that App !
we should have that as a button here – it would add colour and remove tension at the same time! 🙂
Hmm, the one I have isn’t on the iTunes store any more, but if you search for “Shakespearean insult generator” you can find some – and they’re free.
What the fuck is a cock womble? 😆
KK has her moments 🙂
some sort of small furry creature that collects discarded cocks for some sort of creative up-cycling?
dont they live in burrows or something?
From the urban dictionary:
Male-directed insult. Also describes the tendency to rummage in your underwear massaging ones genitals as if looking for litter to pick up (hence womble )
Look at that guy. He is such a cockwomble.
Pocket Billiards, as played by cockwombles. Makes perfect sense.
Must admit I tend towards the ‘Al Bundy’ in front of the TV more often with increasing age……….. must be something to do with checking that there’s something still there.
thats why we all go track pants as we get older 🙂
oh my god there is one again – the classic right whinging name caller…..just like John Key calling a Pulitzer award winning journalist names of late.
“Both criminal acts no doubt, but in terms of police attention it is the difference between investigating a burglary verses a bank robbery.”
Who gets to choose what is investigated and the level of the investigation that is carried out, is the person with the power and resources and what they want to remain hidden. E.g. Ambrose compared to Slater obtaining information and what they did with it.
“Calling the police corrupt really annoys me.”
It is about having confidence in the police when it comes to being independent in investigating a political matter. When the police commissioner starts a job, I expect him to do the job properly without any favours or government/intelligence interference. I also expect Bush to not breach any legislation, because then the police will need to be held to account.
I have no issue with the police being held to account if they have done something wrong or acted inappropriately.
I do have an issue with jumped up, weak hearted, cum socks poking sticks from the sidelines.
[lprent: It isn’t exactly the sidelines for me. Basically you are an idiot who has no idea what you are talking about
About 8-9 years ago my niece, then as now a animal right activist, peacefully protested outside fur shop. A few weeks later her house was raided by police with a search warrant, a charge of “intimidation by loitering”, and as with Nicky Hager they grabbed all of her computers, cameras, documents, and anything else they could get including her diary.
When the search was protested about to the IPCA by my sister, the damn fool detective in charge tried to use material in the diary to get her to back off.
What they were doing was having an intelligence gathering exercise using some ridiculous charge with pisspoor legal reasoning to get a search warrant – exactly as the police have just done with Slater.
They held all of the ‘evidence’ for 15 months (a problem for a student programmer) while the case went to district court (where a judge gave her a $400 fine) and then to the high court who overturned the verdict. She won there because “protesting is not loitering”. After 15 months, her computer gear came back laden with malware and viruses.
I wasn’t on the sidelines for this. I spent $30k to pay for her lawyers – she was just 17 at the time.
The main reason for the cost was that this particular part of the Crimes Act had never ever been used since Muldoon stuck it in purportedly against gangs. Its use would have been a real issue for unions with strikes and any kind of activist protesting anything. If protesting is loitering
Since we weren’t awarded costs and the police were the perpetrators of the injustice, they are on my shitlist whenever they do anything that reeks of the same kind of stupidity and injustice. I have $30k of pain for them to repay. I exercise it it whenever I see them abusing their powers.
But since you are so fond of the sidelines and are in favour of police who waste other peoples time on needless court battles they will lose using the taxpayers money. I am happy to oblige. You will stay banned for the time it takes Hager to get his gear back from the police and a formal apology from them. In other words – bye bye. ]
” jumped up, weak hearted, cum socks”
this is getting good !
Does verbal abuse and name calling give you a big thrill?
it shouldnt because hes not very good at it !
Shouldn’t you be hiding from the Police or doing something useful like sucking off sailors.
you kiss JK arse with that mouth ?
Who holds the police to account?
The IPCA is a dinosaur, it does not have the resources or power to hold the intelligence service to account. Just before the election, I heard Key say similar words to this, the IPCA is adequate, crap.
Wait till lprent sees that.
And that would be a permanent ban for the Little Monkey.
Surely not – give him hope.
After all the monkey probably thinks that after the polices appeals are done, that they will win?
And if they don’t then surely he would expect that the police will issue a full apology and pay the expenses for the trouble they have caused because they didn’t understand the law.
He has hope… (not much)
Now Iprent, I read all of your inserts, well because generally they give me a good giggle, and remind me not to be an OTT which when I get angry or grumpy. Ahhh god bless backspace button.
It was, a minor horror story to read about your niece. And if no one has said before – Go Uncle for having her back! That piece of legislation I thought had been removed, by Palmer when he did his big clean up of legislation which didn’t work. It is a worry to see it, still on the books.
My final point is, I’m glad you gave king dong a glimmer of hope – because it gave me the best belly laugh of the day, and my partner loved it too.
I’m not aware of any legal basis on which crimes are more severe if they involve information with a high degree of public and/or political interest.
In a civil case I am sure it would increase the claim for damages, but in a criminal case it shouldn’t matter. The charges would be the same.
If the police are treating complaints involving ‘important’ people in a radically different fashion to complaints involving ‘ordinary’ people, that is definitely tending towards corruption.
Perhaps you don’t see any problem because you expect ‘important’ people to be given the red-carpet treatment as a matter of course and this is just how the ‘real world’ works.
But it is important to note that this is not actually how it is supposed to work.
In an otherwise equal world, the Blomfield case would have been acted on with more alacrity, since what Whalespew was supposedly in possession of came from an actual physical burglary. He was also allegedly in possession of material objects stolen from Blomfield. Then there’s the gun involved. In normal circumstances, police would give priority to a case where a property had been entered with felonious intent. They love saying this sort of stuff in court, even bringing up the physical danger to anyone who might be on the premises.
In this case, things seem to have been the complete opposite. This leads me to the thought that Hitler had to invent his own personal security force with the SS, whereas Key has been able to take over an existing institution. Probably Godwin, but the thought popped into my head.
“Calling the police corrupt really annoys me.”
Facts are often annoying.
So, King Kong @ 16 says in no.1 “on the blog site of a fantasist “and then no.2 says “Private political conversations involving major political parties are stolen”.
And the common person is SlaterIsNotRawshark. ?
“Calling the police corrupt really annoys me.”
Terrific contribution there fuck knuckle
Have a look at your knuckles,thats your blood'”fool”contribute or pissoff.
“Terrific contribution there fuck knuckle”
you sure sound sound like a cop , they LOVE a little verbal abuse, doesn’t leave any marks you see
He does sound like a cop. It’s uncanny.
Far greater than anything you have to contribute on the matter.
Police can be corrupt and some are.
It let’s them dominate the blog and the direction of the discussion. Freeze them off and let them b…..r off to their own natural habitat.
I have no intention of giving him any more air. Well aware of his motives.
Just another side of the infamous New Zealand corruption. It is worse than places as China and North Korea ever has been.
Comparing us to other countries is illogical. We live here.
It is deeply worrying that a writer who has been given material that exposes state corruption, is then intimidated and raided by the police.
That is why people, including myself, have given donations to the writer’s legal bills.
if we don’t do something we risk ending up like the countries you mentioned.
Andrew Geddis on the legal issues interviewed by Kathryn Ryan
yea Andrew is good listening,I heard it on the wireless,looked forward to it all morning,but good to have the link.
A Question. Should Police get hold of Hager’s hacker, would they also get hold of Slater’s database, and so Slater’s own implication in holding parliamentary and Labour party information. Police may need to target Hager first, that’s all.
Were Slater to have had a Hager raid done on him, could who Rawshark is have been found out by entering only Slater’s computer?
Hager knew that at some point his home would be raided, this is why he handed back the hackers info.
Hager knew he would be raided because innocent people like him are when Police are caught wanting. I mean can’t look good, that parliamentary and Labour party data was taken by Slater and Rawshark. Now Police have to respond fairly, we all know who Slater is, so its just due diligence for Hager to get a visit.
Lots of words, but with no logic or legal or investigatory rationale. Hopeless. Simpler answer – police don’t care about Slater’s information infringement against hundreds/thousands of Labour Party donors.
I think the timing is more of a worrying issue than the actual search. That may or may not have been well-judged – I think it was an over-reaction and sent out a bad message about the powers of the state, whether intentional or unintentional; we’ve had police mismanagement and misjudgements intruding into public life before, though (think the Ururewa raids, the helicopters over the KDC mansion… etc). They were always likely to follow-up Blubber Boy’s complaint, though. Imagine the outcry from him and others on the right if they hadn’t. (And yes,I agree the other complaints should be given more rigorous follow-up, but see what I mean? We want them to proceed with the “good” complaints and not this one. Well, there are entry of people who feel exactly the same, but opposite.)
It’s impossible to see the timing of this as anything other than (at the very least) cynical (avoiding the glare of the election) and servicing the interests of the establishment. I don’t think I would call it corruption (do we have evidence of personal gain by any of the police?) – I just think it’s politically convenient, and that’s worrying.
BTW – off the subject – I’m often made uncomfortable by the level of personal abuse and invective on this site, but I quite enjoy King Kong’s ingenuity. The same basic idea (penis issues), but lots of verbal dexterity. At least he puts some thought into it. (And no, that doesn’t mean I want a hail of insults in response to this comment.)
“I think the timing is more of a worrying issue than the actual search.”
well – the manner as well.
especially when you compare it to the much more polite and restrained manner the cops used re: teapot tapes
“but I quite enjoy King Kong’s ingenuity. ”
so do i – KKs efforts today do have a certain poetry to them. I think its the repetition with expansion on simple insults and the overall flow. Sure – sometimes its hard not to repost in a flush of anger or frustration – but if you step back and scan the body of work….
Kinda like how redbaiter is bat shit bonkers and rude with it – but it has its own charm that i enjoy in a weird way
The meaning some people derive from some comments are varied indeed. Sometimes I laugh, other times I think sexist, occasionally I just don’t get it the first time or not at all.
When I first blogged on the Standard a few people commented on the slang meaning of Treetop which surprised me when I looked it up. I could not think of anything else so I stuck with it.
adjective- refers to phenomenon in Vietnam when cowardly soldiers would climb trees and maintain that it was an effective fighting position. In modern usage this term describes someone who avoids confrontations but talks about it later as if they were involved.
Nah, he didn’t do shit, he’s just a tree-top mother fucker
I think you used the Urban dictionary for the meaning. Maybe you could add your meaning.
I had no idea what it meant. That’s one of the options given in the Urban Dictionary. I still have no idea which one you are hinting at.
There’s an up-hill battle to be fought when NZ’s leading newspaper prints the following letter:
Nicky Hager’s outrage at police searching his house is as risible as it is pathetic. Hagar tried, and failed, to influence the outcome of a democratic election.
His method was a book of stolen communications, cynically edited to produce a distorted view of political operations. For him to then get upset over a legally executed search warrant is outrageous. The police extended considerably more courtesy to him than he did to his victims.
I bet Nick Cottle also believes Arthur Allan Thomas killed the Crewes, and David Bain killed his family, and the McCanns killed their little girl and that God made little apples.
What I find funny weirdhaha is that the word “risible” seems to find increasing use by tories.
It’s a good word, don’t get me wrong, but it has plenty of synonyms that are equally worthy of use.
I suspect it was used once on some tory site. Monkey see, monkey do.
“to influence the outcome of a democratic election”, But really, that *is* the role of the media in a democracy, just to dig up the dirt and inform the public so they can make an informed decision what to vote for. Unfortunately the two media, Fairfax and AP, does not rise up to that role in New Zealand.
A fair representation of the average National voter. Pretty much ignorant of the real issues at stake, and annoyed by anyone that questions the cult of Key™ #teamkkk #natswaronfacts
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ NEW ZEALAND POLICE _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
101 Glorious Years Since Massey’s Cossacks – The Dream-Run Continues
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ NEW ZEALAND POLICE _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Acting Strictly Impartially on Behalf of the New Zealand National Party
So quite a polite police raid really – no helicopters or black clad swat teams as far as we know.
However I think one of the most disturbing aspects of the search of Hager’s house and removal of his equipment, is whether (as has been suggested already) they police may also have been looking for information regarding new projects. Unless all related material has been backed up somewher safe, the confiscations may sabotage new work or even compromise sources and Hager’s future ability to earn a living.
“or even compromise sources and Hager’s future ability to earn a living.”
Probably try and put the IRD on him.
The Court of Appeal have just ruled that downloaded data does not qualify as “property”. This search and seizure of possible evidence came about as a result of a complaint laid by CamSlat that his downloaded emails had been stolen and that Nicky Hagar had used this stolen property as source material for his. Given the recent CoA ruling, no crime has been committed and there is no legal basis for the search for evidence.
No. The ruling just means that an offence of theft of property has not occurred. They’ll think of something else.
They already did: that’s why they’re investigating the illegal accessing of a computer without authorisation, not a theft.
Important distinction, or everyone who downloaded anything from Whaledump is guilty of receiving.
The whole thing is a nice little diversion from the ACTUAL CONTENT of the book. I guess the Nats are trying to ruin Nicky’s credibility, and shut him down for good.
Hagar successfully ruined any credibility he may once have had many years ago – all by himself.
By trying to hold people in power accountable for their actions?
Yeah right. In reality, by going into print with his opinion stated as fact, unfortunately, he has read so much of his own work that he now really believes that his own fiction is the truth.
you do realise you just stated opinion as fact, right?
Please don’t confuse the silly bird….
It could be hazardous to his intellectual integrity. He may return to drinking
Thank you for adding to my post without acknowledging that you had done so. Clearly shows the low level of integrity that you have.
I realise that the picture is supposed to make me look or feel stupid but sorry, all it does is prove that you are totally lacking in integrity, both intellectual and moral.
I think Weka had already chewed you up by then, eh.
Still, come and see the violence inherent at The Standard! Gonzo’s being oppressed!
Gonzo your comments are lacking in data, either factual or useful
Have you read Dirty Politics ?
Come on Gonzo, your not a muppet, according to the urban dictionary, I think your a pornographer with a penchant for chickens.
“Gonzo porn was not always shot in the first person or in point-of-view fashion as some have suggested here and the quality of the movie depended largely on who was producing it.”
What your saying is porn baby….
my guess is he (hager) will just become more motivated after this pathetic exhibition by the police.
i like the idea of crowdfunding to supportpeople like hager in this situation. i think this idea/method needs to be developed more formally as a means to counter the always better funded right.
“One of the police’s favourite extra-legal punitive punishments against activists is to seize the computers, cameras, and anything else available (like video tapes of Coronation Street) and hold them as evidence for as long as possible”
Suppose we eventually get an episode that reveals Norris is rawshark. What will you say then?
I always suspected chuck norris was involved !
– Chuck Norris was born Sept. 1 1945 & World War II ended Sept. 2 1945 , coincidence ?
To be fair I think it’s far more likely that the police simply care a lot more about right-wing politicians being “spied on” than they do about Cameron Slater’s skullfuckery.
They all need to be sat down and made to read the Peelian Principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles
“They exercise their powers to police their fellow citizens with the implicit consent of those fellow citizens. “Policing by consent” indicates that the legitimacy of policing in the eyes of the public is based upon a general consensus of support that follows from transparency about their powers, their integrity in exercising those powers and their accountability for doing so.”
The following nine principles were set out in the “General Instructions”
To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.
To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.
To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.
To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.
To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.
To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.
To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.
John Key’s Raids
In effect, John Key is telling us that his selective and compliant police force can raid anybody’s house at any time for any reason. Valid or otherwise.
No wonder he feels “humble”. He has got complete control over every human being in this country.
Being John Key, he often uses the great and grandiose police raids to cause discomfort to people who fail to adore him. As a “humble” man, he requires endless adoration. Creepy.
The Police Force knows who butters their bread.
The common man knows that regrettably the police “solve” a number of their crimes by planting evidence. It is by no means their only fault. I wouldn’t be in Nicky Hager’s shoes if you paid me.
On second thoughts. Hager is probably one of the most honest men in New Zealand. He is esteemed for it.
John Key never seems to get accolades for dinkum honesty. Ouch.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, sling both slater and Hagar in jail, both are obnoxious thiefs and profit from the ill gotten gains from private information. Maybe they can share a cell and middle nz are rid of both of them
Oh look, a right winger advocating that Hager be jailed for exposing Dear Leader’s perfidy.
It’s always a little bit disappointing when they live up to the authoritarian gimp stereotype, don’t you think?
They would have time to write a book, joining forces, anything is possible.
Ah but whose computer would they raid?
I love the delusion in your name. The real deal is this, National are in power, they control your life. They have power over the people who did not vote them in.
You would think that if they were so wonderful there polices would stand by themselves like shinning bastions of enlightenment illuminating the unwashed masses.
Dont you get this.
The fact they have sooooooooooo, much money, yet still have to do the dirty indicates to me, there is an amoral component….They have to be dirty in order to get their shit polices through.
National are just a bunch of snotty nosed brats that have been found out.
Nikki v Slater (hummmm which one is backed by Team Key? and big business)
I’m really gutted the police have got caught up in this. There job at the best of times must suck.
Go Nikki, Go…..
I think you would have helped RedDelusion with your explanation of the dark side of Power and Money.
John Key set the agenda for Slater, Farrar, Hooton, et al, and they are individually and collectively responsible for the mental atrocities committed on Key’s list of unwanteds.
The money chucked at his friends (Slater, Farrar et al) was the bait. Miss Collins did shocking attacks with gusto . If one cent of that blood money was from Goverment Taxes, then Mr Key should stand trial.
Never has New Zealand sunk so low. The creepy Key mental slaughter scene will not go away ever. The Greed, The Filth, The wasted opportunity of the Key Government and its Ministers will be sifted and winnowed for decades to come. It will become known as The Horror Ministry.
People like Key sooner or later turn on their friends. For their main inner activity is wielding dark power and attacks and revenge. They can’t stop at just their so called enemies.
Redelusion needs to understand that very clearly.
Worth reading: Ch 4 “The Boys in Blue” in Guardian writer Owen Jones 2014 book “The Establishment And how they get away with it”…since Key follows UK trends assiduously..
You raise an important issue, but I think it pre-dates the current government. It seems to me that police, being party of a strict hierarchal institution, tend to be obsequious to authority, and this extends, even if only subliminally, to the government of the day.
Were the police acting independently of Muldoon during the Springbok Tour? My understanding is that the police commission sometimes worked out of Muldoon’s own personal office during matches.
Then there were the (much more minor) painting and speeding issues with Clark and what looked to the then-opposition like a go-slow with Field (over much more serious matters). Field only seemed to be properly dealt with by the police after he was cut loose by the then government. Nothing was done about the then-government’s deliberate overspending in the 2005 election.
I cannot think of any explanation other than obsequiousness towards the government-of-the-day to the over-the-top response to John Key’s teapot tapes complaint in 2011. In contrast, nothing at all was done by the police for months and months when the then leader of the opposition made a complaint over The Hollow Men emails. This has been a dramatically faster response by the police to Cameron Slater’s complaint than occurred for Don Brash.
This obsequiousness seems to extend to parliament as a whole. Have the police ever properly investigated matters referred to them by the Electoral Commission? I certainly can’t think of a single example of anyone being properly prospected for breaches of election rules.
It will be interesting to see if the police investigate and prosecute the ALCP for breaches of the election rules (see http://www.elections.org.nz/news-media/referral-police-3-october-2014 ). It seems to me they probably should do based on the law but most certainly shouldn’t based on their previous decisions about other parties. Given that the police seem to have a policy of not enforcing the Electoral Act, the amazing thing is that parties still seem to bother trying to comply with it.
Not to mention overlooking your trade in death threats.
That was payback for his imaginary six days in the foetal position the first time his total lack of character and ethics became public.
Hooton, if your the real right wing paid to ignore his own conscious person. Speeding, etc pales into insignificance to what you lot are currently up to.
But at the end of the day… my office says your house of straw will eventually come back to bite you. You’ll be when your esteemed leaders fairy land policies ruin this country be as popular as one Roger Douglas, what will it be like for you when the truth is finally revealed, will you be able to do your supermarket shopping, will you be able to pop to the pub for a pint.
You should think about that when you play attack the poor and label ferals games.
Not that I’m condoning violence at all, but I wonder to myself at what point will they cross the line of attacks on democracy and fair elections that the public backlash comes to bite your arse.
Matthew, did you notice that in all of your examples it is National (or the right) using the police as an offensive political weapon against Labour (or the left)?
He was too busy being obsequious to the party that is in his DNA
No I didn’t. But another way of looking at that is that it has tended to be Labour and the left that has run afoul of the law. The wider issue remains: the police seem not to want to prosecute when the govt or politicians are involved – unless it is the interests of the government of the day.
Have you heard back from David Parker yet?
” it has tended to be Labour and the left that has run afoul of the law”
But to accept that, we have to forget all about Slater publishing stolen property, which brings us full circle. So there’s that.
Also, painting: what the fuck, Matthew? Why are you bringing that pathetic fantasy into a serious discussion?
Why would you lower yourself like that? It degrades us both.
[email protected] it degrades us both…
Mised you felix
Someones word for the day is obsequious
Thanks for starting my day with a laugh.
I like seeing these unfashionable polysyllabic words coming back into use, they have a kind of musicality to them. I can think of a few more, specifically for Hoots: unctuous, disingenuous, sycophantic…
I suppose he thinks that if he collects enough addresses to send murder threats to, they’ll come for him last of all – but by then there won’t be anyone left to speak for him.
+100…i am surprised he has the gall to come back here
And to speak in relation to Nicky Hager, someone whose murder he took delight in contemplating in particular. He really is a despicable slimeball without a shred of conscience.
Perfidious is my fave…
Hi Matthew Hooton
There is an ongoing struggle between Authoritarianism and Democracy. They are like two warring siblings.
The rule of the King and his eccentric band called the “Nobles” has been by far the longest serving model.
Democracy is very much the new chum. For convenience, I pin point it back to around 1840. I am aware that the French were into it earlier. Britain maintained that they were earlier too. But in actual fact, with their unelected House of Lords (Nobles and Bishops) they have failed to achieve democracy even yet.
The Common Man has never fully withdrawn his allegiance to Authoritarian Rule, even though he simultaneously praises Democracy.
The Police as you point out, are an Authoritarian Organisation. As is the Military. As are many religions.
New members of the Authority Club include the modern Corporation and the “I don’t go to work mob” called the Share Holders. (Taxation for these latter two is an optional extra.)
The Democracy ideal is pincered to a nicety by these major Authoritarian Institutions. Doctors, Teachers, Lawyers, Civil Servants to a degree, all run somewhat effective professional Unions. But the people like our current PM and Ministry detest them and starve them of resources as punishment.
Blue Collar workers are trampled on by a variety of legislated tactics, largely framed by fickle Corporations.
But what we are discussing here Matthew it seems to me, is the honesty of a massively domestic spying, prying Government which favours blatantly only one sector of the population. Namely the Wealthy.
John Key and his good friend Paula Bennett, apparently grew up in modest circumstances. However, this has not deterred them from switching their absolute focus to the Wealthy, in a display of mind boggling determination. They use the withholding of resources technique to achieve it.
Is John Key Honest? Well he can’t even remember so he says, which stand he personally took in the protests against South African Apartheid Rugby.
So between Roger Economics, and a lack of living wages for many, the present PM and his attacking Ministers and blogging sycophants, have reintroduced a Dickensian real life existence for many.
No hope of ownership of property; no hope of living wages; or of even modest middle class wealth. Dickensian.
Do you live inside a car Matthew ? Or do you dwell in a massively over crowded house paying rents you cannot afford? I don’t either.
Do you lambast Teachers and Doctors? Do you even care a fig Matthew?
As an honest man and commentator what would be your genuine advice to this Parliament and PM here and now?
Or do you love the status quo ?.
Since he so gleefully aided Odgers in her half-arsed conspiracy to solicit murder (insanity may be a defence, incompetence isn’t), I think that we all know the answer to that.
In his mind that now never happened…
Maybe he’ll claim that he was drunk at the time. That has been a problem of his, he says >:)
Alcoholism isn’t very funny though, so if anyone you know has a drinking problem, I strongly recommend CareNZ for their counselling and support services.
“her half-arsed conspiracy to solicit murder”
I haven’t heard about that one can you elucidate ?
It came out in Dirty Politics. Cathy Odgers was annoyed that Nicky Hager was investigating some of her client’s dodgy money dealing and decided that she wanted him killed, suggesting that one of her clients might be the one to do the deed. Hooton gave her his address.
relevant parts of Dirty Politics quoted here: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/08/blogwatch-why-is-whaleoil-deleting-blogs/
Only a few days after the obvious comparisson was traversed in other Shooton gave the street name. Slater provided the full address. Just a joke though, aye Hoots… Oh how you all laughed.
Thankyou for the Reference to Owen Jones 2014 Book “The Establishment And how they get away with it”, Chapter 4 “The Boys in Blue”.
The number of club members that back Authoritarianism (The Establishment) almost overwhelms once fine democracies like ours.
I am not exaggerating.
Only had The Establishment” one day, Observer; front cover opinion from Russell Brand proclaims “Our generation’s Orwell” ..what do you make of that?
It is not everyday that The Standard and The New Zealand Herald have similar editorials: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11340033&ref=rss
Perhaps they are developing a teeny conscience?
But it is more likely that it is their usual self-interest. They don’t want the possibility of being raided. Weren’t Fisher of the Herald and Nippet (now at the Herald) the people who got sent rawshark dumps?
Ah yes. The Herald holds the emails now I think!
i thought the emails were shared/split between fairfax/apn and tv3…
..none of whom have yet coughed up the goodies..
..and i dunno if they all got different material..
..or were all given duplicates of the same material..
You may be right. I don’t know for sure.
Being sure about something has never been an impediment to you proclaiming something as fact before?
Remember three weeks ago when you said dotcom was paying for votes in TTT until Ryan corrected you that they were paying for the buses.?
They can’t even get it right. Far from being “unsolicited”, Hager states that he sought contact with Rawshark as soon as he heard about the attack on the death-threat factory.
how about answering the well-reasoned/written comment 37..?
Ahhhh, but shooton only posts hereto serve his own means and masters overall strategy. For example stating that the herald raised the same issue as the standard was his way of pretending that the herald, therefore, cannot have a right agenda.
None of you been able to re nobble fisher ye?, but then its straight after the election, you dont need to worry about the truth being published for a year or so, I think.
Only a few days after the obvious comparisson was traversed in other places…
The Herald conveniently remembers its role after the election. Not to worry hoots, your lot will have a few cocktail parties and other means to get them back on track for the next election.