web analytics

Johnnie’s choice

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, October 10th, 2008 - 17 comments
Categories: john key, national, slippery - Tags:

With the second English secret agenda tape out, John Key was asked whether he was worried about whether he had been caught on a tape. His answer: “oh, look, who knows”

That’s a weak answer. A strong answer would be along the lines of ‘I’m not worried if there is a tape of me because I say the same things in private as I say to the people of New Zealand’. That was his line when the first English tape came out, before National knew there were more. Now, Key can’t be sure there isn’t a tape of him.

But, given that he has to err on the side of assuming there is a tape of him, Key could still have chosen a strong rather than a weak response if, and it’s a big ‘if’, he knew that he hadn’t been voicing National’s secret agenda in private. Only if there was no possibility of a Key tape emerging could Key run the strong line. If he has been talking about a secret agenda in private, he must run the weak line in case a tape emerges and he is shown to be a liar.

The fact that Key chose to run the weak line is telling. He must know that he has been talking about the secret agenda too.

17 comments on “Johnnie’s choice ”

  1. theodoresteel 1

    Thats a very thinly stretched piece of logic.

    He may have made blunders, but he is not that stupid as to talk about secret agenda to anyone who isnt in his circle already.

    < strong >[it’s simple game theory. I was going to make the choice grid for you but I’m sure you can see it yourself. Interesting that you acknowledge that he probably has been talking about the secret agenda. Remember, too, that his senior MPs were stupid enough to talk about it with someone who seemly was a stranger. SP]

  2. higherstandard 2

    Clinton at times you’re like a schoolboy who’s just found his older brothers stash of girlie magazines – it’s not a great look.

  3. Vanilla Eis 3

    *Recommends SP take the there/they’re/their test on Facebook*

  4. BeShakey 4

    Given Key’s generally weak response to awkward questions (when he doesn’t redirect), I have to agree that its hard to draw that conclusion from what he said.

  5. dave 5

    given that he has to err on the side of assuming their is a tape of him


  6. Scribe 6


    I often disagree with your posts, but at least see your point.

    This makes you look incredibly desperate and possibly scared about the impending result.

  7. Matthew Pilott 7

    Scribe, are you trying to exude some zen-like demeanour? It’s sitting oddly.

  8. Barb 8

    Re the right-wingers comments on this site
    – talk about rose-coloured glasses!!
    What evidence will it take for you guys to accept you are supporting a party of liers and deceivers? Where are your principles?

  9. Scribe 9


    Scribe, are you trying to exude some zen-like demeanour? It’s sitting oddly.

    No, and never been accused of being zen-like. I just don’t like coming on and saying things like “Steve, you’re scared and desperate”.

  10. sorry about the ‘their’ error. I know my grammar but things slip at 1am.

    HS. I see you’re running the line I predicted in the previous post. well done.

  11. Tim Ellis 11

    I think I can help you SP. I have a copy of a secret tape of John Key at the National Party conference. I am struggling to upload it from my tape recorder to the interweb, but I can provide the transcript here:

    John Key (JK): Pssst.

    Secret-taping Person (SP): Yes, can I help you?

    JK: I haven’t seen you before, are you authorised to be here at this Conference?

    SP: Yes I am definitely a National Party supporter. I am definitely not a Labour Party supporter. If I were a Labour Party supporter, I wouldn’t pretend I am not a Labour Party supporter by telling people I am a Green Party supporter.

    JK: Oh good, so although I haven’t seen you before, and trust that you’re not taping this conversation, I would like to talk about National’s secret agenda.

    SP: Oh good-oh. Do tell.

    JK: Yes, we have a secret agenda to sell all state assets, slash people’s wages, give tax cuts only to rich people, privatise healthcare and education, and kill all puppy dogs. While we’re at it we will also secretly break the Electoral Finance Act, but do it in a way that is so subtle that nobody notices. Evil laugh.

    SP: Those are big secrets you have there in your agenda.

    JK: Yes they are. Are you sure you’re not taping this?

    SP: Very sure. Quite certain, I think.

    JK: Good. So please don’t tell anyone. I need to go and do some insider trading now. See you later.

  12. Vanilla Eis 12

    Tim: You forgot eating babies. That John Key is a bastard!

  13. Matthew Pilott 13

    Tim, now I know that was satire, but given that at the conference several senior National Party MPs spoke to someone they clearly did not know about selling kiwisaver and implied that winning was more important than principles, it loooks a bit silly to satirise something that pretty much happened as you said (without the silly embellishments).

    Scribe – it was just that your comment seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with the post, nor anything that could reasonably be deduced from the post.

  14. Tim Ellis 14

    That is a fair point Matthew, and you will appreciate that it is my view that the secret tapes have been hysterically embellished by the Left. My comment was intended to satirise that embellishment.

  15. Matthew Pilott 15

    Ah, I thought you were impolying they never happened…

    Doesn’t it concern you a bit, or do you also really put it down to it being the kind of discussion you’d have among your supporters?

    I can see where that point of view comes from, but it doesn’t wash with me. If I were a member if a party and senior MPs were saying things to me that I knew were going to look so bad in the public domain, or were in contradiction of stated policy I don’t think I would be happy, unless I was convinced that my party should win no matter what it requires.

  16. Scribe 16


    Scribe – it was just that your comment seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with the post, nor anything that could reasonably be deduced from the post.

    Oh, I see. Well, trying to make something of John Key’s response to this question, and how it differs from an earlier one, smacks of desperation.

    In the same way, I thought the attention given to Phil Goff’s answers about Labour leadership, based on the fact they were different from earlier statements, was ridiculous.

  17. According to the clip in “In case you missed it”, he was asked if he _believed_ he’d been recorded, not if he was worried about. I imagine he probably is worried, but I can’t fault him for not answering a question he wasn’t asked.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Tokelau Language Week reminds us to stay united and strong
    Staying strong in the face of challenges and being true to our heritage and languages are key to preserving our cultural identity and wellbeing, is the focus of the 2020 Tokelau Language Week. Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio, says this year’s theme, ‘Apoapo tau foe, i nā tāfea ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • NZ announces a third P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    The Government has deployed a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea, announced Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark. “New Zealand has long supported ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Pacific trade and development agreement a reality
    Pacific regional trade and development agreement PACER Plus will enter into force in 60 days now that the required eight countries have ratified it. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the announcement that the Cook Islands is the eighth nation to ratify this landmark agreement. “The agreement represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Securing a pipeline of teachers
    The Government is changing its approach to teacher recruitment as COVID-19 travel restrictions continue, by boosting a range of initiatives to get more Kiwis into teaching. “When we came into Government, we were faced with a teacher supply crisis,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “Over the past three years, we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Border exceptions for a small number of international students with visas
    The Government has established a new category that will allow 250 international PhD and postgraduate students to enter New Zealand and continue their studies, in the latest set of border exceptions. “The health, safety and wellbeing of people in New Zealand remains the Government’s top priority. Tight border restrictions remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • First COVID-19 vaccine purchase agreement signed
    The Government has signed an agreement to purchase 1.5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 750,000 people – from Pfizer and BioNTech, subject to the vaccine successfully completing all clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, say Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods and Health Minister Chris Hipkins. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • International statement – End-to-end encryption and public safety
    We, the undersigned, support strong encryption, which plays a crucial role in protecting personal data, privacy, intellectual property, trade secrets and cyber security.  It also serves a vital purpose in repressive states to protect journalists, human rights defenders and other vulnerable people, as stated in the 2017 resolution of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ministry of Defence Biodefence Assessment released
    The Ministry of Defence has today released a Defence Assessment examining Defence’s role across the spectrum of biological hazards and threats facing New Zealand. Biodefence: Preparing for a New Era of Biological Hazards and Threats looks at how the NZDF supports other agencies’ biodefence activities, and considers the context of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020
    New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020 Hon David Parker’s response following Thomas Piketty and Esther Duflo. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever in the world you might be. I first acknowledge the excellent thought provoking speeches of Thomas Piketty and Esther ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Kaipara Moana restoration takes next step
    A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed today at Waihāua Marae between the Crown, local iwi and councils to protect, restore and enhance the mauri of Kaipara Moana in Northland. Environment Minister David Parker signed the document on behalf of the Crown along with representatives from Ngā Maunga Whakahī, Ngāti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand and Uruguay unite on reducing livestock production emissions
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Uruguayan Minister of Livestock, Agriculture and Fisheries Carlos María Uriarte have welcomed the launch of a three-year project that will underpin sustainable livestock production in Uruguay, Argentina, and Costa Rica.  The project called ‘Innovation for pasture management’ is led by Uruguay’s National Institute of Agricultural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 3100 jobs created through marae upgrades
    Hundreds of marae throughout the country will be upgraded through investments from the Provincial Growth Fund’s refocused post COVID-19 funding to create jobs and put money into the pockets of local tradespeople and businesses, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta have announced. “A total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health volunteers recognised in annual awards
    Health Minister Chris Hipkins has announced 9 teams and 14 individuals are the recipients of this year’s Minister of Health Volunteer Awards.  “The health volunteer awards celebrate and recognise the thousands of dedicated health sector volunteers who give many hours of their time to help other New Zealanders,” Mr Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community COVID-19 Fund supports Pacific recovery
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says a total of 264 groups and individuals have successfully applied for the Pacific Aotearoa Community COVID-19 Recovery Fund, that will support Pacific communities drive their own COVID-19 recovery strategies, initiatives, and actions. “I am keen to see this Fund support Pacific ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community benefits from Māori apprenticeships
    Up to 50 Māori apprentices in Wellington will receive paid training to build houses for their local communities, thanks to a $2.75 million investment from the Māori Trades and Training Fund, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Ngāti Toa Rangatira Incorporated to provide its Ngā Kaimahi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Training fund supports Māori jobseekers
    Rapidly growing sectors will benefit from a $990,000 Māori Trades and Training Fund investment which will see Wellington jobseekers supported into work, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Sapphire Consultants Ltd. to help up to 45 Māori jobseekers into paid training initiatives over two years through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ruakura Inland Port development vital infrastructure for Waikato
    The Government is investing $40 million to develop an inland port at Ruakura which will become a freight super-hub and a future business, research and residential development for the Waikato, Urban Development and Transport Minister Phil Twyford, and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The funding has been has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Appointments made to Defence Expert Review Group
    Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today the establishment of an Expert Review Group to review a number of aspects of the New Zealand Defence Force’s (NZDF) structure, information management and record-keeping processes.  The Expert Review Group’s work arises out of the first recommendation from the Report of the Government’s Inquiry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • No active community cases of COVID-19
    There are no active community cases of COVID-19 remaining in the country after the last people from the recent outbreak have recovered from the virus, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “This is a big milestone. New Zealanders have once again through their collective actions squashed the virus. The systems ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Clean energy upgrade for more public buildings
    More public buildings will be supported by the Government to upgrade to run on clean energy, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. Minister Shaw announced that Lincoln and Auckland universities will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to replace fossil fuel boilers. Southern, Taranaki, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Schools back donations scheme for the second year
    More schools have opted in to the donations scheme for 2021, compared to 2020 when the scheme was introduced. “The families of more than 447,000 students will be better off next year, with 94% of eligible schools and kura opting into the scheme,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Ruapehu cycle trails gets PGF boost
    The spectacular Mountains to Sea cycle trail in Ruapehu District will receive $4.6 million in funding from the Provincial Growth Fund for two additional trails, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This is an exciting development for the local community, and one that will provide significant economic opportunities ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago