Just say sorry John

Written By: - Date published: 8:21 am, July 23rd, 2014 - 259 comments
Categories: john key, national - Tags: ,

Unfortunately for the Government the Tania Billingsley story refuses to go away.  As people will be aware she is the young woman who is the complainant in the Malaysian diplomat assault with intent to rape case. She bravely requested for suppression of her identity to be lifted and she has spoken out eloquently and passionately on rape culture.

Some on the right have chosen to criticise her and question her motives. They have rather elegantly if inadvertently reinforced what she has been saying about rape culture. If their sort of thinking is common within National’s ranks then it needs to do some soul searching.

John Key is in trouble over the issue because of as clear a flip flop as you will ever see.

From Radio New Zealand:

On 3 July, when Ms Billingsley’s name was not in the public domain, Mr Key was outraged by the way the case had been handled.

“I don’t know her name. Obviously it’s a matter of privacy, but I think there’s been plenty of public comments that would echo what I’ve just said,” he said.

Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.”

But this all changed this week.  On Monday Key refused to apologise to Ms Billingsley because he said he only made apologies if there was a serious reason for him to do so.  If the colossal mess the Government has made of this issue is not a serious reason then I do not know what would be.

On Tuesday, Key had a different reason.

Because I think the Government has apologised. Both the minister and the officials have made it quite clear they’re sorry for the incident that’s taken place in the way that person left the country. I think that’s wholly appropriate.

“But in the end, I think what’s far more important is that there is a proper inquiry – that’s what the victim in this circumstance deserves and that’s what she’s going to get.

“What’s far more important now, actually, is that the independent inquiry that’s been established and will be run by (former Treasury Secretary) John Whitehead actually gets to the bottom of all of the unanswered questions there.”

There is an online petition petitioning Key to apologise to Tania.  Why is it that for National sorry seems to be the hardest word?

259 comments on “Just say sorry John”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Any apology Key offers at this late stage will be false and insincere.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      +1

      Actually, any apology that Key offered at any time would be false in insincere.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1

        I disagree, otherwise I wouldn’t admire Scandinavian recidivism statistics. Help for Key is available if he just reaches out.

  2. You_Fool 2

    The thing is, the media have made apologising a bad trait for a leader to have – hence all the screen time of Cunliffe apologising for anything and everything. If they get Key to apologise, it means that he is as bad as Cunliffe.

    • James N 2.1

      As “bad” as Cunliffe. Perhaps you mean as good as Cunliffe.

      The framing of David Cunliffe’s apology has been a shameless beat up. Don’t feed it.

    • mickysavage 2.2

      You might be right fool. Key looks tougher than Cunliffe and shores up the bloke vote but loses out on the female vote. I bet they have focus grouped the issue.

      • Colonial Viper 2.2.1

        In the US, the “strong leader” polling question is seen as the most predictive of success running for President. National have decided that this is one of the points of differentiation that they can win on, even though its based on a total PR fantasy.

        • Tracey 2.2.1.1

          Key appears to be sayi ng the victim deserves a half arsed indepedent enquiry which doesnt include the man in charge.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.2

        Tories aren’t the only people who project their own behaviour onto rivals.

        So, MS, what did the focus group say? 😀

      • Murray Olsen 2.2.3

        What a shame we can’t get them both in a cage fight. That’d lose the blokey vote for Key pretty quickly. (Not entirely serious.)

        The Tania Billingsley incident has shown just how rotten NAct is. At the same time as we saw Maggie Barry’s claims about Rolf Harris and Paula Benefat’s concern for anyone else he may have groped, we saw the closing of Christchurch rape crisis and the sick fantasies of Whalespew. To claim that Tania set the whole thing up because she was (i) a lesbian, (2) knew some Greens, and (3) worked with Rape Crisis….FFS, how delusional can you get? The way his stupid fans lapped it up showed what a sick lot they are and also that rape culture is alive and well. That such a piece of gutter filth is mates with the PM is an absolute stain on our country.

        Any decent politician would move very fast to distance themselves from that contemptible scumbag, but similarly to Ross Meurant talking about cops getting lost in the forest, NAct people are up to their eyeballs in this sort of neanderthal culture and think it’s normal.

  3. You_Fool 3

    Also if we tweet about the petition using the hashtag #teamkey is that hilarious?

  4. vto 4

    It seems Key is snookered. If he refuses to apologise it will be a bad look and if he backs down and apologises that will also be a bad look as he will effectively have to also apologise for not apologising.

  5. BM 5

    There’s nothing to apologize for.

    I’d be pretty disappointing if Key did a Cunliffe and made some faux apology for shit that he didn’t cause or have have any part of.

    The whole thing has been turned into a political circus by the greens and the “victim”.

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      Oh don’t be like that BM; McCully was almost the “victim” but Joyce’s blade missed the mark. Maybe next time eh.

    • vto 5.2

      His organisation fucked up and caused distress to a person BM, what don’t you understand about that?

      It is bloody simple.

      simple

      simple

      simple

      • BM 5.2.1

        Yep, MAFT fucked up, which is why there’s going to be an inquiry.

        Still don’t see how that is Keys fault.

        • You_Fool 5.2.1.1

          Key = leader of the government
          MFAT = A Government department

          Think of him like the CEO of NZ, and MFAT as one of the departments. Now someone within that has made a serious error to a customer, so large it has made national/global headlines. The CEO in this case would make an apology to the customer and offer something to make it right, just so the bad publicity didn’t hurt him too bad.

          Sure there is actual human feelings there too, but I have given up on people like you, #TeamKey or CEO’s having the ability to feel real empathy anymore.

        • vto 5.2.1.2

          No not Mfat BM, the government.

          Stop being a dick.

          are you actually John Key?

        • ianmac 5.2.1.3

          Mr Key claims credit for lower crime stats but he is not a policeman. So take unearned credit but deny fault. Hypocritical?

      • You_Fool 5.2.2

        BM, like #TeamKey is unable to feel real human sympathy

    • You_Fool 5.3

      I’m sorry – Is Key not head of our government? Was it not a government department that royally screwed up and made for great hardship for a victim in a serious crime? It is fully appropriate and right that John Key issue an apology (like he said he would) to the victim for the way the case has been handled. He doesn’t need to go to the lengths that Cunliffe went and apoligise that the act happened, I know that Key can’t be that good.

      • You_Fool 5.3.1

        Also if he had done as he said he would it wouldn’t have been political at all… It has now become political because Key refuses to apologise. That said it makes him look like an idiot and unable to lead, so hey continue to not apologise #TeamKey – make yourself a mockery for longer

      • BM 5.3.2

        Better idea would be to sack the public service workers who were the cause of this balls up

        From what I’ve read the whole organization is filled with left leaning sycophants so there’s probably a high chance that this case was deliberately sabotaged to stick it to Key and National.

        Hopefully it will come out during the inquiry and the people responsible will get shown the door.

        • vto 5.3.2.1

          The leader of any organisation is responsible for its actions.

          simple

          simple

          simple

          this is how it works in the real world

          time for Key to man up

        • fender 5.3.2.2

          “From what I’ve read the whole organization is filled with left leaning sycophants…..”

          Well you will insist on believing all the crap from the only other site you visit… #wailfeces

          Hope no one you know suffers like Tania has, could get ugly when you blame them too, and mock them for being a victim you horrible little prick.

        • framu 5.3.2.3

          “Better idea would be to sack the public service workers who were the cause of this balls up”

          you mean McCully, Key and Joyce dont you

          after all its them who fucked MFAT to start with – all of this goes right back to their gut it, starve it and screw it approach to the public service

        • Tracey 5.3.2.4

          And yet you are ok withthe head of the govt lying and misleading kiwis over and over and over and dont think he should be sacked.

          As for whatyou have read…. Rofl

        • appleboy 5.3.2.5

          Let me get the right whinging mindset right. So, in your world, oh, let’s say , in the business world where you right whingers are more comfortable, if an employee fucks up, senior management should not say sorry.

          Sexual assault is not serious enough in the right whinger’s mind for the boss to apologise for actions of the organisation. Leave it up to a line manager when it’s just trifling stuff like attempted rape?

          Well well well, BM is laid bare for all to see.

        • tricledrown 5.3.2.6

          Boorish
          Mysoynist
          Didn,t Nasty national sack alot of Mfat staff.
          Looks like all Nationals chooks coming home to roost!
          All the cuts are starting to bleed votes now

    • Craig Glen Eden 5.4

      BM you are a diguisting piece of shit for blaming the victim of a sexual attack for what is Nationals total stuff up in the handling of this situation. As for Partisan politically motivated attack, the Greens are just doing the job they are elected to do. You should apologise for for blaming the victim or be banned from the Standard..

      • BM 5.4.1

        Who’s blaming the victim?

        Personally I believe the politicians should get their oar out of this case and let justice run it’s course.
        This trial by media is BS.

        • Te Reo Putake 5.4.1.1

          Who’s blaming the victim? That would be you:

          “The whole thing has been turned into a political circus by the greens and the “victim”.”

          The use of the parentheses indicates that you dismiss, diminish and devalue her and her experience.

          Can I suggest you apologise and we can all move on?

          • BM 5.4.1.1.1

            The issue is why don’t really know anything, we haven’t had a court case, the Malaysian chap hasn’t had his day in court.

            I find it disturbing how someone can be accused of sexual assault/rape and that’s it, they’re stuffed, there’s no right of reply, your name is mud and you’re considered guilty.

            All some has to do is point the finger and scream witch and it’s all over.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.4.1.1.1.1

              No, the issue is your indecent finger-pointing, and inability to accept the notion of Ministerial responsibility for anyone on your #team.

              Sad but true.

            • framu 5.4.1.1.1.2

              i find it disturbing how you blame the alleged victim then immediately change tack when challenged – pretty low behaviour

              • BM

                I’m not blaming anyone.

                I’m just keeping an open mind about the whole thing as any thinking person should do.

                If the guy is guilty he’ll be found guilty in a court of law.

                • framu

                  “The whole thing has been turned into a political circus by the greens and the “victim”.”

                  what is that then? a random collection of words you didnt say?

                  1) your saying shes not a victim at all – you could have gone for alleged victim but you went for “victim”

                  2) you implicate her in a charge of political posturing

                • vto

                  An open mind BM?

                  It is not difficult – the government fucked up and caused distress to a young woman over their handling of an alleged criminal assault on her.

                  Apologise like a man and stop being a weakling.

                  • jcuknz

                    Reading this I think BM and I are the only open minds here tonight. An allegation has been made, it has not gone to court so we do not know the veracity of it. The departmental apparent stuff-up is to be investigated so once again we do not know the truth of the matter.
                    But of course it is election time so each side are making as much hay as possible.
                    The situation has changed considerably since John Key said he would apologise and it would be very unwise for him to do so until both investigations have run their full courses.

                    • freedom

                      nah jcuknz
                      hang on a minute, back up the twist truck

                      Key quite openly said he would apologise, if he knew who the alleged victim was.
                      When asked if he would apologise John Key said -in his own words

                      Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.

                      now he has reneged on that apology
                      and none of that affects the case or the inquiry in any way what so ever . Pretty sure having the PM renege on his apology is having an affect on the alleged victim though, don’t you.

                    • mickysavage

                      The issue is not with the veracity of the allegation. The issue is that Malaysia appeared to be OK to allow the person charged to remain in NZ without diplomatic immunity and stand trial but the NZ Government managed to give him the impression that he could leave. This may have been through ineptitude or because McCully’s slashing of MFaT’s resources meant that it cannot respond properly.

                      Either way he should take responsibility.

                • greywarbler

                  BM 10.17
                  I’m just keeping an open mind about the whole thing
                  Haven’t you the brains to close down that gaping. open mind. It’s winter, and it’s cold, obviously your brain is suffering from hypothermia.

                  • framu

                    hey BM goes all quiet when you quote his finger pointing back to him – weird 🙂

                  • Rodel

                    BM
                    “By all means let’s be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
                    Richard Dawkins
                    .

                • daly

                  The guy will never be tried. As soon as it was revealed he was in a psychiatric hospital, it was obvious that the excuse that he was too sick to come to NZ would be made, despite all the diplomatic/trade posturing. That’s why Key should apologise to the victim, because he knows that she will never get her day in court and that will be because trade is more important to him that the welfare of our young women.

                • Populuxe1

                  I suppose he could run off to the nearest Ecuadorian embassy, but I think that’s been done before.

            • Tracey 5.4.1.1.1.3

              yes BM! thats why conviction rates are so low cos all you have to do is scream.

              You are out of your depth and your veneer is slipping.

            • anker 5.4.1.1.1.4

              BM @% 4.1.1.1

              There is no right of reply because the man in question left the country (he wasn’t deported) due to a stuff up at Mfat. If you really wanted to see justice done you would be pretty pissed off for Mfat’s mishandling of it that this isn’t the case. And of course Mfat in McCully’s responsibility and ultimately Keys. Remember, that why we pay these people big money

        • Craig Glen Eden 5.4.1.2

          You did “The whole thing has been turned into a political circus by the greens and the “victim”.”

          The victim has done nothing wrong.

    • Tracey 5.5

      was he being faux on 3 July or yesterday BM?

    • freedom 5.6

      Dear BM

      If there is nothing to apologise for, why did John Key say he would apologise ?
      “Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes”

      You are openly and purposefully ignoring what this post is about and it is not about the criminal proceedings or anything remotely concerning the responsibilities of anyone, but the PM.

      The PM said he would apologise if he knew her name.
      Now he does know her name and refuses to apologise.

      It ain’t complex. It is simply the PM reneging on an apology he originally agreed to make.

      No other topic has relevance.

    • Roy 5.7

      By putting the word victim in inverted commas, BM, are you trying to say that Tania Billingsley was not assaulted? Inquiring minds want to know.

    • Murray Olsen 5.8

      “Victim”. In case I haven’t already told you, you are absolutely contemptible. A young woman was brave enough to come forward and tell as much of her story as she could. Your hero Blubber Boy came up with some disgusting rape apologist misogynist conspiracy theory about it all. You happily go along with it. Do you fantasise about women leading you on too? Whalespew and most of his readers obviously do. Sick bloody puppies.

  6. Tiger Mountain 6

    Not wanting to say “Sorry” to the original Australians haunted PM Howard in Australia for years. Key has come a rare gutser on this one. He is cornered by the need to placate his raw meat supporters.

    Of course sorry is the last thing he is. Of course him saying sorry will be meaningless. But for waverers and non fans Key has been shown by his own words to be a reneger as well as insensitive and spiteful once Tania refused to play total victim. The underlying message to other women is ‘don’t speak out–take it’. That is why ShonKey will ultimately regret this one.

    • Bearded Git 6.1

      +1 TM

      • Anne 6.1.1

        The underlying message to other women is ‘don’t speak out–take it’.

        +1000

        • Tracey 6.1.1.1

          Look no further than how BM got all contradictory and twisted in trying to defend T he liar in Chief.

          Key constantly makes his defenders look foolish and they just queue up for more.

          n

  7. Pascals bookie 7

    “shit that he didn’t cause or have have any part of.”

    That would the government he leads I suppose.

  8. Once was Pete 8

    I see that there is now comment out there that DC knew the identity of the sex offender he met with last week. I don’t know if this is actually true, but it was reported by Barry Soper yesterday. That would be more to apologise for if it was true.
    I don’t believe Key needs to apologise to Tania B because she ‘thought he looked bored’. Is any PM now supposed to apologise to any alleged victim when there is some controversy about the incident, and the victim thinks the PM is disinterested?There is no evidence that I can see that Key is somehow implicated in the incident. That’s what the inquiry will tell us.
    In the meantime we have an ‘innocent until proven guilty’ convention in this country. The politicising of this alleged crime will not help the legal process.

    • James N 8.1

      “Disinterested” means unbiased. Key certainly is not unbiased – as his refusal to apologise demonstrates. “Uninterested” means bored and, in this sense, Key did appear to be uninterested in the necessity for an alleged victim of a sexual assault to obtain redress in NZ courts. “Bored”, yes, and “relaxed” too, no doubt.

      • One was Pete 8.1.1

        Disinterested also means other things and it was the attribute credited to Key by many. As for the rest of your comment there is no basis in fact for any of it. Attributing motive to someone doesn’t make it true.

    • fender 8.2

      “On 3 July, when Ms Billingsley’s name was not in the public domain, Mr Key was outraged by the way the case had been handled.”

      Did you actually read the post?? Or are you saying that no apology is required now because Tania felt Key looked bored board (and just as flaky as Gib) ??

    • mickysavage 8.3

      Why? That particular case is such a colossal beat up. The right’s attempt to somehow link Cunliffe with the offender is a fascinating attempt to smear.

      There is no evidence that I can see that Key is somehow implicated in the incident. That’s what the inquiry will tell us.

      Um no it wont. The terms of reference are clearly aimed at the actions of officials only and the PM’s actions will not be reviewed.

      The full TOR are at http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/1407/Ministerial_Inquiry_Terms_of_Reference.pdf

      • Tracey 8.3.1

        Even Mccully is not s scrutinised and he is the boss

      • One was Pete 8.3.2

        Ok, I will bite. It is no more a beat up than the Billingsley fiasco (in the sense that it was completely mishandled by persons as yet unknown).
        I actually don’t blame DC for meeting this fellow (as I have said elsewhere). I have met him and he is obsessed with sex, and a has very large ego. He would have no trouble getting through doors others couldn’t. Having said that it appears DC did know about his situation, and following the apology, and the ‘rape culture’ stuff, it wasn’t ideal.
        As I said I don’t think he should apologise, but on my rating scale that is worse than Key’s ‘supposed misdemeanour’.
        I don’t know the details of the Billingsley incident, and I suspect most here don’t either. I am totally in favour of stronger victims rights and have every sympathy for this woman. Calling on the PM to apologise for a bureaucrat who went against directives is a bridge too far for me. So is the politicising of this alleged incident.
        I have no problem with the terms of reference being aimed where they are. Where is the evidence that leads you to so stridently call for an apology.

    • framu 8.4

      umm pete

      • “I see that there is now comment out there that DC knew the identity of the sex offender he met with last week.”

      are you saying DC knew who he was meeting or he knew they were a sex offender?
      knowing the identity of someone your meeting isnt really that surprising – in fact its bloody ordinary

      “I don’t believe Key needs to apologise to Tania B because she ‘thought he looked bored”

      thats not why he should apologise – why are you making stuff up?

      “There is no evidence that I can see that Key is somehow implicated in the incident.”

      well apart from being the head of the govt that dropped the ball

      “The politicising of this alleged crime will not help the legal process.”

      that happened when the current govt knew what was happening but kept quiet right up till the media started sniffing around

      Look – we know that MFAT and by extension the govt messed up – why are you and others looking elsewhere so desperately?

    • McFlock 8.5

      I see that there is now comment out there that DC knew the identity of the sex offender he met with last week

      That’s no surprise. Tory fucks have been spreading lies about anyone who is possibly left wing for years.
      Hell, look at the rest of your comment.

  9. A VOTER 9

    Maybe Suckeyes Key feels that the recent events in the middle east and the Ukraine are far more important for us,ie the need to put our focus on the world stage rather than deal with the fact the he has admitted that we are powerless to do anything to affect a crime committed by an official of another govt in this country
    Focus on the war at home John and stop trying to pull votes, 4milion people dont need to drawn into a situation that is the responsibility of the US Britain Europe and anyone else who has supported Israeli Zionism, Oh is that us too!!

  10. Ennui 10

    As a man, on behalf of a fellow man (John Key) who seems incapable of both responsibility and empathy, I would like to apologise to Tania. Please Tania, do not expect any more from the idiots at National, they are incapable of “manning up”.

  11. framu 11

    keys change on the apology has much more to do with TB publicly outing herself and then having the nerve to stick it to key and McCully than anything else

    keys reaction is nothing more than spite at being caught – what a grown up!

    • fender 11.1

      Yep, he might think he’s a tough assassin with a smile but underneath he’s like a sulking child after being told to clean his room.

      • vto 11.1.1

        +1

        or being told to go and say sorry to the girl next door for being an arsehole to her

      • Ennui 11.1.2

        Is’nt that classic psychopath behavior?

        • fender 11.1.2.1

          Yeah but apparently around 50% of eligible voters are happy to have one as PM. God help us all.

          • Tracey 11.1.2.1.1

            I wonder how many know, afterall nats and their accolytes have worked hard to make dishonesty yawn factors, for good reason.

      • Tracey 11.1.3

        A smiling assassin in business is someone who culls staff without a second glance. How do the resignations and demotions over the past six years compare with other govts at two terms I wonder?

    • Rodel 11.2

      Good article by Michele A’Court in Wednesday’s Press. ‘The Rules For Women’-page A10
      She says”:
      …a victim who who appears confident, articulate and certain of things. That feels inappropriate somehow, right? We know what a victim should look like. And it shouldn’t be stronger and smarter and braver than us. That makes us uncomfortable.”

  12. john 12

    That Key should appologise publicly for looking “disinterested” is absurd. During his holiday he talked to the Malaysian leader so it’s clearly being taken seriously.

    It’s just as absurd as calls for McCully to resign over something he wasn’t even told about.

    The whole alleged rape issue has obviously been hijacked to score political points against people who had virtually nothing to do with the problem in the first place, and were not even informed of it until later.

    Which is shallow, unethical, disingenuous, and offensive in itself. Most people can see that, which is why National didn’t take a hit in the polls over this issue – in fact just the reverse.

    • fender 12.1

      Well that’s weird because on July 3rd Key said he was “outraged by the way the case had been handled” when asked about the seven week period of inaction.

      I guess some shit like Slater advised his mate Key that staunch red-blooded males don’t mind woman being treated like shit.

      • john 12.1.1

        You just proved my point. Key didn’t treat her like shit. A Malaysian diplomat did, allegedly.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.1.1

          Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.”

          Key just proved Fender’s point.

        • fender 12.1.1.2

          YES! the diplomat DID treat her like shit (allegedly).

          Then McCully, Key and MFAT continued the shit treatment by trying to sweep it under the carpet and doing NOTHING for weeks.

          • john 12.1.1.2.1

            For Key to do something he would have to have known there was a problem.

            He could rightfully expect McCully to tell him if there was a problem.

            For McCully to do something he would have to have first known there was a problem.

            He can rightfully expect the head of Mfat to inform him if there were any issues with the case.

            The head of Mfat didn’t tell him, because the problem was even kept secret from him.

            Which shows that scoring of political points before the election is a significantly higher priority for critics than bringing the diplomat to face justice.

            Which is why it is so shallow, disingenuous and offensive.

            • Tracey 12.1.1.2.1.1

              john

              Dont you have a GCSB meeting to attend and later deny attending?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.1.2.1.2

              You just don’t get it do you. You pay lip service to responsibility, and that’s where it ends.

              Key owes an apology as the head of the organisation that screwed up so badly. McCully felt an apology to Key was more important than to the complainant and is responsible for that, not to mention his lack of follow-up.

              But you don’t believe any of that, you believe that the thing to do is finger point and duck for cover. It’s contemptible.

            • fender 12.1.1.2.1.3

              McCully and Key were informed about the incident soon after it occurred, they then spent weeks sitting on their hands in the hope it would all blow over. This is offensive and Keys initial assurance he would apologise when he knew the identity of the victim has been proven to be disingenuous.

            • Tracey 12.1.1.2.1.4

              So you back an enquiry that includes Key?

              Outside of tourism and secret services do you attribute any successes of this govt to key and his leadership?

              You also overlook that key was happy to chest beat about working hard to get the guy back… Why didnt he pass all questions over to mccully?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2

      Funny, you don’t seem to know the reasons Key and McCully have been criticised. Do you think such ignorance makes you look foolish or dishonest?

  13. Tarkwin 13

    I don’t think key should apologise – he has done nothing wrong. Tania Billingsley say’s he looked bored and uninterested. That is an opinion, nothing more. Apart from that Cunliffe keeps apologising and look where he is in the polls.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1

      What is it Key is being asked to apologise for? Is it looking bored? No, it isn’t. So the question is are you ignorant or dishonest?

      I’m picking dishonest.

    • framu 13.2

      “Tania Billingsley say’s he looked bored and uninterested. That is an opinion, nothing more. ”

      could one of you drop kicks explain where your getting this idea from?

      the only people saying key should apologise for looking bored is you lot

      cmon righties – challenge issued, ball is in your court. Explain yourselves.

      • john 13.2.1

        framu says “could one of you drop kicks explain where your getting this idea from?”

        It came from Tania Billingsley. She said the Prime Minister looked bored and disinterested and he should apologise.

        She also said if McCully and Key blamed the Mfat official for the mistake (the one the Mfat official made) then McCully and Key should both resign.

        The shift of blame from someone who stuffed up to someone who had nothing to do with it, may be explained by someone who has allegedly been attacked and is understandably very angry and just someone to blame for what happened to her. Her alleged attacker is out of the country and the person whose stuff up allowed his to leave is anonymous.

        But others are just diving into the sewer to try to use the alleged rape to score political points.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.2.1.1

          Did she say he should apologise for looking bored? No.

          If he and Mr Key are so intent on pinning incompetence on a ministry official and
          solving this incompetence with job loss, then I’ll expect to see their resignations handed in any day.

          If you stop lying about it you might be able to discuss it like an adult. I doubt you can.

        • freedom 13.2.1.2

          Dear John

          On 3 July, when Ms Billingsley’s name was not in the public domain …….
          Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “ Yes,

          Key is not being asked, in this instance, for an apology regarding the comments made by Tania Billingsley. He is being reminded about his own statement saying he would apologise, a comment made before Tania Billingsley’s name was public.

          Comprehension just isn’t your thing is it?

          • Tracey 13.2.1.2.1

            You have to pass it all thru the slater sewer cos thats where these nongs are getting their defence of the liar in chief from.

            Then key cuts and pastes two statements from the victim together and it becomes he wont apologise to tania cos she says he looked bored and should apologise.

            The nats must laugh at how easy these folks are to fool.

        • Tracey 13.2.1.3

          ” Since my assault I feel that people have been assuming that my idea of justice is
          to have Rizalman found guilty in a New Zealand court. While it is an important
          part of justice being done, my main reason for wanting this is not for my own
          sense of satisfaction but to keep other women safe.
          I don’t want anyone to have to go through what I have gone through. And if my
          idea of justice means ensuring the safety of women and others, then it cannot
          stop at the prosecution of this man. Violence does not occur in a vacuum. There
          are very real reasons why sexual assault is happening in our country every day.
          This is because our society normalises, trivialises and in both obvious and subtle
          ways condones rape. This is called rape culture.
          We have seen this rape culture reflected in our own government’s response to my
          assault. It only became a matter of importance that was properly addressed when
          it started to inconvenience those in power. When I saw my assault being reported
          in the media it was primarily men given the authority to speak on it, when, apart
          from the police, it was women who were doing the incredibly hard job of
          supporting me, listening to me and helping me begin to heal.
          Rape culture is in the reaction and words of our Prime Minister. John Key recently
          questioned David Cunliffe’s sincerity over his comments that preceded a speech
          in support of Women’s Refuge. It genuinely makes me wonder if he has watched
          any of his responses to what happened to me. I think if he had, he wouldn’t be so
          quick to question the sincerity of others – not only this, but his reaction to Mr
          Cunliffe’s speech, the ever-present, knee-jerk reaction “not all men”.
          It disgusts me as someone in the midst of trying to begin recovering from my own
          attack to see that he, as Prime Minister of this country and therefore responsible
          for the wellbeing of its people, is yet another person who cannot seem to
          understand that things are so bad that survivors of sexual violence and women in
          general, for their own safety are forced to view all men as threats.
          And when I talk about survivors I’m talking about, at bare minimum, a quarter of
          women alone in this country. Your discomfort at hearing the realities of rape
          culture is not more important than the struggle of people trying to survive and
          recover from the effects of rape culture. Why do we have someone with so little
          understanding of the reality of oppression running this country?
          Murray McCully – not only has watching and reading his response to my attack
          been incredibly hurtful and frustrating, I have also felt embarrassed for him.
          Watching a grown man try to talk his way out of responsibility at what is
          effectively failure at his own job is a painful thing to see. I can’t believe his
          incapability to admit a mistake and try to fix it rather than pointing fingers at
          everyone else.
          If he and Mr Key are so intent on pinning incompetence on a ministry official and
          solving this incompetence with job loss, then I’ll expect to see their resignations
          handed in any day. Genuinely I would like Mr McCully to take responsibility and
          resign, not just responsibility at the incompetent handling of the diplomatic
          immunity aspect, in which it was clear to me that my experience or wishes were
          not even a factor to consider, but also responsibility for his insensitive and
          embarrassing public reaction, which for me was so painful to hear.
          As for the issue of diplomatic immunity, I guess I have a lot to say, but it can
          mainly be summed up in the question: How can we have a structure in place that
          is continually allowing people to get away with crime? Is it enough to say “that’s
          just how it is; there’s nothing we can do?” That was the message that was
          conveyed to me as soon as it was found out he had diplomatic immunity and then
          was the initial response of Mr Key when this information was made public.
          I would like to put a personal challenge to the Government. The fact that sexual
          violence is still so rampant in our society is proof in itself that you are not doing
          enough. Support the services and change the culture. Ask yourself what kind of
          message you are sending your country about how seriously you take sexual
          violence when you employ people with histories of sexual assault such as Alan
          Kinsella.
          I know when being challenged like this, it is easy to do a McCully and try to place
          blame and responsibility on everyone but yourself. But sexual violence is present
          in all parts of our society and therefore needs to be addressed by all parts of the
          Government. There have been recent actions towards addressing this but it is not
          enough.
          Only a few days ago Christchurch’s only rape crisis centre was forced to close
          down due to lack of funding. This in a city where sexual assault has risen 40
          percent since the 2010 earthquake. These services need sustainable, ongoing
          support. I experienced personally the everyday outcomes of lack of funding when
          finding out that the waiting list for counselling through the service helping me is
          two to three months. These services are doing their absolute best to support
          survivors with the funding they have but clearly it isn’t enough.
          All sorts of people in our country are victims of sexual assault – not only women
          but men, people of other marginalised gender identities, children, queer people,
          people in our varied ethnic and cultural communities, people with disability. Not
          only do we need more funding in general around ending violence, we also need to
          acknowledge and support the need for specialist services for all survivors in all
          different communities. In what I have been speaking about I do not want to
          dismiss these people’s experiences, but I can only speak from my own.
          I want an accountability that is not just about legal prosecution. This is effectively
          putting an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, and statistically in 99 percent of
          these cases it is an ambulance that won’t even work. I want an accountability that
          is going to stop sexual violence in this country. I wouldn’t wish my experience or
          that of other survivors on anybody and if the Government really wants justice to
          be done then they need to properly address rape culture in our society and work
          on stopping sexual violence, not just reacting to it.
          I shouldn’t feel that I need to put my face on television just to get this message
          across. People have been saying these things for a long time and yet so much is
          still not being addressed because the Government is the one distributing the
          funding and they seem to not take seriously the magnitude of the issue of sexual
          and domestic violence in our country. This is fairly obvious when they are
          committed to putting $80 million towards creating new banknotes just to “stay
          ahead”, yet years of work and pressure from those trying to fix these problems
          has resulted in only around 10 million eventually being granted. It may sound like
          a lot but considering the enormity of the issues and the already lacking funding I
          don’t think it is anywhere near enough.
          What has happened to me, while horrible, is yet another sexual assault in a
          seemingly never-ending stream. How can I look at what has happened to me
          without looking at the violence endured by so many people I know? Not one of
          these people in my life has ever had any kind of legal justice. They, along with 99
          percent of sexual assault survivors, must find their own ways to get closure and to
          keep going. I think it’s important to acknowledge the bravery and strength of any
          person who has experienced something like this, whether they have managed to
          mostly heal and carry on, or whether they are struggling. Any kind of survival
          post-assault is courageous.
          I would also like to take this space to let Rizalman’s family know that I am thinking
          of them and that I hope they are being supported. I can’t even begin to imagine
          how hard the last couple of months must have been for them as well.” tania billingsley

  14. McGrath 14

    Key didn’t cause the issue directly, so he has nothing to apologise for.

    • framu 14.1

      oh for fucks sake

      fender 12.1.1.2.1.3
      23 July 2014 at 12:45 pm

      “McCully and Key were informed about the incident soon after it occurred, they then spent weeks sitting on their hands in the hope it would all blow over. This is offensive and Keys initial assurance he would apologise when he knew the identity of the victim has been proven to be disingenuous.”

  15. Tarkwin 15

    As someone said earlier, whoever is responsible at Mfat should be fired. I think this is a serious stuff up that should be fixed not politicised. John Key should have known nothing about this, and rightly so. Look what’s happened in imigration when politicians from all sides have got involved, nothing but a disaster.

    • framu 15.1

      and refusing to admit that McCully and key are invovled in this stuff up is YOU politicising things

      remember the whole MFAT restructure? – the issue stems from that and key and McCullys lax leadership

      • john 15.1.1

        framu says “and refusing to admit that McCully and key are invovled in this stuff up is YOU politicising things”

        Admit what?

        You don’t have a single shred of evidence to show they even knew about the Mfat stuff up until the diplomat was gone.

        Not a single shred. If you did, you could show us it. But you can’t, so we can only assume you’re making up total b/s.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1.1.1

          Is that what McCully is being asked to apologise for? No. When you stop lying you’ll be able to discuss the issue in good faith, and you lack the ability.

        • framu 15.1.1.2

          “McCully and Key were informed about the incident soon after it occurred, they then spent weeks sitting on their hands in the hope it would all blow over.”

          do you dispute this john?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.2

      Key demands all information come to him, he calls it “no surprises”. So much for your bullshit assertions, and that’s two lies in two comments from you.

      Yes, the National Party’s rich investor immigration policy is an incompetent and corrupt mess, and so are they.

    • meconism 15.3

      Then lets sack the Immigration Minister and the Police Minister and the Minister in charge of the SIS then, easy, get rid of them their departments are a fucking shambles, down the road with them all. Lets do that Tarkwin, and the less said about the stupid and violent woman that currently runs the Education Portfolio the better ay?

      • Murray Olsen 15.3.1

        I like the way you think, but don’t stop there. The ministers for WINZ, Christchurch, and housing also need to go. Finance is a bit of a mess too – he can go. Actually, the whole lot can bugger off, and will at the elections.

  16. McFlock 16

    Three separate tory handles all repeat variations of the lie that people want Key to apologise for “looking bored / disinterested / uninterested”.

    It’s almost as if they can’t think for themselves, and instead get their talking points from a single source. What a bunch of sad little fucks they are.

    • john 16.1

      That source is Tania Billingsley – you remember – the one who the story is actually about. And who is the person actually asking Key for the apology.

      • McFlock 16.1.1

        simple resolution then – cite and I’ll retract the claim it is a lie.

        All your 2:01pm comment has done is tell me that someone whom I believe to be an unimaginative liar has made an unsubstantiated assertion. You have provided no new information.

        • john 16.1.1.1

          “Prime Minister John Key says he will not personally apologise to the victim of an alleged sexual attack involving a Malaysian diplomat, after she accused him of appearing bored and unconcerned with her case.”

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11296911

          Here exact quote, word for word was that she accused the Prime Minister of “looking bored and annoyed at having to be talking about it”

          • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1.1.1

            I just remember the first, the very first, thing I watched on it, and just seeing him looking bored and annoyed at having to be talking about it and just saying there’s nothing that we can do pretty much. ‘Oh it sucks but it is what it is.’ And that’s what I was getting. I don’t feel from him any sincerity in his concern for me.

            and

            If he [McCully] and Mr Key are so intent on pinning incompetence on a ministry official and solving this incompetence with job loss, then I’ll expect to see their resignations handed in any day. Genuinely I would like Mr McCully to take responsibility and resign, not just responsibility at the incompetent handling of the diplomatic immunity aspect, in which it was clear to me that my experience or wishes were not even a factor to consider, but also responsibility for his insensitive and embarrassing public reaction, which for me was so painful to hear.

            and

            …he, as Prime Minister of this country and therefore responsible for the wellbeing of its people, is yet another person who cannot seem to understand that things are so bad that survivors of sexual violence and women in general, for their own safety are forced to view all men as threats.

            Is that enough to stop your dishonest quote-mining? I doubt it.

            • srylands 16.1.1.1.1.1

              They are all stupid, ignorant statements. The Prime Minister is not responsible for the well being of all New Zealanders. I would be bored and annoyed too. It does suck and there is nothing that can be done. It is called diplomatic immunity and it was always going to apply. The rest is all window dressing.

              • Tracey

                The families of pike river know this only too well, and yet Key washappy to milk the political gain from his crocodile tears for the families of pike river and the families of christchurch and kaiapoi… Just another day trading currency.

              • McFlock

                The Prime Minister is not responsible for the well being of all New Zealanders.

                What is he good for then?

                I would be bored and annoyed too.

                Yes, because you are a pointless waste of space like Key.

                It does suck and there is nothing that can be done. It is called diplomatic immunity and it was always going to apply.

                No, no it wasn’t. That’s one of the many ways the government fucked up this case, as trhe Malasians were prepared to waive diplomatic immunity from the very start. Your neoliberal superment in cabinet have fucked MFaT so badly that the ministry couldn’t even clearly say “we want this guy to see a NZ courtroom”.

                The rest is all window dressing.

                Oh, fuck off to somalia. Or at least keep your australin nose out of NZ affairs.

                • Tracey

                  Its odd that someone would think that cos they would also have no consideration for the victim of an alleged rape despite their govt tryong to sweep it away, is a defence of some sort.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                “…for the good management of the affairs of New Zealand…”

                Of course oaths mean nothing to you people, do they? There’s no responsibility like personal responsibility, eh.

                • Tracey

                  Personal responsibility only applies to beneficiaries.

                  • srylands

                    Yes well you would say that as an Epsom supporter of the Green Taliban. Perfect Epsom Girls chardonnay socialist.

                    What part of diplomatic immunity do you not understand?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Ugly S Rylands attacks women who threaten his feeble masculinity. What a winner.

                    • Tracey

                      Diplomatic immunity prevents john key from delivering the apology to tania billingsley he promised her on 3 July? It is an original notion slylands, ignorant, unfounded and dense, but original nonetheless.

              • freedom

                Let’s play blame the public servant


                19 days and counting
                as much as you want it to, the question doesn’t just disappear srylands 🙂

                one of these books might help your answer

              • tricledrown

                Srylands legislation had changed around diplomatic immunity years ago when serious crimes such as attempted rape nullify diplomatic immunity!
                This was caused by nationals cuts to Mfats budget you pay low wages you get less skilled officials!
                ie lawyers at Mfat would be on much lower remuneration than in the private sector.
                The Buck Stops With mysogiKEY!

          • wtl 16.1.1.1.2

            “Prime Minister John Key says he will not personally apologise to the victim of an alleged sexual attack involving a Malaysian diplomat, after she accused him of appearing bored and unconcerned with her case.

            This quote is from Isaac Davison, the person who write the article, not Tania Billingsley.

            Here exact quote, word for word was that she accused the Prime Minister of “looking bored and annoyed at having to be talking about it”

            Yes, she did say this. But I can find no quotes from her in recent articles or her statement saying that Key should apologise for “looking bored”. Your comment at 16.1 that “Tania Billingsley…is the person actually asking Key for the apology” is therefore factually incorrect.

          • Tracey 16.1.1.1.3

            “Since my assault I feel that people have been assuming that my idea of justice is
            to have Rizalman found guilty in a New Zealand court. While it is an important
            part of justice being done, my main reason for wanting this is not for my own
            sense of satisfaction but to keep other women safe.
            I don’t want anyone to have to go through what I have gone through. And if my
            idea of justice means ensuring the safety of women and others, then it cannot
            stop at the prosecution of this man. Violence does not occur in a vacuum. There
            are very real reasons why sexual assault is happening in our country every day.
            This is because our society normalises, trivialises and in both obvious and subtle
            ways condones rape. This is called rape culture.
            We have seen this rape culture reflected in our own government’s response to my
            assault. It only became a matter of importance that was properly addressed when
            it started to inconvenience those in power. When I saw my assault being reported
            in the media it was primarily men given the authority to speak on it, when, apart
            from the police, it was women who were doing the incredibly hard job of
            supporting me, listening to me and helping me begin to heal.
            Rape culture is in the reaction and words of our Prime Minister. John Key recently
            questioned David Cunliffe’s sincerity over his comments that preceded a speech
            in support of Women’s Refuge. It genuinely makes me wonder if he has watched
            any of his responses to what happened to me. I think if he had, he wouldn’t be so
            quick to question the sincerity of others – not only this, but his reaction to Mr
            Cunliffe’s speech, the ever-present, knee-jerk reaction “not all men”.
            It disgusts me as someone in the midst of trying to begin recovering from my own
            attack to see that he, as Prime Minister of this country and therefore responsible
            for the wellbeing of its people, is yet another person who cannot seem to
            understand that things are so bad that survivors of sexual violence and women in
            general, for their own safety are forced to view all men as threats.
            And when I talk about survivors I’m talking about, at bare minimum, a quarter of
            women alone in this country. Your discomfort at hearing the realities of rape
            culture is not more important than the struggle of people trying to survive and
            recover from the effects of rape culture. Why do we have someone with so little
            understanding of the reality of oppression running this country?
            Murray McCully – not only has watching and reading his response to my attack
            been incredibly hurtful and frustrating, I have also felt embarrassed for him.
            Watching a grown man try to talk his way out of responsibility at what is
            effectively failure at his own job is a painful thing to see. I can’t believe his
            incapability to admit a mistake and try to fix it rather than pointing fingers at
            everyone else.
            If he and Mr Key are so intent on pinning incompetence on a ministry official and
            solving this incompetence with job loss, then I’ll expect to see their resignations
            handed in any day. Genuinely I would like Mr McCully to take responsibility and
            resign, not just responsibility at the incompetent handling of the diplomatic
            immunity aspect, in which it was clear to me that my experience or wishes were
            not even a factor to consider, but also responsibility for his insensitive and
            embarrassing public reaction, which for me was so painful to hear.
            As for the issue of diplomatic immunity, I guess I have a lot to say, but it can
            mainly be summed up in the question: How can we have a structure in place that
            is continually allowing people to get away with crime? Is it enough to say “that’s
            just how it is; there’s nothing we can do?” That was the message that was
            conveyed to me as soon as it was found out he had diplomatic immunity and then
            was the initial response of Mr Key when this information was made public.
            I would like to put a personal challenge to the Government. The fact that sexual
            violence is still so rampant in our society is proof in itself that you are not doing
            enough. Support the services and change the culture. Ask yourself what kind of
            message you are sending your country about how seriously you take sexual
            violence when you employ people with histories of sexual assault such as Alan
            Kinsella.
            I know when being challenged like this, it is easy to do a McCully and try to place
            blame and responsibility on everyone but yourself. But sexual violence is present
            in all parts of our society and therefore needs to be addressed by all parts of the
            Government. There have been recent actions towards addressing this but it is not
            enough.
            Only a few days ago Christchurch’s only rape crisis centre was forced to close
            down due to lack of funding. This in a city where sexual assault has risen 40
            percent since the 2010 earthquake. These services need sustainable, ongoing
            support. I experienced personally the everyday outcomes of lack of funding when
            finding out that the waiting list for counselling through the service helping me is
            two to three months. These services are doing their absolute best to support
            survivors with the funding they have but clearly it isn’t enough.
            All sorts of people in our country are victims of sexual assault – not only women
            but men, people of other marginalised gender identities, children, queer people,
            people in our varied ethnic and cultural communities, people with disability. Not
            only do we need more funding in general around ending violence, we also need to
            acknowledge and support the need for specialist services for all survivors in all
            different communities. In what I have been speaking about I do not want to
            dismiss these people’s experiences, but I can only speak from my own.
            I want an accountability that is not just about legal prosecution. This is effectively
            putting an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, and statistically in 99 percent of
            these cases it is an ambulance that won’t even work. I want an accountability that
            is going to stop sexual violence in this country. I wouldn’t wish my experience or
            that of other survivors on anybody and if the Government really wants justice to
            be done then they need to properly address rape culture in our society and work
            on stopping sexual violence, not just reacting to it.
            I shouldn’t feel that I need to put my face on television just to get this message
            across. People have been saying these things for a long time and yet so much is
            still not being addressed because the Government is the one distributing the
            funding and they seem to not take seriously the magnitude of the issue of sexual
            and domestic violence in our country. This is fairly obvious when they are
            committed to putting $80 million towards creating new banknotes just to “stay
            ahead”, yet years of work and pressure from those trying to fix these problems
            has resulted in only around 10 million eventually being granted. It may sound like
            a lot but considering the enormity of the issues and the already lacking funding I
            don’t think it is anywhere near enough.
            What has happened to me, while horrible, is yet another sexual assault in a
            seemingly never-ending stream. How can I look at what has happened to me
            without looking at the violence endured by so many people I know? Not one of
            these people in my life has ever had any kind of legal justice. They, along with 99
            percent of sexual assault survivors, must find their own ways to get closure and to
            keep going. I think it’s important to acknowledge the bravery and strength of any
            person who has experienced something like this, whether they have managed to
            mostly heal and carry on, or whether they are struggling. Any kind of survival
            post-assault is courageous.
            I would also like to take this space to let Rizalman’s family know that I am thinking
            of them and that I hope they are being supported. I can’t even begin to imagine
            how hard the last couple of months must have been for them as well.” tania billingsley

          • McFlock 16.1.1.1.4

            John, please draw a line between key’s shitty response and what people are asking him to apologise for.

            hint: there isn’t one…

            On 3 July, when Ms Billingsley’s name was not in the public domain, Mr Key was outraged by the way the case had been handled.
            John Key.

            “I don’t know her name. Obviously it’s a matter of privacy, but I think there’s been plenty of public comments that would echo what I’ve just said,” he said.

            Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.”

      • Tracey 16.1.2

        Key said he would apologise to tania billingsley… First. She held him to it. Second. He has reneged.

        No wonder Nats are so hot on school reform, they assume todays youngsters are as illiterate as they are now.

  17. tarkwin 17

    I’m not a member of any political party and as I have said, this is a stuff up and needs to be fixed. I still can’t see how John Key can be implicated. The no surprises plan is obviously not working very well in plenty of directions. I think we should wait until the case goes to court before jumping to conclusions.

    • McFlock 17.1

      When a ministry is so fouled up that it sends mixed signals as to whether we’re cool for diplomatic immunity to be invoked, thereby allowing an accused criminal to leave the country, you don’t think the people in charge have any responsibility in the matter?

      • srylands 17.1.1

        How is the PM in charge of MFAT officials? Yes it does seem to be a debacle, but we should await the Whitehead inquiry report before passing judgement.

        Also the woman in question was very foolish in going public, aided and urged on by the Green Taliban. All she has done is provide an excuse for the diplomat to never return to NZ (which was never going to happen anyway – the guy is gone, and he was always going to be gone from Day 1.)

        Your headline “Just say sorry” is petty politics. Just as bad as the Green Taliban’s efforts with the alleged victim.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1.1.1

          No Ministerial responsibility in S Rylands’ world. Why is nobody surprised about that?

        • framu 17.1.1.2

          key is or isnt the PM who is in charge of the govt (the nz govt that is – not the one is kapati australia)?

          key did or didnt know about the issue before it went public?

          key did or didnt say he would apologise for the mess the GOVT put TB through before he knew her identity?

          SSlands does or doesnt think people who use public transport are icky?

          still waiting on your answers from a few weeks back wonder boy

        • Tracey 17.1.1.3

          The woman in question has a name. At least you editted out stupid.

        • McFlock 17.1.1.4

          How is the PM in charge of MFAT officials?

          The fuck-knuckle stupidity, it burns…

        • Murray Olsen 17.1.1.5

          Sure SSlands, victims of sexual assault should just shut up about it. I suppose that would be better for all your Tory mates that get accused and convicted of it. You are a sick and pathetic little misogynist. Your hero Key and his government appoint sex offenders to highly paid positions. Stop minimising rape. Your rubbish about politicisation by the Green Taleban shows that you are an enthusiastic supporter of rape culture. Even back in your home country it is being combatted, or at least was. Have I told you lately how much you revolt me?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 17.2

      What did McCully apologise to John Key for? Have a little think about that while you await the outcome of the court case.

      • john 17.2.1

        IF there is a court case, or even an extradition.

        The hijacking of this case for political purposes has jeopardised both the extradition and the court case.

        “The New Zealand Herald quoted Chris Moore, president of the NZ Law Society, as saying that media coverage of the case “may be coming close to harmful interference with the process of how we determine guilt”.

        Meanwhile, Warren Brookbanks, a law professor at Auckland University, was quoted as saying that “the defendant could be prejudged in the court of public opinion when he has no opportunity to answer or offer a defence to the allegations.”

        Brookbanks added that all the publicity meant “there will be real problems in getting an impartial jury”
        – See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/media-coverage-may-jeopardise-fair-trial-for-sex-assault-suspect-nz-legal-e#sthash.SvmzRmZg.dpuf

        • framu 17.2.1.1

          “What did McCully apologise to John Key for? Have a little think about that while you await the outcome of the court case.”

        • One Anonymous Bloke 17.2.1.2

          Yes, McCully’s incompetence and total lack of any sense of personal responsibility for his department is another National disgrace. No wonder he apologised to Dear Leader.

          I suppose given your craven drivel arguments here though, McCully isn’t responsible for anything and ought to have told Dear Leader to go fuck himself.

        • Tracey 17.2.1.3

          Except billingsley didnt speak out until she found out her govt was sweeping her alleged rape under the carpet.

          The apologists here can all say key is not mfat, but none of them are calling for mccully to go, or even be included in the enquiry.

          John Key loves to play the CEO of NZ whether it is photos with all blacks, golf with a president or bbq with a royal beneficiary, well taking responsibility is the other side of the same coin.

          So to the apologists, who refuse to see the broader issue comes from the sweeping under the table of an alleged rape by mr mccully and mr key, and that mr mccully believes apologisingto mr key is more important than apologising to the alleged victim and that mr key promised an apology if he knew her name… Fuck off.

          Ms billingsley may not have gone public but for that statement by mr key.

    • Tracey 17.3

      On july 3 he stated he would apologise to the victim if he knew her name. This week he refused to apologise to tania billingsley. THAT is one way he is implicated. It suggests his “outrage” on 3 July was faux outrage. He thought he could look like a man who cared and be free to mock Cunliffe for fronting up to sexual violence in NZ… He clearly didnt imagine she would reveal herself or the media would care. But he is just our leader, bound to highest ethical standards.

  18. Tarkwin 18

    Tracey, I think you will find the judiciary and the executive are clearly seperated in NewZealand. Once a complaint is made to police it must be acted on. The only political interference I have seen in this case has been provided by Jan Logie of the Greens, and let’s face it she’s never done anything for nothing.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1

      That’s the way, when Dear Leader makes you uncomfortable, attack a woman.

    • Tracey 18.2

      The reply button is your friend

      ..read the cabinet manual “highest ethical standards”. A PM saying he will apologise if he has a name, who then doesnt, is not acting to the highest ethical standards.

      • john 18.2.1

        You’re trying to use the alleged rape of a woman top score political points against someone who has nothing to do with it, and then you talk about “highest ethical standards” all in the same post.

        Talk about hypocrisy.

        • Tracey 18.2.1.1

          John

          i dont talk about highest ethical standards, the cabinet manual does.

          When mccully decided an alleged rape was not worth following up, HE politicised it. HE, as a rep of the govt, showed where HE places the alleged rape of a kiwi in his list of important things.

          When john key pretended to be outraged and apologetic to the victim, HE was politically point scoring. HE used a victim to make himself look caring.

          YOU still dont understand, from your posts on this thread, that he said he would apologise to her if he knew her name.
          And finally, sigh, the victim spoke out for reasons she has clearly stated. I am commenting on those reasons.

          Why do you think the PM promised to apologise to her if he didnt mean it?

          • john 18.2.1.1.1

            You’re deep in the sewer. An Mfat official likely stuffed up. His boss didn’t know because he wsn’t told. The boss didn’t tell McCully, so he didn’t know. Key wasn’t told, because McCully didn’t know.

            And you now use the rape to try to score political points against Key, when he had nothing to do with it.

            It’s gutter politics, which is why far from taking a hit – National went UP in the polls when this issue was headline news.

            • Tracey 18.2.1.1.1.1

              Why do you think the PM promised to apologise to her if he didnt mean it?

            • Tracey 18.2.1.1.1.2

              Since my assault I feel that people have been assuming that my idea of justice is
              to have Rizalman found guilty in a New Zealand court. While it is an important
              part of justice being done, my main reason for wanting this is not for my own
              sense of satisfaction but to keep other women safe.
              I don’t want anyone to have to go through what I have gone through. And if my
              idea of justice means ensuring the safety of women and others, then it cannot
              stop at the prosecution of this man. Violence does not occur in a vacuum. There
              are very real reasons why sexual assault is happening in our country every day.
              This is because our society normalises, trivialises and in both obvious and subtle
              ways condones rape. This is called rape culture.
              We have seen this rape culture reflected in our own government’s response to my
              assault. It only became a matter of importance that was properly addressed when
              it started to inconvenience those in power. When I saw my assault being reported
              in the media it was primarily men given the authority to speak on it, when, apart
              from the police, it was women who were doing the incredibly hard job of
              supporting me, listening to me and helping me begin to heal.
              Rape culture is in the reaction and words of our Prime Minister. John Key recently
              questioned David Cunliffe’s sincerity over his comments that preceded a speech
              in support of Women’s Refuge. It genuinely makes me wonder if he has watched
              any of his responses to what happened to me. I think if he had, he wouldn’t be so
              quick to question the sincerity of others – not only this, but his reaction to Mr
              Cunliffe’s speech, the ever-present, knee-jerk reaction “not all men”.
              It disgusts me as someone in the midst of trying to begin recovering from my own
              attack to see that he, as Prime Minister of this country and therefore responsible
              for the wellbeing of its people, is yet another person who cannot seem to
              understand that things are so bad that survivors of sexual violence and women in
              general, for their own safety are forced to view all men as threats.
              And when I talk about survivors I’m talking about, at bare minimum, a quarter of
              women alone in this country. Your discomfort at hearing the realities of rape
              culture is not more important than the struggle of people trying to survive and
              recover from the effects of rape culture. Why do we have someone with so little
              understanding of the reality of oppression running this country?
              Murray McCully – not only has watching and reading his response to my attack
              been incredibly hurtful and frustrating, I have also felt embarrassed for him.
              Watching a grown man try to talk his way out of responsibility at what is
              effectively failure at his own job is a painful thing to see. I can’t believe his
              incapability to admit a mistake and try to fix it rather than pointing fingers at
              everyone else.
              If he and Mr Key are so intent on pinning incompetence on a ministry official and
              solving this incompetence with job loss, then I’ll expect to see their resignations
              handed in any day. Genuinely I would like Mr McCully to take responsibility and
              resign, not just responsibility at the incompetent handling of the diplomatic
              immunity aspect, in which it was clear to me that my experience or wishes were
              not even a factor to consider, but also responsibility for his insensitive and
              embarrassing public reaction, which for me was so painful to hear.
              As for the issue of diplomatic immunity, I guess I have a lot to say, but it can
              mainly be summed up in the question: How can we have a structure in place that
              is continually allowing people to get away with crime? Is it enough to say “that’s
              just how it is; there’s nothing we can do?” That was the message that was
              conveyed to me as soon as it was found out he had diplomatic immunity and then
              was the initial response of Mr Key when this information was made public.
              I would like to put a personal challenge to the Government. The fact that sexual
              violence is still so rampant in our society is proof in itself that you are not doing
              enough. Support the services and change the culture. Ask yourself what kind of
              message you are sending your country about how seriously you take sexual
              violence when you employ people with histories of sexual assault such as Alan
              Kinsella.
              I know when being challenged like this, it is easy to do a McCully and try to place
              blame and responsibility on everyone but yourself. But sexual violence is present
              in all parts of our society and therefore needs to be addressed by all parts of the
              Government. There have been recent actions towards addressing this but it is not
              enough.
              Only a few days ago Christchurch’s only rape crisis centre was forced to close
              down due to lack of funding. This in a city where sexual assault has risen 40
              percent since the 2010 earthquake. These services need sustainable, ongoing
              support. I experienced personally the everyday outcomes of lack of funding when
              finding out that the waiting list for counselling through the service helping me is
              two to three months. These services are doing their absolute best to support
              survivors with the funding they have but clearly it isn’t enough.
              All sorts of people in our country are victims of sexual assault – not only women
              but men, people of other marginalised gender identities, children, queer people,
              people in our varied ethnic and cultural communities, people with disability. Not
              only do we need more funding in general around ending violence, we also need to
              acknowledge and support the need for specialist services for all survivors in all
              different communities. In what I have been speaking about I do not want to
              dismiss these people’s experiences, but I can only speak from my own.
              I want an accountability that is not just about legal prosecution. This is effectively
              putting an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, and statistically in 99 percent of
              these cases it is an ambulance that won’t even work. I want an accountability that
              is going to stop sexual violence in this country. I wouldn’t wish my experience or
              that of other survivors on anybody and if the Government really wants justice to
              be done then they need to properly address rape culture in our society and work
              on stopping sexual violence, not just reacting to it.
              I shouldn’t feel that I need to put my face on television just to get this message
              across. People have been saying these things for a long time and yet so much is
              still not being addressed because the Government is the one distributing the
              funding and they seem to not take seriously the magnitude of the issue of sexual
              and domestic violence in our country. This is fairly obvious when they are
              committed to putting $80 million towards creating new banknotes just to “stay
              ahead”, yet years of work and pressure from those trying to fix these problems
              has resulted in only around 10 million eventually being granted. It may sound like
              a lot but considering the enormity of the issues and the already lacking funding I
              don’t think it is anywhere near enough.
              What has happened to me, while horrible, is yet another sexual assault in a
              seemingly never-ending stream. How can I look at what has happened to me
              without looking at the violence endured by so many people I know? Not one of
              these people in my life has ever had any kind of legal justice. They, along with 99
              percent of sexual assault survivors, must find their own ways to get closure and to
              keep going. I think it’s important to acknowledge the bravery and strength of any
              person who has experienced something like this, whether they have managed to
              mostly heal and carry on, or whether they are struggling. Any kind of survival
              post-assault is courageous.
              I would also like to take this space to let Rizalman’s family know that I am thinking
              of them and that I hope they are being supported. I can’t even begin to imagine
              how hard the last couple of months must have been for them as well.” tania billingsley

              • infused

                Yes, keep google bombing. Get this post removed from google.

              • Ennui

                Fantastic post Tracey, Tania really calls we males out (justifiably so), and the culture so exemplified by Key.

            • McFlock 18.2.1.1.1.3

              Paragraph 1: Lie about the events.
              Paragraph 2: Lie about what the other person said.
              Paragraph 3: feign moral outrage.

              Stop lying. Key should apologise for how badly the government handled this case. Like he said he would.

              • Tracey

                Note that none of his defenders can actually address the topic of the post…

                Key offered to apologise if he knew her name. Victim revealled her name. Key refused to apologise. He lied. Again. To a victim of an alleged rape this time. Classy. And still they defend him.

                They have made it about everything except that.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 18.2.1.2

          Talk about not being able to construct an argument without lying. It’s been made clear to you over and over again what people want Key to apologise for and why, and yet you persist in these false assertions.

          Are you too stupid to argue substantively? I think so.

          • Tracey 18.2.1.2.1

            There is a recurring theme here…across a few of those defending key in this thread. It is an unhappy theme, but not surprising.

  19. Puckish Rogue 19

    Just say sorry John

    • Yeah I think we’ll let Cunliffe be the apoligist and Key can continue being the leader, people should always do what they’re best suited to
    • Tracey 19.1

      Why do you think the PM promised to apologise to her if he didnt mean it?

      Is it cos that is what he is good at?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2

      #teamkey are going to lose the election, and then he can continue to be Dear Leader in your nostalgic memories.

      • Puckish Rogue 19.2.1

        One good thing about Cunliffe is he makes me long for the days Helen Clark, Heather Simpson and Michael Cullen, there was no doubt who was in charge then

        • Tracey 19.2.1.1

          Why do you think john key said he would apologise to the victim if he didnt mean it?

          • srylands 19.2.1.1.1

            Fuck knows. What matters is that he should not have said it and he is not going to do it. He should just say that. With an annoyed and bored look on his face.

            People say things they don’t mean all the time. Especially drunks.

            • Tracey 19.2.1.1.1.1

              So writes an expert

            • McFlock 19.2.1.1.1.2

              Bit much to call our glorious leader a drunk. Nobody has made that allegation today.
              Just that he’s an unfeeling, lying prick.

              • Tracey

                Chuckle

              • srylands

                I was referring to Tracey, the chardonnay Epsom Girls socialist. Of course he is the most honest, lucid, and, importantly, popular Prime Minister New Zealand has had in decades. You can bleat all you want. You will still be bleating on the morning of 21 September and probably well into 2018.

                Another three years of thousands of bleats on The Standard about how John Key is a bad guy. Enjoy your life.

                • Tracey

                  Teaching your kids to lie their way through life as long as they are popular slylands?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Popularity is important. Ketchup is a vegetable.

                  Once upon a time the Right had wit; after all it was PJ O’Rourke who quipped that “celebrity is the toxic run-off of fame”, and this lot worship celebrity.

                  We need better wingnuts.

                • McFlock

                  Now you say Tracey is “the most honest, lucid, and, importantly, popular Prime Minister New Zealand has had in decades. ”

                  Fuck, SSpylands, this afternoon you’re almost as unintelligible as phil u. Bit of a wet lunch, was it?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2.1.1.1.3

              S Rylands hides behind his keyboard, but it won’t protect him. He pays lip service to polite speech then shits in his own mouth in public.

              He’s a parasite, who derives his income from touting faith-based pre-determined policy ‘arguments’ to willing buyers. He’s also a hypocrite, who extols the virtue of private enterprise then bludges off the tax-payer for his income.

              I have his number.

            • appleboy 19.2.1.1.1.4

              and you’d know all about that.

          • john 19.2.1.1.2

            The department and minister have apologised. Best to save apologising for cases when you’ve actually done something wrong.

            Otherwise if you apologise when you haven’t done anything wrong you come across as weak and disingenuous.

            • McFlock 19.2.1.1.2.1

              But Key said he should apologise. Now he refuses. That sounds disingenuous at the very least.

              • Tracey

                It seems such a simple question but whoooooooosh

                • srylands

                  I don’t know. Why do you say things you don’t mean?

                  You are focusing on the wrong question. You seem to have concluded that it is desirable he should apologise.

                  Regardless of what he said, it would be retarded for him to apologise. He would simply be doing untold more damage to a messy situation with no winners that has been politicised by your heroes the Green Taliban. Stop making trying to make childish political gains out of rape. As a female chardonnay socialist you should know better.

                  • Tracey

                    Are you posting as John?

                    Why on earth would a phone call to ms billingsley saying ” i am so sorry that mfat has handled this so badly” from mr key be politically damaging to him?

                    Stop pretending you give a shit about the victim when you dont. It is Key who said he would apologise and the victim has taken him up on tge offer.

                    Socialism, chardonnay nor political gains enters this.

                    Keep defending the indefensible slylands you just look more foolish with each post

                  • McFlock

                    It would be foolish of us to ignore the wise comments of “the most honest, lucid, and, importantly, popular Prime Minister New Zealand has had in decades. ”

                    As for the “politicising” the issue, what part of “diplomat” do you not understand?

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    As a parasite, dependent on politically tainted public funds for his income, S Rylands has no standing in any political forum, let alone this one. He sells fine-sounding arguments to Quislings, and that is the sole measure of his value: a policy tout for the reality-challenged.

                    Not content to waste his talents on transparent shite, he adopts a querulous, Gilmore tone; ‘Don’t you know who I am?’

                    Let’s seek out and destroy every single vestige of his toxic life’s work wherever it may be found: we’ll be doing the world a favour.

            • Tracey 19.2.1.1.2.2

              Is the question too hard John?

              John Key said he would apologise to the victim if he knew her name. She revealled her name which he now knows. Ergo he will apologise to her, but he says he wont.

              Why did he say he would apologise if he didnt mean it?

              To my knowledge you arent born with a limited number of apologies and when you have used them you can never apologise again.

              Why did he say he would apologise if he didnt mean it?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2.1.2

          Why don’t I find it surprising that a rape culture enabler pines for the good ol’ days of revolting misogynist attacks on the Prime Minister.

          • Puckish Rogue 19.2.1.2.1

            “Rape Culture” what a joke, NZ doesn’t have a rape culture or is this the best the left can come up with to try to gain some traction, almost as lame as the child poverty wail

            • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2.1.2.1.1

              Thank you for making my point for me. Trash will out.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Simply saying theres a rape culture doesn’t mean theres a rape culture.

                • Tracey

                  What would mean there was a rape culture puckish?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Which makes saying there isn’t extraordinarily asinine, yes it does.

                  However, I consulted Rickards Parker & Hales and they’ve confirmed that it’s perfectly ok for women to walk alone at night, no wait, stop the press, you’re in denial.

          • Tracey 19.2.1.2.2

            The speed of the denial will make your head spin… And it will come quicker than an answer to my question

      • infused 19.2.2

        Another screenshot…

    • McFlock 19.3

      if mccully and, frankly, most of cabinet are “best suited” to being ministers, the mind boggles at what they’re least-suited for.

      Hard to imagine that they could be more incompetent as rocket surgeons than they are as ministers.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 19.3.1

        Nope, if they were deployed as rocket surgeons I’m pretty sure they could wear balaclavas and threaten crash site investigators quite competently while unidentified people in uniform operate the diesel-powered saw.

        • Tracey 19.3.1.1

          They would say they were rocket surgeons but later be mistaken. Well Key would forget that he said it, and then say it was a misunderstanding, McCully would disappear for two days.

  20. Roy 20

    President Truman had a sign on his desk that said ‘The Buck Stops Here’. Somebody should make one for John Key’s desk that says ‘The Buck Doesn’t Even Slow Down Here’.

  21. appleboy 21

    Let me get the right whinging mindset right. So, in your world, oh, let’s say , in the business world where you right whingers are more comfortable, if an employee fucks up, senior management should not say sorry.

    Sexual assault is not serious enough in the right whinger’s mind for the boss to apologise for actions of the organisation. Leave it up to a line manager when it’s just trifling stuff like attempted rape?

    Well well well, BM is laid bare for all to see.

    • john 21.1

      So you think Key should be apologising for every serious police mistake, every serious ACC mistake, every serious hospital mistake, every serious CYFs mistake, and every time a teacher is done for abusing children, etc etc etc.

      • McFlock 21.1.1

        Key said on 3rd July that he should apologise.

        Now he refuses to.

        I definitely think that when a prime minister says they should apologise, they should apologise. This is not a difficult concept to understand.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.1.1

          “I apologise for misleading the New Zealand public when I said I thought I should apologise. I had a moment of empathy. It won’t happen again.”

        • srylands 21.1.1.2

          The response should be “Yes I said I would apologise, but I have reflected and that was retarded, so no I won’t be apologising. I am sick of this whole charade. The Green Taliban has beaten this up from the word go, and those pesky officials let us down. But the guy was always gone. Look up diplomatic immunity in Wikipedia. Now piss off.”

          I can think of someone who would be doing a lot better if he had applied that reasoning.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.1.2.1

            Green Taliban, S Rylands. Be careful what you wish for; I for one would support aggressive police action against climate deniers and rape culture apologists.

            Most of my green voter colleagues would recoil in horror, and I think ‘he hit me, so I hit him first’. Be careful what you wish for.

        • john 21.1.1.3

          The department and minister in charge have both apologised for the government.

          It’s blatantly obvious the bleating demands for personal apology from the Prime Minister when he hasn’t done anything wrong is no more than hijacking a rape case for political point scoring.

          A personal apology would be as fake, worthless and disingenuous as David Cunliffe’s apology for being a man.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.1.3.1

            The department and minister in charge have both apologised for the government.

            No. They haven’t. They made public apologies in the press without any contact with the complainant whatsoever. Just suspend your admirable* partisan loyalty for a moment and think about that. They didn’t speak to her at all. Wait, and take another moment to digest that little ulcer.

            *interpretations may vary according to ethics and appetite for ridicule.

          • Tracey 21.1.1.3.2

            Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.”

      • Tracey 21.1.2

        Not necessarily, today just these ones

        ” Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes,”

        Is english your second language John?

        • john 21.1.2.1

          So what? The dept who stuffed and the minister in charge up has apologised.

          The fact that you’re so desperate to the point of being totally anal about getting a personal apology from the PM about this case, shows that it has nothing to do with anything Key did concerning the case, and everything to do with an attempt to score cheap political points.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.2.1.1

            Liar. Neither Minister nor department head saw fit to contact the complainant before running to the media.

            Look into your wizened Tory heart and tell me you can’t see what’s wrong with that.

            • srylands 21.1.2.1.1.1

              I can’t see what is wrong with that.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                You’re no Tory.

                You’re a parasite.

                • srylands

                  “A Tory holds a political philosophy (Toryism) based on the traditionalism and conservatism originating with the Cavalier faction during the English Civil War”

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory

                  I have no idea what you are on about. No I am not a “Tory”. So what is your point? You are becoming unhinged from your efforts to politicise rape. Well done.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Parasites aren’t expected to comprehend ethical matters, S Rylands, so why don’t you just latch back on to the tax payer teat and feed.

                  • McFlock

                    Ausspylands, just how much of a fucking moron are you?

                    This is at least the fourth time you’ve claimed to be ignorant of what a “tory” is and had it explained to you. I’m damned sure that this isn’t even thefirst time you’ve quoted that fucking wikipedia article while missing the section of that page titled “current usage”.

                    as a sample: April. October. September.

                    Talk about obtuse. You never even passed primary school, did you.

                    • Murray Olsen

                      I’d say SSlands is dumb enough to think an A is a good result in a first year university paper. I suppose it’s an incredible achievement for a Tory. I would have been disappointed if that were all I’d managed, but then I’m not a Tory.

                  • tricledrown

                    5 Spylands .
                    Male abusers use the unhinged excuse to shift the blame to women victims you are a misogynist!

          • Tracey 21.1.2.1.2

            Just thought that honest Mr key could be taken at his word. Turns out he is no man at all.

            Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.”

      • appleboy 21.1.4

        No, not every mistake, just the serious ones like this where his minister has been incompetent (and don’t try and deny it you prat) and where he has said himself an apology is in order.

        The petulant Key obviously got his noise out of joint when the victim dared to speak out.

        Or perhaps the spineless poll driven Mr Key thinks after David Cunliffe’s apology all apologies are to be avoided.

      • appleboy 21.1.5

        AH John and BM are the same. Thought so. Spot the evil angry right whinging tone a mile away

  22. McFlock 22

    The sith lords are busy today.
    I guess for sociop@ths “sorry” is the hardest word to say (as well as understand).

    Off for at least a few hours – to all the lefties out there, try not to let the tory lies get you down.
    Stay staunch 🙂

    • felix 22.1

      They sure are putting a lot of time into something they insist isn’t important at all.

      They take those focus groups pretty seriously, eh?

  23. TeWhareWhero 23

    What a dilemma.

    A brown skinned Muslim man – a foreigner – is accused of attempted sexual assault on a young, attractive white woman. In the normal course of events, this would be the perfect trigger for a Rightwing moral panic, but the woman turns out to be an intelligent, articulate and politically aware person who goes public and makes a strong statement against the country’s culture of sexual violence AND accuses two powerful Rightwing politicians of incompetence and insensitivity.

    Just like Rightwing antisemites manage to temporarily subsume their hatred and fear of Jews in order to support Israel/USA in the Middle East, the Kiwi Amygdala Brigade has managed to temporarily subsume its hatred and/or fear of brown skinned people and Muslims and attacked the white woman – because she is perceived as being a lefty/greenie/feminist.

    (In case people aren’t sure about what the Amygdala Brigade is – its members do things like line up outside courts to scream abuse at and try to hit the vans carrying unpopular prisoners. They threaten to storm the court if an unpopular defendant is not found guilty or given the right sentence. They think Paul Henry is clever and witty. They think John Key is just an ordinary bloke. They stare at the orange juice container because it says “Concentrate’. Their gene pool has no deep end.)

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1

      Springbok Tourists.

    • john 23.2

      So to put your post more succinctly, you’re saying you don’t like bigotry and all right wingers are racist anti-Semites.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 23.2.1

        The links between racism, stupidity, and right wing dogma are more a field of study than anything particularly controversial; these well-documented traits are hardly constrained by anti-Semitism.

        Please try and keep up

        • john 23.2.1.1

          The world of a simpleton is so black and white.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 23.2.1.1.1

            No, there are plenty of other nuances – distended amygdalae, for example, and Piff’s findings about wealth and ethics.

            I miss the days when Right Wing arguments came with a modicum of intellectual heft, you still see flashes of it from time to time, though mostly it’s a procession of rote-learned talking points and balls-out bigotry.

            The response from some elements of the Right to this issue has been revolting and contemptible, business as usual in other words. If you don’t like that, I suggest you go and look for a grieving family to mock.

      • Puddleglum 23.2.2

        No, you seem to be misinterpreting.

        First, the phrase “Rightwing anti-semites” is not a claim that all right wingers are anti-semitic. Rather, it targets those on the right who are also anti-semitic.

        There is, of course, the historical record which establishes that most – but by no means all – anti-semitism and anti-Muslim rhetoric over the past century has come from parties and organisations of the right rather than the left.

        Second, if you were to succinctly paraphrase the main point it would be that this incident represents an apparent anomaly in reactions of many of those on the right of politics.

        In all features but the political fall-out for Key’s government, this situation is one that you would normally expect the right to side with the young, attractive white woman. Yet they don’t.

        Where is the Sensible Sentencing Trust in all of this complaining about how victims’ rights are being ignored in the system? Where are those who constantly remind us of how women are treated under Islam? Where are the claims about yet more evidence that people from non-Western countries are less civilised than Westerners?

        These sorts of claims have been legion on many previous occasions.

        Why the silence now? Where have those, frankly, vitriolic voices gone?

        The only explanation is that there’s a lot of politically-motivated tongue-biting going on by many on the right.

        • john 23.2.2.1

          That’s a lot of words which can also be paraphrased as “nonsense”.

          Most people would side with the alleged victim over the alleged attack.

          But no sane person I know would side with anyone using a rape to bash someone who had nothing to do with either the attack or the diplomatic stuff up, while not uttering so much as a word of criticism against those responsible.

          That shows without a doubt that concern about an apology getting from Key is totally fake and nothing more than muck rakers

          • One Anonymous Bloke 23.2.2.1.1

            Once again, McCully and Key have been criticised – rightly so – for their behaviour. You can’t address that can you? That’s why you resort to argumentum ad nauseam.

            Lies, John, you’re telling lies.

          • Tracey 23.2.2.1.2

            So when John Key said he would apologise to the victim, if he knew her name, for the bungled handling of her alleged perpetrator, he was lying and people just need to move on a forget that he lied, even though his lie may have been what prompted her to out herself, so that he could apologise to her.

    • Murray Olsen 23.3

      +1. Nailed the situation.

    • Tracey 23.4

      Perhaps she only went public because Key said he needed to know her name to apologise.

  24. Gordon Campbell is as succinct as ever:

    Key was being gratuitously offensive yesterday, and you have to wonder why. If ever there was occasion for one of those faux apologies – “I apologise if you happen to feel that way” – this was it. He could have chosen several different responses. So why this one? Clearly, he is annoyed at Billingsley, and has taken her comments as a personal criticism, as they were intended to be. Rather than accept that criticism as valid – and at the very least, as the response of a serious assault victim who honestly feels your response has been less than sympathetic – Key dismissed her concerns as unworthy of the remedy being sought.

    And,

    It really shouldn’t be kept out of the election campaign. Apparently, this is what that nice Mr Key thinks of Uppity Women who talk back and criticize him. The incident offers the public one of those rare glimpses into the person behind the ‘nice guy’ persona. Women voters in particular, may find his response illuminating. When a woman dares to find this man personally wanting, he will belittle her.

    • karol 24.1

      Sfwweeew… yes. A very sharp analysis. And he has identified Key’s Achilles heel – his own ego and desire to be top dog. And, underneath all the “nice” smiley guy stuff, it is quite a conventionally masculine form of ego.

    • srylands 24.2

      “Clearly, he is annoyed at Billingsley, and has taken her comments as a personal criticism, as they were intended to be. ”

      Of course he is annoyed. The criticism was a cynical orchestration by the Green Taliban to politicise rape.

      • Puddleglum 24.2.1

        The ‘Green Taliban’?

        I seem to recall that one of the ‘front and centre’ criticisms of the Taliban regime in the lead up to the invasion of Afghanistan was their oppressive treatment of women. Women, we were told, were firmly kept in their place.

        In fact, you could barely turn a page of a newspaper back in late 2001 without reading learned commentators intone about how, with the Taliban removed, women in Afghanistan would live safe and flourishing lives once set free from Islamic oppression. They would, at long last, have an equal voice, be able to become educated and, who knows, even be part of running their own lives.

        Now, what has been the tenor of many criticisms of Tania Billingsely?

        In various ways – and as Gordon Campbell suggests – her great crime has been to be ‘uppity’ and, in particular, not to know her place in not criticising the ever-popular John Key and his government.

        She has ‘politicised’ her predicament yet all the ‘advice’ she has received by way of criticism is that she should have kept quiet, kept her head down – worn a burqa of name suppression, as is only proper over such matters?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 24.2.1.1

          +1

          Well said.

        • Tracey 24.2.1.2

          Yup. The sad thing is BM, John, Puckish Rogue and Slylands don’t see that with every posting they have made in this thread they have reinforced the views expressed by Ms Billingsley and provided proof thereof.

          With each post they have just look more and more foolish

      • Tracey 24.2.2

        Can you show where the Greens forced Mr Key to say he would apologise to the victim, if he knew her name, for the bungling of his govts duty regarding her perpetrator?

      • tricledrown 24.2.3

        spylands you have outed yourself as part of the 5 eyes network who’s job it is to undermine democracy in New Zealand.
        You are pretty hopeless.
        Taliban oppress women .
        you are accusing a women because she has spoken out about a Muslim no less that attempted to sexually assault her as well as home invasion.
        you are shifting the blame thats your pathetic misogynist game its backfired badly you will have to go back to spy school and retrain or better still just refrain.
        you are a complete Dumbarse and give all men a bad name.

  25. vto 25

    Fuck me, the responses of john, srylands and BM in this thread are extreme. These commentators are outright dishonest.

    As for John Key – well for many voters this will be his defining moment. Betcha.

    He is getting near the peak of a third term and he aint gonna make it. He is going to fall at the pinnacle. He is going to lose it, as in blow his top, as he has here with Tania Billingsley. He is stressing methinks …

  26. Graham 26

    Lol
    I live in the non beltway non left wing world
    The world where public servants are seen as faceless individuals that whenever people like me run up against them service is not what we get
    It is entiley believable that a mfat employee didn’t do her job so why it’s the mps fault I don’t see it
    My view is shared by around 50% of the country
    Although I am in the 90% of the country that don’t support mr cunlife as a labour leader ( just like the labour caucus)
    Today after watching mr cunlife say sorry again( forgot what for )
    he said we are going to focus on the big things now!!
    The penny has dropped glasses of milk don’t matter now ,spend the next 10 days talking about this subject it’s what national is afraid of
    So please don’t throw me in the briar patch lol

    • framu 26.1

      OK graham

      understand this

      -McCully is rightly known as a micro manager renowned for having his nose in everywhere
      -McCully, under the direction of national party leaders (key and joyce would be in this group) started an MFAT restructure that was a utter failure to the point where the experienced staff left in droves

      so – would you think it too long a bow to draw to suggest that the stuff up is in fact linked to them?

      • Both key and McCully knew about the case but did nothing till the media started sniffing around
      • Both key and McCully tried to talk their way out of having any responsibility – despite McCully being the minister responsible
      • Key publicly suggested the public servant should think about quiting – despite the fact he has no mandate to do so, and employment issues are the domain of the ceo – not the minister and most certainly not the PM
      • Key said he would apologise if he knew TBs name
      • once TB outed herself and pointed the issue back at McCully and Key as being involved and responsible, Key has had a little pissy fit and reneged out of spite

      so – do you think this is acceptable behaviour for top level public officials who are paid big bucks to do this kind of b Grade, school yard nonsense?

    • framu 26.2

      “It is entiley believable that a mfat employee didn’t do her job so why it’s the mps fault I don’t see it
      My view is shared by around 50% of the country”

      explain how you know this graham – sounds like unsubstantiated bullshit to me

    • Tracey 26.3

      Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.”

      No one made him say that, he just never dreamed she would cast aside name suppression and come to claim her apology.

  27. reason 27

    Graham the National man, it’s reflects badly on yourself to start and finish your post with ‘lots of laugh’s’ ( or is it ‘laugh out loud ), when the core subject is assault, rape and sincerity.

    You also can’t count or understand statistics.

    That makes you creepy and stupid in my book.

    Two ticks for national from you then …………………….

    • fender 27.1

      Yeah Graham is so creepy he insists that it’s a female Mfat employee who “didn’t do her job”.

  28. Graham 28

    It was revealed 2 weeks ago that the mfat employee who delt with the Malaysian embassy and didn’t report to the CEO was a women
    Do keep up

    • One Anonymous Bloke 28.1

      Ministerial responsibility means pointing the finger at your staff? Key’s incontinent outburst gives grounds for constructive dismissal, this in a department senior members of which have taken to the courts already, to protect themselves from their employer. And won.

      If you think this has nothing to do with management, you’re delusional, and probably a liability at work, but you don’t really think that do you – it’s just your loyalty to your #team that makes you rewrite the entire structure of Parliament in your head.

      Do keep up.

    • Tracey 28.2

      Asked whether he would apologise if he did know her name, Mr Key said: “Yes, in so much that I believe that she shouldn’t have had to go through what she went through.”

      She now seeks that apology, freely offered by John Key…

  29. Sable 29

    No surprise. Keys is more concerned with the needs of rich foreigners than his own people. This government are a disloyal disgrace and they prove it again and again. Lets hope the public have enough sense to give the little creep and his cheesy cronies the boot in September….

  30. Mike 30

    A bit off topic, but I’d just like to say, after some consideration, Mr Cunliffe is indeed right, New Zealand males do need to say sorry.

    For too long, we have deluded ourselves that we are equal to the fairer sex. Women are more valuable than men, the majority of us could be replaced, with a few of the better of us kept for breeding purposes. We need to work harder to show that we are still needed.

    We have kidded ourselves that we are equal for far too long.

    We have used feminism to defile our women, and tell them that being an easy lay is to their advantage, that stooping so low is their right, and empowering. Women are far too precious to be treated as sex toys for men, men who have no intention of committing to them whatsoever.

    Right now, women serve in the armed forces, defending our Green Lands, while unemployed males use the taxes of these brave women to smoke weed and play Counterstrike, and other shooter games.

    Lets drop this False Masculine Bravado, epitomized by “Celebrities” such as Mike Hoskings.

    Sorry is the word we need to say. There’s no shame in saying sorry. The shame is if we do not.

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