web analytics

Key chucks his “lawyer” under a bus

Written By: - Date published: 10:04 am, May 2nd, 2016 - 125 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, john key, scoundrels, tax - Tags: , , , ,

Typical Key – PM denies giving lawyer info on trust changes

The Prime Minister says his lawyer misrepresented him when lobbying the Revenue Minister not to change the rules governing foreign-owned trusts.

Key has form on lying, you’d hope that his “lawyer” does not.

125 comments on “Key chucks his “lawyer” under a bus ”

  1. mickysavage 1

    In this case I would definitely trust the lawyer 😀

    Whitney has been in practice for decades. You don’t survive in the profession unless you are very accurate.

    • Magisterium 1.1

      I thought The Standard revealed Whitney isn’t a lawyer?

      John’s Key’s “lawyer” is not a lawyer

      • Hanswurst 1.1.1

        Baby steps here:

        1. “You don’t survive for decades” implies a period of time *in the past* during which “you” survived.

        2. “You” in this case refers to a generalised individual, represented by Mr. Whitney.

        3. The “profession” in the hypothetical, survivable instance is that of a lawyer.

        4. The link you provided assumes the fact that Mr. Whitney was, at some point in the past, a lawyer.

        5. The lobbying in question took place in that period of Mr. Whitney’s life during which he was a lawyer.

        6. Therefore your point is bullshit.

        7. No problem, I’m always happy to help out the phenomenally dense.

        • Magisterium 1.1.1.1

          mickeysavage wrote in the present perfect tense, using the form “has been in the profession” when he could have said “was” or “had been”. I guess mickeysavage has just misrepresented Mr. Whitney’s professional status.

          • dv 1.1.1.1.1

            WOW there is another pin head.

          • Hanswurst 1.1.1.1.2

            According to the link you provided,
            “If you provide any legal services without a current practising certificate you must not describe yourself as a lawyer, law practitioner, legal practitioner, barrister, solicitor, attorney-at-law or counsel. To do so is an offence under Section 21 of the Lawyers and Conveyancers Act”. It is entirely possible for Whitney to be “in the practice” of providing legal services so long as he does not describe himself as a lawyer (or provide services in a reserved area of law). We need better pedants.

          • Chris 1.1.1.1.3

            When RWNJs have said all they can…

          • Matthew Whitehead 1.1.1.1.4

            Are we getting into grammar, mein damen und herren? Alright, but you should have come prepared.

            That isn’t the present perfect. The present perfect is “I have survived ten years in this business.”

            That was a negated subjunctive with a connecting clause- “you [do not] survive ten years as a lawyer without being careful.” That implies that there were ten years at some point, but importantly, no indication of when. It doesn’t imply they still continue because there’s no “have” auxilliary verb. The sentence you’re acting as if you saw is: “He hasn’t survived ten years as a lawyer without being careful.”

            • Magisterium 1.1.1.1.4.1

              Can you read?

            • Hanswurst 1.1.1.1.4.2

              I find your efforts praiseworthy, but on the subject of grammar: 1. It’s “meine Damen und Herren”, with an “e” to agree with the plural nouns “Damen” and “Herren”, which, being nouns, are capitalised as written; 2. The verb in the sentence that Magisterium quoted (well, misquoted, but I misquoted mine a bit lazily, too, so I’m not one to complain) was “has been”, which is indeed the present perfect.

              Doesn’t change the fact that Magisterium’s feeble attempt at pedantry misfired on all cylinders, of course, and that any substantive point was so ham-fisted that it is unclear as to whether there actually was one in the first place. What an embarrassment.

    • whateva next? 1.2

      …and now how will Whitney respond if he has survived being thrown under a bus?
      “You don’t survive in the profession unless you are very accurate.”
      I hope so.

  2. One Anonymous Bloke 2

    When he says “I”, we can translate this in various ways: for example, “My office is not aware of the outcome of that meeting”.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      He was wearing his I am another person Hat at the time?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1

        Who cares what the mendacious wretch tells himself?

        • Mosa 2.1.1.1

          Where is Winston on this ?
          This is bigger than the Winebox !!!
          Key under pressure say MSM.
          Bullshit!
          Ask Helen Clark about pressure!

  3. framu 3

    i cant see what the lawyer would have to gain by telling a a lie about what the PM said,

    so – heres the test for any defending this – why would the lawyer lie? – what purpose or use does such an action have?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

      Are you serious? We know what they’ll say: “this is all a beat-up by Labour, who did it too”.

      And “technically he isn’t a lawyer so nyah nyah”.

      And “you have KDS, all you do is attack my Daddy”.

      We know it’s the Prime Minister who’s lying, just don’t expect Whitney to confirm that.

  4. dv 4

    Mind you Key is very sloppy in his speech and what he says.

  5. mickysavage 5

    I have just had a listen to the audio. Wow.

    A few interesting features about the interview:

    1. Key says the group went to see McClay. McClay actually went to see them. At Whitney’s office.
    2. Key says he was not aware of any changes to the regime at the time. I suspect Cabinet agendas are being scoured as I type this.
    3. He places full reliance on the tax lost if the foreign tax industry closed and nothing on the reputational damage being caused to New Zealand.
    4. Key sounds very tired …

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

      Early in the interview he says something to the effect of he’s not sure whether McClay knew Whitney was his lawyer. Later on, he admits telling McClay. Espiner sounds borderline contemptuous, and who wouldn’t?

    • NZJester 5.2

      Can IRD not give a more accurate level of actual taxes it has received from all these trusts?
      Are the trusties really paying taxes on the full money they receive or are they themselves taking advantage of the same system to also keep their money as tax free as possible?
      I wold be surprised if any government was getting more than a cent in tax on every million dollars flowing through these trusts.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1

        Their (the trusts’) NZ tax rate is 0%, so the IRD doesn’t need to know what they “earned”. That’s part of what makes them so useful to criminals.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2

        The trusts aren’t paying taxes – the lawyers administering them are and they’re probably* using similar vehicles offshore to avoid paying taxes here.

        After all, if you’re in the business of minimising taxes for others then you are going to avail yourself of it.

    • AmaKiwi 5.3

      +1

      nice work, Mickey

    • Sacha 5.4

      IRD estimates NZ’s foreign trust industry pays only $3m tax on $24m of income. Not much of a loss if it was outlawed.

      • AB 5.4.1

        That’s 12.5% – much lower than the top marginal rate of income tax. And these will be very high income lawyers and accountants.
        So how do they do that? Not via an option available to PAYE wage slaves.

        • alwyn 5.4.1.1

          Wouldn’t that money be the GST charged on the money that the foreign entities are paying for services received in New Zealand?
          Any lawyer care to comment on whether these services attract GST which has to be collected and paid to the Crown?

          • International Rescue 5.4.1.1.1

            It’s complicated, but given http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/additional-calcs/calc-spec-supplies/calc-zero/calc-zero.html#exportedservices, specifically under “Services supplied to non-residents outside New Zealand at the time the service is supplied”, I’d say the services are exempt. (Not a lawyer BTW).

            • alwyn 5.4.1.1.1.1

              Thank you.
              It does go on doesn’t it?
              Like you I am not a lawyer so I think I’ll just toss it into the too hard basket.
              I am not even sure who the services would be supplied to. Would it be a New Zealand resident trustee for example?

              • International Rescue

                It’s all so much speculation. That’s what’s making this all so humorous. Unless someone can provide an example of actual wrongdoing, and so far there hasn’t been any provided, this is going the same way as Helen Clark’s speeding to the rugby. Nowhere.

                • Well, I guess it depends on whether you consider offering money-laundering services to be “wrongdoing,” which in turn depends on whether you operate a model of ethics that goes beyond “it wasn’t illegal.” It’s reasonable to assume that most readers of this blog, and I suspect most NZers, wouldn’t hesitate to file “offering money-laundering services” in the category “wrongdoing,” regardless of whether it was legal or not. Many of us also find it anything but humorous.

                  • International Rescue

                    Yet still no actual examples of money laundering.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      No examples whatsover.

                      Apart from Onetai farm.

                      There is one example of money laundering: Onetai farm, and Operation Acacia.

                      Our examples are two: Operation Acacia, and Onetai Farm. Otherwise there is absolutely no money laundering in New Zealand.

                      Apart from Operation Flyer.

                      Shall we go on?

                      I note you failed to address whether you think offering money-laundering services is “wrongdoing”. Many cretins retain a moral compass, but not you.

                    • No shit, Sherlock? We’ve set up a foreign trusts system that’s perfect for money-laundering because officials in neither country know whose money is in the trust, and now we can’t prove that it’s being used for money-laundering because, uh duh-uh, we don’t know whose money is in the trusts. Maybe it would be a good idea just not to set up a foreign trusts system that’s perfect for money-laundering in the first place?

                    • International Rescue

                      “Apart from Onetai farm.”

                      You’re referring to the purchase of a block of NZ land, legitimately and legally by an off shore entity. That’s not money laundering, again you seem incapable of simple comprehension.

                      Money Laundering “Money laundering is the generic term used to describe the process by which criminals disguise the original ownership and control of the proceeds of criminal conduct by making such proceeds appear to have derived from a legitimate source.”

                    • For example, by making use of a foreign trust system that’s operating within a respected first-world jurisdiction but doesn’t require the criminal’s details to be registered.

                    • International Rescue

                      “For example, by making use of a foreign trust system that’s operating within a respected first-world jurisdiction but doesn’t require the criminal’s details to be registered.”

                      What criminal? I’m asking for some real examples. If this is so rampant, name some.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      You’re referring to the purchase of a block of NZ land, legitimately and legally by an off shore entity. That’s not money laundering

                      Please tell us that you have verified and audited the sources of money used by these “offshore entities” buying up land in NZ.

                      Otherwise, how can you tell that it is not “money laundering”?

                      The answer is – you can’t. You’re just talking out of a hole in your ass.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      What criminal? I’m asking for some real examples. If this is so rampant, name some.

                      I love how naive you are pretending to be.

                      Let’s provide $50M to set up a Government white collar fraud squad which has teeth, and then we can talk.

                    • International Rescue

                      “Please tell us that you have verified and audited the sources of money used by these “offshore entities” buying up land in NZ.”

                      I don’t have to do anything of the sort, because I’m not making the hysterical allegations. I’m calling bs on this, and I’m asking for actual hard evidence.

                    • International Rescue

                      “Let’s provide $50M to set up a Government white collar fraud squad which has teeth, and then we can talk.”

                      Claims are being made here of criminal activities. If there is evidence, lets see it. I’m calling BS on the lot until I see evidence.

                    • What criminal? I’m asking for some real examples. If this is so rampant, name some.

                      Sigh. To repeat my earlier comment:

                      “We’ve set up a foreign trusts system that’s perfect for money-laundering because officials in neither country know whose money is in the trust, and now we can’t prove that it’s being used for money-laundering because, uh duh-uh, we don’t know whose money is in the trusts.”

                      So, yes, you’re right – indeed I can’t prove that the country’s foreign trust services are being used for money-laundering by criminals, because not being able to prove that is the whole fucking point of the trusts.

                      Given the above, of more relevance is the question of what basis do we have for confidence that these foreign trust services couldn’t be and aren’t being used as money-laundering services for criminals? The answer to that question is that we have no basis for confidence, and that this lack has been noticed by overseas jurisdictions and by the IRD, but deliberately ignored by the government, and in fact the Prime Minister has taken steps to ensure a continued lack of any basis for confidence. If you’re happy with that situation, you’re a charlatan or a fool – there aren’t any third options.

                    • International Rescue

                      “So, yes, you’re right – indeed I can’t prove that the country’s foreign trust services are being used for money-laundering by criminals, because not being able to prove that is the whole fucking point of the trusts.”

                      No, it isn’t. Trusts can be broken, quite easily actually, and foreign trusts have disclosure conditions. You are swallowing a line that only the truly gullible would fall for.

                  • …foreign trusts have disclosure conditions.

                    They do indeed. And I expect there’d be various foreign governments interested to make use of those disclosure conditions if there was any way of knowing that any particular trust warranted investigation. However, the PM and his friends have ensured that no information that would help in that respect is available to NZ officials. Could be that no foreign trusts in NZ are money-laundering operations, could be that every single one of them is – we don’t know, which is actually the point.

            • Craig H 5.4.1.1.1.2

              I’m also not a lawyer, but used to work for IRD, and exported services are zero-rated for GST, so they don’t have to charge it to overseas clients, but can claim GST back on their GST returns i.e. they may actually get a refund on GST. All part of the service…

          • Tricledrown 5.4.1.1.2

            Financial services don’t pay gst.

            • Craig H 5.4.1.1.2.1

              At least some of the tax planning services won’t be exempt. To quote IRD:

              Services relating to initial planning fees, monitoring fees, evaluation fees and replanning fees are subject to GST.

              Services relating to implementation fees, administration fees and switching fees are financial services and exempt from GST.

              Source: http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/additional-calcs/calc-spec-supplies/calc-exempt/calc-exempt.html

              • Colonial Viper

                None of this guys clients pay GST FFS, except for purchases of Bollinger from the corner bottle store. And even then its probably going to be through their GST registered company or trust.

        • Nessalt 5.4.1.2

          seeing it’s a business, they are paying tax on profits of around $8.5m. pretty healthy margins.

    • whateva next? 5.5

      “4. Key sounds very tired …” or drunk?

  6. TC 6

    Oh my my the rats are starting to eat each other

    • Muttonbird 6.1

      Key’s next visit to the Antipodes offices will be awkward to say the least.

  7. NZJester 7

    Just by calling him a Lawyer Key is lying. The guy retired as a registered lawyer and can not legally be called one in NZ any more. This also puts him outside of some of the possible sanctions for any wrongdoing he might do as the guy running one of these trusts.

    • alwyn 7.1

      From what Sabine was talking about on this blog previously Key can say anything he likes.
      It is only an offence for someone to call themselves a lawyer if they aren’t but are actually offering legal advice. Thus Whitney could breach the law if he called himself a lawyer and he was giving legal advice but it has nothing to do with what Key can do or say.
      At least I think that was what Sabine was saying.

      • Sabine 7.1.1

        I, my dear, said fuck all.

        The law however says:

        ” “If you provide any legal services without a current practising certificate you must not describe yourself as a lawyer, law practitioner, legal practitioner, barrister, solicitor, attorney-at-law or counsel. To do so is an offence under Section 21 of the Lawyers and Conveyancers Act”. ”

        a link so you can inform yourself

        http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2006/0001/latest/DLM365726.html
        http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2006/0001/latest/DLM365730.html#DLM365730

        can we get better trained National Groupies, these ones seem to have reached their used by date.
        thanks.

        • alwyn 7.1.1.1

          For God’s sake woman I was quoting what you said because you seemed to know what you were talking about.
          I was crediting you with some knowledge of the matter.
          If you now say “I, my dear, said fuck all” I suppose I must assume that you really don’t know anything about the subject and that the quotations you give come into the category of things you know “fuck all ” about.
          Now in just what way does what I credited you with saying differ from what is really the case?
          ie Can Key say anything he likes without breaking any law?

          • Sabine 7.1.1.1.1

            then you say something like “Sabine quoted” which i did, but you do not put words in my mouth that i did not say, cause you see, I am not a lawyer, good man, and I actually do remember what i say……….when i say it and such, it’s the difference between me and and the Ladies and Gents of the National Party Stormtroopers. You guys are so busy shoveling shit up a mountain, you can’t remember who said and who quoted – it must be that Key-ism rubbing of on you guys.

            In fact, i repeatedly quoted the expert so that you and your mates understood that calling oneself or someone else a lawyer might actually be breaking the law especially of someone ‘resigned’ officially and is not Member of the Bar anymore.

            And to make sure you actually know where to look for the information i put some links up. Did you read them?

            And Mr. Key may want to consult a lawyer at this stage, one that is actually still allowed to practice law and can legally give advise as a lawyer. I think he needs one. And i also think he should consult a health official, these memory lapses of his are very odd, Reagan comes to mind.

    • Magisterium 7.2

      Just because you really want something to be the case does not make it so.

      • Whateva next? 7.2.1

        Unless you are of the 1%, in which case
        ” to want is to have, and to have is to want more”

    • Hanswurst 7.3

      I don’t think there’s a legal issue surrounding Mr. Key’s use of the word “lawyer” to describe Mr. Whitney. It only becomes a legal issue if Mr. Whitney attempts to present himself in those terms. Immediately, Mr. Key’s description of him as “my lawyer” raises substantive, rather than legal questions:

      1. If Mr. Whitney is not a practising lawyer, what services does he provide Mr. Key with that would lead Mr. Key to believe that he is currently Mr. Key’s lawyer?
      2. If he did not transfer to Antipodean for the purposes of working as a lawyer, why were Mr. Key’s funds held there?

      Attendant to those questions is the question of why Mr. Key’s money turned up there (and whether that was the only time he had used the firm for those purposes) if Mr. Whitney had, in fact, owned the company for a time and been associated with it for a couple of decades, rather than having transferred there recently as Mr. Key claimed.

  8. North 8

    Vintage Fake Man Key behaviour……..blame the underling. Is this prime minister unprecedented in all history with his high office imposing responsibility on anyone but him ? Seems that way. That is wilfully corrupt governance. Anything that goes*, goes.

    *can be got away with. Caricature of an amoral caricature.

  9. whispering kate 9

    Well he was named the Smiling Assassin for laying off staff en masse without any qualms so this must have been an easy task for him, betraying his supposed trusted confidante. Martyn on the Daily Blog had a great line this morning “the Great White Shark dead eyed ruthlessness ….” explains him perfectly. The man is lining himself up for the perfect fall from grace,

    • ropata 9.1

      Key knows the house of cards is getting shaky but he has made some fantastic contacts in the money laundering biz so his golden parachute is pretty sweet.

  10. John 10

    If this is the case Mr Key has an obligation to report the lawyer to the Law Society.

    • NZJester 10.1

      That will do nothing as the Law Society can do nothing to him as he retired as a registered lawyer in New Zealand and so is outside of their jurisdiction. They can not even give him a slap over the hand with a wet bus ticket.

      • Lanthanide 10.1.1

        Key says his lawyer misrepresented him in the email that was sent back in December 2014.

        They may be able to hold the ex-lawyer to account for something he did while a lawyer.

        The rules don’t work that way for IPENZ chartered engineers (as we saw with Alan Reay), but lawyers are a different professional body and likely have different rules.

  11. NZJester 11

    Just a reminder that Key was also in his time as a banker, meant to have been instrumental at helping set up Ireland as a Tax haven for his wealthy clients.

    • Jones 11.1

      It’s the only thing he knows how to do.

    • alwyn 11.2

      Where does that story come from?
      Do you have a link?
      I thought he was involved, in his professional capacity, in Forex dealing.
      He may have got far enough up the tree to have overseen people involved with trusts but I don’t think he would ever have done it himself.
      He would have been far to valuable to his employers in his specialist field.

      • Tricledrown 11.2.1

        Alwhinger Key made claims he set up Merrill Lynch Ireland.
        Then claimed to be head of Forex trading.
        Which encompassed all Derivatives and Ponzi loans.
        Merrill Lynch were selling ponzi loans at $38 for every $1 on deposit.
        Which John Key would have known.
        As all of ML dodgy Derivatives and ponzi loans were sold through Forex trading.

        • alwyn 11.2.1.1

          Oh dear, what foolishness.
          I suppose that I have to extend the question to you. You claim
          “Merrill Lynch were selling ponzi loans at $38 for every $1 on deposit.
          Which John Key would have known.”
          What is your evidence for the claim about this?
          What has any of this to do with John Key?
          Please reply with dates for his supposed actions.
          And do you even know what a “Ponzi” scheme is?
          And what does Forex dealing and derivatives have to do with tax havens?
          And if you are going to reply to me why don’t you comment on what I said?

    • Tricledrown 11.3

      Look how that turned out Ireland went belly up Due in part to Merrill Lynch with their Ponzi scheme $38 lent for every Dollar on deposit.
      False report to the Irish Govt allowing Merrill Lynch to make money out of Ireland’s Financial crash.

  12. Nick 12

    Classic ShonKey interview…. slithering for all he’s worth

  13. Paul Campbell 13

    David Slack’s tweet: “Fire service tells PM if they have to come and put out his trousers again this week he’ll have to pay a callout fee.” is particularly funny

  14. Myrtle 14

    Key’s voice was slurred in response to some questions this morning. It’s either a Crosby Textor coached thing to do when he lies, or he just doesn’t know he does it.

    • ianmac 14.1

      Plus a piece of gauze over his phone Myrtle, to blur his diction so that he say you mis-heard him.

    • DoublePlusGood 14.2

      Channelling the ghost of Muldoon

      • ianmac 14.2.1

        Probably since Key was a great admirer of Muldoon.

        • North 14.2.1.1

          Or so he (Key) claims. That’s the Boys’ Own political provenance claimed on his behalf. Rob’s Mob etc. Thumping mum’s kitchen table promising to be PM one day. Never been shown to have been actively engaged in politics however. Must be why no particular memory of his position on The Tour. Which makes the construct political provenance deliberate bullshit. It’s that or it’s the claim that he can’t recall is deliberate bullshit. Who woulda’ thought……?

  15. mary_a 15

    If Ken Whitney is being economical with the truth, then that automatically puts him in a position of being far more reliable and honest than his client/friend FJK.

  16. whateva next? 16

    “Key has form on lying, you’d hope that his “lawyer” does not.”
    It’s no excuse, either Key is lying and should be impeached, or his lawyer did “misrepresent” him, and should be charged.
    If I either lied, or misrepresented someone with such dire consequences (e.g caused the whole country lose it’s credibility), I would be straight to jail, and do not pass Go.
    Oh to have so little responsibility, and earn that much. except, I doubt I would sleep well at night.

    • Magisterium 16.1

      Key is lying and should be impeached

      Why?

      • North 16.1.1

        “Why?”. Ha ha ha !. Brill’ Mag’ !

        • Magisterium 16.1.1.1

          Maybe this is some use of “impeached” with which I’m not familiar.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 16.1.2

        The corrupt class are practiced liars, to others and themselves. Attempts to normalise Prime Ministerial lying are contemptible – is NZ a Banama republic?

      • whateva next? 16.1.3

        Not playing, thanks for asking though

  17. Chuck 17

    Ok…what you need to do now is somehow bundle up all the above conspiracy theories and bush lawyer advice into a package that the great masses can understand and actually look at and say its not bullshit from a handful of activists and die hard lefties.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1

      You mean like it’ll be a silver bullet, and you think silver bullets are what the Left is after because Matthew Hooton says so? Why can’t you think for yourself for a change, instead of making comments that rely on wholly imagined right wing drivel?

      Well, apart from the fact that your entire belief system is drivel.

      • weka 17.1.1

        I like how they think the likes of the editor of the NZ Herald is a die hard leftie activist.

      • Chuck 17.1.2

        Cold hard facts of the day = you are talking nonsense.

        Since you have brought up silver bullets OAB; Ask Mike Williams (former Lab president) on why he shot over to Australia on a “mission to find your silver bullet” is one example that comes to mind straight away.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1.2.1

          And that’s what’s happening here? Mike Williams hacked into Mossack Fonseca and forced the PM to personally enable money laundering services, and his story changes every day and one good mate ex-lawyer is officially sloppy, highly ethical and misrepresents his clients.

          Looks more like the death of a thousand cuts to me. Whatever you say though. Thank goodness he didn’t sign any charity paintings! Phew, that was a close one.

  18. North 18

    Let’s read David Cunliffe for John Key. Let’s read Mickey Savage for Ken Whitney. Can you imagine the howls of outrage from the likes of Alwyn and Chuck ? Got no morals those two. Mouthy but no morals.

    • Chooky 18.1

      +100…”Mouthy but no morals”…and out of ‘Alice in Wonderland’

      • Chuck 18.1.1

        And Chooky that’s why you are looking at 4 terms in opposition.

        I do take North comment on board…maybe I could be outraged if it was from a Labour PM…but without any proof (just like in this case) its just conspiracy theories which no one other than the beltway diehards would spend more than 5 mins on.

        • Chooky 18.1.1.1

          “just conspiracy theories”….there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest otherwise

          “looking at 4 terms in opposition”…more Alice down the Rabbit hole

          …you are sounding worried Chuck

          • Chuck 18.1.1.1.1

            Lets see then…

            Labour needs to get back into the mid 30’s (over a decent number of polls) before it becomes a realistic contest. And saying… but Winston will save us is not a strategy to rely on.

            • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.1.1.1

              I do think Labour needs to be clear over 30% for Winston to have a decent reason to go with them. 32% or 33% should do the trick.

              He will find it very hard supporting a party which got just 26% of the vote.

              • Sabine

                Labour does not have to go over 30. Full stop there.

                IF Winston wants to be in government he has two choices

                a. go with National
                b. go with the opposition.

                Winston Peters can pick a or b. There is no other option for him. But his choice has got nothing to do with Labour being at 30% or 28%.

                • Chuck

                  Yes it does matter for a bunch of reasons…that Labour need to be around the mid 30’s come election 2017 to have a chance.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1.1.2

          Yes, who cares that Daddy launders money, you can’t prove a thing!

          Personal responsibility dragged into the light again.

    • alwyn 18.2

      Well hullo you stupid little chap.
      Instead of just making up new bullshit about me why don’t you apologise for your previous lies? I’ve challenged you repeatedly to either put up or shut up about the lies you tell about me. When are you going to apologise?
      Come on be a man instead of a snivelling little brat.
      An apology or some justification. Speak up or shut up.
      Just to remind you here is the very simple challenge.

      John’s Key’s “lawyer” is not a lawyer

      • North 18.2.1

        Let’s go back to basics Alwyn…….where the bullshit started. Please tell us, finally, what your vaunted left wing provenance is, you know, the factor you identify as giving you special knowledge, authority. You never have coughed it up but you’ve dined out on it for a long time. The gratuitousness (lies) of a troll.

        • alwyn 18.2.1.1

          “your vaunted left wing provenance is”.
          No you stupid little fellow. I have never claimed to have any connection with left wing politics.
          It is YOU who claims that when you say things like “Alwyn’s bullshit claim to have been active in Left politics once upon a time” .
          I have never done that. It is entirely a figment of your warped little mind.

          You are the one claiming this about me. Well here is you chance. If you want to accuse me saying something it is up to you to show where I did it. Naturally you can’t because I have never done it.
          Prove that I have done so or apologise for the crap you have been uttering about me.
          Alternatively you could ask that you should be banned from this site because of your total inability to stop making unsubstantiated claims. I’m sure that such a plea by you, that you are addicted to lying and need to be stopped, might be treated sympathetically by the people who run it.
          Now, why don’t you own up.
          Admit you have been lying about me.

  19. Bobby Bobsta 19

    Heck alwyn… reads like one of your own is throwing you under the bus.

  20. North 20

    You’re losing it now Alwyn Troll……..your slide directly related to the startling measure by which Fake Man Key lets down and embarrasses all his tragic wee idolators. It’s happening on a weekly basis. I don’t envy you Alwyn Troll.

    • alwyn 20.1

      In other words you are very well aware that you are a B**S. There is absolutely nothing that justifies the lies you so routinely spout. Liar, liar, liar.

      I think I should simply describe you in some of Weka’s words.
      “I’m sick of your constant astroturfing/trolling and think from now on I will just name it as such.
      North, liar, shill and troll.”

      Now crawl back under your rock you lying little twit.

  21. North 21

    Ahem

    • alwyn 21.1

      That sounds almost like someone clearing their throat before apologising.
      Almost but not quite. A lying SOB like you is quite incapable of any honest behaviour. Come on dopey. Put up or shut up.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 21.1.1

        “In other words you are very well aware that you are a B**S. There is absolutely nothing that justifies the lies you so routinely spout. Liar, liar, liar.”

        “A lying SOB like you is quite incapable of any honest behaviour.”

        Coincidentally, these comments are an accurate appraisal of our PM, who has normalised lying and dishonest behaviour in pursuit of power and money. Get with the programme.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Government support for South Auckland community hit by tornado
    The Government is contributing $100,000 to a Mayoral Relief Fund to support Auckland communities impacted by the Papatoetoe tornado, Acting Minister for Emergency Management Kris Faafoi says. “My heart goes out to the family and friends who have lost a loved one, and to those who have been injured. I ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Celebrating World Refugee Day
    World Refugee Day today is an opportunity to celebrate the proud record New Zealanders have supporting and protecting refugees and acknowledge the contribution these new New Zealanders make to our country, the Minister of Immigration Kris Faafoi said. “World Refugee Day is also a chance to think about the journey ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Face to face meeting delivers significant progress on NZ-UK FTA
    New Zealand and the UK have committed to accelerating their free trade agreement negotiations with the aim of reaching an agreement in principle this August, Trade Minister Damien O’Connor announced. “We’ve held constructive and productive discussions towards the conclusion of a high-quality and comprehensive FTA that will support sustainable and inclusive trade, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government taking action to protect albatross
    New population figures for the critically endangered Antipodean albatross showing a 5 percent decline per year highlights the importance of reducing all threats to these very special birds, Acting Minister of Conservation Dr Ayesha Verrall says. The latest population modelling, carried out by Dragonfly Data Science, shows the Antipodean albatross ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Adoption laws under review
    New Zealand’s 66-year-old adoption laws are being reviewed, with public engagement beginning today.  Justice Minister Kris Faafoi said the Government is seeking views on options for change to our adoption laws and system. “The Adoption Act has remained largely the same since 1955. We need our adoption laws to reflect ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Wider roll-out of cameras on boats to support sustainability and protect marine life
    Up to 300 inshore commercial fishing vessels will be fitted with on-board cameras by 2024 as part of the Government’s commitment to protect the natural marine environment for future generations.  Minister for Oceans and Fisheries David Parker today announced the funding is now in place for the wider roll out ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Plan for vaccine rollout for general population announced
    New Zealanders over 60 will be offered a vaccination from July 28 and those over 55 from August 11, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. The rollout of the vaccine to the general population will be done in age groups as is the approach commonly used overseas, with those over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand introduces Belarus travel bans
    New Zealand has imposed travel bans on selected individuals associated with the Lukashenko regime, following ongoing concerns about election fraud and human rights abuses after the 2020 Belarus elections, Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta has announced. The ban covers more than fifty individuals, including the President and key members of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ economy grows driven by households, construction and business investment
    The Government’s efforts to secure the recovery have been reflected in the robust rebound of GDP figures released today which show the economy remains resilient despite the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Grant Robertson said. GDP increased 1.6 percent in the first three months of 2021. The Treasury had ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Milestone 250th tower continues to improve rural connectivity
    The Government has welcomed the completion of the 250th 4G mobile tower, as part of its push for better rural connectivity. Waikato’s Wiltsdown, which is roughly 80 kilometres south of Hamilton, is home to the new tower, deployed by the Rural Connectivity Group to enable improved service to 70 homes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria to lift on Tuesday
    Following a further public health assessment of the COVID-19 outbreak in greater Melbourne, New Zealand’s Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria has been extended to 11.59pm on Tuesday 22 June, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. It has been determined that the risk to public health in New Zealand continues ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Prime Minister mourns passing of Dr Sir Ian Hassall
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is mourning the passing of Dr Sir Ian Hassall, New Zealand’s first Children’s Commissioner and lifelong champion for children and children’s health. As a paediatrician Sir Ian contributed to a major world-first cot death study that has been directly credited with reducing cot deaths in New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • APEC structural reform meeting a success
    APEC ministers have agreed working together will be crucial to ensure economies recover from the impact of COVID-19. Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs David Clark, chaired the virtual APEC Structural Reform Ministerial Meeting today which revolved around the overarching theme of promoting balanced, inclusive, sustainable, innovative and secure growth ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Digital hub to boost investment in forestry
    A new website has been launched at Fieldays to support the forestry sector find the information it needs to plant, grow and manage trees, and to encourage investment across the wider industry. Forestry Minister Stuart Nash says the new Canopy website is tailored for farmers, iwi and other forestry interests, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government continues support for rangatahi to get into employment, education and training
    Over 230 rangatahi are set to benefit from further funding through four new He Poutama Rangatahi programmes, Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “We’re continuing to secure our economic recovery from COVID by investing in opportunities for rangatahi to get into meaningful employment, education or training ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NCEA subjects up for consultation
    The education sector, students, their parents, whānau and communities are invited to share their thoughts on a list of proposed NCEA subjects released today, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. This is a significant part of the Government’s NCEA Change Programme that commenced in 2020 and will be largely implemented by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Major investment in plantain forage programme aims to improve freshwater quality
    The Government is backing a major programme investigating plantain’s potential to help farmers protect waterways and improve freshwater quality, Acting Agriculture Minister Meka Whaitiri announced at Fieldays today. The Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures (SFFF) fund is contributing $8.98 million to the $22.23 million seven-year programme, which aims to deliver ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • America’s Cup decision
    The Minister responsible for the America’s Cup has confirmed the joint Crown-Auckland Council offer to host the next regatta has been declined by the Board of Team New Zealand. “The exclusive period of negotiation between the Crown, Auckland Council, and Team New Zealand ends tomorrow, 17 June,” said Stuart Nash. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Food and fibres sector making significant strides towards New Zealand’s economic recovery
    The Government is backing the food and fibres sector to lead New Zealand's economic recovery from COVID-19 with targeted investments as part of its Fit for a Better World roadmap, Forestry Minister Stuart Nash said. “To drive New Zealand’s recovery, we launched the Fit for a Better World – Accelerating ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to He Whenua Taurikura – New Zealand’s annual hui on countering terrorism and violent...
    Check against delivery Can I begin by acknowledging the 51 shuhada, their families and the Muslim community. It is because of the atrocious violent act that was done to them which has led ultimately to this, the start of a dialogue and a conversation about how we as a nation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Cost of Government Southern Response proactive package released
    The Government has announced the proactive package for some Southern Response policyholders could cost $313 million if all those eligible apply. In December, the Minister Responsible for the Earthquake Commission, David Clark announced a proactive package for SRES claimants who settled their claims before October 2014. It trailed the judgment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New support to reduce emissions from public building and construction projects
    Government agencies are getting new support to reduce carbon emissions generated by construction of new buildings, with the release of practical guidance to shape decisions on public projects. The Ministers for Building and Construction and for Economic Development say a new Procurement Guide will help government agencies, private sector suppliers, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • He Whenua Taurikura: New Zealand’s first Hui on Countering Terrorism and Violent Extremism
    The Prime Minister has opened New Zealand’s first hui on Countering Terrorism and Violent Extremism, which is being held in Christchurch over the next two days. The hui delivers on one of the recommendations from the report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch masjidain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to inaugural Countering Terrorism Hui
    E aku nui, e aku rahi, Te whaka-kanohi mai o rātou mā, Ru-ruku-tia i runga i te ngākau whakapono, Ru-ruku-tia i runga i te ngākau aroha, Waitaha, Ngāti Mamoe, Ngai Tahu, nāu rā te reo pohiri. Tena tātou katoa. Ki te kotahi te kakaho ka whati, ki te kapuia, e ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Campaign shines a light on elder abuse
    A new campaign is shining a spotlight on elder abuse, and urging people to protect older New Zealanders. Launched on World Elder Abuse Awareness Day, the Office for Seniors’ campaign encourages friends, whānau and neighbours to look for the signs of abuse, which is often hidden in plain sight. “Research suggests ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Farewelling sports administrator and philanthropist Sir Eion Edgar
    Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson today expressed his sorrow at the passing of Sir Eion Edgar – a leading sports administrator and celebrated philanthropist who has made a significant impact both within and beyond the sport sector. “Sir Eion’s energy, drive and generosity has been truly immense. He leaves ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government to apologise for Dawn Raids
    The Government will make a formal apology for the wrongs committed during the Dawn Raids of the 1970’s. Between 1974 and 1976, a series of rigorous immigration enforcement policies were carried out that resulted in targeted raids on the homes of Pacific families. The raids to find, convict and deport overstayers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Humanitarian support for Bangladesh and Myanmar
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced that New Zealand is providing NZ $8.25 million in humanitarian assistance to support refugees and their host populations in Bangladesh and to support humanitarian need of internally displaced and conflict affected people in Myanmar.  “Nearly four years after 900,000 Rohingya crossed the border ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Poroporoaki: Dame Georgina Kamiria Kirby
    E Te Kōkō Tangiwai, Te Tuhi Mareikura, Te Kākākura Pokai kua riro i a matou. He toka tū moana ākinga ā tai, ākinga ā hau, ākinga ā ngaru tūātea.  Haere atu rā ki te mūrau a te tini, ki te wenerau a te mano.  E tae koe ki ngā rire ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Feedback sought on future of housing and urban development
    New Zealanders are encouraged to have their say on a long-term vision for housing and urban development to guide future work, the Housing Minister Megan Woods has announced. Consultation starts today on a Government Policy Statement on Housing and Urban Development (GPS-HUD), which will support the long-term direction of Aotearoa ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Clean car package to drive down emissions
    New rebates for electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles start July 1 with up to $8,625 for new vehicles and $3,450 for used. Electric vehicle chargers now available every 75km along most state highways to give Kiwis confidence. Low Emission Transport Fund will have nearly four times the funding by 2023 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Progress towards simpler process for changing sex on birth certificates
    The Government is taking the next step to support transgender, non-binary and intersex New Zealanders, by progressing the Births, Deaths, Marriages and Relationships Registration Bill, Minister of Internal Affairs, Jan Tinetti announced today. “This Government understands that self-identification is a significant issue for transgender, non-binary and intersex New Zealanders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Crown speeds up engagement with takutai moana applicants
    The Crown is taking a new approach to takutai moana applications to give all applicants an opportunity to engage with the Crown and better support the Māori-Crown relationship, Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Minister Andrew Little says. Following discussions with applicant groups, the Crown has reviewed the existing takutai moana application ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Alcohol and Other Drug Treatment (AODT) Court opens
    The Minister of Justice, Kris Faafoi, and the Minister for Courts, Aupito William Sio, have welcomed the opening of a new Alcohol and Other Drug Treatment (AODT) Court in Hamilton. The AODT Court (Te Whare Whakapiki Wairua) addresses situations where substance abuse and offending are intertwined. “New Zealanders have told ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • EU and UK FTAs top of list for first ministerial trip since COVID-19
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor today announced details of his planned visit to the United Kingdom and European Union next week, where he will hold trade and agriculture discussions to further New Zealand’s economic recovery from COVID-19. The visit will add political weight to ongoing negotiations with both the EU ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Arihia Bennett to chair Royal Commission Ministerial Advisory Group
    Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu chief executive Arihia Bennett MNZM has been appointed chair of the newly appointed Ministerial Advisory Group on the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch mosques. “Twenty-eight people from diverse backgrounds across Aotearoa have been selected for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Medical Association General Practitioners' Conference, Rotorua
    Ki ngā pou maha o te whare hauora o Aotearoa, kei te mihiTo the pillars of our health system I acknowledge/thank you Ki te ope hapai hauora o roto o tēnei rūma, kei te mihi To our health force here in the room today, I acknowledge/thank you He taura tangata, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Karangahape Road upgrades are streets ahead
    The upgrades to Karangahape Road makes the iconic street more pedestrian and cycle-friendly, attractive and environmentally sustainable, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said at the formal celebration of the completion of the Karangahape Road Enhancements project. The project included widening footpaths supporting a better outdoor dining ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to APEC business event
    E ngā tumu herenga waka, ākina ā ngaru, ākina ā tai ka whakatere ngā waka ki te whakapapa pounamu, otirā, ki Tamaki o ngā waka Tena koutou katoa… To the great leaders assembled, who guided your waka through turbulent times, challenging waters and you continue to navigate your respective waka ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pause on Quarantine Free Travel with Victoria extended
    Following an assessment of the COVID-19 outbreak in greater Melbourne, New Zealand’s Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria will continue for a further seven days, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. There are now 93 cases associated with the outbreak in greater Melbourne, spread over four clusters. Contact tracing efforts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago