Key predicts future recessions

Written By: - Date published: 11:31 pm, May 17th, 2010 - 11 comments
Categories: Economy - Tags:

I’m really surprised that this comment from John Key hasn’t elicited more reaction:

“[Future] recessions are almost certainly in my view going to be global in nature and probably more severe… I think the question is not whether there is going to be another global recession but when that recession is going to hit.”

I wrote the other day about the rock and the hard place that the world’s economy finds itself between.

On the one hand, any economic recovery will see oil prices quickly rise to economically damaging heights. We are near or at peak oil and the manifestation of that will be repeated recession-causing supply crunches, like the one the IEA predicts for 2012.

On the other hand, the toxic assets that the banks loaded themselves up with haven’t disappeared, they have just been bought up by governments or by institutions using money they’ve borrowed from the governments for free.

The governments have funded this effort to save capitalism from itself with massive borrowing from the same banks who they bought the toxic assets off and who are now making a mint lending the government’s money back to themselves. On top of that, governments had to maintain their spending and stimulate their economies to end the recession. So, they loaded with debt.

Which will cause the next global recession? Dodgy debt or expensive oil? Looks like debt.

All of a sudden the steady rise in oil prices has reversed. In fact, the price has dropped 20% in the last month. That’s not because of some miraculous new cheap source of oil coming online. It’s not because suddenly oil economies are able to grow with less oil. It’s because the markets are losing their faith in the global economic recovery. The source of their concern: European sovereign debt.

The rich Euro states have put 700 billion into backing their currency. It was intended as a show of force to calm the markets and stop them losing faith in debt from Greece and the other PIGS. It doesn’t seem to be working. (it may also drive the EU into a fiscal union to match its monetary one, which I support).

If a major sovereign debt crisis doesn’t eventuate then confidence and growth will rebound, oil demand will grow, production won’t be able to keep up, and a supply crunch will hit us. The International Energy Agency and a bunch of other groups are picking that will happen around 2012.

11 comments on “Key predicts future recessions”

  1. Jenny 1

    The end is nigh.

    Grant Morgan at Unityblog

  2. Clarke 2

    I think your analysis is a bit rocky on this one, Marty, but for fairly complex reasons. Bear with me on an explanation.

    Sovereign debt is not a problem for any nation that issues its own currency and maintains a floating exchange rate (like NZ), and there is zero chance of “contagion” from the Greek crisis to non-EU countries as a result. All the problems the EU is currently experiencing have to do with their inability to resolve how transfers should work between members and some stupendously idiotic internal rules.

    There are no particular threats to countries such as the US that have transferred bank debts onto public balance sheets, as this is simply the equivalent of running a budget deficit and will not by itself cause a default. In fact, it’s practically impossible for a country issuing its own currency to ever default, assuming it issues its debt in that currency. That’s not to say that the transfer of debt from the private to public sectors is a good policy, however, as it effectively subsidises some truly reprehensible and economically destructive activity.

    In my view a severe future recession is highly likely, not because of the issue of new sovereign debt, but because banks wish to see deficits reduced as they compete with private bank lending.

    If the government increases the money supply through deficit spending, there is less requirement for private sector lending – which in turn chokes off bank profits. This is why every bank economist quoted in the msm will rail about how “bad” government deficits are, and talk up the “risks” and “dangers” of government borrowing. It’s pure bull$%*t. However governments such as our current esteemed leaders have a long history of drinking the neo-liberal Kool Aid, and will proceed to choke off deficit spending as a result – sending the country back into recession, in exactly the same way as happened in Japan during their lost decade.

    So it will be bad political decisions, not debt per se that causes the resumption of the recession.

    You’re 100% right about the peak oil issues, though.

    • Turn off the TV 2.1

      Surely there comes a point though, when so much money is being borrowed/printed to pay the interest on previous debts that the inflation amounts to a de facto default? Wouldn’t the inflation cause capital flight?

      • Bright Red 2.1.1

        I’m sorry but Clarke’s argument is fundamentally nonsense. A government can’t just print all the money it wants without consequences. It causes inflation, even hyper-inflation (most recent example: Zimbabwe).

        Money is just pieces of paper or numbers on a computer screen. It is just a medium for the transfer of wealth. Making more of it does not make more wealth, it just dilutes the medium. And pushes the cost of government borrowing on to others – the buyers of government debt and private savers

        • nzfp 2.1.1.1

          Hold on Bright Red,
          Australian economist Steve Keen (University of Western Sydney) winner of the inaugural Revere Award for Economics (2nd and 3rd place finishers Nouriel Roubini of New York University and Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research) and judged the economist who first and most cogently warned the world of the coming Global Financial Crisis argues that we are in a period of debt deflation and unemployment induced by debt saturation – particularly in the private sector – and deleveraging.

          In his July 4th, 2009 article titled “Debtwatch 36 July 2009: It’s the Deleveraging, Stupid” Steve Keen states:

          The US Government is attempting to “pump-prime’ its way out of trouble by public-debt-financed deficit spending, which raises 4 further issues:

          1. this so-called Keynesian remedy can work when private debt levels are relatively low, and government policy to attenuate private speculation is strictly adhered to (see my 1995 paper Finance and Economic Breakdown);

          2. however, in our rampantly speculative economies, this policy has only worked when it has re-started the private debt binge, resulting in rising debt levels over time;

          3. this can’t happen this time around, because all sectors of the private economybusinesses both real and financial, and householdsare already debt-saturated. There is no “greenfields’ group to lend to, as was possible in 1990 when household debt was a “mere’ 60% of GDP, and the derivatives market in finance had yet to explode; and finally

          4. the scale of the private debt bubble is just too big to be countered by substituting public debt for private debt.

          This last point is evident in the data. Even though the US government has thrown the proverbial kitchen sink at government spending, the increase in public debt (which adds to aggregate demand) is more than counteracted by private sector deleveraging (which subtracts from aggregate demand)

    • nzfp 2.2

      Nice one Clarke,
      Well said.

  3. Pascal's bookie 3

    re: oil

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/7006307.html

    Thunder Horse is the massive 60,000-ton, $1 billion production platform that BP, after some engineering difficulties, brought into operation in 2008. It was supposed to produce 250,000 barrels of oil a day.It hasn’t gotten close.

    Production from Thunder Horse’s main field reached a peak of about 172,000 barrels a day in January 2009, then began declining, falling to 61,000 barrels by December, according to data from the Minerals Management Service.

    “The field has collapsed,’ said Matthew Simmons, CEO of Houston-based Simmons & Company International, an investment banking firm specializing in energy….

    …While the energy industry talks up the potential of deep-water production, many of the wells drilled so far show rapid declines similar to those that appear to be happening at Thunder Horse. The wells are among the most expensive drilling projects in the world, and the exploration companies need rapid payouts to generate a return on their investment, Simmons said.

    In all, he’s tracked as many as 25 deep-water wells that show rapid declines….

    …”We’ve got to get off being so smug,’ Simmons said of the industry. “The easy stuff is all gone.’

    • Bright Red 3.1

      Wow, that shortfall between what was predicted for daily production and what has eventuated is more than NZ’s daily consumption.

  4. Alexandra 4

    This is called covering ones arse in case the prediction that this recession is over, is wrong. Key can say in the not too distant future (say tomorrow), that his government magnificently managed its way out of the recession and low and behold as he predicted, we find ourselves in another.

    • George.com 4.1

      …or he could say that he was really lucky and that his govt stumbled and bumbled along as NZ dragged itself out of recession and that he hopes he is as lucky next time should another recession occur on his watch.

  5. Jenny 5

    Key’s prediction of another recession may be coming true, sooner than he may have imagined.

    Key claimed that this next recession would be global and it would be worse, New Zealand would not escape.

    With breaking news of a new global down turn creating global currency turbulence, both the NZ dollar and the Aussie dollar dropped as the Euro continued its fall.

    After the Euro tumbled and then continued to slide, Wall Street sank and the Aussie dollar took a nosedive. As the Kiwi slipped below US69c Alan Bollard flagged the risk of “contagion” to New Zealand.

    Talk about Roller Coaster.

    Hang on everybody, Here we go again!!!

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  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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