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Key rules out Peters?

Written By: - Date published: 9:26 am, August 8th, 2013 - 77 comments
Categories: john key, national, nz first, winston peters - Tags:

“He is completely and utterly wrong as per normal,” Mr Key said.

The PM responds to Winston Peters’ allegations that the Police considered seizing his phone records in Key’s teapot tape witch-hunt with his usual sophistication and class.

Key’s comments raise an important question: ‘would Key have in his government a man who is normally “completely and utterly wrong”?’

77 comments on “Key rules out Peters? ”

  1. Sable 1

    Of course he would as long as he does what he’s told and doesn’t ask questions like his current line up of misfits.

  2. Lanthanide 2

    “Key’s comments raise an important question: ‘would Key have in his government a man who is normally “completely and utterly wrong”?’

    The answer to this is obviously yes. Bill English springs to mind.

  3. lprent 3

    Poor John Key (yeah right!) is being harassed (ie asked questions) by Winston Peters.

    The real question is what will the National caucus do when Winston makes his non-negotiable the demand that he gets John Key’s head in return for allowing them to stay in government?

    • Rosetinted 3.1

      Fantastic images in my head – Winston Peters dressed as seductive Salome demanding the head of John the Changeling on a charger (and that word has lots of meanings.) Accompanying music?
      Rogue could think of something?

      • northshoreguynz 3.1.1

        Dance of the Seven Veils?

        • Rosetinted 3.1.1.1

          northguy
          Yes – but trite. It’s been done before – a while ago! I’m going to think about it. I was counting on Rogue though. He must have taken his active mind somewhere else.

    • paul andersen 3.2

      they will do what every rightwinger always does, they will look after their own self-interest and property rights first, if that means doing a deal with winston to stay in power, then key’s head would quickly be separated from his body.

      • Populuxe1 3.2.1

        In case it has escaped your attention, NZF economic and social policy is fairly heavily left wing. It could only be considered right wing if you sat somewhere to the left of Karl Marx himself.

        • felix 3.2.1.1

          It could also only be considered “heavily left wing” if you compare it with something less left wing.

          But that’s the trouble with meaningless statements, they’e not what they’re cracked up to be.

          • Populuxe1 3.2.1.1.1

            Aw poppet, get over your butthurt. Labour is playing fast and loose with the sale of electricity generation and telecoms, and supports the TPPA. The Greens want to go into coalition with Labour so won’t rock the boat too much. MANA is the only other party genuinely more left on the policies that NZF endorses, and no entirely sane person is going to vote MANA, so pooh to you.

            • felix 3.2.1.1.1.1

              I’m sorry you didn’t understand what I wrote.

              I’m also faux-offended by your blatant homophobia.

              • Populuxe1

                The butthurt is strong with this one. I am speaking of political reality, not the smouldering ashes of your dreams.

                • felix

                  You know how people often remark that you have this habit of completely ignoring what was actually written and responding to something you imagined they might have been thinking instead?

                  This little subthread, this is what they’re referring to. I urge you to study it closely.

  4. Pascal's bookie 4

    ““He is completely and utterly wrong as per normal,” Mr Key said.”

    that line would be better used before Peters was right about Dunne being all leaky.

  5. Anne 5

    Do any of those Key-adoring mumpties – including most of the MSM – ever sit down and think? Of course the police considered seizing his phone records. Somebody had clearly given Peters a broad outline (at the least) of what was on that tape. The more interesting aspect is why did they not go ahead and seize them. You can be sure it wasn’t for ethical reasons so, maybe in the end they didn’t have to because somebody else already had the gen. Peters seems to think so.

    • mickysavage 5.1

      Bevan Hurley at the Herald obviously has copies of documents from the police file. He is the person who broke the story about the Ambrose text messages.

      The police obtained these pursuant to a warrant. Time will no doubt tell but Peters obviously thinks that the Police contemplated getting a warrant to gain his telephone records.

      If so this is really chilling and highlights the absurdity of the whole teapot tape saga. Key uses the powers of the state to investigate an alleged breach of his privacy but trashes the privacy of everyone in his attempt to stop the teapot tapes being published.

      He must have had a lot to fear such were the steps that he went to hide the tapes.

      Maybe they were a potential game changer as reported by the Herald. And talking disparagingly about the elderly may only have been the start.

      • vto 5.1.1

        the teapot tapes must be released

        nothing to fear, nothing to hide

      • Veutoviper 5.1.2

        @ MS “Bevan Hurley at the Herald obviously has copies of documents from the police file.”

        I just reread Hurley’s article, in particular this paragraph

        “Now, police have been forced, under the Official Information Act, to supply their investigation file – which stretched to several hundred pages long.”

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=10907972

        The raw video of the Cuppagate released on Sunday with that article is also worth watching – although I could not see anyone in a NZF teeshirt!
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_objectid=10907972&gallery_id=124741

        Other priorities prevented me last night from following the Winne claims in detail, but my perceptions were that Winnie was claiming (words to the effect that) he had seen or been informed that there were communications about the possibility of accessing his phone records – specifically at the time the investigation was transferred by the police from Wellington to Auckland. Peters did not claim to have this evidence as yet, but seemed to be confident that he would have this within about five days. An OIA request by him would take much longer ….

        In his claim in Parliament, Peters also said that he had found out only in the last 24 hours. He has always had his ‘sources’, and as a canny/experienced lawyer as well as a politician, has also been very careful to protect these sources. At the same time, of course, he loves the limelight! And is out to get Key – and Dunne. Add Banks to that list.

      • karol 5.1.3

        The audio of the Banks-Key tea party was online at one point. I listened to them. There really wasn’t anything much incriminating in them, other than the sneering attitude of Key. It shows more his desire to control the media as his own PR machine, rather than anything significant to hide.

        • Veutoviper 5.1.3.1

          Thanks for those links, Karol. I had forgotten about that aspect. At the time of the first link, the actual tapes were suppressed and court action to get this lifted failed as the situation was still under police investigation – final paras of the first link.

          Was that suppression ever lifted? I am not sure. If not, it may be an idea to remove the second link….

          • karol 5.1.3.1.1

            I’m not sure if the tape is deemed in the public domain since the charges ave been dropped in relation to it. But I’ve removed the link just in case – not hard to find a copy of the audio file online, though. Didn’t take me long.

        • lprent 5.1.3.2

          The teapot tapes story was almost entirely about John Key’s reaction rather than the content of the tape. The only political thing it displayed that was of interest (like the Kees tape in 2008) was the enormous discrepancy between the “public” position of major National party figures and their “private” positions. Their contempt for the voters was palpable.

    • Anne 5.2

      oops… typo @ 5 – numpties not mumpties.

  6. Craig Glen viper 6

    Of coarse its highly possible Key has been using the GCSB to spy on his politically opponents I wouldnt put it passed him at all.

    • ak 6.1

      Almost certain Craig. From private correspondence Slippery now knows beyond doubt that Peters will never support him, so the only course is to destroy him. Exactly the same as 2008, and the same strategy will be employed. Observe with interest the media coverage of Winnie from this point on.

      • Anne 6.1.1

        Observe with interest the media coverage of Winnie from this point on.

        Exactly. One point though, Peters will know what to expect over the next 12 months. He’s been down that road of attempted political assassination before (Winebox saga) and he has always won in the end. He must have something on Key that is potentially destructive but he will sit on it until he can inflict the most damage. That’s his usual modus operandi.

        • SpaceMonkey 6.1.1.1

          [Winston Peters] must have something on Key that is potentially destructive but he will sit on it until he can inflict the most damage.

          Never thought I’d say this but… GO WINNIE!

  7. TheContrarian 7

    The other question – would Peters be part of a government with someone he believes to have acted illegally?

    • Good question – and it dovetails with lprent’s comment (number 3).

      Of course, if the accusation of illegality is correct we might hope that Peters would not have to be in a position, post election, to ask that question of himself. The dilemma would have been pre-empted by other processes.

      • Bearded Git 7.1.1

        I keep saying, Peters hates Key’s guts and won’t go near him after the election.

        • Veutoviper 7.1.1.1

          I agree, BG. I can understand why Peters went with National in the past, but I do not see him in any way going with a Key-led National Government, nor one led by either Collins or Joyce.

          IIRC, he was also very clear at the last election that he would remain on the cross benches, and I would not be surprised if he maintains that position at the next one. Meaning that Labour, Greens, and Mana would have to have the numbers to form a government.

        • grumpy 7.1.1.2

          Offer him Foreign Affairs and he will be in like a big dog!

    • blue leopard 7.2

      +1 TheContrarian

      Also; would Peters be part of a government with someone as incompetent as Key has proven himself to be?

      If a huge percentage of voters voted for National; Peters might feel obligated to go with that party, this would be the democratic thing to do.

      However I agree with Bearded Git in perceiving Peters to ‘hate Key’s guts’

      Perhaps the wording is a little strong however Peters relates in a way that comes across that he sees Key as the incompetent liar that he is and he appears angry about the devastating effect that this is having on our society and democratic principles,

      I therefore see the question that the Contrarian poses re Peters as being more relevant.

      • felix 7.2.1

        “If a huge percentage of voters voted for National; Peters might feel obligated to go with that party, this would be the democratic thing to do.”

        What’s democratic about that?

        If a huge percentage of voters vote National then National represents those voters in Parliament, just as every other party represents their own voters.

        No party is under any obligation whatsoever to represent those who voted for another party. To do so would be to abandon the voters they’re elected to represent.

        I actually can’t think of a less democratic action a party could commit.

        • blue leopard 7.2.1.1

          @ Felix
          I was thinking of the scenario where NZF plus National created a large majority compared to NZF and Labour and Greens i.e. the largest number of votes should make up parliament.

          Otherwise you have a point

          • felix 7.2.1.1.1

            “I was thinking of the scenario where NZF plus National created a large majority compared to NZF and Labour and Greens i.e. the largest number of votes should make up parliament.”

            1. All votes make up parliament. I’m guessing you meant government.

            2. If you meant government, then no, absolutely not. The confidence of 51% of the seats in parliament makes up government. Not the moon cycle, not the blood of a chicken, not alphabetical supremacy or the dewey system or who can throw a kettle over a pub or the “largest number” of anything.

            • blue leopard 7.2.1.1.1.1

              1. Yes I meant government

              2. Are you telling me that if Labour, Greens and NZ First collectively made up 60% of the vote and NZ First went with National and that arrangement made 51% of the vote; that you think that was the most democratic outcome?

  8. Chooky 8

    @ Anne….Maybe the GCSB had Peters emails/phone calls and handed them over to Key?

    See below:

    exitlane 19
    3 August 2013 at 4:47 pm
    What is missing is the bigger picture arising from the latest Guardian revelations.

    It’s almost certain the GCSB had already has accessed Dunne’s and Vance’ phone calls and emails anyway without relying on Parliamentary Services. Why almost certain? Because the latest revelations in the Guardian about XKeystore confirm a lowly analyst Like Edward Snowden can obtain the content of calls and emails of anyone anywhere with a few keystrokes and without a warrant.

    These latest Snowden documents are headed with “NZL” at the top of all of them – meaning the GCSB has access to the XKeystore program as well. Are we so naive as to believe that the GCSB has this capability but does not use it and provide the data relevant to the Kitteridge report to its Master ?

    It’s well overdue for the media – (and Dunne for goodness sake !) to start joining the dots between privacy breaches involving a few individuals like Dunne and Vance and the mass surveillance which will be permissible under the new GCSB law, and ask some hard questions of Key

  9. tracey 9

    Depends on the polls

    • Skinny 9.1

      Winston will clown around then get Key to publicly endorse a mutual  arrangement. Then steal the show, by a humiliating write off of Key as not fit to lead the National Party. Icing on the cake he grabs the Whangarei seat & 10 % of the party vote. He is too tricky a character to know what happens from there, apart from a new super-super Gold Card.

      • alwyn 9.1.1

        Wow!
        What have you been smoking and where can I get some?
        Winnie running in a seat? No way. If he were to win he would have to a bit of work when Parliament was not sitting.

        • Skinny 9.1.1.1

          Ha ha not a fan of Bob Hope. Recent new office, attended a public forum there promoting a big spend. We will know its true when a new Restaurant called The Silver Cockatoo announces it’s opening.

  10. tinfoilhat 10

    Peters will do whatever he needs to do to get over the 5% margin, he will them if holding the balance of power go with whomever offers him the most.

    National and Labour, if they need Peters to form government proceed to offer him whatever gets them into power.

    They are all are despicable and sorry excuse for ‘peoples representatives’.

    • Winston Smith 10.1

      Well you’re not wrong

    • Saarbo 10.2

      Yes I agree, Peters may hate National, it just means that he will play a bit harder and demand a bit more…and he will enjoy every moment of the deal making. “Hate” seems to come with the territory in politics, it doesn’t only exist between Parties either.

  11. vto 11

    If Winston Bjeikle-Peters goes with John Bjeikle-Keys next term then clearly that will by John Bjeikle-Keys last term. That would have serious effects for Winston Bjeikle-Peters in the following term, would it not?

    This must surely be a guiding guide for him……

    Mind you. maybe they would enjoy competing for the title of most incomprehensible statements rivalling the late great (not) John Bjeikle-Petersen, the infamous Queensland premier known for his inability to verbalise a sentence, his total and complete corruption, and his outright bigotry and bombast. This man was epitomised by his selection of running mate Russ Hinze who was simultaneously Racing Minister and Police Minister – in Australia’s most corrupt state………………….. the similarities are scary

    • alwyn 11.1

      Please. His name was Bjelke-Petersen, not Bjeikle-Petersen. He was of course, apart from the attributes you list, the most famous son of Dannevirke.
      He did have a little better verbal ability than you credit him with though. After all he was the poitician who said, as he went to a press conference, that he was “going to feed the chooks”.
      Seems a perfect description of the press gallery to me.

  12. Pascal's bookie 13

    All of this assumes Peters gets over the 5%. Which isn’t a given.

    • Craig Glen viper 13.1

      He will now.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10909958 So Key has once again been caught out by Peters. Word of advice to Key little boys shouldnt poke sticks at a Wasps nest

      • karol 13.1.1

        How has Key been caught out? It just says that police were considering prosecuting Peters because he made content of the tapes public while it was under investigation as possibly being illegal to publish such content.

        Possibly it’s the fact that Eagleson was given regular updates on the police investigation?

        • Craig Glen viper 13.1.1.1

          Exactly karol when Peters said this”Eagleson was given regular updates on the police investigation” yesterday Key said it was utter nonsance.

          So once again Keys of the cuff smart arse responses make him look silly. Winston will string him along now playing with him like a cat with a mouse.I wonder how long it is before Winston turns on Dunn.

    • lprent 13.2

      It isn’t. Just as it isn’t given that Labour or National could get enough to maintain their positions as dominant coalition parties. It is however likely and even probable that all three of these events will come to pass.

      The worst that NZF have gotten over the years since 1996 has been ~4.5% in 2008. That was after one of the more interesting and effective political scapegoatings that I’ve seen.

      I don’t think that any similar campaign will work on people who vote NZF again, as is evidenced by the NZF showing in 2011. In fact I suspect that such campaigns in the privileges committee are forever going to tainted in the future by the completely partizan and largely fact free way that it was used to try to knock out a political party from the 2008 campaign.

  13. infused 14

    Would Labour? I’m guessing yes.

    • lprent 14.1

      Why? I’m guessing no. They won’t rule out working with NZF. They haven’t spent years vilifying either them or Winston.

      Winston worked well with Helen’s cabinet and NZF with Labours caucus in 2005-2008 without any significant political drama until Joyce and the Nat’s research unit started to use Rodney Hide as a sockpuppet on a bullshit vendetta. At the time I said that it was unconvincing and wouldn’t fool the voters for long. I was right.

      NZF got ~4.5% in 2008 and quite a lot more in 2011 despite the foolish political jerking off that Key did before the election. I guess enough voters had decided that it was all a frameup. I’d expect that it will be similar this time based on how effective he has been so far. I’d also expect that the Nats are going to be caught by their own previous boogeyman propaganda…

      It just seems to be parts of National/Act, John Key, and their more rabid and unthinking supporters who have issues working with NZF and Winston. I can’t see any reason why Labour should concern themselves with dickheads who can’t be bothered looking beyond talkback, and who certainly never let their brains interfere with their bigotry.

      Of more concern to Labour is if NZF tries to do the exclude Greens tactic this time that they and Peter Dunne did in 2005. However it seems unlikely to be possible to even try that this time.

      • alwyn 14.1.1

        The actual percentages by NZF were 4.07% in 1008 and 6.59% in 2011. That is a nearly 62% increase.
        The thing to watch will be party rating in the pre-election polls. NZF tend to get the same number of votes in the election as they get in the final polls, unlike the Greens who tend to drop a couple of percentage points. If NZF are under 5% late in the campaign their voters may drift away rather than risk a wasted vote.
        You suggest that it may not be possible to even try and exclude the Green party.
        With Winston anything is possible. If he was to say that he would not give a confidence vote to a Labour/Green government what can Labour do? If he was the kingmaker they might just have to go along with him. Do you think it would really be possible for the Greens to support National, or themselves bring down a Labour/NZF government?
        Winston has in the past regularly stated the view that he prefers to see a Government led by the biggest party, which is almost certainly going to be National. He is also likely to prefer to be the second tier of a two party government that the third of three.
        As a final thought only the National party can offer him a knighthood to round out his career, and I think he craves that recognition.

      • Chooky 14.1.2

        +1Iprent

      • Populuxe1 14.1.3

        I’m inclined to see Labour’s new push to restrict overseas ownership of housing stock as a coy eyelash flutter in the direction of NZF. In fact, Labour are doing a better job of marketing a policy that NZF has had for around two decades.

      • Pascal's bookie 14.1.4

        @lprent

        I’m not so sure. the teapot tapes last time got him over with a few oldies getting pissed off at Key, and there was tactical vote from lefties hoping for a miracle. Post election the support faded pretty quick.

        If he’s polling sub 5 a couple of weeks out, and the L/R blocks are tied, (which looks poss if not prob) then it’s a whole nother ball game.

        • Lanthanide 14.1.4.1

          Yeah I agree pb, I think the 2011 result was largely due to teapot tapes and tactical voting. I wouldn’t count on much higher than 5%, if it even reaches that.

          • RedBaronCV 14.1.4.1.1

            Not hard to see why the constitutional review, with lowering the threshold suggested, was scuttled by JK

      • infused 14.1.5

        Sorry, I meant no.

  14. Mary 15

    Key would sell his grandmother. A coalition with Peters would be so easy for him he wouldn’t flinch. Unprincipled, soulless shell of a man he is.

    • tinfoilhat 15.1

      National or Labour would sell their grandmother. A coalition with Peters would be so easy for either of them they wouldn’t flinch. Unprincipled, soulless shells of political parties both of them.

      FIFY.

  15. srylands 16

    There is often no choice. Pm Shearer will have R Norman who is most definitely utterly wrong about everything.

  16. irascible 17

    TV3 reveals Police were ready to ivestigate Peters’ phone records as next in line after Ambrose. Key’s truthfullness registering as an own goal yet again I’d say. Key is learning that smile, wave, bluster, scuttle and run are not the qualities of an honorable PM.

    • karol 17.1

      Well, it’s not that they were ready to investigate Peters, but that they were accessing people’s phone/txt records. Also, that the PM’s Chief of Staff was being regularly informed of developments.

      If it was illegal to keep the recording of the tea party, it was also illegal for Peters to disclose their content.

      3news framed it as being the Tea Pot tapes continuing to have an impact. I think the initial actions go back further than that, to the way NAct took out Peters before the 2008 elections – Peters is getting pay back. And Rortney, attack dog for National back then, is out of the picture. I think Peters will be happy to see the end of Key in politics.

  17. paul scott 18

    The thing that all of us who might vote for NZ First is will he then join a coalition with the wrong side , and that is for me will he join Labour/ Green.
    I had always thought no show and I still believe it. But I do not want my vote going to a Labour/Green/NZ First group and that means I probably get to vote Nat even though I don’t really want to. There will be a lot of water under the bridge yet. It is important for superannuants to know that devaluation means a lowering of fixed income value.
    Grey power is still thin on the ground and it may be soon that the news gets out.
    There is the categorical statement that NZ First will only form Government on agreement if Mighty River Power is Nationalised .
    Its all very well NZ First saying we stick to our policy, but it will either be a NZ Nat Govt or a Labour /Green Govt, and I see the conservative NZ First people likely going back to camp

  18. Tracey 19

    Alot of Grey Power folks recall the war (WWII) and later. They recall rationing and fighting for freedom. Hopefully some of the GCSB stuff resonates with them, but none of us know which way Winston would jump., He did make a surprisingly good fist of Foreign Affairs and his relationship with Rice is what paved the way for this Govt to take credit for their tongues being down the back of the US trouser.

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