Key to work rights activist: you’re an idiot

97 comments on “Key to work rights activist: you’re an idiot ”

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1. Vinsin 1

   6 November 2008 at 4:20 pm

   I wonder if this will get any air time – doubt it – and if it does i imagine it’ll be painted as Labour’s dirty politics.
2. higherstandard 2

   6 November 2008 at 4:21 pm

   Yep lovely activists – what wonderful dignified people shouting and screaming and pushing pensioners around.
3. Billy 3

   6 November 2008 at 4:23 pm

   In fairness, the guy does sound like an idiot.
4. Bryan Spondre 4

   6 November 2008 at 4:23 pm

   Sounds like Key was telling the truth: the protestors were idiots.

   [lprent: weird. You keep getting moderated. Looking at back record. I guess that was old, was in moderation list]
5. Vinsin 5

   6 November 2008 at 4:24 pm

   Maybe Key should just stick to getting pictures taken with dogs and babies then HS. Because that’s what truly shows off the skills of a leader.
6. Daveski 6

   6 November 2008 at 4:24 pm

   How true SP.

   Better Key told the idiot that he bet shouted everyone down at home. That’s truly presidential.
7. Wellingtonian 7

   6 November 2008 at 4:25 pm

   way to paint half a picture.

   To elaborate:

   “with a very noisy group of about 20 Labour supporters also waving placards and nearly drowning him out as he spoke to the crowd through speakers on Ilam MP Gerry Brownlee’s campaign van.”

   “The Labour supporters crowded in around Mr Key as he shook hands with his followers, continuing to chant “vote Labour, vote Labour”.”

   “One Labour supporter repeatedly asked Mr Key to “tell the truth” about the changes National would make to the Employment Relations Act.”

   “National supporter Judith Parrot, 75, said she had been pushed by Labour supporters and she had pushed back.”

   “At one point exchanges between opposing supporters became heated, with placard bearers clashing over standing positions.”

   Activism at it’s usual worst. Shout over the top of someone you dont agree with, push supporters – glad their on your side. You dont see National supporters interferring with Helen’s walkabouts, not letting her speak to her supporters and trying to yell her down.

   What a joke.
8. vidiot 8

   6 November 2008 at 4:25 pm

   So why wasn’t the said ‘workers rights’ activist at work ?
9. Vinsin 9

   6 November 2008 at 4:27 pm

   Wellingtonian, No, you just have National supporters trolling every conceivable internet avenue calling people idiots, losers, dole bludgers and more.

   Yep, a much more civilised form debate.
10. tsmithfield 10

    6 November 2008 at 4:28 pm

    If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck….

    You were the lot criticising Key for not being honest. Now you’re criticising him for being too honest.
11. Wellingtonian 11

    6 November 2008 at 4:32 pm

    Vinsin – same came be said about left wing supporters – rich pricks, idiots, capitalists, selfish, greedy, sheep etc – so thats a draw.

    I see Jeanette Fitzsimons got to say her piece at the same venue that day without the nat supporters shouting her down and trying to stop her getting her message across. Same curtesy wasnt extended to anyone on the right though.

    And vinsin – even if this got msm coverage, it isnt going to change the minds of swing voters, it will just appeal to activists.
12. Matthew Pilott 12

    6 November 2008 at 4:33 pm

    He was talking about Australian idiots.

    —

    Why is someone an idiot for asking the leader of the party that brought us the ECA what he will do to the ERA? Seems a very sensible question.

    Nice distraction from the right – were you guys there, and can you confirm the person Key called an ‘idiot’ was jostling with National supporters? I think not.

    Edit: Wellingtonian – you reckon ‘capitalist’ is an epithet?
13. milo 13

    6 November 2008 at 4:35 pm

    And that sums up another problem with this campaign. The completely precious reaction to innocuous events. He called a guy and idiot? SO WHAT?

    Would it have been better if he’d called him a hater and wrecker? Or cancerous and corrosive? Or untrustworthy?

    You lot really need to get out of the nursery a bit more.

    Or to put it another way: diddums.
14. burt 14

    6 November 2008 at 4:37 pm

    Relax people. All activists not wearing red shirts have been arrested for not putting their residential address proudly on display to show their approval of how Labour want to control activism.
15. Matthew Pilott 15

    6 November 2008 at 4:38 pm

    “Or untrustworthy?”

    Protester: What are you going to do to the ERA?

    Key: You’re untrustworthy!

    milo – that would have been a brilliant response. By the time we figured it out, it would be Monday.
16. Vinsin 16

    6 November 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Wellingtonian, I know it wouldn’t change the mind of swing voters, however it might erode that carefully manipulated image he’s been showing us for the past couple of months, which can never be a bad thing.
17. Scribe 17

    6 November 2008 at 4:41 pm

    MP,

    Why is someone an idiot for asking the leader of the party that brought us the ECA what he will do to the ERA? Seems a very sensible question.

    It is a sensible question — for a meet the candidates meeting or to send to TVNZ for the debates. To continually scream and shout while a candidate is addressing the party faithful is pretty poor form. Some might call is classless.

    I’m sure Young Nats yelling while Helen was speaking at a rally would be ignored by Labour supporters. (Tui)
18. burt 18

    6 November 2008 at 4:43 pm

    Vinsin

    If there were such a thing as a “carefully manipulated image” contest then the PM won it last night at the debate.
19. Matthew Pilott 19

    6 November 2008 at 4:46 pm

    “To continually scream and shout while a candidate is addressing the party faithful is pretty poor form. Some might call is classless”

    Classless? That’s what us lefties are all about! Need some nationalisation first, though.

    It’s not poor form,let’s be honest. It’s par for the course, let’s not pretend it doesn’t happen the other way around either. The left are just better at organising these thigs.

    Retorting that the person asking a sensible question (repeatedly) is an ‘idiot’ is pretty poor form. You could say it is distinctly lacking in class.

    Edit – bollocks Burt. How do you know that wasn’t the ‘real’ her? That’s what your mates throughout the media are suggesting… I’m not one to agree with their opinions often but…
20. Wellingtonian 20

    6 November 2008 at 4:48 pm

    and helen’s image isn’t carefully manipulated and then contradicted by her actual personality?
21. Daveski 21

    6 November 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Anyone else bored with what’s happened to the level of political debate from both sides of the divide or rather the “issues” we are debating.

    SP – can we please have one of your specials with graphs, stats and other data spun like a top to demonstrate Labour’s … oops – the left’s superiority. Ideally, it might have something to do with policy.

    That is NOT a dig at SP either – we’ve all ended up in the sandpit kicking sand in each other’s eyes. Actually, some of you have been doing something else too and I’m going to tell teacher. Where’s my mate randal?
22. higherstandard 22

    6 November 2008 at 4:52 pm

    thigs – or thugs ?

    The person was not asking a sensible question Mat – they were screeching like some kind of demented harpie.
23. burt 23

    6 November 2008 at 4:52 pm

    Matthew Pilott

    If that was the real HC last night then she has had the worst possible advice for the last 20 odd years on how to present herself… Somebody needs to be sacked!
24. Wellingtonian 24

    6 November 2008 at 4:56 pm

    “Retorting that the person asking a sensible question (repeatedly) is an ‘idiot’ is pretty poor form. You could say it is distinctly lacking in class.”

    I think when you’ve been shouted down for 20 minutes and watch pushing and shoving going on down below, you’d be in a less than charitable mood to be answering the questions of the angry mob.

    This could of been done a lot better, and the left could of made themselves look a lot better without the pushing, shoving and screaming, and just hammering John with the question.

    The way theyve done it they just look like radicals, and thats how alot of people watching the news tonight will see it.

    People have the right to protest, just as they have the right to make themselves look a little silly doing it.
25. burt 25

    6 November 2008 at 4:56 pm

    higherstandard

    Key should have said nothing and a National party supporter should have bashed the woman with a megaphone. Then the standard line would be that National supporters are just copy-cats.
26. Inventory2 26

    6 November 2008 at 5:01 pm

    vidiot said “So why wasn’t the said ‘workers rights’ activist at work ?”

    vidiot – activists don’t work mate. If they did, they wouldn’t have time to be activists!!
27. Ianmac 27

    6 November 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Put Key’s meeting a handful of young activists and his angry reaction, against his chickening out of having to meet Winston face to face.
    How would John handle a large mob of protesters which is what he would have to do sooner or later. He can’t hide forever. Meeting babies and puppies doesn’t count.
28. burt 28

    6 November 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Ianmac

    He might cry and not go back to the place where it happened for a few years…..
29. bobo 29

    6 November 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Helen Clark definitely has been the most approachable hard working PM in NZ history, look at how just about every weekend over the last 9 years she has been out and about to community events opening halls and mixing with real people, she has set the standard high in extracurricular activities that John Key is struggling to match even on a short campaign let alone being a PM with massive workload.. he has looked tired the last week or so which doesn’t bode well for if he actually becomes prime minister this is just a tiny taster of things to come John..

    John Key is a typical corporate where people communicate via email avoiding face to face, watch the film “Office Space” John is just like the boss in that..
30. Scribe 30

    6 November 2008 at 5:13 pm

    burt,

    priceless
31. milo 31

    6 November 2008 at 5:17 pm

    Matthew: 🙂
32. insider 32

    6 November 2008 at 5:24 pm

    Ianmac

    If faced with a large protest he should do what Helen did – hide in his office and call them names through the media.

    bobo

    Someone analysed the meeting schedules of the two leaders a couple of weeks ago and Key was doing way more and doing it outside his safe electorates.

    Matthew

    I think the left are better at this because they are more interested in doing it, being generally younger and passionate (not a characteristic solely of the left just of young people in general). The conservative Nat activists probably are just too polite and aware of the concept of a fair go to go and shout down their opposition.
33. bobo 33

    6 November 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Insider – I’m talking spread over the last nine years , not just the last couple of weeks of token trips to malls, markets and schools that media are invited to take shots of John at.. John himself has said Helen Clark is a hard working prime minister he can’t deny that.
34. gobsmacked 34

    6 November 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Actually this (minor) incident raises a pretty important point about Key, and it’s one of the reasons why I’ll happily bet my left Clarkson that if he gets in, he won’t be PM for long.

    He’s had a dream run. He’s never been associated with a single unpopular decision. Contrast with Bill English and Helen Clark. They’ve been prominent members of unpopular governments, they’ve both been opposition leaders who lost an election badly (2002 and 1996 respectively). They’ve been through the fire. They both know how to cope with – shock, horror – being unpopular. And yet they battled through. In politics, success is for survivors.

    John Key’s sole message is: you want it, I promise it. Everything will get better under John. We’ll be richer and safer and happier, and all we have to do is choose it.

    Now we all know (OK, all of us except fools and spinners – please don’t bother) that in 2009 things will not get better. They will be tough. The Prime Minister will be held responsible. He/she will be … oh no! … criticised. People might even shout a bit.

    How many mass protests have you seen on the steps of Parliament? Take a moment to recall: Farmers, Maori, god-squad, students, every pressure group, all kinds of issues, in their thousands, railing against the government. (Never mind whether you agree with the protestors or not: the point is, it’s what people do, and always will). That’s not going to change after Saturday.

    How is John Key going to cope? He seems to need to be popular. He soon won’t be. And I can’t see him battling through the toughest of times, like English or Clark.

    In politics, success is for fighters. Not players. You fight for what you believe in. But if you don’t really believe in anything, you just quit the game.

    Key will be gone before the next election. What’s more, the Nats know it.
35. Jeeves 35

    6 November 2008 at 5:39 pm

    This says it best:
    “Despite the loud opposition, Mr Key was mobbed by supporters who wanted to shake his hand, chat and get their photo taken.”

    Sorry guys, you can yell whatever offensive things you like, but ordinary people aren’t buying it, and frankly I was relieved when he called the idiot an idiot. It shows he is human. Why don’t you people go back to doing what you’re good at – filling up the policy vacuum with personal attacks.
36. barnsleybill 36

    6 November 2008 at 5:51 pm

    More importantly….
    “Pre victory tour”
    Not having doubts are you Steve?
    Just as well Len Richards wasn’t there, somebody could have been smashed in the face with a megaphone.
37. marco 37

    6 November 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Calling someone and idiot is very Rob Muldoon and Winston Peters like, I would have thought Bill English would be the more likely successor to their well worn thrones.
    Still, if the group was jostling old ladies as has been reported then calling someone an idiot is pretty lite.
38. Kerry 38

    6 November 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Oh i cant wait to see how Johnny boys looking in 6 months if hes elected PM…HAHAHAHAHA am looking forward to see the crap this guys gonna end up in……

    Hes a lightweight and wont be able to hack it!

    Yes everytime i see “supporters”around John I realise what happend to all those turfed out of the mental health institutions that the nats shut down in the 90’s.
39. gobsmacked 39

    6 November 2008 at 6:01 pm

    Mr Key was mobbed by supporters

    The winners of NZ Idol get mobbed. A few months later, their CDs are in the bargain bin.

    Real talent endures. Media-manufactured stardom doesn’t.

    There’s nothing there.
40. Jimbo 40

    6 November 2008 at 6:04 pm

    Unlike this article’s author, I do not believe that any politician in the world – including John Key – is “against” higher wages.

    You are either missing the point or deliberately misrepresenting his position in order to score points.

    What Key is against is artificially increasing the statutory minimum wage in a way that has a negative impact on the economy. Obama is against that too – I bet you my left nut he will not pass a law making the minimum wage US$50 per hour. Why not? Because it would not work…

    Some people have a genuine and carefully considered belief that governments cannot magically raise the market price of labour (i.e. wages) by passing a law saying “You must now pay $X”.

    For example, it would make not one ounce of difference to Africa’s poverty if their governments decreed that the minimum wage should suddenly be $50. In fact, it would obviously drive away whatever foreign investment there currently is.

    The statutory minimum wage is about making sure there is no exploitation of the lowest earners in society. It is not a magic bullet that makes the poor better off or materially increases average earnings.

    The only way that the poor get richer in the long term is if DEMAND for labour grows, which happens when PROODUCTIVITY increases and the economy expands.

    Some people believe in a different road to Rome – you belittle yourself if you keep mischaracterising John Key’s motives and refusing to engage on substance.
41. Akldnut 41

    6 November 2008 at 6:10 pm

    Smacks of the hypocrisy that national supporters think its ok for their crew to ambush helen at Christchurch uni last election but this is over the top. Hellooo……………. are we little bit fucking arrogant or what?

    Inventory2 & vidiot.This is the sort of bullshit generalisation that keeps National Supporters thinking that they are superior to anyone else. I’ve got news for you……..and it’s all bad

    I’m glad Key hasn’t come around here cause he might want a picture with my baby or dog. They’ed be scarred for life, I’d never subject them to that!
42. Francois 42

    6 November 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Poll results from TV 3. Not good news for the Left at all…

    Combined Left vote (excluding Maori Party) at 59 seats/

    Combined Right vote (exluding Maori Party) at 64 seats.

    Maori Party on 4 seats….
43. Jeeves 43

    6 November 2008 at 6:21 pm

    Hey Akldnut, if Labour doesn’t have to take responsibility for that bearded secret-recording guy, then National doesn’t have to take responsibility for Canterbury University Act on Campus members circa 2005. You’re really in no position to be talking about arrogant generalisations.
44. Akldnut 44

    6 November 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Jeeves I have read all the blurb on it as well as you may have, SP covers it fairly well in this link

    Definately arrogance and hypocrisy!!!!!

    Don’t make unsimilar comparisons cause they don’t stack up

    protest = protest
    Secret tape = protest …….nah I don’t think so
45. KiwiGirl 45

    6 November 2008 at 6:38 pm

    bobo
    November 6, 2008 at 5:08 pm
    Helen Clark definitely has been the most approachable hard working PM in NZ history, look at how just about every weekend over the last 9 years she has been out and about to community events opening halls and mixing with real people, she has set the standard high in extracurricular activities that John Key is struggling to match…………

    bobo, John Key is a husband and father. I would sincerely hope he has his life in balance so that he spends quality time with his family.
    I thought the Labour party fought for the rights of workers, that they weren’t required to give their whole life to the ‘boss’.
    We (New Zealand) are the bosses of the Parliamentarians. We have a duty to allow them to have a life apart from their ‘work’, don’t you think?
46. Kerry 46

    6 November 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Every country elects idiots every now and then…eg USA in 2000 got George W and looks like in 2008 we get John!
47. Ianmac 47

    6 November 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Kerry: True but not for long. Poisoned chalice? John has only implied that his team can do marvels. It might be an opportunity to carry out his Ruth Richardson plans under the guise of economic imperatives, but then what?
    Cheers
48. randal 48

    6 November 2008 at 7:59 pm

    kerry…I think you area right wing troll.
    key is definitely not going to be elected
    to suggest otherwise is a bit like being a mccain supporter
    the country has come to its senses and realised just what sort of nitwit and nincompoop key is
    bye bye johhny keys
49. Quoth the Raven 49

    6 November 2008 at 8:00 pm

    Yep lovely activists – what wonderful dignified people shouting and screaming and pushing pensioners around.

    Completely unlike when Gerry Brownlee assualted a pensioner. Aye HS. Or did you forget about that. Go back to kiwiblog HS.
50. Roflcopter 50

    6 November 2008 at 8:05 pm

    Randal = Baghdad Bob… dude, turn around…
51. Carol 51

    6 November 2008 at 8:07 pm

    TV3 poll tonight – aren’t the changes pretty much within the margin of error? Doesn’t actually tell us too much then about seats in parliament.

    On right-wingers preferring to communicate by email than face-to-face: well I think I’ve had leaflets in my mail box from all the main parties, except maybe Nats & the MP. Haven’t been door-knocked by anyone fr any election here.

    Tonight I go a call on my landline between 7.30pm-8pm. As usual I let the answerphone take it as I’m sick of the endless tele-marketers invading my privacy, interupting me doing chores or relaxing – REALLY HATE IT.

    So the message tonight starts: “This is an automated message, I’ll just take 1 minute of your time….economy…blah, blah blah crime…. blah blah blah…. we can all have a brighter future..” So I quickly put the automaton out of his misery. So annoying. He didn’t even ring in person so I can tell him he and his party will never get my vote.

    Mr Nat Guy, please don’t get your bot to call my phone again – it’s not appreciated!

    [lprent: I don’t get telemarketers. My phone was removed from the whitepages lists and made private ~15 years go. It is a growing trend]
52. randal 52

    6 November 2008 at 8:11 pm

    rofflecopter= brownbag karangahape bill
    stop standing on your head
    your brain has become pressurised
    you arethinkign that your fantasies =reality
    no such luck dudeo
53. Carol 53

    6 November 2008 at 8:15 pm

    If a Labour protester deliberately pushed a woman, especially an older woman, that’s shameful. But do we know that’s what happened? More evidence needed, before I can finally judge. The report said there was a lot of jostling amongst the protesters. Sometimes when there’s a crowd milling about, a person can get pushed by accident. I’m sure we’ve all had that happen just walking down the street.
54. Ianmac 54

    6 November 2008 at 8:26 pm

    Didya notice that the clip used om TV3 Campbell Live of the protesters, was to show how well John handled protest – with joking! No sign of the “idiot.”
    Carol You are right on the margin of error. We have been told for ages that movement within the margin of errors is meaningless. A poll is such a broad stroke and I am sure that it is not over yet by a long shot. Fine weather over the country on Sat forecast good for Labour, might yet swing it Leftwards. Really too close to call in MMP. Glass half full?
55. Carol 55

    6 November 2008 at 8:36 pm

    Yes the MSM seem to be really talking up key’s chances right now.
56. Carol 56

    6 November 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Hmmmm TV One’s latest poll shows a left-right draw & the Maori Party likely to be the decider. Sooo, I will be interested to see how close to the polls the election results actually turn out to be.
57. Ianmac 57

    6 November 2008 at 8:46 pm

    Carol: Trying to work out if that works for us or ag’in us.
    Does a bad spin activate those who are casual about voting?
    Does a bad spin discourage those who are casual about voting?
    On balance I think that if the average casual or floater thought that there was a chance that their vote might make a difference, they just might help. Help the “underdog” perhaps.
    Ever the optimist eh!
58. Ianmac 58

    6 November 2008 at 8:52 pm

    Someone said the Morgan poll is due out tomorrow and that is usually much more comforting to read. Like reading a Horoscope and making out of it what you want it to. Don’t read the latter and should treat polls with the same skepticism. Cheers
59. bobo 59

    6 November 2008 at 8:54 pm

    Kiwigirl – thats right play the husband and father card , if he wants quality time with his kids he wouldn’t be getting into politics, maybe he could start the job as minister of tourism with a trip to fiji on a fact finding tour? There’s no avoiding that the job is 24/7 and families do come second is a sad reality of the job as retiring MPs like Dover Samuel’s would say. I hardly think John Key is going to be exploited on long hours for the minimum wage either as you compare it to workers rights…
60. KiwiGirl 60

    6 November 2008 at 9:01 pm

    “thats right play the husband and father card ”

    You are really something else, bobo.
61. Janet 61

    6 November 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Re bullying by Nats. I just heard about some large and threatening Nats who intimidated some gentle older women who had a little support stall for Labour candidate Grant Robertson in Wellington. They stood over them with their placards and had very intimidating behaviour. Nat candidate Stephen Franks was nearby but didn’t call them off. It was witnessed by a member of the public who found it very unpleasant.
62. Carol 62

    6 November 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Yes, Ianmac. I wonder about those motivations too. The best thing is to encourage as many lefties as possible to vote. It is crucial.

    It’s not so much that it’s too close to call (that might be true), but that it’s hard to know how accurate the polls are. So basically it’s to difficult to call at the moment.
63. randal 63

    6 November 2008 at 9:27 pm

    janet…thats par for the course for the natty dreadfuls
    they like bullying and standing over
    its what makes them ‘them’
64. Janet 64

    6 November 2008 at 9:33 pm

    http://www.muffinbreak.co.nz Muffin break poll this week has Nats down to 44% and the Greens with 11% and Labour 32%. NZ First is on 4%. Act barely registers. This poll is by people who have time and money for coffee in shopping malls.
65. Janet 65

    6 November 2008 at 9:39 pm

    Kerry
    Your comment about people who were deinstitutionalised in the 90s is offensive. I know several of them and no way would any of them vote National.
66. Dan 66

    6 November 2008 at 9:40 pm

    I love the story from Key tonight which is a desperate innoculation against the inevitability of Douglas in Cabinet if the Right get anywhere near government. He forgets that if he says “No!” to Douglas, it will be “Bye bye John!”, not Douglas.
67. gobsmacked 67

    6 November 2008 at 9:50 pm

    Well done, Dan. Can we make you MSM political editor?

    Douglas getting into Parliament is a huge story, and some of us (modesty forbids … ) have been saying for a long time that ACT would pick up enough support from National to get him in – maybe more.

    Is there any political journalist who can be bothered to explain to voters what “support on confidence and supply” means? (Sadly, it seems not).

    It means: Roger Douglas votes for National’s budget. And if John Key is to keep his promises, that means voting for a lot of extra spending – more than Labour in some areas. Roger will love that.

    He’ll hold his tongue for, oh, a week maybe. Then it’s all on.
68. Pascal's bookie 68

    6 November 2008 at 9:52 pm

    Anyone see 3news? Thought I heard them say that Kees has been getting death threats from the uncivil libertarians that are all upset about the secret taping of National Party truths.

    Could have been mistaken though as I was defending the goldfish from the death threat posed by the two year old.

    Nothing on their website yet.
69. bobo 69

    6 November 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Kiwigirl – Have you thought that Helen Clark might actually enjoy spending time with people and community groups at weekends and doesn’t see it as just a job that involves overtime.. My point was that she was the most approachable PM I can remember , I can’t remember Jenni Shipley doing the same but thats just an observation, and having children has nothing to do with being more involved than just at election time.

    Dan – yeah the Lange warning to Key story about putting Douglas in cabinet was very well timed to put voters mind at ease, I wonder if it was a press release..
70. Janet 70

    6 November 2008 at 10:06 pm

    Kees and Key – they must by karmically linked.
    Personally, I’m looking forward to hearing from Jeremy Well’s psychics on Eating Media Lunch.
71. bobo 71

    6 November 2008 at 10:09 pm

    yes Pascal he had received them I didn’t catch it was from any group as such, not sure if he was not going to release the rest of the tapes either now.. seems an over the top response threaten to kill someone for some squidgy tapes.
72. Pascal's bookie 72

    6 November 2008 at 10:29 pm

    thanks bobo, I guess it’s just some of whale’s more excitable readers. lovely bunch.
73. gingercrush 73

    6 November 2008 at 10:42 pm

    Looking at the two polls tonight. And I am a National party supporter.

    Even if the Maori party won six or seven seats. Under Tv One’s poll that gives National-Act-United Future 62 seats. Labour-Green-Progressives-Maori would be 62 or 63 seats.

    In Tv 3’s National-Act-United Future 64 seats Labour-Green-Progressives-Maori 61 or 62 seats.

    Under that scenario TV3’s poll would be better for National supporters. But I don’t see Maori picking up six or seven seats. I think they may pick up five. Which on TV One’s is National-Act-United Future 62 Labour-Green-Progressive-Maori 61. TV3’s National-Act-United Future 64 Labour-Green-Progressives-Maori 60.

    And clearly if Maori keep the current number of seats that is even better and shows no path for Labour to govern. And even if worse case scenario Maori does get seven seats and poll results are what TV One had today. Maori may still side with National. And one reason they may decide to have some type of arrangement with National, is that the public won’t rest easy if Labour is somehow manage to win the election. I know the experts and commentators etc think we should be talking about blocs. But to me, the public doesn’t see it that way whatsoever.

    Of course if the polls are wrong and a left-wing block gets a higher percentage. I still think Maori will side with National.
74. burt 74

    6 November 2008 at 10:44 pm

    bobo

    The death threats are probably also from Labour supporters who are pissed off with the damage Kees is doing to the Labour party campaign. Remind me again who this guy is really supporting?

    Either Kees is a Labour insider about to be the scapegoat for the negative implications or he’s scuppering Labour. The plot thickens.
75. Vinsin 75

    6 November 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Burt, you’re talking utter bollocks as usual. He’s a left-wing activist, not involved with Labour. Death threats would more than likely come from the people that seem to follow your particular values.
76. barnsleybill 76

    6 November 2008 at 11:06 pm

    Kees should look both ways when crossing the road for the next few days, and especially keep an eye out for large seven series beemers with govt plates. The damage he has wrought on labour rivals the bumbling twit that is Mike Williams.
    Luckily for kees the danger should pass within a week or so, the BMW fleet is likely to change hands next week.
77. Outofbed 77

    6 November 2008 at 11:15 pm

    Labour 44
    National 58
    Greens 12
    Maori 5
    ACT 3
    United 1
    Progressive 1

    TOTAL 124 (4 seat overhang)
    If its 62 each then what happens ?
78. barnsleybill 78

    6 November 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Maori do a supply and confidence with the nats and the wheels fall of the tired old red bus.
79. gobsmacked 79

    6 November 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Speaking of death threats, the Taranaki farmer Doug Hancock, who told Helen Clark to “get out of the country while you still can”, in a letter containing a white powder initially feared to be anthrax (as he intended), was up for sentencing on Nov 5. He caused major disruption in Wellington earlier this year.

    But when he was caught, tried and convicted, naturally the media ignored the story.
80. gingercrush 80

    6 November 2008 at 11:20 pm

    Hmm I would think the Maori party has no choice but to be in some arrangement with National. Because on your seat numbers, National-Act-United Future-Maori would have 67 and a clear majority. The only other way would be for United Future to switch to a Labour-led coalition giving them 63 National-Act 62.

    If the Maori Party or United Future refused to move there’d be no choice we’d have to go back to the polls.

    But basically either United Future has to side with Labour or more likely the Maori party has no choice but to side with National.
81. burt 81

    6 November 2008 at 11:21 pm

    If Maori and Nats do a supply and confidence then ipredict=myfriend.
82. gingercrush 82

    6 November 2008 at 11:26 pm

    I mean if United Future switched to Labour. That would be Labour led 63 National-Act 61

    (Couldn’t seem to edit)
83. Vinsin 83

    6 November 2008 at 11:29 pm

    Ginger, the maori party has no choice but to side with national?” Um, that’s not really how it works: if their constituents say no to National, they would have to say no to National – otherwise their party wouldn’t be the Maori party and they would be contributing to their own demise.

    Oh, unless their constituents say yes, then it’s done and dusted. But in my opinion their constituents siding with john key is still highly unlikely.
84. gingercrush 84

    6 November 2008 at 11:35 pm

    They would have to explain to their constituents that otherwise there can be no government meaning they’d have to go back to the polls.

    I actually think, the Maori people are going to go back to their Maraes etc and ask what they want in the government. I’m not sure they’re gonna go back and ask their people do we go with Labour or National. Now that could do harm to their future, sure. But I think if it was 62-62. Either United Future has to break or the Maori Party has to break. If neither were willing and we had to go back to the polls. I would suggest that it is Labour who would be punished. If it really is 62-62 the media will place so much pressure on the Maori party they have to come to some relationship with a National-led government.
85. Robin Grieve 85

    6 November 2008 at 11:39 pm

    The labour people sound like those really pathetic no friends type who have to crash other parties because they are so lonely.
    The labour bus has left town, just sad sacks left stewing in their own negativity and bitterness.
86. Vinsin 86

    7 November 2008 at 12:13 am

    ginger, i would actually think Dunne would break before the maori party. He just wants to be in government, period.
87. tsmithfield 87

    7 November 2008 at 5:58 am

    I think the undecideds will fall into line with National to ensure a clean result. It would not surprise me if there is a landslide and National can govern alone if it wants to.
88. John 88

    7 November 2008 at 6:24 am

    Don’t be surprised to see the Maori Party and the Greens in government with National after next week. The Greens will want the ability to effect policy after being shut out last time.
89. Positive and ambitious 89

    7 November 2008 at 7:15 am

    Having scored the highest marks in the country in the old school C days, I’ve always struggled with the dimwittedness of the average punter.
    It’s great that there is a party for the slow and deluded to vote for, I’m just disappointed that there seem to be more than three people that would vote for someone as obviously unsuitable to lead as Key. I feel embarrassed and ashamed to be a New Zealander.
    Anyone with a job (for now), a child, or a mortgage who thinks they will be better off under National/Act deserves all the misery that will be heaped upon them next year if we end up with a sub prime minister.

    Good luck to everyone tomorrow!
90. Julian Garrett 90

    7 November 2008 at 8:31 am

    “When a protester asked Key today to “tell the truth’ on the changes he would make to the Employment Relations Act, Key responded “the truth is you’re an idiot’. If you’re cracking under the pressure of a few plane trips and campaign stops, you’re not up to the real job”

    And Clarke would have torn the guy limb from limb. If you want to talk about someone who is not up to the real job, take a look at Clarke after the first leaders debate having a cry the next day. If you want poor behaviour, there it is.
91. Swampy 91

    7 November 2008 at 8:43 am

    Y’know what? I probably won’t be any better off next year as a result of the election. I will be better off as a result of my own hard work. That’s what the real message of life should be. Anyone can make their life better by their own efforts and hard work. I’m voting for a government that rewards hard work instead of taking my tax dollars and giving them to people who don’t want to.
92. Carol 92

    7 November 2008 at 8:55 am

    Yeah yeah. Do you know how hard some people work for low wages? And I’ve seen some high paid free-loaders who gain from others hard work. Life under a right government would be far less fair than now.
93. Matthew Pilott 93

    7 November 2008 at 9:39 am

    “I’m voting for a government that rewards hard work instead of taking my tax dollars and giving them to people who don’t want to.”

    A government that rewards hard work? What with? A K-mart gift certificate and a gold star in your report card? Why do all these righties talk about independence and hard work, and then say they want to be ‘rewarded’ for it by the state? Nanny state says: “Good on you swampy. Well done! Nanny is so proud of you.”

    Dripping sarcasm aside, you think that a government will be rewarding you for hard work by reducing your tax by $1000 if you earn an extra $100,000 on top of your first $100,000? I’d have thought the extra $61,000 would be the reward. What an absolute crock, swampy. Those tired old lines bear no semblance to reality, and shouldn’t fool anyone able to earn a decent sum.

    To be a bit more on topic: if you believe that, you deserve Key’s own words: “You’re an idiot”.
94. higherstandard 94

    7 November 2008 at 9:52 am

    Relying on any government to make “life fair” is delusional – get off your chuffs people life is what you make it.
95. Dom 95

    7 November 2008 at 10:26 am

    Oh my god, this whole ‘the poor are poor because they don’t work as hard as me’ line is SO 1990s…

    Key looked like a tosser as he tried to compare himself (again!) to Obama…honestly, the guy is clueless.
96. Tim 96

    7 November 2008 at 3:13 pm

    “you think that a government will be rewarding you for hard work by reducing your tax by $1000 if you earn an extra $100,000 on top of your first $100,000? I’d have thought the extra $61,000 would be the reward.”

    The point is that I EARNED the extra $100,000. My employer PAID the extra $100,000. And through my extra value to my employer the government gets an extra $39,000 to redistribute? Never mind that on my first $100,000 I’ve already paid around $34,000 to the government to redistribute. Perhaps I could argue that I’ve already paid my share of infrastructure and welfare costs and all income over $100,000 tax-free? Do you think I use more public services as I earn more? I wouldn’t be using the roads more than I already do, I’d probably have private health cover and maybe private schools for my kids so perhaps I’m actually costing the country less.

    By the way, I actually earn way less than $100k, this was theoretical.
97. Chess Player 97

    10 November 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Tim,

    If you are trying to stimulate debate on this topic, you are going about it the wrong way, with your logic and reason.

    This is why the trail ended after your comment.

    My suggestion would be to insert some personal invective or even better, some trite dogma into your posts – that always works and gets attention.

    Have a nice day…

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