- Date published:
7:30 pm, February 24th, 2015 - 81 comments
Categories: brand key, iraq, john key, Syria, war - Tags:
John Key’s frothing exhortation to Andrew Little in Parliament to “get some guts” reminds one of opera’s famous Duke of Plazatoro “who led his regiment from behind, he found it less exciting.” Key’s not going to Iraq – our soldiers are the ones in danger.
For those not brought up on Gilbert and Sullivan the lyrics of the “Gondoliers” song are:
In enterprise of martial kind,
When there was any fighting,
He led his regiment from behind
(He found it less exciting).
But when away his regiment ran,
His place was at the fore, O-
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
When, to evade Destruction’s hand,
To hide they all proceeded,
No soldier in that gallant band
Hid half as well as he did.
He lay concealed throughout the war,
And so preserved his gore, O!
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
Mind you I did think it curious that the SAS would be deployed to protect “high-level visits.” Sounds like Key’s going to make sure he’s looked after if he goes there for a photo-op later.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in his [r0b: agree with comment below, I think that idea is over the top], nothing will build support for his case like it.
He’ll spin it as vindication of him sending kiwis over.
Yes, and ironically John Key has made New Zealand a much less safe place with the decision to rejoin this flawed war.
Perhaps he’s also looking forward to a few home casualties in order to vindicate his weak-willed and poorly considered stance.
The sad thing is if kiwis die abroad or at home the masses will forget they were warned and they will bay for blood.
“The sad thing is if kiwis die abroad or at home the masses will forget they were warned and they will bay for blood.”
Key know this, and should something happen, will exploit it for all it’s worth. Particularly with the up and coming security / intelligence review.
I doubt he is “looking forward” to anyone dying. he may spin it a particular way if/when it happens but to suggest he is somehow eagerly awaiting deaths is an indictment of you.
I’m glad you still think more highly of our dear leader, I think he’s a horrible blight on nzs political history.
Reading is a skill best undertaken when the red mist has subsided
Thanks Tracey. Well put. Whatever one’s opinion of Key it is outrageous of anyone to suggest that anyone wants a kiwi soldier to be returned home in a body bag. That is cynicism of the very darkest and self-destructive kind.
Cynical yes self destructive no, not that key would give a shit about what I think, I would not give him the power of making me hate him. I just want him gone.
Wow. Really wish the moderators would remove comments like this. B Waghorn you sick fu*k. This is well beyond the level of right wing trolling that gets people banned around here.
[lprent: We don’t remove comments unless people have already picked up a ban. We may delete segments of a comment, and/or we may give a abrupt ban.
Since r0b already removed the offending body, I can’t give a ban because I can’t see what it was. However he has made it on to my watch list now that r0b warned him. ]
Well you’re right of course, Key couldn’t even be bothered to attend Kiwi soldiers funerals previously as he had important US engagements to attend, so I’m sure he won’t be bothered next time either.
B Waghorn makes a valid point. Key would not only use any deaths as validation, he would love an opportunity to work on his statesman like gravitas shtick and shed some more crocodile tears at very public funeral, as he did for the Pike 29.
If, as CV points out, he’s here in New Zealand on holiday at the time and can be arsed attending.
it is different to suggest Key would use deaths as validation than to suggest he actually wants deaths to further his spin (as b waghorn wrote).
@economix Seeing as you are the guardian of the moral high ground was what I said sicker than key using the death of the the Jordanian pilot to justify a decision made before the pilot died ?.?
Your comment went too far (as rightly pointed out by Tracey).
Agree, Key’s decision was likely well advanced before the death of the Jordanian pilot, however I don’t believe I have read any statements that the killing of the Jordanian pilot was the sole catalyst for Key’s decision announced yesterday. The decision was likely based on the close monitoring of events over the last few months.
I don’t for a second believe that any politician is wanting NZ soldiers returned in body bags in order to justify decisions they have made. Do you think Norman wants soldiers brought back in coffins in order to justify his stance against sending troops? Absolutely not.
Left vs. Right…political gain etc. bear no relevance when you raise an issue such as this.
I’ll leave it at that.
[audio src="http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/BU/Jerry_Gray_and_his_Orchestra_Vocal_Chorus_by_Thurl_Ravenscroft_-_And_the_Bull_Walked_Around_Olay.mp3" /]
It’s a pity that Key needs to demonstrate his possession of guts by spilling other peoples’.
He’d be far more use if we sent him to the Caliph in a box with this note attached:
“Dear Caliph, this vicious little tosser shares more of your values than he does ours. We’ll treat you the way you treat him.”
Seems odd that he hasn’t offered to set up a decent stock exchange for them, given money is the answer to every dilemna in his world…
Well ole to you. We will have to stop talking about the elephant in the room, its bulls that you have to look out for.
Just thinking that Margaret Thatcher found the Falkland War took people’s minds of more pressing matters at home. With her it was loose lips sink ships. With yek it could be loud moans bring drones.
A Python Ode for Chicken-hawk Key….
Brave Sir Robin ran away
Bravely ran away, away
(I didn’t !)
When danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about and gallantly he chickened out
(I didn’t !)
Bravely taking to his feet he beat a very brave retreat
(All lies !!!)
Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Robin !
(I never !!!)
“Guts” would have been calling a parliamentary vote on the issue.
Haha, well spotted.
Excellent, observant, pertinent comment, Ant!
I grieve deeply tonight that such an inadequate personality heads our government! …scared stiff to put the decision to parliament, let alone the people. Strange really because dictators are seldom if ever known for being wimps. It also behoves a leader to be well versed in history.
Yes a shameful and sad day for New Zealand.
Witness his behaviour in parliament today, behaving like the school year bully.
Then this tosser.
Where did you get the idea that dictators are brave? They are consumed by cowardice. Imagine the National Party without an opposition: Sabinism, money laundering, they can barely contain themselves as it is.
dictators run for the hills when stuff goes pear-shaped… “brave”only while the guns are pointing at their citizens
hi heather, while i absolutely agree with your sentiments, i feel duty bound to point out ( what i feel is a truth), we get the government we deserve.
i work with a group of twenty somethings.
i mentioned we were off to war this morning.
blank looks from the three of them.
i briefly outlined (in a neutral fashion) what was happening and they all politely waited for me to stop so they could carry on with what they were up to.
vietnam has no meaning to them.
bush war one and bush war two (thank you michael franti) has no meaning to them.
personally it beggars belief that the populace is not up in arms (excuse the pun) at the notion we are off to train the iraqi army and to pin point air strikes for uncle sam.
NZ’s own Tony Blair.
Thinking of bulls and then of Spain and then of Manuel. This skit from Fawlty Towers reminds so much of trying to talk to Mr John Key who speaks another language from that of most of this country. I think we need John Cleese to explain matters to him.
hey grey, brilliant!
hevent choo lee!
Glad you liked it gsays. What a day when yek would say humbly and with commitment, ‘I learn, I learn’ eve hen toolly.
What an extraordinary tirade from Key!!!!
I thought he looked drunk and unbalanced.
The more he carries on like that the better the chance he’ll have a massive coronary…
“Get some guts” screams the spineless piece of shit that ran from Sue Bradford and a couple of protestors. What a disgraceful piece of shit.
“Get some guts” screams the spineless piece of shit that protects pedophiles. Fucking deranged wanker is all he is and all he’ll ever be.
My thoughts exactly Anne – I watched this afternoon’s charade and I really thought John Key was about to self destruct during that final speech. I kept watching for a while and was wondering if the paramedics were going to make a dramatic entry to cart JK out of the house – the clerk kept topping his water glass up, so poor wee Johnny must have become a bit dehydrated after all that expended energy/hot air.
Anne, do you really think that your hoping that Key has a coronary adds anything whatsoever to civilised and intelligent debate? It simply shows that you have very serious personal problems that need to be addressed. Seek professional help.
“your hoping that Key has a coronary ”
no one has said this – read it again
Have you never heard of tongue-in-cheek man? A bit of black humour perhaps? I think you are the one who needs some professional help. A sense of humour – and indeed irony – are necessary requisites for a well rounded state of mind. Rightwingers (and idiots) don’t understand irony and political humour. Is this why?
Also, anyone who uses the meaningless puffery “addressing something” is suspect…
hi music, if you are ever to get passionate about a subject, surely sending someone elses children off to war is a time to do it.
and if the unthinkable (a massive coronary) were to occur, i am sure he is well insured and there fore it would be fiscally neutral, so no problems.
yes kenny – I too was fascinated by it.
Can’t decide if it was because he was actually SURPRISED and therefore rattled by the degree of opposition expressed in the house.
Or whether it has now got to the point where he feels that any kind of opposition to his “masterful insight as NZ’s top prime-Ministerial performer in our short history” needs to be beaten to death with a tirade of inarticulate mumbo-jumbo.
“I’m fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in.”
― George S. McGovern
I’ve always been proud of my “NZ Passport”, Key’s fucked that.
Key thinks he has guts sending our tiny contingent of a few soldiers to the war against ISIL?
No, it is the SOLDIERS that are asked to go there that have the guts. Ironically, most of these soldiers, if not all of them, do NOT come from the homes of Key’s mates, the wealthy families. It is the children of the poor and less wealthy that go to die for these big mouthed arm chair ‘gutzy’ rich whips.
When USA has spent TRILLIONS of dollars, high grade weapons and machinery, deployed with hundreds of thousands of soldiers there for over a dozen years with hundreds of thousands of deaths caused and being quite unsuccessful or only partially successful in their mission so far, for Key or anyone to think that we would make any meaningful difference there is a joke. Our contribution should have been more useful/appropriate with financial, educational, medical and other aid to the surrounding nations fighting there and help to the thousands of refugees, destitute families and children.
ISIL are despicable evil and deserve to be stopped and eliminated, but it is a religious/political ideology and hard to eliminate it by military force alone. Other ways of changing them should be explored. USA, its big allies and the countries in the middle East are taking the military option anyway. There is NO useful or logical reason for NZ to get involved in MILITARY action there under the present circumstances.
Armchair generals like TRP think that ISIS is going to be pushed back like clock work over the next 6 to 12 months. It’s fucking fantasy land.
And you are quite right to remind us – you cannot defeat an idea with guns, bombs and rockets.
I got very angry and dismayed when Key implied that Andrew Little and HALF the MPs in parliament (except National and the sole ACT), as well as most of the people of this country, are cowards with no guts for not supporting our troop deployment! What an arrogant, despicable and stupid statement from Key, the same man who did not even have the memory, honesty or guts to know WHOSE SIDE HE WAS ON during the springbok evil rugby tour!
How ridiculous and so predictable the left play the your not going and putting our troops in harms way bs. The last time I looked the nz army was not a conscript army, this what you sign up for and all indication are the 100 ( yes 100) troops are happy to go, that’s what they train for. Rolling out the argument re children of the poor is also bollocks ( what stats support this claim )
I figured that you would be OK throwing away lives in Iraq on a mission which could never be a success.
The US and UK tried for over 10 years to train the Iraqi Army. And they ran away the moment ISIS turned up. Not that you care that our troops are being sent to fail.
I said “most of these soldiers, if not all of them, do NOT come from the homes of Key’s mates, the wealthy families. It is the children of the poor and less wealthy” that join the army to protect our shores.
It would be interesting to see the army statistics regarding, in Key’s words, children of what ‘class’ and ‘underclass’ join the army.
My observation and common sense tells me that most soldiers come from poor or less wealthy families and practically NONE come from the wealthy or corporate families.
If you think I am wrong, then either you know better or you have an agenda or you are a RWNJ fool.
In spite of all that, it is very STUPID, unnecessarily RISKY and practically MEANINGLESS for NZ to send a SMALL military contingent there, except for pure propaganda or as a token presence. Think about it.
& yet these same soldiers will be asking for help & sympathy when they come back with weird psychological disorders or long lasting injuries that the govt wont pay for or even admit til years later, you would think they would know by now.
More cliche from Rawsardine. Isis isn’t an idea they are a cult, they need to be destroyed on a number of fronts including training the locals to deal to them when the feel ready
I hear squawking noises from yet another chicken shit chicken hawk.
grab a handful of water
squeeze it tight
do you now understand why we cannot beat fanaticism with conventional warfare?
Might work to rid us of Key though…
It is like trying to eliminate say the ‘racists’ or ‘gangs’ with fire power. Even if possible, first you need to IDENTITY who is ‘racist’ or ‘who is in the gang’.
Not easy with ISIL individuals. They don’t even SHOW their faces when fighting. So definitely won’t show it when not fighting. Could be a local doctor or a teacher or a postman there! Sure, many may be killed and many houses may be destroyed and many families eliminated, but what happens in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, 50 years? Will they be vanished permanently? A long haul. There is no easy exit strategy. ISIL have succeeded in drawing the west in. Why? Because, I think, they have a long term cunning and evil strategy. I will be very very happy if I am wrong.
Besides, ISIL sympathisers are all over the world and their birth rate is much higher than those of other communities.
It ain’t easy. ‘Houston We Have A Problem’! Calm minds and smart thinking is what is needed.
Can you tell me the date we knew that the Taleban and Al Qaeda stopped killing people?
That’s why the locals need to deal with them freedom with a bit of training plus conventional warfare, drones ( wipe out their leadership) and closing off their funding and economic lines
Here’s rawshark going on about shit again, interesting disorder
You little chicken shit chicken hawk, you have no idea and no care about the actual conditions on the ground. It’s degenerating into a civil war and NZ should have no part in it. Not that you give a shit.
You have not much idea about what and who are ISL, who funds them, how they run their outfits, why thousands join them, including lots from western and other countries, how they have modern sophisticated weapons, how they are said to EARN over 45 million dollars a day, etc do you?
“That’s why the locals need to deal with them freedom with a bit of training plus conventional warfare”—That was funny.
Do you understand that the US and others have been training the “locals” since 2003?
Now, closing off their funding is a good idea. Who IS sellling ISIL their weapons, let’s cut it off there.
You loose me between all the shits rawshark, also preoccupation with birds, interesting psychological dynamic going on here
how about you address the replies from other people calling you on your weak foaming?
Funding Saudis’ oil, confiscated weapons, etc yep got an idea need to ( using a raw shark colloquialism) sort that shit out as well ( could not get a chicken or hawk in, sorry)
the Israeli Security Intelligence Services have already been busted hoaxing video’s with mock executions, really who wears a woolen balaclava in sweltering desert heat? – might look o.k with a green screen but really anyone who wants to buy these false flag attacks better wake up, these fake attacks are on a world tour from Sandy Hook ,Canada ,Paris ,Sydney ,Copenhagen ….. meanwhile the arms dealers make money selling to both sides, NZ you’ve been had!!.
Though I’m sure Israel’s SIS have no qualms about hoaxing right left and centre, it is presently winter or early spring in the middle east, and balaclavas could be seen reasonably often about one month ago…
What makes you think it is never cold in a desert?
What is “cold” for someone who lives their life in a desert?
Links Tracy , I’m Glad you asked
(yes my mistake on the ‘Secret’ which I incorrectly wrote as ‘Security’)
ISIS revealed as ISRAELI SECRET INTELLIGENCE SERVICE
RT – “I.S.I.S. Could Stand For… Israeli Secret Intelligence Service”
Expert On Fox News Admits ISIS Video Is Fake, Using Green Screen and Teleprompter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M5BSCMVhRQ
EXPLAINED: Why the Isis Beheading Videos are Fake
there are many more sources out there, for those willing to look – the MSM is owned by multinationals with an invested interest, some of these hoaxes have been pulled off when drills go live (such as with the London 7/7 bombings when there was a terror drill going on at the same time, planned earlier) so not all these people are crisis actors, but they are being lied to by their own governments to push the agenda, why have we not seen 1 bonified ISIS Soldier? (& I don’t mean jehad johnny who was ‘identified’ via his eyes)
Hollywood Studio Busted Producing ISIS Videos
also are ISIS not allies with the U$ against Syrian government? .
is there any coincidence that ISIS has the same enemies as Israel?
there are much documentation showing the U$ dropping supplies to ISIS as well as acting its air force in syria. I hope that you look beyond the MSM & actually look at sources from the people on the ground (its same situation in Ukraine – where all in the MSM is not at all what is going on, just what they want you to know)
and my other two questions?
hi tracey, how about if the first question is answered satisfactorily doesnt it render your other two questions moot?
only if it were.
The overarching point is that the Israeli government is quite happy that Assad is screwed, Iran’s ambitions in Iraq are screwed, and both Iraq and Syria are finished as regional powers.
And Israel has a track record of supporting and funding fundamentalist, hard line Muslim militancy when it suits them. Hamas is the poster child for this.
As Blackadder would say Yes Keys is right behind our troops , 10,000 miles behind them. Full of shit little pro US toady.
It also takes more GUTS to put the question to an open vote (or preferably a conscience or secret vote) in parliament before sending a COMBAT force of our soldiers to a distant land, than the GUTS it takes to scream in parliament that we are gutless or to cow tow to the wishes of the USA or the Five I’s Club or claim amnesia about one’s position on the nation-dividing Springbok tour!
No privileged wealthy crooked right wing politician should ever question the GUTS of the left wing who generally work against great odds in the interests of the underdog and help bring about revolutions,changes and reforms, and usher in the most significant changes in civilisation and society around the world.
key showed no guts when he no show for funerals of two dead kiwi soldiers.~gave shit excuse. his sons rugby game more important not someone else’s son’s death
It was a baseball game, which makes it even worse methinks!
Yes I too am fed up with gutless men supporting futile wars for young men to fight
and die in.
PM’s with guts would feed the poor and house the homeless.
John Key you say you are a money man? I say
a man with GUTS would achieve much more with $65 million
“I wouldn’t be surprised if in his [r0b: agree with comment below, I think that idea is over the top], nothing will build support for his case like it.
He’ll spin it as vindication of him sending kiwis over.”
Agreed. Though it should have many baying for Key’s head as he will be the one with blood on his hands.
RON MARK made a very good speech and asked a few specific questions about the issue of ISIL and our combat soldiers being deployed there.
But what was brilliant was the way he directly pulled up and told Paul Goldsmith to button up his stupid ignorant mouth when Goldsmith was interrupting his serious concerns.
Do watch it when it gets put up on line.
General Speech #3.
Well done, Ron Mark. Excellent.
Watch the speech from Ron Mark about ISIL and guts and his EXCELLENT telling off to the idiot, Goldsmith who was behaving like a prick when Ron Mark was speaking. You must watch it! The first two minutes of this link:
This story, if true, would be pretty relevant to the troop deployment issue one would expect: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/02/24/iraqi-army-downs-2-uk-planes-carrying-weapons-for-isil/