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Kim Dotcom vs John Key

Written By: - Date published: 2:10 pm, July 3rd, 2013 - 233 comments
Categories: accountability, democratic participation, john key, Spying - Tags: , ,

This afternoon Kim Dotcom is making a submission to the Intelligence and Security Select Committee, which is chaired by John Key (starting 3:30pm). 3 News is livestreaming the session. Update: Apparently Dotcom is scheduled for 5pm. Update: Apparently his time has been cut down to 15 min – wonder why…

If you want to know how Key treats this Committee see this piece by Audrey Young. No doubt Key will refuse to engage with Dotcom too.

Update: Check out Campbell Live at 7.

What else wld Kim Dotcom have said with more time? When did the PM first find out about him? Kim Dotcom live at 7pm “

233 comments on “Kim Dotcom vs John Key”

  1. framu 1

    the comments on the audrey young piece are interesting – especially for a herald comments section

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1

      Not mention the number of “likes” they’re getting 🙂

      • weka 1.1.1

        Bright started with a lecture about how Key does deals like the Sky City convention centre – “your deals over dinner, deals over the phone – that might be customary practice in how you do things as a foreign exchange dealer or the head of derivatives for Merrill Lynch but that is no way to run a country”.

        On the spy bill, she wanted him to open up all his trust accounts, bank accounts, Swiss bank accounts, tax havens. “Nothing to hide, nothing to fear, come on Prime Minister; you show me yours and I’ll show you mine.”

        Key looked like he really wanted to engage: “Okay Penny, thanks very much. Your time has expired.”

        Go Penny! And good on Young for reporting that.

        • Winston Smith 1.1.1.1

          “Okay Penny, thanks very much. Your time has expired.”

          – Quite polite from John Key

          • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1

            yeah. Surprised he didn’t make a throat-slitting motion.

          • North 1.1.1.1.2

            Great that Penny Bright owns the Prime Minister. No disrespect to you Penny, if I had your balls they’d call me Errol Flynn on Viagra. Just goes to show how badly that ponce has debased the currency of the office of Prime Minister.

    • weka 1.2

      “the comments on the audrey young piece are interesting”

      The astroturfers’ day off?

  2. I wonder if Dotcom will disclose that he and Key have met in the past?

    • Veutoviper 2.1

      I’ve wondered that for a very long time.
      I also found Winston Peters’ questions under Q1 yesterday in the House interesting – especially the fact that he did not follow-up on any of Key’s affirmatives. Most unlike Winston … A set-up for today, perhaps?

      Winston is the only Party Leader not on the Intelligence and Security Statutory Committee….

    • paul andersen 2.2

      I have been asking this question on the herald website for over a year ,and they have consistently refused to publish my post. I find it hard to believe that the richest man in keys electorate, and known as a soft touch for polies(step up john banks) was not touched for bucks by either key personally or , more likely , a bagman, chief of staff, etc.

    • Dotcom just said that he did know Key beforehand and noted that Key was turning red. Methinks they have met and Key for whatever reason is wanting to forget the meeting.

      • phillip ure 2.3.1

        i read that as dotcom saying that key knew that he (dotcom) was being illegally spooked on long before he (key) has admitted to..

        ..(which..if dotcom is correct..and can prove it..has key lying to parliament/the media/the new zealand public..)

        http://whoar.co.nz/2013/livestream-kim-dotcom-vs-john-key/

        (excerpt:..

        “….but then in response to a question from shearer..dotcom confirmed that he knew that john key knew about him being spooked on long before the date key has admitted to knowing..

        ..dotcom looked directly at key..and said “..you know that i know mr key..”

        ..key replied:..”i know that you don’t know..!;..

        ..dotcom:..’why are you turning red prime minister..?’

        key:..’why are you perspiring..?’..(!)..

        dotcom:..’i am hot..i have a scarf..’

        (ed:..so that was dotcom one -key zero..)..”

        phillip ure..

        • mickysavage 2.3.1.1

          Um Yep you might be right Phil. I would be really surprised if they had not met but Dotcom may have been talking about Key’s knowledge of Dotcom before the raid.

          • Brett Dale 2.3.1.1.1

            Dot com yet to show the evidence that key knew.

            Hes milking this cow, for as long as possible and your falling for it.

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.3.1.1.1.1

              That’s one possible scenario. Or perhaps he understands the value of:

              1. Timing in an election cycle and
              2. Respecting the judge who holds his freedom in their hands by not attempting a trial by media before he has his day in court.

            • Sable 2.3.1.1.1.2

              Yes forget the evidence or the courts decision to allow Dotcom to seek recompense from the government for wrongful search. And lets forget the revelations of spying which were completely separate but just proved this point.

              Its all an act and Keys is lily white.

      • Herodotus 2.3.2

        From the news just on .com asked key if key knew “of” him which is different to what you are saying. This may assist in what was said 🙂
        http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/kim-dotcom-why-you-turning-red-prime-minister-video-5486610

      • North 2.3.3

        He will “forget” it but if he does, well that strains credulity more than the assertion that Botox Banks Ain’t Closet.

      • Tim 2.3.4

        The problem with pathological liars (and Masters of the Universe alike) is that they often forget their bullshit and end up tying themselves in knots. The harder they rise …. the harder they fall (with apologies to Bernie Madoff). Key is on the verge.

  3. r0b 3

    Apparently Dotcom’s time has been cut down to 15 min – wonder why…

  4. felix 4

    It’s so weird.

    Yesterday Key sat through the entire session without asking a single question, but today he’s chatty cathy.

    I can’t figure out what’s changed.

    SO weird.

  5. Twitter is going wild. IS and a few of the reporters are providing live commentary using the #GCSB hashtag.

    • No it anit, GCSB isnt in the top trends.

      here are the top trends for nz.

      #nrlbriwar
      #TitaniumTattoo
      #LetsGoneWarriors
      #GoT
      #GameOfThrones
      Broncos
      Moorhouse
      #WarriorNation
      #xfactornz
      #airnzgetyourgeekon

      Unless mickysavage wants to manipulative it? Classy!

      • mickysavage 5.1.1

        Gawd can’t the Tr0ll collective send over someone better than Brett?

      • Pascal's bookie 5.1.2

        Heh:

        Updated, coz Brett will be getting right on that:

        New Zealand Trends ·
        #GCSB
        John Key
        Sounds
        #SpyHearing
        Wellington
        New Zealand
        #nzqt
        Kim Dotcom
        Auckland
        Maori

  6. Rosie 6

    Thanks for the 5pm slamdown heads up. Wish I had some chips and a drink handy for this one.

  7. A fat cocaine taking, hooker loving, woman hating, racist, sexist, pornographer, German, who owns a webpage, against the Prime Minister.

    It will be like yesterday, Key will wipe the floor with him.

  8. The love affair labour party supporters have with kim dot com is equal to the
    love affair people who watch faux news have with donald trumpy.

    • felix 8.1

      And, as you pointed out above, he’s a German!

      • Brett Dale 8.1.1

        Exactly. So he must be racist.

        • framu 8.1.1.1

          i cant tell if you just dont get jokes or whether your joining in

          • Brett Dale 8.1.1.1.1

            A little bit from column a and a little bit from column b.

            • marty mars 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Right I see – you are just bullshitting about a serious topic that hurts lots of people – fuck that is sickman

              • Marty:

                No, Im just helping you guys understand you dont want to follow a guy like dot com, just because he doesnt like john key, every over the board post, doesnt help your cause.

                • maybe you should stop chugging your cough medicine this early in the evening fuckwit

                  • marty:

                    man if you had a swear jar you would be rich.

                    • fender

                      Yeah ‘cos paying yourself with your own money for swearing is a sure way to get rich eh Brett. Makes as much sense as selling your income-earning assets, idiot.

                • McFlock

                  see, most people would look at “giving john banks $50k” enough of a reason.

                  But just because one is not particularly enamoured with a chap’s politics does not mean that one cannot enjoy watching the chap embarrass and make life difficult for other chaps with whom one is also not particularly enamoured.

    • North 8.2

      Well according to your morals Bretty Sir Kim Dotcom being a billi’ must be 20 times more brilliant and supportable and generally more loveable than your cheap Shonkey Python not cutting it 50 milli’.

  9. Key is showing his technical prowess, he apparently said that if we do not want our emails read then we can encrypt them BUT under the TICS Bill it will have to be encryption interception capable …

    Does he understand the effect of the bills?

  10. Boy dot com has lost some weight.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 10.1

      But you will always be a lightweight.

    • AmaKiwi 10.2

      “Boy dot com has lost some weight.”

      Great. He’s the best thing that has happened in NZ politics in ages. I want him fit and healthy so he can keep rattling the cages.

      “Kim Dotcom. The gift that just keeps on giving.” (Mickey Savage on TS.)

    • Sable 10.3

      Yes and Keys has lost no small amount of credibility. You seem to think bating other posters is going to change the truth but its not.

      • Mary 10.3.1

        I like how you call him Keys. He’s so corrupt he doesn’t deserve even the basic respect of getting his name right.

        • Tim 10.3.1.1

          It’s quite a common thing that ‘John KeyS’ thing. Even Matt McCarten does it sometimes. I think its related to the plurality of lies, duality and bullshit. The plural personality of Mr John Key – he that dragged himself up by the bootstraps, struggled through adversity from state hess dweller to ‘international Master of the Universe’.
          Paula BennettS is still in training.

  11. One Anonymous Knucklehead 11

    “This is the kind of power that leads you to hire a childhood school friend to run the whole thing…”

    “You know I know…” 😆

  12. Key kicking ass at the moment!

    • karol 12.1

      Right. GCSB should operate like a business… yeah kicking ass! 🙄

      • Waffler 12.1.1

        +1 karol.

        That was surreal. ‘People outsourced data storage to Mega Upload – all we’re doing is the same thing with state sanctioned surveillance on our citizens’. /shudder.

        • Mary 12.1.1.1

          All part of the Key et al agenda. The method these days is to do it slowly and steadily. All by stealth but with eyes always on the target. Who would’ve thought ten years ago we’d have private prisons?

          I’m waiting for the evidence Dotcom has showing Key lied. Key was visibly shaken by Dotcom. His childish behaviour near the end was disgraceful but made him look threatened by Dotcom. Hope the evidence does the business. Dotcom seems pretty confident. Could be Key’s undoing. When’s the extradition hearing?

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 12.1.2

        Spot on Karol.

        Key fucked himself with that exchange. He doesn’t understand the difference, or he does, and he’s complicit.

      • Macro 12.1.3

        Oh! I’m Sooooooooooo in Love!
        One day you’ll wake up Brett and find you’ve been lied to and someones been horribly unfaithful.

      • Brett Dale 12.1.4

        He ask the right questions without having pathetic snide little digs like shearer and norm.

        • Pascal's bookie 12.1.4.1

          lol.

          No snide asides from Key, oh hell no.

        • wtl 12.1.4.2

          Like the question about (paraphrasing) “what would you say to the families of people killed in a terrorist attack because we didn’t spy everyone”?

          Or the question about “what do you think we should do if your neighbour looks for bomb recipes on the internet”?

      • Tim 12.1.5

        GCSB should operate like a business. That may be no truer word spoken in jest. The easiest way to knobble them is to simply cease funding them. In which case they may be faced with groveling for corporate sponsorship (Hint to next government).

    • Mary 12.2

      Dotcom rattled Key hugely. Drove him to resort to childish personal abuse. “Thanks, it was fun.” Hope they show Key’s face on the TV news when Dotcom told Key he knows Key knew of raids beforehand. Key was so incensed he couldn’t withhold his anger. Showed his true colours. Utter arrogance and contempt. This is our prime minister. Quite unbelievable, really.

      • yeshe 12.2.1

        Agree Mary, +1, forced his true colours .. posted this in open mike .. did you hear this at the very end ??

        Oh dear .. the mic was live when it picked up what seemed to be John Banks saying to Slippery Key ” If we had given him ( as in Kim Dotcom) any more time, it would have ended in abuse”. ( Or was it Tony Ryall ?)

        If anyone doubted how slippery Slippery is, then please listen to this committee hearing. I love that Mr Dotcom challenged Key eye-to-eye on his lying … we owe a lot to this brilliant German Kiwi resident. Thank you, thank you for exposing these inequities in the GCSB.

        edit : I just saw on TVNZ feed as the hearing closed, it was Tony Ryall next to slippery who made the comment .. siege mentality or what ?? my goodness this gubmint are an inelegant lot.

    • AmaKiwi 12.3

      @ Brett Dale

      Wow! That’s some powerful stuff you’re smoking.

    • North 12.4

      What, by sulking. Oh you are so care centre.

  13. One Anonymous Knucklehead 13

    Tv3 feed over as soon as Kim.com finished? wtf?

  14. Appleboy 14

    Key kicking ass? Brett you are a fucking moron . Just fuck off

    • Brett Dale 14.1

      Apple:

      What did he do wrong? he came off as brilliant,and no amount of tweeting from
      members of the standard is going to change the fact in the public’s mind, this
      was a disaster for you guys, I kinda feel sorry for people here, it cant be nice to
      get your hopes up and be let down.

      • mickysavage 14.1.1

        OK Brett

        Name one “member of the standard” who tweeted.

        Go on, I dare you to …

      • yeshe 14.1.2

        yeah, and we never went nuclear-free either. your name sounds like one or two even of the original Chesdale boys ? s that who you really are ??

  15. Wow you guys must be so disappointed at that.

    Next political poll, National and Key will go up.

    You must feel right now how trumpy supporters felt with his
    big announcement

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 15.1

      Disappointed, no Brett, not really. I am disappointed at various revelations that we’ve witnessed this afternoon – that’s to be expected. Initially I was quite impressed with our mendacious wretch of a Prime Minister, who seemed to be taking things relatively (for him) seriously, but his childish outburst at Kim.com put him back in your league I’m afraid.

      But overall that was very instructive.

      Given the evidence presented at the economic damage the bill will do, the GCSB’s first task will be to investigate its authors.

      • Huginn 15.1.1

        Which raises a question that’s been niggling me lately:
        Who drafted this bill?

        • fender 15.1.1.1

          “Who drafted this bill?”

          I’d like to know the answer to that also. Right now I’m picturing Key and Fletcher drafting it up after a session of email snooping in their clubhouse spy-den.

  16. Rosie 16

    So Brett, how do think that “floor wiping’ went?

    Love the bit when dotcom said to the the PM “I know you knew me about before the raid”
    PM “No I didn’t”
    Dotcom: “So why are you going red then?” BOOM!

  17. Rosie:

    The fact that your writing boom in your reply, shows me that you really didnt watch.

    Wait till the next poll.

    • yeshe 17.1

      Oh, it wasn’t the boom Mr Chesdale — it was Kim Dotcom staring Key down that really counted. Truth will out, betcha anything Kim Dotcom has irrefutable evidence of Key’s red-faced lying and will present it when it really counts. And I did really watch. You will be Chesdale on toast !!!

    • Rosie 17.2

      Oh I was watching. Watching and laughing at Key. TV3 picked up on that little interchange, so I hardly think it went under the radar.

    • AmaKiwi 17.3

      @ Brett Dale

      “Wait till the next poll.” Yeah, like the one that shows most people now oppose the Sky pokies deal?

    • Sable 17.4

      Yes Rosie and then this condescending little twit can tell you your business yet again.

  18. Of 70 comments made so far Brett Dale has made 16 of them. He also seems to be trying to divert attention away from the question of Key’s previous interactions with Kim Dotcom.

    I wonder why?

    • yeshe 18.1

      Hi Micky … I was away travelling for a few weeks, just after The Standard was mentioned in various MSM articles. When I came back, I noticed a marked increase in pro-gubmint and slippery comments, and they seem intent upon distraction. I believe it has been deliberate but not really successful. Sort of like dear Pete George broke off a piece and multiplied — 16 out of 70 sounds about right.

  19. Tinfoilhat 19

    Difficult to know who is the biggest crook in the room during this select committee meeting with dot com.

    Would be good to have more serious reporting of the issues rather than the dot com sideshow and media circus

  20. r0b 20

    Check out Campbell Live at 7.

    What else wld Kim Dotcom have said with more time? When did the PM first find out about him? Kim Dotcom live at 7pm “

    • karol 20.1

      On 3 News tonight, Dotcom said that he was saving the evidence of when Key first knew about him for court.

  21. Pascal's bookie 21

    Hey Brett, how about when Key was asking people if they are afraid of their neighbors and worrying about them downloading bomb recipes off the internet?

    Or when he said people who are worried about the GCSB spying on NZers would be responsible for terrorism?

    What US TV News channel do those sort of arguments sound like they come from Brett?

    Or how about when he expressed surprise that people could use tools to hide themselves on the net? Did that fill you with confidence that he knows anything at all about his job overseeing the GCSB?

  22. felix 22

    Interesting from https://twitter.com/RichardAJowsey

    #ConnectTheDots 1: @JohnKeyPM makes hush-hush deal with Hollywood/MPAA: @KimDotCom piracy smackdown for NZ #hobbit movie production deals

    #ConnectTheDots 2: @JohnKeyPM authorizes NZ #GCSB to (illegally) intercept @KimDotCom phone/internet comms. Claims “I know nothing”

    #ConnectTheDots 3: @KimDotCom is arrested in dawn paramilitary raid, family terrorized, jailed for a month, assets seized, business wrecked

    #ConnectTheDots 4: @JohnKeyPM apologises for illegal #GCSB interception. US DoJ freaks out, insists “everything must be legal” #extradition

    #ConnectTheDots 5: @JohnKeyPM must *urgently* amend NZ spying laws, retrospective, so #GCSB spying on @KimDotCom is now legal.

  23. yeshe 23

    I do hope someone will pursue the question of how Kim Dotcom was told he had 25 mins to have it reduced ( only today he said) to 15 .. anybody know anything more ? thx.

  24. yeshe 24

    Also, it became obvious today listening in from 3.30 pm that very little technical expertise had been applied anywhere in writing this bill. How shameful and arrogant not to use the very best NZ minds available and then produce the rubbish that the experts said today is incoherent and unworkable.

    If Dunne wisely refuses his vote, maybe we can yet get a true public hearing ? Be a fine test of where Winston is for now … let’s see.

  25. Nicolas 25

    Greenwald’s awesome counter against the old “nothing to hide, nothing to fear” BS.
    Really relevant after Key’s terrorism this afternoon…

    His questions to Thomas Beagle, of Tech Liberty, were a fucking disgrace.

  26. One Anonymous Knucklehead 26

    Overall, Mr.com’s evidence was pretty blasé: a lecture on human rights, good context, but nothing particularly substantive.

    The other submitters were far more interesting, in particular those who referenced the economic impact on the IT industry of a 180° change in this country’s direction.

    Perhaps when all your clients are farmers, roading contractors and Hollywood executives, it’s easy to miss that sort of thing.

    • karol 26.1

      Yes. Dotcom is more about drip feeding John Key’s alleged lies.

      Campbell live did an interesting report on the submission by Dr Kate Dewes and Commander Rob Green, peace campaigners who have been under surveillance for decades.

      Sometimes Key comes across like a school boy, in his way of smearing and responding to criticism.

      Asking submitters how they’d feel if their neighbours were looking up bomb-making online….? Seriously? Parnell must be a strange neighbourhood.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 26.1.1

        Yes. Dr. Dewes and Commander Green deserve our sympathy and practical support. The GCSB could probably provide the police with evidence that would lead to the arrest of their persecutors.

        • Macro 26.1.1.1

          Now that would be a worthwhile use of their time! What those two have had to put up with – simply because they believe in a fair and non-nuclear world is quite appalling – and anyone who doubts the mischieviousness of this nasty piece of legislation needs to watch their testimony.

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 26.1.1.1.1

            The flagrant manner in which they are being harassed is clearly intended as intimidation, not surveillance.

  27. chris73 27

    Wow dot con really showed Key lol, gee you lefties must be as disappointed with this as you were with gilmores final speech… lol

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 27.1

      Um, is it embarrassing to learn that you’re two hours behind Brett Dale, but no more relevant or effective?

      • ScottGN 27.1.1

        And also conveniently disregarding the general disappointment that many NZers are feeling that the office of our Prime Minister is reduced to engagement in this demeaning to-and-fro.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 27.1.1.1

          Oh, give the mendacious wretch a break, Mr.com has more money than him.

          • rosy 27.1.1.1.1

            “Mr.com has more money than him.”

            Ohhh let’s make him Prime Minister then. A ‘business man’ making loadsamoney seems to be the slamdunk reason for many righties about why Key is qualified to be Prime Minister.

            And so much so that anti-democracy, lying and dodgy dealings can be completely ignored.

      • chris73 27.1.2

        Not as embarrassing as being a leftie and hoping this was going to be some kind of game changer…pinning all your hopes on fraudalent con artist is pretty sad when you get down to it, shows how much faith you have in the labour party

        • felix 27.1.2.1

          Who’s pinning their hopes on what?

          I’m just enjoying watching your beloved hero squirm.

        • fender 27.1.2.2

          Who was claiming a “game changer”?

          “Fraudulent con artist” is not a very nice thing to call your friend Banks.

          Shearer has asked some good questions in a competent manner. We can have plenty of faith, nothing can be as bad as our pathetic PM that you adore so stupidly.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 27.1.2.3

          Really, do you think I thought it was going to be a “game changer”? I think you’ll find people become dissatisfied with their government one straw at a time, in fact.

          • North 27.1.2.3.1

            OAK……it’s like that song so loved by solid values salt of the earth country music folks like me………(Hokianga Country Music Festival last weekend of September – roll up y’all)…….song called “Angels Don’t Fly”

            “When it’s farrrr too late……..you’ll reee-alise…….aaan-gels don’t fly…….they just waaalk away……..one step……..at a time”

            By our very own magnificent shock of silver hair from Levin not mousey rug …….Rewa McGregor !

    • marty mars 27.2

      Yeah what OAK said and I’ve just watched the vid – key is absolutely shitting himself – he knows he is fucked and he knows that Kim knows – what a classic, bet he has a few sleepless nights till the lies and bullshit get exposed – best lol I’ve had for a while.

  28. BM 28

    Looking at both stuff and NZ herald websites, it’s interesting to note that the Dot com/ Key “face off” doesn’t even appear on either of their most popular, most viewed lists.

    Something to consider, especially for the fat German.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 28.1

      So, BM, what do you make of the economic argument against this bill? What do you make of a government that doesn’t seem to have realised that there would be one?

    • karol 28.2

      And yet, both those sites have Dotcom as the headline story.

      But then, I guess murder, accidents, rape, supermarket cheats, weather and Barbie’s real woman makeover are just too politically important!

    • Pascal's bookie 28.3

      If that’s the sort of thing that grabs you BM, check what peeps on twitter are sying about Key:

      https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%22John%20Key%22&src=tren

      Not a lot of love bro, not a lot of love.

    • BM 28.4

      I, like the majority of New Zealanders are completely bored shitless of the dot com, John Key,GSCB goings on.
      The whole incident jumped the shark months and months ago.

      Apart from you old boys and girls who grew up in the shadow of the cold war with the governments of the day doing endless nasties on their populace, no one under 50 really gives a toss if there’s a bit of spying going on.

      If you’re not doing anything shifty, who the hell cares, the amount of personal information people share with complete strangers online is quite staggering, the thought of a bit of spying doesn’t faze the majority of people in the slightest, which is why barbie getting a make over is number 3 on the most viewed list.

  29. Appleboy 29

    Brett. what did Key do wrong? He lied. To say you had never heard of Kim Dot Com until 24 hours before the raid was just stupid. A stupid line that he has had to stick to, and it will be his downfall when confronted. Even without he evidence Kim will present, you’d have to be a died in the wool Nat/Act follower to believe that.Oh, hey i never heard of this guy even though i am minister for GCSB, Oh I missed this high profile person who lives in my electorate who put on a huge fireworks display in Auckland for NY….moron

    • AmaKiwi 29.1

      Appleboy: “what did Key do wrong? He lied.”

      What did Key do wrong?

      1. He carried out a commando raid on behalf of the FBI, destroyed the man’s billion dollar business, took all his money, and threw him in Mt. Eden prison to agonize with back pain.

      2. He has allowed New Zealanders (Dewes and Green) to be thoroughly spied on for the crime of being opposed to nuclear weapons. The GCSB is supposed to PROTECT us from foreign spies. They haven’t.

      3. He proposes a law which is condemned (by the telcoms) as destructive to our internet future, condemned by civil libertarians, and condemned by the Law Society as unnecessary and dangerously vague.

      4. To pass this bill he will arm twist “our representatives,” people we elected to supposedly represent us, not him. He will force the caucus do his bidding even when many of them would vote against this law if it was a secret ballot. He is a dictator, not a democratic leader.

      What did Key do right? Nothing!

      • Brett Dale 29.1.1

        Yep its all john keysm fault and waht did aunty helen do when she was PM ?

        • karol 29.1.1.1

          jesus, Bret. John Key has been PM for 5 years – Clark is long gone. And why is Key making these changes to the surveillance legislation again? The buck now stops with him.

          • Brett Dale 29.1.1.1.1

            Where was the fuss though when aunty was in power.

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead 29.1.1.1.1.1

              “But but but Lllllllaaaaaabbbbbooooouuuuurrrrr!”

              Not just a Quisling, but a hypocrite too.

            • felix 29.1.1.1.1.2

              Yeah, you’re right. I don’t remember any fuss.

              Nine years, no complaints at all.

              • Yep, no matter what her and marion did the media and the left clapped like
                trained circus seals. (well not the one at san deigo in 1989 who had trouble, because
                of his eyesite, he kept hitting the trainer, but i think it may of been part of the act)

                • You’re the trained seal brett and you’ve blown it. You want to fuck this country and you’ve been caught – suffer now you will.

                  • Im a a trained seal????, im been called a mansplainer/ a troll/ a retard/ a missanddry (what ever that is) a sexist, a racist a hater, hell I did two blog posts
                    about internet arguing, with all the things I have been called, But never a trained seal.

                    Anyway what benefit would I have to want to fuck up this country???

                    In terms of suffering?? well thats not very nice.

                • felix

                  Not a whistle not a whine for nine long years.

                  Ah the serenity.

            • Sable 29.1.1.1.1.3

              I loathed Clarke but at least she didn’t enact a law enabling the government to spy on its own people. Maybe you would be happier on the whale blubber oops I mean oil site.

        • North 29.1.1.2

          Actually Bretty I think we can track all of this right back to Richard John Seddon…….if we’re fuckwits.

          Shit……propaganda check. Was he National or Labour ? Hehehe !

        • Sable 29.1.1.3

          Yes they are both shit.

  30. felix 30

    Missed Campbell Live, anything interesting?

    • karol 30.1

      Dotcom just doing his on-going drip feed. But the following item on the peace campaigners,Dr Kate Dewes and Commander Rob Green who fronted to the GCSB hearing today after decades of surveillance by …. someone (?), was pretty sobering.

      • Anne 30.1.2

        Here is the Campbell Live link to Dr. Kate Dewes and Commander Rob Green

        They are not in isolation. Quite a number of people have endured similar experiences including my late father who was in the British military in his younger days. His story is also intriguing – or at least the background to it is intriguing. One day it will be told… as an example of the stupidity and paranoia that gripped these secret services like ASIS, CIA, MI5 and MI6 during the Cold War years.

        I might add there was an anti-nuclear element to my Dad’s and ultimately my experiences too.

        • Tim 30.1.2.1

          … and the worst of the irony Anne is that they fought against fascism.
          The best of it though is that there are now a number (including authors of various reports, some of those in the ‘inner circle’, and others) that are beginning to seriously question their blind faith.

      • mickysavage 30.1.3

        He made the comment that he was waiting for his day in Court.

        I agree Karol that either there is a deep, deep dark secret and Key is up to his elbows in it, or, Dotcom is spinning a line.

        In support of possibility one, Dotcom is an immensely wealthy individual who is happy to spend large amounts of money on such things as a fireworks display when he gets made a citizen or support for a rather weird little man who wanted to be the first Super City Mayor. How likely is it that he was not asked for a donation to the National Party? And how likely is it that he did not want to arrange a meeting with his local MP who was also the country’s Prime Minister?

        And also how likely is it that Key who was Minister of all of the important Intelligence Organisations would not know about a joint effort that was considered to be really important by the US Movie Industry who Key was keen to stay onside with?

        Maybe Dotcom is spinning a line but he has as far as I am aware been truthful so far.

        Maybe Key forgot that he met Dotcom and that Dotcom was the subject of an intensive Intelligence investigation. But if so his intellectual disability ought to rule him out of being our PM.

        • felix 30.1.3.1

          “Maybe Dotcom is spinning a line but he has as far as I am aware been truthful so far.”

          Yep, whereas Key has been caught in several whoppers on this issue already. That says a lot.

          • Macro 30.1.3.1.1

            Frankly I don’t give a tu’ penny cuss whether or not they knew each other. I used to live just down the road and also in Keys electorate – but then who cares. What KDC says on the surveillance issue rings true – whereas what Key says on the matter is just Bullshit.

            • Lanthanide 30.1.3.1.1.1

              It’s not whether they “knew each other”, it’s whether John Key knew of Dotcom before the raid. He said, very plainly, on TV3 that he did not, and has since repeated the statement many times.

              There’s two angles here:
              1. Key will be shown to be a massive liar; how can we trust anything he says about anything?
              2. What is the nature of the way that Key knew of Dotcom?

              Dotcom has said in an interview with an Aus reporter that Key made a deal with Hollywood execs to shut down Megaupload in exchange for keeping the Hobbit here, along with their legislation changes.

              If indeed Dotcom has proof for that, it puts yet another angle on that affair and makes Key look incredibly dodgy – that he was just using the union stoush as a cover for taking out Megaupload and changing the law to suit the studios.

              • Macro

                but we already know Key is a stranger to the truth! The most important issue in this whole debacle is the direct attack on individual freedoms and privacy.

        • AmaKiwi 30.1.3.2

          Kim Dotcom is NOT lying.

          Dotcom MUST tell the truth or his extradition hearing testimony is discredited and he’s off to the American Gulag like Bradley Manning and Ed Snowden.

          Unlike Key, Dotcom does not have the luxury of a complacent MSM who will ignore his lies or the likes of a Brett Dale with his pathetic attempts to put a reverse spin on Key’s deceptions, half-truths, and hypocrisy.

          Today was another reminder: Kim Dotcom is a hell of a lot more intelligent John Key.

          • Brett Dale 30.1.3.2.1

            Yamakiwi:

            Saying the kiwi media is right wing is as bad as saying faux news is left wing.

            • Sable 30.1.3.2.1.1

              The New Zealand and Australian media are some of the most concentrated in the world and considered “weak” by international standards. Fox News is of course Australian owned.

    • Brett Dale 30.2

      Felix:

      His usual donald trump bullshit, I have evidence, its going to be a game changer, but
      not now. Campbell just bent over and just took it. At least it wasnt seven sharp who
      just giggled about it.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 30.2.1

        Hey Brett, you Quisling little enabler, you’ve been remarkably silent on the economic issues and the harassment meted out to the Dewes-Greens.

        Is it that you’re too stupid to care, or that authoritarian bullying gets you wet?

      • weka 30.2.2

        “His usual donald trump bullshit, I have evidence, its going to be a game changer, but
        not now. Campbell just bent over and just took it. At least it wasnt seven sharp who
        just giggled about it.”

        Actually what he said was that he wouldn’t answer Campbell’s question (did Key know about KDC before the raid) because it was part of his extradition hearing. Might be good legal reasons for not talking now.

  31. Herodotus 31

    If what the GCSB did was illegal and all this is a result of their actions, how can we know where the illegality lies unless it is tested in court ? Otherwise it is just hearsay and one mans opinion And why is it not being tested.
    Otherwise the fix could be an over reaction, and as key said to .com what the gcsb did to was even under this change not covered.

  32. Mason 32

    Micky Savage spends a lot of time here too, I have noticed. Lots of time on his hands, it seems.

  33. QoT 33

    I do sympathize with people who thought Dotcom could’ve been more … aggressive, I guess, but I think he played this really well. He was calm, measured, rational, even spoke about the illegal surveillance against him in plain, factual tones. He knew he was on live (internet) TV, he knew that politically-engaged people would be watching the whole thing live.

    Key, on the other hand, came across as very nervous and antagonistic, and that line about how letting the GCSB spy on Kiwis is “just like companies outsourcing” is terrible.

    Even Paddy Gower had to sink to the level of shitty editing to make it look like Key scored any points.

    I’m putting this down as “well played” by Dotcom.

    • Macro 33.1

      Totally agree and he was not focusing on his surveillance as such but on the broader and much more important issues of Human Rights, Privacy, and Liberty. Things that people have fought and died for over many centuries and now some mischievious pricks want to undo – simply because they can!

      • weka 33.1.1

        I also thought it was very well played. KDC is obviously intelligent and well informed and it worked to the advantage of his argument to let that come through. I was particularly impressed by his ability to explain complex issues in straightforward ways that most people will be able to understand – that 15 minute vid would be a good thing to give anyone who still doesn’t get what the fuss is about.

        He is also obviously used to speaking to power and his ignoring of Key trying to further limit his time was a pleasure to watch. Key is so overwhelmingly outclassed intellectually and in terms of speaking to the points, and it shows (Key’s attempt to compared MegaUpload as outsourcing with what he is proposing was just cringe-worthy).

        KDC’s jokes and poking a stick at a number of people in the room were well timed, but didn’t obscure the seriousness of his whole speech (was great watching the people in the background trying not to crack up).

    • Brett Dale 33.2

      QOT

      Well well,a feminist sticking up for a guy like dot com.

      brilliant.

      • QoT 33.2.1

        Where am I “sticking up for Dotcom”? I’m commenting on his performance at the committee. Magically, I can do this without being in love with him. I understand given your blinkered hard-on for Key that this concept may be difficult for you to understand.

    • Tautoko Viper 33.3

      “well played by Dotcom”
      Peter Dunne agrees.

    • felix 33.4

      Dotcom has no need to say more than serves whatever his purpose may be at the time.

      Whatever he knows or doesn’t know, he’s doing a really good job of making it look like Key is hiding something.

      People expecting some sort of gladiatorial showdown where everything gets spelled out have watched too many tv courtroom dramas and not seen enough actual courtroom drama.

      • Mary 33.4.1

        Sure, it won’t be some great gladiatorial showdown, but there is the evidence that Key knew about Dotcom well before the raids. No big deal in itself and may even be irrelevant to the extradition, but if it showed that Key lied, in a way that Key can’t shrug off as being due to not remembering, then this could be significant for Key. Key’s demeanor today and loss of control near the end made it look like something’s up in this department. Here’s hoping.

        • felix 33.4.1.1

          Yep for sure. It’s fun seeing Key embarrassed and if anything helps get rid of him then all the better for NZ.

          But remember, Key is not on trial. Dotcom is, and he has a single goal; to avoid being extradited. If he has information on Key, he’ll use it to further that single goal. That may mean exposing Key publicly, or it may not.

          • Mary 33.4.1.1.1

            Dotcom will definitely use the information strategically, but he did seem confident today not only that he had the evidence but, more to the point, that it would come out at the extradition hearing. Let’s hope nothing changes between now and then. I just love Key’s guilty look. I think it may have developed some time around when this Dotcom business began, too.

    • Huginn 33.5

      Conservatively played, at any rate. He may have anticipated that Key would try something like reducing the time allocation.

  34. infused 34

    Saving evidence, lol yeah right. He has none, as evident of late, like how he had all his servers wiped because the hosting company never contacted him… But they did.

    He’s full of shit and this was a snore fest.

    The only good thing to come out of this is the revelation of prism.

    • weka 34.1

      Funny how apart from a concerted effort by Brett there hasn’t been much from the RWNJs tonight.

    • North 34.2

      So you’re saying Paul Davison QC is a fuck are you Confused ? Bold of you ! Indeed are you infused ?

    • Pascal's bookie 34.3

      Funny how he keeps winning in court tho eh Infused?

      But yeah, I’ll take your judgement as gospel mate. That war in Korea a couple of months back, leading to a broader war throughout the middle east, was proof certain of your grasp on all of the things.

  35. AmaKiwi 35

    “You know I know.” (Kim Dotcom to John Key.)

    Was Kim Dotcom angling with John Key for a deal on his extradition?

    A QC once told me, “If you have an open and shut case in NZ, you have a 70% chance of winning.”

    Was Kim warning Key, “If you push this extradition case into court, I am taking you down. Wouldn’t it be better for both of us if you find a technicality to drop this case so I can stay in NZ and you can stay PM?”

    • Richard Christie 35.1

      Too late, DC has now openly accused Key of lying to the public.
      There must be a showdown, in an extradition hearing or defamation action by Key.
      Key cannot let the accusation go unchallenged or he concedes the claim.

      • AmaKiwi 35.1.1

        Accusing John Key of lying is nothing new.

        Dotcom has NOT defined WHAT Key knew or when.

        Until it goes to court, there’s always wiggle room.

        In my experience, if both sides want it to quietly go away, it does.

        I don’t think Kim’s goal is destroy Key. I think his goal is to stay out of the gulag.

        • Mary 35.1.1.1

          Key doesn’t care about accusations he lied. He just doesn’t give a stuff. That’s the kind of guy he is. He may, perhaps, sue if Dotcom doesn’t produce the evidence in court, but it’d only be because it’s Dotcom, maybe – but it wouldn’t be surprising if he didn’t because he just doesn’t care. And if evidence he lied does come out in court there’s still plenty of potential for wriggle room, when it comes to Key, that is. We just all need to hope there won’t be any wriggle room, this time.

  36. North 37

    It would be foolish bravado ShonKey Python cheerleaders and apologists all……..I refer to Bowel Motion, Bretty ChesDale, Confused, Crass 73, TinHoilFat……that’s enough dirty talking……sorry if I missed anyone ……..you’d be foolish to assume that Sir Increasingly Kiwi Kim Dotcom did not take advice, nay directions, from his excellent counsel Paul Davison QC BEFORE the select committe and BEFORE Campbell Live.

    ShonKey Python looked like Barnum & Bailey in meltdown. Fetid, sloppy elephant shit everywhere in the room so to speak. He KNOWS that the ringmaster Davison is writing the script here. Accordingly he KNOWS (or should) that Sir KKDC’s indication that “now is not the time” is not hollow mouthing. So does Scoop Campbell more to the point.

    And of course he KNOWS. That he KNEW. And that soon everyone will KNOW !

    Get the whistling in the dark spectacle (and poncey spectacles) of the mad old crook Botox Banks with his virtual no contest plea in the short man response – “Kim who ? ”

    Oh how witty witty witty witty !

    I regret that not to my advantage I have been a betting man.

    Here is my chance to balance the books. I am prepared to wager at 10 to 1 with the several miscreants first named above that Paul Davison QC and Sir KKDC will do for Shonkey Python’s Flying Shit Circus. Any takers miscreants ?

    • AmaKiwi 37.1

      Can someone be so kind as to translate this for me?

      • Mary 37.1.1

        I think North’s just saying Dotcom’s playing a strategic game and that Key will come off second best.

      • North 37.1.2

        Read it again honey, carefully this time. AK I mean. Mary knows.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 37.1.2.1

          Ten to one? Those are good odds. I’m sure the wingnuts will be queuing up 😉

    • yeshe 37.2

      Thank you North — thank you !! You made my morning and still laughing out loud I am ! :-))

  37. AmaKiwi 38

    I hate to find John Armstrong agreeing with me, but read 35 above.

    Armstrong agrees: Kim Dotcom may have enough evidence to end Key’s political career.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10894619

  38. Treetop 39

    Key has not done Dunne yet because he needs Dunne’s vote to pass the GCSB legislation, as well Banks case has been deferred until the end of the month, (Banks vote is safe) .

    Key is rushing through the GCSB legislation and ONLY cares about having the slimmest margin, which is so sneaky and undemocratic.

    Once the GCSB legislation is passed Dotcom cannot run his business as cloud can access anything from Dotcom’s data base.

    The GCSB legislation should be called the shut down Dotcom legislation.

    Key is only really interested in having the power over those who fit his agenda.

    • weka 39.1

      “Once the GCSB legislation is passed Dotcom cannot run his business as cloud can access anything from Dotcom’s data base.”

      Only if it can break the encryption.

      • Murray Olsen 39.1.1

        If they can’t break the encryption, they just send in the Armed Offenders, SWAT, Anti-Terrorist Group and the Rambo squad, with live feed to the FBI and commentary by Paddy Gower. Maybe even the Whale Army led by Judith Collins in a spiky corset. If it were a level playing field and the rule of law meant anything, encryption would be a good idea. Sadly……….

    • Huginn 39.2

      Peter George thinks that Key gave the Henry inquiry extraordinary authority, including using the GCSB, to look into Dunne and Vance’s meta-data.

      If that’s true, it means that Key is using the GCSB not only to spy on New Zealanders, but to spy on Members of Parliament. That’s an extremely serious allegation and it needs to be investigated.

      http://yournz.org/2013/07/03/key-gave-henry-inquiry-extraordinary-authority-including-gcsb/

  39. Treetop 40

    Willie on Radio Live said that Dotcom got 22 minutes, (this was said about an hour ago).

    • Anne 40.1

      He was given an extra 7 mins after Russel Norman and David Shearer read the riot act. So, there were 7 mins. for questions instead of 15 mins. It didn’t matter in the end because KDC did what he set out to do… make a mockery of Key’s claims.

      • weka 40.1.1

        the tv3 video I watched was only 18 mins long, and that included the bit at the start arguing about the length of time. There were a few questions, and it finished with the I’m hot bit. Does that mean I missed some questions at the end?

  40. TruthSeeker 41

    Key initially said that he was aware of a “German resident” living in the Chrisco mansion prior to 19 January last year but he didn’t know his name was Kim Dotcom.

    He later said in answer to a written question from Winston Peters about how he knew of the German resident: “I do not believe that information came to my attention as Prime Minister.”

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QWA/2/0/d/QWA_09404_2012-9404-2012-Rt-Hon-Winston-Peters-to-the-Prime-Minister.htm

    Does this mean he knew about Kim Dotcom in a non-official capacity?

    It’s interesting that his story has since evolved from “I didn’t know his name was Kim Dotcom” to “I didn’t know about him”. Both statements cannot be correct.

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