2 to 1 against privatisation

Written By: - Date published: 7:53 am, February 18th, 2011 - 49 comments
Categories: polls, privatisation - Tags:

Last night’s TV3 poll confirmed what we knew – Kiwis are strongly against selling our public assets. National’s policy is opposed by 60% and supported by just 30%. That’s more opposition than the mining proposal. There’ll be no back-down from the Nats – pillaging the State is a core reason for them wanting power. On these numbers, it may lose them the election.

49 comments on “2 to 1 against privatisation”

  1. Salsy 1

    Its the ultimate gamble – They have put everything on winning the world cup (god only nows its probably match fixed) then as they say, if elected there is a mandate to go against public opinion. The following year will be dark indeed…

    • Marty G 1.1

      exactly, national will claim re-election as a mandate to do what they like on asset sales. that’s why the first flyer specifically says that a vote for National is a vote for privatisation. we can’t let anyone go into the polling booth thinking they can elect that nice man mr key but avoid asset sales

      • noeleftie 1.1.1

        very true Marty G – so power to the connected few. Time for labour to get reconnected at grass root level with the electorate by generating some meaningful debate and interest. Asset sale and privatisation ( the mandate that the tories need ) will be there downfall.
        The only good thing about john key is that he has constrained the right power blocks in the tories and honestly is seeking a mandate from the people to sell assets.

  2. Kaplan 2

    They will be pinning their hopes on swaying public opinion through the dodgy polling antics of fanboy.

  3. Anthony C 3

    That’s the great thing about National floating this policy, to sell it they have to explain it.

    It requires a completely opposite approach to the ‘hit and run’ news cycle they have helped cultivate, and is going to backfire, you can’t sell something this culturally reviled by Kiwis with a quick soundbite.

    • That is a great point AC – they will have to explain it to sell it – their spin will be relentless and as noted, has already started.

    • Marty G 3.2

      As proven by the mining in national parks flop. Good point.

      • Deadly_NZ 3.2.1

        And what about the big lignite plant they are talking up for down south will make $1.5 billion per year. And it looks like bugger the environment

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10706966

        • Lanthanide 3.2.1.1

          Frankly if peak oil is really as imminent as many are suggesting, I don’t have a problem with turning lignite into diesel if it means we still have fuel for our country to run on some semblence of it’s current self.

          In terms of carbon emissions and buggering the environment:
          1. Global warming is already a certainty now
          2. NZ’s emissions are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things anyway. I don’t really see that we should be leaders at a huge economic cost. (in the future, the tourism industry is going to be substantially smaller, so clean and green branding won’t bring in the $ anyway).

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1.1

            The environment is the economy.

            • Lanthanide 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Well yes, in the long-run of decades, that is true.

              But in the short to medium turn, if we don’t have transport, we don’t have much of an economy. Historically humans have always chosen to take from the enviroment to create an economy. The problem we have now is that it’s gone too far for too long.

              Really it’s about alternatives:
              a) completely crash the economy, have 30%+ unemployment and widespread discontent and poverty while not putting additional pressure on the environment from coal emissions
              b) try and manage a power-down scenario to avoid the worst social repercussions, which requires increased coal emissions to manage the transition

              Of course what is most likely to happen is:
              c) attempt to manage business-as-usual which requires increased coal emissions permanently

              • Shane Gallagher

                Actually we have a lot of wastage that will help us out – Otago uni energy dept. has worked out that there is about 50% redundancy in our road transport at the moment (eg. trucking toilet paper to Chch from Dunedin plant and trucking same amount of toilet paper from Chch plant to Dunedin) so if we actually planned our economy we can reduce fuel usage significantly. That should give us time to restructure our transport system.

                However it would take a government with some backbone to push that through… Cannot see Labour or the Nats doing it.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Got link?

                • Colonial Viper

                  That’s the same kind of thing which happens with Coca Cola and their aluminium cans. Dig the ore up here, refine the alumina there, smelt the aluminium in yet another place, roll it into sheet somewhere else, turn it into cans there, and bring those cans all the way back to the starting point where they will be filled, sealed and sent back to each of those different cities/countries and put into Coke machines.

                  And why do the corporates do this? Because (of course) its the cheapest route through the value chain, from the corporate operating expenses point of view.

                  You have these value chains spanning across nations now. Yes we could optimise – from the point of fuel usage – shipping stuff between Christchurch and Dunedin, which would be helpful. But for any value chain more complex than that you will need international corporate and governmental co-operation.

                  At the end of the day the push has got to be for a localised economy. Where only very few things get transported more than one or two hundred kilometres. Again, that would be a very different economy.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    That’s why I keep saying that the rules in every country has to be normalised. Once costs are truly accounted for then such mass over use of transportation will stop.

                • aj

                  Govt changing the direction toilet paper travels. Nanny State at it’s worst 🙂

                • Drakula

                  So how about the Green Party Eh?

          • Deadly_NZ 3.2.1.1.2

            But where will the diesel and profits go???? To the country thats bank rolling it Maybe China???? But not to the working man. Our prices will still be exorbitant.

          • noeleftie 3.2.1.1.3

            I have to agree we need to expand the money supply and create real growth in our economy of another 1-2%pa. The private sector hasnt the ability or capacity to create such levels of growth therefore we need to bring the balancing effector that we call the state into play.
            Either state / private partnerships to utilise these resources or create an mechanism that involve ownership of these companies being locked up and held by the taxpayer. Interestingly the model was for the local community power boards of the 80’s etc where the people owned the assets throught their local councils and got rebates etc.
            The only entity in new zealand big enough to supply internal generated cash to expand the economy whilst maintaining the balance of the economy is the taxpayer – maybe we all contribute another 2% of our wages and collectively create situations where that investment can both be optomised and also provide a stabalising influencer on the economy. Both kiwi saver and the cullen fund are successful models where the taxpaper has created a investment vehicle in a profitable manner.

            • Herodotus 3.2.1.1.3.1

              One issue re Kiwi Saver- ALL tax payer pays pay for the subsidy- until it becomes composulary only those with surplus available funds and are working get the full benefit. For many their financial means make this unaffordable, for those working over 65 they are ineligible and are unable to be compensated for this exclusion or to have their pay accordinly adjusted up. And allows those well paid individuals to “manage” what they are paid and perhaps sacrifice some cash in hand for pension allowances results: greater individual wealth, paying less tax- A common tread within Lab and Nat when either is in govt, look after the rich.
              Kiwisaver was a step forward pity the Lab govt assisted the same people they take pot shots at for paying too little tax, actions Lab are more deafening than rhetoric

      • neoleftie 3.2.2

        they are already putting the spin out there now.
        Half privitising SOE and selling shares to ‘mum and pop’ investors.
        If we could trust the Tories to get it right and not provide an mechansim to sell to the elites then a scheme where the average kiwi could lock-in there hard earned savings into a profitable SOE sounds like a great idea to me. It would provide the following benefits:
        1) allow average kiwi to increase there wealth generating ability
        2) provide the state with some nice cash from an increased tax rake.
        3) stimulate the economy by allowing the SOE to expand / creating jobs due to this injection of capital.
        4) prevent further Govt from selling off SOE as 50% of the shareholders are now the citizen.

        All this could be achieved quite simply and beneficially to the economy as a whole under classic policies too.

    • Lanthanide 3.3

      Yes, astute observation. It is fundamentally different from “TAX CUTS!!!!!eleven!!!!” that they did at last election, and all their other slogans.

      • noeleftie 3.3.1

        well tax cuts per see arent all bad. it depends on the timing and who get it.
        At this point in time in the economic cycle and created downturn tax cut to the upper rich were a bad idea due to the fact that:
        1) they dont need any extra friggin money – those bastards are laughing at the rest of us.
        2) we need whoever got the tax cut to spend it big time on retail in new zealand.
        3) more money to the rich just made them invest it so they can generate more wealth for themselves. My hard earned potential tax dollar that could have been used more wisely at a marco level is now being used to create more opportunity or wealth for the wealthy. Whilst the poor class get bigger by the day, the middle class groans under the tax burden, the capitalist class just go right on creating more wealth for themselve even if they have to cooped the state and economic system to do it.

  4. Olwyn 4

    Going by the TV3 clip, they have made some wiggle room for themselves should the plan start to cost them at the polls. Key was unequivocal in his original announcement, but seems now to be allowing himself some space for modifications if necessary. He has a habit of this: “Absolutely!” or “Absolutely no way!” followed by “Well what I meant was…”

    • Bright Red 4.1

      but this is already a weakened policy from what they want to do. how much further can they retreat and still deliver something meaningful for their base?

      plus a backdown doesn’t simply undo the damage that the initial policy caused, especially if trust in the politican is weakening

      • Olwyn 4.1.1

        Not sure. But I am pretty sure that their whole approach is to balance electability against rewarding their mates – no electability, no reward possible, no reward in the offing, no money to fight the election. As a left winger I am hardly going to suggest ways out of this dilemma, but if they plummet in the polls I’m sure they will find a way of “re-balancing their priorities” or some such.

        • Herodotus 4.1.1.1

          No wiggle room if you were at Botany earlier on this week. Someone asked re this if Nat would change policy. JLR stated that if you were against SOE sales then not to vote for him, as this was not one that Nat would change. Good on JLR for being up front. He will not succeed in cent govt politics with such an honest response, did make one valid pt Lab also did sell state assets, but from my investigations they did but not to this extent.

      • Deadly_NZ 4.1.2

        But the backdown would only last until they got back in to power, then the Big fuck you comes out, and off they go on their merry way raping and stealing for another 3 years..

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.1

          Exactly, NACT will sell the assets even if they revoke the policy before the election.

          • Jum 4.1.2.1.1

            You’re correct 100%, Draco T. Bastard. JKeyll said so in Parliament; a vote for National is a mandate to sell.

            • Drakula 4.1.2.1.1.1

              The bastards are so amoral they will even sell their children!!!!

              WILL!!!! they ARE selling our children!!!!!!!

              Don’t forget what Key is negotiating with Gillard behind closed doors of CER les sovereignty for us but I guess that is a different thread Sorry!!

          • neoleftie 4.1.2.1.2

            if the Tories sell assets this term then i for one will be in the street…as it folds i will be on the pavement come november anyway

  5. James 5

    I notice that TV3 when asking their question used the (P.M.’s) framing “partial asset sales” – and still there was a 60% rejection. I wonder what the rejection rate would have been if the question had simply referred to “asset sales”? Or, equally or more valid in my view, as “asset sales to U.S./Chinese/Australian interests?

  6. gobsmacked 6

    Whenever there is a poll on specific issues (like asset sales), there is nearly always a Party Vote poll too. It’s a simple matter of cost/convenience.

    So it looks like there will be a TV3 poll released on Sunday/Monday.

    Given the responses on asset sales (from the same people, in the same poll), there should be an increase in support for the three main opposition parties (including NZ First, I would guess). If there isn’t, then Labour in particular will need to have a good look at themselves.

    The government can lose the election. But the opposition need to start winning it.

  7. Kevin Welsh 7

    I see that the faithful are not that convinced over at kiwiblog either. Its only 50/50 on their poll on asset sales.

    • Colonial Viper 7.1

      Perhaps because they think partial asset sales are another sign of John Key being wishy-washy.

  8. Drakula 8

    Partial asset sales are asset sales by stealth make no mistake about that!!!!!

    Can you trust these bastards?

  9. Neoleftie 9

    if we are talking infrastructure the amount if truck trasports on our roading system will increase by 50% over the next 5 years – hence bolger coming out in support of our man cullen buying back kiwi rail of the profit rakers and pillages

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1

      So….

      You’re in favour of buying back rail and dropping the full costs of trucking back onto the trucking lobby?

  10. Neoleftie 10

    In this century the player who controls infrastructure inc water etc wins the game. The studies i am doing would suggest in the next fifty years the profit takers will try and control the strategic bottleneck of a country’s infrastructure. How does a multinational company keep generating profits once the globalised production factors such as productivity become optomised. They must look to new marco cost controls or profit generating avenues to protect there base returns.
    So yes keep any strategic assets such as rail and no to privatisation of roads i.e PPP toll schemes.
    There is a realisation even from main steam economists that a pure free-market system has fundamental flaws in the medium to long term.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Interesting insights. Yeah, and that “medium to long term” comes into play…well, pretty much now. 200 years of industrial capitalism has given way to 30 years of ponzi capitalism and now that is failing there is very little else to turn to.

      • Neoleftie 10.1.1

        interestingly the only country that thinks beyond the next economic cycle is china…study china and get an insight how a country can control via various economic fiscal levels there economy e.g they control the value of there dollar and M3 money supply. The only big speculator in china is the state or its semi private organs.
        The chinese state is buying up global strategic assets all over the show i.e who will control the milk powder supply into china within ten years ah.

        • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1

          Yet critics say China is setting itself up with too high levels of liquidity as it suppresses the value of the renmenbi, and that inevitable asset bubbles and speculation will result.

          As you say, the state are the big players yes, but China has at least 70 USD billionaires now, and possibly tens of thousands people worth >US$10M who can each play the asset bubble game.

          Essentially though I agree – its foolhardy to sell our hard strategic assets to China for pallets of freshly printed US dolalrs.

  11. Neoleftie 11

    i could suggest look to see which country is buying up american bond releases at a staggering rate to offset its liquidity and retain some balance. China uses artifical methods or marco levers to keep there economy from over heating. very much a mixed economy.

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    . . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • Police will have to wear silly Buckingham Palace hats from now on, says Police Minister
    Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • A sensible crackdown
    The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • California bans private prisons
    Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Why PPPs are a bad idea
    When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A Movement That No Longer Moves.
    Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
    1 week ago
  • NZ ‘left’ politically embracing extreme postmodernism
    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    1 week ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    1 week ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    1 week ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    2 weeks ago

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