Labour excels in the UK

132 comments on “Labour excels in the UK ”

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1. Ad 1

   9 June 2017 at 5:50 pm

   +100
2. Robert Guyton 2

   9 June 2017 at 5:51 pm

   What are the lessons? Disregard the worthless “Corbyn is unelectable” predictions of tin-pot commenters here at TS, especially those relating to Andrew Little and the chances of a Left wing government winning here. Treat those Tory bleatings with the scorn they have shown by this result, they deserve; wrong about Corbyn, wrong about Little #donateregularlytonational
3. Ed 3

   9 June 2017 at 5:54 pm

   Turn left.
   Policies, policies, policies…..
   • marty mars 3.1

     9 June 2017 at 6:32 pm

     + 1

     Go left, left again and keep going that way. People are the most important thing.
   • Adrian Thornton 3.2

     9 June 2017 at 9:54 pm

     Ed +1

     TURN LABOUR LEFT!
     • Ed 3.2.1

       9 June 2017 at 10:51 pm

       And keep moving left.
4. Robert Guyton 4

   9 June 2017 at 5:55 pm

   “Whatever happens next, Jeremy Corbyn and the UK Labour Party under his leadership have pulled off something no one expected. And with our own election just over 100 days away, there are some questions to consider – quickly, because they’re incredibly important but there’s no time for navel-gazing:

   Who kept saying Jeremy Corbyn was unelectable, destructive, and destroying the Labour Party? Why did you believe them? And what are the reasons they were proven categorically wrong?”

   https://bootstheory.wordpress.com/2017/06/09/unelectable-huh/
   • AB 4.1

     9 June 2017 at 6:23 pm

     Corbyn was never unelectable. A mainstream social democrat who 30-40 years ago would have been an unremarkable centrist.
     The people who called Corbyn ‘unelectable’ simply wanted to make him so by repeatedly saying that he was. The oldest trick in the book – invent a label for your opponent and just endlessly repeat it.
5. Kiwi 5

   9 June 2017 at 5:57 pm

   Focus on the cuts – we have has austerity by another name. Education, health, mental health, social housing, welfare, police, conservation – all cut to the bone whilst the tax cuts benefit the few.

   The cuts are what always lead to a Labour govt – everywhere.
   • weka 5.1

     9 June 2017 at 6:13 pm

     Focus on an alternative to the cuts. Plus the being real thing.
6. stever 6

   9 June 2017 at 6:02 pm

   Things started to change in a remarkable way once election rules kicked-in for the media and they had to present Corbyn in a balanced way, mostly in terms of amount of coverage but also in the sense of bringing out positive as well as negative points.

   Of course, you need to have a long history of being true to yourself, your ideals and not being afraid to be in a minority (sometimes of one). Not sure we have such politicians in any party in NZ 🙁 Perhaps some Greens come closest.
7. Carolyn_nth 7

   9 June 2017 at 6:11 pm

   Any news on the politics of the new Labour MPs? Surely that will have an impact on the future direction of the Labour caucus?
   • Craig H 7.1

     10 June 2017 at 1:45 am

     The speeches and Q&As at various regional and national conferences, and their general backgrounds and statements gave me the impression that they are generally quite left wing, particularly by recent Labour standards.
     • Carolyn_nth 7.1.1

       10 June 2017 at 9:42 am

       Thanks. Sounds good for the future.
8. Sanctuary 8

   9 June 2017 at 6:25 pm

   The toffs are on notice – socialism is back, baby.
   • Alan 8.1

     9 June 2017 at 7:47 pm

     the 70s were last week
     • Ed 8.1.1

       9 June 2017 at 10:52 pm

       Zzzzzzz
   • dukeofurl 8.2

     9 June 2017 at 9:29 pm

     Have you read the labour manifesto ?

     The growth created by our national investment plan, underpinned by the responsible economic management embodied in our Fiscal Credibility Rule, will create good jobs, drive up living standards and improve the public finances.

     It is a plan that will deliver Labour’s vision of an economy that works for the many, not just the few – a Britain in which no one is held back.

     No socialism there
     http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017/economy

     And what was the Fiscal Credibility Rule?

     Labour will close the deficit on day-to-day
     spending over five years
      Labour make sure government debt is falling
     at the end of five years
      Labour will borrow only to invest

     No baby !
9. Phil 9

   9 June 2017 at 6:28 pm

   What are the lessons for New Zealand Labour and in particular Andrew Little?

   The only real lesson for the NZLP is “campaign against a party with a terribly un-charismatic leader who makes bad strategic decisions on the campaign trail.”
   • marty mars 9.1

     9 June 2017 at 6:38 pm

     Yay that’s billyboy!
   • Psycho Milt 9.2

     9 June 2017 at 6:41 pm

     Well, the terribly uncharismatic leader part of it is sorted, at least.
   • greywarshark 9.3

     9 June 2017 at 6:58 pm

     Phil – marty mars
     I don’t agree with that at all. We have to hold to a pretty good lot of principles, not just count on not being as bad as the other one and pointing the finger at the muffs or stuffups. That’s what bloody National do and I am sick of it. So don’t suggest that we just follow on. First say Labour is going to do better than National, they are worn out from a day’s squawking, but do put up one positive policy, costed, one aspirational policy that will definitely be implemented but may have to start on a low scale owing to budget constraints, and one bit of good times to look forward to. And then praise some NZ person who is showing the right stuff that we aim to have a line-up of during Labour’s first term. And keep that up. And say that we have some things costed, some are infrastructure and will be borrowed for, and some we will be discussing and workshopping with to get the skilled experienced people on the ground to ensure that our dollar is well spent as we advance together.

     Bit gobsmacking that would be. Quite warming to people who are chilled to the bone by the crass miserliness even hatred that bubbles under those bland faces of the RW.
     • marty mars 9.3.1

       9 June 2017 at 9:05 pm

       Yeah nah i like my attempted funny response to phils idea rather than your serous one.
       • greywarshark 9.3.1.1

         9 June 2017 at 9:08 pm

         Okay there is a need, but Jeremy seems to have kept to the task and been rewarded. I like that idea.
         • marty mars 9.3.1.1.1

           9 June 2017 at 9:36 pm

           Yep we agree on that – conviction politicans are great for following their truth – just have to watch they don’t get all messiah-ish but I think corbyn doesn’t have that in him so all good.
10. marty mars 10

    9 June 2017 at 6:37 pm

    Well done labour over there. I dont want to be a downer just say that we must learn the lessons from this sea change and apply them to here and here is not there. Mr little – be who you appear to be and that solid left, caring authenticity will pay off on election day deservedly.
    • dukeofurl 10.1

      9 June 2017 at 6:59 pm

      Time to roll out the Angry Andy again ?
      • weka 10.1.1

        10 June 2017 at 9:59 am

        That would be daft seeing as how Angry Andy is a Crosby Textor meme.
        • dukeofurl 10.1.1.1

          10 June 2017 at 10:31 am

          The ‘unelectable Corbyn’ meme turned out how ?
          • weka 10.1.1.1.1

            10 June 2017 at 10:45 am

            Are you suggesting either that ‘Angry Andy’ is a positive thing, or that a negative meme like ‘unelectable Corbyn’ helped Corbyn do so well?
11. Psycho Milt 11

    9 June 2017 at 6:43 pm

    This was such a great day. Lessons for NZ Labour:
    1. Don’t be afraid to have a labour manifesto.
    2. Your leader needs to be relaxed and honest with the media rather than trying to remember how to play the role the PR people wrote for him.
    • Wainwright 11.1

      9 June 2017 at 7:34 pm

      Hear hear
    • mickysavage 11.2

      9 June 2017 at 7:46 pm

      Aye
    • Adrian Thornton 11.3

      9 June 2017 at 9:58 pm

      You got that one right.
      Andrew Little’s PR/strategy team should be fired immediately.
12. Halfcrown 12

    9 June 2017 at 6:53 pm

    I think the biggest loser was the Tory run media. For a long time they have run a “get rid of nutter Corbyn” campaign aided by the Blairites. Then we had the disgusting headlines in excuses for shithouse paper like the Daily Fail and crap rabid reporting by it’s fuckwit journalists. They were all wrong, It appears that the crap did not go down and it was seen for what it was crap.

    Let’s hope NZ takes note what has happened in the UK and sees through the biased shit spouted by the likes of Gower, Hooten and wannabe’s like Hoskin and realise our so called papers are really nothing but third-rate shithouse paper, and any opinion in them must be viewed with scepticism.
    • Ed 12.1

      9 June 2017 at 8:48 pm

      And Garner..another Tory boy with his hateful sidekick Mark Richardson
13. Anne 13

    9 June 2017 at 6:54 pm

    What are the lessons for New Zealand Labour and in particular Andrew Little?

    Be yourself. Be just a bit radical. Go out and campaign face to face. Be authentic. Be passionate.

    And above all, throw away the PC rule book and call a spade a spade!

    Oh and stop listening to the wishy washy pale pink centrists like the Paganis et al – a message to the MSM in particular.

    AB @ 4.1 says it in a nutshell. Corbyn was never a political extremist as his opponents tried to paint him. He was/is a socialist/ social democrat who represents what Britain, Canada, Australia and NZ used to be before the 1980s.

    Congrats to Jeremy Corbyn for a fabulous campaign.
    • mosa 13.1

      9 June 2017 at 7:10 pm

      Well said Anne +100
14. dukeofurl 14

    9 June 2017 at 6:59 pm

    Former Tory leader Hague described the leadership as thus

    as “an absolute monarchy moderated by regicide”.
15. McFlock 15

    9 June 2017 at 7:00 pm

    The polls were fucked, but this time they seemed to be evenly fucked – almost all of them 5-10% higher for both labour and cons than the final count. Obviously some more one way than the other, but only a couple of the final poll round were within a decent margin for error of either party.

    So I suppose the lesson is that whether they’re for you or agin you, the polls are probably wrong 🙂
    • weka 15.1

      9 June 2017 at 7:10 pm

      the yougov ones at the end were more accurate and used a different method. Will be interesting to see what comes from that.
    • gsays 15.2

      9 June 2017 at 9:35 pm

      Pollsters remind me of the credit rating agencies of banking.
      • lprent 15.2.1

        9 June 2017 at 10:22 pm

        Pollsters remind me of the credit rating agencies of banking.

        Facilitating a global meltdown of a ponzi scheme?
16. David Mac 16

    9 June 2017 at 7:16 pm

    Corbyn has a fine demeanor, never far from a heartfelt smile or chuckle. People like people like that.

    People under 30 like their information in concise bite size pieces. It’s how they communicate. It’s why Twitter is so popular, room for 1 sentence only.

    ‘I’ll listen to your message, you’ve got 5 seconds, go.’

    Corbyn was skilled in talking in sound-bite sentences. Getting an individual message across in 5 seconds. Words like this…

    “Of course those people don’t want us to win,” he said. “Because when we win, it’s the people, not the powerful, who win”.

    “The nurse, the teacher, the small trader, the carer, the builder, the office worker win. We all win”.

    I think it’s a UK approach that the left parties can and should apply here…

    “If you or someone you love needs a house, you must vote Labour in September.”

    “If someone you know is waiting for an operation please help them and vote left in September.”

    “Don’t go river swimming, you need to vote Green first.”

    That sort of thing. Each repetition, tiny tattoos on the consciousness.
    • marty mars 16.1

      9 June 2017 at 9:18 pm

      + 1
17. RedLogix 17

    9 June 2017 at 7:35 pm

    What interests me is how closely Bernie Sanders is aligning himself with Corbyn. With both Trump and May looking very vulnerable indeed, it would be a poor crystal ball that might not have an image of both sides of the Atlantic led by seriously socialist leaders in the not too distant future.
    • Ad 17.1

      9 June 2017 at 9:00 pm

      Trump has expanded the ideological width of possibility for 2020.

      And we have a whole term left of him.
18. Carolyn_nth 18

    9 June 2017 at 7:38 pm

    RNZ banner headline says UK “Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party” will try to form a minority government.

    Ye Gods! That’d be better than delivering Boris.
19. Stuart Munro 19

    9 June 2017 at 7:45 pm

    He reminds me of Paul Krugman – another moderate the far-right have exerted themselves to label extremist.
20. dukeofurl 20

    9 June 2017 at 7:46 pm

    Strangely the Conservatives increased their vote by 5% to 42%

    But labour increased by 10%, and this one is for Ad, they got 40% which is 1% less than Blairs landslide in 2001
    • mickysavage 20.1

      9 June 2017 at 7:48 pm

      UKIP imploded. The conservatives may have increased their vote but the right wing vote plunged.
      • swordfish 20.1.1

        9 June 2017 at 9:04 pm

        .
        RIGHT (Con + UKIP + DUP + UUP)
        ….. 2015 50.5% ….. 2017 45.4% (- 5.1)

        .
        LEFT (Labour + SNP + Green + LD + PC + SF + SDLP)
        ….. 2015 48.3% ….. 2017 53.6% (+ 5.3)

        .
        (LEFT minus LD)
        ….. 2015 40.4% ….. 2017 46.3% (+ 5.9)
        • mickysavage 20.1.1.1

          9 June 2017 at 9:20 pm

          Thanks SF. If you want a more permanent opportunity to post your wisdom …
        • Ad 20.1.1.2

          9 June 2017 at 9:51 pm

          LD counts as “left”? Stop squinting.

          And even if those groupings were true, in fact even in role-play alternative history fantasy MMP land, it would be encouraging if the left showed it had the capacity to form coalitions.
          So far not. But the Tories have learnt fast.

          We could easily see a scenario where the Tories learn from English, and head straight for the centre and hold on for yet another term.
          • swordfish 20.1.1.2.1

            9 June 2017 at 10:34 pm

            .LD counts as “left”? Stop squinting

            (1) Which part of “(LEFT minus LD)” did you have trouble understanding, Ad ?
            (ie I provided 2 LEFT options)

            (2) You missed the fact that LEFT minus LD = even greater increase than LEFT plus LD (+ 5.9) vs (+ 5.3)

            (3) Even LEFT minus LD beats RIGHT

            Talking – Broad LEFT vs RIGHT views of Brits here
      • Craig H 20.1.2

        10 June 2017 at 1:52 am

        I personally think a lot of UKIP voters were working class, and once Brexit was achieved* and Labour released their manifesto, they had no reason to vote UKIP, so they returned to Labour.

        (*I know Brexit still has to be implemented)
    • Ad 20.2

      9 June 2017 at 8:45 pm

      1997 election Labour 418 Blair PM
      2001 election Labour 412 Blair PM
      2005 election Labour 355 Blair + Brown PM
      2015 election Labour 232
      2017 election Labour 261

      Corbyn has done slightly better than a Dead Cat Bounce.

      It’s not the second coming of Socialism.
      It’s a tourniquet.
      • mickysavage 20.2.1

        9 June 2017 at 9:22 pm

        FPP it is always a roulette. And look at the percentages. Corbyn’s 40% is pretty good …

        It is only a tourniquet because of all of the careerists …
        • Ad 20.2.1.1

          9 June 2017 at 10:09 pm

          Corbyn needs to show he is a parliamentary leader now.
          Every time he’s had a staff or MP challenge, he’s folded like origami.

          Corbyn voted against his own party over 500 times.
          Hell, even Cameron didn’t get to do that against Labour.

          I think ARobins was right from yesterday, but for different reasons, on this result.
          It’s sheer luck Corbyn didn’t get in today.

          He needs to harden up and figure how to whip, how to (insert House of Cards technique here), how to get what he wants.
          • Wainwright 20.2.1.1.1

            10 June 2017 at 12:26 am

            Are we talking abotu the same J Corbyn, because when his shadow cabinet threw a tanty and resigned he shrugged and replaced them all in a day or so. Hardly folding. And they don’t whip in the UK. There aren’t party votes. Maybe he should just knacker a couple of the leaky dissenters.
      • Carolyn_nth 20.2.2

        9 June 2017 at 9:39 pm

        According to this tweet and the graph attached:

        Jeremy Corbyn has just increased Labour’s share of the vote more than any other leader in any other election since Attlee in 1945
        • Ad 20.2.2.1

          9 June 2017 at 10:01 pm

          That’s only because the only time things had been as bad as 2015’s Labour result was 1983. 34 years ago. Lifting that percentage was the thing Corbyn had to do to stop Labour heading to permanent un-electability.
      • swordfish 20.2.3

        9 June 2017 at 10:06 pm

        ….. ….. Lab ….. Lab-Tory gap ……….. LEFT

        1983 ….. 28% ….. Tories by 14.8 ….. 30%
        1987 ….. 31% ….. Tories by 11.4 ….. 34%
        1992 ….. 34% ….. Tories by 7.5 ……. 38%
        1997 ….. 43% ….. Lab by 12.5 ……… 47%
        2001 ….. 41% ….. Lab by 9.0 ………… 45%
        2005 ….. 35% ….. Lab by 2.8 ……….. 39%
        2010 ….. 29% ….. Tories by 7.1 ……. 33%
        2015 ….. 30% ….. Tories by 6.5 ……. 40%
        2017 ….. 40% …. Tories by 2.4 …… 46%

        Very impressive performance by Corbyn’s Labour and broader LEFT
      • Ed 20.2.4

        9 June 2017 at 10:55 pm

        3.3 million votes more than 2015.
        12 million total votes compares favourably with 1997.
    • Ed 20.3

      9 June 2017 at 8:49 pm

      And added 3.3 million voters since 2015
      • Ad 20.3.1

        9 June 2017 at 8:57 pm

        You mean, lost the election, three times in a row.

        Corbyn did good. No more.
        • dukeofurl 20.3.1.1

          9 June 2017 at 9:15 pm

          Elections are about persuading the voters, yes its seats that form governments, but 40% is up there with Blair.
          As well SNP wasnt a force in Westminster in Blairs time.
          • marty mars 20.3.1.1.1

            9 June 2017 at 9:30 pm

            + 1
          • Ad 20.3.1.1.2

            9 June 2017 at 9:58 pm

            I would respect that if Corbyn was in power now. As Blair was.

            It’s faint praise to come back from the dead and get “close second”.
            Sure, praise his effort of bringing them back from the dead.

            Maybe Boris will be as incoherent as Trump, but I don’t think so.
            Boris is The CIty and Fix Hunting even more than May.

            Corbyn’s task is to show he can actually rule his MPs. Which he hasn’t done as yet. The actual Parliamentary Labour party.
            There won’t be any rescuing him from the fire now with another leadership challenge.

            Then show he can best the PM.

            This seriously ain’t over.
        • greywarshark 20.3.1.2

          9 June 2017 at 10:30 pm

          Ad
          There is an old saying – “If you can’t say anything good, say nothing at all.” You seem to be fighting to make a point and if we all agree that you have made it will you stop hitting us?
      • greywarshark 20.3.2

        9 June 2017 at 9:02 pm

        The FPP problem again, the seat is the thing and the numbers of votes can take a back seat so it skews the democracy. From the downward slide of Blair to a low levelling and 10% rise in 2017, it’s all right. We aren’t fish fingers in a factory all the same and facing the same way.
        • dukeofurl 20.3.2.1

          9 June 2017 at 9:22 pm

          You have to look at things on a regional level.
          England, Scotland, Wales , Northern island.
          the FFP numbers make more sense when you break them down that way, as the local contests are separate mostly from the national one. the are 117 seats in the 3 other regions.
          SNP only runs in Scotland etc
          • greywarshark 20.3.2.1.1

            9 June 2017 at 9:54 pm

            That is interesting – that regional preference.

            It may be better to have MMP – choose who is good for the region from those available, and then apply your mind to the national matters, it may not be so parochial as now. In the case of SNP, they might get a wider determined Scotland for aye vote but choose LibDem or Greens as well as from SNP, representing the locals.
            • dukeofurl 20.3.2.1.1.1

              10 June 2017 at 10:45 am

              Even with MMP because the regional parties only contest a smaller number of seats , and they win various portions of those, MMP would produce big overhangs as those regional parties keep their electorate seats.

              Similar effect in Germany as the CDU offshoot in Bavaria, the CSU only contests seats in that state, normally winning all of them, yet its national % of vote is quite small, so overhang is very large. As they vote with the CDU that overhang benefits them.

              if the SNP was a lot closer to UK labour, their overhang would benefit them as well , but only under MMP
21. mosa 21

    9 June 2017 at 7:48 pm

    Labour has WON without a majority in the commons.

    The Tories have LOST their majority.

    The arrogance of the Tories and their media representatives that they could take the british people for granted and expect them to do as they are told has backfired.

    Corbyn has had the opportunity to sell his vision and has increased his party’s majority and there is no question that the” real ” Labour revival has begun.

    Had the S.N.P seats held then May would have an even smaller number of seats in the Commons as Scotland has saved her even more discomfort.

    This unexpected vote in the election timetable has given Corbyn a dry run on testing his policy direction , leadership and connection with british voters and Labour people whose confidence he will need has blitzed the last Blairite leaders dismal performance in 2015.

    Hubris for May and her party is no doubt and BREXIT is looming.
22. Carolyn_nth 22

    9 June 2017 at 7:52 pm

    The latest from RNZ:

    Votes are still being counted but the Conservatives are now unable to win the 326 seats they need for an overall majority.

    The BBC is predicting a final score of 318 seats for the Conservatives (down 13 on 2015), 261 for Labour (up 29 seats), 35 seats for the SNP (a loss of 21 seats), 14 for the Lib Dems (up six), Plaid Cymru remaining on three seats, the Greens on one, UKIP on none and 18 seats to other parties.

    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has urged Mrs May to resign.

    His party says it will try to form a minority government.

    Mrs May is expected to make a statement in the coming hours.
    • The Fairy Godmother 22.1

      9 June 2017 at 8:11 pm

      Plaid Cymru got four seats gaining one off the conservatives. I got this from this excellent link Bill gave on another thread. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15336827.General_Election_2017__Check_the_results_in_your_area_with_our_live_tracker/
      • The Fairy Godmother 22.1.1

        9 June 2017 at 8:28 pm

        The Tories have 317 and are definitely going to get the one remaining Cornish seat meaning they have 318 and can get over the line with DUP the Northern Irish Orangemen party who have 10 and will support them. This makes 328 seats just over the 326 line. Sinn Fein have seven but apparently don’t take their seats. There is one independent I don’t know who they will support but the combination of 261 Labour 35 SNP 12 Lib dem 4 Plaid Cymruu and 1 Green make 313 so there is no way a left combination could beat the right combination unless there were a whole lot of sucessful recounts in the Left’s favour.
        • Carolyn_nth 22.1.1.1

          9 June 2017 at 8:38 pm

          It just looks like Labour are putting the pressure on May, presenting themselves as winners, but not seriously trying to form a government.

          But with the Conservatives having to form a government with the very right wing DUP, their future looks troubled.
          • weka 22.1.1.1.1

            9 June 2017 at 9:23 pm

            Here’s Corbyn on the BBC a couple of hours ago. The reporter is asking if he will try and form govt or if he thinks there will be another election,

            https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/873084286315909120
            • weka 22.1.1.1.1.1

              9 June 2017 at 9:29 pm

              This just got tweeted from Corbyn’s account. Odd, but I guess things are going to be up in the air for a while,

              https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/873107079405330433
              • Ad …

                9 June 2017 at 10:15 pm

                I like that.
                Good filthy tough Opposition from the get-go.
                • weka …

                  9 June 2017 at 10:21 pm

                  and/or he’s pushing for a vote of no confidence. Which would probably mean a new election (unless he can get DUP to abstain when Labour’s time comes).
                  • Poission …

                    9 June 2017 at 11:03 pm

                    DUP will not back Labour whilst Corbyn is leader.

                    Senior DUP figures claim they moved quickly to form an agreement to stop any chance of Corbyn entering Number 10 because of his and John McDonnell’s past support for Sinn Féin and the IRA.

                    “The two parties [Labour and DUP] have worked well together for two years. There’s no reason to suppose they won’t continue to do so in future. But the point made time after time to Labour MPs remains: for as long as you allow yourselves to be led by an IRA cheerleader, you exclude yourselves from entering No 10,” said a DUP source.

                    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/09/theresa-may-reaches-deal-with-dup-to-form-government-after-shock-election-result-northern-ireland
                    • weka …

                      9 June 2017 at 11:25 pm

                      thanks, that’s clear.

                      Quick of the Tories to do a deal with DUP too, but that’s probably a good thing.
        • mosa 22.1.1.2

          9 June 2017 at 8:43 pm

          You gotta love the British Irish.
    • weka 22.2

      9 June 2017 at 8:43 pm

      Interesting. They don’t have the numbers if DUP support the Cons. Maybe Labour knows something we don’t.
      • Carolyn_nth 22.2.1

        10 June 2017 at 9:59 am

        Well, I saw a video clip on Twitter this morning of an interview with an ex-Blair advisor. He said that in going into an alliance with the DUP, Theresa May will be breaking the Good Friday Agreement. i.e. The UK government needs to be an impartial presence in the relationship between the likes of Sinn Fein and the DUP.

        Some are calling for Sinn Fein to take up their seats in Parliament, if the DUP go into government with the Conservatives.

        Basically, an alliance with the DUP will cause all kinds of unstable complexities for a Conservative Government.

        “Theresa May ‘risking Northern Irish peace process to secure DUP’s Brexit votes'”
23. greywarshark 23

    9 June 2017 at 8:09 pm

    For after dinner relaxation have a look at the link on Open Mike that has been put up by esoteric pineapple about 6pm showing some fine artistic work.
24. mosa 24

    9 June 2017 at 8:21 pm

    Jeremy Corbyn and his Labour party must prepare for a second general election before the next scheduled one in 2022.

    A fixed five year term is an oxymoron.
25. Philj 25

    9 June 2017 at 8:36 pm

    This restores some faith in the common folk to vote for old fashioned policies pre Blair. The Mainsteam Media are shown, once again, to be dishonest. On RNZ’s the Panel, the experts were so surprised, and hadn’t heard much about Corbin! Except Finlay MacDonald who was not surprised by the GB result.
26. Tanz 26

    9 June 2017 at 8:39 pm

    May is still in charge, tories still have a majority, socialism held at bay. More open borders, not.
    • Ed 26.1

      9 June 2017 at 8:46 pm

      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
27. mosa 27

    9 June 2017 at 8:40 pm

    The Conservative platform in this election- ” STRONG AND STABLE ”

    The masters of understatement.
28. Mrs Brillo 28

    9 June 2017 at 8:42 pm

    And Lynton Crosby can go suck a lemon.
29. Venezia 29

    9 June 2017 at 8:43 pm

    Message for the NZ Labour party – communicate with the young. Consult with them about the best ways to do this. That includes face to face – and remember, they don’t read newspapers, they use social media.
    • Wainwright 29.1

      10 June 2017 at 12:33 am

      Communicate ABOUT somethig too, don’t simply babble the same centrist stuff at them on Facebook and Insta and think they’ll turn out. Have a message, give them hope.
30. Michael 30

    9 June 2017 at 8:57 pm

    “What are the lessons for New Zealand Labour ?” Start from scratch.
    • Ed 30.1

      9 June 2017 at 10:59 pm

      Abandon neoliberalism.
      Offer a socialist alternative.
31. mosa 31

    9 June 2017 at 8:59 pm

    Minority government here

    May also called the election because of concerns about the house of lords which has a ” built in majority against the Conservatives ” the Lords will not exceed their remit but will throw things back to the Commons to “think again ” and everytime they do that will mean another vote which is the last thing you want when you are running a ” minority government .”

    A few ” rebels ” and it falls.
    • dukeofurl 31.1

      9 June 2017 at 9:09 pm

      Dont be ridiculous.
      Under the narrow majority with Major, loosing Commons votes werent that unusual
      The actual status:
      Majority (1992–96)
      Minority (1996–97)

      Fixed term parliaments Act still applies, so 2/3 of MPs have to want an election unless its a no confidence motion.
      • mosa 31.1.1

        9 June 2017 at 10:57 pm

        Yes sure Major did an amazing job of keeping the government going despite the Maastricht Rebels but he had a majority of 18 after the April 1992 general election.

        As time went on and the majority shortened he faced continued rebellion and had to call a leadership vote which he won but he effect of instability meant a huge loss in the May 1st 1997 general election.

        May sought the election to give her a working majority and authority and has failed.

        She has lost the majority.

        Sure the fixed term act applies but in order to get the best deal with Brussels she is entering into negotiations in a weak position and still has to get the deal and its components through the upper house.

        If it proves to be to hard and the U.K ends up with a possible humiliating exit then who ever the PM is will ask MPs to to vote for an early dissolution.
32. Bill 32

    9 June 2017 at 10:00 pm

    Well done Kezia Dugdale for joining Scottish Labour with the Tories in a campaign against the SNP.

    I do hope there’s a glow of pride in knowing that idiocy helped to deliver 11 Scottish seats to the party that Scottish Labour should have been campaigning against!
    • weka 32.1

      9 June 2017 at 10:07 pm

      So what happened? Labour voters voted Tory to keep SNP out? Because of the independence referendum?
      • Bill 32.1.1

        10 June 2017 at 10:56 am

        There’ll be a post going up where I’ll lay out my thoughts and analysis. Needless to say, I’m very, very pissed with Scottish Labour at the moment. And no, the SNP and Sturgeon aren’t blameless. They handled things very badly – even stupidly.
    • dukeofurl 32.2

      10 June 2017 at 5:32 am

      You are the idiot. Thats what elections are about, unseating your opponents.
      Thats what happened when the SNP took all those seats off labour last time

      It was SNP constantly going on about another independence referendum that did them in.
      • dukeofurl 32.2.1

        10 June 2017 at 6:07 am

        Turnout was up over England , Wales, NI, except in a few seats

        Scotland , turnout was consistently down in almost all seats. Thats why SNP lost to labour, Torys, and even Lib dems, their voters stayed at home. of course the UKIP vote collapse mostly went labours way as well.

        The turnout differences are quite stark north of the border
        https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/jun/09/theresa-may-election-gamble-fail-conservatives-majority-polls
        • Bill 32.2.1.1

          10 June 2017 at 12:54 pm

          By the way. In case you doubt what I was saying about Dugdale running an anti-SNP campaign instead of an anti-government one…this is from late May.
      • Bill 32.2.2

        10 June 2017 at 10:46 am

        I’ll type this slowly in the hope you then read it slowly in order that you’re brain might arrive at some level of comprehension.

        This was a UK election. Opposition parties were campaigning to unseat candidates of the incumbent government. Those candidates were Tory candidates.

        Are you with me so far on this? Okay.

        Kezia Dugdale ran on an anti-SNP platform. Kezia Dugdale did not run on an anti-Tory platform. (Neither did Willie Rennie of the Scottish Lib Dems)

        The SNP candidates were not members of the UK government. They weren’t even members of the Scottish government.

        To (ahem) labour the point. The Scottish Greens endorsed candidates who were not Tory. The Scottish Labour Party and the Scottish Liberal Democratic Party in contrast, endorsed candidates that were not SNP.

        Labour candidates as well as candidates from other parties campaigning for seats held by SNP MPs is, as you say, what elections are all about. But the Scottish Labour Party under Kezia Dugdale explicitly stating that the SNP had to be stopped showed Kezia Dugdale up for the witless wonder that she is.

        Ruth Davidson was able to run with Dugdale’s positioning and run a wedge campaign on UK Labour and the SNP. Actually, more than that – Kezia helped create the fucking wedge and hold it in place.

        So Scottish Labour won 6 or 7 seats that will make no positive difference to the political make-up in Westminster and may even have a negative impact (more Blairites) while the Tories were able to capitalise on Labour’s anti -SNP rhetoric and get 11 seats.

        I haven’t looked at this mornings papers yet. But let me put it this way. The SNP were always going to lose seats this time around. But you have to go back a long way to the last time the Tories had 11 seats in Scotland. And you have to ask how it was, when “everyone” was out to take down Theresa May’s government, that they experienced a renaissance in Scotland.

        Kezia Dugdale is a Blairite who has been explicitly anti-Corbyn who couldn’t see beyond her visceral hatred of the SNP and the possibility to carve out a wee patch for herself and her cronies. And what could possibly go wrong with that wee game plan? UK Labour were going no-where, right?

        edit – not surprised that turn-out was down in Scotland.
      • greywarshark 32.2.3

        10 June 2017 at 11:06 am

        I think this ‘idiot’ football tossed back and forth is an idiocy in itself. All seem to agree that it was calling for another independence referendum that was the mistake by SNP. It would take up time and money and it was too soon to be revisited – no doubt was the thinking of the canny Scots.
        • Bill 32.2.3.1

          10 June 2017 at 11:08 am

          There was no call for a second referendum. That motion had already been passed by the Holyrood parliament after the BREXIT vote and before the UK election was called.
          • greywarshark 32.2.3.1.1

            10 June 2017 at 11:11 am

            Bill Ho. The stuff I was reading I must have misinterpreted.
            • Bill 32.2.3.1.1.1

              10 June 2017 at 11:34 am

              No. I guess I was reading much the same stuff.

              Scottish Labour and the Tories successfully and dishonestly made the campaign in Scotland about a second referendum. But like I say, that motion had already been debated and passed in Holyrood.

              https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/28/scottish-parliament-votes-for-second-independence-referendum-nicola-sturgeon

              Sturgeon and the SNP should have stomped on the notion very hard, just as they did last time around, when they explicitly pointed out that the UK election was not in any way anything to do with independence or referendums.

              She should also have put up Angus Robertson (SNP Leader in Westminster) to front the SNP campaign to reinforce the point that this election was about the UK, not Scotland.

              And endorsed Corbyn in England and Wales instead of running the line that he couldn’t possibly win. Fcuk. The SNP should know all about riding a wave of popular sentiment that washes polls away!

              It’s probably worth noting that much of UK Labour’s manifesto was moot for Scottish voters. (Hence lower turn-out) Education is already free. The bedroom tax has been neutered. Prescriptions are free. Privatisation of the Scottish NHS has already been rolled back. And so on and so on.

              On nationalisation, Holyrood does not have the power to re-nationalise the railways or ferries and those services were locked into European anti-competition legislation by a previous Labour led Holyrood parliament. Which is where a soft BREXIT comes into play.
    • Andre 32.3

      10 June 2017 at 7:10 am

      Yeah, that same glow of pride US greens should feel about the way their votes helped deliver Trump. Or Kelvin Davis voters knocking Hone (and a cling-on) out of the TTT seat.
33. Adrian Thornton 33

    9 June 2017 at 10:24 pm

    I have had the day off to watch the UK elections and had to listen to one political commenter after another apologize (more or less) for their past treatment of Jeremy Corbyn and Labour, I am not a vindictive guy, but it has been satisfying to see them squirm, definitely worth losing a day of work for…a quite extraordinary day in politics yet again.

    But it has been extraordinary not because of the result, no what is extraordinary, is that yet again the media (sadly including ‘left liberal’ media) has been found guilty of trying shape the news, and now seemingly are surprised that, after what can only be described as their cynical manipulation of the narrative, did not reflect what was the actual reality on the ground…

    In other words, MSM has been exposed (as in the US) again being used as an instrument for shaping news and information to conform to an ideological agenda, rather than being a vehicle for critically gathering and disseminating that information and news untainted, to help enable the public to make informed decisions and choices.

    We must hold our own media to task when we observe them indulging in this same practice..email,write, spray paint the walls, do what ever, but just do something when you see our media going ‘wrong’….I have noticed RNZ is on that slippery slope already.
    • Vinnie 33.1

      10 June 2017 at 12:06 am

      The guardian seems to be pretending they had Jeremys back
34. Smellpir 34

    9 June 2017 at 10:46 pm

    After May, the biggest loser in this result is Lynton Crosby. He has just followed the same pathway as Karl Rove in making the transition from ‘evil tory genius’ to ‘hopelessly out of touch loser’ in the space of one exit poll.
35. swordfish 35

    9 June 2017 at 10:57 pm

    .First evidence of turnout levels among younger voters – The Guardian.

    The first evidence of turnout levels among younger voters is that it rose 12 points to 56% of 18- to 34-year-olds since 2015, according to an “exit poll” by the NME/The Stream.

    The survey, based on 1,354 respondents, confirms that a majority of younger voters opted for Labour, with 60% of under-35s saying they had voted Labour.

    This rose to 66% of 18- to 24-year olds saying they had voted to back Jeremy Corbyn’s party. The survey found that 36% were first-time voters and that half went to the polls with a friend or family member, with Brexit the main factor in their decision to vote.
36. Andrew 36

    9 June 2017 at 11:14 pm

    I saw a tweet saying John McDonnell wants to form a minority govt if possible, basically saying he doesn’t want a coalition with the lib dems. Does anyone know what’s going on there?
    • weka 36.1

      9 June 2017 at 11:22 pm

      Labour don’t need coalitions. If the Cons can’t get a majority confidence vote, then Labour can have a crack. They just need the confidence vote, they don’t need a coalition.

      SNP have ruled out a coalition with Labour as well. But they have said they will support a Labour minority govt.
    • Bill 36.2

      10 June 2017 at 11:11 am

      Go to 1min 57 sec for a pretty clear explanation.
      • weka 36.2.1

        10 June 2017 at 11:36 am

        Do you know if they are still intending to do that?

        Unbelievable that the MSM still don’t know how to explain how parliament works.
        • Bill 36.2.1.1

          10 June 2017 at 11:46 am

          I’m not sure. I think May has the numbers to win that initial vote in Westminster with the backing of the DUP. (I’ve only scanned headlines) So even if 10 Tories die over the next 3 weeks and Labour wins those seats, the Tories stay in government for 5 years.
          • weka 36.2.1.1.1

            10 June 2017 at 11:51 am

            now there’s a happy thought, five years of a Tory government not being able to pass legislation.
            • Bill 36.2.1.1.1.1

              10 June 2017 at 12:11 pm

              Trying to figure how another election comes about in 6 months or so. I mean, essentially the government is paralysed – one or two backbenchers not playing ball with any given piece of legislation….

              regardless, Corbyn needs to put Dugdale out to pasture. I know there are a number of near misses and ifs and buts and what not. But she and the Scottish Labour Party did not run on a UK Labour Party platform and did not explicitly target the Tories.

              Hell, the situation after the local body elections has been Labour Councillors doing deals with Tory Councillors to lock out the SNP!

              Worth noting that Scottish Labour is not run on the same one member one vote as UK Labour. Dugdale wasn’t voted in to her position by Scottish Labour Party members – Scottish Labour’s a Blairite fiefdom.
37. AB 37

    9 June 2017 at 11:16 pm

    Have to say I’m a bit disappointed:
    – to see 11 SNP seats go to the Tories (wtf!)
    – to see FPP distort proportionality again (actually a little less obscenely this time than in 2015, but bad enough all the same)
    – to see that turnout was still depressingly low
    – to not see Con go under 300 and there be a real chance of an alternative
    – to not get the chance to see exactly how far the British establishment would have gone to oust a Corbyn-led government and if they would have disgraced themselves for a generation in so doing. (My guess is everything up to but not including a military coup)
    – to wake up tomorrow and know that Murdoch and the other Tory media moguls will keep pulling their obscene, lying Pravdaesque sh*t without any meaningful retribution
    – and to know that after the passion and drama of all this we have our own dull little charade in September presided over by intellectual giants like Hosking and Duncs and a comatose population
    • Rae 37.1

      10 June 2017 at 7:06 am

      I think younger people might have got off their bums and voted a bit.
      Scotland, a bit of an enigma there. I wonder, seeing as they voted to stay that many of those who got out for referendum, stayed home, assuming that they had it in the bag.
      And on governments being run by other interests, yup, and I think this the thing that is disturbing people, even though they might not full understand it. Trouble is, how the hell to get rid of these influences?
38. swordfish 38

    9 June 2017 at 11:20 pm

    The Guardian ….. The Paisleyites

    The DUP’s “price” for propping up a new Tory government will include a promise that there would be no post-Brexit special status for Northern Ireland, the party’s leader in Westminster has confirmed.

    Nigel Dodds, re-elected as North Belfast MP, said that among the DUP’s preconditions would be an insistence that there was no separate deal that would effectively keep the region with one foot still inside the EU.

    The DUP fears that special status after Brexit – a key demand of Sinn Féin – would de-couple Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK.

    Earlier …..

    The DUP leader, Arlene Foster, has hinted she expects May to stand down.

    “It will be difficult for her to survive given that she was presumed at the start of the campaign, which seems an awfully long time ago, to come back with maybe a hundred, maybe more, in terms of her majority,” she told BBC Radio Ulster.
39. Ovid 39

    10 June 2017 at 12:17 am
40. Rae 40

    10 June 2017 at 7:02 am

    A clear demonstration that all people, including the young, need to get out and vote, shame it has taken this debacle to kick start them.

    Biggest mistake in all of this was Cameron not making it a requirement of the Brexit vote to need at least 70% for change. Regardless of what your view is of Brexit, it was too important to be decided by what was barely more than a 50-50 vote.
41. Louis 41

    10 June 2017 at 9:42 am

    How long has May got before she is rolled?
42. exkiwiforces 42

    11 June 2017 at 12:35 am

    Found this wee gem of a quote in the Weekend Australian from Gary Lineker the Liverpool and English Striker.
    “I think Theresa May has won the own goal of the season”

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