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Leaders’ debate tonight

Written By: - Date published: 2:47 pm, November 2nd, 2011 - 55 comments
Categories: election 2011, john key, phil goff - Tags: ,

The Press Leaders’ Debate

Phil Goff and John Key

7pm tonight

Not televised, but streamed live.  Check it out.

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Once again keep an eye on the website www.keyholes.co.nz for looking at the claims that Key makes in the debate.  See also Twitter: #keyholes #ownourfuture  #voteNZ

I don’t know about you but the streaming is failing on me. What I did catch was Key trying to back out of his promise that redzoners wouldn’t be left out of pocket. Goff responded: “If you’re not going to do something, for heaven’s sake don’t promise it” and got loud applause. Twitter consensus is Goff is winning big from the get go.

Wow. Goff kicking arse on equality:

“that’s the worse argument I’ve ever heard against raising the minimum wage. You’re saying, John, that it’s OK to pay someone what you’ve just admitted is not a living wage so that you can save a few cents on your muffin”

55 comments on “Leaders’ debate tonight ”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Steady as she goes, Phil. You’ve got momentum coming out of your last good showing, and I know you’ve got the issues at your fingertips.

  2. Tigger 2

    Key loves to lecutre, doesn’t he? Also, if you removed the word ‘akshully’ from his vocab his speeches would be 50% shorter.

  3. Carol 3

    Goff’s getting all the applause so far.

  4. gobsmacked 4

    Based on the early feedback on #voteNZ …

    Goff doing very well, getting the applause. Key losing.

    Twitter 1, TVNZ 0.

  5. DS 5

    Phil gets it. He understands. The distorted market.

    It’s so good to hear.

    But wait…. Key DOESN’T have the data on the land? It doesn’t exist? What have the decisions been based on?

    • ze 5.1

      I was wondering that too.

      • Carol 5.1.1

        They have data based on areas, but not specifics of each property. So, yes, how do they make a decision for a proprty?

        • DS 5.1.1.1

          Well, you’ve got green zoned properties sitting alongside red zoned properties and they’ve justified that by saying the science proves that. But Key’s saying otherwise…

  6. just saying 6

    Goff has finally hit his stride in this campaign.
    He wont choke from here on in.
    If he gets fair coverage for the next three weeks he’ll be PM imo.
    A little bit better than a nat govt…..

  7. The Voice of Reason 7

    This is kewl. Seamless video, good sound. Phil doing OK, but Key got a decent round of applause for announcing he wouldn’t doing something or another for the people of Chch. He made it sound like apathy and indecision was a good option!
     
    Well, might have to skip the Smiths doco on Discovery and concentrate on this instead. By the way, if you are restricted to dial up, TV3 is now showing Lie to Me. Close your eyes and picture Key and it’ll be just like the real thing.

  8. Sookie 8

    Stuff has got a working livestream on their front page. Go Goff go. I’ve been surprised by the swing in tone from Stuff and Granny Herald commenters in the last week or so, who are usually rabidly pro-Nat. Not so anymore. It’s quite different from the vile ‘bash a lefty’ atmosphere of the 2008 election. Perhaps people have had enough of vapid bullshit.

    • Rodel 8.1

      Yes even that dork in the press , Hartveld or something,who usually writes like a crosby textor sycophant was nearly positive about Goff after the first debate. Does he sense that he might soon have to suck up to a new leader to get an interview or two?

  9. Carol 9

    This is a much better run debate than TV One’s Parliament Idol. Much more substance, than sound bites and opportunities to respond on both sides, without Guyon interrupting.

  10. r0b 10

    What a breath of fresh air this debate is. So much better than the nonsense TV1 format. So frustrating that its the naff debates that will have the big audiences.

  11. Pete 11

    I like the twitter commentary too – didn’t do that much in the TVNZ debate

  12. Tombstone 12

    Key looks very uncomfortable to me.

  13. Fisiani 13

    [Fisiani is currently on a ban. — r0b]

  14. Just Julie 14

    UMM Fisiani – sorry- what debate are you aksully watching????

  15. Carol 15

    Own goal, John. His question about is it fair that government passes a law knowing some people will lose jobs!

  16. Sookie 16

    Goff: “That’s the worst argument I have ever heard. That someone should get less than a living wage so you pay a few cents less for your muffins.”

    Goff just made me LOL. Jaysus, who knew? 🙂

  17. DS 17

    Did Key just say that not selling the Assets was another $7-9Billion on the deficit?

    Huh?

  18. Salsy 18

    Can someone tell me why in the fuck Labour havent got their costings?

    • Carol 18.1

      Dunno, but maybe they are planning to release the costings at a specific time, for some reason.

    • PC Brigadier 18.2

      unfortunately, for that reason, I think Key has just roasted Goff. Poor performance from Goff in an otherwise great debate for him over Key.

    • PREFU only just came out and they are still finalizing things.  The Nats had the figures for a while.  The benefit of incumbency.

  19. Curious 19

    Oh no – Key king hit – Goff looks a Goof

  20. just saying 20

    Damn but this debate is good.
    More please.

  21. Goff is being far too passive, he won’t swing voters as long as he lets Key walk all over him.
    When Goff pulls Key up he’s great, but it doesn’t happen often enough, he lets Key get far too many free passes

    • PC Brigadier 21.1

      He “actually” needs Guyon to interject and save him now. He’s taking a bath on not knowing his own costings. Shame. Maybe most went to bed before this last 1/3 of the debate.

    • Carol 21.2

      I think probably Cunliffe has the figures in his head but Goff doesn’t. Clark used to have such things in her head.

      But Key doesn’t convince either, he does come across like a shonkey salesman, blinding his audience with selective figures.

      Key is confident, though when talking about figures. He doesn’t understand much else about managing all the dimensions of society, though.

      • RedLogix 21.2.1

        I think probably Cunliffe has the figures in his head but Goff doesn’t.

        Goff also knows that Key is trying to sucker him into an explanation in detail. In a debate format like this ‘explaining is losing’.

        • Zorr 21.2.1.1

          Maybe we can suggest a 4 man per team “Tag Team” style debate? ^_^

          “And Goff is tagging out to let Cunliffe in to the ring…”

          Because at the end of the day, we aren’t just electing the PM and we need to have confidence in the whole team rather than just the head.

          • Carol 21.2.1.1.1

            Also, I think for a lot of voters, the numbers go over their heads… I’m pretty numerate, but when Key starts spouting his numbers in a debate, my eyes glaze over. I need to see them on paper and concentrate on them for a bit.

            I want to be able to have confidence in the PM and the team. I think Cunliffe knows where he’s at on the figures. I like some things about Goff, eg when he speaks with passion, but not everything. Labour needs some input from other left parties e.g. the Greens. Key just comes across to me like a Ponzi, or trans-Tasman bridge salesman.

        • Curious 21.2.1.2

          Looking like you no idea is even worse. Very bad look. Lucky for Goff it wasn’t on TVNZ/TV3 but will probably be in most of the op/eds tomorrow.

        • the sprout 21.2.1.3

          ‘explaining is losing’

          exactly

      • ianmac 21.2.2

        Something David/Phil said the other day was that they have costed their plan. My guess is that they get the policy out but not too soon with the figures, so that the Key lot don’t get too much time to refute/mess with the numbers.

    • just saying 21.3

      I’m no fan of Goff, but to be fair to him, Key lies so much, it just wouldn’t be feasible to pull him up on almost* every word he says.

      *Assuming there was some truth sprinkled into all that bullshit.

  22. DJL 22

    Funny Key has all the numbers for labour but doean’t explain any of his own. Does he have any? I mean besides the ones he pulls out of the air.

  23. ianmac 23

    I didn’t like the way that Key often said, “Its a bit too complicated for you but I have been studying numbers all my life and I will try and explain it to you dumb ignorant people.”
    Well no. He didn’t akshully say it like that but his intent seemed that way to me.

    • Curious 23.1

      You have an inferiority complex

      • ianmac 23.1.1

        Don’t think so Curious. Just let the experts say their piece and leave it to me to make sense of it. (Always suspicious of jargon chuckers as the more the jargon the less the credibility. I think Phil talked straight without the condescension. )

      • Carol 23.1.2

        No, Key comes across as arrogant, smarmy and a bit of a snake oil salesman when he talks like that. Probably impresses righties and finance speculators, but he won’t convince a lot of voters with that kind of condescending manner.

  24. Tombstone 24

    bah … Key looked like a wanker as always. My wife and I both agree that Goff made Key look very small for the most part. When someone has to start waffling and going into long winded explanations to justify things all the time it says one thing – they know they’re on the ropes and they have some explaining to do. I loved Key’s speil about how the rich spend more money on this that and the other – nice for some eh. Well done Phil … another kick in the bollocks for Key!

  25. Jester 25

    Poor performance when the leader doesnt even know his own costings. Perhaps Helen hasnt sent them to him yet.

    • Carol 25.1

      Key doesn’t really understand Labour’s figures. In as many days he has said Labour has an $18 hole, a $16 dollar hole, and now a $14 hole. He’s making it up as he goes.

      • Curious 25.1.1

        the $14b, as Key stated more than once, refers to GST on Fruit & Vege, 5000 tax free, and capital spending without mixed ownership proceeds hence the difference to the other numbers since it doesn’t include R & D etc…

  26. anne 26

    Perhaps leading key on to make an ass of himself over the money issue allows labour to attack the lack of intelligent economic policy,labour will make their costings known when the time is right,not when the baffoon demands it,key has borrowed tax payers money like their is no
    end to it.

  27. anne 27

    Key’s mantra is always baffle them with bullshit, he takes most of nz for granted.

  28. Gazza 28

    Goff has got to learn not to rise to Key’s snide one line comments that is where he makes Goff look stupid.
    Those snide remarks with a smile of arrogance, if ignored will get Key showing his true colours.

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