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Left wing blogs aren’t “the same”

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, August 19th, 2014 - 165 comments
Categories: blogs, john key, Left, slippery - Tags:

On Morning Report yesterday John Key was busy casting all sorts of aspersions, and refusing to say that clearly odious behaviour by Judith Collins, Jason Ede and Cameron Slater was wrong1.

But some of the aspersions were against shock horror left wing bloggers!

As a left wing blogger I take personal umbrage.

Labour MPs don’t send us personal details to launch horrible personal attacks.

And they haven’t had the power to even think about betraying their civil servants, or tell us about doing dodgy OIAs of hastily declassified documents…

We’ve not been involved in any sort of intimidation to drive ordinary people from politics.

There is no equivalence. [Update: As also stated by RNZ political reporter Brent Edwards on Morning Report this morning (7:25am)]

Just as there is no equivalence between Key’s “left wing blogger” Keith Ng and the Labour donor hack.  Ng found out about the Work and Income loophole and told Work and Income to plug it before publishing it – without downloading any personal data.  Ede and and an unknown National Party Head Office staffer didn’t alert Labour, but would appear to have downloaded the private details with Ede & Slater having the intention to discourage people joining and donating to Labour.

In reality Labour is run on the smell of an oily rag and don’t have the resources to get as much stuff as they should get out to bloggers, before they could even think about getting the dodgy stuff out…

But then National are scrambling, which has resulted in bare-faced lies and farce, as they run the lines of “made stuff up” and “unravelling”.

Key last night was saying there’s ‘nothing new’ in the email leaks now being dribbled out – but Slater’s finding the rego numbers of Green Party activists and then tracking their names and addresses down and passing them to Ede is not in Hager’s book.

Collins is saying she only gave Slater a public servant’s name because it was already public… but it wasn’t anywhere before Slater’s blog, and if it was public why did Slater need to ask Collins?

And now they’re rolling out random robberies of MPs from a year ago.  Cunliffe’s been robbed too, and Hone’s had a bullet fired into his office – Hager and his left-wing conspiracy have been busy!

So we get to Key saying that the left is playing dirty (!) and it’s because they don’t want to debate the “big issues”.  The Left has been trying to debate the issues since Key became National’s leader – but it’s Key who’s too busy smiling and waving and being a celebrity and posing for a selfie or planking to debate the issues.  The chance to debate something substantive would be a fine thing!

We look forward to Key engaging properly on asset sales and tax cuts for the rich and bigger class sizes and where their climate change policies are sending us and… but we won’t hold our breath.

  1. How many calling for Collins/Ede sacking now?  Hooton, Garner, …

165 comments on “Left wing blogs aren’t “the same” ”

  1. Perhaps someone should ask him to show us the money..

    • the pigman 1.1

      Unfortunately Tom, I’m afraid not even Keys knows where that’s gone. It has long since been secreted away to Hawaii and subsequently invested in a number of Cayman Islands-based private equity funds running diversified portfolios consisting of ex-SOEs from places like Myanmar and New Zealand (with the odd holding in corporate media)…

  2. cogito 2

    Gawd save us all if Key gets re-elected.

    To those who are still saying that they are having trouble finding a copy of Dirty Politics, there’s a link from Craig Potton publishing and it can be downloaded in minutes.

    • karol 2.1

      I’m waiting for the second order of hard copies to be delivered to Auckland’s outer burbs.

      • Bunji 2.1.1

        You can order hard copies online from Craig Potton – that’s how I got my copy… (free postage)

        • karol 2.1.1.1

          Thanks, will do that if I don’t get one tomorrow.

          Edit: Oh, at the link it says:

          Due to high customer demand this title is temporarily out of stock and should be available from 20th August. Either order now and we will courier the book to you when new stock arrives or check with your local bookseller.

          I have my name down on the waiting list at my local bookseller.

          • grumpystilskin 2.1.1.1.1

            FYI:
            Whitcoulls in the downtown mall (opposite britomart), Akld. Still have a few and are getting more in on Weds.
            I bought mine there yesterday (monday 18th) late afternoon.

            • karol 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Thanks, but that means a trek into the CBD. I can wait.

              I’m actually not so bothered about reading it urgently.

    • NickS 2.2

      It’s also available on Amazon for US$21 for the ebook version. I’m going to grab a copy next week, thanks partly to the awesome staff at the local WINZ branch who helped bump my benefit up by $20 /evilgrin

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      E-book from Amazon

      US$21 dollars. Still, cheaper than NZ$35 for the hardcopy.

      • greywarbler 2.3.1

        Resist that cheaper if you buy it overseas syndrome DTB. Isn’t the desire for cheapness above all else, the thing that has taken us so far into dirty politics.

        Can you say what the cover design is?

        • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.1

          Personally, I’m of the opinion that they should have released an ebook from their own website. I suspect that the publishers released from Amazon so that:

          1. They didn’t have to build their own webpage and
          2. So that they could utilise Amazon’s size

          They didn’t do the first because they’re cheap and they did the second in the misplaced idea that it would increase sales but as the book really only applies to NZ I doubt it would do that.

          Of course, I’m the person who thinks that the government should buy up TradeMe and have NZ ebooks on there.

          Isn’t the desire for cheapness above all else, the thing that has taken us so far into dirty politics.

          Not specifically. Dirty Politics is a result of a few people in politics only for the power and wealth. The desire for cheapness is the cause for our increasing poverty though.

          • TheContrarian 2.3.1.1.1

            Why should the govt. buy up Trademe?

          • TheContrarian 2.3.1.1.2

            Actually why is one question.

            Also

            How should the govt. buy up trademe given it isn’t for sale?

          • greywarbler 2.3.1.1.3

            @ DTB 20/8 9.42
            Like you idea of govt buying up Trademe. It’s been a great taonga but now being used as a plaything for large sellers etc offshore. It’s another example of a good NZ enterprise being snaffled off and the running methods changing and the income stream going to offshore people.

            I have long traded with Trademe and find it still okay but diminishing in brownie points. I understand Wheele has dropped off. Lacked dedication.

    • tricledrown 2.4

      If Key gets re elected McCready and Penny Bright will get enough crowd funding to force him and co conspirers into the justice system Key will be an embarrassment just like Berluconi!

  3. tricledrown 3

    Cameron Slater must have known in advance that this book was coming out!
    After revelations David Cameron John Keys close friend has involvement with 5eyed echelon network who have been found to be to manipulate political discourse in the UK.
    John Key No doubt has the same access to Those capabilities!
    srylands being the obvious plant!

  4. tricledrown 4

    Berend de Boer Gosman BM Puckish Rogue all following the same modus operandi at least 1 or 2 are involved in echelon as well as Key the Con-duit of dirty tricks!

  5. Awww 5

    Key is claiming the left has it’s own sociopaths, but left wing policies aren’t usually sociopath friendly.

    • dv 5.1

      “Key is claiming the left has it’s own sociopaths
      Does that mean he is admitting that Slater etc are sociopaths?

    • crocodill 5.2

      At least he admits National is full of sociopaths. If he keeps this up his name will change to Honest John. And let’s not be unkind or ignorant. A sociopath isn’t an inherently bad person. Depending on the style of expression of their personality they might be well suited to administrative work. What we’re seeing is closer to criminal psychopathy. Mr. Key probably shouldn’t deal in terms that few people know the real meaning of – though possibly his intention is to disrupt.

      • emergency mike 5.2.1

        ‘A sociopath isn’t an inherently bad person.’

        You might want to check up on a definition of sociopath crocodill. Some people argue that there is no meaningful difference between ‘psychopath’ and ‘sociopath’.

      • greywarbler 5.2.2

        One slogan for a billboard about honest john – when a signwriter got confused.

        Honest Car – Used John Dealer.

  6. Peter 6

    Has there every been anyone anywhere who can simply make stuff up on the fly and get away with it as he does. Key is an embarassment to all New Zealanders. I cringe reading this stuff.

  7. unsol 7

    I would say that in many ways the only reason why the left may not be proven to be as dirty is because, like you say, you live off the smell of an oily rag & because you haven’t been the party in govt.

    I suspect had this kind of tech been available in the 2008 election, some of you would def have attempted to stoop as low as Slater & some would love to now…if they could. Just look at the way Bradbury writes about Slater & Key etc. no evidence of trying to take the high road at all yet seeks to assert moral superiority. That’s Slater all over and he would no doubt love to have the kind of access Slater does, but about the right….and in fairness, Slater is actually keen to get dirt in any pollie he doesn’t like…left or right. He certainly doesn’t conform 100% to a right wing agenda as has often done things to undermine the current govt. For example look at the conversations he had with the ex prostitute in the Herald or the many posts he has written on the senior political figure in the National Party he calls Mr B.

    So from an observers point of view I reckon the left is capable of dishing out plenty of vitriol & malevoilenc when it suits….especially in the comment section even if the posts are calm & rational (which Slater’s rarely are!)! 😉

    That said Slater, his ‘army’ & Ede are still in a world of their own when it comes to the level of bottom feeding they are prepared to do. I don’t have an issue with them tracking down the rego or address of the election board vandals, but using the info to target the person/s instead of passing it onto the police is vigilantism which is completely unacceptable as is the Nat’s enabling of such behaviour. I’m just surprised Slater didn’t publish their addresses!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1

      I’m sure you can find examples in comments here at The Standard. At least, of contempt expressed for Slater or Key. Contempt which Hager shows their actions merit entirely. Show me the equivalent posts. Show me the equivalent comments and/or posts orchestrated from the leaders’ offices of any Left party.

      • unsol 7.1.1

        I agree – there is no Slater equivalent of left-wing posts…partly because the left doesnt have access to the same level of $$ & resources & the world wasn’t quite as techy pre 2008, but also because, apart from Bradbury (whose bark is admittedly often worse than his bite)…..there is just no blogger that could ever be quite as vile as that guttersnipe Slater.

        My point in my longwinded way 😉 was that the left may not be the same in terms of stooping to the same kind of bottom-feeding Slater et al are so comfortable doing, but that doesn’t mean they have always been completely honourable or would be completely honourable if they had access to the same stuff.

        The difference is that the left wing bloggers tend to intellectualise things more than they care to incite violence. And it is this that I think will be Slater’s undoing as he is just too toxic now, it is not politically expedient for the Nat’s to align themselves with him or anyone close to him, including Collins.

    • Murray Olsen 7.2

      One difference between Bomber and Blubber Boy is that Bomber doesn’t generally make stuff up. He has a tendency toward hyperbole, but is not nasty like Blubber Boy.

      You seem to be quite a cunning little Tory, but I’m convinced you are one. You always go a wee bit far with your posts, unsol.

  8. Harriet 8

    “…..There is no equivalence…..”

    HA HA HA LOL.

    Spare the cynicism.

    Most lefties commenting here in the past month — thought that Hamas using children to protect their missles, and Israel using missiles to protect their children, was equivalence. Of some sort. It obviously wasn’t.

    You lot don’t know the meaning of anything. Ever. Your definatly not like us Christian Conservatives.

    • ianmac 8.1

      What on earth is that about Harriet? Makes no sense at all to me.

      • vto 8.1.1

        It’s how right wing people think and analyse ianmac. Grab the closest bunch of knee-jerk reactions, mix them in a bowl, and throw around with great glee and abandon.

        Harriet sounds like a long time expert.

        • greywarbler 8.1.1.1

          It’s right wing popcorn! Throw the bits into a bowl yes, apply heat, overcook them, then open the lid to let it all fly out.

      • Tom Jackson 8.1.2

        Harriet comments frequently on Kiwiblog and is regarded as an unhinged nutter by most of the unhinged nutters who post there.

    • millsy 8.2

      ” Your definatly not like us Christian Conservatives.”

      Yeah, we dont go off on daily progroms against homosexuals, or do we burn books on evolution.

      • Puckish Rogue 8.2.1

        The amount of anti-semitic comments directed towards John Key makes your comment rather amusing

        • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.1.1

          The amount of evidence that anti-semitism is a Left wing value is zero.

          • Puckish Rogue 8.2.1.1.1

            The amount of anti-semitic comments against John Key on National hoardings is concerning but its ok because its against John Key

            • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.1.1.1.1

              Said no-one ever, apart from you.

            • McFlock 8.2.1.1.1.2

              so everyone who defaces a national hoarding is left wing, even if they used right-wing symbols and concerns?

              fuck you.

              • Puckish Rogue

                I would suggest that someone defacing a right wing political party hoarding is more likely to vote left wing however I would also suggest that the left wing plonkers doing this type of defacing are probably as thick as two short planks (so probably GIMP voters) and don’t realise the full implication of what they’re doing

                • Tracey

                  is this your justification for key, collins, slater, lusk, williams, odgers, hootons behaviour?

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Of course not, its really to show that politics is a dirty game (which i think we all know) its really all about who can plausibly deny or sufficiently muddy the waters (as the case maybe) to win power

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      No, no, no. Cut!

                      Will you please at least try and follow Dear Leader’s line, that this is a smear campaign to distract from the real issues!

                      And stop projecting. Not everyone has your low character.

                    • framu

                      but your using a comparison between senior govt members running a smear machine and some random nob ends defacing billboards to do so

                      doesnt that strike you as somewhat ineffectual?

                • McFlock

                  maybe they’re farther right wing than nat?
                  Maybe they’re non-voters who have latched onto chapman’s mob as a result of our brighter future?

                  I would suggest that you find it convenient to blame “the left” for anything bad, even if the actual perpetrators might quite literally have right wing bumper stickers.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    I do find it convenient to blame the left when its right wing hoardings being targeted, just like I’d blame the right when its left-wing hoardings being vandalised

                    • framu

                      ever considered random acts of vandalism?

                      In regards to election hoardings i would be willing to bet they are inflicted on the govt more than the opposition.

                      Nothing to do with tribal or partisan politics and everything to do with being young and stupid (an affliction that both rich and poor kids suffer from)

                      did you never rebel against your parents as a teen or something?

                    • McFlock

                      funny, because last election in epsom the nat candidate was ripping down signs in favour of him that he didn’t actually put up. Someone took pictures, and everything.

                    • Anne

                      You might be interested to know far more left-wing hoardings have been damaged/destroyed than right wing hoardings in my electorate.

            • adam 8.2.1.1.1.3

              The assumptions begin again from PR. Play a different tune mate, tired, old, and boring. Anti-Semitism has a long history in NZ and the overwhelming majority is right wing hate groups. Get a grip, Neo Nazis hate neo-liberalism too PR. So stop with the assumptions, it’s becoming like a tired L.P, and your hurting my ears with your lies. Look to your own, they have the track record.

              • Puckish Rogue

                So right wing types are targeting the only real option for a right wing governments hoardings or left wingers are targeting right wing hoardings

                Yeah I’m going to have to go with lefties are bad on this one

                • framu

                  how about the fact the putting up offensive grafitti is pretty much stock standard behaviour for any young hoodlum since the year dot?

                  Or is every swastika the work of a committed anti semite?

                  your insistance that this is some leftie action is stupid in the extreme – youve been going on it for weeks now – give it up – its really dumb and has been explained to you repeatedly

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Sigh Its not about whats right or wrong its about what the public believe, its about muddying the waters, its about anything that gets your message over and above the opposition or nullifying it

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Yes we know that. Interesting that you choose now to confirm it. Weary of malevolent deceit?

                    • framu

                      its you who is saying its the work of left wing activists – why cant you accept a very real and quite likely scenario that its just random vandals?

                      whats this “Its not about whats right or wrong its about what the public believe” bullshit?

                      you are putting forward a scenario – repeatedly. Others point out the flaws in said scenario.

                      We cant discuss the motivations of the mythical people in your scenario because we havent yet accepted the damn scenario to begin with

              • JKV

                [deleted]
                [lprent: A particularly stupid troll. ]

                • NickS

                  Oh look, another lying idiot parroting the point refuted a thousand times (aka PRATT) that the Nazi’s were left wing just because they had “socialism” in their name, cutely ignoring the Nazi’s actual political policies and actions 🙄

                  What next, that they were homosexuals?

                • framu

                  OK thicko

                  do all jews live in israel?

                  do all jews support the current israeli govt?

                  Ergo – is the govt of israel the same thing as all jews everywhere in the world ever?

                  The marches are anti israeli govt – not anti jew

                • adam

                  What are you on JKV (john key victim?)? Seriously have you read no history? are you quoting that Muppet from Fox?

                  Do you not understand the political spectrum? The authoritarian left are Stalinist or Maoists – the libertarian left are communal anarchists, communists or syndicalist, post ecological or green. The near centre of the left is the social democrat’s and socialists.

                  On the Authoritarian right are dictatorships and Fascism. (which Nazism is but one of a verity – see also Spain or Italy). The libertairan right, which are individualistic anarchists- capitalist, primitive, nihilists and egoists. Near the centre are the conservatives (traditional meaning not to be confused with Colleen Craig) and liberals

                  Like the Tax payers union JKV, names are full of oxymorons. You banged one right on the head.

            • greywarbler 8.2.1.1.1.4

              Oh Puckish R are you concerned? Tut tut. Do you keep a score card for counting the number of your concerns in a day? So you can see that you are still alive. What is your highest score? And if you take an interest in the world you will live forever. Somehow I feel that would be the true hell.

        • millsy 8.2.1.2

          I didnt know Kyle Chapman and his mates were left-wingers.

        • Murray Olsen 8.2.1.3

          I haven’t seen any anti-semitism directed at Key on this blog, or at least not that I can remember. I have seen a heap of garbage posted by pukish rogue.

          • William Guy 8.2.1.3.1

            Hey Murray, good to see I am not the only one up this late.

            There is a new left wing collective that I am involved with starting up – it’d be great if you could check us out.

            We are at fundamental.org.nz

    • framu 8.3

      jesus would be disgusted by your sick and immoral support of brutality

      • Harriet 8.3.1

        How are they ‘brutal’?

        The IDF is the most moral millitary in the history of warfare.

        They use very expensive guided missiles so as to limit collateral damage. And under the rules of war they don’t need to do so. The IDF also load the missiles with small warheads so as to limit damage, and again that is not called for in the rules of war.

        I don’t see a problem in they way that they defend themselves.

        And besides, fighting a war for almost three quarters of a century, and from only having just survived a holocaust prior to the start of the war – surely then some ‘understandable collateral damage’ by Israel can be forgiven – given that their current opposition wants the same eventual outcome for the ‘Jews’ as that of the Nazis.

        • vto 8.3.1.1

          defend themselves against an imprisoned population.

          you sound like South African president PW Botha.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1.2

          The IDF is the most moral millitary in the history of warfare.

          No, they’re not. They haven’t changed from when they started with outright terrorist actions against innocents.

          • Harriet 8.3.1.2.1

            Learn some history.

            They had a millitary prior to the IDF. The Last one took on the Romans.

            Get used to it. Where else are the Jews ever going to go – to be safe after 2000yrs of general persecution?

            They can only fight to the death.

            And that’s what Iran wants anyway…. isn’t it?

            • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1.2.1.1

              Learn some history.

              I’ve learned some history which is why I know that Israel was born in the blood of innocents spilled by psychopaths.

              The Last one took on the Romans.

              And lost which is why the Jews don’t have a country any more.

              Where else are the Jews ever going to go – to be safe after 2000yrs of general persecution?

              Well, the USA seems to be overly concerned about them – perhaps they’d be willing to give them Texas. But, of course, the corrupt USA and her toadies were really only interested in giving them someone else’s land.

            • tricledrown 8.3.1.2.1.2

              Harriet go to the Gaza strip and live out your bigoted dream!
              The Israeli Defence Force is stopping moderate Israeli’s from protesting against their fundamentalist Govt action!

        • NickS 8.3.1.3

          /facepalm

          Because a “moral military” so totes uses anti-personal flechette shells in a built up area with a very high risk of civilian causalities: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-using-flechette-shells-in-gaza

          Let alone uses artillery on targets surrounded by fucking houses, rather than sending in troops on the ground to minimise civilian causalities. Like they did the last two intifada’s with minimal IDF losses and far less civilian deaths.

          But you’ve been told this before, and still repeat the same line of bullshit and probably don’t regard the civilians in Gaza as human, making you a shit of human being and on the moral level of islamist fundamentalist fuckwits who think suicide bombings on civilian targets is okay as long as infidels die. Or in your case, those “others” that are Palestinians trapped in Gaza, for which the murder of is of no importance.

          • McFlock 8.3.1.3.1

            Nothing says “moral high ground” like a baby with phosphorous burns, I guess.

            Awesome spectator sport, apparently.

        • framu 8.3.1.4

          ” surely then some ‘understandable collateral damage’ by Israel can be forgiven ”

          holy fuck!

          fuck off you disgusting little peddler of filth

        • Tracey 8.3.1.5

          But who will you vote for?

          Key? Nope he is involved in feeding and supporting someone who has no morals
          ACT? 17% of their MPs have been convicted of deceit
          Dunne? He stands up for family values but thinks dirty politics is ok, and will support its biggest proponent, Key
          Colin Craig party? He has been very slow to condemn key, collins and theit tactics

          Labour?

          Where does a good christian such as yourself go?

        • ghostwhowalksnz 8.3.1.6

          Ask the people in the suburb of Beirut flattened by the IDF about the nice rules of war Israel uses
          “The Dahiya doctrine is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general Gadi Eizenkot that pertains to asymmetric warfare in an urban setting, in which the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure. [1] The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the 2006 Lebanon War.[2] Israel has been accused of implementing the strategy during the Gaza War.” Wikipedia

    • Colonial Viper 8.4

      You lot don’t know the meaning of anything. Ever. Your definatly not like us Christian Conservatives.

      So explain something to me…how come the staunchest supporters of Israel are Christian Conservatives like yourself. For starters I thought that Israel as a Jewish state doesn’t even recognise Christ as the Son of God.

      Yet you support Israel and the wiping out of Palestine? So what’s that all about?

      • millsy 8.4.1

        Some of these god-botherers are still stuck in the Crusader era. They think that the children of Gaza are dirty Saracens who want to take the Holy City.

        It’s ironic that the Christian Conservatives hate Muslims so much. The seem to agree on 95% of issues.

      • Harriet 8.4.2

        Islam is the religion of peace?

        Well with all the Muslim’s literaly at each others throats – that’s not peace as Christians understand it – for Israel or elsewhere.

        And why would you ever think that Israel isn’t deserving of the love and support from Christians – what has Israel ever done to Christians?

        • millsy 8.4.2.1

          Why do you think it is OK to Israel to butcher and murder innocent civilians?

          • Harriet 8.4.2.1.1

            No they don’t.

            The Israeli government decided after 13 yrs that having missiles lobbed almost daily into their country was never going to be accepted as ‘normal’ by the general populace. So too did lots of other countries in the UN, namely all 17 African countries who are currently fighting muslim war mongers. Those countries back Israel as it gives them leverage for western support. Most have large Christian populations too.

            Anyway, it was kinda funny to see the left here moan when the Israeli people threw away the ‘old ideas’ of ‘normal’ and ’embraced the new’.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 8.4.2.1.1.1

              Who would Jesus bomb?

              • Harriet

                Jesus you may recall did not walk this earth 2000yrs ago hugging, kissing, smiling, waving, dreaming, and basket weaving. He was not a time waster. He wasted no one’s time in pointing out the Truth to them.

                If you read about His time here you will find he had some very very unpleasant things to say – and said them very very sternly.

                He didn’t suffer fools gladly. Either.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  This fool asked you a question. It wasn’t “who would Jesus scold ?”.

                  • You_Fool

                    I am pretty sure he is on record saying to not bomb the shit out of heathens, cause his dad will sort them out in the afterlife, which is way cooler than this shitstorm of a realm anyway

                • McFlock

                  he also fed the hungry and healed the sick.

                  by reputation, he wasn’t one for shelling schools or hospitals.

                • Tracey

                  your comments on tnis thread are all predicated on your invisible friend being real. He isnt.

                • Minarch

                  He certainly wasted your time by the sounds of it harriet

                  a whole lives worth of time……….

                • tricledrown

                  Harriet he didn’t suffer fools lightly I am 100% sure you would be one of the first he would ask god to strike down!
                  Bigoted brainless fool that you are just because you know some convoluted scriptures doesn’t stop the fermented evil and hatred in your heart.
                  lighten up learn to love yourself and turn the other cheek;

                • tricledrown

                  Harriet parting shot excuse the pun!
                  I have read a lot on psychology in my social work!
                  Racial Bigots don’t come in for kind mention low IQ poor education poor social skills!

            • thatguynz 8.4.2.1.1.2

              There’s something brutally ironic about getting lectured on peace by a proponent of christianity..

            • tricledrown 8.4.2.1.1.3

              Harriett the reason why Muslims are fighting because of the way Israel has treated its Arab population.
              Israel is making millions out of selling arms to these countries!
              Now you are supporting a race that has 2,000 year old grievance but you r racist fundamentalist fervour back in New Zealand is Hypocritical a mere 170 year old treaty with Christian Maori doesn’t count!

            • framu 8.4.2.1.1.4

              pretty sure the IDF kills innocent kids – why just recently there were two news stories about exactly this happening

            • Minarch 8.4.2.1.1.5

              There not missiles, they are rockets with no guidance system & a very small payload

              and completely ineffective against the irondome

              Its like throwing rocks at a tank…

        • Macro 8.4.2.2

          They crucified Christ for a start. Then they systematically went about hunting down and murdering his followers… But you must know that.

          Your view of what constitutes Christianity is not mine. Jesus was profoundly non-violent. Does turn the other cheek not mean anything to you? On His arrest his followers drew their arms but he told them to put them down, this was not a time for retaliation. “Love your neighbour as yourself” – Is this how Israel treats the Ghetto of Gaza? Israel, more than any other Nation on Earth, should understand what it is to be incarcerated in a Ghetto.

          Christians, along with everyone else, need to be counselling Israel on moderating and desisting in its aggressive behaviour towards Gaza, and assisting in humanitarian efforts to relieve their suffering. Only then will true peace be achieved.

          • Colonial Viper 8.4.2.2.1

            It’s my belief that most of today’s “right wing conservative Christians” use the name of the lord and saviour Jesus Christ to do nothing more than propagate teachings, activities and attitudes which are 100% contrary to what Christ himself espoused.

            And you know what that means they have become.

          • Harriet 8.4.2.2.2

            Last time I looked Israel allowed people to drink and have homosexual relations. And prostitute themselves. And gamble. They don’t refuse so called Palestinians from doing so. Isreal! is very liberal y’know.

            If the Arabs have really been living in a ghetto, then why haven’t all of their ‘oil brothers’ not been more charitable?

            A billion dollars from Arab countries and the UN spent on tunnels and missiles in a decade?—-

            —– the NZ teachers union wouldn’t have that —- not with the high cost of a liberal education —- and in a country of less than four million.

            • Colonial Viper 8.4.2.2.2.1

              Israel is a liberal and open democracy if you are Jewish; just like being white in apartheid South Africa gave you all the privileges of participating in a liberal and open democracy.

              Remind me again why as a “conservative Christian” you are supporting a Jewish state? Didn’t the Jews crucify your Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

              • adam

                Deicide, is a odd argument to put C.V. Indeed the last government to use that line of argument, rolled tanks into Poland.

                As an argument, it was used to start Pogroms, and has a long nasty history with radical Anti-Semitism.

                Indeed, it was one of the fundamental tenants of Christian Anti-Semitism. The majority of Christians now reject the deicide argument. Most agree with the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965), when the Roman Catholic Church issued a declaration which repudiated the belief in the collective Jewish guilt for the crucifixion of Jesus.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Since when did the Christian Right recognise Papal edicts?

                  Palestinians are semites. They are in fact, more truly semitic than Jewish immigrants to Israel from Europe, the Americas and Russia. You don’t seem to have any problem with anti-semitic action which targets Palestinians.

                  The Israelis have turned Gaza into an open air ghetto with slowly starving occupants. So yes, they did learn from post-Weimar Germany, didn’t they.

                  • adam

                    When have I ever said anything other then attacks on Gaza are wrong?

                    I called you out for using deicide, and you go off ranting in a different direction.

                    Do you need a link for deicide?

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deicide

                    I’m saying, you comment was ill informed and quite frankly, racist. But, no lets play the blame game, it so much simpler than maybe looking at the language we use and deciding it quite crappy. But feel free -rant some more, prove your own ignorance.

              • JKV

                [deleted]
                [lprent: A particularly stupid troll. ]

                • Murray Olsen

                  The Zionists are complicit in the death of Gaza.
                  Why do Arab Israelis have a different identity card to Jewish Israelis?
                  Would you like a ticket to the Sderot cinema. Maybe the deluxe prize would include a visit to an artillery base, where you could write hate messages on shells before they’re fired. I understand it’s quite popular, especially with young kids. Almost seems like an official activity for young Zionists, but surely not with the most moral army in the world?

                  Stick your Hasbara lies where the Sun don’t shine.

              • Murray Olsen

                CV, the Republic of South Africa was no liberal democracy for the whites. It was the type of society Colin Craig would have felt at home in. It was very stilted and conservative.

            • framu 8.4.2.2.2.2

              all i really have to say harriet is israel has learned the lessons and language of the historical oppressors of the jewish people all too well

              you are a text book example

              warsaw ghetto – west bank and gazza – is there any difference apart from whos locked up?

            • Tracey 8.4.2.2.2.3

              speaking of prostitues have you read dirty politics?

            • Murray Olsen 8.4.2.2.2.4

              As far as I know, I don’t have any homosexual relations. All my family are boringly straight, but it’s good to know that, if I had a lesbian cousin, Israel would let me live. Unless I was at an address in Gaza, of course.

              Jeez, Harriet, did the Hasbara department forget to give you the psych test before they hired you? Or are you a high level Hasbara operative like Whalespew, and therefore exempt?

        • framu 8.4.2.3

          umm – “killed jesus” would be my first bet 🙂

          if your going to defend israel on ancient history then ancient crimes would apply as well

      • TheContrarian 8.4.3

        “how come the staunchest supporters of Israel are Christian Conservatives like yourself.”

        Because the book of Revelation states that when there is peace in Israel Jesus comes back…and slaughters the Israelite’s.

        • Colonial Viper 8.4.3.1

          yeah I’ve heard about this being an underlying driver, but I suspect you are more informed on the details than I am.

          • TheContrarian 8.4.3.1.1

            The Conservative Christians in the US are convinced the Bible is literally true and Revelations is prophecy yet fulfilled.

            When Israel is at peace and inhabited by the Jew it is said Jesus will come back so the Christian Conservatives of course want to hasten this along. Ironically for reasons that are not in the Israelites favour

            • grumpystilskin 8.4.3.1.1.1

              A lot also believe it’s not a prophecy, but a blueprint.
              Think about that..

            • Anne 8.4.3.1.1.2

              The Conservative Christians in the US are convinced the Bible is literally true and Revelations is prophecy yet fulfilled.

              Yeah well… they’re all stark raving bonkers then aren’t they and should be kept in secure gated communities far from the rest of the populace as possible. 👿

    • tricledrown 8.5

      Harriet the southlander extreme right wing racist ACT party supporter equal rights for all except which race do you favour over others.
      Harriett the Hypocrite hater!

    • adam 8.6

      Christian conservative, you mean a legalistic Christian. Who wouldn’t know the Sermon on the Mount, if they rolled down it. A legalistic Christian, who thinks the old testament has the same weight as the new. A legalistic Christian who thinks the gospels are optional. Conservative Christians, code for any old bat shit, as long as your wearing a cross around your neck.

      How about Harriet, you go back and read the gospels, drop the prejudice, like Jesus said, and then will talk.

      • Harriet 8.6.1

        I too rant and rave about all the fallen Christian people of this world. Yes they do need to go back to reading the Gospels.

        Keep up the good work.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 8.6.1.1

          Correction: Harriet rants and raves.

          Adam makes a clear and considered response that articulates some hard truths.

          As an atheist, I think you’re both claiming ownership of basic humanist values that date at least as far back as Lao Tzu. Well, when I say “claiming ownership”, Harriet only pays lip service.

        • adam 8.6.1.2

          My goodness look at your language Harriet. ‘Fallen’, that lets me know your church is close to being a cult. Going fruity theology there Harriet – Taken from the worshippers of Ahura Mazda. Please look at cult watch see if you church fits in to what is described as a cult.

          http://www.cultwatch.com/

          Matthew 19:21

          24 You cannot serve both God and Money.

          • NickS 8.6.1.2.1

            Heh, I think your post succeeded in driving her off, though given the information available I doubt anything but a major shock to the system will get Harriet to become a better person, rather than treating those who are “other” to her as less than human.

        • Roy 8.6.1.3

          But which one? The gospels contradict each other so much.

        • tricledrown 8.6.1.4

          Harriet I will start the good work what’s in your head is pure BS!
          What’s in your heart is pure evil!What ever happened to tho shalt not kill!
          Your an ACT supporter a Whyte racist supremacist !
          How does incest sit with you!
          Selfishness

    • The Al1en 8.7

      “Your definatly not fuc*ed in the head like us retarded Christian Conservatives.”

      Fixed it for you (not including the spelling mistakes).

    • unsol 8.8

      “Hamas using children to protect their missiles, and Israel using missiles to protect their children”

      You’re obviously just trying to stir the hornets nest, but you could still at least try & get your observation right; the left argue that there is simply no equivalence in terms of sheer destruction on the Israelis vs what they do to the Palestinians. How you missed that is beyond me….but then given you use text lingo & can’t spell “definately” correctly I guess I am not surprised.

      Well done on your capitalisation of the term Christian Conservatives though, it is important to get the name of your cult right!

  9. ianmac 9

    I’ve been waiting and waiting to hear a response from interviewers to Key’s, “The Left do it too.”
    When will a reporter ask “Can you give one example of this PM?” As Tom above says, “Show me the money Mr PM.”
    Of course the PM is not giving any more interviews to National Radio since Guyon did such a great job of holding him to account.
    The only example given so far is that Mike Williams went to Australia to check on the accuracy of Key’s employment timeline. Hardly counts.

    • For some reason, specific examples of the same nature are not thought to be needed.

      All that needs to be said is ‘if’ emails from a left-wing blogger or Labour Party person were exposed ‘then’ it would be the same. (Even Patrick Gower makes this claim, without evidence.)

      Despite the fact that one of the (invalid) criticisms of the claims in Hager’s book is that there is no evidence (only jumping to conclusions) that criticism doesn’t seem to apply to the claim that ‘they do it too’.

      Presumably the hope is that it is too tiring for people to point out – again and again and again – that the logic being applied is inconsistent.

    • You_Fool 9.2

      I am waiting for the better question, even if the left do it too, didn’t John Key promise us a higher standard of ethical politics? Surely being the same is not being better?

      • Hanswurst 9.2.1

        Why not put both questions, the one directly after the other? Then all that will be left for Key to say is, “At the end of the day, what we’re looking at is a left-wing conspiracy that New Zealanders will see for what it is.” Oh, wait…

  10. disturbed 10

    “Left wing bloggers not the same”

    National are using “McCarthyism” here, as we are not left wingers at all and why are we now restoring to blogging?

    Because Government ignored our community call for help, and below our NGO has been provoked to respond here as threats as “Left wing bloggers” emerges as National’s policy of “Dirty Politics” continues to emerge.

    We are not left and have never been “a left wing blogger” until six weeks ago, this is a deliberate smear against even non aligned like us, and wish to add our record leading up to, and then why we became one in the first place.

    This may be similar to why others have needed to get their voice out there finally as is clearly being displayed as strong feelings, on blog sites now.

    In the 1990’s.
    Our family has never been hard core left voters.

    We have resisted any communication on blog sites until recently beginning as last month.

    Our History as a family.

    We came back to NZ to live out our lives in the 1990’s after ten years away overseas.

    We simply were devoid of any political activities, and then spent many hours enjoying the beach life and reunions with our old friends from our life ten years prior to us leaving to work abroad and bring up our family elsewhere.

    But in 1998 we saw a change in Government coming as Jenny Shipley’s Government was unravelling, and another change was on the horizon as is happening now.

    During the last decade we have become concerned in community health and environmental declining issues such as more trucks in our communities causing pollution and degrading residential community health.

    Our main focus has always been to assist the restoration of rail as our prime freight task again rather than sole reliance on road based freight and this has been our virtual sole focus over the last decade.

    Due to our Community group founding charter as an NGO, we have maintained at a neutral distance from any political affiliation whatsoever despite many asking us for an affiliation.

    We are not nor ever could be affiliated with any Political party.

    But we began communicating by email during the periods of Helen Clark and John Key with three issues that were beginning as community issues.

    We joined others in the community as we began communicating by email with both Political parties on our core subjects of Transport, Community public health and the environment essentially three core subjects we were chartered to pursue.

    For the records we were tasked with retaining through the last 14 yrs.’ we have now a clear record of the positive and negative results of our pursuits with engaging both Labour from 1999-2008, and 2009 -2914. with National.

    Our NGO emailed 54 emails to the collective group of Key National Ministers representing Prime Minister, and Transport, Environment, Health, and Tourism and local M.P. responses.

    The picture is very sad and revelling;

    Our community during the last six years have had very little response to over 54 collective separate emails sent to each Minister including the P.M. from our non politically aligned NGO.

    Under National.
    No Minister has accepted to meet with us.
    No Minister has responded to work with our community NGO.
    No Minister has offered assistance for our community issues.
    Three email responses only total from 54 emails.

    Although our NGO emailed that collective group of Key National Ministers representing in Transport, Environment, Health, Finance, and local M.P.s.

    Only on one occasion did our local National M.P. (after several attempts) allow us to meet and chat with one Minister during an opening of a facility in our region, not an official binding meeting to show evidence and work with this Minister.

    Labour equivalent M.P.s’ during the previous 9 yrs.’ received 23 emails from our NGO in total and here are the records of response.

    Under Labour.
    Six meetings were arranged with three Transport Ministers.
    Two meetings were arranged with Minister of Environment.
    Four meetings with Minister of Finance.
    31 Emails were received from 23 emails sent separately to all ministers by our NGO from eight Ministers.
    Of those 31 emails received, many were offering assistance.

    If National offers only silence and this lack of support and communication with our community NGO’s, while Labour did display community support the average voter should have an easy choice who to support.

    This email (blog) should say it all without prejudice.

    • karol 10.1

      disturbed, I can’t make sense of what your comment is about. Is it a quote from somewhere? if so, can you state what part of your comment is a quote, and what is the source?

    • millsy 10.2

      …what Karol said….

  11. disturbed 11

    Hi Karol, “I can’t make sense of what your comment is about. Is it a quote from somewhere? if so, can you state what part of your comment is a quote, and what is the source?”

    Bunji said “John Key was busy casting all sorts of aspersions”,

    Our response is simply aspersions – a provocation from National/Key that all who blog here are conducting a left wing dirt campaign.

    We are clarifying our position as members of an NGO (Non Governmental Organisation ). we are not a left wing organisation or individual.

    See it clearly Karol, some don’t lie to be placed by key in a certain category, I this case “left wing” which we are not.

    We happen to be agreeing with all that the left wing are saying now, but this does not makes us left wing.

    Key is desperate and resorting to a simple McCarthy revival and believe it as we heard on several MSM the suggestion that National is trying to turn this around as this.

    We have gone very far trying to get consultation with This administration and we could not so we have to let the electorate and other similar affected bloggers that may also have been affected by this wall of silence you now see from Mr Key, as in the National Party it is endemic, as are my aspersions.

    After reading our NGO experiences how can anyone ever believe the National slogan “National working for you”?

    • karol 11.1

      Who is “we”? Again, are you quoting from somewhere? What NGO organisation are this “we” from?

      You’re still not being clear, disturbed.

      • adam 11.1.1

        No offence disturbed, but context is the missing part. You know it well I assume, me I’m confused.

  12. disturbed 12

    Karol,

    We rather want to remain anonymous in the current climate as our members reserve the right to be kept confidential.

    We don’t want a hate campaign here as others don’t.

    Remember Rob Gilchrist?

    You need to take the context as is that we are a non aligned community organisation that has issues with the current Government o/k that would rather remain independent from being tagged as either left or right as many others do

    As for we do you want our names placed on the site? answer no. .

    Hope it helps clarify.

    • Rich 12.1

      I don’t think there is a right and left anymore just those who cling to the little democracy that we have left and those who are trying to destroy it.

      • Tracey 12.1.1

        Nicely put.

        • disturbed 12.1.1.1

          Thank you, Tracy & Rich.

          Democracy is all about our freedom and some do not wish to be completely open about affiliations.

          For my family we are genuinely for Egalitarianism, and we surely can’t be labelled as Left as I born during the last world war and grew up with Labour’s values of an egalitarian society we obviously are closer to Labour than National with this value we cherish.

          Of course you will see National commanding that their supporters were boldly supporting anything they do.

          This was vividly shown after we heard the Media was warned ahead of the election to watch their P’s and Q’s, by someone in Government, so we see how they are not free merchants and we are.

          The price of Freedom is constant vigilance.

  13. Sable 13

    All its seems Key and co have left if to go on the offensive and attack anyone in sight. Its a damning indictment on their behavior and in no way reflects on left wing bloggers or anyone. They have made their bed now they must lie in it….

  14. RRM 14

    LOL – yes, it’s “just different” when the left does it.

    This is why you fail in the polls.

    Your lordships.

    • framu 14.1

      well RRM your actually right

      the left doesnt actually have a fully integrated attack machine run out of the leaders office whos sole purpose is to attack, defame and destroy anyone who happens to cross it path

      the nats do however

      thats the damn difference – of course every party gives little tidbits to blogs and journos – but that not what the nats, slater and dpf have been up to – but do please try and argue otherwise

  15. Bob 15

    “or tell us about doing dodgy OIAs of hastily declassified documents”
    Source for where this has happened on th ‘Right’? According to Cameron Slater he was pressured not to request the OIA http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/two-biggest-lies-hagers-book/ so citation on this claim please.

    “We’ve not been involved in any sort of intimidation to drive ordinary people from politics.”
    What about H-fee? http://thestandard.org.nz/the-road-to-lonsdale-street-part-1/ http://thestandard.org.nz/the-h-fee-explained/

    “We look forward to Key engaging properly on asset sales” these were already widely known prior to the last election, in fact Labour focussed strongly on this topic and still lost

    “and tax cuts for the rich” Yip, those rich picks earning $14,001! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3446307/Tax-cuts-what-you-ll-get

    “and bigger class sizes” Citation? Pretty sure the class sizes are getting smaller under National, there has been a 3% increase in teacher numbers since 2008 and a 0.3% increase in student numbers. By the looks of things we need better quality teachers if that is how you have learnt to read statistics!
    Teacher Numbers: http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/statistics/schooling/teaching_staff
    Student Numbers: http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/statistics/schooling/july_school_roll_returns/6028

    “and where their climate change policies are sending us” Which is no better or worse off than where the last Labour government were sending us.

    • Tracey 15.1

      who on the left tried to intimidate whom out of politics?

      Your post is a little confusing.

      Have you read a book called dirty politics by nicky hager?

    • ghostwhowalksnz 15.2

      I dont know whether you are using arithmetic but the total staff count is down from 2010 to 2012, this is when Nationals cuts have taken effect.
      52563 down 52238.

    • framu 15.3

      “According to Cameron Slater”

      well done bob – why do you expect anyone, anywhere to not laugh at that

      pretty sure theres a book out where theres email evidence that shows cammy up for a stinking little fibber who cant be trusted

  16. MizzLeviathan 16

    Dear Judy and John, I’m glad you think the left wing are so underhand.

    I love the double bind you place in peoples minds “its not ok, but its ok to be dirty”, I become a stunned snapper in no time, and vote for you.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    You have given me material for my Brothers Grim styled book for Children, its called Judy and Johns Juicy Bits.

    Basically the premise of the story is this (I’ll be reading it to my 5 year old):
    •Control the media
    •Its okay to been an arsehole, just don’t get caught.
    •Control the media
    •Don’t believe the shit they teach you at school like: you should treat everyone with respect
    •Remember nice people are dumb and/or compliant (i.e. you don’t want them stealing your stuff while you under pay them).
    •Control the media
    •Lie
    •Control the media

    There will be a study guide attached with following additions and questions (to ensure the children see how the real world is – remember Plato said the best education for the young mind was the battle field):

    STUDY GUIDE: Children Some Questions you may want to ask John:

    1.Note how none of the MSM or ‘Business’ web sites are not asking John to resign over this Dirty Politics Book (only Judith is mentioned). Contrast this with when David Cunliffe was asked if he would resign over the Lui problem ! Do the search yourself online (just use the msm for reference). How many will you find kids?

    Maybe these would be good questions to ask John and Judy:

    •John, if your party and business associates are so successful in life (i.e. limitless money, power and contacts), why on earth does your party and business associates need to stoup so low?

    •If it is ok to use dirty politics, then, are you saying to the nation’s people, lets get down and dirty and do the fandango?

    •John, are you saying to the people, one rule for us, another for the plebs?

    •John, are you saying this is the face of legitimate Government? I am so confused, pwezzz help, according to Hobbes Leviathan, without legitimate government life would be:

    “In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”

    John, do you want me to become an anarchist or is that Anti Christ? I don’t know the difference, or should I just be a nice “good citizen’ isn’t that what the SIS call them?

    • Tracey 16.1

      good point. John Armstrong!? No headline calling for Collins and/or Key to resign.

      I look forward to fransxnext piece

  17. damien grant 17

    What is the difference, precisely, between taking plain ‘umbrage’ and ‘personal umbrage’? Isn’t the word personal redundant?

      • McFlock 17.1.1

        but Damien just made an awesome contribution – insightful, constructive, cuts to the heart of the issue, and illuminates all the characters involved in a profound way. In his own mind, anyway.

        ’tis a great mind whose solitary contribution to the conversation about the revelations within (and responses to) Dirty Politics is to match inconsequential redundancy with mere pedantry.

    • Minarch 17.2

      no the words

      “libertarian” & “objectivist” are redundant

      in fact both those 2 philosophic schools are redundant much like their practitioners

      I personally find it hilarious that it allways seems to be the least robust and least likely individuals to survive in a libertarian environment that are its strongest proponents..

      with Damian being the obvious example, In a libertarian society he would be chewed up and spat out by the Alphas like the weakling he appears to be…

      • One Anonymous Bloke 17.2.1

        Libertarian emotional fragility.
        Pause for a moment to pity,
        Then get back on the task,
        Of kicking their ass,
        For their gross intellectual poverty.

      • damien grant 17.2.2

        Not all libertarians are objectivists; but let’s not get bogged down with pedantry.

        If, indeed, I would be the victim of the Alphas in a libertarian society, does not that add a degree of integrity to my advocacy of a libertarian society?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 17.3

      Damien, the word is ratfucking. You’re putting your name to it. Wake up.

  18. disturbed 18

    Nixon & Watergate on at 8.30 tonight on History channel

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