Legalise it! The Socialist case for Cannabis reform

18 comments on “Legalise it! The Socialist case for Cannabis reform ”

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1. Chris 1

   15 October 2020 at 1:16 pm

   Every culture in the world uses mind-altering substances. It's what humans do.
2. Matthew Whitehead 2

   15 October 2020 at 1:18 pm

   Kia ora Maria- just advance voted yesterday, and this referendum is the one I gave the nod to.
3. Byd0nz 3

   15 October 2020 at 1:36 pm

   Should should, regardless, as a weed-smokin on a daily basis since 1965 left of Marxist, I wont be quitin' anytime soon.
4. Draco T Bastard 4

   15 October 2020 at 1:44 pm

   Because we need to ensure any financial benefits of legalising cannabis go towards building and improving our communities, and not into corporate coffers.

   Then we need to ensure that private business is not involved in the production and distribution of marijuana.

   I'm supportive of it but don't think that will go down too well in the wider community.
   • Chris 4.1

     15 October 2020 at 2:33 pm

     I heard a guy at the pub say "I'm not voting for anything that turns hardened criminals into upstanding pillars of the community".
     • Matthew Whitehead 4.1.1

       15 October 2020 at 2:54 pm

       So close to getting it, lol.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

       15 October 2020 at 3:12 pm

       Present law already turns hardened criminals into upstanding pillars of the community. But tax dodging by the rich through legal means doesn't seem to upset most people.
5. bruce 5

   15 October 2020 at 3:33 pm

   I've been told by a few of the law enforcement types that its only because the police "can't get them for something else" that people are prosecuted for cannabis. Yea rite its not a good look when it says arrested for being brown on the charge sheet.
6. ken 6

   15 October 2020 at 3:43 pm

   Any health issue is merely a red herring.

   This is really all about repression and persecution.
7. PaddyOT 7

   15 October 2020 at 5:07 pm

   " Because we need to ensure any financial benefits of legalising cannabis go towards building and improving our communities, and not into corporate coffers." Good ideology but what's the preference or plans ?

   Went to school with this guy. Lord has positioned himself for years to play the market in NZ and he pays big beneficial taxes. Stopping corporate ownership seems a backwards step as it defeats a main purpose of legalising cannibis for the huge employment and tax take benefits.

   https://www.smh.com.au/world/how-john-lord-went-from-nz-farmer-to-the-biggest-cannabis-dealer-in-colorado-20160105-glzegp.html

   " It’s crucial that a) taxes from cannabis sales be poured back into rehabilitation and addressing social inequalities…."

   A commonly held understanding whereby the admittance of harm has been the reason for No votes, it is self- defeating to admit for a reform Bill.

   That the reform for legalisation of cannabis is expedited to the public before resourcing the dire shortage of varied 'help' services, addressing issues that underpin drug use, is poor strategy. " rehab second (or never)” Where's the plans ?

   Having written in law a limit on age and THC potency is not a deterrent. Who's running around sample testing homegrown potentcy ? Laughable and unenforceable.

   The 'alcohol is more harmful' excuse to validate legalising cannibis shouldn't be the distractor used in argument, it merely vindicates falsely that cannibis is harmless. Running across the road in front of a car is less harmful than running in front of a truck.

   When cannabis is no longer your soft drugs, ' flower power' era scenario , the Netherlands becomes a relevant longer term case study of the impacts over it's decades of development. Cannibis was not legalized in the Netherlands, decriminalizing instead as they decided to stop prosecuting cannibis users and make legislation that they thought would reduce the harm of cannabis.

   Now, " It was not unusual for children as young as 12 to be addicted to cannabis and referred to drugs clinics by their GPs, said Dr Ashruf.
   In years gone by, the age group for referrals was between 16 and 21 but now it has gone down to between 14 and 19," he said. "Children of 12 and 13 who are addicted to soft drugs are also brought in. It is an alarming development." Dr Ashruf, director of the Parnassia Clinic in The Hague, said that Dutch parents are largely unaware of the dangers because of the changes the drug has undergone since the 1960s."

   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-children-of-12-addicted-to-cannabis-6106025.html

   In law provisions, keeping the cannibis scene tightly regulated, quality ensured and out of 'gang' type control has not eventuated in the Netherlands.

   " Despite the government’s efforts, a substantial part of the Dutch cannabis trade is still controlled by criminal drug dealers. And, sometimes, the laws themselves make this situation possible."

   For the sellers, profit drive circumnavigates the law and overrides the safety of users. An 'honest' seller ," has to examine the cannabis he buys under a microscope to make sure that it’s not dangerous for his customers." Meanwhile, " Sometimes, coffeeshop owners or managers have to rely on the illegal cannabis trade to stock their shelves with fresh produce and keep their customers happy."

   This is predominantly because, "The complicated legal situation of cannabis has led to the growth of organised crime in the Netherlands. In a 2018 report, the Dutch national police union warned that organised crime has taken over the cannabis trade in many parts of the country. The report also mentioned that a parallel economy is emerging, fueled by the illegal drug trade."

   https://straininsider.com/legal-situation-cannabis-netherlands/

   Even the most considered laws to make the people happy are subject to undesired consequences, an absurd 30 plus years of policy, " ..there’s one contradiction that goes to the heart of why Dutch drugs policy has lost its way, it’s this: that while it’s legal for “coffee shops” to sell cannabis for personal consumption, growing the cannabis they sell is illegal and subject to stiff penalties that have forced production underground." Profit is profit afterall, the biggest open secret in the Netherlands.

   " At the moment, drugs are regulated, but by a mafia".

   “It was crazy then and it’s still crazy now,” one former police officer says. “The cannabis comes to the back door of the coffee shops, where it’s bought illegally, with no tax. Then it’s sold legally at the front of the shop. That’s no solution to anything. It’s simply creating a new problem.”

   https://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation/high-time-netherlands-moves-to-clean-up-absurd-cannabis-policy-1.4160217?mode=amp

   Still – " We’ve been brought up in a society that believes cannabis is not something criminal. So everyone says, ‘It’s only cannabis’. But the fact is that cannabis trafficking is involved in almost all major criminal investigations involving murder, weapons and drugs.”
   • gsays 7.1

     15 October 2020 at 6:28 pm

     Well put arguments Paddy.

     I disagree with you, I don't think the corporate approach is the way to maximise returns to the community, either directly or through the taxation route.

     I watched a Netflix look at cannabis business in California. The amount of the cost of compliance kept a lot of small players out of the action. A rule of three was talked about, how, when a market is created, there ends up being three players.

     "But the fact is that cannabis trafficking is involved in almost all major criminal investigations involving murder, weapons and drugs.”

     That has more to do with the current status of cannabis in law as opposed to the substance itself.
   • PaddyOT 7.2

     15 October 2020 at 7:53 pm

     "That has more to do with the current status of cannabis in law as opposed to the substance itself."

     That's why I asked what's the preference for ' the market' scenario . Isn't the proposed law really then about tax take from big suppliers rather than wellbeing or coincidental concern for injustice of convictions ?

     What you said is true gsays but the quote came from the actual state of play existing in the crime scene in the Netherlands where it IS a 'legal' substance. The development of a taxable, big player market with overheads also created products being unaffordable to many households, much like the exorbitant cost of alcohol.

     One example of current legal markets-
     http://www.priceofweed.com/prices/Netherlands.html

     Gabby's point is valid too, however consumer demand for "cheaper and better" ( cost, variety and hit pleasure ) " , IS what drove the growth of the illicit 'mafia' market. There's an horrific murder trial involving what would be deemed small time use coming up in the NZ courts. It illustrates that criminal acts occur whether the drugs are legal or not. Another recent example, was the fatal beating of a nice young guy for not fronting with a few pathetic dollars for his tick up. This will still happen, the new variety, high potency or crystalised weed will still be out of the shop activity and complete rubbish to say otherwise.

     If the aim is truly pragmatic to stop criminilising persons , or if NZ doesn't want big corporate takeover playing the tax evasion game, nor wants lower income households having money extracted to pay the market overheads and profits (adding to the cost for a buyer) , then get rid of the ridiculous 4 plants per household and make it more sensible for continuous personal supply. Notable is that the Netherlands prohibited personal home growing. Laughable though is that government thinks we'll stick to four plants. This puny amount also drives up what will be illicit supply and competition in the neighbourhood when users run out and the shop product is too expensive.
     
8. Gabby 8

   15 October 2020 at 5:29 pm

   The regulated stuff will need to be cheaper and better than the illegal stuff.
   • Naki man 8.1

     15 October 2020 at 9:46 pm

     There is no tax paid on the illegal stuff so it will be cheaper
     • PaddyOT 8.1.1

       15 October 2020 at 10:36 pm

       True Naki man and wee Peter the Pot Pro down the road with his plants is still going to grow his special hybrid and make his main income, whether legal or not.

       Because other countries data largely shows that legalising weed does not increase a whole populations uptake, home gardening for those who wish to imbibe cheaper beats the big player capitilism and 'gang' dominance.
     • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2

       15 October 2020 at 11:07 pm

       The illegal stuff is higher priced due to the risk associated with it.
       • PaddyOT 8.1.2.1

         15 October 2020 at 11:48 pm

         Depends who you know DTB
9. AUSTRINGER 9

   16 October 2020 at 8:39 pm

   Time they really gone back to when Hemp smokin arrived to Kiwi land. All the offshore investors made bulk Squillion!s, out of all those working who, not all, yet a large amount of workers smoked outside their workplace Hemp, Decades, of profits, and not a drug test in sight.
   All those monster profits and not a drug test inside a working employed place.

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